[MUSIC PLAYING] We're back on Connect Central. Dan Reacho, Satyar, Shaw, Connect Central 4, Ensign, Pacific, Vancouver's premier Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, and Jeep Superstore. On 2nd Avenue between Canby and Maynard, Ensign, Pacific Chrysler, Dot, CA. So as mentioned earlier, we do have a little bit of a schedule change today. We had Manny Malholtra off the top of the show. So the open, which is usually the opening of the show, is happening a little bit belated. Let's get to it. [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to the open. That's your home. Are you too good for your home? Answer me. The open where we give you the latest on the Vancouver Canucks and our take on it and sat rumor season has begun, not just for the Vancouver Canucks, but across the National Hockey League. Yes, we're in the final four. But that means what, two, three carry the 128 teams are planning out their off seasons right now and what they could do and the Canucks are among them. There's a couple of names. They were linked to today, one being Martin Neckache with the Carolina Hurricanes. And of course, Yaspari Kokanyemi as well, both by Elliot Friedman. And the Neckache rumor is also tied to the Elias Patterson trade rumors or trade offer that happened towards the end of the season from Carolina and Friedman mentioning yet again that Neckache was a part of said package that was being offered by Carolina to the Vancouver Canucks. So it didn't mean that the Canucks weren't interested in Neckache, I guess. It's just not in a deal for Elias Patterson. No, and I think that's obviously, if the Canucks do acquire Neckache, it was not going to be for Elias Patterson, right? The question is, what is it going to take? Now, Elliot mentioned perhaps Philip Peronik being something that they look at. Here's the thing that I find fascinating. Who has more value? Is it Philip Peronik or Martin Neckache? Because I've seen people say, well, if you're doing Neckache for Huronik, the Canucks have to add something. And the others say, well, if you're doing Neckache for Huronik, Carolina has to add something because his neckache is a winger, right-handed winger, does play center, but has moved to the wing mostly. And Huronik plays a premium right-handed defense position. So who actually has the more value? Are they the same or is one more valuable than the other? - I feel like it's probably pretty close, but for me personally, as much as I normally side on the idea that the defenseman has more value in trade than a forward, especially a winger might have, in this case, I think there is, there's a feeling that there is a untapped potential to Martin Neckache here that maybe makes his a little bit stronger, whereas Phillip Ronik might be more of a finished product where he currently is. - Yeah, I think that that makes more sense to some degree, right? But that's the one I wonder about. I can see it being a one for one, perhaps, but even so, I just kind of wonder about the overall value for it. And given the way Carolina has operated, would they be looking to straight neckache for another defenseman they have to pay money for? Are they looking for cheaper cost control players that have more analytical value? Is that essentially then what they've gone after in the past? - It's strange the whole situation. I mean, as we know, and have been an analytically inclined organization, and that leads a lot of their decisions, they've just made a GM change. Don Waddell resigning from his position. Eric Talski is the interim GM, and I would say he's probably the favorite to eventually get the full GM tag there. That just happened today. But with neckache, there seems to be a value that the player thinks he's worth, and a value that the team thinks the player is worth, and that doesn't quite match, and that's where the rift has always been, and why neckache has constantly found himself in trade rumors through his young career, despite putting up more than 70 points last year, having another 20-plus goal season this year. - I mean, the talent is undeniable, but if he's a player that's asking for eight million a season right now, I don't know if the numbers line up to that kind of a contract. - Well, yeah, I mean, I was listening to Canucks Talk with Drans that had to give me a tree on with Jamie Dodd, and they were mentioning that neckache evolving hockey has been like eight years, 8.7. I almost spat out whatever I was drinking at the time. It's like, what, 8.7, like I'm not even, there's no way I'm touching 8.7 million for neckache, and I'm not even sure that's the, I can see, I've seen other models kind of happen in the six million range or whatever it is, but let's say you're a neckache, and that's what you're looking at, like eight times eight, you're looking at 8 million plus, 'cause you feel like, hey, I can play center, I can play wing, I'm right-handed, had a 