[MUSIC] Hello and welcome to In the Booth here on Sportsnet 650, your official home of the Canucks. I'm Brendan Batchelor, as always joined by Randeep Janda for this weekly show and the final episode of the 2023-2024 Vancouver Canucks season Randeep after the Canucks fail in game seven to the Edmonton Oilers in spite of a valiant third period comeback, three to two the final score and the Canucks head into the off season having taken some major strides in the right direction. But also feeling like they let an opportunity slip away in that second round series against the Oilers. Especially when you look at the fact that we were on this show a week ago, talking about the fact that they led that series three games to two, but they can't get it done. Their core group gets a lot of important learning experience and now we head into the off season with a bunch of really interesting story lines to digest and talk about. >> A very bittersweet moment for the entire fan base, the market, because it's sweet. You had an experience that you'll remember for a very, very long time. That game went against Nashville, the pop in that building, the positivity was unbelievable and that continued on for two rounds. But and you saw growth in specific players, the expectations around the league didn't have much in store for Vancouver, but they smashed through all of that and had a great year. And it's bitter because it could have been more. If there are a couple of things that go in Vancouver's direction, whether it was injuries, whether it was the power play, whether it was just getting a little bit more in game seven from this group, it could have been a lot more. So yeah, Batch, it's one of those things you look back at the season, we'll be doing ours, I'm sure the players will be doing theirs during the off season and the fans will be too. But it could have been just a little bit more sweeter with the way that this playoffs went. >> So we're going to get into the end of season media availabilities, which the organization conducted on Thursday and our takeaways from all of that later on in the show. We're also going to get to a bunch of listener questions. As I said, this is our last regular show for the summer. But we will do emergency shows or surprise shows if the Canucks make big trades or big free agent signings. Like I'm sure we'll be back probably around the draft or free agency to have another conversation about things that have changed with the Canucks Randy. But for the moment, let's look back at where it went wrong for the Canucks and what the organization, both the players that will be returning, the coaching staff, management, whoever you want to talk about, what they can learn from the experience. Because I think that's the most important thing coming out of this is, yes, it would have been great to win game seven or win game six even. Yes, it would have been great to be talking about a conference final against the Dallas Stars right now. That didn't happen. And in order to make sure that the same thing doesn't happen next time, the people within the organization need to grow and need to change and need to adapt and need to prepare for the next time they get an opportunity like this. So when I say that, when I say where did things go wrong in game six and seven against the Oilers, what is it that jumps to mind first of all for you? I think there was a few moments where you had moments where your leaders and key players could have probably wrestled the game back and leaning into some of those uncomfortable moments. And I'm not, I know it feels like a blanket statement saying key players, but there's certain guys that had a hell of a series and a playoffs, right? J.C. Miller tried his very best. But to me, I felt like the Vancouver Canucks in those key moments in game six and seven, when they could have carried the puck, when they could have, you know, had the puck on their stick. And whether that's Patterson or whether that's Quinn Hughes, but not limited to those guys, I didn't feel like that team was comfortable with the puck on their stake in those games. It felt like there's certain moments where they just wanted the puck off their stick. And that could be the first time experience of feeling that heat, feeling that pressure, really forcing the issue in the first and second period. And you just didn't get that from Vancouver in either game six or game seven. So I think it was your first time really playing at this level, at this stage in the playoffs, and the lean in or the lean back a little bit. And for this team, there's certain key moments in those two games where I felt like they lean back just a little bit. And unfortunately, they leaned in much too late in game seven. So I think there was an element of just, you know, when you're trying to make that play, but you're trying to rush it a little bit, you're trying to get that puck off your stick. So I think the attitudinally and just a mentality, they were not comfortable. And you could see that in certain moments in both of those games. Yeah, and this is something that Rick Talkett preached all year long. And let's be honest, they did a good job of this in much lower stakes games, which is meeting pressure with pressure. Like we know we go into that dressing room all the time. It's on the wall in the dressing room, meet pressure with pressure. It's one of the talkatisms, the staples of the way that they want to play. And when they got into those close out games, those opportunities where you're playing an experienced team, right? The Oilers have a lot more playoff experience in recent years than the Canucks do. And you've got a chance to, you know, as someone like Nikita Zadorov might say, step on their throat, really put the finishing touches on them, close out the series, have that killer instinct. That's what the Canucks were lacking. And I don't know if you can necessarily fault them for that, although, you know, it's certainly fair as a fan to be frustrated or disappointed that they didn't have that element in their game. But we talk all the time about teams needing to, you know, lose and learn how to win before they have success. And with the exception of the bubble playoffs, which multiple guys talked about on Thursday were very different because you weren't, you know, traveling between games, playing every other day, like all of these things that the Stanley Cup playoffs are really all about were not present in that bubble playoff. They learned exactly how hard it is to win these games and how much harder it continues to get with every passing game and every passing round. And we saw them miss a close out opportunity against the Nashville Predators