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Woops! Cohen's Old Lawyer Blows Up Hush Money Trial | 5.16.24 - The Grace Curley Show Hour 1
Today's podcast is brought to you by Howie's new book Paperboy. To order today, go to HowieCarShow.com and click on store. Live from the Aviva Trattoria studio, it's The Grace Curly Show. We gotta bring in a new voice, a young voice, a rising voice, Grace Curly. You can read Grace's work in the Boston Herald and the spectator. Especially Grace, Grace Standup. Here's the millennial with the mic, Grace Curly. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to The Grace Curly Show, another rainy day here in New England. Happy Thursday, or as we like to call it, Friday, Jr. We have a great, great show ready for you all today. We're actually going to be shifting some things around just a little bit. A Wilker joke, which is brought to you by Aviva Trattoria, is going to be at 105 today, so it's a little... Not a joke. So get ready, you have it at the ready on your phone to call in. We're moving it so that we can bring on Turtle Boy, Aiden Carney, at 130, because Colin Albert is on the stand now for the second day in the Caron Read Trial. And my takeaway, amateur takeaway thus far, not going well for him. I don't think he's a great witness. For people who aren't following the case that closely, Colin Albert has frequently been floated as a potential third party culprit. He's a bit of a hothead. Definitely a hard-o. But that's a takeaway from all of these people in Cannes. All of these people in the McAlberts, as Turtle Boy calls them, in this group. A lot of hard-os. A lot of the poses, Jared, and all the photos, they have their fists out. They're ready. I've never seen people posing like that in photos. I've seen people put arms around each other's shoulders, cast smile, thumbs up. You see them as late fighters do that? You see, yeah, Dana White. It looks like they're all Dana White's. And I've even seen that. I was guilty. When I was in college, I remember I had this roommate and she said to me, "I don't know if you're aware that you're doing this, but you're doing a thumbs up in all the photos when we go out. And you need to stop. It's out of control." And I started looking at photos and I realized that I said, "I do." And I wasn't just doing one thumbs up. I was doing a double thumbs up. And it was really painful. And I worked on it and I stopped. But I never found myself either giving the finger, which I know some people do like to do that. It's a little low rent, in my opinion. But then I also see the fist. And the fist is just screams hard out. And so they have Colin Alpert on the stand. And he had beef previously with John O'Keefe. There was a little bad blood between them. And he was at the house at some point that night, which is part of the text message back and forth trying to figure out when he was there. So the prosecution, it seems like they are in way over their heads. They are trying to clear Colin Alpert's name, or at least make it seem like he isn't the fist fighting threatening type. Which unfortunately, for the prosecution, he's documented this quite a bit in his life. He wasn't shy when it came to Snapchat videos and putting this all on camera. That's always something I find when people who like to fight. Some men just like to fight. And a lot of them also like to record them. "I'll make my day, pal." Yeah. "Day arriving, there was Joe Biden saying he wants to take Trump behind his shed." They also want you to make sure that you get them on film talking about how much they like to fight. So that is contradicting this narrative from the prosecution that no, no, no, he's just a young guy. He doesn't try to fight anyone. He's never, he said he's never fought anyone but his brothers. And again, that would be an easier case if he wasn't on camera threatening to bleep people up. Now, you would think, and I keep saying this, but I talked to an attorney this morning who said the exact same thing. So I do feel like it's worth repeating, that you would think if you were an alien that was just watching this trial and came down from Jupiter, you would think that the McAlbert clan was on trial. You would think that this was a case against them and they were trying to prove that they're not guilty. And the prosecution is not making any case against Karen Reid here, which is obviously hard, Jared, because there's no witnesses to her running over John O'Keefe, which is what they're claiming. But even so, they're spending so much time, it seems, trying to play defense against these alternative theories about what could have happened and really trying to fight off. And when I say conspiracy theories, I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I don't mean that in the idea that they're not possible. But I just mean that there's been so much talk outside this courtroom online, you know, turtle boy. This thing is taking on a life of its own and it seems like the