70-point season last year, not this season the year before, and that he feels like, as a 25-year-old, that's the strategy that I should be in. I can see Carolina looking at that and saying, no dude, like you're a five and a half, maybe six million dollar player, and you're not gonna bridge that gap. If you're two and a half to two million apart per year, it's not gonna get bridged, like that's a massive golf between the two parties. So how different would it be in Vancouver? And that's the thing I find fascinating, 'cause if you're looking at eight times eight, I'm not sure I'm down with that, you know? Like I like neckache, I don't like him for that type of money. - You're buying a lot of UFA years though, if you're going eight years, right? Like that's a thing, you're buying six UFA years. Six UFA years, he's up for UFA status and a couple of years time, he's currently 25. So you're looking at a player that, again, six, two, good size, good speed, good puck skills, has what a lot of people feel is untapped potential. Maybe his offensive numbers suppressed a little bit in Carolina with the way that they play. And maybe not always having the full trust of head coach Rod Brindomore there in Carolina as well. I think like the idea that he's worth eight plus million is simply in the idea that there is another level for this player to find still. And so you're playing, you would be essentially paying for something, paying for potential future production rather than what the player has shown to this point. But, you know, he's had, he took a step back this year only 50 plus points, had 70 the year prior. Like, yeah, you're paying him more based on the idea that he could be a point per game guy, but that's not who he's been for the majority of his career to this point. - No, exactly, so the way I look at Nick Cash is he's probably a year away from getting the money he wants. So if next season he gets 70 points, probably guess what he wants. 26 year old, 70 points center, you know, winger if he gets 30 goals, I think that sets him up. So I think he's so close to having one more year where he probably guessed the money that he wants, but he's not there yet. Would you be okay with trading for Nick Cash if all you're doing is kicking that can down the road one more year where you bring him in, some to one year deal, maybe go up to Arb, send him to a two year deal. And essentially all you're trying to do is get through this next year and then you can make a decision on the player the year afterwards. Like, there is a way to go about it in that sense too where you're not committing all the money, all you're doing is kicking that can down the road next year year. - Potentially renting the player like you rented a Philiparonic in this scenario. - And you can still trade him after a year, right? Where it's like he has two years left and it's, hey, maybe it works on you extend him beyond that and he's here long-term or you have another decision to make in two years. I think that's a way to look at it as well. Like, and that's kind of how they approach to it for owning the first time around when they acquired him, right? It's like, yeah, we'll see if we extend them, but let's see what happens first over the next year. - What it tells me though is like Nick Cash is, I mean, I think the world of this player, right? It's very easy to like him. Again, the size, speed combo combined with the pucksgills make him a very intriguing talent. But what it tells me, you know, we've heard, and you mentioned Genssel earlier this week on the show after the Canucks were eliminated from the Stanley Cup playoffs and that could be a name that they really try to look at in free agency. Nick Cash's name coming about here. It feels like, you know, the Canucks whiteboard of plan A players to add to their roster the top six mold type of player that they could be looking for. Like that, this is essentially for me. This is plan A of the off season. Just like we talked about with Patrick Alveen yesterday, you know, they really want to find a top end player, a top end offensive talent to add to their group and a name like Genssel, a name like Nick Cash. Like that's essentially what I'm taking away from this. It doesn't mean they're going to get these players. It just means this is the type of player that they're really looking for right now. - Well, one of the things that we've talked about too heading into this year, and when the season ended, there's the sentiment a lot of Canucks fans have that this core has peaked with this current group right now and that there isn't an avenue for him to get better. And one of the things I would push back against is I don't believe that to begin with. I think there are ways you can improve your team. Yeah, maybe not next season, but you can set the ground to raise your ceiling. And then next year, the year beyond, you really start taking off. Like, so to me, there