[MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our favorites, Audible. No Audible.com or that lovely app. I love the app, and I love it all. Audible is my favorite. Audible keeps me sane on the road. It is the best. Audible, what it does is let you enjoy all of your audio entertainment in one app. One stop, shop, you'll always find the best of what you love, or something new to discover, because they're putting up new stuff constantly. They offer an incredible selection of audio books across every genre, from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, mysteries, thrillers, motivation, wellness, business. I'll tell you one that I am checking out at True Crime when it's very interesting. It's called Chaos by Tom O'Neal. And if you join as an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including latest bestsellers, new releases, right to you, no charge. It's beautiful. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Just visit audible.com/smalltownmurder or text Small Town Murder to 500, 500. That's audible.com/smalltownmurder or text Small Town Murder to 500, 500. Now back to the show. This episode is brought to you in part by June's Journey. Picture it, the glamour of the roaring 20s wrapped in a mystery that only you can solve. Dive into June Parker's captivating quest to uncover scandalous family secrets. With your keen eye for detail, find hidden clues and solve mind-boggling puzzles. It's all about observation, intrigue, and drama. But beware, each clue leads deeper into a thrilling storyline filled with danger and romance. June needs your help, detective. Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. Your adventure awaits. If you're constantly on the hunt for a good deal, then you need Rakuten. 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But this, we still pack way more than an hour's worth of crazy into an hour, so we're gonna do that this week. Quickly, before we get started, definitely head to shut up and give me murder.com. What's there, Jimmy? (laughs) - I'll tell you what's there. - Live shows, live show tickets. - Tickets. - Yes. - Live shows, that's right. And merch, and all sorts of cool stuff there. So get yourself to shut up and give me murder.com. May 31st, Durham, North Carolina. - You bet. - That is our next stop. The next night in Nashville sold out, but still a few tickets left for Durham. So get 'em while they're there. Come see us, we're gonna have a party and-- - Hey, wait. - Some pulled pork with some thin vinegary barbecue sauce like they have down there. We're gonna be all full of pork when we get out on stage. It's gonna be excellent. - All porked up. - All porked up. So do that, definitely patreon.com/crimeinsports. You definitely want that. That is good stuff. All the bonus materials there. - For sure. - Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get everything we have, hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff. You've never heard new stuff every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get all of it. All of the baby this week, which you're gonna get. For crime in sports, theme park disasters are back again. Oh my goodness, every few months we have to revisit that. More crazy stuff, people falling out of roller coasters and kids drowning in pools and all sorts of craziness. And then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about the craziest execution methods in history, so that is a lot of fun. People had imaginations and they really came up with some weird stuff, so. We'll talk all about that. patreon.com/crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show where we were like, "Knowledge." The amazing, wonderfulness that you have bestowed upon us. So thank you for doing that. And also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions. Oh boy. Which is, I'm telling you the best, funniest hour in podcasting. So get in there, do that. That said, I think it's time. What do you say? I think it's time. We gotta clear the lungs, we gotta really get it going and let's all arms to the sky and let's all shout. ♪ Shut up and give me murder ♪ Let's do this, everybody. What do you say? You ready, my friend? Let's go on a trip, shall we? Okay. All right, we are going down south this week. Oh boy. We're heading over to South Carolina to Somerville, South Carolina. And that is just like the season? Or is it with the no? Like the season, no, not so yeah. It's like summer like the sea, like just a ville of all summer. Oh yeah. Where it is? South Eastern. Why cut off? So yeah. All year round, baby. This is South Eastern, South Carolina. So we go down in the coastal area, but not quite. It's about 30 minutes to Charleston. 30 minutes more inland than Charleston. About two hours to Sockasty, which was our last South Carolina episode. That was episode 445. Bed chains and dark deeds. That was oh, that was a dark episode, man. That was crazy stuff. It's area code 843. About 50,000 people here at this point. Good amount, yeah. And it has blown up in the last 10 years. Before that, there was nobody there for centuries. And then all. Try living in Charleston. It's so hard now. It's so expensive. And there's a beach. So that's why. And the burbs have gotten just as bad. If you can get there half hour outside of it, that's the burbs. That's going to be tough. Median household income here is $64,507 a year. So it's right around the national average. Median home price also around the average, $355,200. That's the median. It's tough. It has two modos here, this town. Number one, the flower town in the pines. They always call it the flower town here. And then the other one is at the heart of it all. Isn't it? Not really. Most of it's that way. Most of it's down that way, Sam, if you go near the beach. There's a beach down there. That's where the heart's going to be. That's all right there. We're not in all. We're all adjacent is where we are in this town. If you mean like removed from everywhere, like the heart is like kind of a distance from the good stuff, right? I guess so, yeah. Hey, is that, I don't know, man. So it makes more sense than what they got going on. Yeah. History of this town. It's located on it. This is right from the town's website. Located on a pine forested ridge, Somerville was first inhabited in the late 1700s. And this was people coming from the low country closer to the water. And they wanted refuge from summer heat, or I'm sorry, farther away from the water. This was to get refuge from summer heat, less mosquitoes, less disease. Up high, yeah, yeah. That's what they're doing. So plantation families from May to September during the summer, they would head for higher elevations to live temporarily here to cool off a little bit. Oh, snowboard kind of people, yeah. Exactly. The last decade of the 1800s, though, this stuff, normally the town's burned down, that happened here. They definitely burned down to stride out the whole downtown area, most buildings, but there was also a huge earthquake in 1886, which really? You don't think of South Carolina's big earthquake country, but apparently a big earthquake fucked everything up. They rebuilt it, and then it all burned to the ground. So that's perfect. Shuck it up to the ground, then burned itself. Oh, boy. Give up, especially down here. They're pretty religious. I'd say this is some biblical shit, right? God doesn't want us here, apparently. And then every August, they get crazy hurricane level storms. Oh, yeah. It's a lot on how they deal with it. Do you want to stay there? The whole thing changed, and the town's fortunes changed when the Congress of Physicians in Paris declared Somerville one of the world's two best places for treating lung disorders, for some reason. Where's the other one? I don't know, probably Tucson. Probably the South, the other terrible place. Yeah, low deserts. That's where they all used to go. I mean, people had sent tuberculosis. They'd sent him to the desert. So it was a bedroom community here, and that's all it remained. It didn't reach 6,000 people until the late 1970s. And now there's 50,000. So, yeah, it doubled in the '80s. And then, really, the last 20 years, it's blown up. Reviews of this town, just a few here, here is five stars. Somerville is a charming and quaint town. Would love to see historic areas preserved. It's getting a little overcrowded, so improving roads would be beneficial. That's everybody's complaint is-- It wasn't built for this many people, and now there's way more traffic than they anticipated ever having. What when it's U-Haul truck after U-Haul truck? It's hard to plan for what's happening. Totally, too fast, overwhelming. Yeah, infrastructure isn't made for that. To double in population in 10 years. That's not normal. Three stars here. It's so boring here. There is not much to do unless you have a job. Well, yeah, that's pretty much everywhere. That's just going to say, what are you going to do without a job? Anyway, you don't have any money. Where are you going to go? What are you going to do? A