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Autograph, go to autograph.io or download the app and use the code F-I-V-E. And now, today's episode. Down to this game. Yay. First game. Five on the floor. Right for my dog. Way and here's the game. You can check the score. Hustle hard, put the scars. Rain, bubble, frogs. Just like, but the same. You're in trouble, y'all. Check the flow plan. You got 'em all day. Y'all through the block. Stop the one hand. And Pappy Truss is probably having guts. We here to bring the heat. Y'all can hang it up. Welcome to Five on the Floor, a daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan Skolnick, Greg Selvander and Alex Toledo, plus others from the Five Reason Sports Network. We're back to Five on the floor here on the Five Reason's YouTube channel. Here's today's floor plan. I'm Ethan Skolnick. And follow me to Jay Skolnick on Five Reason Sports. We've got Greg Selvander. You can follow him at Greg Selvander, Alex Toledo. You can follow him at Tropical Blanket. All right. We are officially in the off season. We are in transaction season. I know that's what most of you are waiting for. We did not anticipate that this would happen in the middle of May. But here we are. Not only are the Miami Heat eliminated, but also so are the Cleveland Cavaliers. And so we are going to start whale hunting at this point if we can. We don't know if the whale is actually going to be on the water. And that's really the issue here. As we talk about Donovan Mitchell, is that he's not a free agent. He's not even necessarily demanded to come out of Cleveland yet. He's kind of dodged the question every time that it's been asked. And there are more and more reports from actually reporters that I trust who cover the calves at the athletic and other places who seem to think that Donovan may just quietly sign an extension. And if that's the case, we're going to be doing a lot of talking for nothing. But we're going to do it anyway because we just did a Trey Young episode. He's not a free agent either. I know some of you want us to do a Brandon Ingram episode. And of course, it's probably a Kevin Durant episode that feels like an annual thing here that we do on the podcast. I'll start with a question that I asked Alex Dono today on five guys related to Donovan Mitchell. If he is available, is he the one, Alex, that you go all in on? Tough question. No, just kidding. I'm not going to do that. He is the one you go all in on. Tell me that you didn't expect that question. That's the obvious question today. No, I just wanted to do a little, you know, a pump fake there. No, it's that he's he's definitely the guy you go all in on now. I mean, we can have a conversation about how all in you go. Right. Like I'm sure none of us want to see both. Haka is annual, which gone. I think, you know, you probably negotiate the best you can, but if you're telling me it comes down to both of them gone or Donovan Mitchell. Oh, man. I, you might just have to do it. And I think that's kind of all in means. And also all in probably means you got to trade the number 15 pick. Maybe another first in the future, not to mention, you know, the contracts to make the salary work, which would probably be Tyler hero along with, you know, those young guys. So I just think like it's a lot. No doubt. But he is the guy who is no doubt like the one who fits both timelines. He is the one that bridges both timelines. And I think like you could make the argument. He's not the only one. You can make that argument for a tray or for a Brandon Ingram, but we all know like Mitchell. I think we all think of Mitchell as just a better player than both of them and somebody who can take over and fit just a little bit easier. Right. He is a high usage player, but the guy is just really, really good at what he does. And it happens to be something that the heat, you know, are desperate for. I think you go all in. You don't, you know, you don't look back and may you don't offer everything from, you know, from the start. If that happens, you negotiate the best you can. But he's the guy that I don't think you can fuck around with. So let me read a quote. Wheel, wheeler Jalen, who's a follow on Twitter here, tweeted out what Tim Legler said today on get up ESPN, Greg. You add down a Mitchell to the mix. Now the toughness you have, how well coached you are really coming to play when you have a guy who gets you 30 every night and be the best player in a playoff game. So I'll ask if that's the case. Okay. And we obviously know what Jimmy Butler can be in a playoff game if he gets there, which. And also if they get to a seed high enough where they're not in the play in and this actually has a better chance to matter. Do you take a chance? And I asked that question because I've been of the mind that, you know, you don't trade you a bitch if you don't have to, right? But I know that the concern for heat fans, particularly because they're limited in terms of first round picks unless they get some protections removed. I feel like we talk about that every summer. They've given up