prosecution is more focused on dispelling those theories than actually creating one of their own. In other words, the prosecution shouldn't be doing this, but they're playing defense. They're not playing offense. They're just sitting there trying to kind of swat away the possibility that any of the people involved in this, that it could be some sort of giant cover-up. And so we're going to talk to turtle boy about that. We've got a lot of questions for him and I want to talk about the knuckles, the photo of the knuckles. It's a real court case, you know, it's a real murder trial. They're bringing out photos of this kid when he's at a bar and he's got bloody knuckles and he's saying he just slipped on the driveway and he used his knuckles to break his fall. And I mean, it's a very, very intriguing trial. I even this trial on even its most boring day is more exciting than a lot of other trials. Now, we will get to that, but I actually want to open today by focusing on Michael Cohen and his testimony. So he's on the stand again today in New York City in this hush money trial. The serial liar, the serial purger is back on the witness stand. And however much of a disaster legal experts thought he was going to be when they first got win, that he was the star witness, he's worse. They should teach classes about this in law school. The class could be like the importance of reliable witnesses, or how about this for a class. Why you don't put desperate, thirsty, bitter, tick talking convicted felons on the stand 101. It wouldn't be a long class, you know, because you could sum it up in like five minutes. You could just play a little bit of, you know, Michael Cohen on tick talk and that would make sense to most law students, I would think. But it's insane that this man, that it's all hinging on him, that they're, they're pinning all their hopes and dreams on Michael Cohen. Now, yesterday, there was a big update on this entire thing. There was a house judiciary committee hearing, and Michael Cohen's former attorney, Rob Costello, testified that Michael Cohen in the 2018 debriefing with federal prosecutors that he essentially claimed and said debriefing that Trump knew nothing about these hush money payments. That he was the only one. He did it. It was all him. Trump knew, Trump was Sergeant Schultz in this whole thing. He knew nothing. He knew nothing. And it contradicts everything Cohen is saying now. It contradicts everything that Alvin Bragg's case, which is already, you know, held together with duct tape, it contradicts everything that's being laid out today. And I know what you're thinking. Okay. Michael Cohen caught lying. It's kind of a standing headline. We've gotten used to that. But Michael Cohen, according to Costello, Michael Cohen, at least in 2018, claimed that he thought the Stormy Daniels allegations would embarrass Trump. And he was worried about Trump, and he was worried about Melania, and he was worried about their families so much so that he took care. He decided to take care of the payment himself. What a lawyer. That's the kind of lawyer you want on your side. A lawyer and a friend. A lawyer and a friend. And soon to be unbeknownst to Michael Cohen, a TikToker. TikToker was in his future as well. What can't he do? But yeah, so Michael Cohen says it's going to be too embarrassing for Melania. It's going to be too embarrassing for Trump. Now, keep in mind what Alvin Bragg and all these men's members are trying to convince the jury is that Trump had the election on his brain. Like Trump's motivations on these hush money payments had nothing to do with protecting his family because he is orange man bad. He, he does not give a flying, you know what about his family. He doesn't care about his wife. He only cares about politics. That was the only thing. And how do they know that? They can read his mind. They're mind readers. Michael Cohen got a sense of that. But now Michael Cohen, well then Michael Cohen 2018 was saying the opposite. He's saying no, it actually was not only is what I'm saying, what he's saying today not true. But he cared so much about Trump's family that he was the one who made the hush money payments on his own. And Costello asked him like how do you pay for it? He took out a loan against his property to pay for it. It's so weird. You know how sometimes people get divorced and you think to yourself, it's such a strange concept because you think to yourself at one point you loved each other so much, so much that you wanted to spend. Your entire lives together. And now you hate each other so much that you need to legally put it in writing that like you are not, it's done. It's done. It's just strange here because when you see people have been divorced, it's like, I always think that when they talk about their access, when they talk about their ex-wife, I always think of, wow, but at one point, you loved this person more than any other person. You guys chose each other. And when I hear about Michael