(upbeat music) - We're back on Cadoc Central. Cadoc Central is for Enzyme Pacific Vancouver's premier Chrysler, Dodge, Ram and Jeep Superstore on Second Avenue between Cambion, Maine, or at EnzymePacificCrisler.ca. Let's bring in our next guest. - He joins us every Tuesday on Cadoc Central, Cadoc's insider, Erfan Gefar. What's happening? - I didn't know what this hit was gonna bring. Like, where are we gonna start talking about Dallas after last night? Or was it gonna be the kind of not the obituary maybe? But basically, I'll have this season one. And unfortunately for Cadoc Central, this is the latter of it after what happened yesterday. - Yeah, sometimes a day later, you get to have some sober second thoughts on the game. And look, I think there was more there for the Canucks than they took last night from the Oilers, even before the late game push. And they didn't lose to McDavid and Drycidal. They just lost to the Oilers playing a better team game. And I didn't think that was going to be the story of the series. That being said, I look at the roster today and look back at my notes from last night, look at the line combinations. And it's like, man, Rick Talkett really extracted blood from a stone with this roster, getting them to game seven of the second round. - Yeah, I mean, I think that, look, I think we all set it at points this season. You had a team that really had no expectation. You end up getting 50 wins. You win your division. At one point in the season, you had three players that were one, two, and three in NHL scoring. You had a guy that got 40 goals that no one thought would ever happen again. You had a 100-point guy in JT Miller who a lot of people wrote off who he said that people threw his jersey on the ice a couple of years ago, right? And you go and make a trade for a guy in Nikita Zadorov early in the season to bolster your blue line. And then you blew your big, big, big splash at the end of January and acquire a guy who was an absolute monster for you in the postseason. So overall, from the expectation that I think a lot of people had going into the year, this season should be a success. But you look at the game, and they were one game away from going to the Western Conference final, I think that's really disappointing. - Yeah, and you know what, like, I don't disagree. Like, I disagree with people who say the Canucks can't get better than what they currently are. And this is kind of their peak as a core. Like, I don't agree with that. But you never know how many chances you get to get to the Western Conference final and beyond. And the Canucks were one win away and they had two chances to get there. And I'm sure the players on that team are gonna be thinking about that this entire off season, that no matter what happened in game six or seven, they were one win away and they couldn't close it out. And you're absolutely right about how successful this year was, but you can also be disappointed about not being able to close that out. And the best way to look at it for me is that the guys take that experience, learn from it. 'Cause you never know how a postseason goes. Like, you saw with Demko getting hurt, best for in his situation in this series. Like, you never know what can happen in a playoff run. You don't get that many chances to get to the Western Conference final and beyond. So you can be upset about a missed opportunity. - Yeah, absolutely. And I think they should be, right? I mean, look, we don't know what the situation would have been if Demko would have been healthy. And obviously if Brock would have played in game seven, how much a difference that would have made. But these are all things that, you know, the organization and Patrick Alveen and Rick Talkett are gonna look at when they do their exit interviews with the players in the coming days and things that they wanna improve on. Like, this is another important summer for this team because now you set a bar for yourself, right? The expectation now is you have to make the playoffs. Like, anything beyond that, you are a playoff team now. You just won your division. Like, anything beyond that would be considered a failure if you're this team now going forward. - Yeah, and you know, you don't wanna end up like Seattle, right? Having a lot of success last year and then falling flat on your face this year. Now, you know, I think the Canucks have more to work with than the Seattle Kraken do. Obviously, they're core of Pedersen and Hughes or two players. I don't think the Kraken have anywhere on their roster. You know, maybe they're hoping some of their young players that they've drafted recently can become something like that. But, you know, they don't have the foundation that the Canucks do. The high end players that the Canucks are trying to build around. But there is a lot of question marks. I mean, there's a ton of UFAs. Sat and I just talked about it quite a bit. But I think for me, the biggest question mark is probably Elias Lindholm. Like he's the highest caliber player of the unrestricted free agents they have on the roster. We've heard rumblings already that they are going to take a run at this and see what it's going to cost at least. What do you think happens here with Elias Lindholm? - Well, I mean, it wouldn't be their job if they didn't take a run at it, right? I think they'll definitely be some suitors out there for Elias Lindholm. But it's at what cost, right? I mean, for the Vancouver Canucks and Elias Lindholm, one day acquired him, you know, obviously scoring two and his debut as a Vancouver Canucks and then unfortunately getting hurt and not being able to or unmiss some time before the playoffs. But the reason why they acquired, we've said it before and said it so many times. Rick Talkett after game one of the against Nashville. Elias Lindholm, that's the reason why they went out and acquired Elias Lindholm. You win face offs, you play both ends of the ice, 200 foot game, he can contribute offensively as we've shown, he had two game winning goals, right? In the playoffs for this team and he goes up against the team's best players. Yeah, I know JT Miller was against Conor McDavid, but Leon, Leon Dreycito was playing against Elias Lindholm and that's a tough matchup, right? For anybody, for any line. And Elias did a very good job with that. And also in the first round, like Elias Lindholm was, it was dependent on a lot to play against a Ryan O'Reilly line. And, you know, that was basically Nashville's only line. So if you're the Vancouver Canucks, you have to look at it and say, how much are we willing to pay this guy that has become such a big part of our team? Now, is the number going to start with an eight? I mean, he's an unrestricted free agent that connects with the only team that can give him that extra year for an eight year deal. So that's an important thing to remember in all of this for both sides. But I mean, he's a guy that's going to get his money, right? Whether it's here or whether it's somewhere else. And I think for Elias Lindholm, it's about the fit, it's about the coaching staff, it's about obviously where you live. There's a lot of things that have to go into consideration. I've always said I'm all about players going to get their bag and when they do, it makes me happy because you do want to see that. But Lindholm is definitely an important part of this hockey team. - Yeah, and I do think he's high on the priority list. It just kind