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Five On The Floor: Miami Heat/NBA

After Kyrie's success, should Miami Heat look for depressed assets?

Duration:
31m
Broadcast on:
25 May 2024
Audio Format:
mp3

Kyrie Irving had undeniable talent, and was readily available, but he also had baggage. A lot of baggage. The Dallas Mavericks took a shot and they're within two games of the NBA Finals. What players could be available this summer that might just need a change of scenery -- like, say, Miami?


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A daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA. Featuring Ethan Skolnik, Greg Silverander and Alex Toledo. Plus others from the Five Reason Sports Network. Alright, welcome back to Five on the floor here today's floor plan. I'm Ethan Skolnik. And following Ethan, Jay Skolnik and Five Reason Sports. We got Greg Silverander. You can follow him at Greg Silverander. So, we've been watching the NBA playoffs and there's a huge surprise. The Dallas Mavericks are up 2-0 in their series. And on the verge of going to the NBA Finals. They're doing this. Even though last year they basically tanked their way out of everything at the end. They were not even trying to win games at the end of the year. After they acquired Kyrie, they were sitting people. They were not projected to be in the top four this year even with Luca. They had stretches of the season this year where it didn't look great. They made a couple of additions at the trade deadline. Daniel Gafford, PJ Washington, key additions. Not stars, but they added them to their stars. Something we've talked about before. But the big thing that they did that got them there is the Kyrie Irving acquisition. And so we're going to talk about this in the context of the heat. Not that any of us were calling for the heat to get Kyrie at the time. I think both of us were not on board with that. We knew that obviously the heat would have some issues with it considering, you know, some of the things that had gone on with Kyrie, not just the vaccination stuff, but also, you know, him tweeting out the Amazon link and everything that went along with that. That it just did not seem like a good fit, even though he was a Duke guy, and even though I know that at the beginning of his career, the heat had a lot of affection for him, let's just say. There was as a basketball player, but it's worked. I mean, there's no way around this. There are two games away from the finals. And again, coming out of one of the toughest conferences in recent memory, like the fact that the Dallas Mavericks may be there is remarkable. And so Greg, I'm going to say this, okay? This is an organization in the Miami Heat that has made good use of depressed assets in the past. They anchored their teams in the late '90s with a guy and Tim Hardaway who had slipped to third string in Golden State. People talk about, you know, Hall of Fame, Timmy now. That was not the case at the time, okay? He had knee injuries, he'd fallen out of favor there. He was playing behind B.J. Armstrong, not even like Chicago B.J. Armstrong, but post-Chicago B.J. Armstrong. He came to Miami and he totally redid his entire game. In fact, there were issues, you know, they would talk about the issues between him and Sprewell in Golden State. So there were some questions about that stuff as well. He comes to Miami and he and Alonzo Morning, again, were the anchors of some very good teams that did not make it to the finals, but again, very good teams. And of course, now Tim is in the Hall of Fame. Jamal Mashburn was another guy who people remember him passing on the shot, right, to Clarence Weatherspoon. But also, he did some pretty good things in Miami. As their third guy, and he was a guy who was a depressed asset to a degree, even though he was a top five pick, because of some of the issues with Jimmy Jackson and Jason Kidd when the three of them were together in Dallas. Miami's done this kind of thing before. They've gone after the disgruntled stars. We talk about Shaq, obviously, Braun to a certain degree. Bosch, Droggetch, even, was disgruntled at the time. But also they've gone after guys who maybe were not thought of to be at the level. They were before. They haven't done it lately, though. So should they start looking at this again? There's a couple things here. I think the Dallas Mavericks, just as we start with the Kairi conversation, it's less to do about Kairi and more about I think Dallas is a really good formula for what you can do around the margins of your two anchors and completely revamp a team and get to a conference finals. They're basically looking at becoming a finals team. They didn't even make the playoffs last year, right? And then Derek Lively is how they eventually get their draft taken care of. That's an interesting group there. What they built, I think that the Heat should definitely take notes on kind of what was done around a duo that seemed like they didn't fit last year. And the Heat have their two anchors. So when we're talking about depressed assets, they don't need to go and find necessarily an anchor that's a depressed asset. But if you're talking about players around the league, I do think that this is one way that they can maximize the spending power they do have in trades with the assets that they do have. Because we talk about that they can be outbid by a lot of other teams. Well, I think looking at some of these guys that we'll talk about here in a minute are guys that maybe they could buy low on just from a value perspective. So that is something that I think that they should look at. It's going to be a very situation by situation kind