a first round pick for Terry Rosier already, which takes them a little bit out of the game. There is a little bit of a diminished field here because I think Mitchell has more control over his situation than Dame did simply because there are fewer years on that contract left. So whether or not he's going to get any, whether or not he'll agree to an extension somewhere that gives him a little bit more authority at this point. But I think what he fans are concerned about is, okay, you kind of play games with this, right? Like, and you don't offer everything up front. And then somebody like a Milwaukee sneaks in. I'm not saying it'd be Milwaukee this time, but some other team sneaks in and takes it. Did you just put you over chockers and all of this on the table right at the start? I think you do because you might get outbid anyway. It may not matter. You may offer everything you have and another team could come in and offer more, particularly with draft picks. So, like, I'm off the mindset of if you're going to go all in, go all in, put in a good faith offer at the start for a player that is a perennial all-star would come here and bridge the two, you know, builds of a band build and a Jimmy build. I just think that it makes perfect sense. If you're going to do the three superstar thing, the three max player thing, Donovan Mitchell is the right guy to go for it. Otherwise, I actually am starting to look more and more around the league. And I think that it's going to get phased out. The three max players superstar stuff. And so, to me, I don't think it's going to be necessary to be to have three stars to win championships. But it may take a few more years for players to be dispersed, et cetera. But for now, if you're going all in, put the good faith offer on the table up front. Don't mess around. And as Alex alluded to the contracts, Tyler hero, Yovich, Hawkez, that gets you there, right, right for Donovan Mitchell. There's another, you know, school of thought out there, though, that I've seen floating around social media. And that would be if you weren't going to extend Jimmy and things we're going to kind of go in another direction. Could you use Jimmy Butler's destination as a third team to then bring Donovan Mitchell in? That's another creative way of getting there. Obviously, I like the option with Jimmy Butler in town. But just to present all different avenues, that's another thing to consider. Well, they would be pivoting then clearly to the BAM build. Although at that point, it'd be the BAM Mitchell build. You'd have to give up less of the younger assets. And so you'd go with a younger team that maybe has a longer shelf life here than just extending Jimmy. And that's why we've said that so many of these conversations, I said this with Brady on the Hawkez, Yovich pod, where we talked about their upsides. So much of this comes down to what their intention is with the Jimmy extension. And I also wonder if they're waiting on the Jimmy extension, or at least a decision on the degree, they can't do it until July 7th anyway. But they're waiting on a decision on the Jimmy extension to know what else they're putting around him or not and which direction they're actually pivoting, like which lane they're going here. That it feels to me like there's a little of that that could be going on as well. They don't necessarily need to decide Jimmy right now. So as Pat said, they don't need to decide Jimmy on July 7th. I just believe that they're only really two options with Jimmy. And I may be proven wrong, but I don't see them trading him. I still think the two most likely situations are either they offer him the extension when he wants it, okay, full amount, no stipulations, or he plays the one year he opts out, Sayonara. Like I, I, that's the way I see this thing playing out based on conversations I've had with people and just my hunches off of those conversations and just Jimmy's will, strong will about certain things and not, not sort of compromising in that way and who he is. I kind of feel like that's where this is heading. And, and so that has to be that you have to have that in the back of your mind. Like you have to know what you're doing with Jimmy Butler. Now I want to clarify one thing before we go further here because I actually have a little history with Donna Mitchell on the Jimmy Butler conversation. And Greg, I think you and I should probably address that here for the very beginning because I know it's going to get brought up again. And it certainly would get brought up by Donna Mitchell. I think if he remembers it, if he actually ends up in Miami, which is that both you and I, right, both you and I heard a little over a year ago that from various sources, I had two. Okay. I don't have any of you had. We didn't talk about who told us these things that Donovan at the time in these had some reservations. That's what I said. I remember saying it on the back end of a Miami heat beat episode and it got aggregated in a certain way. And then Donovan actually saw it posted on NBA central or Hoop central, whatever it was done central. Then