of comes down to, can they agree on something that still works out? Because they still view Lindholm as a high-end player. And that's why I think if they could get something done with them, they would. They view him as a guy that you can maybe work towards a long-term contract with. I'm not sure they have the same sense with some of the other players on the team that are free agents. - No, look, I think that the ask and what Nikita Zidorov could possibly fetch on the open market is going to be, there's going to be a big difference and what the Canucks are probably willing to pay him to be completely honest. I mean, probably going to be around six times six and a team might give that to him. I don't think the Canucks want to go that high nor should they go that high. - Yeah. - For a guy like Nikita Zidorov, I understand the recency bias and the performance and the plays against Evander Kane, the goals scoring, the quilts and everything like that. But you have to look at this as a long-term commitment, not just the first two rounds of what you see in the playoffs, right? Thing can be said for a life at home as well. I mean, he was injured for a little bit, but these are important parts. And he's another guy where he is in his age. He's looking for term on his yield, a little bit older as well. So from that point of view, wouldn't surprise me if Zidorov was a guy that went and test the open market, 'cause why not? You know, you want to be wanted. And I really do think that the someone's going to give him exactly what he wants. - Yeah, Zidorov's going to be an interesting free agent one because, I mean, there's already talk at a Nashville that they might take on Adam as a free agent, should he get there? So he's going to have his fair share of suitors. The other one that we're really curious about, and I said this in the opening segment of the show, like if it's going to cost $4 million to keep Dakota Joshua, I think that might be a pass for me. But, you know, the size speed combo is just something that's hard to find in the NHL and he's got it. And so I'm sure he's going to have quite a few teams after his services. - Yeah, absolutely. I think that, look, 13 years of the playoffs, well, you have eight points, four and four. I mean, he played well. You know when you notice, yeah, exactly. But when you notice him, you notice him. The unfortunate part is when you don't notice him, it's because he's not doing anything, not doing those things that he does so well in one game. It's a consistency in his game, right? And took some bad penalties in both the series. So it's another one. Like, I agree with what you said. I think the team's going to pay a pretty big penny for him. I mean, I know Quinn Hughes says there's no one, after one game, I can't remember this is regular season, near the end that there's no one like him. He might be right, but it's the Canucks job and the Canucks front office job to go and try and find someone for a cheaper than Dakota Joshua. I look at the guy's 28 years old. He's probably looking for term as well. This is his first contract where it's probably going to be some real money. So he's going to have to take a long hard look at this and say, okay, if the team's offering me say four or five million bucks over a couple of years, I'm probably going to take that, right? Whether then it's a two or three year deal here in Vancouver at low money, just because the fit's good and you like it here. I think you got to be smart about this if you're Dakota Joshua and I think the Vancouver Canucks are smart about it as well, right? He's 28 years old. Like how many more really good years are you going to get out of Dakota Joshua at a high price if you are going to pay that? - Well, and I think that's the thing. I mean, I was mentioning this in the opening segment. Like, I don't think the Canucks here are going to be overspaying for any of these guys. I think there has to be a level of, they have to take a little bit less to stay here if they want to be here. But I think, again, like Lindholm, they like Lindholm a lot. They view him as a high end piece. They gave up a lot to get him. He's considered a top line center when he's on top of his game, right? So like, that's how he's viewed. That's a bit different for some of these guys. And I think, you know, if the Canucks ever, if Jake Genssel gets a free agency and the Canucks have cap space, I see him being a player that the Canucks would be very interested in again, right? Because I think they would view him as someone, again, they were interested in that trade deadline, couldn't make that deal. And I think they were willing to look at something with him long term if possible. So I think they're willing to go big on some big name, guys. I don't know if they're willing to go big on any of the role players at all. Like, and that things the door of is, as much as Canucks fans love what he did in the playoffs. And same with Joshua, I still think, organizationally, they're more viewed as role players than, you know, a bonafide core big time pieces. - Well, absolutely. I mean, just look at it. Like you lose Brock Besser, you got to put Ilya McKayah, the guy I think scored in 60 plus games on your top line. - Yeah, the chance on his stick to, you know, put your team up one nothing in a pivotal game and he can't score, right? That these are just areas that you need to fix and you need to improve on. Tyler Tofoli's of the world. I mean, those types of players, scoring wingers, that's why I think a lot of people were disappointed at the deadline when the Canucks didn't do anything. And then they said we were really in on a lot of things, right? But the deal didn't really quite work out. I understand the big slashers made early. That was their guy, Elias Lindholm was their guy. And he turned out to be exactly what they needed and more. But there was another move, one or two, that you just wish that they would have done to just shore up that core, whether it was a top six winger or a bottom six guy, where you didn't have to see guys like this really called Coles and come into lineup, you know, where he only played seven minutes in the game that he appeared in. You know what I mean? So if you're getting guys that are out there, they're able to produce in the third and fourth lines, that's how you win and that's how you go deep into the playoffs. - I'll let Demko, I mean, it's unfortunate, but you think about the timeline. If Demko's injury happens a day earlier or a game earlier, then they have some L-T-I-R space to work with on the March 8th deadline, but. - It just shows you that everything can't go right for you wire to wire. At some point, things happen and timing is so important. And unfortunately for the Canucks, the timing of their injuries couldn't be worse. - Yeah, because like the Genssel one, I don't think they ever really had what Pittsburgh was looking for. They weren't really willing to give up what Pittsburgh was asking them for Genssel. And to fully have more came down to the money than anything else, but that's in the past. Let's continue focusing on the team in the here and now. And, you know, it's an unfair world we live in and people are going to have their say about Elias Patterson's playoff performance and even Queen Hughes to a certain extent, where, you know, I think, you know, Patterson, it's obvious he has just the one goal in the postseason. I mean, he was a talking point going