Showdown
Showdown Episode 65 5-20-24
[music] Welcome to Showdown. I'm Mark Casen and it is Monday Ray Hartman. Yes. Yeah, and that's of course maybe the last day of the trial before the summation. Right, I haven't heard what happened today. Oh, lots going on. This Robert Costello was brought in to be a witness. And you know, it's so funny. You got two different worlds out here. Here's you know. And one is Fox where right now while the trial's on, they're giving weather reports because they don't want anybody to know about the trial. And then of course, MSNBC has got like 5,000 legal analysts there, top prosecutors, brilliant legal scholars, everybody that you could find that knows anything. And you know, that's the contrast. But so what they're basically saying is that Trump and his attorneys are so desperate at this point that they figured, well, let's take a shot at this Costello who can say, and not even necessarily with any honesty, but he can say that the conversation between Cohen and the other Ye who, I forget what, but anyway, that it was, they had nothing to do with Trump. And of course, Cohen said that he actually spoke with Trump. But the point is it doesn't even matter because all of this is a waste of time. Everything has been corroborated with other evidence. So, you know, but I'll tell you this, you're running for Congress in the second congressional district against Ann Wagner. And here's the thing, I think you've got the best chance of any Democrat in memory of winning that seat. I guess probably of, you know, Joan Kelly Horne was probably the last one. You know, she's still going strong. I see her. She's amazing. She's actually working for the county executive sire and event recently. Yeah, but I am running for Congress in the industry. So, you know, if you were even going to get around to mentioning that, yeah, no, you know, had to get that in there. And I think you've got the best chance because I think women are going to come out in such numbers. And again, I'm sure you know that at the Missouri legislature, they did everything to try to stop the ballot issue in November on abortion. And they didn't do it, which is so good because all those women who come out to vote for women's health are going to be voting for you. Well, that's the theory of the case. I think I'd like to think this is my first time running. You know, after 50 years in the media, I just felt like it's a I really felt like it's a do I don't want it to sound pompous, but it's almost a patriotic duty. If you're in the public eye and you have the ability to do it, we're at a point, I think, in our democracy, where people really have to take a stand about whether we're going to keep one. And certainly, this is the first general election in which women's rights, particularly in places like Missouri, have really been obliterated by the Supreme Court. It used to be, well, you got Roe v. Way, we got to protect women's rights. Now it's talking about restoring them. And that's a it's not the only issue, but it's a big issue in this race. And I think you're right. That's that issue offsets the advantage of incumbency and the money that Ann Wagner has. And I think, but I'm also talking about just the idea. And I was doing a speech tonight in Franklin County. I'm all over the district. Sure. Talking about the need for someone who is there and listening to people, again, I don't want to sound like I don't have a positive message because I do think it's important now as a Democrat to have a positive message about health care and about tax fairness and the environment and a lot of issues that are important, obviously choice we talked about. But there's also the fact that Ann Wagner has been in the district. If you can imagine this 12 years, never debated an opponent, never had a town hall, which is really more significant than that. And really doesn't ever interact spontaneously. There's a lot of photo ops. I'm honored. I've been in our new email forever. It does a lot of photo ops with anybody that drops by the office. But I don't think people want government by photo op. And I think having somebody, and in my case, I think the biggest compliment I sometimes get when I do get a compliment, Donnie Burke from about 37 years, is people come up and say, you know, I don't disagree with you on a lot of things, but I like what you say or how you say it. And that's, I think that's sort of my brand, I guess, is telling what I believe to be the truth and not sure your coat and it, not spinning it. And being decent to people because, you know, this whole business of everybody hating each other is, is, first of all, it's lunacy. Secondly, it doesn't accomplish a thing, nothing. I mean, anybody that thinks that they don't like us because, you know, maybe we're too far to the left, what's that accomplishing? Why not, why not take a position on something? But instead, they're all caught up in the idea that they support this con artist who honestly, if not for his 10 years on television, in which essentially he, it's sort of like the Marcus Welby thing, you know, they, they think that, that, you know, that because you're on TV, that you could take out somebody's appendix. But Robert Young couldn't do that for you. And, and, and, and Donald Trump can't run your business, right, or the country. And I'm not spending a whole lot of time on Trump, to be honest with you, because I, I think the two, what I like to, to, when people ask me, or when I describe Donald Trump, I use two words, reprehensible and predatory. Now, the reason I chose those two words as a journalist, I'm been kind of conditioned to either stealing other people's words or at least quoting them. And in this case, those were the words that Ann Wagner used on an October of 2016, while she was making the case, and she was one of the only members of her party to do it. She was making the case for why Donald Trump should be removed from the ticket as a result of Access Hollywood, and the grab them by the blank, uh, uh, tape. And she said Mike Pence should be our, our standard bear. And she said those words about him. Now, somehow the day before the election, she had an epiphany and decided he was okay. But I think that's the kind of thing, more than whether there were some, it's for Trump or Biden or whatever, people are tired of people that flip-flop like that. And, and, and now of course she talks about Donald Trump as if he was, you know, Abe Lincoln. I mean, and it's like, you know, I think we've all seen pretty much every day of Donald Trump's life, unfortunately, for the last seven and a half years, eight years. And I don't know about you. I haven't seen it. If, if, for those of us that thought he was reprehensible to use her word, I haven't seen anything really changed her view about that. And, and look, I, I'm