[MUSIC] >> Man, morning Joe Sportsman 5.9 is a bad mess. >> Fred got a yeah, tip or cap. >> Have you actually ever tipped your cap to end up on before? >> No, I have not a Phil Mickelson guy. That's still what I think of is just the, they are like, memories burned into my brain of him walking up fairways at Augusta, just alternating, thumbs up, hat tip, thumbs up, hat tip. Thumbs up, hat tip. And because of that, never, never, ever. >> I would doff it, a full doffing is way different. >> Yeah, I can't, I consider that a tipping of the cap. Like I have done in Jess walking down the 18th hole, like in a tide match with my dad. And I hit a great shot like taking my hat off and waving it to the crowd. >> Love that, that's great. >> Like in Jess, of course. >> That's insane, but John Schneider just said. So that's the worst team in baseball. >> Yeah, but I mean, hey, you gotta just reach your hand up. You gotta put your hand on that bill and tip the cap. >> Yeah, why don't you let us know when you're not tipping the cap? Because that's gonna be, there's gonna be fewer opportunities where you're not tipping the cap. But I get it, Garrett Crochet was throwing 100. >> Mm-hm. >> You know what else throws up or 90s from the left side? >> I think I know where you're- >> Yeah, no, you say kakuchi. And like, the White Sox didn't tee off on him, but they did enough. >> Mm-hm. >> They scored five runs. I mean, one of them thanks to an Ernie Clement error who, like all of a sudden Ernie Clement is a guy that commits errors on routine ground balls when his number one calling card is supposed to be the defense. Anyways, that's secondary to the point. >> It's taking a dive to get a Ralphus Martinez up here, he keeps doing that. >> Maybe, that's secondary to the point. The point, here's the point. The Blue Jays against the worst team in Major League Baseball. >> Mm-hm. >> Scoring only more runs this season than that team. >> Yeah. >> For the fourth time this season, managed two or fewer hits, it's May, four times. I mean, they have been no hit this season, right? >> Yeah. >> Four times. It's 8.5% of the games that the Blue Jays have played. They haven't gotten three hits. They've finished the game and it's like, well, you get to, off on our cap. >> [LAUGH] >> Two hits for the Blue Jays. Again, that Garrett Crochet throwing hard and maybe, you know, down the line, Garrett Crochet, we're gonna be like, well, that was, do you remember Garrett Crochet, when he's breaking into the rotation for the White Sox? And then he went on to have a Hall of Fame career, even so. >> Okay, so. >> There are, there's not, there's nobody throwing underhand in any of these games, right? Like, it is the major leagues of baseball. John Schneider has that correct. >> Yes. >> This team cannot hit. Like, it seems pretty apparent at this point, the idea that you've got to doff your cap. I want John Schneider, it's pretty amazing to me that John Schneider didn't already realize that this was like a trigger phrase within the Blue Jays fan community. >> Right. >> But he, somebody needs to bring it to his attention that just like the Maple Leafs can't talk about being close. Cuz that's insane. Cuz you're close to winning around. >> Yeah. >> The Blue Jays and John Schneider cannot ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever again. This season, say we doft our cap, we tipped our cap, we got to tip our cap to the opposing pitcher. That's over and done with. It's the Major League's a baseball man. You got it. You got hit the ball. I'm sorry. There's just, there's no, there's, there's just nobody throwing 75 like lobbing it up there. And even against those guys, you haven't been able to hit that. That's insane. >> Yeah, it's nuts. It is full-blown nuts. The White Sox and Crochet was good. Like, I'm not, you're painting your scenario and like, okay, let's pump the brakes on Cooperstown. But yeah, I think Crochet is gonna have a nice career as a guy from, he's fine. >> Sure, it's fine. >> No, it doesn't matter. The point I'm making is it doesn't matter if the ghost of Satchel Paige comes out. You don't wanna talk about tipping your hat to that guy. We're done with that. And the idea that you would use it in this series, if you take care of your business in this stretch of games with, you know, they're in town and then this run ends up against the pirates. I think in the four, the four series they have that are very gettable ahead of them. If you took care of your business there, then maybe, maybe, maybe afterwards, you get mowed down, by a legit stud in this league, then maybe we could have heard, well, you got to tip your cap. But against that team, getting booed off the field, you've been, like you said, eight and a half. >> You're nicer than the Sportsnet broadcast in Looking Act, because they just put the full 9% up there of their games this year. >> Yeah, well, I tweeted it. So I think they got it from me, because I emailed Sportsnet stats. >> Okay, so you got it from them? >> Yeah. >> So just to clarify, it did originate with Sportsnet. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I asked them, but yeah, no. So I was like, >> You got a future as a manager here. You love to crack the whip on Sportsnet stats. I'm always afraid. I'm like, who am I? >> No, no, no, no, I mean, I'm the host of the morning show. I should ask the question. >> I hate the people that answer emails about the stats. And yeah, they gave me the number four and I ran the numbers. What percentage of 47 games is four, and it's eight and a half percent. But yeah, you round that up to nine. >> Done that because hope for that one. >> Yeah, you're right. I kind of softened it this morning, calling it eight and a half. It's you round up. It's nine. >> Of course you did. >> Nine percent of their games. >> Nine percent. That's almost 10. That is insane. It's funny the things that are aggressive about this, because I did want to get to watching Celtics and Pacers last night. But I always like to, especially when it's a particular, particularly frustrating game, I always like to hear the