job is kind of something to do also. So maybe if you had a job, you'd feel more fulfilled. I like the way this person thinks so. You're right, not much to do unless you have a job. I don't want to work. I mean, Jesus Christ. People spend time at the parking garage for fun. That sounds like a lot of fun. Apparently, that's where they hang out. The schools are decent, better than other districts around. I feel like this is a kid. That's a teenager. It sounds like a kid. Teenagers hang out in parking lots. I don't think there's adults hanging out in parking garage, I hope. And 14-year-olds can't get a job, therefore, they're really pissed. They can't do anything without a job. Unless you get a job. Two stars, we were very disappointed in the town. We were considering moving there, but we were looking for a historic, pleasant town. And instead, it had a lot of traffic noise, bad roads, and strip malls that reminded me of some of the poor areas of Florida-beached towns. Where the pours live, you know, down to there. The poor areas. Fucking damp. You don't want to be by the poor areas. Yeah, felt like Fort Myers. Trashy Daytona Beach people, you know, on that. We prefer communities that have a more community feel, so we will keep looking too bad, really. OK, things to do. Everything here is based on flowers or sweet tea. And I'm not shitting you. All the activities. Well, that's South Carolina with the sweet tea. Oh, they're flower festivals and everything else. And yeah, they-- Well, flowers. Magnolias, I imagine. I know. All sorts of flowers down there. Everything. It's the Magnolia state, so probably. It's just flowers? Flowers, yeah. But the thing is, the sweet tea, they have the sweet tea trail. They call it. Oh. And they describe it sweet tea, a symbol of southern hospitality, as a rich history rooted in Somerville, the birthplace of sweet tea. They claim to be the birthplace of-- Who the fuck knows? I don't know. They were the first ones to put sugar in that bitter shit. I don't believe that. You know what? I made this real sweet. I bet it'd be easier to drink, and I don't think you'd probably not. Summersville celebrates its sweet tea heritage with the Guinness Book of World Records winning largest sweet iced tea container, Mason, it's called. It's a big mason jar at the annual sweet tea festival. They have there. Okay. The sweet tea festival we'll talk about is a celebration of the birthplace of sweet tea. Here, our historic downtown is transformed into a massive open house street fare with different food trucks, entertainment, artisanal vendors, and of course, plenty of sweet tea so you can help select the tea of the year by sampling and voting for your favorite. They're taking it far too serious. If you shut up in this town, they were like, "Sweet tea," and you're like, "No thanks." That's all right. They'd be like, "Huh?" "Get out." Sweet tea? Sweet tea, and they just like panned it. "No, I don't want any." Yeah, you're all going to have to leave now. I'm sorry. It's probably like sweet tea. When you go anywhere and they're about to take your order and they just start filling water cups for your table, they probably do that with sweet tea. They do. No, sweet tea comes on the table like a Nashville. It's just right there. A lot of like the barbecue restaurants, they put down water and sweet tea. They go, "You don't need anything else?" And you're like, "Yes, you can take the sweet tea back and bring me a soda." It's really. I don't need the sweet tea. There's also the "Hold My Tea Bar Crawl and Sweet Tea Cocktail Contest." What is that? Want to have a headache tomorrow? Mix your drink with sweet tea. Jesus Christ. That was like a clock in. Wow. Ten bars are competing in the Somerville Sweet Tea Cocktail Contest. You get to explore various venues and indulge in the entries of Somerville's most talented bartenders. Get shit faced and have sweet tea on your breath. What do you want to bet? It's very lemon-centered. It's got to be. I would hope that a good one would be, just to kill it. It's just another lemon line. There's some sort of citrus. You're going to have to balance it out with some acid there because it's a lot of sugar. That's tough. That said, there's a bunch of bands too here. The Southern Songwriter Festival is mixed in with the Sweet Tea Festival. I mean, song is loose, but all right. It's a lot of people I've never heard of. Exactly. The Rinkins, Stephanie Potter, damn Riley. I don't know who that is. Potter, damn Riley. Potter, damn Riley. And then Ben somewhere, somewhere, but not here. Let's talk about a murder. Yeah. Let's talk about some murder, shall we? Yeah. Okay. Let's do this. Let's talk about a woman first. Let's start out with Carmi Josette Nelson. Carmi. Carmi. C-A-R-M-I-E. Carmi. That's like her real legal name, Carmi. Yeah. It's a nice name. Carmi. It sounds happy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like a sweet gal. Yeah. Well, she's not at all. No, she's not at all sweet. Carmi, it's like those animals that look nice or like a flower, like a Venus fly trap. It smells nice and it's going to clamp you in its jaws, really. That's what Carmi is to her. She was in, she's born in 1967, Carmi. She's an army nurse and she marries another army member in 2001. Carmi went into the army and then married someone from the army. Carmi in the army. Yeah. Carmi was in the army and then married another army person. Feels like. Army Carmi over here. Army Carmi is looking at privates. She had a stripper gig all set right there. It's Carmi, Carmi could have been a real thing. Yeah. She could have been the headliner every time. She marries a guy named Daniel Nelson and that's how the Nelson came in. So Carmi Nelson, she becomes. This is in 2001, she marries him. He is 13 years younger than her. Is that right? He's born in 1980, so he is not even 21 yet and she is 33 at the time and they get married. She's been, so she's been in the army a long time. She's been, yeah. She's a nurse in the army. Yeah. So that's a kind of a career. She's retirement career. Yeah. Yeah. She's doing that as a career and I think she does do 20 years and he's also in the army as well. Yeah. So they get together. He's born in 1980. Daniel Joseph Nelson, he is. A lot of the times here, they often live separately even though they're married because her job after she gets out of the army is as a traveling nurse. So if you know what those traveling nurses, they kind of go from stay for a couple of weeks in each place and that's how they do, they're busy. So they end up living, they end up having separate residences a lot these two because she'll be off somewhere and he'll be somewhere else. Damn, good way to make it work, man. Somehow they make it work. You know what else binds people together though besides that, besides, you know, the longing of the heart from making a growing fonder from distance, is meth also does that pretty well. Is that what they're into? Meth works as a glue, really, that we don't really give it enough credit for. Yes, it'll fuck your life up, destroy your body, but it also works as a glue to hold you. It's more of a chemical weld is what it is. It's really what it is. You don't see meth had couples break up often. You know what I mean? It's very rare. It's usually prison keeps them apart, but other than that, you can't really keep them apart. They're together. If you've ever seen dope sick love, you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about. She has a few issues here and a couple minor ones that I found she hasn't expired. She gets pulled over and arrested for not having a license in 2012. I think there's a child with no seat belt on in her car. She gets a ticket for that. In 2012, she's running around seat belt with seat belt with kid. That's crazy. She's a traveling man, the fucking woman. I don't think she cares very much. Just getting the car. Then in 2014, she is arrested on May 12th, or May 2014. She's arrested for criminal domestic violence on on Daniel. Oh, really? Now these two will trade arrests back and forth, basically, because he's going to get arrested a bunch of times for this as well. These two for domestic violence, yeah, for domestic violence, drink like fish. They take a bunch of tons of different pills, and they also smoke meth and crack. And then they fight. And then they fight, and then people call the cops. So there's a problem, obviously, with these two. Holy shit. They're living this life in 2012. 