I think at the time was NBA central and went over the top kind of coming at me because I had said that I'd heard this thing, which I did from a couple of different people. And again, I didn't hear that he doesn't like Jimmy Butler. I never heard that. There are pictures of the two of them hanging out. I know that there's a friendship relationship there. But I had heard that there, there were some reservations about playing with Jimmy and everything that that entails. I stand by what I heard at that point. I understand why Donovan would say differently, right? We both do, right? So I just want to make that clear at the beginning. I don't know that that's still the case. And I'm sure Donovan may say those people were wrong. They told us that. That's fine. And that's kind of what he said. But I just want to, we're going to go to break now. We'll come back on the other side. But I wanted to at least address that because that is the elephant in the room with Donovan Mitchell. And I don't want to run from things like that. That's what I heard at the time. Does not mean that they wouldn't fit on the court. And it doesn't mean even necessarily that I guess that the people who gave me that information were entirely accurate about that. I believe they were at the time. So I just want to, I just want to stick to that and let everybody know that. All right. On the other side of this, we'll get into a little bit more of the basketball fit as we go forward. And also like if there is a piece that you could withhold from this, what would it be? And then the third thing is how long do you wait on this before pivoting to somebody else? Because that has become an issue for the heat in the past. Before we do want to introduce great sponsor, the Five Reasons Sports Network, our friends over at Water Cleanup of Florida. You can find them at wcufl.com. That's wcufl.com. They do all the preventative work. So when you have a leak, they can detect the leak. They can try to clean up the leak. They'll do the damage assessment afterwards. But you want to cover it beforehand. More than 75 star reviews on Google, our friends, Michael Robert, their entire team based in Boca Raton. They service the entire Tri County area. Just good people. 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Most passengers killed in crashes weren't buckled up. Nobody is above the laws of physics. Buckle up and shift into safe. A message from the Colorado Department of Transportation. All right, so let's get to this question. You know, the encore fit, I think we've addressed it a lot. He's really good. Okay, offensively. I feel like defensively, he's average. I feel like he could be better in the right system. Before we get on to the stuff, would you say defensive? Where is he defensively, Alex? Is average fair? I mean, you saw there were a lot of complaints by the end. I mean, I think he's been better in Cleveland. You can make a case, he's still below average. I think when he tries, he's about average. And, you know, like, to be fair, his defensive estimated plus minus took a huge, huge leap forward this year. It was never, you know, better than average. And it was in the 89th percentile this year. So a lot of that might've had to do with the Cavs, just the defense as a team. But, you know, you got to give him credit for being a part of it and maybe not being, you know, quite as lazy off ball and things of that nature. I mean, he's not huge either. Like, he's a strong, stocky guard. He is still 6-3. Like, there's certain limitations there. The good thing about him is, you know, he has a long wingspan. Like I said, he's strong. So I think you can, you know, there's things that you can work around there defensively. And I think turn him into kind of a better one if he's not being asked to do all the scoring and shot creation. I mean, I think that's the thing you got to, like, figure out is what that offensive balance would be. Because I think if you're just getting him here to just take all the shots and play a lot of ISIL one-on-one, like, it's cool. You know, that's part of being an innings eater is that you're capable of doing that throughout the regular season. And just getting you enough so that you don't have to be in the playing, right? That's like the whole idea of all this is to finally get away from that path. But it's going to be easier said than done because he's a high he's a high usage superstar, right? You'd be incorporating him into a team that doesn't really run that type of basketball and the heat themselves would be completely, completely reshaping their offensive identity with Donovan. So that's not something that I think would be just seamless from day one. But what he brings is something that you absolutely work around and try to get the best up. And I'd be optimistic that they could get the best out of him on both ends of the floor. You know, they would have to work for it. I don't think it would be, like I said, day one and he's off to the races. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think it's worth the hassle. It's just you also would be replacing Tyler's production likely Jaime and Nico. Like, that's a lot of ball handling and shock racing that would need to be replaced. And, you know, that's what he's there for. Let's ask this question then going forward. So I say to you, Greg, there's one piece you can hold out. Okay. It's Jovitch. It's Hawkez. It's whoever you pick 15th of. They can't trade that pick until they make it, right? Or it's maybe holding out one additional first round pick. Or it's the protections on a first future first round pick. Because I mean, some of the speculation is, you know, the 29 pick, the 30 pick. I'm not really sure. Am I missing something? I saw some stuff in terms of trade machine today about trading both with 29 and 30. I don't know if they could do that. You can't have it, right? You can't have it. This is why I'm saying, like, be a little careful with the trade machine stuff you're seeing on social media. Because some of it is just like that. If you see picks being traded two straight years and they don't have a pick from somebody else during one of those years, that's not happening. So let's, you know, because of the stepping rule. But if there's one piece, is Yovich the piece? Is that the one? I mean, would you rather? You'd rather keep Yovich than say an additional first round pick. For sure. Because he fits next to BAM, ready to contribute, has taken a leap. I mean, the other big question mark, though, is like, what do you do with Terry Rose here if you get Donovan Mitchell? Like, how does that look? And how do you work that out? I guess Terry-- Expanded a year kind of it. Yeah, that was just about to say you pitch him on the six man and the year thing. Because that's a smallish, very small back court. I'm not going to say smallish. That's small. So that's a question mark, too. But I think you work that kind of stuff out, right? If you can hold back Niko, that's a home run. I don't think you're going to be able to do something like that because you lack the available picks. If you had, you know, the ability or the stockpile to trade four or five picks, some crazy number. And I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. Which I don't know that I endorse going crazy with the picks because I've seen it fracture other organizations, but the heat aren't in that position anyway. I just think you're going to get outbid so quickly that you've got to put your best offer forward and I think it would involve Niko. But if I can keep him, that would be great. And there was, you know, kind of whispers on social media. I don't know how much to take from it yet because I've been trying to clarify personally. Okay, we lost Greg there for a second, but I've got. I think what you were saying there, you froze up was that there's a report out there that the Cavs like Jaime. I will tell you, it doesn't surprise me. I'm going to have a little bit more kind of hunch knowledge on these transactions that may be on Portland because I didn't know anything about Joe Cronin. Probably a good thing. I know a little bit more about Kobe Altman. I have, as I mentioned before, spent a lot of time with Kobe actually during one year when he was, when I actually was covering the Cavaliers for Bleacher Report because I was sent up there with LeBron in the 2014-15 season and stayed at the same residence/hotel that Kobe did. So I got to know him a little bit. We talked a lot about Pat Riley. He actually was very interested in what the heat we're doing. At the time, I think Kobe was actually fourth on the depth chart in their front office. David Griffin was first. Raja Bell was up there with them as well. Somebody else I knew from South Florida. I know Kobe's, I know, yes, exactly. I thought you legend. And I know he's got a really good, his son's a really good football player now too. But anyway, the point is I know Kobe a little bit better and I kind of know what kind of players he likes and Jaime fits that wheelhouse in terms of what I believe the type of player he likes. So that doesn't stun me. But also there has been. I know people are going to talk about, you know, Gilbert and Harrison and all the bad blood from the whole, you know, LeBron thing. But they, they, they, they, he made an important deal with the Cavs to bring Dwayne Wade back. And, and so basically like, you know, there is a relationship. That is a relationship. It didn't hurt the Cavs. He wasn't playing very well. But basically, I mean, if, if you really hated the heat franchise, you don't send their franchise player back for a very traditional second round pick that never, that, that never vests, right? So the fact is that he did like the heat of big solid there and that came from a, just a random conversation between Andy Ellesburg and him, Andy wasn't trying to get Dwayne back. And Kobe actually sort of my understanding and I think they told this story publicly is that he kind of suggested it. Like do you, you want Dwayne back and when Andy went into the office and told Sfo, he's like Dwayne who? Because it was just not even like a consideration. And I've said that's one of the most