[MUSIC PLAYING] Fan Morning Show Sportsnet 5.9 of the fan, badass, brand-gunning, reminder that we're into summer programming here. We're into, like, non-leafs in the postseason programming. Which means you can catch Real Kipper on board. 3 to 4 p.m. Eastern time on Sportsnet 5.9 of the fan and Sportsnet 360, speaking of which. Time now for our insider. Brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. Today's insider, Nick Kiprios, he of the aforementioned Real Kipper and born. How's it going, Kipper? Good morning, guys. Well, thanks. How are you, guys? I'm doing very well. So yeah, I love this job, just in general. But I love that we get the sneak preview of your latest on the Toronto Star. And today, you're talking about Brendan Shanahan's seemingly diminished power within the organization. He's still the president, but only in the Leafs. There's a guy at MLSE who's like a hockey guy now. And obviously, yeah, the contract extension not coming his way. How do you view Brendan Shanahan standing within this organization today? Well, I did not use the term diminished. Not me, that's me. That's me, that's you. It's really, you know, it's hard to really read in terms of where, you know, the shift is changed between now. Keith Pelley coming in and Brendan. Brad's taking a real forceful kind of look right now with decision-making, which included Craig Barooby. But the article's basically today in the Toronto Star, for me, was about just the opposite kind of feel of bringing in a guy like Craig Barooby compared to, you know, Brendan thinking outside the box with Kyle Dubis. So it's almost opposite stay, you know, this week for the Toronto Maple Leafs, where Kyle Dubis was a guy that Brendan really took a chance on and came in with really nothing but about a thought and idea of what he could become. And now this week, Brendan standing at the podium with Brad goes with the safest guy of all out there in Craig Barooby. So, you know, what you didn't have with Kyle Dubis, either through, you know, reputation, credibility, reliability, you totally have now in Craig Barooby. You know, what do you think, and you know, I think one of the most interesting parts of this is that, you know, not that the board has completely changed, but the president of the org has is that Shanahan's kind of right back to where he started, at least it seems like philosophically, right? It was Lou and Babes and Shani and, okay, that's as old school as it gets. And then, you know, I think part of it is obviously that he, the Leafs had their hand forced a little bit in terms of the avalanche coming, a calling, and it was promote him or lose him. And then, even Babcock saying to kind of promote Dubis within the org, it's just so jarring to be, it's not a 180, it's a complete 360 to be right back where they started from, and it's hard not. And look, the Leafs have done things in the 10 years that Shanahan has been here, including like the making it safe and the bringing Dave Key on back and all that. And I think that's important, but it is kind of jarring that we're right back to where we started at the beginning of all this with like old school head coach, old school hockey man GM, and yeah, the roster is better than what it was when Shanahan first took over, but it does kind of feel like we're right back to where we started almost. - Yeah, for sure. And then only Keith Pelly, Brendan Shanahan, and maybe to a lesser degree, Brad Trelevine, knows how that kind of that new hierarchy's gonna work there in terms of job description, we're really not sure. But there is a sense that Brendan's gonna be a lot closer to Brad Trelevine than no question that he was to Kyle Dubis, especially towards the latter part where Kyle strong-armed him and started making decisions based on what he thought, not what Brendan thought, and the one of the reasons why Brendan was not let go when they, at the end of the year, was that Brendan still has a lot to offer. And again, where that pecking order is now, only they really know, but he's still an asset and will find out in the coming months or the coming year, where that truly lies, but he's around. He's still the president of the hockey club, and he'll have an impact here, moving forward. - All right, this isn't to diminish Kyle Dubis, but like, isn't he the world's greatest salesman that you can convince Brendan Shanahan to lean his heart into skill and away from the thing that they've tried to lean back into? As they did under his watch? - Buddy, like, are you kidding me? Like, you know, general manager of a billion dollar organization selling, excite, lapidias, vacuums, this guy could have done it all. - Honestly, and then talking your way into a higher paying job and a more elevated spot in Pittsburgh with an all-time player in Sydney. It's unbelievable. - And then go and convince everybody go get one of the best defenseman in modern day history and make the playoffs or miss the playoffs. It's mind-boggling. - Yeah, and again, it's no offense. 