(upbeat music) - Van Marnico, fourth time 5.90, the Van, Ben, Dennis, friend gunning, did you have a great Victoria day? - It was, it was good, did you see fireworks? - No, I heard them though. - Yeah, I heard a lot of fireworks. - I'm out of the firework marketplace, like three year old child, I'm clear out of fireworks until I think what, eight, something like that? - No, I mean, seven, five, six. - It feels like three years old is right in the meaty part of the fireworks curve. I'm out of the fireworks game because last July 1st, I bought fireworks, and I spent a couple hundred bucks. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And I was like, oh, I remember this. - It's very good, right? And you know, you know how it goes with those fireworks where it's like, okay, a couple hundred bucks will get you a good 25, 30 minutes. And like the last ones were pretty good. - Yeah. - But then some guy, it must work for like kaboom or something, literally backed his truck into the park. - Love that. - After my 25 minute show was done, and he literally had, it must have been $10,000 worth of fireworks. - Good job by that guy, obviously. - And lit them all up at the same time, and it was like, oh, this guy is a ball of flame. So I was like, that was a waste of time. Won't do that, I look, I feel like a child. - Yeah, I'm just thinking about this now. Like, I guess like very special occasions, but like we gotta mix in winter fireworks. Like it's like, you know, the sun set so much earlier. It's like, there's a lot more time for fire working. And this isn't, don't take this as like, oh, don't shut off your fireworks. I don't care. Go set off your fireworks at midnight. I, this is not, don't take this as that PSA for me, but I just think like we have so much more time for fire working in the winter. Like, how many times is it 542 and it's pitch black? And you're going, well, what are we gonna do? Certainly not go to bed. We should fire work. - Buddy, this is like on the short list of one of your best takes ever. - I don't, that feels like a compliment, but it's not. - No, it is not. No, it's a compliment. - It's a compliment. - Yeah, no, it's really good because you're right because it gets dark at 4.30. - It's like, oh, it's one in the afternoon and it's pitch black in January. One of my things was, oh, you know, I gotta get the six-year-old to bed last night. - Right, this is the problem. - And it's nine o'clock, well, one, it's barely dark at that time. And yeah, is here in the fireworks go off? It's difficult to go to sleep. - Yeah. - No problem with them watching fireworks at five in the evening in the middle of February. - Make it a thing. - Holy cow, big firework gets on the line here. - Yeah, not all even be the spokesman. I could do the PSA right now. - Are you tired of waiting until 9.35 for the sky to be dark enough to set it in flames? I give you winter fireworks. - I mean, secondarily to that, you know, you have to have the bucket of sand for the firework. - It feels so much safer. - You got the snow? - Yeah. - You just jam it in the, I love it. - God. - No, it's a great idea. - Anyways, we played glory off the top because we're gonna talk a lot about Craig Baruba. - Yeah. - Which, by the way, you can listen and watch his introductory news conference today on Sportsnet 590, the fans, Sportsnet Ontario, starting at 11 o'clock today. Jeff Merrick gonna get you set for that. We will get to that. You know what, we'll play Redhall later on today. His interpretation is rendition. - Oh, wait, we have, we have Redhall. ♪ Glory, Gloria ♪ ♪ Gloria ♪ ♪ Gloria ♪ ♪ I think I got you number ♪ ♪ Gloria ♪ - If I've learned nothing else over my lifetime of watching Stanley Cup champions is that you do have to have like a theme song that'll carry you through the day. - Theme song, like a sick child can occasionally help along the way. - Some sort of narrative. - There's has to be something along that. It's impossible for me to think about this after hearing, again, just like the Sinatra-esque pipes on Redhall there is who, like from recent-ish leafs lore, 'cause it's like Johnny Bauer, "Dearly Departed." You know, he would have loved to have got on stage and like belted out a song, but it's like Tucker. Like, but it's like-- - All those guys, Tucker, Gilmore, Wendell, they're all around. - Yeah, come on, let me talk about it. - It's not that there are not some obvious guys. - It's not that they're not around. It's just who would most likely have, I don't know, like 10 more beers that you want them to in public and start belting it out. - I don't know. - I think I just, I did it by three guys. - I think you did too. - Yeah. - Anyways, we'll get to think Marouba-- - There's like a persona on Grata from the like, Jay's championship teams, like drinking beers and yelling in public, count me in. - Yeah. - All right, we'll get to Craig Marouba, lots today. But let's start with the Edmonton Oilers advancing to their second conference final in the last three years with a 3-2, didn't need to be as thrilling as it was, victory over the Vancouver Canucks, in Vancouver, in game seven. I mean, they looked like they knew they were the better team, especially in the opening 20 minutes, but for the opening 50 plus, 13-2 were shots on goal in the first period. They were up three-nothing in the hockey game, couple of goals from defenseman from the point, then archer's she-lofts has been the story of the postseason for the Vancouver Canucks. And then the the power play goal ends up the game winner, connects with the couple of goals late to make it interesting, but, okay, there's, Leon Dries, I don't set it, and he's right, it's copper bust, but there's degrees here, man. Like, it's a disappointment if the Edmonton Oilers don't beat the Dallas Stars in advance of the Stanley Cup final, and if they do that, it's a disappointment, if they don't win the Stanley Cup. But this is, there's degrees. You did at least the bare minimum where it's like, they're gonna be underdogs. I think Vegas is gonna have them, I haven't checked, they absolutely should be, underdogs against that good Dallas Stars team with the goaltending advantage pretty clearly. - Yeah, they will be, I guess, you know, I know they missed the playoffs, but I think they're now more successful than the Austin Matthews Leafs. Two conference final trips, I think I'm gonna give them that one. The other thing I look out with this, and man, there's just so many ways to go at it, it's like, you know, Cody CC scoring the first goal of a game seven in which your team wins. Obviously, we all know that is a thing that can happen in the NHL, you know, Hyman ends up, I think getting credit for one of them, they change it late. But you look at what happens with that team and the path that's in front of them, and that's not to say that it was a cake walk over the Canucks or anything along those lines, they ran into the