of scenario with these different guys. But it's time to do that, Dallas did it and it worked. And I think that in this, in today's NBA, if you can get a leg up via trade on a guy who can play then, you know, above his contract or to his contract again, that's what you want to do with maybe other guys on your roster that are not currently. Well, the key difference here, you can talk about building around the two anchors. But the key difference I think that should be noted is that the two anchors on Dallas are elite scores. True. Okay. I mean, the lead anchor is the elite score right now. And the second guy is, again, for whatever you think of him personally or whatever. And, you know, I've had my own interactions with him when I covered Cleveland for that one year. And, you know, again, he's been a difficult teammate at times. It's not just with the media. It's been a difficult teammate. There's been a whole bunch of stuff behind the scenes, but he can score. I mean, he's a bucket getter. We know that he's done it at the highest possible level. He did it to win a finals. And so I guess the question becomes this. It is easier, neither Jimmy Butler nor Bam out of bio is an elite bucket getter. Okay, Jimmy, Jimmy has morphed into that at times in the postseason. We don't know if he can still do that. But they're not scoring does not come easily to the two of them. The way that it comes to Luca and Kyrie. They're two of the five most gifted scores in the league. Really just by pure scoring ability. It is probably easier to find compliments to that than it is to find compliments to Jimmy and Bam, right? Because the thing is, you know, we talked about Tyler being that compliment, right? But again, when you're dealing with scoring compliments, they can be who are not elite to the level of, say, Luca and Kyrie. They can be taken out in certain ways and rendered less effective, less efficient and all that. And of course, some of it is availability issues with Tyler also. But see that that's the thing is that the heat that had to build this thing in an unconventional way. Because they're two best players are really grit and defense guys first. And so, you know, they do the other stuff. And then again, Jimmy has elevated at times, you know, at times that to a really high level. And Bam has shown the ability to do some of it. But again, they're never going to be in the class of Luca and Kyrie scores. And so adding a gafford, adding a PJ Washington, like if you added those players to Jimmy and Bam, that doesn't help you that much. I mean, it helps it like gafford would help Bam just have some more size there and all the rest of that and another finisher, but they probably get in each other's way. PJ Washington makes more sense. We talked about him with the trade deadline. And I guess, I guess with the rosier trade, maybe you could have targeted PJ Washington instead. Again, I think heat officials would say that it wasn't really available to them in that way and they needed the point card more and they were moving Kyle and all the rest of it. But I think that is when we talk about rosier construction, that is one of the struggles of this particular group, is that you're building around two guys that aren't that easy to build around. And that's just the way it is. And so I think that that's something that should be considered. But on the other side of this, I do want to get into some guys who might, if you're going to keep the cop to who might be able to be acquired and give you some of what you kind of wanted from Tyler, I think, and may if he's still here still want, or maybe from rosier. But to me, that's kind of where this discussion has to go. It's okay, who's the Tim Hardaway? Like, let's just, who's the Tim Hardaway? Like, who's the guy out there who's been relegated, but it's because of coaching. It's because of the rest of the roster. It's just because of the situation. It's because maybe he's bored. I mean, who is the guy that you're going to do that with? Because again, the Donovan Mitchell thing, we're going to probably do 35 more podcasts until he signs the extension. But it does appear at this point that he's probably going to sign the extension. All right. Speaking of extending your options in terms of how you get heat content, check out autograph. This is a new app, and this is where real fans get unreal rewards. Use the code five. Make sure you sign up for that. That unlocks everything for you. Then you can sign up and check out the heat. You can check out the dolphins. You can check out the other Miami teams. We know some of you are a heat fans. We root for other football teams, other hockey teams, et cetera, outside of South Florida. Check it out. It's the autograph app. You can find it at autograph.io or at autograph on the App Store or the Google Play Store. Use the code five. Here's just one example. Okay. And there's still time for this. This is not expiring until, I think, the afternoon of the 31st. They put a BAM out of BioSign jersey framed on there. Roughly a $500 value. If you accumulate enough coins on there and they will explain to you how to do this on the app. It's very simple. You will become eligible to win it for 13 bucks. Okay. So we're talking about 500 down to 13. That's the kind of thing they offer there as well as tickets and more. So check it out. It's the autograph app. Go to autograph.io. We're putting out this podcast on the 25th. So you got six days to get on there until they're going to be giving this thing away. So make sure that you sign up now at autograph. All right. Also, I do want to mention prize picks because people have asked me it's back in the state of Florida. Use the