[MUSIC] >> Fan morning, Joe Sports time five, nine in the fan man, it's Brent Gunning. [MUSIC] >> Some blue jays. [MUSIC] >> Loom to the Chicago White Sox. >> Yesterday, after beating them in game one. >> Got a tipper cap. >> Got away. >> A White Sox team that used to employ Kevin Polar. They don't anymore, he's an angel now. He's now hit three home runs in his 13 games with the angels. >> Nice. >> Yeah, that too is. >> One, he hit with the White Sox, that's a grand total of four. Same number of home runs that won Vladimir Guerrero Jr's hit. >> Yes. >> This season. That's not great, it's not necessarily what you want. Getting two hitter fewer in four of your 47 games this season also not what you want. But hey, it's only May, there's plenty of runway left. For the second worst offense in all of Major League Baseball. But if it continues down this path, clearly there's going to be a discussion about. A sell off of the pending free agents, of which Vlad and Bo are not. They have one more year of team control. But yeah, the Jimmy Garcia's of the world, the you say Kakuchis, clearly, the blue jays are going to take calls on those guys. But what would it take for the blue jays to take calls on the big dudes? Who have clearly underperformed and Bo to a larger extent than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. But Bo has a greater history of bouncing back after slow starts than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Mark Feinstein of MLB.com has a very intriguing recent report. I love this when you get the anonymous executive, but you get a little bit of breadcrumbs as to who they are because at least you get to shop the list in half. An American League, executive says in regards to the blue jays willingness to move on from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. or Boba shed this season. I don't think they're opposed to it. They've talked to teams about it. The ass were ridiculous, but I think they're going to try to retool a lot and using those guys to get pieces, maybe the way to do it now in the other league. So I guess like Mark Feinstein has one guy in each league, right? So this is, I don't know, so the, the AL guy is, is probably more plugged into the blue jays. Even though you play every team at least once now this season, there's a more balanced schedule and generally play like, yeah, yeah, but let's hear from the NL executives. I can't wait. That was the AL perspective. This guy's in the national league. Okay. Neither of them are off the great starts. I would add parenthetically. Good job by you. Honestly, like what insight, but other teams might view them as change of scenery guys. Everyone knows what these guys can do, but that roster might just need a change to which I would say this is incredible. The the NL guy is plugged into what's happening with as a text fine sand and get this guy. We'll disguise his voice, get this guy on. So what do you, what do you make of that report, it being May, yes. And despite Louisa rise already being traded this season, it's not trade season until at least July and rise is a free agent though, right? I didn't, I thought this was his last year team control. I could be wrong about that. That does obviously change the math. Well, love, like a lot of it. I was about to say a little bit, but it does change the math on that. And I thought he was, I thought his contract was up after this year, not. I was wrong. He's under team control for next season as well. But yeah, trades in May don't often happen, especially of that significance. So trade season, mark fine sand is going to be one of our go to guys in July, but it's May. And already he's got a quote from an American League executive that the Blue Jays are not opposed to trading bow and blood. Yeah, I think that to me, that sounds like, I mean, you're constantly, if you are the GM of the Blue Jays and you've seen the way this season has played itself out, you should be laying the groundwork for lots of conversations that are going to be had around the trade deadline. And you know, if you're not ready to capitulate yet, you should be keeping an eye on the trade market. So I don't think this is Atkins or even like James Click or whoever calling some team up being like, Hey, interested in bow? You interested him? I don't think that's what's happening. But you talk to teams and, you know, you always have wide ranging conversations. I'd imagine, I think it is infinitely, this is crazy to say, I think, but I think it's infinitely more likely that bow gets dealt this year than, than Vlad. If you're a team that is a World Series contender or you need that extra bat, what is your first base DH slot look like? And is it better than what you've been getting out of Vlad? And with bow, I can actually see a team saying, ah, that is the guy we want to go in on now. This year, it hasn't worked out, but yeah, that was my read on it that it's, I don't think they're shopping them. I don't think it's anything like that. I think you have to gauge the market. And I think it's way more likely that you deal Vlad in season than, or sorry, the deal bow in season more so than Vlad. Yeah, I think you wouldn't be doing your job if you weren't listening on both guys. And that that probably hasn't started this season, like that's from the word go, like before Vlad even arrived, even though he was the highest touted prospect in the history of baseball. Hey, you know, you got to be open to the idea of like, show Hey, Oh, Tony. And Mike Trump being a package deal for sure, right? Like nobody's untouchable, understand that and all the pro sports. But the why the reason why I think this is starting to gain more and more momentum. So I think no matter what happens going forward for this Blue Jays team, whether they rattle off a bunch of wins against the white Sox and the Tigers and the pirates. And they get themselves back to 500 and we're talking about them being in the mix for a wild card in the American League, you're insane. If you don't chop and try it away, you say kakuchi and Jimmy Garcia, if you're not resigned, of course, it's like, it doesn't matter that you can make the playoffs this season. You can still make the playoffs without those guys if you're 500 because everybody makes the playoffs. And yes, the 84 win Arizona Diamondbacks made the World Series last year. So yeah, proof of concept for, you know, teams that ain't so great, just getting a chip in a chair and getting all the