are avenues. But one of the things that has happened, and somebody just texted in this in as well and saying at the beginning of the season, the Canucks couldn't buy or steal a trade, but now there's a valid trade in almost every player on the team. And that's one of the things I was trying to get across to people is like, the value of so many individual Canucks players has, I would say skyrocketed, but it has increased. They now have players that are palatable where before Garland, you couldn't move them. Now, I'm sure you could if you really wanted to, right? Now, a better situation is different because of the blood clotting situation. But obviously, he went from being a player you couldn't trade to, you wouldn't have a very hard time moving him. And the same thing goes for a number of the players like Corona is the value the same, or is it slightly less, slightly more? But he's not a player who's regressed significantly value wise for you. So the Canucks actually have better trade ships, even Niels Hoaglander, right? Like his value has increased exponentially from where it was next season. And I'm not sitting here saying trade all these guys, but it's like you have, you now have bullets that you can use to improve your team. And if there are players available that fit the mold to what you mentioned, top six guys that can play with Patterson and play high up the lineup, you should be exploring those avenues, especially for guys that are under the age of 27. And the thing I find, you know, really fascinating about this is the Canucks have cap space, right? About 25 milli, 24 and a half to fill out five spots, three D spots and two forward spots. And I've already given some money to some, you know, 13 forward, six, seven defensemen types as well, right? So it's five boss for 25 million roughly. It's decent amount of money, but that goes pretty quick, right? - Yeah. - But what if you're able to ship some of that money via trade to address your needs and then all of a sudden, now you have more money to play with to improve your team? And 'cause the other player whose names come up is Kolkini Amy, right? - Yes. - And I don't like the idea of trading for Kolkini Amy. I don't. But if you're trading Kolkini Amy and you're moving the K about the other way, you're trading 4.8 million, 4.8 and change for 4.75 is essentially a neutral deal of capwise. Well, if you're not keeping a Lindholm, you make the deal, say, Mckayev for Kolkini Amy, now you have your third line center. You haven't increased your cap figure at all. Now you have to just add a couple of forwards on the wing and fix your defense. And all of a sudden it looks a lot easier, right? So I think if you can trade somebody off your roster to address the need, capwise is stay cap neutral. I think that would give this team a chance to improve their roster significantly from last season. The challenge is making that type of a swap 'cause making it trade for Kolkini Amy, for instance, comes with a lot of risk. He has six years left on his deal, 4.8 million. He's a center, he's good defensively, but the offense hasn't quite been there. But if you feel like he can turn out to be something and you're not keeping Lindholm and you're moving Mckayev to address your third line center role, all of a sudden you have a lot more money to play with to improve your team on the wings and on the defense. Yeah, Kolkini Amy, just 12 goals this past year is signed until 2,182. That's, I think when his contract might end, the year 2,182. It's a long time before his contract ends. It was strange when they gave it to him and it still looks strange now. But I kind of get the Canucks potential interests if it is one of those things where, like you mentioned, it's maybe dollar in, dollar out. William Mckayev for Eastbury, Kolkini Amy, or they're taking a chance on a player that might be seen as a cap dump by the Carolina Hurricanes of some sort. Let's say if they do end up landing Jake Genssel, which I know Pierla Brun said, there seems to be mutual interest between Genssel's camp and the Carolina Hurricanes and continuing that relationship. So I think it's a really interesting name. Again, it's a bet on we can get more out of this player and we can see them being a third line fixture for us, get them through the thick of their prime and at the very, like there's, you have outs if it goes really sideways with Kolkini Amy, or he just finds a level where he can bring you back three and a half, four million dollar value and you just sort of live with it for a while. I mean, like to me, there is ways that it can work with a player like Eastbury, Kolkini Amy, even if we're not the biggest fans of taking on that kind of a deal and that kind of term. It's not like he's 31 years old right now. Like there's still a lot of room for improvement for how young he is. - So to me, if I'm trading for Kolkini Amy, I'm not doing it with the