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Judge Merchan Slams Witness for "Staring" Him Down Plus Jennifer McCabe Takes Stand | 5.21.24 - The Grace Curley Show Hour 1
Today's podcast is brought to you by Howie's new book Paperboy. To order today, go to howiecarshow.com and click on store. Live from the Aviva Trateria studio, it's The Grace Curly Show. We've got to bring in a new voice, a young voice, a rising voice, Grace Curly. You can read Grace's work in the Boston Herald and the spectator. Especially Grace, Grace Standup. Here's the millennial with the mic, Grace Curly. Welcome back everyone to The Grace Curly Show. It is Tuesday, May 21st. The beautiful day outside. Ten days until our Aviva Trateria remote and handover, which you should book your reservations to today. Make sure you get on that. We have a great show for you as always, if I do say so myself. The Trump hush money trial, the testimony wrapped today. Jared, would you like to take a victory lap? I believe that you urge President Trump not to testify. Yeah, yesterday, we were talking about this and I was like, after cone, like if I'm the defense, just rest. Like, just get this done, get this over with. Now, to be fair, most human beings on this planet gave the same advice, but you came into my office today and you think that there was something about the way you said it. Yes, I am now open to be a legal consultant if anybody, you know. You can't be worse than Michael Cohen. Oh my gosh, I can't. That's my message to him. If anybody needs obvious legal advice, you know. Obviously. Yeah. And you know what, Jared? Although to be fair, they didn't, they weren't going to rest. I mean, they called Costello as a witness and they were going to call the former FEC chair who basically was going to blow everything up. Murchan said, no, no, you can't call. You can't call expertist, culpatory witnesses for Orange, man. Yeah, he's very into helping Alvin Bragg. It's like a tag team effort. Yeah, but Jared, I think you take a victory lap. And you know what, I think you should speak at a commencement for people getting their law degrees. I think you should be there to tell them. All right, which college, which Americans are being left behind by democracy? I'll speak at that point. There we go. He's offering up his services, everyone. Jared DiGlio Esquire. Yeah, but so the testimony wrapped today. Thank the Lord, honestly, because I can't take it anymore. So we've got the closing arguments next week. Murchan thinks they're going to take a long time. The jury starts deliberation on May 28th. I asked how he said, is that typical like once things wrap up that a jury is going to take that long to deliberate? He said, no, Grace, but nothing's typical about this. So get over it. And lawyers currently are discussing jury instructions, which I'm pretty sure the jury instructions, if Murchan, you know, throws his hat in the ring, are going to be orange man bad and make sure that that is what you're verdict. I don't care what your verdict is, but it should be guilty. I would advise a jury in this case to find him guilty. Now, the final witness, you brought up Robert Costello. I want to talk about this a little bit because his testimony yesterday, it wasn't without some drama. And not from Costello, by the way, Costello actually seems like a fairly straight shooter, which in a case built around porn stars and con artists is refreshing. He's a breath of fresh air in this madness. So Costello gets up there. And the judge, Judge Murchan, I know you say Murchan, I'm going to say Murchan potato potato. He is proving over and over again, if there was any doubt in people's minds, that he is nothing more than a partisan nut. Now, I know what you're probably thinking. Yeah, Grace, file that under, obviously, we're not surprised. We didn't think this guy was giving Trump a fair shake. But even if he was going to be the typical cliche Trump hating hack from New York, there's a more subtle way to go about it. That's all I ask from people at this point in my life. I just like a little nuance. Don't make it so glaring. Don't make it so brazen. It's blinding how much you hate Donald Trump. Have an air of fairness about you, just for kicks, you know, just for fun. And if you miss this, the judge chastised Costello for giving him the side eye and rolling his eyes. Now, I don't want to suggest that the judge who keeps finding Trump for merely acknowledging his massive conflict of interest in the fact that his daughter works for a Democrat campaign operation. I don't want to suggest. Is she a porn star? No, that was Jamie Raskin. Jamie Raskin hadn't heard of any of these people, which is good to know. Well, I didn't realize how clear that was. That's the craziest part, not to rewind your Jared, but that came from the cat fight in Congress. And it's so weird how obvious. I mean, Jasmine Crockett called Marjorie Taylor Greene a bleach blonde built bad body bagel back better something something she just used a lot of bees. And Marjorie Taylor Greene first made fun of her eyelashes. And yeah, of course, that sells, you know, women fighting with each other is going to