not, it's not just a campaign. Obviously people know what I think about that. And I think it is important that we have a member of Congress to keep not to enable him if he were to be elected, which is certainly a possibility. I happen to be thinking President Joe Biden's is fine. And, um, but, you know, either way, the people of second district still need somebody sticks up for. And, and I, you know, there's a big difference in this that really goes beyond ideology, I think. Well, it's far beyond just ideology because if, if we were talking about taxes versus government intervention, I mean, that would be a whole different ball game would be a whole different lifetime. I mean, this is all about what you said. It's about democracy. I mean, over the weekend, Trump, and that's, you know, it's, it's hard not to bring him up. You know, he's talking about running now for a third term. He hasn't even gotten a second term yet. Oh, he's blessed to change it. Well, yeah, I mean, he's, he's not, I don't think there's much likelihood that he will leave on his own volition at any point. I mean, unless, I mean, he will, he'll only leave on his own volition. He will not leave. Um, I don't think there's any reason to believe that either there won't be a 20, 28 election for some reason or he'll, you know, I, you know, and clearly he is, he is by law and not allowed to fund for not, but laws don't matter to him. I mean, that's no. In fact, when you're running on being, you're raising money off of being indicted 91 times, that sort of speaks for itself. And again, I, you know, I think, um, people are worn out over that. But I think that again, all politics are local. And I can tell you this from being out campaigning already, which is a new experience. I've had a number of people tell me that they would vote for Trump, but they also vote for me because they don't like, you know, whatever they, they have issues with their congresswoman. And, and, uh, you know, I'm not out, uh, certainly pushing that as a ticket, but I don't think to your point earlier about being nice to people, I think people are really tired of Democrats or Republicans who just despise the other side just for existing. And I'm very proud of my Donnybrook family, which keeps in, please keep watching this. I mean, everybody's, so I kid them. I said, well, I didn't, now that I retired after 37 years, they really didn't have to call it the new improved Donnybrooks because I love, but no, but they, that's my family. And we always pride ourselves on disagreeing agreeably. And my dear, one of my dearest friends ever, Martin Dugan, a longtime provocateur. Sure. My biggest regret is he's not here to vote against me. Exactly. Martin died about 10 years ago at the young, 93 years young, I think he was. But he was one of my best friends. And he and I took our road show. We seriously disagreed on a lot. I mean, we really disagree. Sure. But, you know, I think that's what people want. People don't, you don't have to hate somebody because you disagree with them. And I just don't. And, you know, and I'm not, I'm not putting any words into Ann Wagner's mouth in that respect. But I do think that we, you know, if we, if I had three things I would do once I get to go, I'm hoping to get to Congress. First is to vote for Hakeem Jeffery's speaker. Sure. The second is to codify Roe v. Wade. There's a lot of the land. No questions asked. Straight up, reinstate Roe v. Wade protection, which is not that drastic. It's just restoring where we were two years ago by a national, by federal act. And then the third would be, and this one might surprise you, would to be and make an application. You have to be approved. And I might not get to something called the problem solvers caucus. And that's in the House of Representatives. It's about, I want to say 32 or so representatives evenly divided by between Democrats and Republicans. And they exist there, their whole, just what the name says, they work together quietly without a lot of fanfare to try to find common ground on issues. And I covered it a little bit when I worked for raw stories of journalists and I thought, this is where I'd like to be, is like, you know, even though I have not been known over the years as a centrist, time has moved me to the center from being a, you know, why to be, you know, I wouldn't think you're too close to the center, but that's why I'm a liberal. But I will tell you this, I think the role of a person in Congress is to find common ground, well, not to just wait for war. And that organ, which, and that's not something she's part of. It's something I'd love to, that would be a real aspiration to me. And I get, they have to decide who they're bringing in. But I think the fact I started out, of course, working for a Republican governor, a kid pot in this. I remember. And, and, you know, I like to, I'd say when I say some of my best friends are Republicans, it sounds like a joke, but it actually isn't. And, and, you know, I think that, and be clear, I'm not, I don't waffle. I mean, I'm pro choice. I'm not kind of pro choice. I'm pro choice, you know, which, but I also don't believe as a pro choice person in vilifying those who call themselves who feel they're pro-life. It is, you have to find, we've got to kind of detoxify our, our rhetoric here. And look, I mean, I, but I don't, there's a difference between not waffling, which I really don't think anyone ever accusing me of doing, but also understanding that we can't just be warring fiefdoms all the time. We've got to have some sense of mutual respect enough that we can talk and, and debate issues, and not just, you know, you know, hurl up at that to each other. Well, you say pro choice, but here's the interesting thing. Over recent years, we've got the, the, the total number of abortions in the United States coming down every single year. Yeah, I mean, there was at one point, there were a million a year. Now we're down to like half of that. Well, I mean, nobody wants abortions. Bill Clinton's best line of his presidency was, they should be safe and rare. Yeah. And I mean, it's true. I mean, by definition, and if you know, any woman who has, you know, and this guy's talking about it, I'm necessarily the right way to do this, but, but any woman will tell you who's been through an unintended pregnancy, whether it's those who went ahead for, for the pregnancy or those who, who ended the pregnancy, will tell you, I mean, that's this. And again, as guys, I don't think we should pretend to even empathize on this point. It's a very, very emotional and, you know, profound experience of getting pregnant. And again, we can't relate to it, but, but, you know, for the government to come in in that situation and mandate that all pregnancies, regardless of the circumstance, and in Missouri, we're talking