2012, 2012. They're living it till 2017, as we'll talk about. This is there. They got a wildlife man traveling from place to place. He stays in like motels, and he stays in like homeless camps half the time, and it shelters and shit for some reason. It's like, what are you doing? And they have children. These they do not have children. These two. Okay. Who's children are in the car? Who the hell somebody else's kids? She was probably selling them first or something. Who knows? She's probably selling the child for meth. Just a kid she grabbed at the park and she's going to bring it to the dealer and go, can I get like three hits for this? I mean, what I found a blonde girl. Can you sell her to somebody probably? It's disturbing. I feel so bad. I feel gross. It's really a bad man. 2015, they're living in Charleston. Daniel is convicted of criminal domestic violence for attacking Carmi with a knife. Now it's escalating. Now we have knives. We got weapons. Yeah. Now we got she's so she's taken an arrest. Now he's takes and takes an arrest too. He receives probation and they continued to live together at various motels. I mean, yeah, the government can't tell you who you can live with, right? That's the fucking problem once it's over and if they make up now, now she doesn't even help with the case anymore and they end up back together. It's like, we can disagree on a million things, right? The one thing I think we should all agree on is in a relationship if weaponry is ever involved, we'll ever be together, whenever, ever, anything, I mean, the lines further back up further back, but one, I mean, maybe it's different in meth country, though, if we're talking about, if we're talking about a meth couple, maybe the line is knives because after that, maybe they don't even know what they're doing when they're meth, I don't all up on meth and fucking I don't, I have a notebook, but this is that kind of weaponry, though. I mean, if you're a killer, yeah, if there's any, if there's any motion, if there's any violence before the cops finally get there, somebody's really hurt, they could be dead. It's horrible. So in addition to living in various motels together, they end up going and moving into a friend's home in Alabama. So somebody in Alabama lets them stay with them for some reason, take a ride for States over who the hell would take these people in as God, oh, no, stay at my house, really. Oh, Jesus. This is great. We haven't had the cops in the care in a while. You guys stay here. I haven't gotten to know my local police force yet, so I'm going to, yeah, that's a far trip too. That's a, yeah, that's a long car ride. The closest accommodations they could find were Alabama. That tells you a lot about it. Yeah, go through Georgia and all right, Georgia, I think it's Mississippi, then we went through this earlier in the week, but I think it's with the Michigan debacle, but I think it's go, I think it, I'm not positive here, but I think it goes Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana. Yeah, right. East to West. Yeah, because Florida's panhandle super long. Yeah, and that's got George South Carolina and Georgia above it. I think I could be Florida and it's above Florida because there's Flora, Bama, they say. So boom. There we go. I think we got this right. I mean, I think it's, I think it's just two states that they had to go through. But that's enough. That's enough states. That's a lot of states. And it's hot there. So it's more. Oh, Jesus, there was a fight on the way. You think their air conditioning works well in their car. You think it was their car? Think it was their car. Whatever they fucking car they do. Yeah, there's definitely fighting too. I think right there, 2016, they returned to Charleston together, but then, but then they separate. Okay. Okay. They separate car. He's living in a motel that Daniel pays for with his army benefits, which is the weird thing too. He gets his money, gives it to her. She stays at a motel. He stays at a homeless camp on Rivers Avenue. So I don't know what that is. That's what I'm saying. Maybe he's trying to make up for attacking her with a knife, but I'm not living in a homeless camp paying for someone else's motel work saying that for somebody else to have a roof. Fuck that. And I'm under an easy up. Fuck. No way. They maintained a relationship somehow. Like I said, she used his VA benefits to pay for her motel rooms, 2017 in January, Daniels arrested for criminal domestic violence again against carmy. So this is not good. These are, this is a very volatile cocktail involving gasoline and lit matches and all sorts of ships. Certainly an open flame. There's an open flame. It's, it's a torch, but it's an open flame. While he was in jail, carmy gets kicked out of a motel because he stopped paying for it because he's in jail and he can't do it. So that is the bummer about relying on somebody else to pay your bills. That's tough. So she gets kicked out of that. She ends up going into a detox center of the Palmetto behavioral health facility, which is a detox slash mental health facility that you apparently don't have to have any money to go to. But if she was in the army, she should have some kind of benefit. I would think that would cover this. I'm not sure how this works, but a palmetto is a palm tree. And do you know that palmetto bugs are cockroaches? Did you know that's what they're called? And that's they look like cockroaches. Yeah. That's what they are. Palmetto bugs are cockroaches. It just sounds more charming. Yeah. It sounds in a palm tree. It sounds regional. It sounds regional and like a classy cockroach. Oh, no. It's a cockroach. It came in from the shore. He's good. It's a cockroach that drinks Corona. It's going to say he's got like a little cockroach, a little captain's hat on a little captain's hat cigarette holder in a Corona. That's just fucking with the buddy that that cuts lines. Yeah. And another buddy who's got a boat that he lets him borrow, which is nice. You know what I mean? That's a palmetto bug. That's a palmetto bug. We just figured it out. That's fucking beautiful. So while she's in rehab detox whenever the fuck he is living at a homeless camp behind a Walmart. Now it's fun. It was on like it was right right now. Now he's moved into the one behind the Walmart. Oh boy. Sounds like that's going to get broken up any day. Number one. Number two. When they catch them digging through the trash can. Yeah. And also I would assume asking people for shit in the parking lot too, which is. And eating the baloney trash can on your stupid opinions. One of the Walmart reviews we did that one time. The main complaint from everybody was you can't get to your car without having eight people come up to you and ask you for shit. Like they're like, you have to throw your shit in your trunk so fast because swarms of people come up. The Palmetto bugs they come to you. I broke my big screen, thrown it in my fucking envoy. Yeah. Just I don't care. Hurry up. They're coming. Fucking crap. Slap the trunk on it. I don't care. We got to get out of here. He's lighting a meth pipe as he's walking up to me. As Daniel as we know, you know, homeless people find, but Daniel's like smoking meth behind the Walmart. It's a different kind of homeless. He's a dangerous homeless. Yeah. He's desperate now. Exactly. So she's in there. Now at the Palmetto Behavioral Health Institute, Carmi meets another woman here, not in a romantic way, just as a friend. Just a pal. Named Jordan Brooke Lumb here. That's not how she, her birth name is Patricia Ann Hill. So I don't know where she got Jordan Brooke Lumb from, but that's what it is here. She was born in Pima County, Arizona actually. Is that right? He's two years older than God named Trish from Southern Arizona say it ain't so. Trish Ann Hill from Southern Arizona. That's her. Trish Ann from fucking Florence, Arizona. Yep. She's, it's where she's from Pima County. Her parents are Carl Hill, who's a US Air Force veteran. Yeah. He's a big veteran here and his mom is Ingrid and she was from South Carolina. So that's how she kind of went back and forth. She apparently Patricia Ann Hill had gotten married and then following her divorce. I don't know if this was like a getaway from her ex-husband thing or whatever it was, but she changed her entire name after her divorce. She changed it to Jordan Brooke Lumb. It's got to be to escape him, right? So this is basically the Julia Roberts movie where she was the one Julia Roberts movie where she had like a boyfriend who was real mean to her and he had a mustache, which in the early nineties meant he was mean. And then, and then he, she like, was, he would like beat her up. All I remember about the movie is she had to have the labels facing out, I don't know everything or else he would freak out and beat the shit out of her if like there was a soup can with a fucking crooked label in the cabinet. Look at the back of the hunts to made a pay. Doesn't want to see the ingredients. I don't even know what it is. I need to peruse it. So all I remember is that and then she ran away to some small southern town where she was like, you know, whatever, and then he found her and was like stalking her around the town. Is it fried green tomatoes or something like that? It's certainly not fried green tomatoes. No. Is it sleeping with the enemy? I think it's sleeping with the enemy is the name of it. If I'm not a stick and I'm pretty sure that's what it is. I thought you were being sarcastic. It was a big movie giant hit movie, actually, like a huge giant hit movie and she had to have the labels