sell. It's going to make the headlines bears, eats, battle star Galactica. But Raskin, when hearing about Judge Merchant's daughter, who's been in the news a lot asking, is she a porn star? Is she a porn star? Underrated moment in that testimony that really got no in that hearing, they got no attention. Anyway, so I'm not suggesting that merchant is as a massive conflict of interest and that he shouldn't be trusted in this case, but I will say that he seems to be a bit overly sensitive. I think it would be fair to say it's a fair assessment at this point that he's being a massive baby because he doesn't like that this case is imploding thanks to Alvin Bragg and Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen and the fact that there is no case. It's like the three stooges are running this case and then he's upset that it's not playing out the way he thought it would. And we're going to discuss all of this with Brett Tolman, former U.S. Attorney at one o'clock. I'm just trying to figure out the rules. So, okay, so in Judge Merchant's courtroom, you can't close your eyes. No, you can't look sideways. No, can you blink? Is blinking allowed? Order in the court. I mean, so your eyes just have to be open and forward at all times. You don't look like a crazy person at all times. I will say this in the 1880s or something. Some people are more... are less in control of their eye movements. I say that... I'm a ship would kill it at this trial. I say this is someone who's experienced it in real life. I've told this story before. My geometry teacher... I was very respectful of teachers. I always got along with my teachers pretty well. I'm actually going to... one of my teachers has a performance at her last play that she's putting on. So, I'm going to see that. But I always got along with my teachers. It was very respectful, I think. But one of my favorite teachers was a geometry teacher myself more year and he did pull me aside and he said, "I don't think you realize you're doing this. So, I'm not saying this to yell at you. But you roll your eyes multiple times during my class." And you know what it was, Jared? Whenever I was frustrated with something or felt like I couldn't understand it, I would roll my eyes. It was just a reaction. And I said, "I looked at him. I remember the day I looked at him. I said, "Do I really?" And he's like, "Oh, yeah. The entire class. Your eyes are going everywhere." In the back of your head. But he didn't admonish me. He just wanted me to be aware. Like, "Hey, when you go on to the real world, you should know you're doing this." But this judge was angry. So, you give me the side. I can read it to you because you give me the side eye. Since Costello aggravated merchant repeatedly, in part by continuing to speak after objections were sustained, a signal to witnesses to stop talking. Because he was signaled to stop talking multiple times, whereas Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels and other people who were thieves and liars and don't have any respect for the court were allowed to go on and on and on without the judge stopping them or sustaining any of these objections. So, I'm sure it was funny to Costello, who actually has background in law and knows what a sham this is, to hear his own testimony being cut off time and time again. And he's being stifled, but everybody else was given free rein to smear Trump. If your testimony is too smear Trump, you are not going to be interrupted. Judge Merchant is going to allow you to speak. Your testimony will be unfettered. And so, it says at one point, Costello remarked, "Geez," when he was cut off by an objection. He also called the whole exercise ridiculous. But the most tense moments happen with Costello on the witness stand. Merchant first sent the jury out of the courtroom to discuss proper decorum. He chided Costello for remarking geez when he was cut off by a sustained objection and at another point, strike it. Merchant told him, "I'm the only one that can strike testimony in the courtroom. Do you understand that?" And then, this is my favorite part. If you don't like my ruling, you don't give me the side eye and you don't roll your eyes. Now... You worry about your own game. Money there to keep you busy. Yeah, I don't think you should be trying to micromanage people's body language on the stand. I don't think that the eye rolling, like Jared said, I mean, it's an improvement from having his eyes shut, right? Surely it's better than him sleeping on the stand. Maybe just take that win. You can't let perfect be the enemy of good. He's got his eyes open on the stand. Let's just chalk that up as an A plus. But then this is my favorite part. It's not even the eye roll. It's not even the side eye. It's this quote, which I find ludicrous. He says, "Merching was about to bring the jury back in when he asked Costello, "Are you staring me down right now?" And then kicked out the press to further admonish him. I'm putting you on notice that your conduct is contemptuous. If you try to stare me down one more time, I will remove you from the stand. What does that even mean? Like eye contact? Okay, so again, let's get this