in the first round in game five, too. So, yeah, it's about meeting pressure with pressure. It's about, you know, wanting the puck on your stick, as you said, in those big moments, it's about executing at that high level in spite of the stakes. And I think that's what this group probably needs to learn most from sort of a bigger picture perspective is you need to execute the same way in the first preseason game in September that you do in the last playoff game in May or hopefully June going forward in years to come. And you're right, this is a team that in game six, certainly maybe less so in game seven, although through the first two periods, they were certainly the second best team and then had that tremendous push late that came very close to tying the game. Let's be perfectly honest. But you know, especially in game six, they just didn't have that killer instinct. They didn't seem like they were the the desperate team, which you understand they wouldn't be the more desperate team they weren't on the ropes like the Oilers were. But you know, I can understand at the same time, while all of these things are true internally within that organization. And externally, there will be people very disappointed with the fact that this group wasn't able to close it out. And a big part of that is also, you know, manufacturing that urgency and the playoffs you shouldn't have to because seven games, winner take all the first one to four wins. But this goes back to a conversation that that's not only you and I had, but also we asked the team about that in March and April, when you're playing teams, that maybe don't have the same level of urgency that you have, how do you manufacture it? And sure, Edmonton had more urgency. It was a do or die game for them in game six. But for Vancouver, mentally, you have to be in that spot. And I think that comes with experience, right? Look at the final four teams that have made it to the conference finals. You've got Dallas, of course, a veteran group that has been to that spot before, has lost in the Western Conference final and heartbreaking fashion going back to 2019 and had multiple chances in the playoffs to get to that spot. Edmonton, we've talked about how they've had multiple cracks at it. They haven't been able to climb that mountain. You go to the East New York's been a competitive team for many years. And last year, Florida was a cup finalist. So, you know, sometimes you have to develop that scar tissue of understanding what it takes, understanding that you don't have three or four kicks up the can. You're going to have maybe one, maybe two. And that urgency, I think for 11 newbies, really, at the playoff level, that's only a thing that you can develop with experience. So it's a hard truth to reconcile. And there's going to be a lot of players on that Vancouver Canucks team wishing they could have a redo. But it's not how the playoff hockey works. Beyond that, though, you know, I think there's a learning experience here for all of those players. Some of the guys in that room that are veterans understand that they've been there, done that. You know, it's not a one person sport. It's a it's a group of four lines and, you know, three pairs of defenseman and extras that have to come together. And you have to have that collective mentality. But this was something that I think this group has this core because there could be a lot of changes in the offseason. But this core group of players that experience playoff hockey for the first time, this is something that they have to take away and say, all right, next time this happens, we got to come correct in a, you know, a killer instinct and bring that killer instinct, which you need in the playoffs. You need that cutthroat nature. Yeah, you absolutely do it. And there's a few things that come to mind when we talk about that and talk about learning what it takes. And, you know, there were a couple of things that Patrick Alveen said at the media availability on Thursday that stood out. One of them was he hit practice habits again, which we haven't heard in a while from this organization. It was something they talked a lot about when Boudreau was let go and talk it arrived. But it's clear that they think their group can reach another level in terms of how they prepare. Alveen also thought that he said that this group wasn't prepared to play meaningful games in February and March. And that's another big factor with this season two, which we haven't talked about a lot because we've been so sort of focused on the playoffs and what's happened in the last few weeks. But not only was this the first taste of the Stanley Cup playoffs for this group, it was the first taste of a proper stretch run, you know, leading the division, trying to hold off the Oilers, which they ultimately did successfully, if only barely, and their form dipped quite a lot after the all-star break. Now, there were some factors to that that were out of their control. Like Joshua got hurt. He was a big play driver for them all year. Demko got hurt. And this kind of comes back to what Jim Rutherford said at the start of the year, where they needed everything to go right for them to have success. And a couple things went wrong. And their game trended in the wrong direction collectively as a group, when that happened. And I think that is a valuable part of this learning experience too, is, you know, you had such a great first half of the season. And that's what sets you up to be in the position you were in the second half. You also have to capitalize on the stretch run and on, you know, continuing to play well and have your game trend in the right direction and come into the playoffs firing on all cylinders, which they certainly didn't do. Now they were still able to be within a goal or two of moving on to the conference final anyway. So I think that says a lot about the depth and the talent and the ability on this roster. But, you know, it wasn't just playoff experience that this group learned from. It was a lot of different things that they learned from. And now the test is going to be, how can they apply that going forward? Because it's one thing to say, oh yeah, we learned a lot and oh, we understand how hard it is now. So if you understand that, then the next time you're here, what are you going to change? How are you going to adapt your individual game? How are you going to adapt your collective team game to make sure that even though you understand how hard it is and what it takes, you're able to elevate, you're able to do the right things, whether it's taking care of your body on off days, whether it's how you manage your practice work ethic and workload and all