way to the final postseason series. So I don't think as currently constructed the Blue Jays are like a Jimmy Garcia away from tipping the scales to being like playoff team to like championship contender. So no matter what happens, those guys have to be shopped in July. But if things continue down this road where you continue to look like not just a below average offense, like quite literally the worst offense in baseball, I know that the second worst, but they just lost to the worst. So like the worst offense in baseball, sort of properties, it's how it works. If you continue to look like not just miles away from being a World Series contender, but like miles away from being in the tier of playoff contenders. And this is not a quick fix to turn into that team in 25, like what we're talking about here is being 10 and 15 and 20 games under 500 into July. If that happens, you have to be open to the idea of that, like more than open, like you have to actively shot them because going into next season with the uncertainty of what you are as far as a record is concerned and the uncertainty of resigning those guys and the idea of losing them in the offseason for nothing and trying to rebuild without anything for those guys or the potential of those guys is an untenable situation. So the more two hit games against the Chicago White Sox, we see the more realistic a scenario. This has to be, and I don't care what Ross Atkins will tell you publicly, because again, like what is he going to say? I think behind closed doors, this has to be a conversation that's taking place. >> Yeah, it has to be, and I think the other part of it is that we talk about disappointing moments of if you cannot take and let's say the season progresses at least the way I think it's going to where they're very much in the camp of at least selling off all the guys you mentioned of a cocochi or a Garcia is you, all we have talked about throughout this areas, yes, the, you know, the inability of the offensive times, but also that there hasn't been help coming. You need to turn, if this is going to not be, if this is going to be the year from hell or something close to that, you need to turn that into a couple of pieces for the org and you know, cocochi, Garcia, those are nice pieces and you can, you know, especially if Garcia is going to be the best reliever in baseball, yeah, you can get, you can get a pretty pick or a pretty package for those guys, but if you're moving a Boba shed, that is a trade that allows you to kind of recoup and reset yourself. That's the other part of it is that you cannot, you're not going to have a ton of chances to kind of restock the cupboards in this little, this window right now. This is why you have to look at trading those guys as well is that yes, if you're going to do it with cocochi and Garcia, you might as well go all in because it's not going to be a quick fix. And you should read now, that's not to say you have to trade those guys definitively this year, but you have to have to look at it and you have to be open to it. I think sometimes you'll hear of like, ah, teams are shopping players, but they're not really open to it. And if you read fine sands report, that's not that the J's are shopping those guys, but that's kind of where they're at right now with just the astronomical prices that they're asking for there. But yeah, that's, that's kind of my read on it. And you have to shop them, especially if you get more consensus to what the NL executive is saying, that other teams might view Vlad and Bo as changes scenery guys. And then next sentence, everybody knows what these guys can do. Okay. Well, in in Boboshette's case, like guy is routinely got an OPS over 800, he's capable of playing the most premium defensive position at at least an average level for Vladimir Guerrero, Jr's situation, like everyone knows what these guys can do. Like do they? Okay. Is there still a league wide perception that this guy has 2021 second in the American League MVP voting best offensive player in the American League in him? And if he does, and if that like your, your, your ask is astronomical at the outset because you're under no duress to trade those guys. But if like you're closer to, to consummating something with your astronomical ask, and there is still a league wide perception that those guys are the things that they've shown at times in Boboshette's case more often than Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. Like that, that could be transformative as far as reopening a window for your team in the next half decade. Well, we can sit here and say like, Oh, who are these guys? So, you know, what, what baseball are they watching that they still think he, I think if you're an exec and not that they haven't had the access to this stuff, but they see the barrel rate, they see the exit Vilo and, you know, hubris is a hell of a drug. I imagine there are a lot of teams going, Oh, come on. Look how hard he hits it. There's no way we can't get them with our khakis and kind of turn that around. So as much as, because I have been floored quite honestly in the time that I've been doing this job and just talking to people surrounding the team and, you know, I'm not telling secrets out of school. These are all on air conversations, but Jose Bautista saying, what are you talking about? Of course, this is Vladis team. There's no question about it. And I always thought, okay, that was a, you know, a blue Jay's lens or not even a blue Jay's, but like people around the team view it that way. But if he is still viewed across the sport, it would be borderline malpractice, not to at least look at that. The other part of it as well is that even if you're the biggest believer in the world, let's say you and this, you know, exec you're talking trade with or both going, oh, I can't believe it. The exit below the barrel rate is his swing speed. You should love all of this. Even if you're the biggest believer in the world in that, what are you going to pay him if you do want to keep him around beyond the two years or the year and a half a team control he has? So the more I think about it with Vlad, especially if he's viewed that way, I wouldn't go as far maybe just to say you have to pounce now or you have to strike while the iron's hot. But man, if somebody's going to view him as 2021, Vlad, I think you kind of have to. And now for nothing, your fan base is going to love the idea of trading for Vladimir Guru Jr. I hear you sell something. Oh, whoever, like, sorry, I thought, yes, I agree. Yes. I thought the blue dress. If you're the, I mean, this is hard to imagine, hard to imagine a team like the Pittsburgh Pirates trading for a guy that's going to be a free agent in here, but like say the Pittsburgh Pirates traded for the son of the Hall of Famer, Vladimir Guerrero, and they got Vladimir Guerrero Jr. I got puts, butts in the seats for sure that that energizes a fan base that's looking to be energized. Paul Skeens, Vladimir Guru Jr. Now you got a team. O'Neill Cruz hitting the ball every time 120 miles an hour. Yeah. See that, by the way, last night. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's 120. It's fast. I said, when those go in an upward trajectory, not to the core of the earth, I said a million times. I'm so happy that O'Neill Cruz and Ellie Delacruz exist in the Stack S area. There's no way I would have appreciated this even 10 years ago. Yeah. But if that perception exists among other executives, and if it is at all a factor that you're going to create excitement around your franchise that might not have previously otherwise existed in trading for Vladimir Guru Jr. and Boboshette, and that impact to the price. And you continue to like not just be bad, but be like stink out loud bad, getting too hit and getting shut out by the worst team in baseball and 10 and 15 games under 500 as we approach July. This is not a, it's not going to be acceptable, honestly, to be only shopping. Your Jimmy Garcia is your Justin Turner who ended in over 30 slump and looks like a guy in his late 30s as like one of the slowest bats in all the baseball, according to the new swing speed data. The you say kukuchi's who can fetch you a pretty penny, but he's a pending free agent. Like it's not going to be acceptable to only shop those guys. You're going to have to make a decision. And maybe that comes in the off season, but the likelihood of getting your price at the deadline where the acquiring team has at least two postseason opportunities with those guys. It feels like, yeah, the more this, like not the like middling 500 team, but like the more getting shut out by the white Sox that we see, the more likely that becomes a possibility. Where are you at on the idea of it being harder, maybe to trade Vlad in season because it's like we've just talked about where he ranks kind of leewide and again, the lack of a track record since if you're a believer, like if you're that an l exec and it's like a there, you're still buying the brand name, you think it's in there, I think you would not say that you wouldn't want the extra playoff push because obviously you're a believer in the player. But if you're a team that is competing, it feels good. You probably have a half decent first baseman. I would think you'd be more want to make that move in the off season if you're a team acquiring Vlad as opposed to Bo, I, but if you're the J is also going to ask more for both than I am Vlad. Where were you at on the idea of one of them more likely to move than the other? No, I don't see the difference. Like I don't, I don't see why one guy is more likely to move in the off season as opposed to in season. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't gone down. I just look up that's it. Potentially. Right. Teams. This is a universal DH. So everybody's got an opportunity to either blame a DH, blame it for space. And yeah, I think if you need another bad, like if you're bad away and you think Vladimir Guerrero Jr is it, like I think you're paying the price for him. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, Boba Shett's fit is at a more difficult position to backfill with with shortstop. Yeah. I think getting a couple of post seasons out of both of those guys is going to, if in fact they're on the market, raise the price. Well, as John Marosi though, after seven thirty, I want to do our conference championship pressure index ranking. So we're into the conference championships in the NBA as game one between the Celtics and Pacers was maybe surprisingly a barn burner and boy, like maybe the selta or maybe the Pacers bounce back from that and it's all well and good and not we proved that we can hang with this team and that was actually like the outlier game of the series that we're going to take control. But boy, it felt like they had one on their stick and they let it slip away because they did and Jalen Brown hitting a three at the end of regulation with five seconds left to tie the game and allowing them to win an overtime after the Pacers have the ball of three with under 20 seconds to go and turn it over. That's bad. But let's start in the Stanley Cup playoffs because we haven't seen a game yet. We're going to see game one of the Eastern Conference final tonight between the Rangers and Panthers. All right. Pressure index rankings like who has the most pressure on them? I think we can all agree, right? I think so, but they're also an underdog in their series. So can you have pressure if you're an underdog? I think you can. Okay. So then I let's just say at one, two, three. Yeah, no, there's when you have the best player in the sport and another guy who's won a hurt trophy when that guy was hurt and you have a power play clicking along at like 40% in the postseason. I don't care that you got Stuart Skinner in his eight 70s save percentage and I don't care that you're an underdog against a star's team that by the way is like in the history of North American pro sports, is anyone going to have to run a postseason gauntlet? Like the Dallas stars are going to have to win a Stanley Cup this season? No, I get it. It's the playoffs. Like all the good teams are there. The Rangers did get to play the capitals, right? I remember. I actually feel like I've probably screamed it from the rooftops a million times, honestly. Yeah, the Oilers played the Kings. Oh my God. And the Bruins played the Leafs. That's just mean. Anyways, but yeah, go on Golden Knights Avalanche Oilers. Yeah. And then, yeah, it's not like a final. You're going to get a good team and either the Panthers or the Rangers is not so not so. But no, when you have the best player in the sport currently, and I don't think there's much debate about that and a guy when it's all said and done, like seems pretty clear is going to be top five in the history of the sport. And the ends of their contracts, like he and his running mate are getting closer