(upbeat music) - We're back on Connect Central. Stan Reicho, Satyar Shah, Connect Central is Parenza. I'm Pacific Vancouver's premier. Chrysler, Dodd, Ram and Jeep Superstore on Second Avenue between Cambien, Maine. Or at enzymepacificcrisler.ca. Quickly Victor from Quitlem. A game war in Philadelphia, Juseppe, Jersey is being auctioned with a single $110,000 bid on it. Reich, is that you brother? (laughing) Hey. I don't know what you guys think we make here in the radio business? It ain't that much. All right. - Not 100k worth of bidding wise. - No. - Don't have that much. Although I support your fellow Italian brethren, that's what I would say. All right. Let's bring in our next guest. That is Kevin Woodley. He is a presentation of White Rock Hyundai. Thanks for this Woodley. How are you? - I'm good. I'm good. Come on. There's no way Reich needs to ask or bid. Like he just, he just gets a field he just said, be Jersey. Does he know what? - I'm actually picturing an entire closet of them back at this place. (laughing) - That's how the, that's how the Von Ontario boys work. That's, that's how it goes. (laughing) - I've just seen these two out training camp. - Oh man. People will never forget the picture that floated around social media from Victoria. So Woodley, the Canucks season has come to an end and it was, it was a frustrating game seven. They made the valiant effort to try and tie it up there late in game seven, but fell a little bit short. What was your takeaway from, from the series and just how Edmonton managed to pull ahead at the end despite the three, two series deficit going into game six? - Yeah, I know. I mean, I think obviously like a lot of people, game six felt like a bit of a wasted opportunity. You know, maybe that's experience, right? Knowing you have one in your back pocket, back home in seven and just not being able to, and I mean, human nature, right? Like the Oilers are just going to hit a level of desperation that's hard to match, but you would have liked to have seen it, you know, be a little bit closer and then, you know, I think the one thing that maybe is getting lost in this a little bit amid the Canucks not producing offensively in those final two games is how good the Oilers were defensively. - Yeah. - And we kind of talked about that. I mean, I do a hit in weekly, in Edmonton on radio there, and as bad as they were at the beginning of the season defensively, that's as good as they were after Nablock took over. And, you know, obviously we talked a little bit, you know, and this was a concern as the series went on about what Edmonton starting to look for, the point shots a little more, try and go away from how they typically generate offense and maybe make our tours uncomfortable with traffic and tips and, you know, some of those elements. And that's something the Canucks typically do very well. Go back and look at how the high forwards were blocking shots for each team. Edmonton's were better. Even when it was Drey Seideler McDavid. McDavid had three blocks in game seven. And as much as a lot of the focus went to our tours on those plays, a lot of them were shots that could have been blocked. I mean, I know J.T. Miller owned the one, you know, on the winner in game four. But there were a bunch of other guys that were going out there, you know, not swimming going, but not laying out and blocking shots. And when the Oilers hide forward, whether it's Drey Seidel, McDavid, or the certain fourth line guys are blocking those shots, like one of those little details that I think when you look back and look back at the tape and look back at the film, that's one of the differences in this series. - No, you're absolutely right. And, you know, the details are what determines a lot of these series. And you're right. I mean, Edmonton was fantastic in game six and seven. The Canucks simply couldn't match it. And in terms of, you know, looking at what happened these last two games, like how much of a missed opportunity was it still, though, for the Canucks, you think, to close out would have been an even more tremendous season by getting to the Western Conference final, considering they had two chances to put away Edmonton. - One, and also missed opportunities because you had a goaltender that you, you know, I don't think you tested. - Right. - And obviously the missed shots were, you know, that was topping game seven, 'cause I thought they got looks and they just missed. And everybody's gonna grow in the McKay of Breakaway. But I think there were opportunities there. Like, they created nine broken play second chances in the entire series, against Stuart Skinner. Sorry, specifically. So, obviously, certainly the entire series, but five of the games that he played. Nine, they scored four goals on them. So why aren't you looking for more of those? Why are you trying to pick corners from distance as opposed to getting pucks into traffic and off of him? 'Cause rebounds in broken plays are things that he struggled with. And you didn't even force him to make those kind of saves 'cause you were missing wide. And at times, feeding transition often. So, yeah, missed opportunities there. And that's a little frustrating just 'cause, you know, I think we saw even in the final eight minutes, like he was gettable, right? And they didn't give themselves a chance. And then obviously the Miller won off the Doroff's leg. Like everyone in conductionation, you look back at that replay and you're like, what if? And when I look at the replay, a big part of the what if is like, Stuart Skinner never turned his head, never had early eyes, was never looking off the puck, did not know J.T. Miller was there. And that puck is on the way and he has not moved off his near side post. He shifted his head, he shifted his shoulders, but he hasn't transitioned. Anything to the far side of the neck goes. And if it doesn't hit the Doroff's leg. So, you know, again, another example of missed opportunities. And yeah, listen, pucks are gonna hit legs and not get through. But I think they could have created more of those chances throughout the game. And that to me is one of the elements that was missed opportunity for the Vancouver Canucks in this series. - Yeah, when I re-watched, I was like, they got themselves into some good areas. They just didn't really do anything with it. Like even the Sam Lafferty chance in the second period, it's like catching release. So he just skated it into like the least dangerous