of those things, how you play down the stretch so that you put yourself in the best possible situation to have success so that if you find yourself in this spot at some point in the next few years, and let's be honest, you're right. You don't get to this spot every day. In fact, game seven of the second round probably will be the furthest some of these guys ever go in the Stanley Cup playoffs in terms of, you know, potentially someone leaves the organization or the team doesn't have as much success next year. You never know what the future holds. So it's one thing to go through the experience, but how are you going to change? How are you going to grow? How are you going to adapt so that the next time you find yourself in a situation like this with an opportunity like this, you don't let it slip away like you did this time. I think there's a key, a couple of key things and, you know, playing tired and Rick Talkett mentioned that in the second half of the season of our guys are going to have to learn how to play tired and one of the key factors and all of that was sticking to structure. I thought the team did an excellent job of that, especially in the playoffs of not giving up much. That was something that they were able to do. But the other thing is like breaking through and finding that extra energy, most notably offensively, were they able to, I think there's two things that were really lacking in the playoffs for this team was, you know, composure with the puck, not to say they're giving away the puck, but being confident with the puck. We didn't see that so much as we talked about. The other thing was, you know, just that confidence to make that game-breaking play and you don't want to run and gun with a lot of these teams that Vancouver played against Nashville. If you try to run and gun with them, they play fast. So it was very much a tactical, you know, display by Vancouver to say, "Hey, we can grind this game down. We can play that style." And they did that versus Edmondson. You don't want to run and gun with that team either, but I think there were still moments in that game. You're looking for that special moment and fatigue played a factor, but learning to find those moments, conserve that energy, and still, you know, be confident and make that play batch is something that this team really lacked in that round. So this is going to be a learning experience, but beyond that, I think there's an element of, of course, you make it to the second round, you make it to a game seven, and you look at the teams that are left in the playoffs, Vancouver, it fared well against most of them, right? This was an opportunity missed. And you talk about, you know, some of those players, and I thought JT Miller summed it up very, very well saying, "Hey, I had when I was a young player in New York and Tampa, I had a number of chances to play in the playoffs." And then five seasons go by, and now I'm 31 years old, right? Five years, you don't make the playoffs, and time can move really quickly in this league. So you can't take it for granted. And that's the key thing here. And I thought Patrick Levine's mentality, and when he was speaking, and he said, "We're not satisfied with losing our final game. It was only round two." That's a mentality to say, "Hey, that was fine. You know, we got through it. Of course, we're disappointed, but we have expectations now with this organization." And losing in round two is below expectations. So you better bring it next year, essentially. And he's going to try to improve the team as well. So from a fan's perspective, that's exactly what you want to hear. And internally, that's, you know, a clear message to the players to say, "Hey, if you think you did well this year, guess what? The bar is that much higher next year. So we got to learn from our mistakes. We got to learn from our inability to find those game-breaking moments and maybe playing tired or maybe playing a little hurt. You got to be better next year." So I thought the message was very, very clear from the GM. Yeah. And there's a couple of things there to touch on. I thought, you know, while that standard was set by Alvin, there was some accountability from him, too, in particular, when he was asked about Ilya Mikayev. And he said, "Look, it's not Ilya Mikayev's fault that he had to be a top six forward on this team. It's my fault, essentially saying, you know, we needed to get more guys in here so that he was put in a better situation to succeed." And that kind of, you know, transitions to conversations about the off-season, about what they're going to be targeting and how they try to, you know, I don't even know if improved this team is the proper word to use because of the number of guys they're likely to lose in free agency. But, you know, to keep this team in the fight, to give them another chance to be competitive, to get into the playoffs, and to see what they can do after that. And, you know, that also, all of that conversation ties into the struggles for offense in the playoffs, both at five on five and on the power play. And I think there was a lot of accountability around the power play, too, around how they needed to execute at a higher level. And, you know, you look back at a series against the Edmonton Oilers, where six of the seven games were decided by one goal, and you went three for 23 on the power play, like, you know, even doubling your output on the man advantage, means you probably win the series. Like, that's how fine the margins were in that series against the Oilers. So, you know, there are players that need to be better. There are guys that need to execute at a higher level. There are systems questions around, you know, what do they need to do to produce more offense? And are they doing enough to do it? And then there are personnel questions that you can put to the GM, too, around what guys do you need to bring in that can maybe score at a greater rate can help complement your top players, so that, you know, again, as we're talking about from a player's perspective, when you find yourself back in this opportunity, you don't let it slip away. Organizationally, you have to look at it this way as well, which is, we need to improve or we need to, you know, find players at key parts of the lineup that mean that when we have these opportunities, if we get a situation in a game seven again, where we've got a four minute power play in a scoreless game, that we're going to capitalize on that and we're not just going to say, well, it's those players that didn't execute, we're going to take it beyond that and say, okay, what's the coaching staff doing to give those players the best chance to succeed? And