about, I mean, regardless of any circumstance, for the government to mandate that women, you know, bring to bear children that, for whatever reason, they don't feel they can, can take care of, that they don't want for whatever is just not, you know, that's, you talk about big brother. That's government excess at its worst. I think this is, it's so ironic because growing up, I always, conservatives were always the party of less government and liberals were the party of more government. And on this issue, I don't know if I'm, I guess I'm a conservative because I want less government, because I don't think it's a, first of all, the definition of life's origin is a religious definition. It's not, if you, anybody want to Google it, religions don't agree with some, the definition that's out there among the pro-lifers. A lot of women, for whatever reason, whether they're in a different religion or in a, have their own spirituality, they should not be governed by a state religion on this. And not every, there's a great difference of opinion about the origin of life. And because of that, you know, a lot of this is about religious freedom and keeping government out of people's lives. And I think we should support those. And I don't know that this is a politically correct thing to say or not, but I happen to believe it. If someone wants to bring to, wants to bring to birth a child, but doesn't, and wants to adopt that child out, wants to provide that child for adoption, I think we should make every effort we can to make that as seamless and as inexpensive, support it with tax credit, whatever we got to do to make that's a choice. And I think we should support that choice. I really do. But I also think that we should keep the government out of telling women. And I think a broad consensus of Americans actually, when it comes down to it, agree with that. They don't want, they don't want government telling women, you know, governing their bodies. But I do think that the fight that's going on, and I think that this massive support for women in the Democratic Party and the polls are showing it's huge. I think it doesn't have to do with somebody wanting necessarily to have an abortion. I think it has to do with the stories that are going around, which are real, of women who we can empathize with, are wives who get pregnant and then have a miscarriage. And then the doctors are not willing to take care of them right now because of the fear that somebody's going to say they're having an abortion. Well, and you hit it on a good point, Mark, and that is, and this I'm also here when I compare it, I've talked to people who consider themselves pro-life, but have this, when you talk about the Dobbs decision and when you talk and having completely wiped out Roe v. Wade as a safety net, and they see now the consequence to your point, I've talked to pro-life people who go, this isn't what we had in mind. In other words, I'm pro-life, I believe this, and so forth. That's great. When they're seeing doctors go to prison, they're seeing women die, they're seeing women left at the door of an emergency room. I mean, these are not actual mythical made up stories. These are real situations where people are dying get to another state to get to an abortion. Again, doctors are facing jail time, women are facing jail time. In Missouri, it's six weeks, no excuse. So basically the position of Missouri, God forbid someone, a woman in your life, it doesn't matter of childbearing age, a kid, your wife, your sister, your aunt, it doesn't matter. A woman at childbearing age gets raped in Missouri, we're saying she's having that baby, and that's just, I mean, if you start pulling on that, I mean, there's so many people who really believe, and I don't question their sincerity, consider themselves pro-life. They ain't buying into that. They're not interested in that, but you have to understand, this isn't me creating some kind or you creating some kind of a fake, kind of a horror story. This is reality. Look it up. Look at Missouri's law right now. Six weeks, no exceptions. I mean, we're talking about living in a society that's essentially lost its mind over this, and you got to really look hard to find anyone who thinks that really makes sense, and I would also include in that, I don't think it passes in a legislature, but let's face it, how many of those legislators faced with an unintended or unwanted pregnancy in their own families or their mistress? I don't, you know, male or female. I think it's pretty clearly a very compelling issue, and it always comes back the same thing. Just respect women's health, women's women, and their right to health care, and their right to make decisions about their own, not only their bodies, but their essence of their lives, and I don't think there's, I don't think it's even ambiguous. I think now that Roe v. Wade's gone, it's an overwhelmingly important issue to women, and as you know, for the last many decades, it's been the issue that anti-abortion representatives like Ann Wagner have led with. You don't hear a leading winner now? Oh, no, they're afraid. They're not brave. They're not even bringing it up. That's why they wanted to get that thing off the ballot fast, because this is, this is the worst thing that could happen for them, the best for you. Right, and they didn't, you know what's so funny is usually politicians of either party pretend to be on the high ground. In this one, they said, "Don't know." You know, that's why they fought the, the, I don't know what you call, how do you say, "Wacko"? I don't know. The folks in the Freedom Caucus, so-called, which is just a joke called on that. They were open about the fact that unless they could openly and intentionally deceive voters, they didn't want to go to the ballot. And of course, they called this ballot candy, which is a terrible name. Basically, what they wanted to be able to do is when you went into the polls to vote, to ban abortion, the first, or to vote, I'm sorry, to vote, when you vote, vote to protect abortion. Right. The first thing you'd see is, you know, it would be something that was totally the opposite. In other words, it would be totally like, I don't know, you were, it was, it made it look like you were like not, you were, you were okay with illegal immigrants, you know, voting, or whatever that, of course they don't. Well, that's, yeah, exactly. And they wanted to make it, I think, I'm not sure how they were exactly setting it up, but they were definitely going to make this something. Oh, I know, they were going to do that for the, I'm sorry, not on the abortion. They were doing that on the, what they called IP reform in August. Right. And they were setting IP reform up. That's what, I'm sorry, not on the abortion thing, obviously. If they had an anti-abortion thing, that's