hot goalie and they were able to find a way to beat him. So I don't take, I don't do that to diminish credit from them, but when you look at your path, it's a Kings team that you've owned, and a Canucks team that's ahead of, maybe not ahead of schedule, but just arriving to this place. - And without its leading score in game seven in Brock Besser. - And without their best player throughout the entire series in Thatcher, Dhamko. Now you, I don't know how much you get to hold that one up 'cause I hope that sea lofts has been, but that it certainly matters a little bit that you're right. This is the floor of what was acceptable. Now, it's not to say that when the season started, it was conference final. Dry Saddle says copper bust, okay, good. That's the attitude you want them to have. I think there was a world where they could have not made a conference final and you could have still said, okay, that was a fine season. But when that's your path, the Canucks and the Kings, if you're gonna have those two guys at the peak of their powers and everything there, then you have to find a way to get there. And again, I don't think they can limp out against Dallas. I don't think they can go out and for, and we go, well, they're conference finalists. I think we certainly have some things to say about that. But yeah, I think if they lose to Dallas in a respectful conference final, it's kind of a, yeah, this is what you're supposed to do. - Yeah, and it is. Listen, I guess if you were gonna, if you were going to poo poo this advancement to a conference final, you'd say you were down 3-2 in this series to a Vancouver Canucks team without Thatcher, Demko, and then a game seven where it got dicey where it was all, you were in complete control. - So I don't think you can use that to poo poo the conference final, but I do think you can use it to say it's an easy path. Like, I don't think there's such a thing as poo poo a make-air conference final. I just don't. You went two rounds and stayed in the cup playoffs. I'm gonna shake your hand. Patch on the button. I'm gonna tell you a good job, but I also think you do have to look at paths and stuff, and I know everyone's gonna win. - But there's also eye tests. - Yep. - There's also eye tests. Like that power play was a dominant, okay? The penalty kill at the end of the Canucks series was a dominant in the four minute penalty kill that they had at the end of the first period where the Canucks literally did not have a shot on goal and it was Connor Brown's breakaway shorthand that was the best chance of that sequence. The way the stars at times have just taken over the game now, not yesterday, notable that Connor McDavid held entirely off the score sheet. But yeah, I would say being in that situation down three, two with your number one goalie being like mercifully removed from the series at times and then reinserted into game six and seven. Like, I think eye test wise, they looked the part. - I, can I like give you a TBD until I see them play a real team in the Dallas stars? Like, I don't disagree. No, no, come on. Like, we know what the Canucks are. The Canucks are a good team. They're a good team. They are not, if we're gonna sit here and live in a world and I don't live in this world. So I live in a world where at the start of every playoffs, there are, I don't know, as many as 10 teams that I think can win the Stanley Cup this year. I could have included that to be a way bigger group. But if you're somebody, and we've talked to a lot of somebody's on the show this year who go, come on, four teams are gonna win this thing. Like it's gonna be Vegas, it's gonna be, the Canucks are not part of, if you are a, if you are a only a handful of teams can win this thing, person, I don't think that, for me, the Canucks are not in that group of teams. So I'm not saying that, the four teams still alive, I think, yes, the four teams that you might have picked. - I, it got into your head. - I think you very well might have. I probably would have thrown Vegas in there, but you're right. - Right, and they had, yeah. - Exactly. - Yeah, their path. - Nobody was throwing the Canucks in. If you were somebody that thought only four or five teams could win, unless you reside in BC, you were not saying the Canucks were among that group. So again, they don't say this to diminish what the Oilers are doing, but I think there is going to be a, and rightfully so, they're gonna be underdogs, the level jump that they are gonna see from what they've seen in the first two rounds of this playoffs to now is, forget night and day. It's like, I don't know, more stark than night and day, whatever that is, that's impossible. - No, those are the two most. - I was like, I was like, so ready to have some, I was like, night and. - Yeah, more winter and summer. - Winter fireworks. - Yeah, I don't know. - Space and Earth, there you go, that's better. - Okay. - All right. - You understood? - Yeah, no, I got it. Okay, and finally, Rick Talkett, when it was all said and did have to admit that this was a team that exceeded expectations. - Right. - Had an overwhelmingly successful year, especially considering they spent the last three on the outside of the playoffs, looking in, and maybe that's proof of concept for Craig Barube, that he was the real differentiating factor between a Canucks team that missed the playoffs last season and won the one that division this year and took a very good Edmonton Oilers team to seven games in the second round with their third string backup goalie, which brings us to Craig Barube. Again, 11 o'clock today, Sportsnet 5'9 in the fan, Sportsnet Ontario, he will be introduced as the new head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. The Leafs doing us a really big favor, dropping that on Friday of a long weekend. But they, I mean, if they could have, they would have been within their rights to have done this news conference on like the Saturday of the long weekend. - No, that wouldn't have affected me. I know Luke Fox and everybody out there's like, absolutely not, but I don't know, like to me, to me, and I understand part of it, like I understand how these things work, like Friedman has a report and then that probably nudges you in a certain way because you definitely don't want something like that. You don't want to be getting hounded all weekend long and you don't want Barube to have to sit on it. I understand it, but it comes across as a Friday news dump. I mean, I suppose the argument would be that, yeah, they're just going to announce it when they're ready to and if that happens to be at 5.01 PM on a Friday. - And today is going to be the real newsy part of it. There's going to be lots digested from today's meeting availability and this is after the long weekend. Everyone's going to be assembled. Everybody's, you know what, got lots of time to prepare for this thing now today. - Well, my actual real, my actual