turned down. She had to. Yeah. That's what I remember is that he knew she knew he was stalking her when she went into her cabinets and all her labels were turned forward. She was like, oh my God, and freaked out and he was in the house and I think she killed him or something. Sounds like a Rebecca DeMornay movie. Is she busy? I think she was probably rocking the cradle at that point. She was the hand rocking the cradle and then this happened. I love that lady. So rad. Hey, everybody, just going to take a break from the show to tell you about a new sponsor, Quince. Oh, quince.com, q-u-i-n-c-e.com. Absolutely, head there, find yourself some real nice stuff. Get your wardrobe kicking here. You can do it with quince. It's very awesome. The weather's getting a little warmer. Time to kind of put down the jackets, maybe get some shorts and some t-shirts and stuff like that. I went and I got, see, I'm smart too. I got a jacket next year because I got a suite like leather like racing jacket. Yeah. Amazing. It was $199. It was $199. Way more than that in the store because I bought jackets like that. Mine was kind of worn out, so I'm going to get myself a real nice one. Get it in the off season two. That's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. Now I'm going back. I'm going to look for some summer stuff. That's how you do it here. Because quince, they have it all. They have all the seasonal must-haves like 100% European linen shirts from $30 for performance polos and versatile flow knit active wear. They got it all. Upgrade your wardrobe. Go to quince.com/smalltownmurder for free shipping on your water and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/smalltownmurder to get free shipping and 365 day returns, quince.com/smalltownmurder. This show, Small Town Murder is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com. Absolutely, and there can be stress everywhere, everybody. We know it. We all carry all these different stressors, big and small. Things you can't control. Yeah. Things you can't control. There's stuff going on with your family like us. We are on the road. We're traveling. Stuff goes on at home. These are stressors. You can't. It's hard. It's really difficult out there. And when we keep them bottled up, it will start to affect you negatively. Sure. Your mental health. Your mental health. Physical health. It's just not healthy for you. So therapy is a great place to get these things off your chest. Try to maybe help you figure out how to work through what's weighing you down. And in the end, try and feel better. That's the oral after here, so. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient and flexible. It's to your schedule. You just have to fill out a brief questionnaire, get you matched up with a licensed therapist. Here's the best part. You can switch therapists at any time with no additional charge. No extra fee. That's huge. You can keep, yeah, you find someone that you can vibe with and then you're going to be much better off. So get it off your chest with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/smalltownmurder today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com/smalltownmurder. So here's Jordan Brooklum. February of 2017, they're both in rehab. That's how they meet. Jordan's in rehab and is so is Karmy and she invites Jordan invites Karmy and Karmy's pets as well. She's got dogs and shit like that. Invites her to move in with her to her house and live there rent free. You can just live with me. You and all your pets. You and all your pets. I looked up the house. It's at 199 and Gore away in Somerville, three bedroom, two bath, 2,058 square foot nice house. Jesus. It's a very nice house. And this lady was living there all by herself. If you and your pets, please, well, by all means. So they hit it off these two. As roommates, they're like Laverne and Shirley, they're having a good time. But it doesn't take long for Karmy to not be so high on Jordan, not been late anymore. Oh, really? Yeah. Not the other way around, you would imagine. Wow. Get the fuck out of my house with your meth pipe. We were just in rehab. No, actually, it's the other way around. In the first month of living together, they started fighting all the time. They drank was the problem, too. They got out of rehab. They started drinking. They would both drink, and then they'd fight with each other and have a big argument. Such a big mistake for any sort of substance abuse. Oh, Christ. Go to another one. You know what I mean? That's just what they do. Oh, I love them. Karmy will basically seems to be, we'll do whatever's around. So if there's booze, she'll drink booze. If there's pills, she'll do pills. If she gets a crack of meth, great. We'll do that. And that's a woman who's licensed to be a traveling nurse. That's great. That's what she was doing for a living. I don't know if her license is active at this very moment in time, but I would... Is there a meth test involved there? Just want to make sure you're not on meth. Nothing else. Everything else is fine, but just make sure you're not smoking meth. That's a little much, we feel like. Dabbling in crack. Make sure you're not doing either of those. That's either one. Either are. Two of the baselines. There are probably pills, because you'll have more access to them than other people. Any sort of heroin based something, let's not have you on that. So Karmy, by the way, is still always talking to Daniel and hanging out with Daniel. They're still... He quit him. He got out of jail for beating her up again. She would text him, Karmy would text Daniel referring to Jordan as a psychotic bitch. And she's an awful fucking bitch. I can't live with her. She's terrible. Blah, blah, blah. You're living there for free. You're living there for free. You should probably just try to make it good. You're allowed to leave. She... Karmy didn't like to clean. She wasn't a big cleaner. It wasn't big on housework, and she said that Jordan would ask her to clean and it pissed her off. Well, you're living there rent free with your dogs. Probably do some chores. Yeah. You're not a 13 year old get her something, this is your adult. Pick up a mop, for fuck's sake. She said that Jordan treated her like a maid. She said she treats me like a maid. You're living there for free, man. That's the thing, yeah. You got to clean wherever you live. Wherever you live, you got to clean. And if someone's paying all your bills, you should probably clean a little extra. A little extra. Yeah. A little extra. Oomph. There. Emphasis. Wipe the rim of the toilet every day. I don't know. Give it one of those. Clean up your dog shit in the yard. Things like that. Yeah. So Jordan would also listen to, she would complain anyway. I don't know if this is true or just meth paranoia, but Karmy would complain that Jordan would listen to her phone calls. And like, she's listening, which is a meth thing that paranoia is big, that everybody's out to get me. And she was, Karmy said she's suspicious of her for listening to my phone calls. Jordan, by the way, in addition to letting Karmy stay there for free, with her fucking dogs and everything else, also would loan Karmy money all the time. Okay. Yeah, loan her money, and then Karmy would keep asking for money repeatedly, and then Jordan eventually said, no, Jordan's got to have some kind of income stream, because she lives in a nice house that's apparently hers. It sold in early 2014. So that's when I think that's her house. She bought it then. And so I don't understand here, like she's got to have some kind of money. She's kind of forward to loan her money. She can pay her bills. Yeah. Doesn't make a lot of sense. So Karmy gets very pissed off that she won't loan her money anymore. Listen, fun is fun, but you know, Karmy got to get some some fucking crack here. Karmy needs her crack fix. So she wants to stay in your house for free with her pets, not clean a goddamn thing, and also give me money, please. She wants to be a teenager, basically. Yeah. She wants to be a teenager or a sugar baby. Yeah. And she's 50 years old, so it's like, oh my God, come on now, this ship is, this ship has certainly sailed. So then Jordan started getting phone calls from, you know, people that wouldn't identify themselves demanding that she give them money. Give us money. No. Who are you? I won't tell you. Give us money. Goodbye. Okay. Later on, it's found out that those phone calls are from Karmy and Daniel. Right. Yeah, trying to get her to give them money. So Jordan also thought and rightfully so, because it was true that Karmy was sneaking Daniel into the home. Daniel wasn't allowed to come in. That was part of the deal. Yeah, because we've been to rehab together. I know who you did meth with. Yeah. Not only that. You guys fight. That's what it is. He just got arrested in January for beating the shit out of her and he's like, Jordan doesn't want, you know, violence in her home, which is perfectly reasonable. It's a very reasonable thing. I've heard nothing's psychotic