back into the regular season. But I think Queen Hughes's performances towards the end of this playoff run were more noticeable and you certainly noticed the impact that Evan Bouchard was having on the series more so than Queen Hughes was able to have on the series against the Edmonton Oilers. Do we think those two players were dealing with something through this postseason run? - Well, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious. No, and I don't think it's an unfair world that we live in. Elias Patterson had one goal in 13 playoff games. In five assists, he had six points. There were games where his stat line was zero, zero, zero, zero, zero. You can't have that from your superstar player from the cornerstone of your franchise. So, yes, I mean, they were both battling something or had something going on. And you know, whether that was a significant injury, whether that was something that's involved during them for a little while. But the Elias Patterson thing, I mean, we go back to the All-Star game, the All-Star break. We talked about this every Tuesday since mid-January or February, where's Elias Patterson? When's he gonna show up? What's going on? What's happening with this game? Is he hurt? And everyone was just waiting for him to break out. He had that one goal, that one power play goal, right? And people were like, okay, well, he's gonna break out. Unfortunately, he didn't. And I understand you're probably gonna hear an injury come out on Thursday when, you know, the management meets with the media. But, you know, you expect to see more from him. Quinn Hughes, obviously, the Nashville series took a toll on him. I mean, you just watched and you know, saw those replay shots of him doubled over at the bench, him withering in pain. I mean, the Nashville Predators did their job on Quinn Hughes, you know, and he's a guy that still managed to have 10 points in 13 games. All assist, didn't score. But I think the biggest thing was he didn't really have that magic. He didn't have that zip. He gets in the blue line. He just kind of stood at the blue line. Yeah, he beat a few guys here and there. He wasn't selecting the puck down low. He wasn't doing things that Canucks fans and people around the league were used to seeing Quinn Hughes do. And I think that that was one of the biggest things when you looked at those two players, right? So interesting thing, I mean, I'm not gonna make injuries as an excuse for as to the reason why they lost, but they do play a big role. But that's not the reason why they only had two shots in the first period against Edmonton. Yeah, no, you're right. And I think obviously, Patterson had to be better. And obviously Quinn Hughes had to be better. Like Evan Bouchard was a better defenseman and Patterson was nowhere near the levels of McDavid and Drycidal, right? And there is a lot, not every injury is the same. Not every injury hinders you the same, right? So you can't just say what I'm about to say, you know, as a blanket statement, but you understand what I'm getting at. Drycidal and McDavid were banged up. They were still able to produce and bring something, right? McDavid was nowhere near 100%. But you still, no, it's McDavid, right? But still you saw him have a bottom line and still produce. That's something that Quinn and Patterson still have to learn. And part of it is learning through experience, going through these things, right? And I think if you're a fan, you either believe the player is gonna learn from this and get better, or you think what you've seen is an indication of him never figuring it out, right? And we know right now it's as hot around Patterson as it ever has been. But Earth, I don't think organizationally, they've lost any faith in the player. And I think if anything, they've viewed as learning experience, a player we still believe in, he has to get better. There are things he has to mature and handle better. He has to get stronger. Obviously, things he has to improve on. But I don't think there has been any wavering at all from the organization standpoint since he signed the contract extension, despite his struggles up until and through the postseason. - Well, I mean, even if there was, it's not like they publicly admitted, they just signed into a $92 million deal, right? I just don't think that, but we live in that world where that's ever gonna come out. I think that it was a disappointing postseason for him. I think he'll admit it. I think Rick talkie will admit it, and I think Patrick Alvin will admit it too. They need him to be better. - Yeah, but you don't give somebody $93 million, right? Without like, and you're gonna change your mind on it in six weeks. Like, you know what I mean? - No, I don't think so, right. Look, I don't think that they are. I agree with you on the learning experience, but they expected more. - Of course, of course. - Because we can't sit here and say that. Yeah, we can't sit here and say that at all. If Petey was having one or two or three or four bad games, they'd be like, "Ah, it's fine, don't worry about it." Like, they needed him to be that guy that they thought he was going to be, that did all of these things in his past, that showed, were the reason why he deserved the money when he did. And unfortunately, when the games got bigger, Julius Patterson wasn't really anywhere to be found. And I think that that's where the frustration comes in. With the fan base and a lot of people watching, even people that covered this team daily were like, "Whoa, when's this guy gonna break out of whatever he has?" Whether it's an injury or whether Ritaka did say, he's thinking the game too much and things like that, there's a lot more that the connexion gonna have to uncover as his summer goes on. It's gonna be a big summer and a long summer for Julius Patterson because of his performance. - Well, if he played more games than the playoffs than the way that he played game seven, I think I would have a much better feeling about Patterson moving forward. Like he was just-- - Game five and seven. - Yeah, he was too timid for too much of the playoffs, playing too much on the perimeter. Last night he took the high stick, but he still kept battling. And I think that's what most people just wanted to see more out of with Elias Patterson is have more battle. And I think that's why you hear the crowd cheering Connor Garland's name last night after he scores and why he won so many people over during the coast of the postseason because no matter the size differential, the guy was always in the mix. He was always trying to find a loose puck. He was causing Cody Sisi and whomever else, all these kinds of problems with the way that he fidgeted around and found way to shake pucks free in the offensive zone and just create havoc. And I wonder from the team's perspective too, knowing where the Garland conversation was at the start of the year, how much is this front office maybe change their minds on Connor Garland as a part of the future of the Vancouver Canucks. - Well, I think it's there. I think you got 110% out of Connor Garland. Everything that he had to give, he gave it to you in this postseason. You weren't getting any more from Connor Garland, but he's the guy that's always in the fight, right? He's the guy that is hard on pocket. There's no donkey Connor Garland, not at all. I think that, you know, when you look at it, that this is the player that they acquired, right? This is a