'Cause you need that has to be... Nobody gets that level without being able to convince people of things. But like, yeah, again, Brendan Shanahan specifically, he with, what, 100 career NHL fights, they're like, "Hey, you know what? "We're gonna do it all on skill." And then he was able to convince him so soon after the Lou Lamarello Mike Babcock era is... It's truly, truly incredible and impressive, honestly, on Kyle Dubas' part. But yeah, here we are back to something that more closely aligns with Brendan Shanahan's sensibilities, I think. - Impressive is one way of looking at it. - Yeah, but I think the other thing that's interesting, and you mentioned it there, the hierarchy in terms of how this works, if Brendan Shanahan has had like a re-enlightening or like, he went with Joe Wall, like backpacking through Switzerland and he found himself back to old school hockey, you know, we talk about the idea of a pecking order and if Dubas and Shanahan, and I don't think it's fair to say they were completely opposed to how they viewed the game, but if they felt differently about something, at a certain point in time, the pecking order really mattered. I don't know how many of those friction points there's gonna be with triliving and Shanahan, so not to say that the hierarchy doesn't matter at all, but I can see a world where triliving's going, "Yeah, whatever I want to do, he's gonna rubber stamp," 'cause he thinks it's a great idea too, whereas with Dubas, the salesman of it all, I imagine there were a lot of the ideas he was trying to, or not trying, did implement here. He kind of had to sell them on Shanahan, and I think that's why the pecking order of it all kind of became not complicated, but so contentious, and I just feel like the way triliving and Shanahan potentially see the game the same kind of removes that friction. Oh, without a doubt. And then, again, throw in Craig Barooby, because there's just no way that Craig Barooby would be in a position that he was in the last week, 10 days, and have other clubs make him offers and not at least set some sort of boundaries on what type of roster he'd like to see or at least have some input where my words are taken seriously. Between now with the three of them and where Keith Pelley wants to get his hands dirty or not remains to be seen as well, but they're all kind of on the same page, and I think the way they view the game should align a lot more than what we've seen in the past, so at least it gives them some sort of cohesiveness as a management group moving forward. Again, Craig Barooby, the safest guy that you can get. You know the meat and potatoes of what the lineup needs to kind of look like and feel from training camp right to April. There will not be wavering. There will not be going back and forth. There will not be Craig Barooby saying, "Yeah, maybe I'll try Willie Sender." And, yeah. And then, you know, they'll be none of that. Or Mitch Marner on defense. Speaking of Mitch, yeah, obviously it's going to be the story of the offseason as to whether they approach him and whether he acquiesces to waiving his no move clause, but let's just play it out that he does return to the Toronto Maple Leafs. How do you think he would do under Craig Barooby? I think he's just -- I think he's going to be fine. Like, think about the program that he's come from, guys. He was a London Knight. He had Dale Hunter. He had Mark Hunter. Those were hockey guys. Those were Craig Baroobies. And the guy led one of the most successful junior programs in the history right along with Matthew Kachuk. So, where is the problem? The guy was up for a Selkie. The guy's got more of a defensive conscience than anybody on that roster. Kneelander, Matthews. You know, he is a Selkie finalist. So, I don't see any issues at all with Marner. I see a potential friction between him and Willie Kneelander to be quite honest with you. I mean, towards the latter part, go ask Kyru and St. Louis. I mean, this guy thought, you know, he was going to throw a party when Barooby got fired because of apparently Barooby, you know, rode him pretty hard. So, you know, is it the fact that, you know, you're chasing points? Is it the fact that you're blowing the zone? You know, you're cheating up high. Mitch was often the third man high on most nights of his career. So, I don't see any issues with Barooby and Marner moving forward. If, if, if in fact, he stays. Yeah. And I do want to, I do want to pick up on that in a second. The Kneelander thing is interesting because I'll be honest, the first blush. I heard that and I say, but Kneelander said he likes to be coached hard. But that's also the only coach he's ever played. Like, I mean, I know he had the stint under Babcock, but that Sheldon Keefe and William Kneelander, that's probably the guy who has coached him the most in his adult life. I mean, going back to these 15, 16 years old. So, I do think that's interesting because Kneelander's always been adamant of like, hey, I don't mind getting called out. I don't mind getting bumped down. But it's one thing to do that with somebody you have a long track record relationship