post games to everybody else to say. And you, I knew you and everybody else rightfully so was going to latch on and be mad at the, well, you got to tip your cap. As soon as I heard it, I visibly winced on my couch. The one that bothers me, and it goes back to the thing I've always said of like, and I guess it's just like the guy's personality, the character, it's like, it's kind of, and don't take this as me clutching my pearls. I got no problem with somebody swearing, but it's like, it's always God is the move of being like the relatable dude will throw in a curse word or say he'll have a beer. That was the thing that drove me nuts. I mean, obviously, after watching three hours or two hours or whatever it was of, of listless, listless Blue Jays offense, you had your few moments, you had your spots and even the guys that have been performing ish as of late, couldn't come through just a brutal, brutal night. You got booed at home against worst team and baseball. There's there, there's not that I would attempt to, but there's no way to sugarcoat this even if you wanted to. Yeah. And maybe they win today and they win the series and as much as you want to sweep series, a series victory is, is it is very acceptable. This is, we're now through two games of this 13 game stretch against the White Sox for three Tigers for four White Sox for three and pirates for three. So that's 13 games in there. If you don't go eight and five in that stretch, like eight and five is the bare minimum. Like nine and four is good. Nine and four, you're like, wow, okay, you're back to five hundred nine and four is good. If you don't go eight and five and it's June, right? Because at that point, it's June. Yep. You don't go eight and five. God forbid you're 500 or worse against the worst team in baseball twice, a Tigers team that stanks and a Pirates team that's under 500. All these teams are right in and around you as far as offensive production is concerned. If you don't go eight and five in this 13 game stretch, like the whole idea of even Ross Atkins acknowledged that, hey, it's early, but like at a certain point, you get so far behind the eight ball that is, it's you are what you are. If you get through this 13 game stretch at less than eight and five, somebody, something's got to happen. Somebody in a normal season with a normal manager and a normal general manager, the manager would be fired. Mm hmm. I don't expect that to happen this season because no general manager gets to fire three managers. It just doesn't happen. And the idea of a general manager being fired in the middle of a season, I think for this organization, considering the connection between Mark Schabauer and Ross Atkins, I don't think that's happening at the end of this stretch. Yes. Again, you get to hit a couple more times and you go six and seven or seven and six. Or God forbid worse than that. Yeah. I mean, you got to absolutely look at Dfangs and people and Daniel Vogelbach have cut the court on that. Ernie Clement, God bless you. And what a great story he was out there. How did he shoot him and Davis Schneider, Buffalo roommates and had some big hits for this team out of the, off the, the hop of this season and has made some defensive plays even in yesterday's game, made a great play third base to, to prevent a run. But if you, you know, the thing I was doing with David Schneider and how I was projecting him to be like an effective major leaguer where I did this crazy things called looking at the minor league track record. Mm hmm. I also did the same thing with Ernie Clement. Yeah. And realize that, oh, you know what, the most optimistic projection, like even if he replicates what he did in the minor leagues, it's not a guy with much offensive upside. If he can't play defense, like if you're rolling the dice on routine plays with that guy, like that guy, the defensive bar for Ernie Clement is higher than Isaiah Kiner-Folefa. Yeah, because Isaiah Kiner-Folefa has at least established himself as a major leaguer throughout the course of his major leaguer over the course of a decade. Ernie Clement has to make absolutely every single routine play. And then a few more. And then a few more. If at the end of this 13 game stretch, the Blue Jays are not eight and five. He's got to go. Daniel Vogelbach's got to go. Again, in a normal season, John Schneider's got to go. This is your season upcoming in the next 11 games. And hey, let's not forget the opening game of this White Sox series. It's not all doom and gloom, right? But holy cow, getting too hit by the worst team in Major League Baseball. And then your manager saying, well, got to tip your cap to the worst team in baseball. Like, and Michael Colpack throwing a hundred. Guess what? Everybody throws a hundred. Yep. That's right. The idea of the you got to tip your hat to the reliever. That is insane. I know he didn't say that, but that is insane. That is just what it looks like at the end of games now. That's a closer for the White Sox. Okay, the White Sox. Okay. Do you understand what that is? It's not just the lack of hits. It's the lack of walks last night as well. You're saying something's got to give at the end of the 13 games. I understand the idea of not wanting to, you know, panic or rush into something. I go back to what we said at the beginning of yesterday. What are we waiting for the end of these 13 games for? I've seen enough Ernie Clement, love Big Earn, like the idea of a guy who could pick it. He had the big homer early in the year. But if he's not going to be perfect defensively, to your point, that's basically the bar that he has to live and operate at. I am tired of watching two, three, four hit games where even the stuff about like, again, I point to the just two walks last night, that to me points to the process kind of slipping away. This is the other part of this as well, is that whatever belief you had early on in the season, and you know, I remember you and I talk about these numbers a lot about, you know, them, their chase rate really dropping. When you struggle offensively, it becomes impossible