to the end. Well, and it's not just that the contract that is ending for dry side, at least on the same timeline as Marner, it's that that is, you know, we can quibble about if you want kale McCars more, but it's like value wise, that is one or one a best value contract in the league. And he's going to get, you know, sometimes we do this, like we can sit here and quibble about Marner and, you know, how much if he's do a raise, it's like, if he's do a raise, it's like a million, a half a million, whatever Leon dry side is going to get a whole middle six player or a whole second pair of defenseman worth a raise. He's at eight and a half now he's going to 12, 12 and a half eat a peterson is a 12 six. What is dry side will go to? So, and I mean, I know a little, but that's RFA, but still I, I, I, you have to take advantage of, not just McDavid, peak of his powers, because all these guys always get theirs, but you have to take advantage of the best contract value in the sport as well. Honestly, the, the bottom three are all debatable, and I think like, I have three, I, I had an order set and then I was looking at it and I rearranged it three times. Yeah, I, I go stars too, because, because, you know, this is their second straight trip to the conference final and they do look like, if you just on balance, you watch the teams, you're like, who looks the best? Yeah. And part of it is the opposition that they face, but it's, it's that team who has the best goal tender, like maybe it's the Rangers. Yeah, possibly, but it's, I think, I think I, I bank on the stars. Yep. Yeah. So to me, they're number two. Yeah. The other, the other thing about Dallas is they have all of the old guys too, like we think of it as a younger team with like, Wyatt Johnson and Stan Coven and Rupe Hintz and, you know, Heiskin and those guys kind of come. They also are trying to take advantage of the tail ends of Povelsky, Sagan, Ben, again, it's like my favorite piece of the playoffs every year. They have all the old guys without a cup on, on that team. So that's the other reason why I think pressure goes up. I then think I go Panthers because of the, they were there last year, the Sam Reinhardt of it all. It's like all that stuff. And then Rangers, but I could easily be talked into the team that won the president's trophy should probably feel some pressure. Yeah. And plays in the biggest market. I think what we come down to, I think you agree with this, it's like, yeah, yeah, there's pressure on everybody when you get to this point, especially teams with the guys that are free agents and, you know, maybe the window closing, but nobody like the Oilers each in every year that they don't win a Stanley Cup with Conor McDavid. You have the best player and you play in Edmonton. No offense to Edmonton. Yeah. But you play in Edmonton and you have the best player. And like two of the top five in the sport. And you don't want to Stanley Cup. It's an abject failure. I don't care what the rest of your roster looks like. And I don't care. Again, what Stuart Skinner, his say percentage looks like in the postseason, it's the Oilers and everybody else. I wouldn't, I wouldn't go as far as say abject failure because the Stanley Cup is the most random of all the trophies. But if Conor McDavid doesn't end up with one in his entire, like, I don't think it's a failure if they don't get one this year. But if in this era, they don't failure, failure, failure, failure. Yeah. Like each and every year that it goes along without one, the likelihood goes up that he's not going to get one. Yeah. All right. It's talking about the NBA. To me, I think it's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's 100% the same. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah. Quadrillion percent. Actually, it's unfair to say that the Wolves, Mavs, or Pacers feel any pressure actually at this point. Yeah. I mean, I think it's slightly different with the Mavs, right? Because you got Luca Donge. Yeah. Guy Rees keeping it in the lines right now. Yeah. You know that that's a powder keg about to explode. But this is a Celtics team with a guy that I think is still one of the, like he's right on the verge of superstardom and Jason Tatum, but, and they've had some postseason success. But like you think about them in the postseason as being failures, like they made it to a finals. To a Heat team going down 3-0 in the conference finals, the season ago after the Heat were a play-in tournament team. No, this is a team that you get another postseason flame at and boy, the conversations today if they'd lost. Game one to the Pacers yesterday would have been electric factory. And like you want to compare like the Dow stars of the toughest run to the championship in all the North American pro sports with the Celtics have had to do or haven't had to do. I was going to say careful to get to an NBA finals is, is outrageous like it's them and everybody else. Yeah. And even you have to take it. You have to take into account what the path is going to look like at all the years surrounding this one. Like the idea that Janis is just in the box just a non factor this year in the east that until until somebody else and hey, maybe, maybe Halliburton and the Pacers are doing that. I don't know that they are until somebody else bucks their head up in the, in the east. That's going to always be the team that they kind of have to go through. So to not have to do that this year, you have to have to have to take advantage. And then, I mean, obviously they're doing this in a conference finals. So it's, you know, a little bit different, but you don't want to become leafy where you just kind of bang your head against the wall young players and again, like when we all killed, we banging our head against the wall in a conference final. But you know, their questions are going to start swirling about Tatum and Brown and you know, how do they all kind of fit in together there? Yeah. It's, it is easily they feel the most pressure. Yeah. And two, I do think is the matter. I like kind of it's, it's like there is a, a Conor McDavid comparison, not that, you know, Luca is going to be viewed as the best player in the sport, but like he's right now in MVP candidate year over year and each and every year that goes by without him winning a championship and like, obviously, like he compared it to a Joel Embiid who's never made a conference championship. But he's had more success than him, but