area of the ice made it super easy for Stuart Skinner. - Yeah, and then listen, like again, just given the nature of the pressure and what we saw happen at the end there, like make and make a safe, right? And, you know, hey, listen, part of that is a big body, right? Like you go from having six foot one, Calperk it in there to six foot four. And he might be six foot four and big six foot four. And maybe that's what a big goalie buys you, right? Is make shooters feel like there's not as much room and they need to be fine with their shots and pick some of those spots. But I just think when you looked at the types of goals he gives up creating second chances off of rebounds, off a broken place, like that, that was their all series when they did it. They just didn't do it enough. - So on the Canucks end, I tweeted during game seven that the Oilers had found a weakness in She-Lobs and people were very upset because, you know, She-Lobs for the most part kept the Canucks in that game for large stretches of it. And I don't deny that. It's just, he made a lot of big saves and then gave up a lot of shots from the point. And we talked about this in your hits over the last couple of weeks during this series, even going back to the Nashville series, where She-Lobs may have some room for improvement and it's tracking the puck through those screens. And it's pretty clear when you go back and look at some of the goals the Oilers scored, they changed the way they were generating or trying to generate offense based on what She-Lobs was making saves on and what he wasn't making saves on. - Yeah, no one, I'm just trying to pull up the numbers 'cause I ran them the other day, like the Oilers during the season, where I think, what was it? They were 16th or 17th in the league, you know, trying to create offense off of point shots. And in the playoffs, it was like it just went, it just went up like massively. It was, yeah, during the regular season, two and a half basically screen attempts per game. Against the Los Angeles Kings, 1.4, after the second game against Vancouver, 4.2 per game, highest in the NHL in the playoffs. So the numbers sort of back up. And maybe we talked too much about it on too many radio hits and then somebody listed me and I don't know, but-- - Chris Knoblock was listening in on to us. Because they clearly, they changed the way they were attacking him because that's the thing, like the way they typically generate offense. And we saw that, like even the rebound, like he made some incredible saves. Post to post in tight and you're sort of, not only are you playing to his strengths, but you're giving him the opportunity to make momentum changing saves, right? And so I don't think it's a weakness per say so much. It's just one of the elements that takes time to learn. Like traffic in the National Hockey League is, that's as tough as it gets, right? It's intentional. I think guys like Zach Hyman that know, and I've talked to Goli's around the league about how good Zach Hyman is at this, about the way he makes a Goli move his eyes or switch sides, the way he looks around Zach, right? As the shots coming, like this stuff is done purposely. It's not, you know, it's something you have to sort of learn with time. And so there'll be a progression there and he'll get better at it. But clearly it looked like something new. And as we're targeting and targeted successfully, although again, that second one in game seven, I mean, you know, that's a Hyman tip in front. Again, I think on both of those, there's an opportunity to block a shot further up in the zone that didn't happen. And so if you see the Oilers adjusting and this 23-year-old rookie with nine games of NHL experience before the playoffs is stopping bullets in his teeth on everything else, you know, I think you would make an adjustment, maybe try and eat a couple of those up top too. - Yeah, well, you know what the amazing thing too is? Like he just, he has just over 100 pro games at the NHL, NHL and ECHL level. Like it's not a lot of games, right? Like for a guy who's, you know, a bit in part of the NHL systems since 2020, like there has been a ton of games for him. So there is a lot here that he can still learn. And I don't need to tell you how high Ian Clark and this organization is on Arthur Shilovs. And I think what happened in this playoffs, all it does is really embolden how many games he's going to play next season because I think next year, not to say it's going to be even split, but as long as the kid holds up his end of the bar again, like they're going to give him quite a, I think they want to give him a pretty big workload next season next to Thatcher, Demko. - I mean, it wouldn't surprise me. And the one thing is you're going to have to be patient because there's going to, you're going to have to, there will be other lessons to be learned as you go along. Like we've seen it with other goalies, right? Like it's rarely a straight line. It's rarely linear. What's been exceptional about Arthur is, you know, right back to last year when he played his first NHL game against the Rangers, like that wasn't, he didn't go great, right? But then as the five game stint went on, he just got better and better and better. And then he first came against Edmonton. Like he looked, he looked out of his element. He looked out of position. He didn't look like he was playing the way he normally plays. And I don't believe the moment's ever too big for him. And I know they don't think that's possible. Like they just think he's ready for everything. I think it was just, he'd never seen Conor McDavid and Leon Drey settled. Not just the best power playing the league, but the best power playing in the history of the national hockey league, right? Like so there was a lot of things there. And that's a lot in a playoff situation to go through. Then to reel it in and correct themselves by game two. You know, I mean, I watched the morning skate because they were off between games. So in the morning skate, they're working on, you know, like I want to say remedial, that would be an overstatement. But they're back to basics on his post-entries and exits. Like they're going and drilling and sort of reestablishing some of these habits that went missing on him a little bit in game one. And he picks it up and he does it. So, yeah, it wasn't perfect. To be honest, the adjusted numbers weren't overly kind. Like they're not, you know, as flattering as the raw numbers, they