bitch about her yet. But yeah, no, she seems pretty fucking reasonable. So actually pretty nice and accommodating, honestly, like a real nice person. Pretty amazing friend to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Keeping Karmy from living in the street, living behind the Walmart and fucking husband. So I wouldn't let somebody that's done meth stay in my home. No, currently covering from a problem with it. No, I'm going to bring in my meth addict husband who beats the shit out of me too. Is that cool? And your dogs? And my dogs. Yeah. They have a lot of skin conditions and stuff. Yeah. Like, I would wipe down surfaces that they sit on and things like that. The other one, his asshole leaks also so that you're going to find trails to just put it on everything. He really likes to rub it. So you got to get in there. Now, Karmy here, they're fighting a lot. Now, Karmy and Jordan and Jordan got angry that Daniel was coming over and said, you got to get out. No more. This is crazy. I'm trying to recover and have a life here and, you know, you're not helping. So Karmy said, no, please, please, come on. She said, I'll be better. Karmy said, don't kick me out. I'll do stuff. She said, I'll even tell you what, I'll take the car, I'll go by, I'll do the grocery shopping for you. So you don't have to do right now. I'm going to start right now with my chores. Okay. Start now. Do all the grocery shopping. Karmy didn't come back for hours and hours and hours way longer than it takes the grocery shop. She just left. She didn't come back till tonight. She's left and Jordan didn't know where the fuck she was. So Jordan called the police. Stolen car. This lady just took my car and fucking left and God knows where she took it. She's probably taking it to the homeless camp to get him and then over to get mad. Check behind the Walmart first. Yeah, there's going to be jizz all over it by the time she gets it back. Oh, boy. Yeah, it's going to be gross. Cause those couples that fight with each other and do smoke meth together and all that, they also are very horny for each other. Well, they have to do that way. They can make terrible kids. They can't take care of. They're high on meth. Let's fucking recreate, procreate, please recreate. No, that's not the word I'm looking for. So at that point, also, Karmy started asking Daniel, you, why don't we, you should beat the shit out of Jordan. You clearly have no problem beating up women. So yeah, if you could beat her up, that would be great. Now what we should do is you should come over, beat the living shit out of her, then we'll take her designer clothes and sell them. Is this the methiest plan ever? Yeah, this is not good. You're going to get caught for this, you think? And you're going to get $28. What are you not going to get anything out of this for designer clothes? You're going to go to Buffalo Exchange. They're going to give you 10% of what they're going to sell it for. And they're going to give you that 10% is in credit to the store, you're getting other clothes for these clothes, you know, which then you're going to have to sell your credit for math at half the rate of price of that. So now you've broken it down even further. All right. You've stepped on the profit so much, you're getting $11. You've watered it way down. So that was one plan that they came up with, but that never really happened that you could Daniel come over, beat her up, take the clothes. So then this is, they've lived together for like a month for Christ's sake. And this is all happening in the period of a month, a month and a half, which is missing someone off that much, that fast. That fucking fast. There was no honeymoon period where like, Karmie would do stuff and be fine. And then she stopped doing stuff little by little. She just was like, Hi, I'm here with all my shit. I'm not doing anything. My crack had abusive husbands coming over at eight. So if you could clear out of the living room, thanks. Dropped her bags on the horse and put those away. Put those away. We're going to fuck on your couch. And also my dog's got skin condition. So I told you that. Watch out for that. So late March, 2017, Jordan calls the cops on Karmie for some reason. So this is now two times she's had to call the cops on her already in a month. That's a lot here. Then this really pissed Karmie off, obviously. So she wrote tons of text messages to Jordan, just telling her what a bit she is and how horrible she is and shit. And also put up Matt, all sorts of Facebook posts about what a bit your roommate was, which is. Right. I love how in 2017 by that, you can, it wasn't just she told her friend on the phone. It's fucking to everybody. She told everybody's a plot. Yeah. On the Facebook. Everybody she's known since the seventh grade, she told. So April 2nd, 2017, I guess Karmie's truck was at a hotel that she was at at one point. It had been sitting there. So it was Daniel's job to pick up the truck from the motel and drive it, when am I saying hotel? It's motel for sure. And go to Jordan's house with the truck to bring the truck to me. Yeah. So I have a car. So on the morning of April 2nd, 2017, text messages show that they were fighting with each other. They're mad at Jordan for calling the police and that, you know, they're going back and forth. She's a bitch. She's that. And so you are. She said, get my truck and come here. And that way you can help me fight with Jordan, basically. That'll help bring over another asshole who's not even invited to help. So however, though, on the way there, because before the drive, Daniel smoked Matt crack and drank a bunch. Hell yeah. He's he's really fucking getting really deep into this night. Yeah, he's ready to go. So he crashed the truck on the way there because he's all fucked up on three different things, none of which make you a better driver, by the way, crack or booze. He was trying to balance it like make it perfect now he fucked up and he hit a tree with it. Yeah. So he crashed and all that kind of shit and finally shows up in the afternoon from the morning. He's wearing a little bit and he finally shows up in the afternoon, somehow he didn't get arrested. Yeah. How's he? How's he there? Must have crashed in a rural enough area that nobody noticed is all I can imagine here. So by the time he gets to the house, Jordan is dead. What? She's like, okay, now we got a different problem. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. A lot of stuff happened in the meantime. Yeah. Okay. Let me fill you in. First off, you missed everything. And she shows him the Jordan's body and she has, as we'll find out more specifically later on, 113 sharp and blunt force wounds, 113. That's so much energy sustained attack with multiple weapons. Oh my. As well. This is to her head, neck, torso, arms, you name it, just a whole body, a knives hammer and a knives, a hammer and a screwdriver. We're all used in this different knives too. She was picking up shit, whatever she could find and plunging it into this person, apparently. So over the next two days, Carmi and Daniel spend in the house with the dead body, with Jordan's dead body, shrinking, taking pills, smoking meth and fucking trying to figure out how to clean this up, basically. Wally, woman is. Decompose. Turning to the earth in there. That's crazy. That's the woman whose house you're at, by the way, who owns this motherfucker. So this is wild and they figure the best way to concoct a plan is to get real high on meth and booze first and then do it and take a bunch of pills. You can't even drive a car that way. Yeah, he couldn't even make it across. No shit. So April 4th, 2017, a couple of days later, they're in the house. Now they've been in the house getting fucked up together for two days. What do you think's happening? They're fighting now. Oh, it's getting so bad. They've been up for two fucking days with a dead body and all this anxiety and all this stress and all this type of shit. So many bad ideas have been, Oh God, I would, I would not pay to be to be there listening to all of these bad ideas. I want footage. I would love. I would love surveillance video of. 2000. How do they not take this? Oh my God, of them in the, oh, there's recordings, don't worry. Don't worry. They'll be recording, Jimmy, but I want the full video of them in the living room trying to figure out arguing with each other about ideas. No, that's a bad idea. You're dumb in that. No, but you're an idiot and go amazing. Who's, who's best idea was what? So by April 4th, she starts turning her, her vitriol on her husband here and making threats against him that I'm going to blame you for this. And he better tread lightly because he can, he can clearly see what she's capable of. That's what I mean. So as a result, what he does is he makes a couple recordings and then slips out and calls 911. He's like, I got to cover my ass. Hey, wait, I was not here. I got. I'm fine. Yeah. You know how I wasn't here when, when you killed that girl, right? Say it, right? It wasn't. Not