code five FIBE. Play the lineups on there. I can tell you it's going a lot better for me than previously. The game is almost the same as it was before. Okay. The only difference is you can't go up to six players and you can't do flex plays. Everything else is basically the same now. They've got the tacos. They've got on Tuesdays. They've got the goblins. They've got the demons. It's all there. So just go check it out. Use the code five. Sign up. It is again legal in the state of Florida. Hey, it's Ethan Schollner for five on the floor in the five reason sports network. As you know, we heard from Pat Riley recently. Everybody has an opinion on trades, free agency, who they should keep, who they should give up, who they should get. Well, whatever it is that Riley in the heat do, you don't want them giving up too much and getting too little, right? Well, the same is true of shaving products and that's why I use Harry's shaving products. I love the way to handle. I love the way it looks and I love the quality of the shave. I have a little bit of trouble growing out a good beard. So better to just shave it off and make sure that it looks somewhat professional. These are German engineered blades made in their own factory. So they stay sharp longer means it can use them longer and also they've got customizable delivery options for scheduled refills as low as two bucks, half of what you pay for other big brands. 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At Moss Adams, that question inspires us to help people and their businesses strategically define and claim their future. As one of America's leading accounting, consulting and wealth management firms, our collaborative approach creates solutions for your unique business needs. We leverage industry focus insights with the collective technical resources of our firm to elevate your performance. Uncover opportunity and move upward at Moss Adams dot com. All right. So let's look at some of these guys. Now we did a whole episode on Trey. I believe I- He's one of them. Right? I mean, he's now, he's not a depressed asset like Hardaway was, he's still like an all-star level player. He is. And he would cost a lot. And he's depressed because I think of team sort of lack of overall success, fit problems, which is something we talked about with some Heat players too. And the other guy who may be depressed in that in the way is his back court mate, which is Dejanti Murray, who, you know, the Heat could have gone more harder after they went after Rosie, who likely cost them less than Murray did the time. But those are two guys. I'll throw all these out in a pot here and then you kind of get into it. Right in Ingram is another one, seems to be depressed. C.J. Right? C.J. McCollum. A couple of guys in New Orleans. Now, C.J. They've had him playing out of position for the past couple of years. He's not been a good playoff performer the last couple of times he's been out there either, which is odd because earlier in his career, he was pretty good, actually had some moments for Portland. Both of those guys though, the problem with Ingram is what you're going to have to pay him. And I think that's a big reason why he's depressed asset. But also it does seem like he and Willie Green did not really connect. He wasn't playing fourth quarters of playoff games, even with Zion Hurt. So that's, again, depressed asset, but not depressed financially, which is part of the issue here. Zach Levine is another one we talked about a lot. I don't like the fit with him. I've said that over and over. No, thank you. But they got better when he went out. I just, you know, but again, Andrew Wiggins in Golden State. Number one pick to glue guy, okay. He was a glue guy on a championship team, but it does seem like whatever the personal issues he's been dealing with in recent years and other things, he's not been the same since that championship. I don't know. I don't know where you'd be with him. And then a couple of others here to mention, I'm not going to call anybody in Phoenix at the press asset, Brad, they're not going after Bradley Beal now when they didn't before. KD is not a depressed asset, he's still an elite player that you'd be going after. Is there anybody else that kind of jumps to mind? I mean, Laurie Morgan is not a depressed asset. No. Laurie Morris. Right. So Jeremy Grant, maybe he could be in that category just because of where he is in his career compared to where that franchise is, you know, you know, he played a game in April and I think in four seasons, you were that I saw that stat like he's shut down for one reason or another. I mean, he's a lot of it is circumstantial. He's paid a lot. He'd be a great fitness to pay him. But yes, Jeremy Grant is another one. I'm trying to think of teams that went deep into the playoffs. Denver doesn't really have one. Michael Porter Jr. is not a depressed asset. They may need to trade him to rebalance the roster a little bit and get some backward scoring and he could be moved. I don't think KCP is going to be available. But again, you look at teams that are out there that maybe are in contending type spaces. Is there anybody on the Clippers to you that will qualify as that? Paul George will be a free agent. So I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I guess in a really big swing, you could say Kawhi Leonard is a depressed asset to some degree, but I mean, then we're talking a mega trade, you know what I mean? And I don't know that they're ready to go that direction. So, and then the rest of that roster doesn't really fit the bill to me. So it gets more limited. Let's see what happens with Minnesota here against Dallas, you