real read on that to be perfectly honest was that they had their day to back channel or whatever, depending more. And he was like, ah, no. And then that was the end of that. And they said, all right, Craig, here's the contract that's been sitting in a drawer presuming somebody else didn't want to take this job. And they give it to them. So yeah, I think it's pretty, I think that's everybody's read on it, but I think that is probably what nudged in into motion on the Friday, but that'd be seeing anytime you see a press release come out at 5.01 PM on a Friday, it is hard to look at it. And this is the, I think the Leafs are super happy to have Craig Brube as their coach. But it's just, it is, that's Friday news dump time. That's not, we're really proud of this time. It's just, it's odd, I don't know. - Yeah, I tend to think that it's just a happenstance thing and that you do have to act, quite factually, despite it being the sexiest, most glamorous, most high paying job available. There are other ones that have some appeals, specifically in New Jersey. So the Blue Jays pull a trigger on Craig Brube. Who has, oh man, don't get people too excited. If Craig Brube was managing the Blue Jays and just walking in there and like, why do you gotta hit more? He said he was managing the Blue Jays. - Oh, did I? - I just, I could not have somebody, Corrine off of the DVP this morning having heard that. - Yeah, man, you want to talk about a culture shift. - They were getting at Craig Brube and John Schneider when he took over for Charlie Montoya. Turns out they're the same guy. Anyways, Brube as people know, took over midway through that season in 18-19 from Mike Go. They won the Stanley Cup after being dead last in the Western Conference, beat the Bruins in seven games. Since then though, just one series victory, Blues missed the playoffs, last couple of seasons, their season one was interrupted, they were having a pretty good regular season during the pandemic, yeah, it might have impacted things, but whatever, had the cup run, one another round. This feels very much like a direct response to what the Leafs got in Sheldon Keefe, just as Sheldon Keefe was a direct response to Mike Babcock. What was your initial reaction to hearing the news that we all felt was the most likely path, but it being confirmed on Friday? - Yeah, I think the more I've thought about this is that I think the biggest positive you can feel about this and it's weird that we're getting back to this so quickly in this marketplace, but is that you're gonna have a coach in a GM that are not in lockstep, they're not tied at the hip, but they pretty clearly see the game in pretty similar, if not the exact same way. And I know we got so bogged down and like, oh yeah, you got the GM, pull at the puppet strings with his coach. I don't think anybody thinks Craig Brube is coming in here to be Brad your living's puppet, and I'm certainly not suggesting that, but I think when you bring two guys in who are not connected at the hip, but have a synergy and see the game in the same way, it goes back to what Pelly was talking about at his presser was Shanahan and Trilling about the chemistry the two of them have, which okay, like I'll have to take your word on that. I don't know that I've seen a ton of chemistry from those guys, but I think the Tri-Living and Brube can certainly have that and that they see the game the same way. Now there are gonna be times along this roster construction where I'm gonna go, ooh, I'm gonna win so little and I won't always see the game the same way, but I think having those two guys on the same page is honestly the most important thing. You want challenging philosophies and you want a guy who thinks a different way. You can bring in an assistant to throw a different idea at the wall. I love the idea of having a head coach that is in kind of lockstep with the GM. Now again, that doesn't mean I'm gonna like every decision they make, but I think it is very important that those two guys are kind of pulling the rope in the same direction. - So I think we're all gonna be looking at Craig Brube like that Simpson's meme or like Bart's in the class and say the lie. Yeah, let the players call them overpaid, bring the accountability. And I think if that's what you're looking at, you're gonna be disappointed. Like not to say that that won't happen. - Yeah. - I think Craig Brube knows that that's what people are expecting out of him. And he also knows that the first time you do that, it better be significant because that's gonna bring pretty hollow pretty quickly with just about any professional athlete, but specifically the ones that are tied up long term that all have no move clauses. Okay, and maybe it's different if Mitch Marner doesn't have an extension and he's forced back into action here and he's gotta prove himself to either the Leafs or somebody else to try and extend himself. But yeah, it's quite another thing to, and not that Austin Matthews would be the first guy you would think of, but hey, our best player needs to play like our best player. And he's like, oh really? Oh, the guy that scored 69 goals has a heart trophy. And again, like is the highest paid player and has a no move clause like, oh, well that's an interesting thing that you did there. So I think that and people will go really what's been happening in the last seven years there. But I think the thing that bodes well for this in Barouba's favor is that he will, I think Matthews has like thick enough skin to take it if needed, but also there's gonna be very few and far between times that Craig Barouba can do that with him specifically. This is not to say Austin Matthews is a perfect player. This isn't to say we haven't had games that we've come in here and talked about from this past season where you go, you would have liked a little more from Matthews. He was a little quiet. But now he's a silky nominated forward. But I also think that it's just he got that because of the consistent effort that you get night in and night out from the guy. We sit here and we're gonna talk about the goal scoring when his career is all said and done, but I'd love to have a like Doug Tracker for star forwards. I bet he'd be pretty low on that list in terms of just nights where you get nothing out of them or less than what you'd expect. I think so much of the tenor of who Craig Barouba, not who he is, he's gonna be himself. But does he come in with that big opening Salbo early is the team similar or is it different? And I don't think anybody thinks- - Oh, you can't do it. You can't do that like today or something. - No, no, no, no, no. But what I say to that is that let's say, - Plugger, here's everyone. Well, don't, because I want you to listen to me, but let's say Mitch Martin doesn't want to wave his no move. Let's say John Tavares doesn't want to wave his no move. And let's say this team is like pretty similar to what