like, yeah, that level of player having a championship or not having a championship raises the stakes. Yeah, the Kyrie of it all, we're a second away from the news story that removes him from that team. Well, it's also so funny the way this works, right? Because if Anthony Edwards goes and wins the title, he's, he's there. But it's like, if he loses, then Luca Donch, it's just a champion and it's like, well, you lost to a champion. So how do you, how do you feel about that? Yeah, I could, I could be talked into the wolves that this is like ants moment. And he not that, not that he's not going to be viewed as great after this playoffs one way or another, but this is the chance to kind of truly go from the front, not, not that he's a fringe best player in the league, like he is very much right in that conversation. But again, like we talked about the path that's available to him. It's like, I don't, you know, the thunder, they're not going anywhere in the West. It's going to continue to be difficult. I could be talked into the wolves being. Yeah. The towns is healthy. Yeah. Right? Like that's, that's big different. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's, so yeah, I, I think we're in locks up there. Altix, Mavs, wolves, and then the Pacers say congrats. You're here. Found money. Yeah, I know. They paid it for Siacom. And yeah, he's depending. He's not going anywhere. Like, you don't make that trade, obviously, without the idea that you're going to sign him to a long-term extension. All right. When we come back. Yeah. That was very fun. Thanks, man. I mean, the Celtics would have been like what's higher than one if they had lost yesterday to the Pacers. Oh, God. Yeah. Negative one. Wouldn't have been great. We'll get back into the Mark Finds and report that Bo and Vlad might very well be on the market this season with John Morosi of MLB Networks. The fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Unrivaled insight, analysis, and opinions on all things Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Man morning, shows, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, baseball season, yeah, it's postseason in both Stanley Cup playoffs and the NBA. And you, simple hockey fan, a year focused on the remaining four teams in the NHL. You're basic. Yeah. You know, like our next guest who tweeted 267 days until the NHL four nations face off, not too early to be excited. I, I didn't, I honestly now on my radar. Well done by John Morosi of MLB Network and NHL Network who joins us now. How's it going, John? You're great guys. So you haven't been counting down the days yourselves yet that this is not yet on your radar. I know you've had some news there. I know you've had some cultural beliefs, but certainly on our radar here in the States should be, should be a lot of fun coming up. I'm outing Ben now. He was just complaining about international hockey to me in the breaks like, Oh, the world championships. Oh, who cares? Who cares about the world's? So yeah, no, shocker, bad patriot Ben Anis was not excited to see Canada come back from blowing a six, nothing third period lead to Austria and John Tavares scoring the overtime winner. But yeah, no, listen, the four nations cop. That'll be, that'll be fun because we'll get to see Austin Matthews wearing a team USA uniform for the first time ever. The only time we saw him in a World Cup was when he was playing for that young guns team. I am slightly nervous to see this generation of American hockey. It looks like they're quite good. They are. And I was thinking about this. If you just take back of the envelope, sketch out what what team USA's defensive court court is going to look like. Let's say that the second group, so the guys that don't make the team will be better than most decores the U.S. have brought to best, best, best tournaments. Just think about it. I mean, start sketching out all the names. You can fill it out with behalf, the Rangers decore you'd probably say is either on it or should be on it. Fox, Truba, Keanu Drey Miller, maybe Lindgren's in that conversation, that's just one team. And then obviously you've got Quinn Hughes, maybe Luke Hughes, we just go down the list. It's going to be some tough decisions for the U.S. brain trust. That's why they're already over there. Bill Guerin, Mike Sullivan are watching those games right now. So it should be pretty good when Luke Hughes and Jake Sanderson are your second pairing, which is what the case is right now for the U.S. You've got a pretty good hockey team. Yeah, that'll be depressing if they're that good in the in these parts. Yeah, we didn't even talk about having all the goalies as well. You guys also have that Jordan Bennington got the victory in that game in which he blew a six nothing third period lead score. Yeah, those oinks. Anyways, let's talk about the other depressing thing in these parts, which is the Toronto Blue Jays. It's not gone well here, John, like it's there's like not going well. And then there's like being the second worst offense as far as runs are scored in majorly baseball only ahead of the Chicago White Sox. And then only managing two hits against that White Sox team in a five nothing loss yesterday. Like how real is this offensive start for the Blue Jays? Because it's still it's May, it's like late May, we're almost in June here. Well, I'll tell you this. I was thinking about this. Should I be optimistic, morocie or realistic morocie with with this answer because because when I when I look at the numbers, I found something last night that I had to check and double check and really reflect on. Think about this. The Jays do not have a home run from the cleanup spot this season. That's not zero. That's almost the end of May, all all cleanup hitters for basically a third of the season have combined for zero home runs for the Toronto Blue Jays. The next low with everybody else in baseball has at least three and the Jays have zero. That that almost doesn't make sense and yet it's where we are and by the way, that is that just one player. They've tried multiple guys in that role and they've all accumulated zero. So it's the the struggles and the the concerns are real. I don't even think last night necessarily is is approximate cause of it. They faced a really good picture last night in crochet. I think today, honestly, is the bigger challenge and the and a game that they have to win in terms of the big picture of the season. You cannot lose