straight. Trump has his eyes shut, not okay. Oh, tough guy. Merchant moves his eyes. I'm sorry, Costello moves his eyes to the side. That's not good. He rolls his eyes. That's not good. And then he just stares at the judge who's proceeding, who's presiding over this trial. And that's not okay either. So you can't have your eyes forward to the side. Don't come for me. Because if you want smoke, you'll get smoke. I'm just confused what this judge wants. And I think he's confused as well. But the important thing is we're going to talk to U.S. Attorney Brett Tolman at one o'clock. Because I heard Alan Dershowitz today, there was cuts of him just going berserk over how ridiculous this is. And I've been wanting to get Tolman on for a while because he's always so on top of this stuff. And talk about someone who has, you know, a very nice way about him. He doesn't get too heated or, you know, he keeps his, he keeps, he never gets too up or too down on these cases. And you know what I find amazing about Brett Tolman, Jared? He's on TV as much as like Jonathan Turley on Fox these days. He's on all the time. He always makes time for The Grease Curly Show. And he's always so excited to come on with us. He's like, "It's an honor to come on. I can't wait to retweet it." And I'm like, "Dude, you're kind of a big deal. You're acting like, "We're a big deal, but you're a big deal." So we're very excited. You did give the stipulation of no side-eye the interview to Brett. Yeah, I said it's only on the phone. But if I even get wind that you're staring me down through the phone receiver, it's over for you. I will cut you off so fast, man. And we're excited to talk to him. And, you know, I feel like our show now has become court TV because between the Trump trials and the Karen Reid trial here in New England, forget Nancy Grace. It's fancy grace. I didn't know what my, yeah, that was my best work, but we can do something with it. I, you know, this has given me new respect for Nancy Grace because it's not be easy to cover this stuff all the time. And it's not what you think it's going to be. Like, I said to Jared, "Oh, great. Jennifer McCabe's on the stand today. The Google search, well, you know, we waited through the defense and I'm sorry, we waited through the prosecution now. It's the defense. It's a cross-examination. We're going to get to the Google." It's a lot of minutia. It's a lot of just back and forth. It's a long haul. You know, it's a slog. And so Jennifer McCabe, Brian Albert, sister-in-law is on the stand. I don't think they're going to get to the Google search today because it's a half day of this trial, hopefully tomorrow. And we'll keep you up to date. We have some great cuts, though, because there was one moment that I want to focus on. It involves Jennifer McCabe, who's very confident that Karen Reed at one point said to people arriving on the scene when John O'Keefe's body was found, "I hit him. I hit him. I hit him." She was very confident in that until she really wasn't, until things started to shake out differently. We'll talk about that when we come back. We got a lot to get to. Spring means more flowers and sunshine. Unfortunately, it can also mean more pollen and allergens. I can hear it, Jared, in my voice a little bit now. It's getting a little raspy. And I do think that typically the pollen in the air hasn't affected me. And this year is different. I think it's so much heavier this year. Yeah, everybody's talking about how bad the pollen is this year, even people with out allergies. And it's not side-eye. I'm giving you right now a graciously pollen in my eyes. It feels exciting. And I don't want to admonish you, but I will. But if you have allergies like I do, or even if you don't have allergies, then the pollen is really getting to you. This year when you're reacting to it, you want to get the even pure thunderstorm. It's helped me with allergy headaches, which are like migraines, if you've never had one of those. But what it does is it actually ionizes the air, which creates a super oxygen. And that's what eliminates those allergens and pollutants in the air. And no other, like, air freshener or make things smell flowery, squirting, whatever plug-in thing is going to do that. No, this actually purifies the air around you. So that's what you really want. It gets rid of odors, but especially this time of year, it gets rid of the allergens and pollutants. Yeah. And what Jared just mentioned is so true. I don't like stuff where you plug it in and it starts to smell like perfume or flowers or cupcakes. Because it always smells very artificial. This is great because it's just going to eliminate odor. It's going to leave the air smelling fresh and clean. And really, it's the absence of smell. And also, I'm holding it up for the rumble cam because it's small. You can plug it into the wall. It's, you know, no fuss, low maintenance, but it really does work. And I want you guys to get your hands on the three packs. So here's what I want you to do. Go to eatimpuredeals.com and use code GRACE3 to get the three pack. That's eatimpuredeals.com, code GRACE and the number three. Say hello to spring and