[MUSIC] >> Good times, fan morning shows 4.5.9 in the fan, man, and his friend got it. I mean, Red had it right. >> I don't know if he's speaking about it in saying. >> Now, does at the end of the movie, Red changes stance on Hope? And say like, Hope is the greatest thing cuz he gets the water cash. God, to that black rock, yeah, no earthly reason for him to be there. And then God, what a moment, he and Andy reuniting- >> Yes. >> On the shores of Zaywan today, yes. >> But can we just quickly hear Andy Dufresne who definitely killed his wife? He's like, I'm an innocent man, it's like I feel like- >> What are you talking about? >> He's guilty, I feel like- >> Have you seen the movie? >> Yes, of course I've seen the movie. It's like you just take his story as gospel and the guy's like, I don't know. >> Wait, no, the other guy admitted to killing his wife. It's a crazy person admitted to it, yeah. >> Wait, hold on, this is an insane take that I've never heard of. >> You've never heard that it's like, he was drunk, he had a gun, he's staring there, and it's like a constant, and all of a sudden he didn't do it. You've never for a second thought like, no, Andy did kill his wife, you never thought that? >> No, because the guy admitted to doing it. >> Okay, you're right, we're just gonna take that guy's word as gospel. It's like, what does he have to lose? >> Yeah, I need to bring this to the world that- >> Okay, yeah. >> Is this like a popular internet theory? >> I don't, on the other side of the glass, is anybody ever thought that Andy- No, everybody's thumbs down, that's the most insane thing I've ever heard you say, which is like, that's- >> I know, you're the boy, it's a boy. >> No, man, when you said that, I was like, no, you've never seen the movie. >> No, I'm not, it's like, I do feel it. >> That's like a core tenet of the movie that he's an innocent man. >> Okay, sure, like, okay, yeah, tall, yeah, okay, yeah, we're just all gonna believe. Come on, come on, let me tell you something, get a quote case files in there. >> Stand on it. >> You know what, I know this is another podcast, me and you, we're doing a rewatchable as I've been excited to hear. >> Wow, all right, no, like, I appreciate it. >> I know, I appreciate that type of stance, but it's insane and makes no sense. >> Can I apologize to you for one part of it? >> Okay. >> I'm just, I'm sad Adnan's not here for this. >> Yeah, cuz then like, this is like, we'll just have to revisit when we talk to Adnan. >> Yeah, we'll talk to him this weekend, no doubt, that will come up, all right. So, Bluejay standing. >> Have a take and stand on it, okay? >> Absolutely, no, I appreciate that, even though it's ludicrous. >> [LAUGH] >> Anyways, yeah, like, you know who else was ludicrous? The guy who's like, I'll do it, yeah, get out of here, get out of here. >> Andy being an actual murderer, like, you don't, why would you root for him? Which is the whole idea, like, as the viewer, you're- >> I'm rooting for Red, how does, like, I'm just rooting for Red and the guy with the, what was his name, with the, with who had the little bird, he's feeding it worms and all the way didn't go well for him. >> Yeah, we should get Stephen King on the line who wrote that movie. >> I'm shocked our boss has not, Ryan Fabro, it's like he references the movie all the time. Shot, he hasn't coolly demanded in here to tell me how wrong I am. >> Yeah, I mean, it's an insane take. Anyways, Bluejay is very bad. That's not the prototypical Bluejay's loss. >> Quickly better or worse than that take, like the Bluejay's. >> Ooh, I mean, they're- >> Very bad to right there. >> Yeah, neither can be redeemed. >> Okay. >> Bluejay's very bad. Worst spot they've been in this season, six games under 500. And six games remaining in this soft spot in their schedule where they get three games against the White Sox starting this afternoon in Chicago. It's Memorial Day in the United States. And then three back at home at Rogers Center against Pittsburgh Pirates and they miss Paul Skeen somehow. Like, well done, schedule makers there. >> Good for the Bluejay's like, a little bad, I wanted to see that. >> Yeah, sure. Because again, no, no, you're absolutely right because at a certain point this does pivot to like, ooh, the visiting players, yeah. >> Who's coming? >> And then after that, it's the Orioles. And you're back into your regular scheduled program. But it's not going well. And that's despite Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. looking pretty damn good. Like over a prolonged period of time and for the season has his batting average over 300. Hit a home run in Detroit at a couple extra base hits. Bulbashette like some more power would be nice, but he's also hitting close to 300 over his last 20 some odd games like those guys are playing well. The supporting cast despite yesterday's offensive performance, it has not been there often enough, save for you, Danny Jansen. And for the most part, like yeah, Dalton Varshos also had his moments and that was, man, what a key home run that could have been yesterday if the guys that have generally done their job could have done their job yesterday. >> I just have to laugh at Danny Jansen, who is probably like, I don't have this number offhand because it's an unofficial stat that I've made up. But who has had in my opinion, like 32% of all clutch hits for the Bluejay's over this entire era. He's like, I get to be over there. I'm not a part of the core. I have all the knocks of note for this group, but that's why I had to laugh because it's like he is the guy who comes through without a debit every type. >> Well, except on Saturday, but then the decision making surrounding his contractual status is first up because he's a free agent next year, not the year beyond which Vlad and Bo are. So to that point, it's not been an overly successful era. Like the promise of both Vlad and