to be that patient and that composed a hitter. So you're just going to see the guys that you do expect things on this team, they're going to get swallowed up by what's happening here as well. So I'd even dare go farther and say, well, why are we waiting for the end of these 13 games? Yeah, I mean, I already, I've been on record. I've been on record as saying, you can't play Isaiah, kind of fluff and Ernie Clement in the same game. I don't know why we're still doing this. Like, I don't, I don't understand it. Like, I really, I just don't, like, I do not understand the idea of those two guys in the lineup at the same time. Like, ideally, the rest of this lineup, the other seven dudes are capable offensively. And you can, you can feel your best defensive lineup. And those guys would be involved. This team can't hit. So the idea that you would have both of them in the lineup, and I know you're, you're struggling for, for right-handed bat, the only right-handed hitter that you didn't have in the game was, was Alejandro Kirk. There's ways to make it work where, you know, Kirk and Janssen are in the game at the same time. If you want to just load up your, your righty bats against the lefty starter, or God forbid you call up Arelvis Martinez from AAA Buffalo. And he's your DH against the left-handed starting pitching. It's, it's grotesque right now. What's happening in the worst part of it? And I know he, he wasn't his most dominant self yesterday. I thought he was pretty damn good. Now again, the bar has to be, we have to also realize that you say Kuchi was facing the only team in Major League Baseball that scored fewer runs than the Toronto Blue Jays this season. But that's, on any given night, getting six innings and your starter giving up two earned runs should be more than good enough to win. I don't care what the stats say because the stats right now, as far as the rotation is concerned, are not like overwhelming. They're middle of the road, and as far as like overall team ERA, they're actually bottom half of Major League Baseball in ERA. I don't care about that. >> Yes. >> Okay, I test, eyeball. >> Yeah. >> These five starters should be the envy of almost any team in Major League Baseball. This is one of the best errors of starting pitching in Blue Jays history. If this continues, where would wasting this staff rank among Toronto sports disappointments? >> Yeah, like it wouldn't be wasting the Austin Matthews era of just never accomplishing that. It wouldn't be that, but man, whatever we have said about the Blue Jays offense and how it can be, you know, visually nails on a chalkboard at times and a lack of a plan and hope and and pray. And it's the exact opposite with that starting staff. I mean, we're going to talk about it just this year, but you if you kind of want to look at it as the entire, I don't know, like, Manoa, Gosman, Barrios era. That's kind of how I look at this era of the starting pitching. I mean, you've had a Gosman, you've, he wasn't this young, right? I'm trying to think. >> No, he did not. >> He was right there. >> He was finalist. He had Manoa, same exact boat. You have Barrios looking incredible this year. You've had Kukuchi, who is a guy who you seem to completely overplay your hand in signing him. And then the Reclamation Project works out. The Reclamation Project of him sticks this year. And I know Manoa has lost in the wilderness, and I'm certainly not ready to say he is back full fledged yet. But if you were to told me he'd have two outings this year, they looked like the last one over the entirety of the season I would have signed up for it. So you have to be happy there. When you look at the way championship teams are made in this sport, how many times do we just look at a series and go, all right, well, do they have three or four pitchers? If they have three or four starters that you can trust, you should feel great heading into that series. And it just, I mean, obviously playoff series have been their own bugger boot for this Blue Jays team, but a Gosman, a Manoa, a Bassett, a Barrios, a Kukuchi. The idea of having nothing to show for that stable of starters would be disastrous, quite honest. >> Yeah, so the answer is not at the tippy top of recent Toronto sports disappointments yet, because the numbers do not suggest that this Blue Jays rotation is as good as I believe it to be. And it would take a couple more turns through the rotation for the numbers. And for those guys to look like they have recently, specifically Alec Manoa and his last two starts and Kevin Gosman had the uneven start. But the rest of those guys keep doing what they're doing. And this team at the end of the season is gonna be top five in ERA amongst the starters. So until that happens, it's hard to talk about them being the biggest disappointment of recent vintage when it comes to Toronto sports. I mean, the number one example for me, the biggest waste of a season was the Leafs during the North Division, where like Austin Matthews doesn't get to play an 82 game season, but has the highest rate of goal scoring in his entire career. The Leafs do the damn thing where like you can't score against them. They go into Edmonton during the when you used to play the three game series against the teams and with three separate goalies give up one goal, none of them to Conor McDavid or Leon Dreyseidel. And then losing seven games to a Canadian team that finished more than 20 points behind you during the regular season. That one's gotta be number one. You know what, close second. And you can't say the 2015 Blue Jays, because at least they got to an American League Championship Series. But that was, man, as good a chance of winning a World Series as you can have. Well, that Amish kid lying right there in Andrew's face like, no, my hand was here. I know what you're talking about. I didn't reach over the fence. In the moment in 2021, I think we all felt like that was that was being wasted because, you know, Vlad had this incredible season, but no big deal like he's just that this is the coming out party. And now you're going to