how it would lead. You know, it's an anti-abortion thing, or this crazy IP reform that didn't, was going to start out rather than admit the truth and the IP reform, it was like, I think five counties had a vote to approve any referendum. That's right. They know, and how deeply read five counties are. So they knew that there would be no way than anything. Correct. Even centrist thing could pass. And so when they went to ballot candy, but they wanted you, instead of voting for something that heinous, you were going in thinking you were voting the only a Missouri and only legal Americans can vote in our elections. It's like, well, they already can only vote in our, I mean, you know, you can't be an illegal, you know, immigrant or whatever and vote. And they knew that, but they wanted to make it look like that's what you were voting for. It's like, I favor the pledge of allegiance, you know, and that's what you think you're voting for. And to be that deceptive to me is just really kind of telling, I think. Yeah, it's a game they play. But here's one more thing I just want to quickly add before we change directions here a little bit. And that is, and I know, again, you know this, but black women die in childbirth in the United States three times greater than white women. And so bake this into the whole women's rights issues here. So there's a lot going on beyond abortion. And people, they just, they keep pushing it to that. But that's not why these women are coming out to vote. And let me also say that Sam Alito's wife, she won't be, I heard that she's going to have to do a mail-in ballot because she wants to keep that flag upside down in front of their house. You know, it's, we've come to a really strange place we have, parents to Supreme Court. And I mean, two of the, I mean, there are, we've always had conservative and liberal justices. We've never had that I know of, to, you know, activist partisans like Alito and Thomas. Yeah, during, I mean, in 1864 when we, when we had Roger, Tom, I mean, yeah, that, yeah, that's true. Okay, so let me, let me switch to something. I mean, you, you brought up, you know, the voting and, and illegal immigrants voting, which, of course, they never do. But, but what, what do you think about the immigration issue? I mean, this is an important one. I think it's a huge issue. Yeah. So first of all, I think people, I do not think it's, again, waffling to say, I, we absolutely need border control. We need security at the border. I don't think that's anything that Democrats or anyone else should shy away from. We, if you're going to have a border, you have to police people coming across it illegally. And there's a number of ways to do it. And that, you know, I don't think that I don't feel defensive at all about that. And I don't, you know, the questions are more technical. In other words, there are things like, without being an expert on the subject by any means, it seems pretty logical that in 2024, it would be more logical to have an investment in technology that, that keeps people from crossing illegally than building the medieval wall, which doesn't. And there's certainly a lot of proactive things we need to do to cut down the demand for more, for people to come in terms of things we can do. And with other governments to try to make it less, less desperate for those people to come, there's also more higher and more immigration judges and higher, you know, more asylum judges. And, and so there's a lot of that, I think we have to focus on, you know, making sure that the people who come in, the best we can, are, are coming in legally. I don't think that's, the other thing though, I think we ought to focus on that for some reason has gotten dropped off the discussion are the dreamers. You know, there's overwhelming sympathy and support for the, for the kids who came here as little kids through no fall of their own. And yes, they came illegally, but this is the only country they've ever known. And so many, and I wrote about this nationally for our story, so many of them. And we're talking about millions, like six million kids that came here that live in constant fear of deportation. And there is American in their own minds as you and I were, I mean, that's the only, this is the only place they've ever lived. They grew up with the same, you know, they grew up almost without exception speaking English, you know, if they grew up in St. Louis, you know, they would be a Cardinals fan from the time they were little kids, they were just kids, you know, they grew up as kids here. They went to high school here. They went to college here. A lot of them are wonderfully, you know, productive members of society at this point. And even in their twenties, they live in fear of being deported. That was the common ground that was existing for a minute until Donald Trump came in with the, with the, the deranged, you know, talk of a dictator that the xenophobia and all the horrible stuff that shouldn't be repeated about Mexicans and stuff. And, and poisoning the blood of them. I mean, this is full, you know, really fascist rhetoric and without any apology for it. Before we had that, there was, we were on the brink of comprehensive immigration reform and never seemed to get there. But people were really forming a consensus that the dreamers should have a pathway to citizenship. And they should. And I think it's, you know, I guess I should be running this race to criticize Democrats right off the bat. But I will say I'm who I am. I think our party needs to do a much better job of not shrinking from border control. But not shrinking from border control doesn't mean you want to round up people like Donald Trump's talking about putting him in concentration camps with mass deportations, no due process. You know, we don't need to be consumed with irrational fears xenophobia about people coming in. But at the same time, I think to be defensive about that and say, you know, you know, if again, in our political world, maybe my opponent will call me like for open borders. I don't sound like I am doing it. I'm not for open borders. You haven't said it. I'm not for I'm against open borders. But I'm also for compassion. And I'm also really I would love to be one of my issues would be the fight for these dreamers to be taken out of the fear that grips their lives every day. And I'm telling you folks, I've talked to some they are still in fear even growing up as American kids, even some of them, you know, have really, you know, at this point in their 20s, great jobs and a really important part of our country. And they still have to worry about this. Well, sure, because people come for their friends and they're deported. They get, you know, they are scared about the INS coming for them without it's just tragic. And so I think we need to talk about