Bo when they both arrived and the individual performances and the making the playoffs in 2020 and the weirdo season and the coming just a game short in 2021. Then making it with an extra win in 2022 and having that big lead and game two against the Mariners and it all going sideways and then reverting to 89 wins last year. And of course, only scoring one run in a two game series sweep of the hands of the twins has this era and the lack of postseason success and the diminishing returns as far as the team is concerned and individually, if you're talking about Vlad because last year was his worst full season in Major League Baseball, we'll see what he has in store. This year, has it soured people enough that they would be disappointed? Like say today, Blue Jays say, yeah, I know it hasn't gone well. But guess what? Vlad and Bo, I've signed identical, 10 year, $300 million extensions. They're going to be here for the duration of their careers. How do you think this fan base would take that? I think there, I think that is obviously this goes to the same. That's like a super complicated answer. I think that people still by and large would be happy to have those guys obviously bow to a larger extent than Vlad. But I think that Vlad was just starting from place of fan perception so much higher than Bo, that even the fall, there is still a pretty big swath of fans of this team who like, again, he's on all the billboards, he's on all the commercials that I think that people would be happy to have those guys in the fold going forward and his pillars of it. The reason they wouldn't be happy is because it would signify that it's just going to be like, all right, scotch tape and bubble gum around these guys. Let's try to figure it out. I think if it was in the off season after a complete tear down at the deadline of, okay, we traded away all the free agents to be and we're going to really kind of do this quickly, but it is not, it's a completely different team with the exception of those two guys and the good starting pitchers, I guess, that then I think people would be okay with that. But if it came today, which obviously it ain't coming, then I think people would be super concerned that they go, oh, you're going to try to like do this with like the George Springer, Justin Turner, Dalton Varshot team. >> Maybe people would believe that, but I think like honestly, if it was announced today, it would give you more leeway because you're like, oh, well, the window is wide open. >> It's 10 years now. >> Yeah, okay, so this year sucks and we wish it hadn't gone this way, but we're going to regroup and sell off our pending free agents and do a better job of creating a competent offense this off season. I generally do think people would be still excited and happy about that. And rightly so, because here's the thing. Those guys, while Vlad wasn't good enough last year, he's not part of the problem. Those guys are part of the solution. And as much as you need more minor league depth, and it would be a good idea to again, recoup assets for your pending free agents and get some more young, exciting players into your minor league system. Whatever you produce in your minor league system is like, got a 1% chance of ever reaching the heights of either of those players, like Boba Shett might be on a Hall of Fame track. Now, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at his age could still turn into one of the best sluggers in Major League Baseball. We've seen him be the best hitter in the American League in a weird season in 2021. You need to double down on those two players because you're pot committed here, like whether you've given them the money or not. >> This era of Toronto Blue Jays baseball surrounds those two guys. And you are still, this is not, this is not the National Hockey League where you're like, it turned the Maple Leafs have turned into a place where free agents are interested in signing up. This is still an organization that has to give like an extra year to a George Springer, which in retrospect, hmm, interesting, the Mets decided against that. Not that the Mets have like made a bunch of a brilliant move swimmingly for them over the last couple of years, but that one might have been a good one. >> George Springer looked pretty good beginning a couple of years of that deal and would have been nicer if he was healthier or the first half. But now it feels like it's all sunk cost that the final three years of it. But this is what the Blue Jays have to do in free agency, handcuff themselves to bad deals because this is not a destination. You have an opportunity with to say what you will about Vlad and I have above average >> You know, players that are homegrown and then, I don't know how much this is true, but maybe given their druthers, certainly it feels more so with Vlad than Bo would like to remain in a place that they understand and that feels like they are respected in. >> Mm-hm. >> I mean, that is such an easier path to go down than, hey man, just tear it down to the studs. >> For sure. >> Let's do it again in this organization, this front office who, I mean, we can talk about who's going to be running the thing who has a very limited track record of creating these diamonds in the rough of creating high level position players in the first round of the draft. We're going to put it on them to recreate what has already happened here. There's just, it's a hard thing to wrap your head around that happening. You already have the good players. >> Do what the, honestly, no, no, no, please, please, phrase it a different way, do what the avalanche did. >> Yeah, but do what the Leafs did where it's like, okay, yeah, obviously we didn't surround these guys with the right players and the combination is not correct. But honestly, you could do worse than Austin Matthews and William Kneelander being at the core of your next generation of team. You