Cohen feeling so passionately that he needed to save Melania and save Trump from this embarrassment, that he took out a loan on his property to pay hush money to a porn star for the off chance that she might embarrass Donald Trump. I'm looking at him now and I'm going, and now you hate him so much. How did we get here? This is like hearing about the good old days. This is when you two loved each other, man. What an arc this relationship has had. He's gone from taking out loans to pay for this, to now making TikToks where he just, the hatred for Trump just oozes out of him and Costello testifies that Cohen felt betrayed to a degree that he wasn't brought to DC. So he did all of this hush money stuff as kind of a way to get back in Trump's good graces. He was desperate for Trump to like him, to really like him. So it's insane, but it's also the opposite of what he's saying now, Michael Cohen. And there's no reason to believe any of his version of events at this point, you know, like each one seems more outlandish than the other. So I don't know how a jury convicts Donald Trump based off the testimony of a guy who can't tell the truth about what he had for breakfast. I wouldn't believe Michael Cohen Jared. If I said, Hey, if I was in New York, I said, Hey, where's the closest CBS and he goes, Oh, I don't know if I'd believe him. I would really, I'd take out my phone and be like, I don't know why I said that guy. He's definitely sent me on a wild goose chase. He's he's not said I mean to CBS, you know what he was he was lying. He's a liar. And if you and one of my, one of my favorite, one of my inspirations, one of my mentors, Nancy Pelosi once said, false and uno, false and on the best. And that is the truth. So I don't know why they would believe him. And I love and here's the funniest part. Okay. Dan Goldman is talking to Costello yesterday and Dan Goldman thinks that Costello, who has a pretty good track record, by the way, he's not like a nut. He seems like a pretty legit attorney. He doesn't seem like he's on TikTok, for example, stabbing a voodoo doll of Donald Trump. He seems like a semi normal human being, but Cohen thinks that Costello is trying to impeach Cohen's credibility. What credibility? How do you impeach someone's credibility if they have no credibility? And Susie Moore from Red State, she laid out like three potential examples of how this works. One, Costello is lying. He's lying under oath, now multiple times. And he's just straight up lying. Two, he's telling the truth about his interactions with Cohen in 2018, but Cohen was lying then. Or three, he's telling the truth, but Cohen is lying now. But either way, there's so much in this that goes to show you that this is a circus show trial, that this should have never been brought to court. And it's too late now, obviously. But there's a reason, and we talked to Jake Novak about this, why no one would touch this until Alvin Bragg had the courage to pick it up. And it's because it is a joke. It is a joke. Michael Cohen is a joke. Stormy Daniels is a joke. I mean, they might as well bring on Stormy Daniels husband, Barrett Blade. He could be, he could actually be someone we might be able to trust. They bring on liar after liar of these people who have had every story they've told, they've changed their platoon on. Every story, every testimony, everything they've said, there's like six other versions of it. So it just depends which version you're going to go with today. But Michael Cohen's on the stand. I think it's not going well for him. We'll play some of this sound from Costello because, again, I think he's a strong character here as far as someone who is laying out, why Michael Cohen should not be believed. Not that we really needed another person telling us that, but it can't hurt Trump. It can't hurt his case. We'll be right back with more 844 542 42. Don't go anywhere. You're listening to The Grace Curly Show. This is The Grace Curly Show. Another headline for you today, Biden asserts executive privilege over recordings from classified documents, Probe. This is the Robert Herb Probe where they talked about the Corvette and they really, they talked about a lot of things. They talked about the room, room sounds. He made the room, room sound. He made, I think he made Robert her a little uncomfortable. Robert Herb kind of felt like, listen, this guy's so old. He's so feeble. He's so weak. We can't put him on trial. We can't, he can't stand up. So, we will give him a pass and a lot of people. And something that's noteworthy about the transcripts was that Joe Biden came out around that day when Joe Biden came out. It was after, it was the same day all this was released. Robert Herb announces his findings. And the White House tells us, oh, he's going to come out. I think it was like eight o'clock at night. And for two hours, a lot of people were thinking, maybe he's going to resign. He can't fight this anymore. He's going to come out there. He's going to