have like multiple kicks of the can like, would they have been one of the dark horse picks to win the World Series as they get into the playoffs in 2020? I'm sure. But also, if you polled Major League executives and you asked them like, hey, all 30 teams in Major League Baseball, you can sign up to be a part of the next five years of any of them. Yeah, I you're going to have more than a few people that would have said the Toronto Blue Jays easily. They led baseball in OPS in 2021 and missed the playoffs. Kind of got you got to throw that into the mix. Man, Marcus Simeon was as good a one year wonder zero and not that he was his career is a one year wonder, but I just mean in this market specifically. I mean, why obviously will always hold the standard for that. Like the most you can do is match what Kawai did in one year. But I mean, Simeon coming in and acting like that, I mean, you know, veteran Sage leader guy that they've kind of seemingly been searching for since since he left. Yeah, that that team, what they were capable of doing, it was the perfect amount of had their feet enough wet, but also didn't quite know what they were getting themselves into. They were they were in really a perfect spot. And then yeah, again, like you had crazy to think now, but like peak of his powers, Vlad. Here's the potential for this season to enter the conversation, right? Like so the numbers start to suggest that this team is what I believe it to be one of the best starting rotations in all the baseball. And the offense continues to be one of the historic worst in franchise history. Like that's what we're talking about here where the offensive bar is as low as it's ever been considering the strength of the rotation. And yeah, you can quibble about the bullpen and Trevor Richards has actually been really, really good this season. And they're about to get chad green back and Jimmy Garcia is the best reliever in baseball and Jordan Romano only has one blown save this season. This Blue Jays rotation continues to pitch like it has the last couple of times through and your the second worst offense in all of baseball. I don't know how we're going to have a choice, but to view this is one of the biggest disappointments in recent Toronto sports history because it's not just that they're bad, right? Last season they were bad. They were a bottom half offense and it couldn't hit with runners in scoring position for a couple of months before they rebounded at the end of the season. That was bad. This is like the worst ever four times they've been to hit or less and we're not through the month of May like we're midway through the month of May here. That leads baseball by the way. Yeah, I would hope only by one though the Cincinnati Reds have three such instances really of being too hit or less. But yeah, it's it's not just that they've underperformed offensively. It's that they've underperformed to a degree that is insane. They have the worst slugging percentage with runners in scoring position this season. Well, I think that is going to be and you know, again, like we're talking about the disappointment because the starting staff is so good, but that is going to be the thing we're going to look back on from this era and it's just never going to make a lick a sense that they just work because the prevailing thought we've kind of had year over year is like, okay, we'll see if this normalizes. Generally speaking, it's kind of one of those stats that but it's just continued to trend this way for two, three seasons now of being unable to do damage with runners in scoring position to your point about the slug there. So yeah, I think that adds so much to it as well is that and you can't help but have bow and Vlad at the center of this and what you thought they were supposed to be as well. Like, I understand we're tying this to the starting rotation, but it'd be different if there weren't the offensive pillars there. And it was, all right, you're scratching and clawing like you're trying to find guys, it's supposed to look this way. It's not supposed to look this way. And I think that just adds to the frustration of this era. Somebody needs to get in John Schneider's ear and make sure that we never hear about tipping your cap to anybody. >> Ever again, but more specifically, not from the team who I get like the White Sox, the reason they've been so bad generally has been their inability to score. >> Mm-hm, five runs up too. >> Yeah, and again, Garrett Crochet looks pretty good. Looks like there's a future there in the rotation. >> Yeah. >> You can't. There's no world in which you can say again, especially not anytime during this 13 game scratch that you're tipping your cap to the opposing starter while he may be throwing near 100 from the left side. >> Yeah. >> Cuz you got a guy that did that and the White Sox scored five runs a game. Again, the only team in baseball scoring fewer runs than the Blue Jays scored five runs. Again, you're a very good starter. >> Yeah, Satchel Page and Sandy Kofax could have a baby. And I don't want this Blue Jays team tipping their cap to them. Like, it does not, it does not matter who is on the mound. Nolan Ryan reincarnating, pick your guy, don't want to hear it. I'm done with that. Remove it from the lexicon. Like, every Blue Jays skipper has one. We had Victoria Day with Charlie Montoya. It's like, just don't talk about it. It's like now tipping the cap. Don't talk about it. You're done. I don't care how impressive the other starter was. Got to find a way to coax something out of this team. >> You know, who's not tipping his cap ever? I don't think is Craig Barouba. >> You'd have to look like punch him, like wearing a fedora on the bench first. >> Yeah, yeah. No, I don't, it doesn't seem like there's gonna be too many post game media availabilities where he's like Mr. Afable. >> No, but it's funny that you said that. I'm like, I actually could see him being like a closet, hot tipper in life, though, like a legitimate one, of like, well, thanks. Like, I could kind of see that from Barouba on a golf course, like, oh, thanks