go buy the allergens, get the three pack today. Don't forget the code GRACE3. We'll be right back. Follow GRACE on Twitter @g_curly This is the GRACE Curly Show. So I haven't seen this video yet, but Matt was just telling me in the green room. And Jared, Matt telling me about sound is even more rare than you telling me about sound, because he usually keeps it to himself. He puts together the intro for Howie Show. But he just mentioned to me that on CNN, they had a wrapper on and they started asking the wrapper about Sean P. Diddy Combs and the recent video that came out of him beating up his ex-girlfriend in an LA hotel. And of course there's going to be this, there's a massive investigation ongoing. No charges have been filed yet, but the feds are involved. They say it could be human trafficking. And there's all sorts of rumors about what is at the center of this. And it doesn't look good, obviously. I think P. Diddy is a weird, weird, dark, scary person. But they brought on this wrapper, I think to ask him just about P. Diddy. And the wrapper was so confused because he's not really friends with P. Diddy. And he looked at the woman hosting CNN and he said, "Who booked me for this?" That's so embarrassing. I mean, that tracks for CNN though. Yeah, but it feels... I'm a wrapper. I'm a wrapper. I'm a wrapper. It feels a little racist. Like you just assume... Slightly. That because they're both black and they're both from Harlem and they're both rappers, that they both know each other. It's not a great look for CNN. Then again. Oh, it's Cameron. Okay. Who is Cameron? Do you know his music? I know the name. I probably do know his music. I couldn't name you a song if you asked me to, but I've seen the name before. Well, we'll get... So this isn't like some underground up-and-coming wrapper, you know? Yeah, well, we'll get to it eventually. I need to read more about this, but it looks like it was pretty embarrassing for CNN. It's no yo-peche. No, I want... He's a real wrapper. I want to go to Jennifer McCabe here for a sec. Jennifer McCabe, Brian Albert's sister-in-law, Brian Albert being the owner of 34 Fairview in Canton, where John O'Keefe's body was discovered. Now, Jennifer was part of this Canton crew that went out drinking the night before John O'Keefe's body was found. And she went to her brother-in-law's house for an after-party. The whole thing is very strange. They should have called it quits after the bar closed. They should not have kept going, obviously. But I thought the most notable part of this, and obviously she's the woman who Googled "How long to die in the snow?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" "How long to die in the cold?" 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"How long to die in the cold?" ♪♪ ♪♪ Live from the Aviva Trattria Studio. ♪♪ Welcome back everyone to the Grace Curly Show. ♪♪ The judge in the Trump-Hush money trial was not happy when Robert Costello, who by the way, whose testimony completely destroyed Michael Cohen's entire lie about Trump paying off Stormy Daniels for political purposes. Well, the judge doesn't like that Bob Costello was rolling his eyes and giving him the side eye, and at one point giving him a stare-down. It sounded like someone having an argument with their teenage daughter. "Do not roll your eyes at me!" I think he just got to wear it and move on. Like, he doesn't like you. He thinks you're doing a bad job, which based off what I've been reading, you are doing a bad job. And it's amazing the kind of treatment Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels and these other unreliable narrators we're getting on the stand versus Robert Costello, who from what I've been reading is actually a pretty straight shooter. Seems like he has a good resume. Michael Cohen went to him for legal advice. It's always the guys that haven't been naked on camera are stolen money that you can't trust. Yeah, that is what they tell you. That's what they tell you in law school. Hey, Jared, I want to get to some of this Karen Reed stuff. Now, let me break this down for people a little bit. I don't claim to be an expert. I talked to Turtle Boy on the show, and he obviously has a lot more information on the tangled web. These people in Canton have woven for themselves. But I do want to talk about Jennifer McCabe, because she's on the stand today. It's ongoing right now. It is going to be a half day in court. But I wanted to talk about a noteworthy exchange. I thought that the cross-examination of Jennifer McCabe was very effective. Now, Jennifer McCabe is Brian Albert's sister-in-law. If you're eyeballs deep in this case, you don't need to hear me say all this. You already know. But for the people who are kind of following it as we go, just a little rundown, she's Brian Albert's sister-in-law. She was part of the group that discovered John O'Keefe's body, and she claims that when they discovered the body, and people started showing up, she wasn't sure if it was a cop or a paramedic. The Karen Reed looked at either the cop or paramedic and said, "I hit him. I hit him. I hit him." And she was very sure of that. Now, I want to point