say, yeah, you know, he's right. I've lost it a little bit. I got to step down. That didn't happen. He came out swinging. He was yelling at the reporters. He was telling, that's what you think. I'm just as good as I've ever been, whatever, whatever. And the reason I bring that up is because he opened in that defensive, combative, antagonistic back and forth with the press. He opened by being so appalled that Robert Herr would suggest that he didn't remember his son, Bow Biden's death or when he, the date when he died. And when the transcript came out, it was revealed that in fact, Robert Herr did not bring up Bow Biden, that Joe Biden brought up his son, which a lot of us expected. We were like, he's the one who constantly, it doesn't matter what event he's at, it doesn't matter what grieving parent he's with, he always brings up his son, Bow Biden. And Jen Psaki in her recent book actually said that she had to tell him, like, you have to stop doing that. People do not, people don't find that sensitive or, you know, relatable. They're offended by something to that effect. And so that was what we found out via the transcripts. So naturally, there's been a FOIA request for media outlets from, you know, the GOP wanting to hear the actual recordings. But Biden is going to assert executive privilege so that we don't get those. And I haven't played this game in a long time, Jared. I do think we can do this right now. Can you imagine if it were Donald Trump? Hashtag release the tapes would be all over Twitter. It would be all over Instagram. It would be all over CNN. It would be release these tapes. Democracy is hanging in the balance. What are they hiding? We need to hear the audio tapes. I mean, how many, how many hearing trials did Trump have for trying to exert executive privilege that he had, like? Yeah. And it says White House counsel Ed Siskle also wrote to Jordan and calmer Thursday that House Republicans would chop up the recordings for partisan political purposes. And that's only something that Democrats are allowed to do. You guys aren't allowed to chop up things and show them on TV, like a big circus kangaroo court, Allah, January 6. That stuff is only reserved for our side. Yeah, they added crowd noise to that hearing jacket. So yeah, we're never going to get the audio tapes, but you don't even need them. Just read the transcript and you'll be able to piece it together for yourself. It's very, it's very believable. You can almost hear it when you read it. We'll be right back. We got a lot more to get to. This is. Live from the Aviva Thratria studio. Welcome back to the Grace Curly Show. The number if you want to join us is 844-542-42. Another reminder we will be doing Wilker Joke at 105 today. And we will have Turtle Boy on at 130 to talk all things. Karen Reed, Colin Albert, the latest in this crazy murder case. Today's poll question in the meantime is brought to you by Perfect Smiles. Don't be fooled by imposters with similar names. If you're unhappy with your smile, you need to visit Dr. Bruce Houghton in Nashua. He's the best at what he does. He's also just a super, super sweet guy. And I think you would really like him. You can trust him with your smile. So call 1-844 a perfect smile or visit PerfectSmiles.com. Jared, what is the poll question and what are the results thus far? Today's poll question, which you can vote in at GraceCurlyShow.com, is, is it a good look for GOP lawmakers to be a Trump's trial? Yes, they need to support the nominee or no, it's a little thirsty. So I had a friend of mine who's very into politics, text me this the other day, and he said he thinks it looks ridiculous that all of these guys, you know, J.D. Vance, Senator from Ohio, you've got Doug Burgum, the Governor of North Dakota, yeah, Vivek Ramaswami, who was running for president just a few months ago. They're all standing behind him and watching him give his, his little statements to the, to the media. And I did think yesterday was the most ridiculous it looked only because they were all wearing red ties. And I think you have to coordinate. Like you're all going to show up, you can't look like you're in a uniform, because then you do look a little thirsty and a little pathetic. But in general, I think the reason that they're there is because that way, not only is the press getting Donald Trump's take on this circus, but then they're also getting sound from J.D. Vance. They're getting sound from Vivek Ramaswami. They're getting sound from a lot of guys who know how to handle the media, who know how to give great sound bites. And so I think it's a smart move by Trump to have these guys out there explaining his argument and having his back and kind of breaking down for the American people why this is so insane, why this is a miscarriage of justice and should not be happening. And yeah, so I don't think it's a bad look. I obviously a lot of them are vying for the VP spot. So it does make it look a little. But I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no. I think it actually makes us look as the GOP makes us look united, which I'm never going to be against. I would be such a hypocrite if for all of the years I spent, you know, banging the desk about how we need to stick together. If I didn't acknowledge that it looks like we're sticking together. We've got a lot of strong GOP minds and they're backing Donald Trump and they're showing up to this trial. I don't think that's a bad thing. Murray and the Divine had a piece today that this is the newest version of the apprentice and I did find that to be an amusing concept. But no, I think it looks I think it's fine. I think it's good. It's unity. 