both things. And you know, it's Republicans don't want to talk about the second one. They don't want to talk about dreamers because Donald Trump doesn't want to talk about it. And Donald Trump made it very clear, look, the Senate had passed a bipartisan piece of legislation several months ago that would have been the most aggressive border control, border security measure we've had in decades. And the Democrats were even though they were loving every part of it, they were willing to go along with it. Well, they had to. It was, well, but they should have. They should have. They should have. I mean, whether they want it or not. And I think our party is mismanaged this issue to be blunt. I mean, I think we have, but they were we were on board. Democrats are on board. Most of the Republican Senate was. And Donald Trump was very open about this. He said he made them kill it because he wanted it to fail. He wants the border crisis, whatever it is. And I think it's sometimes exaggerated, sometimes not. But he wants there to be a border crisis. He wants American carnage. I mean, that's what he wants. He said it. And so, because he knows as a demagogue and a dictator in waiting, that's what he needs. He can't win if people are rational about their circumstances. Yeah. Well, no matter how many people are coming over at the border, and there are a lot, but here's the thing, the statistics are clear, which the Republicans will never admit to. If they were, any of them were sitting right here, they'd say we're lying. There is far less crime among the immigrants than there is among people who have lived here and were born here. And that's logical, Mark, because obviously for most people, if they were going to commit, say, as some kind of crime of any kind, and particularly most crimes, the penalty is whatever that crime provides for, and they know it and so forth. But it's not generally death or deportation. And that's what anyone who's here illegally faces for the same crime. So whether it's shoplifting, no one's going to jail for prison here for shoplifting, no American, but some illegal immigrant tries that. And they're going to be looking at a dramatically different punishment. So, but I, you know, as I said, I've heard that argument, I think we should not shy away from saying, I happen to agree, that we need to control the border full stop. But, and I don't think we have to even explain why, but that doesn't mean putting kids in cages or separating families. It doesn't mean let losing our humanity. And we've got to figure out strategies working together. And again, Donald Trump has put it on so full display now that they just don't want, he's not looking for a solution. He's looking to make it worse so he can run on it. And he said so. And that's, to me, that's, I think there's plenty room to be for cutting the flow of people for admitting, yes, the amount of people coming into our country without kind of any kind of process is unacceptable. I don't think that's, it's not defensive. It's true. But we don't have to, I don't think we have to apologize for that because we just have to say, look, we've got to do something about that. But you can't do it without compassion and humanity and decency. And again, back to the dreamers. I, that's, I think that's where the Republicans are of a lot more vulnerability. Because particularly with a standard bearer, who wants to vilify these people and talk about poisoning the blood of our citizens, you know, they are really, that's an issue they should be more vulnerable than we are. Well, they know it comes from Hitler. And they're, and they're allowing it anyway. Well, and I, you know, as I say, that's kind of personal for me. I lost the grandparents and Auschwitz. But I will say that, again, I think that, that we need as Democrats to stay focused on, listening to the folks and people really, I, there, and again, I'm not arguing with you about the, the crime statistics, but they take that as somehow minimizing. You don't have to minimize anything. I mean, I, you're right, but it's, that isn't even the point. Because that could be true, and it's still have too many people coming in. You just can't, the country, and, you know, I mean, I thought it was heinous, what Abbott, Governor's Abbott and DeSantis and others did shipping, sending the, sending people, but, you know, and, and it was a horrible thing. I mean, from again, lacking humanity, but the point they were making is not unreasonable from their perspective. And that is, you know, don't leave all this on some border state. I mean, in other words, I, I don't defend them in any way for what they did. And again, I, they were making, they're treating people like cattle. But I think we cannot be in denial, and you see it's happening in New York, and why is that that? We can't be in denial of the fact that there's too many people coming here illegally. And, and there's, you know, I say, I, I, it's not even hypothetical. We had Democrats and Republicans come together like they're supposed to in the Senate with a, with a bill that addressed it. And the Republicans didn't want it because it was going to work. Yeah. Well, listen, first we got to do a little bit of business here. Sure. And then we'll come back and finish this thing up. And by the way, it's four, 30 ish, something like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, four, 40. So around this time, you get thinking about dinner? Sure. Yeah, sure. Everybody does. Well, there's a place that we love that's right down the road from here. Have you ever been to wenties? I am not. Okay. Great. Great food. And let me tell you, my favorite is baby back ribs and onion rings. Oh, that's good. That's good stuff. But they have smoked meats, they have wings, they have pizza, they have hamburgers and cheeseburgers and patty melts and everything. Wonderful food, terrific people. And we've just, in fact, they're opening a new one in defiance, Missouri. Oh, I know. I've been there. Yeah. So that's common. He gets in my district. Oh, it's that far, isn't it? Okay. Well, so where is this? Well, 18,500 Chesterfield Airport Road. So we're on Madison, but it's chair four. Right. Chesterfield Airport Road. So it's close. It's easy to get to it. Yeah. Very. Yep. Anyway, wenties is great. Ben is one of the owner, the, well, he and his wife run it and they're just terrific. If you ever get out there, ask for Ben. I will. Yeah. And if I mentioned your name, he'll shut the door. I thought so. He'll send you away. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's one. I don't know how you are with jewelry. I know you're married. I buried. Yeah. So, so, well, yeah, go ahead. So maybe you buy some jewelry. I don't know. But jewels on hand from Ben, not from, not from, not from, let's get this. Yeah, this is, this is somebody else. This is 4506 Hampton and it's jewels on Hampton. And, and there, the, the two guys are there who are just fabulous. Alan, AJ, AJ is the son and they, they, they are just terrific. And, and they, they design jewelry and they, they, if somebody comes in and says, well, I'd like it this way. They'll do it your way or they'll do their own designs. And, and they, they fix watches and everything. I mean, they've been there. I was talking on the other day. They've been there 18 years. Really? Yeah. On, on Hampton. So. Like South of 44? Yes. Okay. Yes. Very good place. Very good jewelry and, and, and great prices. And they buy and sell coins and jewelry. So, yeah, they're a big deal. We got, that's a cool places all over St. Louis. Yeah. And one of the things that I talk about all the time, and I know, you know, with what you're doing now, it's meaningful to you in terms of business. And people that are, are small businesses that have the owners that are there at the business. I mean, that's, that's, that's means a lot to the customers coming in. Does a lot. Now, when it comes to being dressed nice, now look at you. You're, you're, you're good today. I've seen you're not. I've seen you. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But at any rate, you know, I'm, I'm always, you know, you are GQ. Yeah. But, but you know, even now with jeans and, and, and these, and chucks, you know, to go along, you know, that's really cool in 2024. The St. Louis suit company in Clayton is where I get everything. And they are terrific. In fact, they're so terrific. They've been there for 29 years. This is all from saying it's good. Well, I'm not the jeans, but I'm gonna say, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe the shoes. Yeah. No, no, no. In fact, I was there over the weekend, and, and the owner was telling me, we, we don't do chucks, but they, they do have shoes that look like tennis shoes, and they're real comfortable. And they've got everything, but it's not, it's not that. It's, it's suits and ties. You know, you got a tie there. It looks really nice. What'd you pay for that tie? Um, probably 500. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. You paid something for it. I paid too much. How many, you see this with this tie car? What do you think of this one? It's very fine. Yeah. Five bucks. Five bucks? Five bucks. Oh, oh, and they've been selling them for five bucks forever. And I talked to them again this weekend. And he says, they're never going to raise the price. Wow. Yeah. So there's this big silk ties, five bucks. Yeah. Listen, St. Louis suit company. It's on the corner of central and foresight in Clayton. Really. That's right where our first office was. Yeah, they're good. Oh, yeah. They're good. Right over by, well, which used to be there where you used to be able to get newspapers. Where it is. Yeah, which nobody reads anymore. So it's not bad. That was sad. I, I, yeah. Yeah. We're off the business part now. No, well, no. I mean, yeah. I know where it is, actually. Yeah. But I didn't know they saw, for some reason, I didn't realize the ties with five bucks. I, I started, I tell people that that start running for Congress and building a campaign from scratch. It's just like starting a company. And so I wake up feeling like I'm 24 again, because that's how old I was when I started the company that ended up publishing the Riverfront Times. And actually, it was at 110 South Central, which is a block and a half south of single suit company. However, it is now part of the county jail. So I were my office was, and I was never there. I mean, I've toured the jail as a journalist, but I am. So I tell people, I'm feeling like 24 mentally. I do. I wake up. I feel like I'm 24 again. I take about three steps, and I think, well, my body's going, you ain't 24 Sparky. But on the other, you know, I'm doing okay. You know, you know, you know, the words, the words, you know, we were, we were younger or once, because we sure are older now, if you remember that. Yeah. Yeah. But but but on the other hand, you know, here, two of us are sitting here 72 years old. No, no, no, no. You're you're one of us. Yeah, you're 71. You are much. Yeah. But I'm not going to be 72 for three days. Yeah. So obviously, I came on to hear you wisdom, Mark, because as an as my elder, I say that exact thing that you're saying to my mentor at at I'm soul, who is 73. Yeah. Okay. Same story. I know how it works. I'm a little long in the tooth, but no, no, no, no, no. I'm really in 10 years, we could be running for president. I was going to say, I'm not old enough to remember exactly. No, but I'm and I am. No, I don't worry about it. I just, you know, it's it's I will say it's invigorating. It really is running and meet people and you just kind of go, you know, and I love it. I mean, I was, you know, I love being what I did for a long time, but but I was ready for something new. And this has been, it's really fun. Well, what you were doing before was government, really, because we're the fourth estate. I've been involved. And and and now it's still government. Right. Yeah. So, okay, so we've got the the border. We've got women's healthcare. You know, the the economy, everybody's really freaked out about inflation, which by the way, we had almost no inflation for 10 years. Right. And we suddenly had a spurt. How do you feel about it? Well, first of all, I think it's been, you know, one wants to tell people that inflate. I mean, and again, I don't have, I once had a lot more money to have that. So I feel that I went from rags to riches back to rags. So I feel it as much as I else. I, I think on balance, we have way too much shorthand in general. I, I have it. The President Biden's in a really good job. And I think that that it's so hard to isolate any one particular factor when it comes to the economy. But I think, for example, the infrastructure program, which Joe Biden did, has been a huge boon to the economy and Republicans, including Ann Wagner, voted against it. I think there's a lot of, you know, where there is. But they sure show up when the things get built in their neighborhoods. Well, yeah, I'm sure they're willing to come to the ribbon cut. But but the and then there's, you know, like one of the things that was deflation for people was cutting prescription drug prices. Sure. They cut insulin prices, $35 a month. Again, Ann Wagner and the Republicans opposed that. So I, you know, I don't, I, people, I think presidents of both parties take too much credit when it's good and get too much blame on it's bad. And I think that that so much of it's influenced by factors outside of the control of the politicians. I'll tell you one issue that I really have been talking about a lot, Mark, is and this may surprise you, but it is a significant thing. And it's, I'm