what's the management group doing to give the coaching staff the best players to deploy in those sorts of situations as well? And there might be a lot of questions on, okay, if you have this group of players, a number of free agents that are really potentially could not, you know, may not be coming back to Vancouver, you know, there might be some uncertainty and Patrick Alvin was asked about that. He answered questions on that. Some of the players are asked about that as well in regards to their contract situation. But I will say this about the management group. They have, since they've been a Vancouver and especially this past year, they've been able to address and really find players that can outperform their contracts, whether it was, you know, a Sam Lafferty right before the season began, whether it was a Casey to Smith and upgrading that goaltender position, whether it was a Nikita Zodorov at the trade deadline, Elias Lindholm, and you go further back to Kota Joshua, you name it, picking up players at the right time and for the right amount of money. This is going to be something that, you know, the management group is, they understand the assignment at hand here. It's not simply down to the players. They have to find the right players, whether it's at the collegiate ranks, whether it's at the CHL or European leagues to address that. So I think, you know, there's a lot of uncertainty with this group based on who may or may not return. But I think this management group has shown that they have the ability to find the diamond in the rough. And until they show us otherwise, batch, you know, whether there's departures, whether there's, you know, some potential trades, they've built up their street cred, so to speak, to say, hey, leave that with us. We'll find the right people. But there's no doubt that I think it's going to take a collective. But there is cohesion from, you know, the president of hockey operations and alignment, I should say, all the way down to the players, which is something that we've talked a lot about in this market to say, you know, is there is their responsibility? Is there shared responsibility? And for the first time in a number of years in this market, I feel like there's a shared responsibility from the top levels all the way down to the players to say, Hey, we're in this together at a shared accountability to that look, we didn't get it done. There's a lot of reasons why we all want to be better next time around. And we're going to do our best to make sure that we are. So now that we're talking about the roster construction, let's sort of look ahead to some of the tough decisions that Patrick Alvine and his management group have here. And I thought, you know, sort of alluding to what you're talking about, Alvine mentioned a couple of things that I think really stood out to me. One was talking about leaving spots for younger players who have developed well in Abbotsford to come in and try and make the roster next year. And whether that ends up being, you know, Lina's Carlson or Vasily Pod Colson or Arshteep Baines or, you know, whoever you want to mention in that conversation, it's clear that in order for this team to have success and in order to improve their roster at the top of the roster, they need to have cost savings further down the lineup. And so that is going to be a real part of where this organization goes from here is if they want to go sign a Jake Genssel or they want to extend a number of their pending unrestricted free agents, they may be able to do that. But at what cost and how do they balance out, you know, the way they deploy their overall lineup and the way they construct their overall roster. And so, you know, that that was an interesting conversation to and then alluding to what you're talking about with the pro scouting, Alvine said, we have to be confident that we can go out and find the next Dakota Joshua. And, you know, that's using an example of Joshua. I don't know if that's necessarily an indication of whether they'll prioritize bringing him back or not. And I think some of the reports out there indicate that, you know, the priority, if anything, is like the the size and the physicality that they have with some of these guys. So we're looking at Joshua, we're looking at Myers potentially at Zidorov. If he wants to stay and they can make the dollar amount work as the guys that they're probably prioritizing going into this off season of of trying to bring back and trying to keep here. But, you know, you look at all of their pending free agents, whether restricted or unrestricted, you know, they're they're going to have to bring back a goaltender. She loves is restricted. Smith is unrestricted. On the back end, Haronex restricted, Cole Freedman Myers and Zidorov are all unrestricted up front. Blueger, Joshua Lafferty and Lynn Holm are all unrestricted. So we're not talking about a team that's going to have all these guys back. And these are going to be some tough decisions for Patrick Alvine and his management group. And part of what will go into those decisions is, okay, what does the pipeline look like in Abbotsford? Who do we think could fill in in this spot? So let's say they decide they have to move on from Joshua because his price is too high. Well, can Vasily pod Cole's in come in and elevate his game a little bit and play that role for us. Or if we do find a top six forward, you know, let's just say Jake Genssel because he's the name on everybody's lips right now, just bumping McKayev down into a third line role offset the loss of a player like that. So those are the conversations you'll have. And then from the pro scouting perspective to saying, okay, maybe we've got to lose one of these defensemen. Maybe we've got to lose Teddy Blueger or Dakota Joshua. Who do we have in our pro scouting department or who have we targeted in terms of our assessment of guys around the league that we can go and bring in at, you know, a relatively good price. Guys, they signed last year, you know, like Teddy Blueger, like pew suitor guys, they brought in on bargain deals that gave them really good minutes and were a big part of the success that this team had this year. This is why all of these things are so multifaceted. It's not just Oh, signs that orov he was great in the playoffs. It's what's the opportunity cost of doing that? And what are the upsides and downsides of keeping him at an inflated rate as opposed to letting him go? But maybe being able to find a cheaper option that hasn't broken out yet, but could break out when put into your team environment with the culture that you're building and the structure that Rick Talkett has put in place as well. Well, that's