90% of the audience says yes, they need to support the nominee. Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. I'm not going to complain about members of the GOP having Trump's back. I think I would be a massive hypocrite if I did that. All right. So let's get to Rob Costello. Rob Costello is Michael Cohen's former attorney. And he was once the deputy chief of the Manhattan U.S. Attorney's Office, their criminal division. So very prestigious, you know, big, big job. And you can have issues with Robert Costello. You can think he's a liar. You can think he's trying to save Trump's ass. But I would throw out this. If given the option of Michael Cohen, Michael Avenatti or Robert Costello to represent you as a lawyer, who would you choose out of those three? I think 99% of the American people would go with this guy Costello. So he doesn't have to be a perfect witness to be way better than the witness that they're relying on, which is Michael Cohen. So I wanted to play some of this sound. Okay. This is Robert Costello, former Cohen attorney, talking about essentially contradicting everything that Cohen is saying. And everything that Alvin Bragg is relying on in order to get a guilty conviction from this jury for Donald Trump. Let's take cut to first. This is Robert Costello explaining how Michael Cohen felt about the Stormy Daniels allegations against Trump cut to. I specifically asked him because he kept on going back saying, "I can't believe they're trying to put me in jail for these NDAs." So I said, "Michael, tell me about the NDA. Tell me about Stormy Daniels. What did you do?" He said, "I got a call from a lawyer representing Stormy Daniels who represented that she was going to testify that Donald Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels." Michael Cohen said, "I didn't believe the allegation, but I knew that such an allegation would be terribly embarrassing." He said, "It would be embarrassing." He focused on Melania Trump. He said, "I didn't want to embarrass Melania Trump." He said, "That's why I decided to take care of this on my own." He went back to that several times. You did this on your own on my own. Crazy if true. I'm all for being a good friend/good lawyer, but that is crazy if true. But I also think Michael Cohen's crazy. And could this be a lie? Yeah, but if I had to guess who was lying about it, I would say he said this to Michael, I'm sorry, Michael Cohen said this to Robert Costello. He could have been lying about it at the time, but I have no doubt that he came up with this fantastical explanation as to how this whole thing went down. I think he's just, we all know people like this. There was always kids like this in school, Jared. It didn't matter if they got caught dead to right doing something wrong. They were always going to have a new excuse. They were always going to have a new lie ready to go. And it just spilled out of them very naturally. It was second nature. They were constantly lying. That is Michael Cohen. Now, the next cut, he follows up on this. Robert Costello follows up on this idea that Michael Cohen felt so moved. By Stormy Daniels allegations, and he felt he felt so defensive of Donald Trump and specifically Melania Trump in her not being hurt by these salacious allegations, which keep in mind. Again, Robert Costello says Michael Cohen claimed he did not believe them, but he was so worried and fearful that Melania Trump would be embarrassed that he paid the hush money himself. How did he do that? This is cut three. Did Donald Trump have anything to do with it? No. Did you get the money from Donald Trump? No. From any of his organizations? No. From anybody connected to Donald Trump? No. Where did you get the money? I took out a HELOC loan against my property. I said, "Why would you do that?" He said, "I didn't want anybody to know where I got this money. I didn't want Melania to know. I didn't want my own wife to know because she's in charge." He said of the Cohen family finances. He said, "If she saw money coming out of my account, she'd ask me a hundred questions and I didn't want to answer any of them." So he liked to lie to his wife as well. No one was above Michael Cohen's line. His wife would have hated if he took that money out of his account, but I'm sure she loved taking out a