there. I could, I could be kind of easily see that. But you're right. In terms of saying it to the team, not gonna happen. >> Yeah. We'll talk about his introductory media availability yesterday and more as the fan morning show continues, Ben and his friend, Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. >> Hey, it's Alige for a Fire. >> And I'm Justin Cuthrey. >> Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day, and tee up the biggest games of the night. >> It's the fan pregame, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC] >> Day morning, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben and his friend Gunning. I'd like to introduce a new phrase. Let me know how you feel about it. >> Okay, I'm excited. >> Go. Craig Barouba has what I would describe as resting hockey coach face. >> Mm, yeah. >> Like, I think he just, some people just look the part. Craig Barouba feels like he's out of central casting. I was there a smile at any point? I guess it's a dream job for many, including Craig Barouba, who like nothing was ever guaranteed for him in the coaching realm, right? Like, played over 1,000 games in the NHL. Tough guy started his coaching career with the Flyers, got an opportunity there, and then American League, and then an assistant with the blues, and then interim job, and then wins the Stanley Cup. And at that point, his career is made, but he said it as a Canadian dude, like this is, I mean, for an American dude. For anybody that is a head coach, or has coaching aspirations in this league, being the head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, whatever the postseason success that they've had, is a dream job for many. And not that you're ever, like, he understood the assignment is like, to be Mr. Sirius, but like at some point, you would think it would break through that like, you're happy and good for him. We never saw it yesterday. No, it's a good thing he wasn't up there when direct deposit hit. I imagine the look on the face is probably a little different. I love you coining. Did you say resting hockey coach face? Yeah. Because I think a lot of people have this. Like I have said, Scotty Scheffler actually possesses resting America face. It's just like he just looks like America. So I am a big believer of of you, you go in there with it. I think with Barube, he kind of like you're right in terms of the excitement there. Obviously he's excited. Obviously he's happy, but it's like, that's the personality you wanted to bring in a more stern, serious guy who, you know, I'm sure he enjoys his day. I'm sure there's fun at the office, but here to work. And I just think you're kind of seeing them lean right into that. I think the most interesting thing for me was to watch him almost undersell what he's been brought in here to do. Every other question was, so you're going to be mean. How mean you're going to be? You're going to really get in these guys kitchen. And it was him not downplaying it because I think he understands he's been brought in here to do. But almost trying to, it felt to me like he was almost trying to hammer home that this doesn't need to be an adversarial relationship between him and the players. And that was the tone of it that just jumped out to me so much was for a guy who was brought in here to bring accountability. And he certainly talked about that yesterday. I almost feel like a big part of that presser was him was him kind of downplaying it and saying, Hey, I am going to be tough on these guys. I am going to hold them accountable. Doesn't mean I need to be screaming in their face or screaming to you about them every day. If I had more time or the inclination, I would have counted how many times the word accountability said by both he and Brad for living. And I could have guessed it was the buzz word of the day yesterday. But yeah, he leaned into that and you're right. Like this was the number one point of curiosity for me is how much would he like the average Toronto, my police fan who's watched the postseason flameouts just wanted a guy that would yell at these guys, right? Yes. They want they wanted an avatar for the anger they felt watching games three and four against the Boston Bruins. They wanted whoever was angriest in the fan base to coach this team. It's almost what the fans wanted. And instead of yeah, and man, I understand why it was a smart move. Like you can't start that way. You have to build the trust before you get the accountability. But yeah, here is, I mean, Elliot Friedman asking the question about that very thing. Hey, how much will that be a part of what you use your arsenal using the media and the pulpit that you have to demand accountability from your players? Yeah. And I don't really bring that up publicly very often. You know, I could think of a couple times they have done that. But for the most part, it's all internal. It's with my players management. But I keep that stuff internal for the most part. Yeah, you can think of the one clip that has been making the rounds again from February 2023 when he's talking about the blues highest paid players, not performing like it performing like they didn't care. But yeah, that's one one clip. And it came after already establishing the level of respect and trust between he and the players and winning Stanley couple do that. So it's pretty hard to imagine him coming out of the gates super strong that way before he's even like, I know he's had conversations with these players before he's gotten on to the ice in a practice with these guys. Yeah, it would make no sense. There's nothing for him. He wasn't the coach for whatever you whatever ills happen to this team in the in the first round series against Boston. He's not going to sit here and go over all that. And I also think that, you know, using the first bullet, like you have to be careful about that. It's going to come at some point in time. And you know, I think in in with different coaches in years past, you've almost seen the opposite where you say, all right, let's send this opening salvo early. I think that's