really the thing though, right? When we talk about all those UFAs, the first thing that comes to mind is, hey, you're losing players, quality players. And yes, there's a number of players on this team that I think for the right price you bring back, you don't think about it twice, but the right price matters here because once you take the names off the board that you know what's also available, a lot of cap space. This team has options to say, all right, even though some of these guys did an unbelievable job last year, whether that's a Dakota Joshua, whether that's a Teddy Blooger. I'm going to throw Tyler Myers into that mix too, because he was money last year this past season, playing a physical style, picking up more points than he has in a number of years. But what happens is you also, you know, you're going to have a lot of money to play with. So your options are not limited. You can kind of play Tetris with your cap in a good way to find out, hey, you've secured Elias Pedersen. You know what you're going to be giving him. You know what Quinn Hughes is locked in for. You know what JT Miller is locked in for. You know what your number one goaltender Thatcher Demko is making over the next couple of years. You can pick the best possible options for your team. And here is the key in my opinion. You want to make sure that you are getting players that are, you know, making, they're not on thank you contracts. They're over and outperforming their contracts. And some of these players that are currently UFAs for Vancouver, they're coming off a career years. And I'm not to say that they can't have years like this again, but do you want to pay a premium for, you know, something that might be a high water mark, whether that's in the key does it or off, whether that's a Dakota Joshua. In today's cap world for the right players, you're willing to pay that maximum. And I look at those players to be Queen Hughes, JT Miller, Elias Pedersen, and of course Thatcher Demko. But even with goalies, we know age curves are a real thing. Outside of those guys, what is too much? What is, you know, outperforming your contract? And that's why I think this year is really unique to Vancouver to say, hey, I understand those guys played really well. But what is your walk away number? And then if you're going to spend that money, is there somebody in free agency that can be a top line winger for you? And is that money better used? So there's going to be a lot of turnover. There's going to be a lot of discussion. But I really do, you have to be careful here. This is not a cup winning team. You have to be really, really mindful of providing thank you contracts to individuals that haven't won the big prize yet. So that's why I think this year in this management team is very ruthless in a good way. I mean that where they acknowledge that, hey, the bar is way higher than what you just achieved. So thank you contracts and, you know, providing contracts that might be a little too rich for their blood is not something that they'll consider at this point. And I think that's very important for this team at this point in their build. Yeah. And I think something that we should mention too here before we wrap up this conversation on the team building going forward is there are a lot of guys in this conversation that have a lot of leverage because you're right. They had career years. They're going to be valued around the league. There were lots of other teams. You know, they were one of the final five teams playing in the NHL this year. So there were 27 other teams that were watching what they did and watching what their players did and will be coveting some of those guys themselves. So those players have lots of leverage. They're going to have options. If they get to unrestricted free agency, they're certainly going to have offers. But what the Canucks can offer, both those players and other potential players that they look to bring in is an organization that has turned its culture around that is a desirable place to come and play again. We all saw and experienced how great the atmosphere was in Rogers Arena in the playoffs. And we all heard the players talk about how much it meant to them and, you know, how they finally realized how important hockey can be in a place like Vancouver when the team is good. That will have not gone unrecognized around the league either by players that are looking for new homes and new places to play. So this isn't just a situation where, Oh, whoa, is me. The Canucks had so much success. They're now going to lose all their guys because they price themselves out. And, you know, as the key does it or I've kind of pushed back on to the media availability. Like, where do we get these numbers from? Do we pull them out of the trees? Which, by the way, like he had a hall of fame level media availability in terms of endearing himself to the Canucks fan base on Thursday. But it's a two way street here. And just because your players might leave for greener pastures doesn't mean that you can't replace them with players who are just as good, if not better, who now will want to come to Vancouver because of what Rick Talkett and this organization have been able to do. No doubt you've got a Jack Adams winner. You've got a Jim Gregory award finalist. You've got what I think should be the Norris Trophy winner. And a lot of people feel that way. You've got a guy that was in the running to be a Vesna winner prior to his injury. You've got another player in Elias Pedersen who's on his game. When he's on his game, one of the best players in the NHL. And JT Miller, who's probably the one of the most respected players in the NHL for the way he plays the game, that is enticing to a lot of free agents, a lot of players. So they will be able to attract the talent. But Batchit really comes down to, you know, dollars and cents. It's about making it work in a cap world. It certainly is. All right, we've got to take a break here on In The Booth. When we come back, we'll get into the mail bag for the last time this year. We got lots of great listener questions from you. So we will break those down and discuss all the topics that you want us to talk about here before we're done for the season. We will also conduct our final Rose ceremony of the year as well. It's all still to come here on your official home of the Canucks sports net, 650. Welcome back to In The Booth on Sports net 650. We are your official home of the Canucks Brendan Batchelor and Randeeb Janda with you. This is our last show of the season before we get an off-season break to recharge and get ready to come back in September and do this all again. You will hear from us at some