grayed out more around expected as opposed to well above. But I think a lot of that is game six, obviously. And in the point shots, right? Like even though clear sight values them higher, especially layered screens, you know, they're still, they weren't all layered. Some of them were just single defensive screens and stuff like that. So, you know, those sort of hurt you in the math and it's a small sample. I mean, I have no problem with the way he played. I think everybody should be excited about what's there for the future. You know, the Canucks are. But again, patience. It's not always going to look like it did in game seven, not over the course of an 82 game season, not with gaps between starts, not with, you know, lots more lessons to be learned. There will be ups and downs. (upbeat music) - Sportsnet 650, breaking news. Oh, yes, we have some breaking news. A mid-stay Kevin Woodley hit breaking news from the National Hockey League. Rick Tockett is your 2024 Jack Adams Award winner and is the coach of the year in the NHL joining a Lamvino and Pat Quinn, as other Canucks coaches to win it in the past. I mean, Woodley, we've talked about Tockett's impact on the Canucks going back to, you know, the final 30-some odd game stretch of last season and the turnaround that the team made defensively. And, you know, we look at how they played through the course of the season, how they developed over the 82 games and how they got to game seven of the second round. It was on their foundation as a team defensively, which, you know, given what they were before Rick Tockett showed up is quite a remarkable 180 from what this team used to be before Rick Tockett got behind the bench. Listen, he had me when he was talking about line changes. (laughing) - First thing he said, we got to make shorter line changes. - But on it was right, yeah, I know 100%, man. - He was right, I mean, how many times did we talk about that in the last few years, right? Like, the line changes, all these things, the details, that drove us nuts, Kevin. - See, and that's the thing, it's not just, it's not just, ooh, they became a great defensive team. This isn't Jim Hiller coming in and going 1-3-1 on the LA Kings. - Yeah. - This is habits. This is work rate, this is hustling to the bench so you don't leave, and that's being a good teammate. So you don't leave the next guy up in trouble because he didn't hustle and he's got to catch up to the play. This is not turning over the puck at the offensive blue line in a way that leads to odd man rushes, even if it might get you some offense every once in a while. But it just as often leads to odd man rushes again. So like so much of their improvement defensively, yes, there were some structure things in terms of how they defended. They brought in a bunch of defenseman who again, another pet peeve of mine from the past couple of years, defenseman who not only knew what lane to be in on a penalty kill or at five on five, but were willing to eat a puck when they were there. All those habits add up to a team that possessed the puck more, played with it more in the offensive end, didn't give up rush chances the way they used to. That was the biggest change to me. They stopped giving up the free goals that they used to give up on the regular. And you add that to a better defensive structure and better defensive personnel to play that structure. And it's just, I mean, I don't think it's a surprise that he wins this award, that he wins the Jack Adams. And I think it looks good on him and it's well deserved. 'Cause, and I thought he said it really well. After game seven, amidst all the emotion of that loss, I know management is part of this and the players are too, but I think what he brought here is really what began putting the respect back, you know, on that jersey and for this team. - Yeah, and I mean, he won an landslide here guys. He had 483 points. Andrew Brunette was second, 145. So it was-- - Yeah, it was the first. - At 82 first plays votes, so the next highest was Brunette with eight. So the overwhelming victor of the Jack Adams award, Rick Talkett, and we were discussing in the first segment would lead to about how the Canucks, obviously had some strengths and weaknesses. Their defense, their buy-in, how they played was a strength, but one thing we talked about was obviously they can stand to generate more off the rush. And one of the things that I believe is, it's not that the way the Canucks play prevents them from creating off the rush. It's perhaps having personnel that can allow them to generate more off the rush. Do you think the way the Canucks play still has room for more creativity and rush chances of the personnel changes? - Yeah, I mean, again, it's that fine line between creating that without giving up the other, right? Like, so can you break out? I just don't know, Seth, that they have the team speed. - Exactly. - Who catch teams in transition right now. And turn pucks over even in their own end when they've got all this structure and then beat the other team up the ice, right? And so one thing you don't want is to cheat to create it, and you don't want when you have it to sort of make silly plays that turn it back the other way. I think you can have all those things co-exist, but I just don't know that right now, they have enough sort of top to bottom team speed to get out and transition and beat other teams up the ice, beat back checks up the ice. I mean, they created some, but for the most part of all year, they were in the bottom part of the league in terms of, and that's the other thing that hurt against Edmonton. Not only was Edmonton a great rush defense team, but that's the best way to score on Stuart Skinner is he can get them off the rush. And between the way the Oilers defend off the rush and how little the Canucks created, we kind of knew going in that was never really gonna happen. - Before we let you go, I'd be remiss if we didn't ask you about Thatcher Demko at least a little bit, you know, it seemed as though he was ramping up and might have been able to play, we expect would have been able to play should the Canucks have gotten through game seven. But I guess, you know, I know we've been over this a little bit before, but should there be any worry about Thatcher Demko having multiple knee injuries to close out this season? - Well, if you've never a good thing when you have multiple injuries to the same joint, they've said it's not the same injury. So that's