you see around here. Then I think you're gonna see more of that of, okay, there haven't been changes here. I will make the change I want to see in the world. But if Martin agrees to wave his no move or Tavares does or both do, then I think it allows Barouba to say, all right, there's been change here. Let's kind of grow together as a group. Whereas I think if there is not substantial change in this offseason, then you do need him to be a little fire and brimstoney early. - You don't hire Craig Barouba if you don't want that stuff, though. - Of course. - Like that's- - But you wanted at the right time. Accountability is gonna be the thing that's thrown around a lot. I'm sure there's gonna be, if it's not offered up directly by Craig Barouba or Brad for Living, somebody's gonna ask about it. And maybe you view that as very much connected, the yelling at players in the media and absconding them for their poor play to the assembled masses and creating the maelstrom of new stories that that would do in this city. I tend to view it as kind of not that. Like accountability is, hey, you're not performing on the power play? Guess what? You're not on power play one. Hey, you have a crappy game? Guess what? You're not playing 25 minutes tonight. Hey, you're not showing up in the postseason. Guess what? Like maybe there's a Jim Montgomery, David Pasternak situation where then I start to- - Right. - So that narrative to grow in the media, it is not just one thing when we talk about accountability. And I think the mind naturally, and listen, I'm part of it, I played the 2023 sound from Craig Barouba, which he definitely has that tool in his tool belt that he can call out the top players with reckless abandon, although that was coming after it's quick succession after winning a Stanley Cup in that market. But I think more specifically, accountability is with your actions in ice time and the way you distribute it and the way you organize your team behind closed doors, not necessarily to Luke Fox, who we will talk to later on today. - Yeah, and I think a big part of it as well is that it's how do you handle the difference in doing that in a market like St. Like again, let's just use that in a Robert Thomas as the guy, it's like Robert Thomas isn't going. He normally plays 20 minutes a night. He plays 1612. There's one question about it. He says, yeah, didn't like Rob, didn't love Rob's game tonight, you move on. It's not, if it's not Robert Thomas, but it's Mitch Marner. And he normally plays 20 minutes a night and he plays 1450 or whatever it is. The Efton like his game, what didn't you like about it? Like there is, it's just going to, and that's not to say he doesn't have the gravitas to kind of squash that or handle that in the right way, but that is the thing I think is gonna be the biggest, kind of on-the-job learning element of this, is that they're, and hey, there might sometimes be a one-word answer and they go, all right, that's fine. But there will oftentimes I'd imagine be a follow-up about that, what didn't you like? And it is, how do you thread that needle of still being assertive without piling on? Or if you feel the need to, pile on. Like I think, again, you bring him in here to do an element to that, but this is the thing we always talk about. It's not that the initial thing he says here is going to be different than what he says in St. Louis, but it's that there's 15 Luke Foxes as well. There's only one Luke Fox, but there's 15 microphones as opposed to the three guys or four guys that are down there. - Yeah, and he's vocal and he's a fiery guy, and he coaches with passion, but he's also a player's coach, right? Like as a former player, as a heart and soul guy, as an enforcer, as a guy that was well-liked on a bunch of club houses and playing almost 20 years in the NHL, like every story you hear is about the great level of communication he has with his players. So this is not like a return to the Mike Babcock or like some Mike Keenan guy showing up here who the players are going to hate and they're going to dread every moment at the rink. But somebody that I think, if you're like many people, including myself, who was like, "Hey, what would this last decade of Leafs teams look like with a little more accountability?" And people looking over their shoulders a little bit and feeling like everything wasn't necessarily just handed to them on a silver platter, I think you're going to find out what that looks like upcoming. I think for me, it's just such an odd time to make the move. And again, not that it's a hire I wouldn't have made, but if you are really having the conversations about moving on from it, it's like, I think that's the wake-up call in and of itself. And that's not to say you can't have a hardened coach or anything along those lines. And just think that you're bringing the guy in here to like, I think we all can, you know, I think like with us talking about the Tavares no move and the Marner no move, everyone looking at a world where it's like, okay, this is the Matthews Leafs, but like, Neelander riding shotgun with them. It's like, yeah, those guys can, they won, don't need to get it as often. I mean, Neelander more than Matthews, but it just, it seems to me like this is the coach they needed two years ago or something. I don't know that it's the coach for the moment, going forward if there are any changes. I mean, there was a moment during the regular season where you could have made a coaching change. Leafs never, I don't think even fell out of a playoff spot for a second. They were very close. As the world's chief tracker of this, I can assure you they were close. There were fleeting moments. There might have even been like an hour where like the Wings game ended earlier or something, maybe, but then they got their point that night. They could have done the in season thing. And I mean, his one Stanley Cup came, now I'll be it in November, not like February, but like, yeah, they're true of him. They couldn't do that. There's proof of concept there with him showing up in the middle of the season and changing the fortunes. They decided not to do that. They also waited until Friday to announce this thing, notably after Rod Brindenmore's hurricanes were removed from the postseason equation. Does it feel like this was their top guy? - Ah, their top guy that they could have. - Whatever that means to you. Like, I think that it's like, it's like, hey, I like my car. Is it my top car? It's like, it's the top car I can have. Now the differences is like the Leafs have like no budget, not a budget, but sometimes, I don't know. People have tried to tell me this and I'm like, give me enough money and I'll see if that's true. It's like, apparently money doesn't solve everything. And it's like, I do think there are candidates that they wanted to have that I don't think, I don't think money could have lured them. I think they want to