with different with Barooby. And I don't say that to say that Barooby shouldn't be hard on him if he needs to be. But yeah, I think that's an interesting point. You bring up going back to Marner. What do we think is going to happen with this? I imagine everyone is in a little bit of an exhale situation here. And the Leafs had to take care of their business and getting their coach done. I mean, there is going to be a little bit of a stand still, not from back channel discussions, but until anything could happen until, you know, the Stanley Cup final is over and we get to a draft here. Just where do you think the Leafs are at with Mitch Marner right now? Well, where they are is they've got him into bars with no move clause. So ultimately they control the power from here on end in terms of, you know, whether they stay or they go. But I would still imagine that they're going to look at all options, including trading Marner. And if in fact that they find something that's suitable, then they're going to have to go back to him and get a feel for what he wants to do. But they need to be prepared to understand that if they do keep him to start the season, then they're going to be looking at a very heavy distraction. And, you know, just go back a year ago with the Willie Neelander contract and how much we talked about it and how much we were contemplating, you know, if he stays or if he goes and how much can they afford and how much is too much. And this was all on a great start where he was on pace for 130 points. So it was the distraction was, are they going to overpay? And if so, how much this one's going to feel much different because there's going to be some people that are adamant that they shouldn't sign them at any price. And, you know, whether or not you believe or not that Mitch Marner deserves a race or a pay cut, you know, in the outside world, he's not, he's not going below what he's making already at 10.9. So his next contract will be, you know, as a unrestricted free agent at seven years, in a year from now or trade that will get him eight years and a hundred million dollars. I mean, think about the response in this city if the Leafs even contemplated that right now. So that's, that's where you can start thinking about where that distraction will be if Mitch Marner starts as a Toronto Maple Leaf in October. Yeah, and you're right to point out that he holds all the cards there. You know, obviously, I don't think Mitch Marner is sitting there today with a pen and paper going, here's the spots I'm open to. But how big a net do we think that would potentially cast? I mean, obviously the biggest, the biggest piece of the puzzle is, are they going to give him a hundred million dollars? That's, that's the first check mark. I imagine there's a lot of teams in the league that would be lining up to do that. Like, how particular do we think Marner would be about picking, picking his spot? If it does kind of come to that, because obviously this is a different situation, but we've seen the Clodgeroo in the past where he goes, I'm going to go to one place. So get what you can for me, but everyone knows where I'm going. I don't think that's how it would play out with Marner. But I do wonder how wide a net he'd be willing to cast of places he'd have interested. Well, listen, he'd be no different than anyone else who's a star that's looking at UFA. And that is, it's a, it's a blank canvas. And it's not up to him. It's, it's up to other teams now to, to put their first foot forward here and say, hey, we want you and, and then show him how, how badly that they want him. So I would think that the Leafs would be open for dialogue between his agent and other clubs. If it ever gets to that, where they can start having meaningful dialogue. So again, he's no different than any other star UFA. It starts with interest from another club. And then it starts with dialogue. It starts where, where do you envision me? Who do you envision me playing with? This is like, this is some deep stuff moving towards, you know, one year away from, from UFA. But, you know, there's some teams that have room today. And then there's some teams that say, hey, give me six months and I'll make room for you. So I think it's going to be a real wide range of teams that would show interest. Even if they don't look like they have the salary cap room for him because he's that good. You know, you can start also connecting the dots with certain teams and how they like to conduct their business. And, you know, have you heard all this stuff about Nashville? Yeah, that's where I was going to go next. You know, and it's like, okay, first of all, Nashville just got rid of McDonough. Because they didn't like, I think, the 12 million left on his deal. And, you know, they've got Forsberg there, and he's at what, nine and a half. I think that eight and a half, or even worse, even worse for Mitch. Because I don't see a world where Nashville turns around and gives Mitch Marner 11 and a half or 12 million when their best player, Forsberg, is at eight and a half. So that