important frant, frant, transactions in my, I mean, history, because without him, Jimmy Butler is probably not here. You never repair the bad blood with, with Dwayne. You never have those moments he had with the triple double at the end and everything else. So there is a relationship there. So I don't think that this is going to be, look, every front office acts in its best interest, right? Like other than that, what Kobe did for the heat that time, you don't just give players away because of organization feels like you got to protect your own job. Kobe has kind of been up and down in terms of his job security over the years. Gilbert likes to fire GMs. So he's not going to do a bad deal just for the sake of doing a bad, just, just to do the heat of solid. But I do think he'll talk to them. Like, I'm like, we're, we're at the level right now that, uh, you know, that to me, that's the bar. Like, well, they progress. Because, uh, progress, because that's Joe Crow. So I'm just saying there is an option here. So let's pivot into the last topic here on this, which is this question. How long do you wait? Like if this drags out, like the dame thing dragged out last year and a lot of heat fans like you could have pivoted to Porzingis. You could have pivoted to this. Heat fans were not saying that at the time. I just want to be clear on that. The majority of them on social media were like, you get, we get, do what you have to do to get dame. They didn't get dame. And then everybody was frustrated by it. Um, I don't know what else is out there this time. Like to go get a Zach Levine is not that interesting to me. I mean, even, even Trey, but I can kind of feel like if, if Trey's not traded yet and then the heater waiting around on a Mitchell thing to happen and Trey gets and ends up then getting traded. I can see it on social media like, oh, you know, they missed out. Pat's asleep. Okay. And all the rest of that. So I'll just say that's both of you guys as we close here. Um, how long do you wait, Alex? How long do you give this? Honestly, um, I think it's a good point that you bring up. I don't know what's worth. Not waiting this out for. Because I ultimately don't think Trey is the heat step of players. Some people might scoff at that. You know, we did a whole podcast talking about it. I gave the case for why they should at least consider it. All that being said, like knowing what we know about the heat, and you guys correct me if I'm wrong, he doesn't seem like the player that they would be like, okay, um, let's stop waiting on Donovan or maybe we just don't feel great about it. Like we feel like another team's going to outbid us and we just go to Trey. I don't think it's a bad idea to be clear. Um, I just don't think the heat would do that. I don't think it would be a bad idea. Um, I don't think it would be a bad idea to be clear. Um, I think it would be a bad idea to be clear. Um, you know, based off. You know, the way they've, um, operated in the past, like, it even reminds me a little bit of a couple of summers ago when we were talking about Mitchell, where he was kind of, it seemed like he was kind of their second option. And they were more prioritizing KD. And I think. They're going to prioritize Donovan. If he does, you know, say, you know, I'm not going to sign the extension and the calves look to trade him or whatever. And I think it would be a scenario where things have stalled. With Mitchell talks. And one of our both Trey and Ingram. Are available. And it's like, that's a very specific scenario. It might not play out that way, right? Like we might not get this, but. Um, personally, I think, you know, if they feel like. Okay, we're not really making a lot of progress on this. It doesn't look great. You know, another, maybe they're just going to take another team's draft pick package, which by the way, you know, they can get outbid by another team for sure. Like the teams that have been thrown around here, even the Lakers, who can offer three. First round picks and, you know, like Austin Reeves and Ruby or whatever to make the money work. A team like Houston who wants to compete. Memphis was thrown around today by somebody. Like there are teams who can talk themselves into. Throwing draft capital here, not to mention the teams that have already been mentioned, like the, you know, Brooklyn and. I guess even New York, like it's a lot. It's a lot for the heat to deal with. And unless he says only Miami and, you know, his agent and him, and don't budge afterwards. And then you say, you know, give me these two other teams, like Dame and Aaron Goodwin did. Like it has to be that perfect. It has to be only Miami. And that's the way that the heat can like really. Take control of this. Otherwise, like I don't think. I don't think it would be a bad idea to be like, okay, if this isn't working out, we don't feel good about it. Like maybe pivot to something else. I just don't know that that's how they feel. What do you think? Greg, wait it out. I think you do. I think like what, what, what can happen? What's the worst that can happen? You have