right. You say it out loud. Just say it, please. If you could just, remember when you killed that girl when I wasn't in the house? Remember that? I just showed up. Everyone I was fucked up, crashing your truck and use murdering people. Remember that? This guy just picture Kenny Powers for some reason from fucking eastbound and down. Just like, remember that? Remember when I was doing that? Remember that? I wasn't even here. I wasn't even here for that, right? He records two conversations. The first was Karmy talking about how he had wrecked her truck and complaining and he's trying to get her to that and she's like, and your fucking dumb ass is wrecking my fucking truck. And the second one was her admitting to murdering Jordan by herself. Perfect. Perfect. So he made the recording as soon as he was done making him. He packed up his shit and was like, I'll be back in a minute and then went and called 911 instead. I'm gonna go get us some meth and then I'll be your pussy for seven hours. That's going to be amazing. Where do you hear how she got him to come over to help with this? That's even better. Oh my God. So 911, he stay, you know, hello 911 and he said, there's been a murder. That's the first thing he said. There's been a murder. That's got to be a number one. His wife. He said his wife asked him to help clean up because she was going away for rehab and he knew something was wrong when he got there. He said, quote, I smelled something. She said, that's just old garbage decomposing body is never mistaken for old garbage. And by the way, you wouldn't smell something a few hours after somebody died probably. Maybe only smell blood. Maybe yes. If you'd smell something, but not like, Oh, what is that? That smell. And that quote, yeah, that's just the old garbage. Then she's like, Oh, by the way, we got to dispose of this body. He said this to the 911 operator. This is a transcript from 911 awesome quote. She showed me the body. It's in the garage. It's in a crate wrapped up in blankets. She said that she bludgeoned her in the head with a hammer a few times. Then she sliced her neck. Then she stabbed her a bunch, a bunch, yeah. She was drinking heavily. She was yelling, cussing and fussing, he said, cussing and fussing, she's just in there cussing and fussing boy. I tell you what, cussing and fussing, they said, where is she now? And she said, she's all drunk and she's cussing and fussing. That that was a. Drunk is a scum. Cussing and fussing. Cussing and fussing. She's harking and jerking and all kinds of different things. Houghton. Houghton, houghton, man, mussing and fussing. He said he didn't mean to help her try to cover the crime, but I guess he died dead. He said, quote, I didn't realize what I was cleaning up until it was too late. Are you kidding me? Idiot. A throat was cut. There was a fucking massive pool of blood. What did you think? What'd you say? I got my period late. Somebody was stabbed with screwdrivers and hit with hammers. There's blood. You know what? Blood is. It's a blood spatter on the wall. There's blood pooled on the floor. Where the fuck did all this blood come from? I spilled some fucking Hawaiian punch. What are we talking about? My tampon filled out and I stepped on it. That's not what happened. Boom. It exploded everywhere. It was like a grape. So he said, I didn't realize what I was cleaning up until it was too late. I was polishing some chairs and tables and stuff. The lady who lived there was a real pigsty. This lady who lived there was a real pigsty. The person being described as a pigsty I've never heard before. I guess you can call someone a train wreck so why not a pigsty? They can be an event. They can be a place too. He then says, but what I'm wondering is, am I getting in trouble now too? Yes. That's a fun wonder. Short answer, yes. He said, I'm not sure who's going to be in trouble. The dispatcher said, I'm not sure who's going to be in trouble. I just take phone calls, yeah. So the police arrive. When they arrive, Karmy is, she's cussing and fussing all right. She's shit face drunk, ranting and raving, holding a large kitchen knife to her own throat, threatening to kill herself. If you don't get the fuck out of here, I'm going to kill myself. So policeman tries to persuade her to drop the weapon, but she just got more agitated. Just pissed her off more. She's all, you're not going to reason with her at this point. Well, they ended up kicking in the door and disarming her. So I think she tried, they kicked in the door. I think she tried to run down the hall or something and they tackled her and got the knife out of her hand type of deal. But they should have tased her. I feel like in this. That would be awesome. This is the ultimate. If she was just suicidal, it'd be one thing, you know, on a taser, but if she just killed someone and she's like, Adam, I'm fucking out, you tase you, here you go. Drop the knife. Drop the bolt. Let's fucking anything. Yeah, whatever. So that's what happened. The police would then ask her, where's Jordan? Where's your roommate? And she said, Oh, she's away at a detox facility in California. She won't be here for a couple of weeks. So she doesn't know. She won't be back is what she says for a while here. Yeah. She's completely unaware of what he's done. Yes. I have no idea. No clue. Daniel told me he was, she was in a rehab. I don't know what's going on, but the police then obviously it's been days now. So they smell Jordan pretty good and they go out in the garage and they find also, Daniel told them she's in the garage, they go out in the garage and they find her decomposing body wrapped in a blanket, putting a wooden crate. Just like Daniel said, they also find a bloody knife nearby. That's helpful. That's, yeah. It's real helpful. They could determine the body had been decomposing for a couple of days based on the smell and the bloat and all of that and the fucking condition of that body Jesus. Now shockingly, Karmy and Daniel have very different versions of what happened. Is that right? It's weird. Right? Strange. Here's Daniel. Daniel said here that after his truck wreck, during one of several phone calls with Karmy after the wreck, she casually mentioned on the phone call, quote, Oh, by the way, we've got to dispose of this body. Yeah. Like what are we doing? I don't know. We'll probably get pizza in that school. Yeah. Well, you want to stop there? That's all right. I suppose this body too on the way. Oh, all right. Yeah. Well, pencil at it. First things first, figure out dinner. Second thing. Dispose the body. Third thing. Get the dinner. Get the dinner. Yeah. Well, water it first and kill then dispose and pick it up when it's ready. That'll take the time. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about the safest sponsor ever. Simply safe, simply safe.com S-I-M-P-L-I safe.com. You know. If you're a small town murder listener, you know the world can be a dangerous and unpredictable place. 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The first thing, well, no, that's coming up later. The first thing is, I'll drop those charges against you from January. Better. Best blowjob ever. Yeah. I'll drop the charges. Then offered him, and he quotes, she said, "Just like this, pills, alcohol, and sex. We got pills, booze, and I'll fuck you." He's like, "See, a man can't resist that. Drop charges, booze, pills, and sex. We will dispose of a body for that. That's how pathetic we are." We're like, "All right, sounds good. You're going to be letting me do that thing I like to do. All right. Fine." He said that's why he went there. He said that Karmie told him that Jordan hit her. That's why Jordan had hit her, and then she said, "Well, I hit her back over the head with a hammer while she was sleeping." And then stabbed her in the neck and body because she was still moving after being bashed in the fucking head with a hammer. She did this because Jordan hit her. And her dog. She said that she was holding Karmie hostage, which is the opposite. She wanted Karmie to leave, and she said she was hitting Karmie's dog all the time. She was beating her dog senseless, so I had to kill her. Daniel said over the next couple of days, Karmie cleaned up the house, drank, took pills, discussed what to do with the body. They both helped. He helped her throw the Jordan in a crate in the garage, and Karmie then, two days after the death, this is on the fourth, Karmie drove Jordan's car to a grocery store and a liquor store to buy more cleaning supplies and, of course, more beer and liquor, because according to Daniel, when she returned, "Things went downhill quick." When she got drunk? Weird, right? Because they were frequently fighting, that's when he said he decided to record the conversations they were having on his phone to protect himself from being blamed for murder, because she's like, "I'll just say you did it. You beat me up. They'll just they'll believe you." They'll believe it. Yeah. So the body, like we said, autopsy of Jordan here, she had 113 wounds to her head