guy and he just found himself here this season. Maybe it was the changing of agents early on in the season. He scored the team's first goal of the year against the Edmonton Oilers. He ends up scoring in their last game of the season against the Edmonton Oilers. But yeah, I mean, you know what you're going to get out of him. I think that's the biggest thing, right? He's going to be hard on Fox, but he's not like that guy, right? You need your top guys to be your top guys. Just even going back to your point then, like at least better said yesterday. I mean, yeah, he was plus one. He had 24 minutes ice and two shots on that. Like in a game seven, you want your guy to have at least five, right? I mean, JC, Connor Garland had three. - Yeah, two in the first period as a team. - I'm just saying, Pederson was more in the mix last night. Like, you know, I saw him in the blue paint. He threw a couple of big hits. - They're not paying him to reverse. They're not paying him to reverse hit guys. You're not paying him to be as Pederson to have five hits in a hockey game. You don't want that from him. And I understand you want him to feel engaged. You want him to get going. You're not paying him to do that. You're paying him to shoot the puck and score goals. And that's where the conversation needs to turn. - I'm just saying that's more of the player I wanted to see for the majority of the playoffs. Like, if he played like that, he would have had more than one goal in the entirety of these playoffs. If he played more like he did last night in the rest of the postseason. - So you want your superstar player running around and hitting people and not hitting the puck? - Well, no, he's doing a lot more than just that. Come on, get the guys ready. - He was really bad. If he played better, he would have been better. I mean, he was bad in games. He wasn't bad in games. And obviously, he has to be better than what he showed in game seven, I think. But yeah, I mean, hey, we're up against-- - He was never anywhere near what he should be. - We're up against the clock. We're up against the clock here, but quickly on Philip Peroni, who blinks first, the Canucks are ironic because all you hear from a Huronix campus, he wants eight million plus per year. And all we can surmise that Vancouver is not willing to go to eight million and above. So who's going to blink first on the Huronix thing? - Yeah, I know you and I started talking about this a lot. I don't think if you're not going to blink on this one, I don't see the need for them too. He's a restricted free agent. They've already made him an offer that they believe is fair. And from what the sounds of the offer was, it's a definitely fair offer for the Vancouver Canucks and for his comparables around the National Hockey League. - Erf, we appreciate the time as always. Thanks for this, bud. - All right, guys, be well. - I wanted to make some Scotty Scheffler jokes or something, but we'll have to save it for another time. - As you know, when the Canucks get to game seven of a second round, bigger stories to talk about locally. - Canucks playoff coverage is brought to you by Avenue Machinery and Douglas Lake Equipment. Get your keys to an all-star collection of Kubota products at one of their six locations across BC this spring, visit dleamc.com. We're going to have our color analyst, Randy Jand, to join us next on Canucks Central. - Hey, it's Mike Alford and Jason Bruff. Join us for Alford and Bruff in the morning, weekdays for 6 to 9 a.m. on Sportsnet 650. - Or on demand anytime through your favorite podcast app. (upbeat music) - We're back on Canucks Central, Dan Reachos, Satty R. Shaw, we're in the Kintec studio. And yeah, it's a day after the post-mortem on the Vancouver Canucks season. A successful season. We bring in color analysts for the Canucks here on Sportsnet 650 to the conversation. Joining us in studio, because we're round table guys here, it's Randy Jand. - I was waiting for the drop, I'm not going to lie. I've been listening. - Round table guys. - Do we all feel kind of hung over today? Just not because we drank, but just because of the playoff game and waking up probably a little later. - Yeah, going to bed late, waking up late, and kind of like, I woke up early. I was having nightmares about Zadora, blocking Miller's shot. (laughing) - It makes me know, get out of the way. - It was a controller disconnected. - It was a night of like, conflicting feelings, right? Because as you said, it was such a great season. And honestly, a privilege to be part of a playoff run to get through two rounds after having a playoff drought for so long. And as a station, we haven't had a chance to truly cover a playoff series that's live in the flesh. The last one was in the bubble, right? So it was an incredible journey. We had an extraordinary time. Our listeners have been fantastic. It's been a lot of fun doing this, but also disappointing because the Connects had two chances to close out Edmonton and they didn't do it. Now Edmonton, give them credit. They were the better team in game six and seven, and their star players showed out and they deserved to move on to the Western Conference final, but it was there for the taking and the Connects couldn't seize it. - Yeah, and with Vancouver, they had their opportunities, right? Like early on in that game, we were just talking about it off air as well. It's like, yeah, we're going to focus on the McCabe one, which is the big one, but there's a couple of the looks. At least Patterson has one, right? There's the moments were there. And you mentioned, yeah, the stars did play better for Edmonton, but not in game seven. Game seven, they didn't really do all that much, right? - So Bouchard was their best player? - He was the best defenseman in the series and credit to him. They found a way to beat Artur, she loves. They were working off that right point a lot. But yeah, you didn't have McDavid. So that's why it's kind of the bittersweet where it's been a successful season. You're happy about hockey being relevant and a happy experience in the city. Like people fell in love with the game again in the team, but there could have been a little bit more. And that's why it's a bittersweet moment. - Well, it's disappointing because Edmonton beat you by playing a better team game in game six and seven. And I thought that was the advantage the Canucks had over the Oilers going into the series. - Honestly, man, I think you have to give the players credit, of course, for executing, but give the coaching staff an Edmonton credit. Chris Knoblock was some of the adjustments they made in game six and seven, how the players responded and how they won the battles, right? Now, I think-- - Adjusting where they took their shots from, too, in the series. - They did, they really did. And you know, people were laughing at Knoblock a lot throughout this series and criticizing him. We were talking about how he seemed like a guy at times, like, no, frustrated, and it was early in the series. But I pushed back when people were asking, is talk it out coaching Knob like him? Like it's early in the series, you don't know. And I'm not saying he outcoached on the totality of the series, but it's about who makes the final adjustment that works out and Edmonton did, right? - They did, they brought in, you know, a depth player who actually made a little bit more balance to the bottom six, so when you start looking at that