Brindenmore. I think it's, again, I already mentioned it. It's not lost on me that the Craig Barouba news comes out the day after their canes are out. And okay, I think it's safe to say, maybe there was a back channel there and you're not going to have it happen. I think this was the top guy of guys that were open. Like, the idea of a Brindenmore, that Cooper never seemed to garner any smoke there at all. So I don't know how interested they were in that as well. And then I've been on record about the Quenville thing, but I don't know how much they wanted if they clearly seemed to not have pushed for it. I don't know. If you didn't ask a question to somebody or talk to him specifically, you weren't doing your job. We didn't hear any reports about that, which does make you scratch your head a little bit. Some great reporters that work pretty tirelessly on trying to uncover scoops surrounding this Toronto Maple Leafs team. And we didn't hear anything of the sort. We heard people speculating on his availability, but never once was there an intimation that the Leafs reached out one to the NHL or to Joel Quenville. I'll say if they didn't, that's a huge mistake. Now, whether they should have hired him or not is a different story. But to not, at least in quiet, you're not doing your job. Like you're in the process of hiring a head coach and the guy who's track record of success is unquestionably better than any available candidate. And you didn't ask if you could have him as a big whiff. I'm not saying that I know that definitively, but I will say it is kind of curious that we didn't hear any reporting around that. - Yeah, and I think I do wonder if a part of it is, yeah, I thought he had been away from the game longer. I guess he did coach the first seven games of 21, 22. I had him, I had that it was like 19, something like that. - No. - I mean, with the Panthers. - Yeah, no, no. And then they went on to win the presents for it without him without Bernad. - Yeah, I definitely had the absence as longer there. I'm with you. I mean, I've been banging the table that I thought that if there was ever a chance for the Leafs to use their bully pulpit, it was, hey, I want to hire that guy and you're not letting me. Now again, I've talked to Greg Wachinsky on this show who said in at least one conversation, he had with somebody, it's that he thinks it would actually bode more in the Leafs favor and that, you know, Shanahan, a league guy, they'd want him in a marquee spot. I don't necessarily agree with that line of thinking at all, but I do think you definitely should have kicked tires. I, if they didn't, I do wonder how much of that, how much, I'll just ask you the question. How much of that do you put to PR? Like, do you think it's a PR exercise that they didn't talk to? - I mean, they are, okay. - They kept it super quiet if they did. It's not quite the Blue Jay situation, which is associated with one corporate entity that is probably a traded company and Roberto Osuna was never gonna play another game for the Toronto Blue Jays and guess what? He never played another game for the Toronto Blue Jays and I'm not making an apples-to-apples comparison 'cause it is not. - Nope. - Because yeah, Roberto Osuna is, yeah, he was the guy that did the thing, right? And Joel Quenville, you can debate his culpability but he's not the main character in that scenario that played out with Chicago, with the Chicago Blackhawks. - I mean, there's a PR thing to doing the thing. - To the hiring, I don't-- - To when that is activated when Joel Quenville has to step in front of a microphone today and you have to explain away what happened in Chicago and the changes you've made and why you are the right hire for this group, but there's, I mean, to inquire about that? Like, I don't think there's-- - No, I agree. That's why I asked the question. I agree with you that I think you can, I think you can pretty, let's say, let's just walk down this hypothetical here that the Leafs wanted to inquire about Quenville and they spoke to him, they interviewed, had a conversation, I think that's a lot of times how this is word, is like, oh, they just talked about it. It's like, then, if it gets out and there's a PR backlash, you could just say, hey, we wanted to know what happened in Chicago, we wanted to get our own facts and guess what, we're not gonna proceed. Like, I'm with you, I think it's only a PR issue if he's standing up there at a podium as the Leafs had coached, not if you kick tires on it. - And if you're worried about that, then you get to gauge the fan reaction to that report. - Yeah, to get to take a straw poll as well. So I think that, basically with the exception of Brendan Moore, I think this was their top guy. And I don't, I think there's a very likely world that if, let's say, Brendan Moore was open, like he was just, he was an unemployed coach and you could've had him, that they could've interviewed both guys and say, you know what, we wanna go in this direction. Like, I think sometimes people get so bogged down to like, well, there's a candidate that they could have interest in. That means it's not their top guy. It's like, not necessarily. I mean, I don't know about you. I'm like a very indecisive person. So it's like, what is your top thing for this? It's like, uh, these 15 choices. I like all of them. I can't decide. And it's like, I imagine when you're trying to pick a head coach, yeah. It's like, you know, is there one chief decider? Maybe Shanny feels one way about one guy tree. And that's not to set up a like civil war, but it's just, you know, you have a panel of people who are talking to people, you're gonna feel slightly differently about them. So yeah, yeah, this team is taking more of the personality of the general manager who gets to hire his first head coach. And he goes into his first full off season where he's almost entirely in control. He's not in control because of the no move clauses. That's around the two guys that are on expiring contracts. But this is more Brad tri-living's team as we head to the. Yeah, there's no, when we look back on this thing in September, whatever he does this off season, there is no caveat of, wow, I mean, he was throwing into the fire six minutes before this started. Yeah, that's all done. All right. The long stretch of games without the Blue Jays winning consecutive games is also done. They did that for the first time since April. Yesterday, it took playing the worst team in Major League Baseball. Also, we heard from the great order that is Ross Atkins over the weekend. We'll get to that in more next. As the fan morning show continues, Ben and his Brent Gunning sports at 590, the fan. Hey, it's Aylish for a fire. And I'm Justin Cuthreth. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame, 6 p.m. weekdays on sports stats sports at 590, the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) (dramatic music) - Fan morning to a sports at 590, the fan band is Brent Gunning. That, of course, Ross Atkins, a little interlude by Buck Martinez. Yes, he did his media availability on the weekend of a long weekend after 4-3 loss in the opening game of a series to the Tampa Bay Rays. And then they proceeded to blow the next game of that series to the Tampa Bay Rays. But then they beat the Rays in the final game and they beat the worst team in baseball and scored nine runs against the Chicago White Sox. So all is, well, in Blue Jays land. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that I don't know that an approval rating can go beyond like 100%, but if Buck was ever gonna run for office, it was the minute after he asked that question. It was, people were very happy to hear it phrased in that particular way. - And it's like when you have the gravitas of Buck. You're Mr. Blue Jays, you've been there, you've done all the things we're talking about. You played, you've broadcasted, you made it, you've been a part of the team. You are allowed to kind of poke around in there in such a direct way and I loved it. - Yep, he did and it's a good question. It was a great follow-up by Hazel May as well when Ross Atkins started talking about the signs that the offense is turning around. She's like, "What are those signs exactly?" And he talked about the process and like the counts. - It's like the meltgowns hanging out there. - Yeah. - 'Cause it's not a lot of it. - Not because of other reasons. - There's not a lot of advanced statistical analysis that will tell you the Blue Jays are about to like break out and become one of the best offenses in all of baseball. So Ross Atkins is an easy guy to punch down on, right? Like it's, that is not hard to listen to Ross Atkins talk about a team that was at that point, what? Five games under 500 and him saying, "I think the players are good." And I think the thing that we said in the off season that everybody said wasn't true, still remains true. Like that's easy, easy, easy, easy stuff. - Yeah. - And I'm not above doing it. - No, of course not. - Why do you, so here's my question is, you know, we got into this a little bit and I don't know, maybe this is naval gazing, maybe we care about this more than other people, but why did he do it? - Well, he had to do it. - You have to do, you have to take to a microphone at some point when the team that has still World Series aspirations and is one of the highest payrolls, has one of the highest payrolls in all of baseball, has floundered the way it has. Like, you can't go the whole season - I would not suggest going the whole season, but to come out and like, I imagine the like, he didn't have index cards, but if he did, it's like, hey, offense is fine. We'll turn around. We're not happy with results underlying numbers. Like, I just, the reason you come out is I suppose to take accountability for the team, but it's also, I would think to try to have some public messaging or something along those lines. And we've talked about this a million times whether it be the end of presser last year or other pressers from the, it just, generally speaking, it has never made anything better. The conversation has not shifted in a positive way after the GM of this team has spoken. - Yeah, but what did you want him to say? That's what that's the question. - That's exactly what I'm getting at. It's like, I didn't want him to say anything. There was nothing he was gonna step to the mic and say that was gonna make me, or I imagine Johnny Jay's fan feel any better. So that, and this isn't to say is being accountable. - Yeah, okay, I appreciate it. That's why I said, is that what it is for you? 'Cause to me, it's like, okay, good. You went out there and you ate the tough questions. I just, I guess good on him for putting himself through that 'cause I don't know that that changes the, of course, not gonna change it in a big way, but it's like, I don't know that there's a more positive narrative coming out of this now or anything. It just felt like he was just there to kind of eat it for what the team has gone through. - You know why? Because the team stanks, and they have stank less since, but yeah, there's nothing he could've said to make you feel better about the team. I mean, even if he was Alex Antopolis, he's like, they're re-signing Alex Antopolis. And, or Alex Antopolis was the general manager of this offseason and did the thing that Ross Atkins did and everybody loves Alex Antopolis. And he's the Goodwill of 2015. It doesn't matter, the team stinks. When the team stinks and you're the general manager that put it together, you get roasted. There's nothing you can say, but-- - No, no, agreed. You, it's your job. Like it, and it must be said that, like, again, he spoke on the weekend of a long weekend where like, people aren't-- - Not exactly did it, and it's a little-- - And he also spoke right before they've got six games against the White Sox. They got a four game series against the Tigers. - See, you were looking at me like, I was crazy for askin' that question. Look at all the good information you just, you just illuminated for us of like, bad teams are comin' up. You got a whole hum weekend where people are distracted by, they're not a whole hum, it's like a long weekend where people are distracted by other things. Thank you, see? I asked the question, why do you talk? - It is interesting also that he speaks at a moment in time in which finally there's like, some level of urgency with the lineup. Most notably like George Springer not leading off anymore, not gonna lead off anymore. And then yesterday we get Danny Janssen's first kick of the can as the number two hitter saw that on this team. - Early returns, pretty good on that respect. - They're gonna get the White Sox a bunch more games? - Yeah, they actually are, they literally are two more now and then coming up in Chicago before the end of the month. But I will say if there's something encouraging outside of the results on the field, I mean actually there's something beyond this, but the most encouraging thing as far as process outside of the players' control is some organizational one accountability with Ross Atkins saying, yeah, we still believe in these players, but again, what else are you gonna do? Like you're not gonna step the microphone and say, here's the thing, we were wrong. These guys all stink and I should probably be fired because I thought they were better than they are. They actually stink and I'll be looking for work. Thanks for everybody, thanks for coming. I'll be on my way now. Like obviously you have to double down and you have to instill confidence in the group because these are the guys you're going to war with. But so there's one, there's the accountability from the front office perspective. And two, like some factual accountability when it comes to the roster. And it took until mid-May with this team, half dozen