neck. Chest and upper extremities. Dr. Batalis is the doctor here. He will testify later on that blood force trauma wounds to her head were consistent with her being struck by a hammer and were fatal, as were the sharp force injuries to her neck. She had holes in her skull. She had 19 stab wounds to her chest, which were knife wounds. There was no surviving any of these three attacks. This was just a messed up lunatic in a frenzy attack. Everything she hit her with was fatal. That is crazy. It's cut her throat, stabbed her, bashed her head in with a hammer. They also said the cause of death was a combination of blunt and sharp force wounds, and so there's that. Now, Carmi's got a much different version of what happened, surprisingly enough. Yeah. She said that Daniel arrived at the home, and once Daniel arrived at the home, they were going to go out together. She and Daniel are, oh no, she was going to go out with Jordan because she didn't want to go out with Daniel because she was mad at him because he wrecked her truck. Yeah. He crashed my truck. No bad guy. So she said she got in the shower, Carmi did, to prepare to go out for the night with Jordan. They're going to go hang out somewhere. She said that she heard while in the shower, you know, in the shower, you can hear only if it's very loud in your muffled shit, and you don't care anything about it because you're in the shower. I'm in the shower, I don't give a fuck. Don't care. Don't give a shit. What you doing out there? Soap behind my balls. I don't give a shit about what's going on. I'm going to get it out of my ass, and then I'm going, uh, go see what's wrong. So she said that she's in the shower. She could hear Jordan screaming, but she didn't think anything of it because this is great. Jordan often yelled at the neighbors or at her cat. Yeah, one full-throated yelling at your cat that someone could hear in the shower. What the fuck could a cat do cause that? So she said when, Karmie said when she got left the bathroom, Jordan was dead. Oh, then Karmie said that Daniel took her cell phone, disconnected all the landlines in the house and held Karmie hostage for multiple days by threatening her pets. If you run out of here, I'll kill your pets the second you leave. Kill them all. You know, so much so mean to her. She admitted, yes, I did go to the supermarket and the grocery store, but I only did it because of Daniel's request. And I couldn't just leave and go to the cops because he threatened to harm my pets if I called the police. So, you know, he's, the cops are going to be banging on the door. Well, he's just stabbing pets all around the house, come back and get a cat out from under the bed. Yeah. If it's a cat, they were safe. They never, you scare a cat. You won't see it for today. Yeah. You won't know where the hell it is. It'll be hiding like in a wall somewhere somehow. How did it get in there? So yeah, that's what she claimed after Daniel called 911 and directed the police to the house. They kicked in the door. Obviously, they indict. They indict her for murder. They're going to indict him as accessory after the fact because he has all these text messages of basically her saying very things that mean I killed this lady and you need to help me out. He did nothing about it. Yeah. And he wasn't even there. So they know that already. So, but they know that he went over there with the under the auspices of getting a blowjob and drugs. Yeah. Exactly. And that's fucking weird. If you know, there's a body there. Yep. That's accessory after the fact. Yeah. They said that's a criminal act at that point. Absolutely. You can't just clean up blood and get a blowjob and think you're fucking skating on shit. No. But during the trial, Karmie goes to trial and during the defense is opening, the defense says, look, there she's dead. Karmie was around. We understand this. She was definitely in the house. But the only thing that we're saying here is that it was Daniel that did it, not Karmie. So we're not saying Karmie's an angel. We're not saying she didn't clean up and all that, but she did it for Daniel because Daniel threatened her. She said, quote, this is the opening. We agree that the victim was brutally murdered. We agree that she had at least 90 wounds to her body, 113 to be exact. We agree with the prosecutor about her cause of death. Well, there's really no disagreeing about that. That's science. That's science. What are you going to say? Yeah. Are you a doctor? Probably not. Then shut the fuck up. You don't know what you're talking about? I'm not a doctor. And I know that there is nothing that causes all those wounds other than what happened. Naturally. No. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. We agree about where she was killed. We agree in general what the murder weapon was. And we agree that on April 4th, Daniel Nelson called police and reported a murder. We disagree about one thing. Who killed it. Yeah. That's it. Daniel testifies, obviously. He's the star witness because they make it, they make a deal with him. Yeah. And she said that he on the stand, he said, Karmie had asked him to harass and assault Jordan even to go as far as to start planning Jordan's murder. And Daniel said he never agreed to help kill Jordan, but he admitted that she might have believed he agreed to do so. I might have said it together to shut the fuck up is what he basically said. Yeah. If she's going to be persistent, yeah. Tell me, tell me a million times that you didn't lie to a woman for sex. Yeah. Yeah. No, shit. So Daniel admitted to that. He admitted that he had been charged with an accessory after the murder, after the fact of the murder. He also said, cause on cross examination, you have charges here for domestic violence against Karmie that's coming up on lawful use of 911 and filing a false report. So that's all of his charges that are pending. And he also said that he had provided law enforcement with multiple versions of his involvement in the murder and his attempt to make himself look less guilty. He said that's what it was. I didn't want to look as bad. He said, including telling 911 in the police that he did not know Karmie had killed the victim when she asked him to come help clean the house. And he said that he, when he said he didn't know what he was cleaning up when in reality, he knew it was blood. He knew exactly what he was doing. She told him come over here and clean this fucking body up with him and he said, okay. And he ran over there and did blood. Now the photos here, they put in the state calls the medical examiner who performed the autopsy and they put these, they put out these photos for evidence and they end up letting in some very graphic photos, the judge does, especially exhibit 75 and 76 or close up photos of Jordan's quote gruesome head and neck wounds and they show partial decomposition of the body. These aren't just a whole thing. These are close ups. These are photos from good Lord state exhibit 77 depicts the victim lying on her stomach, showing stab wounds on her back and her swollen head but does not display the partial decomposition or her more gruesome wounds. The doctor testified this photo show fatal blunt force wounds on the head where the quote skull had been shattered away. He said you can actually see the see to the brain there. That's from the hammer. So the photo showed several sharp force wounds on Jordan's neck, namely that her throat had been cut. They noted that the photo showed some green discoloration on her head where she was decomposing. They had a diagram of the victim's injuries that they made and they could test to testify about everything here. So this is a pretty graphic testimony, obviously, they objected to all the autopsy photos noting that they were extra gruesome and would inflame the passions of the jury, which is the legal language you have to use in this situation, but that they could testify using a diagram. But the state asserted the photos were probative to the victim's cause of death and would aid in the description of the wounds to show them. The trial court admitted all the photos based on the doctor's testimony and the fact that he says it would help him show the jury the cause of death. Okay, prosecution and closing. She testifies as well, saying how terrible Daniel was and made her do all this stuff. He's a monster. The prosecution says it was Carmi Nelson who had motive, opportunity and the temper and a desire to kill Jordan Lum. Yeah. It's her. Daniel had nothing with the fuck here. So verdict comes in. She has found guilty of murder. Yeah. Yes. During sentencing, Carmi's daughter spoke on her behalf. She's got a kid. Oh boy. She's got a kid from before. She was 33 when she met him. She said, I want you to know she's a good person. She's a giving person. Please be strong. That's what she said. Then Carmi said back to her daughter. Please be strong. God will take care of everything. Oh boy. And maybe she's right. Cause the judge says you ma'am may fuck off life in prison. So there you go. All taken care of we are now safe. We're all safe, the prosecutor afterwards said the jury saw right through Carmi Nelson's lies and attempts to blame her husband for this heinous crime. Her recorded statements two days after the murder and her text messages and the days leading up to the murder clearly show her hatred and vitriol towards Jordan Lum and left no doubt as to who was responsible for her brutal murder. So yeah, saying she's going to spend the rest of her life behind bars. Daniel on the other hand, he'll be in a homeless camp at no time. How long does he get? Well, he is pleads guilty to accessory after the fact and he receives you, sir, may fuck off five years. He's already out. Oh, well out. Yeah. Cause that includes time served while he's waiting to testify and all that stuff. He was out. He was out in time for fucking COVID. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, he was. Jesus. Carmi had a quick appeal that was in the conviction was upheld on appeal in 2020 a there's a show called fear thy roommate, which only had eight episodes. I don't think it worked real well. And it's a show about people murdering the roommates, which I mean, that's a pretty specific niche to get into for murder. You went, I want to open it up. Imagine if we only did one very specific kind of murder and be really weird roommate murder. Fuck man. Just roommate murder. We'd be done by now. Yeah. We would have been done fucking Jesus within six months. So August 2023 comes around. Yeah. Carmi appeals to the state Supreme Court based on the admission of extra gruesome photographs. And the Supreme Court says that the admission of these excessively gruesome photos unnecessarily created the potential for the jury to convict Carmi of the murder based on inflamed emotions in a case where the jury was provided with undisputed evidence as to how the victim died, as well as ample evidence that she'd been killed with malice, whether by Carmi or Daniel. The potential for a verdict based on emotion was amplified by the fact that the jury was informed that Daniel had also been charged in connection with the case, but only faced an accessory after the fact of murder. They say we believe the doctor's testimony as to the victim's injuries could have properly established how the victim was killed and that the victim was killed with malice negating the evidentiary value to be gained from the autopsy photos, also saying that the prosecutors had established the malice element in other ways, including the carmy's disparaging texts about Jordan Lum days before she was killed testimony that Carmi Nelson and asked her husband to harass an assault and a recording that Daniel took of his wife saying she attacked the victim while she was on the couch and kept beating her after she fell to the ground, then stabbed her 90 times. So they said the fact that the medical examiner testified that he believed the autopsy pictures would better help the jury understand the injuries wasn't enough. They found they said we believe the average juror could understand just from the doctor's testimony that the victim had died as a result of being bludgeoned in the head with a hammer, having your throat cut and being stabbed multiple times in the chest. We note these photos provide no insight into as to who killed the victim. In this instance where the photos were not needed to prove an issue in the case, the state should have heated our warning in another case to resist pushing the envelope on a missibility to gain victory, which was likely already assured, reversed, what? Not only sends conviction thrown the fuck out just because of the wow, they have to do it all over again. They have to retry her if they want. And this is rough because you also have a crackhead guy with domestic violence. Yeah, things and you know, she can say, Oh, you know, I was scared of him. That's a big deal. So they're worried about it. Then she makes a deal finally to avoid a retrial. And that is in March of 2024. So very recently, my God, yesterday, she pleads, she pleads guilty this time and is sentenced to an agreement here with the state and the judge honors the agreement. You ma'am may fuck off 30 years. Oh boy, but she will have to serve 30 years before she's getting out. She's 80. She's getting out after. Yeah, in her 80s, because now she's, I think it's like 50, she'll be like 85, I think. Oh no, she gets credit for the few years she's already served. So she'll be 80. She'll be 80. She'll be 80 when she gets out. Yeah. If she makes it that long, no, now Jordan Brooke Hill, alum here, Hill's her original name, she is buried at the North Charleston County, South Carolina, the Carolina Memorial Park in North Charleston. So she's there. Now the house at 199 Angora, where all this horror happened, sold in 2018 and sold the next year. What? It's still, they didn't knock it down. They just fucking repainted. What they sell it for? It was sold in 2018 for 277,500. $300,000 for a murder house for a murder house. The population was booming. So people were like, fuck it, we'll repaint. We can get a deal. 20 grand off a murder house. Yeah, chick was murdered there, but that's fine, right? We need a bargain. So right now it's currently worth like 400 something thousand to this house. And there's also, and this confused, if you're looking up this case, look out for Carmi Nelson, who is Carmi Shiano Nelson, who is a ballet dancer and apparently a really good like soloist ballet dancer who at the age of 12 was accepted to the Kirav Academy of Ballet and attended the year round boarding school there. She graduated high school early and continued her training with the Boston Ballet and has attended summer programs everywhere on the face of the fucking earth. This is professionally with the festival ballet Providence Richmond Ballet, American Contemporary Ballet as a soloist and the Columbia City Ballet for 10 seasons. So amazing. The complete opposite of the other Carmi Nelson, like a driven, successful, I assume not high on meth and booze. Her husband probably doesn't live in a homeless camp behind Walmart. Yeah, it's probably probably pays her own rent. It probably pays her own rent with all that. I don't know what kind of how lucrative ballet is, but she probably at least enough to pay the rent, I would think. So there you go, everybody, that's Summerville, South Carolina and quite the tale of just craziness. Imagine if you have an infestation of Palmetto bugs, then an infestation of Carmi, of a Carmi. Yeah, an army of Carmi's, a Carmi of one, I don't even want a Carmi of one, yeah. So it's a terrible, and Daniel's not great either, they're both too terrible. People got together and we're even more terrible, they're awful. So if you like that show, tell the world about it, get on whatever app you're listening on and give us a review. It does help tremendously. I can't tell you how much I don't know why, but it does. It's their weird algorithm and all of them help drive you up the charts and then people see the show. So do that. So head over to shutupandgivememurder.com, tickets for live shows available right now for the rest of the year and get them because they're going fast, they're shows in November that are sold out. So do that, Durham May 31st, you are up next and then Nashville, you're sold out the next night. Also get your tickets to Austin, there's a few left in Oklahoma City, Kansas City, we added more because those sold out. 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We're going to talk about theme park disasters again, I don't know why they're so funny because they're sad as shit, but they're so awful, they're so awful, but so interesting. So we'll talk about those then for small-town murder, we are going to talk about the craziest execution methods in history. People have had huge imaginations on how to really hurt people before they kill them and we'll talk all about it and we'll go back deep in history. That's patreon.com/crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show, so do that. In addition, make sure to listen to our other two podcasts, Crime in Sports, which I'm telling you, don't have to like sports, just check out, start with Joe Peppetone, episode one, very recently a three-parter and holy shit, you'll never go back, you'll be all crime in sports or forever if you hear that, then you definitely need to check out your stupid opinions, which we hate to brag, we don't like the pat ourselves on the back, but it's the funniest fucking hour you're going to find. It's a great goddamn show, people's annoying reviews and we just make fun of everything, so that's a lot of fun. And to that, keep coming back and hanging out with us, you want to follow us on social media, we are @smalltownmurger on Instagram and you'll find us everywhere. That and you want to find us, drop down menu, shut up and give me murder.com. It's all right there. That said, thank you so much everybody and until next week, it's been our pleasure. 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