would be a shocker to me that they would, that they would bump up Marner, you know, four or five million dollars more than Forsberg. But there'll be other clubs out there. And, you know, the New York Rangers, we know they lost last night. But there'll be a team in a year or two that could open it up for a superstar. If not Marner, you know, Drysidal McDavid. The Rangers will be coming on real strong in another year or two for a free agent. As Panerians deal slowly dissipates. Wow. I mean, tomorrow's is deal. It expires to the conclusion of this upcoming season as well. The cap is going up. Aren't the the Leafs going to be involved in any discussion, especially for like a McDavid? Come on. Now we're talking about David stuff. Now we're jumping ourselves here. No. So you don't want to all talk about the predators thing because like there is like, in theory, the potential fit there with UC Sorrows is also a guy with one year left on his deal. And obviously the Leafs going into a season where Joseph Wall looks pretty good. It's difficult to imagine him staying healthy and carrying the load as a number one starter for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Is there like if we, if we just take the extension that Mitch Marner would have to sign out of it maybe and him leapfrogging Phillip Forsberg to that degree, is there any sense to be made for a Sorrows Marner trade framework? Let me throw one more thing in there at you, Kipper, is how much of a potential motivation for the predators is that Mitch Marner would be the sexiest player they've had in franchise history by the factor of 10,000, not the best, but the sexiest. Yeah. Listen, it does make sense on a few different levels, including the one that you just pitched me again, but again, Mitch Marner with the salary cap going up and the players reading the tea leaves, they're no longer negotiating in a flat cap pandemic. We know where the numbers going and they're going to, they're negotiating to hit that number in three or four years. It's not the current number here. I just don't see Nashville bucking up for over a hundred million dollars. I could be wrong, but again, first time for everything to blow there, their salary cap, their internal salary cap in that market would be very surprising to me. But Sorrows is what going to be 30 years of age next year, is already 30. Did he turn 30? I think so. Oh, no, he's 29. No, you're right. Okay. So, you know, he's going to be looking for a six-year deal for sure and you prepared as a lead fan to give him, you know, I don't know, seven, eight million dollars. He's going to get one to get up there around the corner hella buck number. So, you know, that's a big commitment also moving forward. And where does that leave Joseph Wall? If by chance this guy figures it out and gets healthy here, you know, you're totally writing off wall. So the question is, you know, how big of a splash do you want to go in that next year? Do you want to go for the home run guys and get your six and a half, eight million dollar goldie, or you want to try to bridge it enough where you can still see if Wall can get his act together physically? Laurent-Bros-Swarz, my guy. I'm down with some Laurent-Bros-Swarz, like I get, I don't think, yeah, you're not playing in the leanest all-mark waters. Strollers? Yeah. Like, I feel like that's where we're headed. We'll see, though. Lots to discuss this off season. Kipper, thanks as always. All right, guys, have a great day. And we'll see what transpires with the Oilers tonight against Dallas looking forward to it. Yeah, pressure ramping up. Thanks, Kipper. Have a great day, guys. You, too. Nick Kipperios, real Kipper and Born, our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom. Visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. So, yeah, UC Sorrows have been very good. He is almost 30 years old. It's 5'11", he's played the most games of any goalie each and every of the past three years. Yeah. He's faced the most shots against each of the last two years. He just completed a good season, but the worst season of his entire career. Yeah. When are you going to start selling me on the trade? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. Okay. I'm not. That's I don't. Like UC Sorrows would have been nice. Like just in a vacuum, like UC Sorrows is the tandem partner with Joseph Wall. But yeah, if you're, if UC Sorrows is the linchpin of a Mitch Marner trade, both guys are getting extensions like you're not trading for a guy that has the same contractual window as Mitch Marner and then waving goodbye to him at the conclusion of the season. Like, no, no, you're trading for UC Sorrows because you think he can do this for another half decade at like an exorbitant price, making him not just like the one A to Joseph walls one B like the one yes and Joseph wall the two and then like maybe taking Joseph wall and trading. I don't know. But yeah, no, it's for all the reasons that I outlined as well as others that I'm not even thinking about it just doesn't make those are all like you