third line for them to say, okay, there's a little bit more speed there, right? The team speed with the final adjustments that Knoblock made, those were good. Guys, Nursisi, we were talking about that at the beginning of the series. You turn away from that and a problem pair turns into one that, you know, maybe you're guarding with day RNA and nurse a little bit, so that problem pair, you didn't really necessarily see it because they were split up and there was a little bit more balance there. I thought those two things combined where more team speed, splitting up those defense men, you're able to move the puck up quicker yourself, you're not getting caught by the forecheck, and what happens, you know? So Knoblock with those two adjustments and then you add a little bit more in your fourth line with Carrick, which is good in the draws and that sort of thing. Not earth shattering, but sometimes when you wanna win the bottom six, those types of things matter, guys. - Well, and reach, you know what? You notice this on the rewatch, especially on Dakota Joshua, right? How they attack that in the neutral zone, Edmondson, right? So the Canucks love to make that play where it's kind of a hook and ladder almost. They hit Dakota Joshua, holds up, that he hits the guy coming with speed. They had two guys on Joshua the entire time. He saw it in Game 6, but especially Game 7. And as good as Dakota Joshua is, he's not a top line, hands type of guy, right? So if he's trying to stick handle through two guys and feather a passover, he's probably not gonna make that connection and the Canucks couldn't adjust to that. Like they took away the play they wanted to make through the neutral zone and they were never able to generate anything off the rush because of it. - Yeah, that's a great point. And Dakota Joshua, with him, you know, I think there's been a lot of positives this year, but that was one area where you're saying, all right, if you're taking away your signature move, so to speak, what are you gonna do after? And they weren't able to do that. But I think part of this is also the narrative around Noblock is he's very different from Rick Talking. The way he speaks, not the most exciting individual. He's not a guy that's gonna get into story time. Like Rick Talking does. He's gonna actually limit his words quite a bit. Like sitting in a lot of his press conference here in Vancouver and in Edmonton, guys, this guy is going to give you just enough. Or as Rick is, you know, a very open book, right? We love him for that here in Vancouver. But I think there's also that element of, all right, there's one guy that's going to just, he's very, you know, very, by the book and nothing more. So there's an element of, okay, one guy is a little bit more approachable than this guy is not. Let's side with, I thought Noblock did a good job, but he just doesn't give you that much more. He's got his cards close to his chest. - Whatever he said in that time out last night, got his players to completely come off of their heels and start taking the game back to the Canucks. Be a little bit more aggressive in defending it. And, you know, the Canucks don't get another shot on net after the Corona goal. - I was gonna say though, one player for sure really bought into that. I was born fogle. - Oh man. - Hey, man, like honestly that battle, they were able to get a change. - One on three. - Yeah, and that killed momentum. So there's two key moments in that game for me. One is that one, and the other one is the four minute power play, right? You talk about taking away momentum for the Canucks. Those are the two payments. - I mean, it's a, it's a, honestly, one of the most dreadful power plays that I've seen. It took him two and a half minutes to get a shot attempt. And it was Philip Veronix scying it into the net to get deflected, right? So we didn't even get on goal. The best chance was, was it the brown, corner, brown breakaway where she loves made the save. And they had more shots on goal than the Canucks did. On a four minute power play. - Yeah, it was absolutely pitiful. - I really don't know what else to say because that's exactly my feelings on it. It crushed the game. There was two moments to me where the Canucks sort of lost it. And one, like I actually, on rewatch, nobody wants to hear this, but on rewatch I actually felt better about the Canucks performance. I felt more frustrated, but also better about how they played overall 'cause they had looks, they had moments, they had opportunities, they just did a very bad job of taking them, especially early on. It felt like the message, when I rewatched it, it felt like the message was, let's go out and get the first goal in the five, in the first five minutes. And then we can play on that. And they had their chances. Sure, they gave the collect chance coming back the other way, but you had Garland get a couple of looks. McKay have got his looks. Miller had that shot from the low circle, Pedersen standing in front. He's unable to bang in the rebound. McKay have even found a pass out to Pedersen centering it and it just comes off the heel of Pedder, the toe of Pedersen's stick. Like they had looks and that's what was so frustrating, but it's sort of a theme in some of the, well, certainly in the playoffs, but also games going back into the season where the Canucks had looks, but weren't able to get shots on net. Like how many losses, and there weren't a ton of losses that we have to go back on, did Rick talk and come out after the game? Yeah, we just kept missing the net. We couldn't get shots through. I think there was the five one LA game the Canucks had like less than 20 shots. They had well over 50 shot attempts. And it happened in the Washington loss to one at home on home ice. You lose to the Washington Capitals. You had all kinds of shot attempts that night. Couldn't get enough of them on net, but this was especially after the all-star break, a reoccurring theme for the team where they would get zone time, they had opportunities, they had shot attempts, just not enough getting onto the net. Well, one of two things was either happening. I remember for that stretching the regular season, it felt like they're trying to pick corners, right? And even elements of that in the Nashville series where it felt like they're maybe trying to just go a specific way and they just weren't able to get the right shot. They were waiting for that perfect shot. And this is a team that goes for quality over quantity. Understand that. But guys, you had a goaltender that was not confident at all. The third period shows that. Five shots on goal, he allows two goals. So again, all that zone time they had in the third period, they only get five shots on that point. Right, this is a guy that I thought for the last two games, he was fragile, I don't wanna say mentally because we don't know, but you didn't test him. You didn't put him in that spot to be like, all right, let's see what he is. And there's a lot of positives to come out of this season, but I think the final two games and missing the net is big in game seven, but just putting yourself in a position to ask questions of Stuart Skinner, we saw he wasn't confident and going against Dallas, like they're probably gonna lose that battle in net, right? Unless he steals a series somehow, I don't see him bouncing back. I just didn't think the Canucks asked enough questions of him in the final two games. Did he