games under 500 for the guy who has a full season of being an average offensive player and being in his mid-30s to be removed from the top of this lineup. But it has finally happened. They are doing things that are unconventional and maybe you can classify it as panicky. I would say it's necessary and it's kind of time to panic. So they did those things and that's encouraging. I agree and you're right. Like hey, it is better to speak after having done and not that he sets the lineup or anything but that there's change there so you can at least have some semblance of okay, we're trying things here. How much do you think the lineup changes happen because the team just kind of reached a breaking point with where this is at? And we see this all the time in other sports where you'll see it in baseball too where it's like, hey, we want to put this person in a position to succeed. Maybe we call him up in a softer spot in our schedule. Do you think there is some element of, all right, you know what, if this is ever going to click, if this is ever going to work, it's going to work against these teams. Let's use our bullet now. We've been hesitant to do it. And don't take this as me saying they had to wait until the bad teams were coming before they changed the order. No, I would have liked to have seen it another way but do you think any part of this is setting this new lineup and I'm using that in quotations here 'cause I don't think this is like set in stone by any means but do you think is there an element of this new lineup being set up for success given the schedule they have ahead of them? And that's why they chose to pull the trigger now. - I think they're just desperate for wins. - Yeah. - I don't, I mean, if you were going to play that game, wouldn't you have kept George Springer in the lead off spot through this soft schedule? Like if you wanted the guy who's making $25 million this year next year and a year beyond that, wouldn't you want? If you're like, that guy's going to be here and we want him in the best spot to succeed and we want to seem like smart guys that we've left him up there and well enough alone that we're going to leave him in there against the teams that can't play baseball so good and we're going to be proven correct. Instead of doing that, they have made the move before this stretch of games against lesser light opponents and that's putting it mildly. - Well, I also, I also think there's an element too of like, I hear what you're saying and if it was about like, I don't think you change a line up 'cause of one guy and I don't think they would have done that but it's like, if it is about Springer in this instance, I think you actually do it the other way 'cause then you're able to drop him into the six hole and he gets a couple of locks against lesser light competition and say, hey, look, it's the Bishat thing. Go talk to Bo, this works for him. So I actually think you kind of, not that you wouldn't want proof of concept of Springer hitting in the lead off spot and that going well. I think given their druthers, that is still what they'd want to happen but actually go the other way that you can point, hey, scoreboard, look, we dropped you in the order just like we dropped Bishat, it's working for you. Just like it worked for him. - Yeah, so encouraging signs that Blue Jays are acting in a more desperate way, encouraging signs that Danny Jansen not phased by being in what is now the most notable spot in an order it used to be fourth, it used to be like third of fourth, that you're like the best, but now it's two. Now it's two and the Blue Jays saying to the world, Danny Jansen is the heartbeat of our offense and in his first game as the heartbeat of this offense, three for five of the home run. It's Vladimir Guerrero, Jr., continuing to get on base, although not hit for power. And it's Bo Bishat with a four for four game, including three doubles. This team looks like it's capable offensively of getting to at least like in and around an average spot. Which, if the rotation continues to look like it has looked recently, specifically Alec Manoa, looking like the guy we've seen the last two times through the rotation, 14 innings, zero earned runs, 13 strikeouts and only two walks. Okay, I'm not telling you that the Blue Jays are ready to turn in an 11 game winning streak, which would be a franchise record, or that this is now all of a sudden some team that is gonna go on some insane roll. I mean, maybe that's part of the schedule, actually will help boost their record in the coming weeks. But I will say, if you are capable, and even the advanced stats of fan graphs and projecting what they'll do the rest of the season, will project them to be closer to a more average offense than the one that is second worst in all of baseball, only to the Chicago White Sox team that you just saw yesterday. If you can get closer to a league average offense, and you got five good to great starting pitchers, now the bullpen's a different story, but you got one of the best relievers in Jimmy Garcia and Chad Greene about to be reactivated, do you think? And maybe you can cobble together the rest of it? It is possible that if you get your house in order to some respectable degree offensively, that the things in the coming weeks feel a little different around the state. - In the coming weeks, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The biggest problem with that is that you still gotta hit a little bit. And I agree with you, like this team is not going to just have some jump where they just turn around to a top 10 offense in baseball. But if they're gonna hit, you mentioned the guys there that are gonna do it. Like it's gonna be Vlad, maybe it's not gonna look the way you want, but okay, he's gonna get on base, he's gonna get his singles. Bo, coming around, you're confident about that. David Schneider, it's like especially for what he is, where this team needs him. Like, I think you're confident in that. But Danny Janssen, this team just told you how important he was. He's the two whole hitter on this team. And hey, feel free to prove me wrong. And I'm not somebody who criticizes guys for getting hurt all the time. I think it's just, there's nothing he can do about it. But Janssen is gonna need to be a focal part of this offense. And it has been borderline impossible to count on him being a focal part of anything because he just seems to be able to go two months without breaking a hand or hurting something. Now, that's not to say you capitulate or anything like that, but it is so hard to see a world where Janssen is an extra as opposed to a key tenant of this offense. And it's so hard to see a world where that key tenant of this offense is healthy for a big, big chunk the rest of the season. Maybe that's unfair, but it's just the track record we have with the player. - Yeah, it's one guy. But yeah, just from a general perspective, this