brought like facts and logic and reasoning, I'm going to bring the real reason why you should not do this trade. It's the Leafs. And there's just no world where you trade Mitch Marner for a goalie that that guy doesn't turn into a pumpkin and he's basically new Marazic and Mitch Marner is yucking it up on Broadway and Nashville with Ryan O'Reilly and they're talking about how happy they are. The other thing Kipper mentioned, I don't, I'm not running away from the Sorrows, but the other thing Kipper mentioned there is the Forsberg of it all. Yeah. I think the teams are very cognizant of their internal caps. I was thinking, I'm like, okay, do you know how much time is left on that Forsberg deal all the time? It'd be palatable if it was two years left and he's going to get his kick at the can. No, it's one of those deals that like you go to cap friendly and it doesn't all fit on the face. There's the arrow. There's six seasons left. 2930 is what it wraps up at eight five, which is, you know, like it might not be the best contract in the NHL, but it's maybe the, it's like the most underrated great contract in the NHL. That pesky of great contracts in the NHL. We don't talk about it, but yeah, the Sorrows of it, just to get back to the Sorrows, I, I find it so hard to pull the trigger and be a buyer on a goalie. All the guys that I do that on, there's no way you could pry away. And Sorrows, if we were having this conversation three years ago or two years ago with him on this five million dollar ticket and you get three runs at it and you get to reevaluate, you could easily talk me into it, but a one year deal where you got to pay the guy immediately terrifying to me. This isn't me saying you see Sorrows going to fall off cliff either. The other part of this as well is that you don't want to not say you don't want to get the Nashville goalie or the Nashville defenseman. Generally speaking, both those guys have been pretty good, but it's very, very different playing goal in Nashville. And I don't even say this is like a market pressure thing. It's just, you see what the least of look like now they have tightened it up a lot more as of late. No, but the previous seasons they had not this year, yes. And the Preds have been the most like, again, it's been, it's a key tenant of their org is like, we will play on exciting games and have good goal tending. So I am also a little wary of taking the guy who was operated in such a great system for him as well. No, there's, listen, goal tending, who knows? It's magic and pixie dust and even the big rain, goalie, gurus, they tell you they think they know, but they don't know, honestly, no offense to those guys. They don't know. But here's what I do know. Like 30 year olds don't perform nearly as well as like mid 20s, 27, yeah. When you're a goalie, like more physical space that you occupy, the better, yep, 511, like you're Darren Pang level, like you're zoning in on Darren Pang, holy jumping. Also, yeah, when you've faced the workload and like if we're just using, well, say percentage is the most obvious area where he struggled this season, but like, let's do an advanced set, goal saved above average, 20, 21, 20.9, the next season, 23. Last season, 30 this season, five, five goal saved above average. He was still good. Like 906, save percentage was good. But if you're acquiring UC Sorrows for Mitch Marner and signing him to an elite level contract, you want more than a guy that's just good. You want guys that's like, oh my God, agreed. And I don't know if he's that guy anymore. Yeah. I also just think the way, I guess there's goal time, great point by you, I will just say the way curses work is that you're not winning a Mitch Marner trade. There's no way it does not become an automatic home run grand slam loss. If it involves a goalie is a key piece, you can have a goalie is like some filler prospector, but key piece of the trade, gold tender. There's just no way that guy's ever going to be what he's supposed to do if he's traded for Mitch Marner. Just like we have to live in reality. That's the reality. Yep. The reality is our next guest has a sports Emmy at Nan Burke, host of MLB Tonight on MLB Network and the Cinephile podcast joins us next as the fan morning show continues, Ben as Brent Gunning sports net 590 the fan. Fan morning show sports net 590 the fan, Ben and his friend gunning. I'm an award winning radio host, okay? I once won an award as did everybody I think in sports media when the Raptors went on their championship run. It was like, you're all employees of the year. So listen, I'm an award winning radio host. They didn't give me anything for that. At Nan Burke, I imagine gets a sports Emmy or maybe it's just one. He can maybe share it though, like maybe he gets his day with the Emmy and say it's mine. Yeah. At Nan Burke, host of the sports Emmy award winning MLB Tonight on MLB Network joins us now. How's it going? I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. I'm going to be a great fan of the NBA. 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