a positive. You've got the entire summer to get healthy. And I know how much he works at these things. And I know how much better the direction he has on these things has become in the past couple of years in terms of how he goes about it. So I understand inherently there's gonna be this worry. And, you know, like at the end of the day, this is a position that is, you know, chewing up and spitting gold tenders out around the league. Look at Toronto, right? Like how big I was on Joseph Wall, and yet the same questions are being asked there. Can he stay healthy? So, you know, I've said it this a few times. I believe that many of these injuries were intertwined and one led to another and at times because some of the work he does now wasn't being done back then. So I'm sort of less red flag than everyone else, but I'm, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that, you know, that there isn't, you know, that there's nothing there. Like obviously there's injuries and so he's gonna have to, you haven't done it till you've done it, right? You're gonna have to get through a season as a number one with a number one workload and get through healthy. I do think that backing off the workload might be part of this and we're seeing that trend around the league. You know, I kind of want to wait to hear and sort of hear, and I don't know if we'll get this specific, but exactly, you know, how this came about, what he thinks about the injury, how it happened and what the summer looks like for him from a rehab, perhaps standpoint. He was close. I was shocked at what I saw on the morning of game seven. He was doing everything that you would need to do to play in terms of the positions he was getting into. So I don't know if it would have been game one if they'd advanced or game two or three, but you know, my understanding is he had basically been cleared and it was just a matter of getting him the reps to be comfortable at game speed. So he felt good about going in there like he could keep up with pucks and bodies flying around all over the ex and they just ran out of time for that to happen between him being cleared and the end the season ending. So that's a positive that he was able to get to that point four weeks after the injury. It leads you to believe it's not severe. Shouldn't be something and has long-term effects. I'll be curious to see what the plan is for the summer for him and for them and how to handle this, but at the very least without this being a Thatcher-Demco thing, I think you have to find a way for any number one goaltender to sort of hold that workload back as much as you can. - Ah, what could have been. Woodley, we always appreciate the time. Thanks so much for this. - Thanks, guys. We'll talk to you next week. - There he is. Kevin Woodley on Sports at 650 Bratty by White Rock Hyundai. Visit the showroom on King George in White Rock or whiterockhunday.com. Just needed to get through game seven and your Vesna finalist netminder could have come back into the lineup. - Yeah, I mean, it's one of the what-ifs, right? And like we talked about, I don't think this Canucks team, this core has peaked. Like I think there's still more peaks for them to get to, but you never know how many chances you get to go deep in the playoffs. And you were one game away from going to the Western Conference final. And listen, Dallas is very formidable. They would have been the clear favorites. If I'm being honest, I'm not sure I would have picked the Canucks to win that series, but they had a fighter's chance. But if you have Demko going, right? Not having Besser would have really hurt them, but it's not like Dallas doesn't have some injuries. But the thing is, you never know how a series turns out. And half the battle is being there. And if you're a game away from getting to the Western Conference final, I can never know what can happen, man. - So coming up, Rick Talkett's just been announced as the Jack Adams award winner. He is speaking with Hockey Night in Canada. So we'll try to turn around some of that audio and deliver it to you. Of course, we'll get to speak to Rick Talkett tomorrow at the Canucks end of season, availabilities as well, which will be live from Roger's Arena with Jamie Dodd and Canucks Talk on Sportsnet 650 starting at 11 a.m. tomorrow. We'll have some thoughts on Rick Talkett and his influence, his impact on the team and how that can continue to develop next on Canucks Central. - Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drans. Get your daily dose of Canucks Talk with us weekdays from 12 to two on Sportsnet 650 or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. (upbeat music) - It's Dan Reacho, Satio Shaw here in the Kintec Studio. It's Canucks Central. A lot to get to, we'll get to, overrated and underrated in just a little bit. What are you chuckling about? - I saw Spencer Carberry's name and I thought about Cadbury again. - Are you going Cadbury? - Cadbury. That's all I can think about now when I see Carbury. I'll think about me calling him Cadbury. - Great Richie Rich reference. - That just was chocolate. - Yes. - Cadbury. - So, Rick Talk at the Jack Adams Award winner, coach of the year there was really never much doubt. Although, sometimes the award voting, how it goes, maybe there can be some doubt, but really shouldn't have been any doubt. I mean, Rick Talk had deserved the award just for how many quotes he gives us on a regular basis and is probably the best quote in the league as a coach. So, that definitely helps. Speaking of which, he was just on with Hockey Night in Canada. Here is Rick Talkett in conversation with Ron McLean and the rest of the Hockey Night panel. - The winner is with an amazing rise from sixth a year ago to first in the Pacific Division. There were minus 22 a year ago goals sworn against, plus 56 this year. Just an incredible Ron Rick for your Vancouver Canucks. Congratulations to you. I wasn't going to go down this path, but it's such a funny playoff story. 