out something before I play those sound cuts. Reed's lawyer. She's two lawyers that are pretty well-known. Jennifer McCabe is Alan Jackson. And I think he's doing an excellent job, mostly because I'm starting to realize, and, you know, I always thought to myself I would have no interest in being a lawyer. I like to argue sometimes, but I'm not -- this surprises people. I'm not incredibly confrontational. But now what I'm realizing is a lot of being a lawyer is just aggravating people. It's just asking people enough questions and not really letting them get a straight answer out and driving them crazy until they lose their temper. And that being one of four, having three siblings and having arguments with them, now I'm starting to think maybe this could have been a good career path for me. Because really what Alan Jackson is doing, and I was talking to the mailer manager about this, it's all about the minutia. It's all about going over these details where these witnesses, like Jennifer McCabe, she thinks that she's telling one story, but when you have to repeat yourself over and over and over again, and when you've already had a grand jury testimony, when you've already had transcripts of interviews on the scene, none of these things are adding up. And I'm sure in her mind they are, but when it's laid out to you in this format, you realize there's a lot of discrepancies. There's a lot of inconsistencies. And that's all Karen Reed's side needs. They just need a few things that are not in sync. To sync this thing. And I think that Alan Jackson is bogging these witnesses down in the minutia of the events, in the phone records, in a lot of the stuff that's available now because of technology, and he's getting under their skin, and it's working. And we've been talking a lot about how Trump needs to be on the debate stage. And I understand why it might seem like I'm over-reacting, or, you know, I'm over-emphasizing the importance of keeping your cool. But it's such a superpower if you can do it. And very few people can. Very few people have the self-restraint to be in a position like this and not reveal that they're incredibly frustrated. And I think out of all the people we've seen so far, in this entire Karen Reed trial, Jennifer McCabe is one of the worst. She's very, very obviously frustrated and annoyed. And, you know, snippy. And it shows, and it doesn't look good for her. Now, I will say this. I understand that this drama, because this has become bigger than anyone could have imagined, that this drama, I have people reaching out to me who are not political at all, who have had no interest in my show since I started. I think they, when they talk to me, they prefer to think that I don't even have a show, because it bothers them, that I come on here as a right-wing agitator, MAGA Republican, and, you know, talk about all these things, who have reached out to me and said, "What do you make of this case?" Like, it has infiltrated groups that typically would not be tuning in. That is the span. That is the reach that this thing has. And so I get why this drama and the life that this has taken on must be incredibly frustrating for this group of people who are not perfect, but none of us are, but they definitely have their issues, and I can empathize or sympathize to a degree with the fact that it must be incredibly frustrating for them if they had nothing to do with this, and if they did nothing wrong, then all of this hoopla, and like me talking about it, internal boy, I get why she wants to make a point of saying we've been harassed, we've been bothered, but what they need to understand is whether they like it or not. Karen Reed is going to be convicted of murder. Her lawyers have every right to question the reliability and the honesty of this group of people. And if they were in the same position as Karen Reed, they would hope their lawyers would do the same thing. They would hope that the general public would take an interest like they have in this case. I think any of us would. And so let's get to the part of today that I thought was the most effective take-down by this lawyer. Let's start with when she had a 100% clarity of what Karen Reed said when this body was discovered. This is Jennifer McCabe, being questioned by Alan Jackson. Cut 11, please. I'd like you to direct me where to look. I want you to look at the entire grand jury testimony if you need to. In terms of the page where you ever said that my client said I hit him, I hit him, I hit him. I'm not sure if it's in this document, but I can tell you today with 100% clarity, she said I hit him, I hit him, I hit him on that morning. Now, pause it there for a second. So he's asking her to look back at grand jury testimony from 2022 when she did not have this same clarity and she did not make a point of saying I hit him, I hit him, I hit him. Now, her response to this, and I know I'm paraphrasing here, but I just, I don't want to go through the entire thing. Her response made sense to me. She was like, well, they didn't ask me that specifically. And you could, you know, it's not a crime to not volunteer information. I don't think if you're not asked