what you saw with Keith against the the Rangers game many, many moons ago. And then you kind of walk it back. I don't think there will be walking back from Brubei. But I also don't think there will be him quick to do this. I also think so much of the makeup of the team is going to depend. It's not going to change who Craig Brubei is as a coach, but it certainly changes the way you go about it. I mean, if you have the same core four guys here and nobody wants to wave a new, a no move, then yeah, maybe it is a little harder and it's a little more direct, right, right out the gate. But if there's a world where this team feels like it's headed in, not a new direction, but a different one and a piece of the furniture isn't here so much, I think that just allows everybody to kind of have a reset as well. So yeah, I think I think we all wanted the bluster and but I could have told you that wasn't going to happen. I wasn't surprised by anything I heard yesterday. No, I wasn't either. And boy, you know, what was ringing in my ears watching it was our conversation with Luke Fox yesterday about how, yeah, you're not going to get these soliloquies from Craig Brubei like you did from Sheldon Keefe. That seems pretty clear that he's going to be very succinct and he's not going to play your game. He's not going to give you the long winding quote that maybe you want to throw into your game story. That seems well and the thing about that is that that's where the kind of I think with Keefe and not that he would, you know, if he wanted to be direct and criticize, he would and then he would have all usually have to walk it back. But I think that it would come in minute six of one of these availabilities where he's been talking and meandering and I just don't think you're going to see that like to your point with Brubei either. And I think keeping it tight is kind of a feature of allowing him to not step in it. I mean, that's the other part of it, not that he's not capable of handling the media, but there's 10 15 reporters there. They'll talk to you all day. You got it. I mean, if I can give him one piece of advice, you got to bring this back to Leaflyn, just the Mike Babcock, no more waiting for PR to save you. Just Mike Babcock went and he had enough. We go, all right, it's good job, man. Talk to you more. Yeah, the other thing is so Brad for living said, and he was very careful not to make this a point of comparison and besmirching the good name of Sheldon Keefe, who he decided to dismiss after signing him to an extension last offseason. But yeah, he said he has a presence to him. And yeah, I'm surprised to find out that Craig Brubei is only six foot one. And maybe I'm doing the thing where like, hey, I look at the former NHL tough guy and the head coach that has won a Stanley Cup, the head coach who I've seen the intermission address of his team in that game seven against the Boston Bruins. And I'm like, God, yeah, I do want to run through a wall for that guy. Like, maybe I'm applying that retroactively to the presence thing. But I got to tell you, like, I did get that sense that he emanates some different presence than like, sorry, Sheldon Keefe. Yeah, I think there is something to that. I just, I think to me, the interesting thing will be is I certainly felt it a little. I maybe don't feel quite as strongly as you, but does that carry over to the guys on the team? Like did they feel there is a presence? I mean, you got to figure that the guy would even take the Stanley Cup coaching thing out of it. The guy who played a thousand games in the NHL, Sheldon keep playing the NHL as well, but like he had a cup of coffee. This is not a significant player. Craig Brubei has been through the wars. He's fought Brendan Shanahan, which I thought was one of the highlights of the media of over a thousand games, over 3000 pims. Yeah, I mean, how do you 89 playoff games? I mean, the other thing though is like, hey, if you're expecting Craig Brubei to, you know, bring the sensibilities of himself as a player to the head coaching realm, like understands how different the game is now than when he played in it. But yeah, no, I think there's naturally, if you're an NHL player, it's easier when you're receiving your marching orders from a guy who knows exactly what he's talking about twofold. One, he's been all the way to the top of the mountain as a head coach and and to a thousand games. That's legit. He's seen it all, man. He's seen it all as a player in the postseason and he's seen it all as a head coach. And again, no offense to Sheldon Keith. And he won a Calder Cup. Yeah, like he also has a winning pedigree, but it just has not come at this level. This guy has done it in both regards. Yeah, no, it's not it's not even close to the same resume. It's like Sheldon Keith played 125 games like he can relate to a certain extent, but it's not a thousand games. It's not having been in the league for basically two, two decade long stints as a player. Now, now as a, as a coach, what you've seen, I, the other thing I was thinking about watching this yesterday is, and you know, so much of this goes to roster construction and who's even going to be part of the team. But is there a, I mean, is there a type of guy you think is going to kind of benefit most from this? Because I think we think of the, like, just close your eyes. You think of Max, don't you think that that's a guy who's going to fit in really, really well. You think of a Simone Benoit, like, why wouldn't a Craig Berube like him? But honestly, the guy I was thinking about, who I think is going to do kind of the best under Berube, or at least maybe has a new lease on life, is John Tavares. And I think that's totally tied to the roster construction. I think with him being in the last year of his deal and just the understanding of where he's at and the possibility of moves to be made, that there's a world where John Tavares isn't your to see, you know, in bold. There's, he's a, he's a third line center at times. Maybe he's a second line center. And I just think he talked so much about playing with