do it enough throughout the entire playoffs? They didn't, no. It's just, I get what their offense was predicated on and you lose Besser, you lose another element of, that's one of the few high end elements of your offense. And think about last night, how many big chances for the Canucks ended up on the sticks of guys that you wouldn't consider, bowl scores, right? McKayev, a number of chances fall to his stick. The Lafferty chance, I mean, he's in such a dangerous position and he skates it into the most und dangerous position. It was the ultimate catch and release moment. You've got a pretty good shot, catch that thing, shoot it. If he makes the save, he makes the save. Zadorov has one, goes over the net. Phil Dijazepa with the break away, he even had another couple of chances. Like they hit that wheel. Tyler Myers had one as well. Yeah, they hit that wheel play a couple of times where, you know, they kind of do a one, two. There's a guy below the goal line and somebody, one of the wingers wheels out to just below the circle, right? And we've seen Brock score on that. How many times this year? But if it's Brock shooting it, it's one thing. If it's Phil Dijazepa or really McKayev, it's, you know, it's a completely different story. But boys, that's the conversation here, right? We're talking about players playing out of place in the lineup and that happens in the playoffs all the time. Yeah, you have to overcome injuries. You have to, but it also speaks to the depth that is required. Like when we talk about the future here and what you need, you need, you need a couple of scoring wingers, right? And that's the reality of the situation where you lose Brock Besserne. Unfortunately, you got to go to a guy that hadn't scored one goal in 60 years. Well, and that's a tough, that's a tough depth situation. Like knob lock, we talk about knob lock diversifying the, the Oilers offense. You know, they, they almost dumbed it down to a certain, because like she loves just making all the crazy saves, but the ones from the point is where it is what he struggled with. The tracking, the tracking was an issue. Yeah. And, and they made that adjustment. They scored a bunch of shots from, from the point, but the Canucks, it's like, I can understand wanting to, to have Rick Talkett maybe diversify the Canucks offense to a certain extent, but it's like, did, did you have the talent to be able to do that? Plus your number one D man is playing it clearly less than 100% not able to do what he normally did. Like it just felt a lot more difficult for the Canucks to diversify their offense in the way the Oilers did. I think when we talk about depth, to me the whole idea of depth is you need a high end for depth to matter, right? So the difference to me is teams that go far have a higher end. And the Canucks just didn't have a sharp enough edge, especially when Besser goes out. Now it's only one game, but you know, you don't have Besser either. Now even when you had Besser, there was no winger for Patterson on his, on his leisure, right? And the way Garland and Joshua play, that's an ideal kind of third line setup with the way things were going, right? And I think Garland played really well, but like who's a scorer that's going to play along Patterson, they didn't have that. They were trying to acquire a Genssel they couldn't get to Foley, they couldn't get, right? But they tried. And I look at Genssel, this offseason for instance, and we were talking about the power play ever since they Bo Horvak got traded. They missed that left handed shooter in the bumper spot. That's also really good at retrieving pucks. That's something Genssel's really good at. Good at shooting the puck, playing the bumper spot, he's creative, he can also dig pucks out. Like you add Genssel, I think that power play is going to take off. Plus he's speedy, plus he four checks the way this team wants. Yeah, he's going to be a little bit of like 29 years old. He's not the biggest player, but he's a really effective hockey player. Like to me, if you look at the answer, there are some answers here. So if you look at what the connects biggest problems were, it's a power play and also finding somebody that can play with the latest Patterson, right? - Yeah. - On defense, it felt good about how they played. And to me, it's also a testament of their structure and what they want to be. So on defense, I think you feel pretty good about being able to piece it together. To me, is can you find those answers offensively? 'Cause at the end of the day, it's the lack of that edge, the offensive edge, that costs them in the postseason. - There's actually a balance in the city when you look at defense and the style that you want to play, right? So you'd speak to the defense for years. It was, you have to do one or the other in this city, right? Well, there's the Boudreau or the Travis Green kind of, you're searching to get a little bit more and then you end up giving it up defensively because you can't find that balance. For once, during the regular season anyways, they have that. But yeah, how can you stick with the big boys? And you brought up the Retrievals. That was, we talked about the zone entries a lot on the PowerPoint. The Retrievals were a real problem in the series because you had Edmonton winning, I would say the majority of the battles guys, right? - Yeah, 100%. - Tracking proc battles in every single game, Edmonton was winning more than 50%, right? And that was an issue, especially when you have more guys out there and-- - Well, that's supposed to be the Canucks identity for winning those battles. - And for sure, Edmonton, to their credit, we can say whatever you want about Day Harnay and Nurse and all those guys, the penalty killers, they won those battles. So that need high skill, 100%. And Jake Genssel, who knows what his price is. I'm not gonna imagine or try to think-- - Probably a $60 million contract or they're abouts. - Yeah, you're looking at-- - Free agency. - You're looking at what, nine times seven, probably? - Something like that. - 60, 63. - Maybe a little bit short of nine, but we'll see where it ends up. It's gonna be expensive. - If you're trying to look for high skill and that element, it's not gonna come cheap, right? So, where do you take the cut from? - Yeah, at least I think we know that they see the problem. They see the issue. They saw the issue at the deadline as-- - Yeah, it's clear what they're looking for. - Yeah, but they've got a lot of other decisions to make as well on this roster. - You don't say. - I think maybe the most interesting one is the restricted free agent, Philopronic. Because yeah, like Lynn Holman would be nice to keep Lynn Holman, but you can go back into next year with Miller and Patterson as your top two centers and figure it out, you know? Lynn Holman is one I think you can be okay with moving on from, even though we like the fit, especially in the postseason. All the other guys like Joshua, I'll do respect, like still secondary core players. Ronik is a guy that played a big part of your roster this year, was a first pair defenseman viewed as when they acquired him or feels like when they acquired him. A guy that is the long term fit for Quinn Hughes. And as much as that is huge for this team, it's also like, you see where the warts are as a player over the course of '82 and a little bit of the playoffs as well? And it's like, I know that's not an eight million dollar