points over the off-season, though, if there is breaking Canucks news. All right, Randeeb, let's get into the mail bag. We got some great questions from listeners as the Canucks season draws to a close. And let's start with one from Pakmama on Twitter who says, "What do you think about there not being an apparent injury to Hughes in the playoffs and the disconnect between his view of his performance?" He thought it was pretty good as opposed to others who thought it was lacking. And here's the thing I'm going to say off the top. I believe that there were multiple players at the media availabilities on Thursday who said they weren't battling injuries when they actually were. And, you know, we'll never know the severity of some of those problems, but let's put it this way. Quinn Hughes may not have been injured by the definition of the word, but I certainly don't think he was 100 percent Randeeb, especially after the physical price he had to pay in that series against the Nashville Predators. For sure, there was definitely a toll being taken on the level of hits. And even in the Edmonton series, he got hit pretty good a couple of times, which, you know, accumulation of those, not only in two playoff rounds, but the entire season, it will take its toll. When it comes to Quinn Hughes play, I think from an offensive production and a goal scoring perspective, of course, he didn't have that same output that he'd expect from him that he had in the regular season. But I do want to focus on one stat specifically. When Quinn Hughes was on the ice, five on five, the shot differential favored the Canucks plus 16. When he was not on the ice, it was minus 76. That's all you need to know about Quinn Hughes and when he's on the ice. Sure, the raw numbers were not there. But as an guy that can influence the game, he was still other worldly for this team in the playoffs. So yes, it's not the same pace. And there was some learnings, I think there from Quinn Hughes. And it's, you know, can he, you know, do better? I'm sure. Yeah, of course, he's learning. He's a guy that believes in coming back stronger the next year. But let there be no mistake, he is still, you know, when he's on the ice, he is still usually the best player there. And he dictates the game in his own way. And that shot differential stat to me is wild because remember, this team was not shooting very much in the playoffs. But that speaks to the impact that Quinn Hughes can have. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think a key part of this question is talking about the disconnect between his view of his performance and others that thought it was lacking. I think the way I would look at that is I think his performance was pretty good. I don't think you can say it wasn't. It's just you would have liked to see him take his game to yet another level in the playoffs. And I think that's what the value of experience will allow him to do in the future to understand that, you know, what allowed him to have a lot of success in the way that he played and even scored goals and produced offense during the regular season. Well, it was that much harder to do that in the postseason. So what is he going to do next time to make sure that he can level up when, you know, the level of competition levels up and the amount of attention he gets levels up and the amount of physicality he has to deal with levels up. That's all part of the learning experience, too. So it is fair to say that Quinn Hughes had a good playoff. It is also fair to say that he could have been better. And I think he will be better next time around next question comes in from Brian who has written in with great questions all season long. We always appreciate it, Brian. He says with how many free agents we have the Canucks overachieving in terms of their expectations this past season. Do we think next season could be a step back before another few steps forward and Randy, my answer to this is yes. And the reason isn't because of anything that may happen in terms of how they're going to build the team. Like I am confident in management that, you know, they're going to do their best to improve this roster. I am confident of the coaching staff that they're going to analyze where things went well and where things went wrong and make some tweaks and changes to their systems coming back next year. And I believe in the core group of players ability to learn and improve from this experience, I just think the Canucks got a lot of good bounces this year. And I don't know how many bounces you can expect season over season. So, you know, there was the narrative early in the year, a lot of luck, a lot of PDO conversation. And you know what that bore itself out because some of those numbers started to trend in the wrong direction later in the year. They also were incredibly healthy. If you look at injuries to their core players, it's Demko. And that's basically it until Besser had to miss game seven with the blood clotting issue in his leg. That is not something you can count on every year. There were also a number of guys on this team that had career years offensively. That's not something you can count on every year. On top of all of that, the Canucks are going to have a lot more respect around the league next year because teams are going to be more prepared for them and understand what they're trying to do. And they're not going to catch as many teams off guard or by surprise. So, it doesn't necessarily mean I think the team will get worse in terms of how it's built or in terms of how their top players play. I just think a lot of things went right for them this year. And that's not to take anything away from the way that they played because they earned that. But at the same time, you know, that doesn't happen every year. And sometimes a single injury can completely derail your season. We saw that a couple of years ago when the Vegas Golden Knights completely missed the playoffs and then won the Stanley Cup the very next season. I would say, and I agree with everything he said, but one thing that I think is something that we haven't really talked about too much is Patterson coming out and saying he's been bothered by that injury since January. If you have a player that plays 75 to 82 games and he's near full strength, and he's the Alias, Patterson, we see at the beginning of the year, or therefore just more consistent. I think the ceiling on this team is much higher. So, yes, you're going to, you're going to maybe have not as much puck luck. You might not have the same depth, but do you have a top five to top 10 player in the NHL, a consistent player next year? You know, that can change your fortunes and at