the series at home against the White Sox. Mike was an acceptable defeat because of what you were facing on the mound. You've got Nick Nastreany on the mound today. You've got to find a way to beat him and beat the White Sox and win the series. It's a lineup that to me guys is there are fixes to make and I know we'll probably get into the Ross Atkins media availability and what what to do with bow and flat, etcetera. But there are there are some roster spots on this team right now that that are not giving you enough and especially not giving you enough because the main guys aren't giving you enough. And so I know Ross alluded over the weekend to the possibility of some additions from the minor leagues. But whether it's Horowitz, whether it's Lucas, whether it's Barger, there are some lefty bats in the minor leagues that I think would give you more than what you're getting from roster spots at the moment. And those are the moves that I would say they should focus on much more now as opposed to any of the larger questions about Bow's future, Vlad's future, they just got to make some adjustments right now to I think just lean into the reality of where they're at offensively. Yeah. I mean, the guy you mentioned Atkins and his avail over the weekend. I mean, the guy everyone as much as everyone's been clamoring for, I guess it would would be a Ralphus Martinez just because of the power there. But I think this is part of the problem with the team having an identity they've kind of gone all in on in terms of being the pitching and defense team. And I just think they've, that's the biggest reason. I mean, obviously the, I think it's 11 errors he's committed now are the biggest thing that's holding them back, but I just think it's also kind of counterintuitive to what they want this group to be. I mean, obviously they'd love to be the pitching and defense team that also rakes, but I don't think that's going to happen. How much of it do you think is there just a little bit kind of stuck where, where they're at philosophically here, because you know, you can get a couple bats in here, but it's not going to turn into, you know, the 15, 16 J's all of a sudden, but you're right. And, and I think that one thing I was talking to one executive in the game in the last couple of weeks and, and, and the statement I got was that this team is, is easy among major league teams, easy to game plan for and easy to pitch to. And that is, that is a hard thing to hear. I think if, if you're a J's fan, that, that it's a lineup that the overall construction of it doesn't, just doesn't work, doesn't, doesn't make other teams fearful of throwing the ball in the zone. And there's not, there's not better enough damage. I think there are, there are not enough tough takes, guys that are working deep at bats, just not, you're not seeing that from this group. And you're right. It's just not in the DNA of this particular group to do it. And it, it would be asking a lot of a Horowitz or a Martinez or a Lucas or a barter to come up and change that, that, that ethic of the team. It's asking a lot for young players to come up and do it. And yet, if they don't, just take a look at the, the American League right now. And, and you start looking at the, the number of teams they're behind right now for a wild card spot. You know, I've seen a fair amount of Baltimore this year. I've seen a fair amount of, of New York this year. They're just better. They're, they're better teams. And what, when you are where the J's are in the standings, you start looking at the math and, and, and the climb up, I have a hard time seeing a, a universe in which the J's pass either the Yankees or, or Baltimore, they're both those teams, especially New York, they're going to get better once Garrett Cole comes back that the J's are all these games behind the Yankees and Garrett Cole has even thrown a pitch this year. So, it's, it's a, it is a fairly concerning situation with the offense. And, and yet, I'm not sure that it's imminent that they're going to have a dramatic course correction and become sellers, for example, because of how leveraged they are to Vlad, to both all the renovations of the stadium, which have been amazing, by the way. It just seems early to me to make, to make a big change, which I think is why we heard the more, the more patient approach that, that Ross expressed on Saturday, there's just not a good option that exists for them to do anything but that, or anything but make some fairly minor changes by promoting some of the guys I mentioned from the minor leagues, that this is not really a moment that seems to me to make fundamental adjustments to who the J's are offensively. Baby steps though, right? Like maybe hit a home run out of the cleanup spot, like the one spot in your lineup where you're supposed to have your, your biggest slugger. Never should have moved in. That's a problem. I mean, I need to go back and look, you know, who the last team was that went this deep into the year without a home from the cleanup spot. I mean, it's, that is hard to do my friends and hard to do. No, I thought I was doing a good job digging up that the, the blue J's have been too hit or fewer in eight and a half percent of their games this season, but now that's, that's the new leader in the club. I was like, I got to say, John, the blue J's not having a single home run out of the clean up spot. By the way, Boston Red Sox lead all a baseball with 13 such home runs out of the cleanup spot. That's ridiculous. So okay. You talked about the potential sell off here. There are pending free agents that would have value. And if you're not going to re-sign, you say Kikuchi or, or Jimmy Garcia, maybe there's a return on those fellas. But yeah, we're headed into the final year next season of team control with Bobishette and Vladimir Guerrero, Jr., MLB.com's Mark Feyns and has unnamed executives, one out of the American League saying, yeah, they've gauged interest before in the ass or obviously very high on, on those guys. I understand like the, the, you, you're right to talk about the renovations and the idea of, of a full tear down, maybe being unlikely, but I don't know how much worse can it get than what we're watching right now with those guys, like what would it take for an in-season trade of either or Vladimir Guerrero, Jr., or Bobishette? No, it's a, it's a really good question and I think we have to say at this juncture that both scenarios are possible, that