defenseman, so you've got a really difficult question to answer with Philopronic now. - It was two seasons for Philopronic. What he was doing at the beginning of the year looked like he was gonna be a 70 to 80 point defenseman and the second half, which was nowhere near that, right? So was he, and it's not only about points guys, are he able to influence the game the right way? And I thought Philopronic wasn't able to do that in the second half of the season. There is chemistry there with Quinn Hughes. Does Quinn Hughes love playing with him? From what I understand, absolutely he does, but this is the dollars and cents. Everybody's got a walk away price. And for Philopronic, and I know you guys have talked about this in the past as well, how comfortable, let's just say you get young players graduating through the system and you find somebody on the right hand side who the Canucks may have in their system to play on the right hand side and say, hey, Philop, we need you to lead a second pair. How comfortable are you doing that right now? - So, especially when you attach an eight million dollars, right? - Yeah, I think you just nailed it. I like Philopronic. He's not a number two, he's maybe more of a number three. And hey, a number three is solid, but is it a guy that's gonna carry his own pair? - No. - Now, if you play him with somebody who's a number four, three and a four, okay, fine, that's two quality defense on playing together. - Like, would SUSI-Heroonic be a solid second pair? - Yeah, I think you'd be decent. - At what price though is a question, right? - That's the thing. - That's the big one, right? So there's a huge difference between an eight million dollar and-- - That's an 11 million dollar second pair if you give him eight million dollars. - Yeah, I just almost 12 million dollars. - I just can't see the organization giving him eight. - Now, if you're saying, hey, we want you to replace what Tyler Myers was making, six, six and a half, I'm for that, that's a second pair of defense men, you're essentially, but obviously, if you can command more in the free market, you're not gonna agree to that. - But the other problem, well, the other hurdle, speed bump, whatever you wanna call it, like, they already have to replace half of the defense. That's even if you keep and retain it, Phillip Peronik, you've still got, well, I guess Noah Juleson's there, so you at least need two more defense men that you've gotta go out and find, whether that's Myers Cole, probably want to like, maybe try to find an upgrade, you know, for as good as those guys were for you this year, they're both into their mid 30s, how much longer can they keep it up? Like, this is the issue with the off season. It's like, you don't just wanna get back to where you've been this year, you need to find another level. And it's pretty clear, like, you've almost maxed out. I think they could have beaten Edmonton, just with a little bit more execution, but it's hard to imagine either the Oilers or the Canucks beating the Dallas Stars and where they are as a true cup contender. - I think generally, it's team improvement is viewed very narrowly, like it's a narrow view of like, well, if you need to be better, you have to keep the current guys you have and add more. That is a way of getting better, but it's not the only way of getting better. Another way of getting better is, well, yeah, don't bring all those guys back, but how about you find better players? - Yeah. - Guys, you can do that. - You can't do that. - A performing contract. - Exactly, right? And if you're, you're right, all the guys here that are UFA and RFAs, almost all of them outperform their contract. If you pay them for the performance of their contract, it's gonna be tough 'cause you're not gonna have a lot of surplus value on your contract. - That's a thing you're contracting a lot of ways. - Right, and if you're gonna pay guys to give you value, I don't think you're paying the four, five million dollar range guys. You go and pay the eight, nine million dollar guy, that's gonna make a big difference. So I think, to me, it's the pathway to get better isn't so much bringing everybody back. It's finding a couple of players at a higher end, and that's what's gonna take you to the next level. It's gonna be hard, we're heroic, because here's a catch 22. I'm all for moving him if he's gonna hold on to eight million, but finding a quality right hand defense that I can put up points is very hard to find. So that's a catch 22, that it's not as easy to replace Heronic, but given that there are a few RFA free agents, and given that I don't think this organization's gonna be paying guys too much, like especially like, they like Heronic, well again, I don't think they're paying eight million, so if he's gonna hold on to eight million, I think they would take their chances of trying to land somebody who's a free agent. Now I know TANF's gonna demand a lot of money, but there are other guys, Brett Pesche is another player, Matthew Roy is another player, that there are guys out there that are quality right hand defensement, so the Canucks have options here if they can't agree to a contract with Heronic. - On the Heronic front though, with Devon Taves, the number was 7.25, right? He took less, he was gonna command more in the UFA market, to stay in Colorado to play next to a special player. What is that compromise for Phillip Heronic? Because we know he can command more, so good Devon Taves. What is that number for Phillip Heronic? Because you're right, Sat, like in terms of a player and getting a right shot on defensement, like remember prior to Phillip Heronic, that was the search, that was the holy grail for the Canucks, they were trying to find a puck moving defensement for years, so that number is, if you're aiming for eight and you're saying winning team, you're playing next to a guy that is going to make you look good as well and gonna get you some money, is that number around Taves? - Honestly, the total money should be around 50 million bucks, 50 to 54 million at the high end, the real high end. - Taves signed a seven year contract, right? - 7.25. - 7.25, so that's still about, you know-- - 50 million bucks. - 50 million dollars, right? - And that was signed a couple years ago. - A couple years ago. - No, no, this past season, wasn't it, heading into this offseason? - Yeah, the kicks in this year, yeah. - I think so, you're right, right? - Yeah. - And the guy that I look at is, direct comparable, similar age ranges and everything, but this guy signed a UFA contract, doesn't even have an RFA year, would be a little bit cheaper, Damon Seaberson signed a eight year deal worth 6.25 million per season. Now, he's a little bit older, only a year or so older at the time he signed the contract. Again, UFA throughout the entire thing, his career high in goals, 11. - Yeah. - Her own X career high is under 10, I think it's nine or eight. Career high end points, 46, Rhona Cat, what, 44, Rhona Cat 48, right? So 46, 40, only two points difference. And Seaberson, you can make the cases better defensively than Philip Rhona is. - That's a direct comparable, so what has her own done that should have him earn about 10 to 15 million dollars more on his contract than Damon Seaberson? Like, I just don't see it. So to me, it's actually under seven, but if you go like say seven times eight, for instance, maybe that's the, that's the kind of, but to