85, game one, Gretzky's killing the penalties. In your end, Philadelphia end, Marsh hits him, prop hits him, then you smoke him and go on. You had a little bit of a conversation. - Yeah, I'm hammering out Gretz and he goes, "Take it easy, take it easy, relax." So they said, "You're getting this for seven full games "I'm going to give it to you." He goes, "Well, I don't know about you, "but I don't want to plan on going four." So, we ended up going five. I mean, he was off by it. I think he was off by a game, so. - Well, you know, it's a funny thing. You remember, Pelly Lindberg had a quadricep injury, couldn't finish the series. Tim Kerr had a knee injury, couldn't play. So it was kind of like Besser and Demkoa, not that she loves, wasn't fantastic, but it kind of reminded me of that. Listen, the comeback, it was inspiring game. Really was Rick and I go to the Canada Cup in '87 and again, Gretzky, you're down three nothing and Keenan double shifts. You and Brent Sutter and Brian Propp and you guys score two to get it to three, two, but it's four, two after 20 and Keenan walks in and Gretzky said, "I always remember, "we're going to get blistered," right? And Keenan said, "You guys are going to be part of the "greatest comeback in hockey history "and you walked out of the room." So I want to know, what did you say in the second intermission Monday night 'cause it sure worked? - Yeah, and I got that from Mike and other coaches that I've learned from, you know, it's, you know, obviously things weren't going well for us and Mike Temperman, I had to give them something and I said to the players, you know, I'd set a play on an offensive play. I think if we get the puck behind the neck, it'll be Swiss, we look for this. And I said something about a neutral play. I think a calm guys down a little bit, like, you know, maybe they're expecting me to get mad or something. And I think, I just had to give them something to hang their hat on and, you know, we made a nice try at the end. - Jennifer Botterill's on our panel. Her dad, Cal, of course, was Mike's tranquilizer gun, really, but I wonder if you, I know Mark Howell spoke glowingly about Cal, kind of getting him to relax. That's the thing I'm amazed at you. You're so intense, all those Gordy Howe hat tricks in yet, you seem so chill in the heat of the battle. - Yeah, I mean, you know, Ron, I try to, you know, I have the analogy, you're on a plane, the cockpit door is open and it's bumpy and it's going and the plane is dancing all over the place. And if you're, the pilots are biting their nails and sweating, what are you going to do, right in the back? So, you know, you want that, you want that pollen, nice and calm, having a coffee, relax. And I think, you know, I've learned that over the years. I might not have been that when I was in Tampa and a little bit in Phoenix. And I think I've learned from my stops to be a little bit calmer and help the players out a little bit more, nor of a partnership. - Family, you know, you, when you went into the Flyer Hall of Fame, Rick, you thanked a security guard. Lou, I think was his name. And you know what the story there is? If you remember, tell about your 10 buddies that you couldn't get tickets. - Yeah, so it was game, it was in 1987, game six. And I promised, 10 buddies from Scarborough came down to Winnebago. I think I said, I can get you in, but I couldn't get tickets. So Lou at the back said, "Talk, 7, come around 6.30. "I'll turn my back." They got, they have to be here at 6.30 and they ran and some of the buddies were at that time. They sat on that, they were sitting on the stairs. Any seat they could, they all spread apart. Probably, and I got to put up with Vancouver's fans. They're like, you know, give them a show. That building was so loud, game six. It kind of reminds me of Vancouver. - Well, you know, Rogers Arena, the staff there all say the same thing about you, Rick, is you create that family. It's not just the players. That's a thing you really did. I mean, you came in for Bruce Boudreau. Not an easy act to follow because he loved him. And what a job you had. So I wish we could go on, but just a hearty congratulations. Enjoy a little break here, but yeah, well done. - Well, thanks, Ron. Like I said, much appreciated from the organization ownership and my coaches, Unreal and the players. - There is Rick Tockett in conversation with Ron McClain. Yeah. (laughing) Any more references to the mid 80s we can make here or what? - But hey, you know what, that story, the Gretzky story was great. - It was great. - That was a good one. We got a good laugh out of us too. - Tockett and Gretzky joined as the hit. - Was it the story we laughed at or the fact that he made a story about '88 or '85? - No, the story was great. 'Cause he said, you know, he was like, he was a cross-checking Gretzky behind the net. And he's like, yeah, I'm gonna do those seven games. Gretzky's like, I'm only applying to B or four. (laughing) - And they were done in five. So that was a little tidbit there. - And the thing that Ron said at the very end though, about how the staff loves them, this is true. Like when you talk to people in the organization, anybody who crosses paths with them regularly or every once in a while, says the same thing. Every single day they see him, consistent. Same guy that shows up, same attitude. He's very open to discussion, right? And as we know, he's not afraid of telling him like it is. He's not afraid of, you know, being strict if he has to be or whatever. But the sentiment you get is a guy who's very comfortable. And we've seen it like one of the things we talk about with him is like a very comfortable in his own skin. There is no situation where he feels like ruffled or whatever. And he's very just calm and cool and chill, just like you know, Ron mentioned. And I think those things go a long way. But people in the organization can't say enough good things about him. And when the leader of your team and the coach in many ways is also kind of the leader of the organization 'cause they're up out front all the time, right? Meaning with the media too. And everybody kind of evolves around them. When your leader is that type of person and carries himself that way and has that weight about him. Like it really sets a really good standard culture wise. And that's the other part that, you know, we don't talk about, we don't see. But behind the scenes, you know, people in the organization gush about. - The coaching part of it is not just Xs and O's. And I've certainly learned that more as I've gotten older and as you get a little closer to it. But yeah, sure, like Xs and O's, they do matter. And making adjustments in series and all those things are very important. But at the end of the day, like being the head coach of a team, it's so much more than just that. It's setting that culture and being able to get guys to buy in and managing all of these big personalities that you