it is possible that either Bo or Vlad or even both could potentially be playing somewhere else in the early days of August. Now it depends, certainly the larger question how, how the team play between now and then. But when you look at it, the, the, the last time that Jay's sold was five years ago and, and that was when they moved Strowman and Strowman at that time did have a year and a half of control. He was not yet in his final year of, of team control. So they, they did move and at the time Marcus was something of a foundational player to them. I realized there was some friction for an office to him, but in general he was a, a really good guy on a, on a pretty competitive team previous to that. So there's, there's some similarities in the narrative and they traded him for two guys. Now with Donaldson, as you remember, they waited too long. So in, in the Donaldson scenario because of injuries, performance, et cetera, we were having the conversation about Donaldson around this time, but they waited until it was his last year and they got one player, Julian and Mary Wether in the deal for Donaldson. They waited too long. It's, it's also possible that, that when you consider how both Vlad and Bo have played, that they've already waited too long to move both of them because you look at Vlad's numbers. Since the start of last year, he ranks 17th among first baseman and, and wins above replacement. 17th behind Ryan O'Hearn, Spencer Steer, Connor Joe, guys that would not cost you two and three really good prospects to get. So his, the production for him is not lined up with his name since really the start of last year when you look at the, the big picture and Bo, I think it's maybe not quite as extreme. He's 13th among shortstop's, but it's, it's similar. So I, I do think it's possible, but to me, the, the J's would have to sell them both at what their production suggests they should sell them, which is that they are again 13th for Bo among shortstop's in last year. Vlad is 17th average, mostly average players is what they are. And I, I just don't see how the J's can necessarily do that at the moment unless their production picks up. And there also aren't that many teams for whom Vlad, for example, would be a meaningful upgrade at first base. Houston, you would say you've got to braid down in the minor leagues, maybe Minnesota, but there's not that many teams that I see being really good fit there. I, I do believe you mentioned Kakuchi, whether it's Kakuchi, whether it's Danny Jansen, who I think they would love to sign. They both have more immediate value right now, same with Jimmy Garcia. Then Bo and Vlad, dude, just in terms of price to move, playing well. They have assets to trade. No doubt about it. I, I'm just not convinced that their best assets are named Vishet and Guerrero. It's interesting, you know, the, the other part of this is like what, what, what do you sell the, the fans on? What is, what is your calling card going forward to 2025? Because if, if this continues to go this way, and I imagine Boba Shed is going to rebound to, to, to a closer level to what he's been throughout the entirety of his major league career. He has the track record of getting off to slow starts and then going absolutely nuts the second half of the season. He did that in 2022, where he was hitting seventh in July and ends up with the most hits in the American League at the end of that year. Right. I remember that. Yeah. I don't, honestly, I don't know how dissimilar the end of season numbers are going to look like for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. who's now hitting in the two seventies, he's got a good on base and like the only has four home runs, but that's the, I think that's more a part of his offensive arsenal. You're like, it was one thing to sell us on this core and, and banking on this core to provide enough offense this season. When they did factually win 89 games last year, and there were numbers to suggest the offense wasn't as bad as it was perceived to be. You can't run through 162 games of this and do the same thing again. So it's one thing to, to not get the value you want, but like how do you build the team in 2025 with the still, like the cornerstones of your offense still being bow and glad where we have like this extremely mounting evidence that, that that ain't it. You're right. And that's exactly it. And it's an excellent point, Ben, when you look at what the future looks like for this team, because it's, there's two, there are two competing ways to look at this. One of the business side, one of the baseball side, the stadium renovation, the need to fill the seats and have superstars in the lineup, those are all real. Those are all very real parts of running a baseball team and that fans do feel connected to Vlad and Bow, they saw them grow up in the organization. So it's, it's difficult to move on from them in that, from that standpoint. But on the other side, again, I've seen a lot of Baltimore this year, they're not going anywhere. They're in, in fact, people believe they're only going to get better once more of their top end young players arrive to the big leagues. Their Baltimore is a better team in 2025 than Toronto will be in 2025 period. Just look at, look at the roster, look at how young they are, the Jay's have the oldest group of position players in the American League. When you are an old group, and you're at the bottom of the standings with free agents who are coming do in the next couple of years, that, that is a classic case for you to have to make some tough decisions, maybe not a full rebuild, but you need to, to retool and get a little bit younger, more athletic, the bats sure look similar night to night with this team. And listen, Jay's fans know what they're seeing, I mean, you hear from them all the time, sort of why. I mean, they, they know what they're looking at, it's, it's not, it's not good enough. And unless there's a fairly profound course correction to where Bow normalizes really quickly and, and, and the lineup bounces back fairly quickly to be able to compete for at least a wild card spot, I, I just don't see a path for this group. And, and again, I, I mentioned that the, the Donaldson trade, we had a very similar conversation on this network around 20, 17, 20, 18 coming out of the, the back to back ALCS appearances where it just wasn't happening, and it took the Jay's a long time to, to, to get there to finally move