about it. Maybe technically it could be conceived. But I just don't think that if you're not asked a specific question, I think honestly a lot of lawyers tell you only answer the questions you're asked. Don't like go off and tell them random things. But the problem is that that scene that she's describing, she did talk about 12 times in that grand jury testimony. She just didn't talk about that one part. So it is kind of crazy to me that if you're talking about when people showed up, what Karen Reid was doing, how she was reacting, and that's an impactful. That was the word that was used. That's an impactful part of that. That part in 12 different versions of you explaining this during your grand jury testimony would not come up. That is strange to me. So can I get cut 14, please? That's 12 times that you reiterate under oath, under penalty to perjury in April of 2022, what my clients statements were either at the scene or meeting up to get into the scene. Correct. Every single one of those 12 separate times, you indicated that she asked a question something like, "Could I have hit him or did I hit him?" Correct? Correct. Not one time in that testimony did you say she declared, "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him, did you?" The questions that were asked, when she said, "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him." That was at the scene in response to an officer asking questions. What I just read was asked when she first called me, or when we were driving in the car, or when we were at John's house. So I was answering the question that I was asked. Now, I do want to point out that there was a big back and forth about kind of Karen Reid's evolution to that point, which I think that even if she did say, "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him," based off the previous statements that we have from Jennifer McCabe about their exchanges leading up to that point where they're looking for John O'Keefe, where Karen Reid is hysterical, where she's in a panic, based off those previous exchanges, and Jared, as the legal expert on this show, I would love if you would help me out with this, it would seem like this, if I'm looking at this as someone on the jury, it seems like, by the way, she's describing it with the previous interactions of, "Did I hit him? Did I hit him?" And then even if you take it as she did say that, at some point Karen Reid said, "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him." I would look at that arc and say that's a woman who was unsure of what happened and then eventually came to the conclusion that that's the only logical way this could have gone down and starts blaming herself because she's in a full-blown panic. She's obviously still hung over. She still has alcohol in her bloodstream, I'm sure. So I would look at that and say, "That's not someone declaring it because she knows it. That's someone who is trying to piece together what happened and is in a state of panic." Oh, a lot of it. Thank you, sir, and I do apologize for kind of staring at you while I was saying it because I felt like that was... It wasn't quite side-eye, it was more... Anything I do... I don't know what cock-eye it means, but I'm gonna say it was cock-eye. Cock-eye. Oh. Good God. I do apologize. All of the eyes. But do you know what I'm saying? It's like this whole back and forth, she says she's harping on the fact that she said I hit him, I hit him, I hit him, because it was so impactful. But she must know that if that's following the conversations that you had in the early morning hours of that day where she has no idea where he is and she's worried she could have hit him, that maybe she's coming to this conclusion because she's panicked and confused and she thinks that's what might have happened. No, and again, we go back to a very important part of the story, which is... This third-party culprit defense is working beautifully for Karen Reid. I don't know what happened, I don't claim to know what happened, I don't want to be seen as someone who's, you know, just attacking one side versus the other because that's the way that the wind seemed to be shifting or that's what the internet wants everyone to say. I'm just looking at this and saying, strategically speaking, it seems to me, like Karen Reid is a very small part of this story. The story that's being laid out by these lawyers, she's barely mentioned. What does get mentioned a lot is all of these other people. And I think that that has to have a major impact on the verdict because the jury must be going, "We've even spoken about the woman who supposedly did this." It seems like all these other people are on trial. And again, maybe that's wrong. But as far as the lawyers go, Karen Reid's lawyers are doing a bang-up job for what she wants. Well, even the prosecution lawyers are doing a bang-up job for what she wants. Yeah. I mean, I watched the whole thing this morning and of course it is, you know, it's the cross-examination. But the only real before the, she said I did it three, I hit him three times, exchanged. The only mention of Karen Reid really was that apparently at the bar, I don't