hearing about it all over the district, including the further south parts of our district. And that is the radioactive waste tragedy. And we have going back to the Manhattan project, something I probably might, one of my main issues as a journalist in the last 10 years in particular, even once going back to the 80s at the RFT, the tragedy of the federal government having built, secretly built the atomic bomb here downtown is one of the main places, Malecrot Chemical, where they built the atomic bomb. And we had this waste, this unbelievably toxic, this unknown toxic, toxicity waste. And they call it poisons. That's what they call it. Well, it's one. And they, the federal, your, our federal government poisoned thousands and thousands of St. Louisans dating back literally like 80 years. Okay. And we're still just sorting out the carnage. I mean, we're so many people have died. So many people today, generationally suffer from a wide range of cancers and birth defects and all kinds of things that were spawned by this waste because it was dumped at Laddie Avenue, which is near where the airport now is, it eventually seeped into the cold water creek, which is a beautiful tributary. If you don't know what it is, it runs through 15 of our communities. It's seeped into the creek. And we literally, kids grew up playing, swimming, hunting crawdads, throwing rocks in poisoned waters and it poisoned them. And its, its impact is continued today. It also ended up at the Westlake landfill, where there's fires burning and radio in weld spring, famously. And so this is a huge tragedy. It's one of the few things we can all agree on. Well, you would think everybody agrees. It's the federal government's fault. Everybody agrees. It's tragic. And for decades, nothing's happened. Now, I wouldn't, as I said, Josh Hawley is not somebody I'd ever vote for the senator, but to his credit, and I mean this on this one issue, I don't think there is a second issue, but on this one issue, Josh Hawley busted his tail to get it done. And I'm not even going to sit here and try to give him some ulterior motive. He did it. He got it through the Senate. Guess who opposed it the day, and I'm talking about March 7th of this year, who came out against it for the second time, who said it was too expensive. That was Ann Wagner. She in her own, not just her own district, but the region, you know how much money we're talking about? $3.7 billion of compensation was passed by the Senate to include St. Louis for the first time in Downwinders' compensation. $3.7 billion. Ann Wagner, and you go look it up, it's Google it. Kansas City Star, she said it in December. She said it again on March 7th. She says, "We're not about raising our deficits and debts. We can't afford this. We can't afford it. Maybe we should scale it down." So these poor victims, so we're getting pretty much of a pittance for like $25,000 if you lost a relative. 50,000 if you had cancer. I mean, these are not big numbers. She wanted to cut that number down. She wanted to scale the program down. Or she was against it. Well, everybody lost their mind in a Republican party. Josh Hawley called her. He said it was scandalous. And she got bombarded. She's trying now to say she's for it. But the fact is that to me, it's one thing that me run around and talk about the fact she had never had a town hall. But let me tell you something, somebody who had had a town hall, somebody who had been connected to their voters, would never have dreamt for a second of trying to pull some fiscal responsibility card when it's $3.7 billion to help cancer victims in St. Louis. And you want to talk about deficits? I mean, no. There's 435 members of Congress. The other 434 wouldn't do that. I mean, what are you talking about? Of course, whatever you think about deficits, we're going to do deficits on the back. Our representative is going to suddenly be a fiscal concern. And by the way, she wasn't worried about deficits when she voted for Trump's tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. But now she's all of a sudden. And so I will tell you something, Mark. I mean this. I talked, I gave a speech in Oakville. Now Oakville's about as far from the radioactive ways you get in the county. It's way out. Guess what? Those people were totally tuned into this. They knew about it, and they are not happy. And because they know we're all connected on this. And there are many people, by the way, the bill provided for relief, if you could show that you got ill from working in this area. And I want to pick on anyone in particular, but there's a grocery store warehouse in that region. If you work there, you might have been contaminating. And again, there's strict rules for showing that you're a victim, but the victims are real. And again, now... But now she's flipping. And now she's flipping. And I'm like, somebody said, "Well, I had a Democrat." I said, "Well, you know, she changed her position." I said, "She didn't change her position in my head. You broke it, you won't." But I'm sure you've got tape, right? Oh, no. I mean, I don't know. Because I have tape, I haven't. I have a camera on tape, she's got to have said this on tape. I don't know. She said it on tape, but I certainly, in the Kansas City Star, and there's no issue with the veracity, did it twice. And she was clearly opposed, very, and other publications. She was clearly saying it's too expensive. She said that. She said, "We aren't about raising deficits and deficits. Look it up." And again, you broke it, you own it. I mean, once you've taken that position, right now, she's trying to say now that she's trying to present herself as the person who's getting Mike Johnson, the House Speaker involved. Well, guess who came out and blasted her about that again? Josh Hawley, because he pointed out, no. And I was up there. I just went to Washington to attend the press conference up there to see what was about, just to see us. And of course, she didn't show up at the press conference with some other congressmen to try to complain about this. And I was there and she basically, now, and Josh Hawley pointed out, she didn't get Speaker Johnson involved. She got his staff involved. Well, that doesn't mean anything. And so the point is, I think it's a huge issue, but it's not an issue. It's obvious an issue substantively, because it's so atrocious for our region. But it's also, it really kind of gets to the question of, when you get to where you've been in office six terms, you don't interact with your voters spontaneously, unless it's a fundraiser or some scripted event, you just kind of lose touch. She's not a bad person. I'm not saying that. She's just losing touch with the people you just wouldn't. And again, I know that I'm right about this because I was astonished at how many people, I was