structure and a team identity and team unity. And I do think that a guy like Tavares, who, you know, they, they mentioned, I think they mentioned speed once or twice, but it was all about straight line, heavy, hard hockey. It feels like the game's Tavares always plays the best. And it's something you and I talked about all year long is that Tavares is so much, his effectiveness is so dictated. And not that he can't be effective against other teams, but the slower, the more plotting, the more they want to play a buttoned up game, that benefits Tavares. And I do wonder if you, you kind of see a world and then also the captain thing of it all, you know, we know that's been a topic, a conversation. I do wonder if a new coach there kind of gives him a new kind of lease on life in that regard as well. Like Tavares is the guy I can't stop thinking about. And not that not that I think he's going to go back to 90 point JT or anything like that. But I think it's more about slowing the decline than getting back there. And I could easily see that happen. Well, if you're talking about the guys who can take the public scrutiny, if it does get to that point. And again, I said it's, it's all mostly behind closed doors until it has to be in the public realm, which it did, I guess in 2023 for the St. Louis Blues. Like it's John Tavares, it's William Neelander, as far as the guys that are on the big tickets that have been able, we assume that's the reason why Sheldon Keef has publicly mentioned him. He mentioned them in his post game media availabilities at times. Like those guys can hack it. So for that reason, I could see Craig Barube being a perfect coach for those guys. The other guy I was thinking about is Matthew Nye's who's like, this is a huge year for Matthew Nye's. And when was he at his best? When the physical element of his game was most present. Yeah. And you talk about the Gordie Howe hat trick against penguins, talk about the physical play that again started to emerge in the post season. Like if that is the new modus operandi of the 2024, 25 Toronto Maple Leafs and Craig Barube is going to be the face of that. And Craig Barube can tell Matthew Nye's listen, here are the heights you can reach if you continue to bring that element to your game night in night out that to me that feels like a perfect symmetry between a head coach and a player. Yeah, that's a great one. I hadn't thought about that. And you know, I think that there has obviously been a pretty big shift in leaf land. And I think, you know, like the Leafs under Dubas started to have a bit of this shift towards the tail end. But you see the type of team true living wants to build. You see the type of team Barube wants to coach. And I think that Nye's is a guy who is, he's at such a fork in the road moment in his career. And this isn't to say he's going to become an NHL or he's going to fall off face of the earth. I'm pretty confident Matthew Nye is going to go play, you know, at minimum, seven, 800 games in this league. I'm pretty confident about that. But this is the moment where you kind of got to decide and not decide, but grow into what you need to be as a player. And it shouldn't be a perimeter based guy who wants to get his shot. Not that that's been Nye's, but you can see a world where a different coach just highlights different parts of the game. And I think it's pretty obvious what what they're going to highlight in Nye's game. And it's all this stuff. Matthew Nye's at his absolute best is he feeds off the physicality. I mean, I'm not going to pretend he looks super tough saying fight me to David pastran act. But you could just see the kind of moxie growing off of him in that moment. I will also say it's a good thing the Leafs have a captain or I'm pretty sure Craig Brubay would have walked up there with Jake McCabe to name him. It's like, that does feel like that's his guy. Yeah, no, why wouldn't you be? I've loved Jake McCabe, who makes $2 million for one more year, his official name. But yeah, it's like, that's another guy who just he even has resting hockey coach face. Like he's, it's not quite there yet. Cause he's, I think he's in the late 20s, early 30s, and are not quite 30 yet. But by the time he is of the age of Craig Brubay, Jake McCabe will have elite resting hockey coach. I mean, he had, of all the Toronto Maple Leafs had the most playoff face by the end of it. Yes. Because it was all battered and bruised and cut up and destroyed. A couple more things for me from that media takeaway. I mean, I hear media availability. Yes. I mentioned the Brendan Shanahan, Craig Brubay fight, which was, I mean, that was from the early 90s. The video of it feels like it was from the 1960s. I don't know what was happening with broadcast television in, in 1992 or whatever. It is again, like we said this before, but it is shocking that you have Brendan Shanahan, a guy that was prototypical, power forward, not afraid, afraid to drop the gloves. He seemed to believe that he loved it. He seemed to believe he had more than a hundred NHL fights, which sounds right, that it took until year eight for him to be like, you know what? I think Brad, you might be right. Like some snot might be required for this team. Yeah, it is, it is insane that, I mean, for the guy that at the outset went out and got Lulee Morello and Mike Babcock pivoted so quickly to the, hey, you know what? Kyle Dubas sold me. We're going to do this thing. We're going to win multiple cups with only skill. It's a, you don't throw the skill away, need the skill. But like that, that that guy leaned into the only skill thing is nuts. I know, I know people are going to go, yeah, shocker that you would, would take that into what Ben, but just said, but I've been thinking about this because I've had the Shanahan kind of, well, it's not a 180. It's a 360 because to your point, it's where we're basically back to where they started with Baroobay and tree living to Lew and Babs is, is that how persuasive in his beliefs of the game must Kyle Dubas be? Yeah, like, again, Brandon Shannahan, incredible salesmen, Brandon