know if it was the waterfall or the other bar, McCabe wanted her to come home because John O'Keefe was still inside the bar. Like, that's the only other time that she was mentioning it. It's not even close to anything involving her murdering someone. Yeah. This isn't like, this is a murder. But that's where I think she is. That's where I think Morrissey and these prosecutors made a big mistake because at first, when this thing first broke, when the story first came out, everyone thought, "Oh, this is so awful. This woman, she was drunk. She shouldn't have been driving. She ran over her boyfriend by mistake." And it was weird, even from the beginning, that you're like, "How are you that out of your mind that you just run over so you don't even notice?" But she was driving and drinking and, you know, it was a horrible story. And then I think what they did was they got a little too bold and they said, "We're going to try to make it seem like she did it on purpose. Like, she was mad." And that's where, and I know that eventually a tip came in and, you know, this whole thing turned on its head. But for me, that idea of it is such a harder thing to prove. Like, "Oh, no. Not only do we think she hit him, but we think she was angry and she did it out of revenge." And it's like, "That's really not adding up. I'm not calling all these people if we're in the morning saying, "Where is he? I can't find him, you know?" And I know my timeline might not be perfect on this. But that part of it to me just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, and I know we haven't heard from Karen Reid yet. I don't know if we will. But the hert Karen Reid's side is not the one that has discrepancies in stories, different stories, people contradicting each other, people repeating the same lines verbatim while testifying. Like, there's all kinds of... Jared, you just said that stuck out to me. You said, "We haven't heard from Karen Reid. I don't know if we will. I don't think we will." I don't think we will either. If I were her lawyers, I'd say no. Absolutely. Yeah, lawyer Jared, knee judge Jared would say, "No, absolutely not. Don't put it on his hand." To think we're only tapping into this legal expertise that you have right now. We've been doing this show for what? How many years now? Well, I mean, I charged her a hefty fee, you know. Oh, my God, is the meter running right now? I didn't want the mail-room manager's retainer on my legal lease to run out. Oh, my God. Can I charge her to the company? Is this a grace curly fee? Oh, my gosh. Okay. When we come back, we've got... We got to talk about this rapper who was on CNN, because I was just explaining to Howie, and he's like, "I don't really get with the big deals." The big deal is that CNN brings on this rapper to talk about P. Diddy without really checking if he even knows P. Diddy. I think the rapper, and I do know one of his songs, by the way, I think the rapper, Cameron, assumed to be a good way to plug his energy drink or something that he was consuming during the interview. I don't know, but he was a disaster, and we'll get to that in just a minute. Plus, we got Brett Tolman, former US District Attorney. We've got Brett on with us at one o'clock, which I'm so excited about, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. You're listening to The Grace Curly Show. This is The Grace Curly Show. [MUSIC PLAYING] This is The Grace Curly Show. [MUSIC PLAYING] Come on. Hey, Mom. What's up? Let's live. All right. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] So that is rapper Cameron. That's one of his big songs. He was invited on CNN. And I guess he didn't know why he was invited on either. And it was a surprise to him. And I just wanted to play a little bit of this, because the interview eventually gets into his relationship or what he knows about P. Diddy, who's obviously embroiled in all of this scandal and controversy. The Feds raided his home in Miami. There was a video of him beating up his ex-girlfriend. So let's just play a little bit of this interview with Cameron. Yeah. What about the industry in general? I mean, so many people have pointed out that Diddy couldn't get away with this stuff if there weren't a lot of people protecting him. Do you think that's the case? Who the talent agent for this drink? Like, you think I'll be sitting around watching what Diddy doing all this? I didn't know this was a Diddy joint that invited me to. Yeah, who booked me for this joint? All right. Well, and I'll be sitting around watching Diddy and all that. This is CNN. Thank gosh, they can bring on great guests like that. I mean, and that's on Abby Phillips either, because if I'm Abby Phillips and I go behind the scenes on that one, Jared, I would be livid. I'd be like, who did book that? And who didn't tell Cameron what we were going to be discussing? I actually have a question about Sean Diddy Combs and that investigation and those charges. We haven't seen any charges yet. I'll ask Brett Tolman about that. We've got a big show coming up. We got Brett Tolman joining us at one o'clock former U.S. attorney. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.