know, where as we talk about Dallas, if Minnesota goes out, what changes do they need to make, although I do not think Miami would ever be interested in Carl Anthony towns, he may be a player that eventually would get moved. And just you want as many deck chairs on as many of these ships to be moving. And then you need to just be able to get involved in pounds, right? And so that's what I think you hope for. These are the types of players that I think heat fans should be thinking about when they talk trades, but it's all of them come with their fair set of question marks and challenges and not all their clean deals necessarily. So we've kind of, we've definitely identified a group of players that fit that bill, but there could be guys we're not even thinking about yet that become maybe not depressed assets, but players that don't fit in their situations anymore. And then the heat can get involved there. So there are other options out there. I think of everyone that we just mentioned. I like Dejante Murray. I think that that's interesting. And I do like Brandon Ingram. I don't know what the cost would be there, but that is the kind of trade where you're taking on a really talented player that does have some question marks, but the heat have done that before. Yeah. But again, you know, one of the problems there is that they don't want to give them the full max. And I can't imagine Miami would want to either. So but there may not be anybody who does. I'll mention one other just because his name is out there again. And the one of the depressed assets that worked out the best for a team, another team that's still in there, even though this guy has been hurt, is Chris Chas Prozingis. And now you look at Washington, potentially moving Kyle Kuzma, and you say, okay, well, you could get some scoring punch there. Kuz comes with some baggage himself, I think. I don't know necessarily that Kuz is the most winning player out there, although they did win a championship of the Lakers with him as probably the third best player, third of fourth best player, him and KCP, probably on that team behind LeBron and NAD in the bubble. So he's another one that potentially you could look at. Then there's also like the recent high picks. And you know, there are some guys that just are just not, you can't help, like a Marvin Bagley, right? Like people were talking about Marvin Bagley, number two overall pick. One of the great blunders in draft history, I'm surprised that more is not said about that. I mean, literally went right before Luca and Trey. Right. And Sacramento's had a bunch of those over the years, by the way. But again, another team took a shot at him and Detroit didn't even have any use for him. They ended up in Washington. So there are some of those guys like a Wiseman type, then you're talking about more, not sort of stars with baggage or bad situations, but you're talking more about reclamation projects. Yeah. Their results with reclamation projects have not been great because typically results with reclamation projects are not great. I mean, the Greg Oden experiment, the Eddie Curry experiment, typically when they brought on these type of guys, it's just that, you know, you start, whether because of injuries or sort of the residual effects of previous injuries or attitude or whatever, it just doesn't end up, end up working. You know, Marcus, Marc is another guy that we should probably monitor, right? That's an interesting, I think the Memphis situation is just interesting in general because they're expecting to go from like zero back to 60 quickly next year in a loaded conference, right? But would you see what Gigi Jackson did this year and you get Morant back for a full season? You kind of like, okay, wait, there are pieces there. I mean, that was a team that was as high as a two seed the previous year. So yeah, I mean, I think a Marcus Smart is somebody that could be interesting to Miami. I don't think he's a lead guard anymore. I don't think he's a starting guard, but maybe as your third guard, you could do worse. I mean, shoot, there's guys like Gabe Vincent out there. That would be a reclamation project, right? After what went on this past year, I don't think they would bring him back right now. I expect to see Gabe back in Miami before his career ends, probably as a minimum guy. But those are some names too. And again, I know those names are not going to excite people. That's not the third star, but I do think that you have to look at some of these players and say, okay, you're not going to find a Kyrie necessarily. But if you have a guy who's got raw talent and just in a bad situation, you know, I mean, and then there's the minimums where we're going to talk about more, but like they get Kelly Ubray production out of somebody next year, that somebody probably would have been in Miami if game had come. So I think we'll start to make our list a little bit more, but I think what we wanted to do in this episode is sort of more talk about the mindset of this. And they really would have looked at what Dallas was doing and said, okay, they're turning that into a finals team. I mean, most people don't even like the coach there, okay? So I think most people would be like, okay, all right, you're getting Kyrie, you're taking a flyer. They let Brunson go, right? They didn't reside. I mean, they didn't do the smartest things along the way here. And they kind of, they've got, but what's crazy is Luca and Kyrie seem to connect. And I don't know that people would have thought that, particularly with Kyrie's sort of issues connecting with others and not frankly, Luca's issues connecting with others and the ball dominance of both of