have in this room and cultivating an environment that people can succeed in and finding their ultimate version of success. Whatever that is for each individual. And I know that sounds pretty cliche, but we haven't really seen any of the prior head coaches have that kind of success even with a large amount of the same players and a same core that's been here in Vancouver for a number of years. - Yeah, and obviously the Xs and O's matter, adjustments matter, right? And you wanna have a coach that can get by in and also be this great tactician and have a staff that they can, you know, work together with and be cutting edge or be at least ahead of the curve on. - But the most important thing you can have as a coach is buying. - Yeah. - And you have more success sometimes even having, if you have full buy-in on a, say, somewhat imperfect plan, it's better than no buy-in on the perfect plan. - Yeah. So you can have the best Xs and O's be the best tactician. If you can't get people on board, it doesn't matter. And that's why how you relate to people, especially when it comes to coaching, that's the most important thing. Can you get players to be the best versions of themselves? And a lot of that comes down to you understanding the game too, putting them in positions to be successful. But I think that's maybe the most critical thing he did in terms of his day-to-day approach on ice, he always put players in positions to be successful. How often did you see a guy being a spot where you're like, man, this guy is swimming here. - Yeah. Not very often, you know, the one that even comes to mind here, and hey, if you look at patterns and statistics, it didn't work out. But the switch he made in game five, when, you know, we hear from Patterson, and he seems pretty down on his luck when he spoke to media that day. And, you know, we talked about it here on the show. I didn't love the body language and the lack of enthusiasm we saw from Patterson that day. But also that same day, when Rick Talkett was asked about Patterson and how he's gonna change the lineup, is he gonna change things with Patterson? He said, no, I'm gonna keep it the same. You know, I'm gonna stick with Miller and Besser on the top line and Lynn Holm with Joshua and Garland. And, you know, the top six is working right now, so I don't envision us changing that. And then, you know, he had a chat with Patterson. They went over some video and, you know, he gave him the, he sent over the olive branch and he put Patterson with Lynn Holm for game five. And we saw Patterson play with Miller in game seven after the Besser injury. And, you know, yeah, it didn't provide enough, but, you know, we saw better versions of Patterson, certainly in game five and in game seven, from my perspective. Would it have really broken out if the playoffs went on? We're only left to wonder, and it's completely hypothetical, but I felt Patterson was going in a better direction, trending in a better way after, you know, Rick Talkett made some of those adjustments. And that's just one example of so many others, you know, sending the olive branch to Brock Besser and challenging these players and seeing them find the best versions of themselves. It's a large part of what the coaching part of this is. Is, you know, having that conversation, having that, as he says, it's such a cliche, man. Partnership with the players to the where like, hey, maybe I see it this way, but maybe we'll have to meet halfway somewhere to try and figure out how we can get the best version of this. - Yeah, absolutely, and he's spoken about how he's more open to having his mind change now than he was in the past. Like he's not quite as stubborn as he used to be and he understands that you have to give and take and everything. And I think that shows a lot of maturity, right? And, you know, I know he was criticized for his lack of success prior to coming to Vancouver. And yeah, I mean, you can look at some of the track record and say, okay, well, this wasn't great, but also look at the situations he found himself in. But the experience is invaluable. You look at some of the best coaches, like you get some more time under your belt. Like you can become a better coach. And I think we're seeing a guy who has learned from prior experiences. And if you see somebody who has learned from prior experiences, that's also good indication of him learning from his current experiences. - Yes. - And when you look at everything that went on this season, I'm not saying, you know, we're gonna, we should fall to Rick Talkett for what happened against Edmonton, but I'm sure he's gonna look at that series and look at, okay, some of the adjustments that Edmonton made, Game 6 and 7, that they weren't able to match. Now, how much of that was tactically, they didn't make adjustments or how much of it was their players could an overcome? You know, that type of a game anyway. - Couldn't execute. - And at the end of the day, it comes down to execution, right? But those are the things that I would be encouraged about that even in moments where you thought, okay, he maybe lost this one. Like, I don't love having, like, power play they gotta figure out. Like, the idea of having a heroic on power play one in Game 7 to me was just, like to me, it made an already sputtering power play. It threw a bad wrench into it. It just got worse, you know? And it just became so, so, impotent in that game was ridiculous how bad it got. But, I'm sure those are things you'll learn from. And that's why I'm encouraged that this is a guy that, yes, he won the Jack Adams in his first year, but this won't be the peak of his coaching tenure in Vancouver. - The interesting thing about the Jack Adams Award doesn't necessarily mean that coach is gonna be with their current club for a long time. - No, no, I will say though, the last time a Canucks head coach won in his first year was Eileen Vigno. - Yeah. - And he went on to have a long tenure in Vancouver. - And a successful tenure. - A very successful one and got the team within a win of the Stanley Cup, even the prior winner of the Jack Adams in 1992 with Pat Quinn. - Yeah. - Got the team within a win of the Stanley Cup. So, like, yeah. There is, you know, the Canucks history with this award is pretty good. But otherwise, you know, Daryl Sutter was the winner a couple of years ago. Bruce Cassidy and Boston in 2020 didn't last much longer beyond that. A couple of years, obviously. Gerard Galant with the