least keep you at that level. The other thing is looking across the division, Vegas is going to be relevant. They're going to be a good team. Edmonton will be, and then LA, we'll see. They re up Jim Hiller. Does he stick with the one three one? What do they change there? The peer loop to boss raid for one year? How do you follow that up? Is he better next year? But to me, everybody else in the Pacific, we'll see what happens in Seattle, but it seems like they're kind of going through a reset here. Calgary is going through a reset. The California teams other than LA are nowhere near being competitive. There was still a strong path to be a top three team in the Pacific, if not the wild card. So yes, there could be a bit of a drop off, but to me, that a depends on Elias Patterson. If you get the best of him, then all of a sudden your ceiling goes a little bit higher. And I think that staying power is there. And what also makes that staying power real is the Pacific. I feel like it's going to be a status quo next year. I don't see any of those other teams that we talked about, the ones that didn't make the playoffs, really making a charge next year. I think Vancouver has got that path. But you have to, you have to make sure that you still play true to your defense. You have to have that big defense. You have to stick to your structure. And of course, you need to have the best of the least peterson you possibly can. Yeah. And to make it clear, like me saying that they might take a step back before they take a step forward, doesn't mean they're going to go back to being the seller dwelling team that we saw for most of the last decade. It just might mean they're not the division winners or they don't have home ice. They should still be a playoff team next year at the very least and anything less than that would be a reasonable disappointment for everybody within the organization and outside the organization in the fan base too. As far as the division goes, I think a lot of that's going to depend on the off season here. Like, assuming things stay the way they are right now, I agree with you. But what if Ron Francis goes and takes a big swing and brings in a top level player in Seattle? Now, I'll believe that when I see it, because he's been a very patient general manager to this point. But I think one or two top end players could kind of change the complexion of the way that the Kraken are going to play on top of the fact that they're going to have a new head coach next year. So they might play a completely different style in system and who knows how things are going to go in that regard. So, you know, a lot of that is to be determined. Although, for the most part, I agree with you. We know Edmonton's going to be there. We expect Vegas to be there to the same level. We expect the Canucks to be in that conversation and we'll see about LA and Seattle. And after that, you're not expecting anybody to mount a reasonable push. So the pathway is there. But again, it's about, you know, you remember Rutherford said at the start of the year, we need everything to go right to make the playoffs. You need to be in a situation where you can overcome more things going wrong than happen this year and still be a playoff team and still be there. And is this organization there right now? I think there is a good chance that they are. But we need to wait and see how things play out, see what the roster looks like going into training camp, see how they start the year. And we could sort of set our expectations on what next season could look like based on all of that. The other thing I want to get into is Pedersen specifically because, you know, yes, he was dealing with a knee problem. He made that clear. At the same time, this was not an injury that was severe enough that they ever elected to pull him out of the lineup or shut him down. And they rested guys at times this season, you know, Brock Besser did not make that trip to Winnipeg for the final game of the regular season. Alias Pedersen did Alias Pedersen played in those games. My recollection, I believe he missed one practice in the regular season. Maybe there were more, but there's one that stands out to me down the stretch where he was a maintenance day and didn't practice, but then came back the next day and was in the lineup. So there are two schools of thought here, which is, yes, he clearly had something nagging at him that affected his play in the second half. At the same time, as long as you're in the lineup, and this is what we always talk about, if you're in the lineup, if you're good to go, you need to be judged by the fact that you're good enough to go in the lineup. And my concern or my question or, you know, my thought about Pedersen going forward is there needs to be a higher floor so that if he is banged up or if he is going through a stretch where he's low on confidence or whatever it might be, there's still a baseline that you get because I think we talk about consistency. And that's what all these guys are striving for in terms of leveling up their game. That's my biggest concern around Pedersen is when it's good, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's really bad. And that is not acceptable for a guy that's going to be making 11 plus million dollars going forward. Well, when we talk about Pedersen at his height, that ceiling, we talk about him as a top five top 10 NHL talent. Really, when he's going, when his point production is through the roof and his two way game is next level, just, you know, looking at this past season, he, he was in that realm early on. And of those players on that list, whether it's McDavid, whether it's Sidney Crosby, whether it's go through the list, we know them, we love them, we've seen them play, we've marveled at them, they have that ability to have a pretty high floor at the same time. To your point, you can't have that volatility, right? You have to be a blue chip stock in the NHL world. You can't be one second, a penny stock, the next second, a, you know, a $60 stock blue chip, like it can't be as volatile. So you can't stop. You've got to know something solid that pays a dividend, you know, time for the big banks. Yeah, exactly. Right. Like you got to be one of the big banks when it comes to stocks, right? And Elise Pedersen, he was one of those. He had that, he had that stock value at the beginning of the year. And then you're right. It went GameStop and you can't have that volatility. So to me, it's a, all right, you know, a number of the elite players in the NHL play through something. And we notice when they kind of fall off. And with Pedersen, we could see him not carrying the puck enough, him not cutting to