in Franklin County, people heard about it. And by the way, there's another issue environmentally at the labity plant that Amber and has out there. That's a huge issue. I'll be talking about tonight in Union, Missouri. There are issues about, we can talk all we want about all these other issues. We talk about immigration choice and all this. At some level, even though people might not want to be hearing about the Green New Deal versus this or that, when you start talking to human beings where they live about the air they breathe and more important, the air their children breathe, all of a sudden, you've cut across all these lines. Well, including and whether you're producing the lead in their water. Right. If there's lead in their water and there's contaminants right now in the labity, there's contaminants that apparently the corporate interests are saying, oh, don't worry about them. You could just drink it right now while they're not drinking it themselves. And the point is, those are the kind of issues. Again, if you put it in the kind of political ideological terms you don't get very far. But if you actually are talking legitimately, not some kind of scare to it, if you're talking like co-water creek was not the contamination and the poisoning of people in co-water creek was not some liberal talking point. It was not some or conservative. It was, it's real. People are real. I have a friend who has MS from it. I mean, for real. And what was she guilty of playing in the creek when she was a little girl? You know, I mean, people care about this stuff. And again, I pride myself on being somebody that at least cares. And there's a lot of people out there that are going to disagree with me on some issues whether it's, I don't care. If they know you care about them and you're going to stand up and you're going to have the back of people in their districts, I think that's how you win an election. We'll find out, I guess. Yeah. Well, you know, people say that Joe Biden has done nothing. That's their favorite thing. And one thing that he's done for sure that we've really covered now is the infrastructure bill, which has attempted to get led out of these pipes that people are drinking from. I'm happy that I have no problem at all being supportive of the president. But they say my issues really, when I'm talking to people, they're less interested in Biden and Trump. They're less interested. Some of them are very interested in pro-choice pro-life questions. But a lot of them, I've had a couple of people who are self-described as pro-life who said they will vote for me because I'm there talking to them. And they genuinely believe that I'm not just talking, you know, for the purpose of getting elected, but that I actually do like tonight, I'm going out to union. I'm not going there to, you know, as well as anybody, I talk too much. I'm going out to hear what they get to say. Yeah. Well, let me also say really quickly before we get ourselves out of here because I want to touch on this. You know, this morning when I was promoting the fact that you were going to be here, we got into a brief discussion about the fact, you know, Joe Biden has saved NATO. Yeah. Does that mean anything to you? It means a lot to me. Well, it means a lot to me, but the, you know, the Republicans are saying NATO is a waste of time and it means nothing. In a minute and a half, tell us what NATO means. I think it means a lot. Well, it does. Now, in fairness, this isn't one that's in my race is going to be a big issue because the least so far that you'll be voting on it. But that's the thing. So far, Enwagner said all the right things about Russia and about NATO. But the problem is, what will she do when Donald Trump tells her that she's his pal, Vladimir Putin, comes first? Now, again, I can't predict the future, but I can tell you that she said all the right things about his lack of character and had two chances to impeach him when many other Republicans did, and she didn't. So that's the, and I don't want to project for her. I maybe she make a stand for you. You know, she does support Ukraine funding. But, you know, as far as I'm considered, of course, I mean, and I've always been, see it felt on foreign policy. And despite the fact I haven't been in office, I've always been a student of foreign policy and a follower. And I've always felt that we need to do two things at once. One is to be the world's leader. I think we are that isolationism is not a real solution. But the other thing is, as the leader, I think it's really important that we do things in coordination with other nations. Whether it's a new world order, whatever you're going to call it, working with the United Nations, working through NATO, it's critical that we see ourselves as the leader of the world, not the policeman of the world. We need to see ourselves as the leader of consensus in the world. And that's, to me, our role in NATO, and I think NATO, you know, has become stronger now. And of course, I mentioned -- Finland and Sweden already. I was going to say Josh Hawley, who I was saying nice things about, because I think he has done a great job on this one issue, was the only member, the entire -- think about this, there's a hundred of them, and some of them are a pretty whack job. Only Josh Hawley voted against admitting Finland and Sweden to NATO. So I don't have to take back what I said, because he does deserve credit for one thing. But also, you want a guy that voted against bringing Finland and Sweden to NATO? So anyway, I'm good. Yeah. Well, we're out of time, and I really appreciate you being here. And I'm really excited about your candidacy, because I think that it's number one important for the second congressional district. And number two, I think it's important for the entire effort of the Democratic Party to get control of the House of Representatives and to support Joe Biden against the guy who in a week could be convicted. So let me talk like a politician. Are you excited enough for me to be able to give up my web site? Give up Ray Hartman for Congress.com. Hartman has two ends on it. Ray Hartman for Congress.com. And you -- we can use all the financial support we can for those. You don't have to live in the district to be hoping that we -- this is going to be -- I don't think there's anybody questions that the race for control of the House of Representatives is going to be very close. And one of the proudest days of my life, certainly among the professionally, would be the day that I got to vote for Hakeem Jeffries. And if I'm the 218th vote in the Congress next year, I'd be really -- I feel pretty good about that. So anybody who wants to support us, I'd appreciate that. Okay. Well, Ray Hartman, we'll catch up with you again, I'm sure. And this is "Showdown." And I'm Mark Casein. Good night.