HELOC? What are we doing? And by the way, listen, I mean, I'm a loyal guy, but if you are not my parents or my brother, I am not taking out a HELOC for you. And even in that case, if you're my brother, it's going to be really good. I think my parents are the only person I would take a HELOC out for. Yeah, I don't think this, I don't think anyone in business, I don't think any lawyer does this unless they're a family. And he did say he considered the Trump Organization to be like a family, but I would hope as a lawyer he could distinguish family from his business relationships, but obviously he couldn't. But yeah, as a wife, I will say this. He said his wife would have been mad. Yeah, I don't know any wife in America who wouldn't be mad. It's like, you took out what? You did what? Are you nuts? Why did you do that? That's just a normal reaction. Maybe his wife is actually kind of normal. This is cut for it now. Costello is explaining the motivation because again, you can hear it in his voice. He couldn't make sense of that. You took out a HELOC. Why would you do that? There's got to be something more. And maybe Michael Cohen has a giant heart. Like he just feels too much. He cares too much. He bleeds too much for people. But I don't think Bob Costello was buying that. I think Costello felt like there's something you're not telling me here about why you're doing all of this. And I do think, I don't think Michael Cohen is ever motivated by feeling like loyalty or feeling afraid for Melania Trump, but none of that really checks out. But this next thing does. The idea that Michael Cohen is being motivated by revenge or by a desire to get ahead in some way, I do believe. I believe he is someone who looks out for himself, who is very crafty in some senses and wants to get ahead. Now, this is where it kind of connects. This is cut for. It was clear after talking to him for several days after that, whenever we talked on the phone or in my office, that he kept on bringing up the subject that he felt he was betrayed by not being brought down to Washington, D.C. This guy thought, he said to me, that he should have been Attorney General of the United States, or at least the Chief Assistant to the President, ludicrous, but that's what he thought. And he was very angry about that. He wanted to do something to put himself back into the inner circle of Donald Trump. That's why he took care of this on his own. There had to be a motivation. Michael Cohen is always working for things that benefit himself. And that's what he was doing here. That's completely different to what he said that he told the grand jury. That's completely different to what he's testifying to in New York. And this is the most amazing part to me, because nothing that Costello just said there is news to us. We know that Michael Cohen has been addictive. We know that he is motivated by greed and by wanting to get ahead and looking out for himself. Just go on his TikTok. You don't have to take my word for it. Go on his TikTok. He's very open about this. He's like Colin Albert. He likes to film himself quite a bit. But my favorite part of this whole thing is yesterday we talked about how Dan Goldman, he's the representative from New York. He was a big part of the, I want to say the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump, the sequel. And he's a clown. He's an absolute clown. And he admitted that he was prepping Michael Cohen for this case, which is all you need to know about Michael Cohen is that he's taking legal advice from Dan Goldman. This all bodes very well for Donald Trump. If Dan Goldman is directing the witness in this case, that's good news for the Trump team. But anyway, so Dan Goldman, right? He is venting. This is from Red State over Costello's testimony. And he's characterizing it as jury tampering. And I want to read you this quote. He goes, you know that coming down here to DC outside of that courtroom, while that witness, meaning Michael Cohen is on the stand to try to impeach his credibility and his testimony is jury tampering. You know it is unethical. You know that you were trying to discredit a current witness at a current trial. You want to talk unethical. Michael Cohen is on TikTok with t-shirts that show Trump in prison trying to raise money for himself over this vendetta that he has against a guy because he didn't make him attorney general. He's a convicted felon and a seat. Was it a serial purger? Is what a federal judge called him? And he's the star witness. You want to talk unethical, Dan Goldman, I would start there. Before you start smearing and slandering Robert Costello for just giving an honest account of the 2018 debriefing that he had with Michael Cohen and these lawyers. Again, I've never seen people with such little self awareness. The guy who's contradicting Michael Cohen is unethical. He is the one who is impeaching Michael Cohen's credibility. I think Michael Cohen has impeached his credibility all on his own. I don't