Shanahan, who has done everything you would want, worked at the league, a cup champion, the toughest of the tough. And how many, I mean, those guys, obviously, as I'm sure Shanny and tree do now, sit around watching hockey, talking hockey all the time. And I mean, maybe I'm more, I could see this easier because I do feel like I could be like kind of swayed and talked into things. But it really does feel like Shanahan was just sitting there watching games, Dubas every night. And it slowly took them over, almost to have a complete 360 to back where we started like this. That's the thing I couldn't stop thinking about with, because I was having this conversation is just how persuasive must Dubas be in his beliefs to be able to change. This isn't some exec, this is Brandon Shannahan. And he was able to, apparently, persuade him that way. Kyle Dubas would be the greatest used car salesman in the history of the world. Like, not only was he able to convince Brandon Shanahan to lean entirely into skill and to like move off of Lulee Morello and to move off, Mike Babcock, that was an easier one because like the proof was in the pudding there as he quit on. But also to convince Brandon Shanahan to re-sign him despite the fact that Kyle Dubas did not sign the extension, Brandon Shanahan, despite like the insane lack of post-season success, was ready to re-sign Kyle Dubas. And then when Kyle Dubas talked himself out of that extension, the Pittsburgh Penguins were like, how's more money to run the tippy top of this organization? It's insane. Like, I, I actually, when it's, it all is over for Kyle Dubas, I need him to, to, to start a seminar on how to convince, how to persuade, how to sell things to people. He's saying he's talking, he's talking, he's Tony Robbins is what you're saying. Yeah, that's nuts. Get him a little Madonna, Mike, get him up at the front of a conference room in a hotel. He's got the sleeves rolled up. He's, he's making eye contact with particular people at any given moment. Yeah, we need like, yeah, the Tom Cruise from Magnolia is what I'm thinking about there. Yeah. Yeah. And not, I'll just throw my own two cents in there. Like, I'm not going to pretend like, you know, I've met him once or twice. And he does, like, he does have a kind of charming magnetic effect about him. It's like shocker. Yeah. Well, we didn't hear, and what I was terrified, we were going to hear is how close this team is. We didn't hear that at all. In fact, we heard the opposite. Brad for Living saying the thing again, that Luke Fox had his 57 thoughts that like, I want, are you guys watching the playoffs? Like, you're watching, right? Like, you see what's happening here? Like, you watch the games like, leave season ends as it always does in the first round. And then like, you don't stop watching hockey. Like, you still watch the playoffs, right? I do. Yeah. And then, and then you, you see that the games that are played right now, and how different it looks from the games that we've played even in the seven against the Boston Bruins. Like, again, like, thank God, thank God, you're not saying that you're close, and you understand that it's not, hey, man, while factually it is a game seven over time against a Bruins team. A Bruins team that was beaten pretty handily, although it like went longer than we thought it might in six games against the Panthers. But like, watch that series. They were beaten pretty handily. And the rest of the postseason games look like games you're incapable of playing specifically in games three and specifically in game four. Thank God. Yeah. I mean, I've made my piece of this a million times like I, they're not allowed to say it. I am. It's like the idea that you just look at that series of Boston where you're missing your two best players for nearly half of it. They each single handedly win you a game, but you're not allowed to say that you could have easily got back. Like, I think the Leafs could have easily given Florida a series. Do I think they would have beat them? No. But I think the Leafs sit full health or whatever full health is in the Stanley Cup playoffs, you know, like not with guys blind and being pulled by doctors out of games. I do still think this now. I also think that much like Matt Fratton missing that breakaway in the Bruins game in 2013 saved this team from going all in on like a Tyler Bozak JVR core. I also think that this was the, this was this shot that needed to happen to kind of force this team into the change that I do think needs to happen. That's not a, that's not a, the players here aren't good enough. That is a salary structure thing and the money being allocated forwards versus defense for me. Yeah. And to that point, Bradger Living naturally was asked about the futures of Mitch Marner, John Tavares and the panic free agents of Max Domi and Tyler Bertouza. And he said, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Which you expected him to give an on answer on. Yeah, of course. Yeah. What we'll see does sound particularly cryptic, but yeah, we'll see. That's an upcoming decision. Yeah. And those guys could not feel more different. Like Bertouza, not to say they wouldn't maybe want to bring them back, but that just feels like, okay, go get the biggest ticket long as term you can. Domi feels like he's going to try to find a way if it makes sense for him to thread a needle here. And I mean, Marner is the, the wild card of wild cards for this off season, like it all kind of hinges on him. All right. When we come back, Mark Feinstein, getting the trade rumors started already when it comes to Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Boba Shet, gauging anonymous American League executives about whether the Blue Jays would put them on the market. And we'll give you our conference championship pressure index ratings for both the Stanley Cup playoffs and the NBA conference championships, which are underway yesterday, the blown opportunity by the Indiana Pacers. That and more next is the fan morning show continues. Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