offense, despite it not being good, like there's no number that's like, hey, this is gonna be a really good offense. Like, look at these exit velocity statistics or this expected batting average or expected slugging. Team wide, it's like, there's nothing that's gonna tell you that they're gonna be one of the best offenses in baseball. But just track record wise, and like the biggest reason to believe this is the guy that had four hits yesterday and even Vlad with his resurgence here with the on base percentage and the bunch of singles, like he can be better than this. This offense can be better than second worst in all of Major League Baseball. And even being, okay, so, you know, the judges are very disappointing. They're 21 and 25. They're four games under 500. That's unreal considering they are the second worst offense in all baseball. That's a great record. That's like 1927 Yankee stuff that you've managed to accumulate 21 wins in 46 games being White Sox level, like slightly above the White Sox level and the White Sox, again, the worst team in all of baseball. You basically have put forth the same offensive output as that team and you got yourself within shouting distance of 500. If you can be, God, who's like middle of the road offensive team that comes to mind? I should look at who's middle of the road when it comes to offense. But if you can be a middle of the road offensive team, like if you could be. - The Reds, is it the Reds? - Yeah, the Reds are kind of on fire recently. But yeah, if you could be a middle of the road offensive team, like if you could be, what, the Angels have the seventh most home runs in all of baseball. You could be, oh my God, the like Mike Troutless, Angels offensively. - Could just be the Mike Trout Angels or Mike Troutless. - Yeah, with this starting pitching and yeah, I mean, at the bullpen, I guess is a question mark, but you have enough pieces there that you would think if you could remove them from like every moment being the most high leverage and like Nate Pearson, maybe you get the good Nate Pearson. - Yeah. - In the important times? - Yeah, my God. Like this is a team that has one of the most important things in baseball, starting pitching, like plenty. Like guys that are not just fifth starters. - No. - Bowdoin Francis isn't walking through that door. It's Alec Manoa who, if you were of the belief and I was getting closer to this, that like your most optimistic projection is a guy that is a capable major league starter again. If you're getting something close and man, the last two starts are indications. This is possible. Something close to the guy that was a top 10 American League Cy Young award-getter to go with Kevin Gossman who looks a lot more like himself and was on record as saying, hey, maybe I rushed it a little too early. And now starting to feel like myself, Jose burrios defending American League pitcher of the month. You say kakuchi looking like the best starter of the month. And maybe like if you're just going on on sheer stuff, Chris Bassett is the fifth starter of the group, but him at times looking like the best, like you can do a whole lot worse than those five guys. And the bar offensively is like, if you score four and five runs in a baseball game, that more often than not should be enough to win. - Yeah, it should. You mentioned Kevin Gossman. We should listen to him when he said he probably maybe rushed it a little. We should also listen to him when he talked about last year that the starters are pitching high leverage innings for like just about all of their outings all year long. And that's not to say, I think the starting pitching is going to fall off a cliff. You are asking them to walk such a tightrope. And that's why I think you cannot understate or sorry, it's almost impossible to overstate what Manoa coming back to be in that guy means. Because this starting staff has been phenomenal. But if you can inject that guy into it, it just gives all those guys that little more wiggle room they need and they're going to need it. The offense, even if it comes around to be the best version of it, you could possibly imagine that pitching staff is still going to be asked to do such an incredibly tough job and walk such a fine line that you just need to give them more help and not say go out and get a trade, but Manoa coming in and being capital A, capital M, Alec Manoa, it really does for me change the math. 'Cause I am not worried about some drop off a cliff, but I am worried about asking those guys to be basically perfect all year long. And that's why I, as much as this, the offense, they just need to do a little bit more. I don't know how much worse the starting staff can afford to do if that doesn't come as well. And if that's the worry. - And if we're going to kill these guys for saying, "Hey, believe in the talent and double down on this core and it not producing the way we all expected it not to produce," we got to give him credit for saying the same thing about Alec Manoa and him doing it, right? Like I was skeptical every time they said like, "Man, you should see this guy's bullpen session. You should see the ball coming out of his hand." And we're like looking at the AAA results. We're like, "Okay, he's had some good ones." Some real clunkers in there and his first kick of the can at the major leagues this year looked like, "Ooh, not all that encouraging." And it's only two starts now, but we've got to give him credit for seeing this still in Alec Manoa and it not just being put in lipstick on a pig. Like they saw what we've seen the last two starts out of Alec Manoa. It's only two, but it wasn't against the White Sox either. - No, you're right to bring that up. Like that is, that's, that felt foot-gazy when they're saying, "Oh, no, it's good. It's okay." - Yeah, it's like sure it is. - Okay, well, okay, bud, sure. And then it showed up and it's real. And again, like I don't think I'm putting them in side-young conversations or anything yet. When a guy's been lost as long as he is, you need to see a track record of it. But I, outside of Vlad, turning into home run hitting Vlad, I don't know that there's anything you could have asked for as a bigger kind of in-season win for this team than Alec Manoa refining. - I mean, the best news for this Blue Jays team? Two more games against the White Sox. And then four games in Detroit and then three more games against the White Sox. - Got to win him though. - The Pirates are good. - I just know about Paul Skeens. Isn't that, are they coming? - Yeah, they're coming up after the stretch of games. White Sox, Tigers, White Sox. All right, when we come back, Craig Baroube introduced as the newest head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs this afternoon. We'll talk to our boy, Gord Stellik, next with the fan morning show, continues. Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning, sports net 590, the fan.