to like pivot to another deal that is a lateral move, but shakes things up. Okay. I think that that's not the worst case. And you can do that at any point in the summer. Hopefully it doesn't drag out that long. But that's why I also think you put a good faith offer in right up front. Cause you don't want it to last and you don't want it to drag on. So don't let the negotiation process get the best of you. And so that's just kind of where I come down on it. I think you do wait it out. But come in with a good, a good faith bid right up front. Also another option before we close this out that we hadn't really, you know, just a throw out there. Like I wonder and also kind of rehash some of the stuff we did last summer. Like there could probably be some like fun, funny scenarios here where it's, that's not funny, but like Tyler going to another team and maybe they get a pick out of that. You know, Terry, Terry, the same thing, right? Like maybe a team is willing to throw and that way you just kind of stack up on draft cap. But again, that's even more parties evolves is going to be harder to do. But just to throw that option out, that might be like another way that they can manufacture some of that draft capital. And again, it will last two summers. Well, right. Well, that becomes the question too. Like people are talking about, well, should you made the Terry move? I think we were all in favor. I know Greg and I strongly are the Terry move at the time. And the fact that he got hurt doesn't change my view of that. Like that they had to make a move. The fans would have been angry if they just let Lowery's contract expire. And giving up the first round pick, nobody was that concerned about at the time. I don't think it's the difference between making this trade or not, because I do think you probably could recoup something close to a first round pick for Terry if you had to. And so that's the thing. I don't, if he's not in an apparatus by then, which again, with the way that the heat report injuries, I have no idea. Okay. I mean, this is one of the most mysterious injuries they've ever had. But I don't think like all hope is lost. Like it's not like they put a first round pick in a totally useless player that they won't be able to remove again. As long as he's healthy, he's got two, you know, manageable years left on his contract. By the way, also talk about another team. The team that in terrorism grew up in Ohio and destroys the Cavs consistently. He did it with Miami again now. So I would have that in the back of your mind. When I wasn't even aware of his history against the Cavs until he did it to the Cavs with Miami. And every Cavs fan on the timeline was like, oh, my God, we're so sick of that guy. They might want that guy. I don't know. Maybe not to play with Garland. Okay. And again, there's a lot of it goes into this, but there's talk to that, you know, Garland may want to be out of there. He's clutch. He may want to be out of there if Mitchell's still there. So there's a lot of moving parts to this. I do think to close here. They can get in the ballpark on this one. Okay. But the first thing is he's got to want to go. And if he just wants to sign the extension there, like, we're going to get into all this backroom stuff and how much the heat signal that they're going to give up for him because maybe that influences his decision on whether or not to sign the extension for him. Just like with Lillard, there was a lot of stuff we assumed. I thought him asking out through the agent was a good thing basically, or, but it turned out that everything the agent did in that case kind of destroyed the process. So again, these things are complex. I think the heat will hold their cards close to the vest. But he is a player in the age range and of the skill level that they need right now. And if they have to give up, Yoavitch, I guess I'll swallow it. But I won't like it. I'll say that. To me, I don't think it's a line in the sand. But it's close enough to make me uncomfortable is the way that I'll put it. But I'll say this. If it means the difference between watching a season like we watched last year and watching something with something fresh, we'll take the downloads. Thanks to Alex. Thanks to Greg. Thanks to our sponsors, Autograph. Get that discount on the BAM Autograph jersey. And also our friend, our friend's over at Water Clean up in Florida. Have a good day, everybody. Thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the Fivers and Sports Network. After all, someone needs to listen to my dad. How dangerous is it to unwrap a burger at 40 miles per hour? More so than you think. In a little over two seconds, your car can travel slightly more than 117 feet, which is the same length as 20 bicycles. Anything that distracts you while driving is dangerous. That's why driving while texting can be deadly too. So put it down. It can wait. Don't drive distracted. Shift into safe. A message from the Colorado Department of Transportation. Why wear a seatbelt? The math speaks for itself. 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