the middle of the ice. Obviously, something was up. We couldn't put our finger on it, but we know when he's going, we know when he's not. But how do you raise that to say, how do you power through that? And I think when Rick Talkett says you got to break that seal, that's what he's talking about. It's not only playing tired, but it's also, I understand you might be going through something, but there's a level of play that you have to make sure that you're hitting if you're going to be one of our top guys. And I think that's the next step for Pedersen. This was a first time where, hey, you're dealing with something. It's not enough to keep you out of the lineup, but you still now have to produce at a high level because this team needs you to do that. So when we talk about him learning and him working through something, it wasn't pretty. But I felt like in those final two games against Edmonton, you could see more positive things from him. He's just got to bring that more consistently if that ever happens again, Batch. All right, Randy, we're tight on time here. We've got a couple more questions we want to get to. So I'll answer one of the questions you can answer the other one. Dealer's choice. Do you want to talk about Heronik or Demko? Let's talk Heronik. We got to talk about Phillip Heronik. Come on. Okay. So here's the question from Kali Kanok saying setting a side in coal, Vancouver's season playoff veteran UFAs like Sidorov and Lynn home delivered while playoff newbies such as Heronik did not really should management take something like Heronik's inexperience into account or should that be a red flag against a possible extension offer your thoughts in about a minute or so? I think for me, Phillip, Heronik, you put that on his resume. It was his first experience, but at the same time, what makes this really important is that he's got an impending payday. And that payday, you have to make a quick judgment call. You care about the sample size but when you know that moment that crunch time comes, did you get it or did you not get that performance? So I think it does factor into a decision because we're not talking about a couple million bucks here. We're talking about if you believe the reports, seven, eight million bucks. I think it is no doubt on his record. So it does have an impact. Okay. And I'll take the Demko question. Sports philosopher Vancouver writes in and says right off the bat, just a thought she loves showed he still had holes in his game, but he was really good too. So do you consider trading injury prone Demko as good as he is to put a dream team in front of she loves what good is Demer? If he's unavailable for the playoffs, for example, I prefer Tanev in for Heronik, Genssel in for bekev as most would. But if the trade off to make that happen was she loves in for Demko, would you still do it? I would 100%. I think you can do that and have Demko next year. But the point is you can upgrade more. The thing I look at is that consistent goaltending and reliable goaltending is so hard to find in this league that while this was a great playoff run for archer she loves, it was still a small sample size. He doesn't have a larger resume at the NHL level. And we know how big of a difference it is from being a guy that comes in for a little run or a guy that comes in for a stretch or plays the odd game and being the guy to carry the mail. And I don't think that would be fair to archer she loves at this point in his career, just 23 years of age to put that on his shoulders. What I will say, though, is because of the confidence you can now have in she loves, that means you can manage Demko's minutes more effectively so that Demko is not injured every year when you get to the playoffs. And I think that's something the organization can learn from this year as well. Ran deep as we wrap up here on the show is they need to manage Demko's minutes better. And if she loves can be the backup that they have confidence in to allow them to do that, then that is the benefit that you reap from having a guy like she loves rather than giving him the the the bag to try and carry it when he's probably not suited already for that situation just yet. All right, before we get out of here, it's time for the final rose ceremony of the year. So this is a rose. I mean, you can do whatever you want, Randy, do you want to make it a rose for the playoffs? Do you want to make it your rose for the whole season? Where do you want to go with this? I'll let you lead the way. I'll go with the whole season. And to me, it's going to go to in the booth listeners and listeners of our game broadcast. This has been an awesome season for all of us. That's you and I have talked about it on air and other shows during the game broadcast. I want to give my rose to to everybody that's played a role on this show or the game broadcast. We love doing this because of you. So thanks for your questions. Thanks for your feedback. And it doesn't matter where you are on this planet. You've been listening and we appreciate it. And I'm going to extend that a little bit while I agree with everything that you said and our listeners and everybody we work with at SportsNet 650 deserves more than just a rose. They deserve bouquets and bouquets of flowers for all the support and we hear from all of you all around the world all season long. I'm going to give my last rose of the season for the fans that were in Rogers Arena for the playoff run because that was a special atmosphere. I've been in Rogers Arena for some of the most memorable moments in the history of the building from the 2011 playoff run to the gold medal win for Canada back in 2010 and that was pretty special and that atmosphere was something that we hadn't had for a long time in this city and it was very cool to be a part of that. So a tip of the cap and a rose to all the Canoch fans that showed up at Rogers Arena and made that a difficult place to play for the Nashville Predators and the Edmonton Oilers through those two series. And that does it for this season of in the booth our first year doing this show. We thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate the support and you'll hear from us at some point over the summer because we know there's going to be Canoch News in the coming weeks. There's the NHL entry draft in about a month for the agency not long after that. Canoch's development camp too. So lots of things to look forward to and we'll be back with regularly scheduled programming ahead of next season. But for the last time this year I'm Brendan Batchelor for Randeeb Janda. Thanks for listening to In The Booth. You've got it on your official home of the Canoch's Sportsnet 650.