them just on the court. And they just put, they put guys around them that are just like, okay, it's just going to be the two of you, okay? And yeah, they've got a, they've got a trigger happy, you know, guard and Tim Hardaway Jr. too. But like I'm saying, like they've just basically said, you do your thing, we'll take care of the other stuff and then like Derek Jones Jr. and a gaffer at PJ Washington, we'll make the corner threes, right? We'll defend, we'll rebound, okay, gaffer gave him vertical spacing. And it just is a good point that there are some things to be taken from that team, but I'll close where we started. The biggest problem I'm going to have is scoring the basketball and I, and so it's, if you're going to find a depressed asset, you kind of have to take a flyer, maybe on an inefficient scorer and hope you can improve his efficiency in Miami. And I'm starting, and then if I keep going along this line, I'm going to start talking myself into Zach Levine and I just don't want to do that. But it probably is the archetype of the type of layer that you could buy low on, at least in terms of assets, maybe not in terms of salary, and you can say, okay, here, you know, maybe he would give you a little bit more, we can make him more efficient or coach and get him into better position and all the rest of that, possibly. I like the Dejanti Murray idea better, but if they're keeping, if they're, if they're trading trade, they're not, they're not trading Dejanti too, I wouldn't, I wouldn't expect right now unless they're planning on going totally young. So any closing thoughts? I'm with you. I think that there's probably going to be names we haven't even called on yet and like that's part of the fact that we're doing this on May 25th and there's a whole offseason ahead. I just think that he fans should keep their eyes open in their ears open because you never know what situation turns sour all of a sudden and there's likely to be players we didn't even mention. I mean, we didn't even get into the Draymond Greens of the world, you know, the Clay Thompson's of the world who is a free agent, but you never know how guys can get places. So there's just, there's a lot of names out there, but I do think that the Dallas situation is just one where you could see that they went from being a team very much like Miami that was on the fringe of the playoffs and right outside of the lottery or in the back end of the lottery and now they're almost finals bound and it can happen. So you just have to make a couple right moves. And the big thing to take into consideration here too is you can get at the press asset. It can work for a little while, but sometimes it doesn't work the whole long term. Russ Westbrook is a guy they probably could have taken a look at in various situations here over the past couple of years. But then there's others like, you know, you talk, Colin Sexton was kind of at the press asset after Cleveland traded him has become an interesting player there who fits the heat mentality. So there will be more guys that we talk about here as we're going forward and I think that again, what Dallas has done, what Boston did with Porsingas, the only thing is I want heat fans to be honest with themselves. There were a lot of heat fans that were on the Kyrie train, okay, at least a little bit. Nobody was, I don't want to say nobody, there are a couple, but the most part on heat Twitter, Porsingas was not a target for most heat fans because again, everybody was obsessed with Dame and I understand I get that, but let's not be like, oh, well, they should have pivoted. Heat fans didn't want them to pivot, they didn't want them to pivot, okay? And it wasn't until Rosier became more available to them in late January, early, you know, whatever that was that they actually did make more of a pivot to that. So again, let's, you know, let's, if you want them to go after the press assets, then maybe they shouldn't wait on the Mitchell extension, you know, all the way until it actually happens. And you know, just like, okay, you know, what happened here and now there's nobody left to go after. Always things to consider, we'll get into more of it, check out Autograph, use the code 5FIVE, BigBrotherIronWork.com, of course, check that out and price picks with the code FIVE. We'll be back with more episodes over the weekend. Again, we will start getting into draft coverage pretty much at the start of June. So we'll have a lot of episodes related to that. Have a good one, everybody. Thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the Fivers and Sports Network. After all, someone needs to listen to my dad. Your word is formaldehyde. Can you use it in a sentence? As you're sitting in your basement, you hit your vape, but then your mom walks in, freaks out and starts listing the toxic chemicals you could be inhaling into your body like formaldehyde, which she singles out because it's the same chemical used to preserve your uncle Rico's funky smelling taxidermied fox, formaldehyde, vaping can expose you to toxic chemicals like formaldehyde. No need to spell it out any more than that, brought to you by the real cost and FDA. What's next? At Moss Adams, that question inspires us to help people and their businesses strategically define and claim their future. As one of America's leading accounting, consulting and wealth management firms, our collaborative approach creates solutions for your unique business needs. We leverage industry focus insights with the collective technical resources of our firm to elevate your performance, uncover opportunity, and move upward at MossAtoms.com. 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