hey, if it doesn't work out, we buy him out. - I do it if I have conviction that he's gonna work out here. - Yeah. - I'm not sure I do, but obviously, like we said, these guys have done a really good job with their player evaluation and who they see fitting in and they have a really good sense of these things and Kolkini Amy's still a young player. You see the upside for it, but I wouldn't make this deal if I'm like 50/50 of him working out. Like it's too much money. They already have the OEL buyout money as well, right? And I know he's under 27, so it's a bit different with the buyout, but you really wanna be in a situation where you're looking at eight years of paying Kolkini Amy to be here. - Like it would have to go really sideways. - Really sideways, right? - Even the idea that Carolina was going to buy him out, I thought it to be a little bit ridiculous given, like, okay, yeah, 12 goals, but he had over 40 points last year, you know, you can live with a 40 point 22, 23 year old making $4.8 million and still hope that there is something else for them to find, you know, I didn't think Pavel Zaka was much of a player and then, you know, he's found himself in Boston and looks like he's kind of become a decent player. Like he's still got some developing to do and there is potentially, you know, a player that can at least bring you close to what you're paying him and it shouldn't take a lot, especially with the cap going up as much as it is projected to go up over the next couple of years, it shouldn't take a ton for you, Spari Kolkini, to be able to fill your third line center role and, you know, at least bring close back to value of what he's being paid. - Yeah, and I think if you, if that's how you're doing it and you feel good about it, I can buy into it, but if you do that, you can't keep Lindholm, right? You can't trade for Kolkini and have Lindholm, it's one or the other. And again, if you're able to make that, the only way I would make that deal is if you're moving money out. So if you're able to move McKayav out and get Kolkini for instance, now you have more money to play with on the wings, right? Like you have more money to find two wingers, it's either you find two for Patterson if you really wanted to, or you find one for Patterson and somebody to replace Suter on the left wing with JT Miller and Brock Besser. Like you have the money to do that, plus improve your defense. - So, Kolkini and there was also the tidbit about Lindholm, Frieden saying that there's a full court press and Vancouver to keep Lindholm from, you know, players talking to Lindholm and being like, "Yeah, you know, how much you like it here? Yeah, you really love it." You know, if you have interest, like we'd love to keep you around. But what I make of that, and I want to get your take on it too, obviously, but you know, Canucks clearly want to stay strong down the middle of the ice. You know, I don't know if keeping Lindholm is with the idea of, you know, playing him him or Elias Patterson on the wing. I think it might be to continue having your three strong centers through the middle of the ice. What did you make of that idea? - Yeah, I think it's one of those things that this organization, if you look at what Rutherford has done throughout his history, he's always prioritized having depth down the middle. Like you win with depth down the middle. You win with having two to three centers that can really push the pace, right? So if they don't keep Lindholm, I think it's very clear they're going to add a center. They feel like is a legitimate like second line slash third line center. So we would view Teddy Bluegrass what, a third line slash fourth line center. - Yeah, and he's not under contract. - No, he's not. - You have, right now you've got Miller, Patterson, and Nils Oman, and he has Pew Souter. - Pew Souter, but I mean, I don't think you want to head into next season as Pew Souter being your third line center. - Right. - Like, I mean, hey, you can start the season that way, but then look to address your needs as the year goes on. I mean, that's always a way to go about it as well, right? But it means you're going in not being as strong as you had hoped that you would be heading into the season. And I think it's pretty, pretty clear with them going after Lindholm, they're looking for a center that's more of the two slash three. You know, like, hey, they'd love to have a guy who's more of a two slash one like Lindholm, but that's going to cost a lot of money. And can you find that center on the free agent market? And that's where it gets a little interesting. You look at the free agent market this year. There aren't a ton of centers that fit that bill. We talk about this a lot, right? Like even there's some higher end ones, but let's say you don't bring Lindholm back, you're not trading for a center. And obviously Monahan's probably not coming here. You're not going