think he needs any help with that. He might need help taking out loans to pay off stormy Daniels. He might need he unlocks. He might need all these things. I don't think he needs help when it comes to destroying his own credibility. I would say his social media presence does that just fine. Eight four four five hundred forty two forty two. When we come back, I've got more to get to including updates on this debate. So we told you yesterday that Joe Biden put out a video. It had like 400 jump cuts in it where he said, "Come on, pal. Let's go here. Get off my lawn." I don't know. There's something Clint East would ask. I'll make my day pal. Yeah, make my day pal. And he wants to have this debate with Donald Trump and he put in all these rules. It can't be the commission on presidential debates. It can't be. There can be no live audience. There has to be microphones. They have to shut off when your time is up. All of these rules so that Joe Biden feels like it's going to be fair to him. And the funny part is I think he was expecting Trump to come back and say, "Well, we want to do this and that." Trump played this one right. I don't care what people say. There's so many conservatives on social media and on other places that are saying, "Donald Trump, he deserves to lose if he does this debate with all of these regulations in place." If he had said, "Well, fine, I'll debate you, Joe Biden, but XYZ, he never would get this opportunity again." Joe Biden would say, "We offered, we're done." So he did the right thing by calling his bluff and saying, "Great, let's do it. Let's debate." So now that he's got this debate, and Jake Tapper is going to host Jake Tapper, someone who's very, very well known for his ability to be nonpartisan, is going to be calling the balls and strikes as moderator of this debate on CNN of all places. And the crazy part about this is not even the Jake Tapper. It's the fact that Joe Biden is going out of his way to try to avoid RFK Jr. being on the debate stage. And this has me thinking, "Do you notice this, Jared?" It's like, I was on -- I was up the mind that RFK Jr. was going to hurt Trump more than Biden, because I think that there's some topics that he really resonates with the MAGA base on, whether it's the vaccines or, you know, there's just certain things that I think he resonates with Republicans on. But I must be wrong on that, because Biden is terrified of this guy, and I said it to Howie, and how he said he doesn't want the visual of being up there next to RFK Jr. Because everyone's mind is immediately going to go to, well, he would be a good option instead of Joe. He's a contender, and Joe Biden can't handle that. Yeah, RFK Jr. may have been able to take some votes away from Trump until he said he is for full-term abortion up to birth. I think that eliminated him for a lot of people. Maybe he -- maybe they feel -- And now he can -- he will only take votes away from Biden because of that. Yeah, and Biden is really bending over backwards to make sure RFK Jr. not only doesn't have Secret Service, but does not get on this debate stage. It seems like that's his real, real demand is that he stay away from the CNN debate. We'll give you updates on that. Don't go anywhere. We will be right back. Hi, it's Toby from Cape Gunworks. I'm taking all your firearm and self-defense questions every Tuesday. Join Grace and me for 2A Tuesday, Tuesdays at 2PM. This is the Grace Curly Show. Welcome back to the Grace Curly Show. Don't kill me, everybody, okay? It's not my fault. I got it mixed up. Turtleboy is going to join us at 105. Walker jokes move back to 130, everything. The universe is how it should be. So you don't have to call in yet. Wait for 130 for Walker joke. We're going to talk to Aiden Carney. Turtleboy about the Colin Albert Testimony when we return. In the meantime, let's go to a caller, Ron. You're up next on the Grace Curly Show. What's going on, Ron? Grace, how are you? Good. What's up? I don't know if you've covered it yet or not, or if you are going to cover it, but there was a few big stories this morning about the COVID origins. I think it was the HHS funding EcoHealth Alliance, and that is the entity that Dr. Fauci was funneling grants into, which were studying coronaviruses specifically in the Wuhan lab. And it has the words gain a function all over the articles, everything like that. And the COVID crew stays in the news. Fauci Francis Collins and Peter Dazzick. So it really looks like at this point that it came from a lab and we have to decide on whether or not if it was accidental or intentional. Right. And Ron, Ron, we'll go back to this in a little bit, but Ron is right. The USS suspended funding for the group at the center of the COVID origins fight. Peter Dazzick is the president of EcoHealth Alliance. That was a decision that came down today. And we will talk about this later, Ron. Thank you for bringing it up. That was from the New York Times. We'll be right back, don't worry.