Donald to the end that they waited too long. And, and what saved them to an extent in terms of what at least brought on this, the cycle of competitiveness was that Vlad and Bow and Vigio were on their way and they made some smart signings of, of pitchers. Guess what? Right now, look at the Buffalo roster and, and the double A roster to an extent, there's not a Vlad and Bow cycle coming up right now. They're, they're, they're not that they're more of a bottom half of the majors farm system right now. And some of that due to the injury, some of that due to just the personnel they've got, that's, that's the tricky part with what, what saved them in, in, in terms of being competitive again in 2021 with largely the homegrown talent, signing semi and helped. It was not that they did well with the Donaldson trade, and I, and I just fear that they're doing that they're on the same course to whenever they move on from Vlad and Bow, the return is going to look a lot more like the return for Strowman and, and Donaldson than it was something that was actually going to change the franchise. Yeah. I mean, the best case scenario is that this, the, we've, how many conversations have you had John in May about baseball teams that seem so silly by the end of the season and, and maybe that's the case with this team, but man, there's mounting evidence that the, that the Blue Jays kind of are what we thought they might be, and even more so after a five, nothing lost to the White Sox yesterday. John, great to hear from you. Thanks as always, buddy. My pleasure, guys. And the number one thing is got to win a series against the White Sox. Yeah. We're the series against the White Sox. Put that one brick in the foundation and then we, and we built there. And by the way, I'll be able to see them this weekend in Detroit. So I'll, I'll check in. Yeah. I'll try to take good care of the J's here in Detroit and we'll, we'll, we'll revisit next week. Hey, hello to a bunch of Blue Jays fans who always make the pilgrimage to a great ballpark in, in Comerra. See you, John. Thank you. All about that. Thank you. John Marosi, MLB network. Yeah. Rome wasn't built in the day. Okay. Like, that's, that's my understanding. I was in there. The journey of a thousand milestones with the single step. Look at you. One home run out of the game. That would be, that'd just do that. Like do it one time and then do it like a bunch more times because that's the thing that's supposed to happen out of that spot more than any other line up and you have that well done. Man, I thought I'd seen all of the disgusting stats from this Blue Jays offense. That's a pretty impressive one that there's also such a wide swath of people that could take in just how abhorrent that is also, right? Like sometimes we get bogged into like chase rates and it's like, you know, the Homer spot? You know that doesn't change. You know the guy who has like a big jaw in his mouth usually and if he could, he'd play and like cut off sleeves? Yeah. Yeah, that guy. No homers. None. None. No, that, so listen, the best offensive player now hits second and like you want your best overall. Like the cleanup spot, still the clean spot, like that hasn't changed, was the SWAT something over. Yeah. No, he's got a clean statue. He's getting clean sheeted, zero home runs out of the claims by big FIFA energy. Before we get to the Waken rake, John with a great point about the Marcus Drummond trade and Josh Donaldson trade and waiting too long and yes, they waited too long when it was easy to sell, right? Like that wasn't their team. That's true. They told you like on the out of the gates that if they hadn't had the success they had in 15 and if there hadn't been this resurgence of Blue Jays fandom, they might have sold before if they even got to the most season in 2016 and they tried to sort of kind of run it back in 17. It took until 2019 for them to be like, come on, like what are we doing here? Yeah, this guy's out here. This is their team. Yeah. Oh my God. You thought it was hard for them to sell Alex and Thopolis's team. The guy who in his first meeting with Mark Shapiro or so were told was like, talk down to about his trading away of God, I keep forgetting the left handed starters name that they sent to Detroit for David Price who lived in a van. Daniel Norris. Daniel Norris. Sorry Daniel. Like you thought that was a hard thing to do to trade away that team. I know. No, this this team, the one that they built is going to be near impossible. While I do think it's the correct course of action, it's yeah, it's it's hard to imagine them pulling the plug, especially combined with the public comments we heard from Ross Adkins. Wholeheartedly agree. All right. Time now for the wake and write presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. The Stanley Cup playoffs Eastern Conference final getting underway tonight eight o'clock on sports net and CBC at MSG, the Mecca as the president's trophy champion Rangers host the defending Eastern Conference champion Florida Panthers, what a matchup. It has the Panthers despite being on the road, the slight favorites, both minus money, Panthers minus 115 Rangers minus 105, the total five and a half year, Brent, a five and a half, low number. I still think you got to go under these teams going to be shadow boxing, filling each other out a little bit to start off the series. So yeah, you got a minus 115, but give me the under a five and a half in that one. I like that Stanley Cup outright winners with only four teams remaining Panthers are actually the favorite, which does surprise me slightly too, plus two 30 stars second favorite plus two 40 Oilers plus two 80 Rangers plus three 50. I mean, if I'm just going on value, isn't the team with the most points during the regular season that at times has looked like the best team of the postseason? I know the path has been easier, but like, how do you not like the Rangers at plus three 50? They also might have the best goal they've left in the playoffs too. Yeah, it's like the stars, it's like, okay, plus two 40. That's the team I feel best about. They're not the outright favorites, but from a value perspective, yeah, Rangers plus three 50 is the play for sure. That was the wake and rake presented by sports interaction. Your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, our Leafs historian, Damon Cox, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, sports said five night at the fan.