to pay him to be your third line center, right? And so you're looking at guys like Alex Wenberg, Stenland, Connor Carrick, and Travis Boyd. - Yeah. - Like those are the guys you're looking at. And yeah, they're probably better than Blooger is, but how much better? And considering how light the free agent market is. And I don't know about Carrick necessarily, but I think Wenberg and Boyd, you can look at it. And Boyd had a couple of good years. Had an injury riddled year this year, then it wasn't quite as productive. Former Bank of Rookanuck added as well. Going back to the North Division here where the Knecks claimed them off waivers. - I've completely forgotten about that season set. - I know. I still remember it because I had done so many games and had those playoff games. Those games and the playoffs with the Knecks and Flames when they were eliminated was some of the most, you know what? Let's just, you know, freaking out. You wouldn't go down that road. - At least the only thing I choose to remember from that season is when Grandma Dubas was yelling at us. - Oh, she was very mad at us. - She was very mad. - She was very mad at us. - But that's another story for another day. - I know. They even got to the all or nothing, right? Anyways, that's a different story for a different day. But it's clear if you look at the free agent market, there aren't a ton of guys there. So if the Knecks can't keep Lindholm, it's the same thing we're talking about with the wingers. Like obviously, you know, there are a lot more wingers available in the free agent market and we'll see how that all goes. But it seems to me that if they're going to address their third line center situation long term and if it's not Lindholm, they probably would have to come be a trade. - Yeah, and that's where a name like Miss Barry Kokinemi potentially comes in. Michael, take Kokinemi, so Kokinemi, so Carolina can get Gensil instead of you, would be not great. - Well, they have the money. Like, Carolina doesn't need to trade Kokinemi to keep Gensil. - No, they don't do it. - No, they have 27 million in cap space. If they really wanted to keep him, they can do it. So like to them, like, I think the Gensil thing isn't tied to Kokinemi necessarily. Like Gensil's going to go where he wants to go. - Yeah, Gensil's going to go where he wants to go. Like, the thing that Carolina maybe has is they can give him eight by eight, whereas somebody in free agency would have to give them nine by seven to match that money, right? - Yeah, no 100%. - 20% difference. - Exactly, like it's a huge, huge goalful. - So that's something that you have to keep in mind. And Carolina does, they've still got to do some work on defense. They've still got Orloff, Slavin, and Brett Burns. But beyond that, Brady Shea and Brett Pesche are unrestricted free agents. And that's kind of interesting about, when we talk about Hronik and what he is looking for in a new contract, we know where the numbers are. They seem silly. That's the other part of this. Like Lindholm has got a situation right now where he's arguably the best center on the market, right? And then there is, I know Hronik is restricted, but he's a year away from unrestricted. So it puts him in a pretty advantageous spot for where he is currently sitting. - But the thing about the D-market this year is like, there's actually like some pretty good options out there on D, it's unlike most years in free agency where there's basically zero options on defense in free agency this year. - Dude, there's a lot. - It's so funny, right? 'Cause like, I see people mentions like, well, if you trade for the Pironic, good luck for replacing a right hand defensemen on the free agent market and 99 times out of 100, that's absolutely true. - Yeah. - Not this year. This is not the year that's true anymore, right? Like, just going through the defensemen, there's about like 15 right hand defensemen that are legitimate, if not, you know, second parrot, like four or five guys, you know what I mean? Like there are a lot of guys that kind of fall into that range. So this is the year that if you are gonna be steadfast on the number for Hironic and you're not gonna blink, this is the year to not blink and make that move. Like if you don't feel like you get them side to side to a deal that makes any sense, you're not gonna find a better free agent market to find whether it's long term or short term, finding some right hand defensemen options. And maybe it's not an option that you're gonna find that's gonna be here long term, but you can, again, kick that hand down the road for a couple of years until Willander's ready, you know what I mean? So I think there are avenues here for you to address your right hand defensemen situation far easier than previous years in the free agent market. - Yeah, I'm kind of curious in a name like Brett Pesche. I know people still think he's gonna get around