Vegas Golden Knights didn't last forever as the Jack Adams Award winner with them. So, you know, it's, it is an award and it's just, it goes hand in hand with coaching. Like, there's an expiry date. And yeah, a lot of head coaches in the National Hockey League don't last very long. Already, Rick Tockett is in the top half of longest tenured head coaches. - He's been here a year in a quarter. - He's been here for 14 months on the job, 18 months on the job. So it's, you know, it is very much a lot of turnover at the position. But, you know, I think the way he approaches it is, again, not just about the X's and O's. I think, and the people management of it all, the way Rick Tockett seems to really relate to the players is maybe the thing that makes me most confident in how he'll be able to continue to evolve in the role. - Yeah, and if he does evolve, like he has a chance to join LA and Vigno and Pat Quinn as the, maybe be the top three coaches in Connects history, right? They're the only three coaches to win at Jack Adams, but it's only year one. Vigno had seven years. Quinn had a long tenure. He was here for like, you know, a decade, but it was also being a GM, being a coach. He wasn't, you know, the entire tenure being a coach, but he is often referred to or adored as the greatest Connects coach, right? Like a lot of people view him that way for the history of the organization. Does Rick Tockett have a chance to be mentioned in that breath? He does, right? Because the reason he does is what did Vigno have? He had a young chord that grew in with him, that hit their prime with him. Same thing to look at with Pat Quinn, with Bury and Linden. Well, we've made the relations to or the comparables comps to the 2011 team and how, you know, their core essentially started, you know, when those guys were in their mid 20s, when the stands were in their mid 20s and they took a step as a group, as a core. And that's what I'm hoping this season has been, right? The beginning of this era or the next six, seven, hopefully a decade where this Connects team is competitive year in a year out and hopefully getting to a cup final and obviously winning, that sounded a cup, right? But it's something that you can see happening because of the core you have. And we talk about ways you can still improve and what they need to do and prospects and all that. But with the young core they have, or the core they have, maybe not as a young anymore, they're very talented. They showed this year that in the right circumstance, they can be a very competitive team. And if this guy's the right coach, like this might be like the next six or seven years of real competitive program building hockey under this head coach. And I think up until now, to me, there's no debate. Yeah, that he's been the best move this management team has done, has made since they came and took over in Vancouver. - Well, who are the best and longest tenured head coaches in the NHL, like, you know? - John Cooper. - John Cooper, Robert Moore. - Brandy Moore, yeah. - It's not, again, to go back to the ideas. It's not just about the talent on your team. It's not just about your exes and o's as a coach. It's about the program that you build. And you look at even in the NFL, you know, guys that build the best program. Pete Carroll with Seattle. I know it didn't last forever, it recently ended. But Pete Carroll with Seattle. Andy Reed with the Kansas City Chiefs. Bill Belichick and his long tenure with the Patriots. Those teams constantly punching above their weight. It's about building a program as an organization. - And having a clear identity of what you are, what your structure is, what the staples are, so to speak. It's very clear what those are in Vancouver. And I think the organization, it's so valuable to them that it's going to impact how they go about building this team. - Yeah. - Like to them, they view it as, okay, we have this defense or we have this way of playing that no matter who we put in, that's a competent NHL player, we're going to be okay and survive. - Yeah. - Which means if you find players that are more than competent, you can have a lot of success. So how they play and the types of players they feel like they can plug and play in no matter what is because of the confidence they have in their style of play. Now, if you don't have that structure, you can't approach team building the same way. - No. It was a critique I had of the previous management group where it was like, - What are you, what are you trying to be and who are you adding to try to be that? - They were kind of like, you know, how we always say the NHL is a copycat league, but Jim Benning kind of lived that. You know, he was just like, it seemed like they were trying to copy the teams that were winning each year and trying to add that to their team, but it's like, you can't be a million things at once. Maybe you try to add some elements to your team, but at the end of the day, your foundation has to be your foundation and your identity as a team. - And they've established that now. And when you have that established, it makes it a lot easier for an organization to be able to identify players that can fit into that and what they need to be successful. So instead of now you taking this buckshot approach to trying to add players and hoping and praying that it works out, you can be very fine about who you believe is going to fit in what you want to do. And that's why this offseason to me is going to be super fascinating because it may not necessarily be these, I mean, again, like we mentioned Genssel and the big fish that connects are not going to be afraid of fishing in those waters at all, but they may be making some moves around the edges that you might be like, what, back move? And then all of a sudden you see it kind of work, like in cold last year when you got signed, people were like, wow, how did this go? I mentioned Jason Zooker, for instance, like you have to look at how they fit in and how this team wants to play. And I think once you start really, if you start realizing what this connects team really is, it gets a lot easier when you start looking at players around the league and be like, yeah, this guy can work here. Oh, no, this guy's not going to work here. Like you can really tell who's going to be able to fit your brand hockey. Like when you watch Carolina, we know exactly what you need to do when you play in Carolina. And if you're not that player, you're not