me, like even that compared to Seaberson would be a massive overpayment comparable to what the market rate for that type of player was just this past off season. - Yeah, when he was racking up the points, I think Devon Taves was the one you look at to say, all right, if this guy continues to go at this level, you're gonna be in that range, the drop off in the second half of the season, I think undercut that ceiling a little bit. Now, the question is, does Alan Walsh believe the exact same thing? Do you feel like you can get that money in Columbus or another market that's desperate for high quality players and have all the cap room, right? All it takes is that one team down the road. - Well, it really depends on her own. Does Veronic want to go and get as much money as he can anywhere, or does he want to stay here? And I mean, we're talking about, yeah, maybe he has to four go five, six, seven million of total money on the contract. To some people, it's worth it. Maybe to him, it's not, right? And there will be options for all the talk about, yeah, he's got a ARB case coming up too, potentially, and it's UFA at the end of the year, the connection in a tough spot. There are teams that need ready to fence them. - Yeah. - Right? - I don't think Utah has a defenselessment under contract. - No, and maybe that's where, that's why-- - That's why I'm Jersey. - They've got some RFAs, but they don't have anybody actually under contract. - And maybe that's what Alan Walsh knows. Sometimes agents, when they hold hard lines like this, is because they have an indication of somebody being willing somewhere to give them what they want. - And that's all it takes, one person, doesn't have to be four or five teams going after you. It's all it takes one guy willing to do that. - On the opposite side though, if your team management, you're also saying, hey, we've built something that the rest of the NHL is now looking at to say, Rick Tockett's probably gonna win the Jack Adams award. There's a culture internally that set. Do you wanna be a part of this thing or not, right? There's a lot more leverage with this organization than they had 365 days ago. And that matters, and sometimes that can give you a bit of a haircut and a deal as well. - Matthias Michelli for Filopronic, who says no? - I'm gonna just, you're gonna send all season saying Matthias Michelli. - Clayton Keller for Filopronic, who says no? I think probably Utah. - Utahs, they need, if they get rid of him, who do they have to sell? - It's a good question, maybe Mitch Marner. - Morgan Cooley, I guess, yeah. - Maybe, maybe Mitch Marner. Utah's gonna be really interesting this offseason just as a quick aside. I actually lied, they do have a defenseman under contract. Shay Weber, how could I forget? - Oh, Shay Weber is still under contract for the Utah Utahs. It's Dan Riccho, Satyarsha. Fancy this little hoodie you're wearing here. - It's like a summer hoodie. It's a, went to the all-star game last year. - Yeah. - The western, I'm wearing the Eastern Conference one. The Western one was- - The Western one was- - The biased guy. - Yes, it says you. (laughing) The Western Conference design wasn't all that great. So, decided to, it's a fun color, you know how it is. - So, Randy Janna, team Eastern Conference confirmed. Can't go for the Oilers, can't go for the stars. So, we're going Eastern Conference on this one. - Final thing before we go. How'd you enjoy your first full season as Canucks color analyst? - Well, second. - Second. - Second. - Second. - Second. - I actually enjoyed it. - Well, first for playoffs, I guess. - Yeah, first, playoffs obviously took it over just next level, guys, and it kind of felt like the official first year on the job though, 'cause it was just- - Yeah, something different about it. - If you remember last year, it was kind of a weird year getting started. But let's be honest, it was a bit of a gong show here, right? So, it was like- - I didn't want to highlight it. We didn't really have a deal in place. - You're the color, guys. So, you have to have a little bit more finesse. I can say it was a bit of a clown show, right? So, it didn't feel like, you know, it was- - I was just going to say, I still live in a time warp where COVID and things happen, so I don't know. All the years are just molded together. - Honestly, since this new regime's taken over, I know it was some uneasy times, the Boudreau thing or whatever, right? But they were proven right in terms of moving off and the coach moving on to new coach. But it's turned since then. But man, it's been some tough years here, guys. - Dude, and this year, I'm not going to lie, this year was awesome. Just having the experience of calling games, just hitting the ground running with training camp and all of that, being able to take part in the playoffs, like this year, it felt right. Last year, it was, team started off terribly this year. Vancouver's the talk of the country in the league for the right reasons, and to be able to experience that with everybody here. Everybody in the city, like, we talked about it earlier, guys, like Canucks hockey was the it thing again in the city in a while, man, it's been a while. So anytime we can hang out together and watch hockey, like we do, where it's reach you, filling in or the pregame shows are sad, like we see each other every home game, what else can you ask for? So live in the dream, boys. - And let's hope for more nights like that at Rochester Arena next year, because the building was just incredible. - And honestly, man, like what end on this though, but like the building coming alive again. And a generation of Canucks fans who never knew what it was like. And even for us who have been here through a couple of generations now of teams, that was different. Like the building has never quite been like that. Like obviously in 2011, the run, there were some loud nights of course, but never quite like that early in the playoffs the same way it was. Like I remember game seven against the Blackhawks go into it, it was insane, but it was also a lot of nervous energy heading into that game. But the way the building popped these playoffs was just something I've never seen before in this city. - When you win a playoff round in this city, and I'm sure this is the case for other cities, but growing up in this city, living in this city, it's moments like that create fans. Whether it was '94, whether it was 2011, whether it was the West Coast Express, winning a round just creates a new generation of fans. And that's why seeing a certain generation, like 18, 19 year old kids, essentially, just at the rink exciters, like, all right, this is kind of like a cross-generational experience. That was cool to see, especially what it's been, really 12, 13 years since the last time it happened properly. So awesome experience, guys. We'll still get to see you on Saturday night talking night in Canada, Punjabi. - Yeah, I've been ditching that show for the last two weeks. I'm back on it this week. And until the cup is awarded, I'll be there. - Great to hear. Thanks, man. - Cheers, boys. - Have a good 'em. - There he is, Randy, Janda, Mr. Dudsoda. And, well, follow him on Twitter, Instagram, and the like. And of course, on Hockey Night in Canada, Punjabi, during the playoffs as well. We'll be back with more on the Canucks and wrap up this show, the post-mortem on the Canucks season. Stan Reicho, Satyar Shah, Canucks Central.