five, maybe even six million, which seems ridiculous to me, but he only had three goals and 13 points this year, but he's quality defensive defensemen. There's a lot of interesting names that are headed to market in free agency on defense. So that's something to keep in mind when thinking about the future for Phillip Hronic. The Canucks, you know, they got a lot of work to do. It's pretty obvious, but they've also got some options here, Sat, not like other years where you're dangling this fine line of very little cap space, like they did maybe last year or where they had to buy out all of rekman Larson just to be able to have a little bit of flexibility to do some things or even years prior, where, you know, when they made the OEL deal, they had to include Louis Erickson and Jay Beagle and all those in Antoine Rusell just to make sure that the deal was able to happen. It's not like that, like they have flexibility and there are options out there for the Canucks to execute on. - Absolutely, there are, right? There's a ton of options here for them. And that's why being bold this year is something I would love to see happen, right? And we'll see what happens, like, you know, yesterday we spoke to Patrick Alveen, or you spoke to him more and more accurately. And the thing he mentioned was, if we want to keep a guy and the players want to stay, usually we find a way to make it work, right? And he felt pretty confident about a few guys. So if they're able to keep guys at a number, that makes sense, okay, we'll see if that happens. But if you can't, like this is the year to be bold, man, there's so many opportunities available for you. We know this organization is not afraid of making moves. That's kind of what I want to see happen this year. It's like, don't be satisfied with bringing the same group back. You may have a chance of bringing a better group back. You can make some bold moves. - I do want to, I know we're going to get to Atlanta for our, but I did want to mention this one text. Somebody was upset that we were mentioning and talking about Martin Nick Ash. Why do you guys always mention Euro players as potential acquisitions? Have you seen all the Canadians on Edmonton, Dallas, and Florida? I guess you guys are happy not making it out of the first and second rounds. Carolina does great in the regular season, but are duds in the playoffs. I mean, they've made the conference final a couple of times in Rod Brendan Moore's career. But also, like, where's Mika's advantage ad from? What about, what about our Temi Panerin? Is Sasha Barkov Canadian? I don't know. He might be the best two-way center in the game right now. Is he Canadian or not? What about Miro Hayskin in? Is he, is he Canadian? I can't, I can't. Is Leon Dreycidal Canadian? Matias atkholm? - Dreycidal, yeah. - I mean, how many more names do we have to go down? What is such a ridiculous thing that we get way too often in the text message inbox and it frustrates me because, yeah, it's dumb. - Well, sometimes, okay, like, would I like to see more Canadians on the Canucks? For sure, right? I mean, I'd like to see more Canadian players on the Canucks, right? And the other part about, you know, when we're talking about players, hey, I don't control which players the Canucks have interest in or have had interest in, right? And if it comes out that a player, the Canucks have interest in said player who's from said nation, that's not us saying this to trade for this player. It's, that's what's out there. You know what I mean? And so, it's not necessarily about us trying to say who does she go out and sign. It's more about us trying to figure out what they're going to do. Now, there's room, of course, for us to give opinions on what we would do. We like to see happen, but what we really try to do on this show more than anything is try to be as realistic about what's going on as possible. Let's not play hypothetical armchair GM for the sake of it. Let's talk about what's out there for real and look at avenues that they can make it happen. Like, how's that interest in these players? How high is that interest? Is it enough to make a trade or not? We'll see. But yeah, I mean, I'm told that listen, we've seen a lot of Canadians, Canadians on the Canucks in the past and they haven't won a Stanley Cup. We've seen with a lot of Euros, they haven't won a Stanley Cup. So in Vancouver, they've tried pretty much everything over the past 54 years and none of it has led to a Stanley Cup. So eventually something's going to work. I don't know what that mix is going to be, but all I know is in 54, 4 years, we've seen rosters full of Canadians, full of Euros, full of Russians, and it hasn't led to the Holy Grail. People are begging for it. It's Dan Reicho, Satyarsha coming up. Landon for I was going to join us. He's been an analyst for us during the course of the playoffs. He will join us next on Canucks Central.