going to have success. Yeah. And ultimately, a coach needs a buy-in from his top players, Quinn Hughes, Elias Pederson. You know, they're going to be two big factors in Rick Tockett's forward tenure with the Vancouver Canucks. But he is your Jack Adams award winner, 82 first place votes. He was on 109 ballots. I mean, we've said it a bunch. And I know Noonan Enrichment texted in. He's like, I put a future bet on Rick Tockett back in November after listening to you guys. Maybe I should have bet more. Shouts to that, Noonan. Glad we could give you a couple of extra shekels. There was good value on it, man. It was good value early in the season on Rick Tockett. And we said, hey, if the Canucks make the playoffs, he's probably going to win it. Yeah. And they did more than just make the playoffs. They ended up winning the Pacific Division, of course. So, you know, sometimes you wonder, like, does the rest of the league sort of see what is going on here with Rick Tockett and how well he's managed? But, you know, it was a landslide. Andrew Burnett was in second, but it wasn't like a distant second. Is the easy way to put it. Yeah, 483 points to 145, right? I mean, and John Torterella, remember? He was all the rage. He ended up getting three votes, two second place votes, one third place. I think he kind of crushed it at the end of the season, the way that he handled the Philadelphia Flyers at the end of the year. Yeah, he literally crushed his own odds of winning the Jack Adams Award, right? And it's interesting, though, that a guy like Chris Knoblock, a lot of people mentioned, like he got a decent run for a guy who came in and took over. He got 64 first place votes. I mean, for 64 points, three first place votes. Wow. Yeah. So, I mean, you know. Knoblock, you know, like, he did a pretty incredible job. Remember when he took over the job that I was skeptical that the Oilers would even make the playoffs. And, you know, they ended up, you know, getting to the last week of the season was still within your shot of the Canucks to win the Pacific. 100% and the way, again, like, if you look at the end of the series, the adjustments that they made. And yeah, we know the lineup stuff, but I thought how they handled the Canucks in a neutral zone in game six and seven. Yeah, really hurt the Canucks and try to find flow in the series. I mean, to end the series. So now I thought the Canucks couldn't really answer that in game six and seven. McDavid even echoed that, you know, I think in the lead up to game seven, he said, basically the team that wins, the neutral zone wins, has won every game of the series. Yeah. And, you know, Tock had spoke about that a lot too. It's, yeah. It's kind of the thing that we maybe overlook the most when, 'cause it's kind of boring. It was. It's kind of like Dead Man's, Redline. You kind of like, yeah, what happens, whatever. Are you in the opposite zone yet? Are you scoring yet? Are you shooting the puck? It's like, what happens in the neutral zone decides the game? Well, that's no fun. Yeah. Well, it's usually when people, like, look on their phones, right? It's like when the puck's in the neutral zone or whatever. But yeah, it's boring, but yeah, it's the boring things that help you win hockey in the playoffs, man. Speaking of coaching, a couple of decisions made today by teams in the National Hockey League. So potentially guys that could be up for Jack Adams Award next year. Yeah. The Kings remove the interim tag from Jim Hiller. He will remain the head coach of the LA Kings, which will make them the opposite of appointment viewing next year. Yeah, I mean, I don't think they're going to play the same way, but what you're surprised, I was surprised. I was surprised they can. Like given some of the quotes that came out of there, like end of season of Wales, like Kevin Fiala's like, I'm not sure I want to play like this. He's like, I'm like, try something different. I'm like, try something different. This is not something I want to keep doing. So to me, I don't know. I mean, they know better right with how he is with the team. And maybe they feel like he's the right guy there. Maybe they just didn't see any better options. Yeah, and you know, whatever. And if they don't play more courageous hockey, like that team is going nowhere. It's plausible that it's just like he took over the job and they were kind of reeling at the time. And he's just like, I need to stabilize the situation. This is the way we're going to play for the rest of the year. Right, like, you know, they did. But they've got to like, you can't expect to have any success in the playoffs if you don't forecheck. No. And they got crushed by the Edmonton Oilers by playing as passively as they did. And, you know, opposite for the Canucks. You know, of course, you know, the Oilers were expected to win that series, but Canucks had on the brink by not playing such a passive style. Although that didn't look that way in game six and seven so much. Sheldon Keefe immediately hired after losing the Maple Leaf job, gets the New Jersey Devils head coaching gig. I think this is, I was talking to a couple of Leaf fans today about it. And they were just like, did we make a mistake firing this guy? Like, how come he got hired so quick? But you should have worried. I mean, I think with Sheldon Keefe, and I don't mean this. I think he, let's just say there's a lot of positivity around Sheldon Keefe when people speak, right? So like there is positive buzz around him too and everything like that, right? I think one thing is fair to say. He did a lot with that roster. And it wasn't a very good roster. Plus the injuries that they also encountered in the course of the season. I don't think he's a bad coach to me. It's like his demeanor. And maybe he learns from it and everything like that, whatever. But I thought it was funny because after the season, he made, when he made his video, he was like, I'm going to give my family the time they deserve. That time was what? Like 10 days. Yes. So they deserve 10 days. He ended the, he hit send on the video and he got on a flight and went to New Jersey to have an interview with the team. Yeah. And so that is the head coaching news in the NHL today. Conference finals beginning tonight currently on Sportsnet. The Rangers and Florida Panthers are in the first period of play, of course, Dallas, Edmonton, beginning tomorrow. It's Dan Racho, Satyar Shah, overrated, underrated as next on Canucks Central.