could do a lot worse than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Boba Shen has the two tenants and then the starting pitching still has a longer runway than obviously some of the position players. The rest of it, like the rest of it, the other seven position players outside of maybe like Davis Schneider, who's, he's just at the beginning of his era of team control and Dalton Varshow. >> Mm-hm. >> Yeah, he's obviously a positive player. Everybody else, you can go and build around Vlad and Bo. >> Yeah, and the Leafs problem, I could not turn this into a conversation about the Leafs, but the Leafs problem wasn't that they paid all those guys, it was that they paid all those guys in a cap league. That was really the problem. We can talk about the dynamics of what it does, but that was really the issue. If they could have done whatever the O8 Red Wings did, I don't think we would have been having those conversations. Let me throw this, because I agree with everything you just said, that no matter how you feel about those guys in any given day or whatever, that is still a sound investment to make on either of them. How do you think people would feel if it was one versus the other? Because I don't, we would all love the day, and God, Lord, well, I mean, maybe they'd like to break it up, so they got the two positive news announcements, but that'd be one of the greatest days since 1993, if the two of them were standing up there, signing these contract extensions, but how would people feel if it's just Bo or it's just Vlad? How do you think them not doing it together would change or impact how people feel about it? >> Yeah, that's a weird one, because then the other guys got to be traded, like there's just no debate, like if, and that one for sure cannot happen in season. >> That's a hey, the season went pear-shaped. >> Winter meetings, yeah. >> We traded away all our pending free agents of the deadline, we recouped as many assets as we could, we went into the off season with the new general manager, because good Lord, you cannot continue with this front office structure. >> I mean, this past off season was so disastrous, again, like it's my favorite piece of red this weekend, the BNS one, where he talked about them needed a 97 with, he laid out all the free agents they signed, and your boy in mind, IKF, is the north star of what they did this off season. >> Yeah, it's not been great, it's not been great. So yeah, you'd have a new general manager, but then if discussions go in such a way that you understand that a more palatable extension is viable, and again, like reading the tea leaves, it does feel like Vlad is the more likely guy to say, not that he's gonna take some massive dis- >> No, no, no, no, no. >> It just feels like Bo is such an angry fella, honestly, and such a like bet on himself guy that he's like. >> I love it. >> And I love it. >> I'm gonna do the Juan Soto thing. I think I can be the best free agent out there, and I'm gonna break the bank. I'm gonna get Corey Seager money or beyond like I'm gonna be that guy in free agency. So it doesn't feel like he's the, the, the, the guy that would be more amenable to an extension despite the fact that of the two guys, he's the only guy that's factually signed in extension. >> He's actually put pen to paper on a multi-year extension, it's a little different by an up all your arbears. >> Yeah, 100%, but yeah, you go into an off season and you realize it's only possible with one or the other. >> Yeah. >> And it's just Vlad, you have to do that. And then you do have to do the thing where you, you shop Boboshette in earnest and at least you got one foundational pillar piece and then you hope to get the, the thing that the nationals, like it must be said, gone for a job, Juan Soto and remaking their franchise. >> Yeah, I, the, and you can't operate in the fear of this because if you've, if you've given Vlad, he has 300 million or whatever it works, said you've got to believe in that. But I mean, what does that do to the pressure on Vlad? There is no more who's team it is and it would be abundantly clear if that's the case. And maybe, maybe that's what he needs. Like I'm not gonna sit here and be totally blind to the reality that there is a world where he is not sharing the mantle and it's not, you know, several people's club, I'm not blind to that. Like he seems like a very charismatic guy. People want to follow him. People roll their eyes at it. Like there's different, you know, strokes for different folks. That's fine. But there are people who want to get behind him. They clearly will do that. I just, man, what a change in team dynamic that will be because I, I think it's more likely than not that it becomes one or the other as opposed to both. >> Boy, though, if you could somehow figure it out, like again, matching identical, ten year $300 million deals for Vlad and Bo announced today. And you could say to your fan base, this season sucks. Like we see what you're seeing. We're not idiots. >> Yeah. >> But those guys are good. Again, despite the slow start from both of them, like Vlad is already rebounded to respectability. And Bo is on his way to rebounding to respectability. And those are guys that have come up through the organization. We're banking on those guys in the long term, and it actually frees us up more to not push the panic button on 2024 when it comes to the deadline. It frees us up to understand that this is kind of a reset year. And then everybody, the pressure's off and it's the hey, what do we have in a relevant smart team as for the last couple of months? Hey, what do we have in Addison Barger? Hey, what do we have in Spencer Horowitz? Hey, maybe Ricky Tiedem and you could be healthy. We could see you at the major league level. It would change the entire tenor of the season if you announced today. Vlad and Bo, this is the era and rightly or wrongly, we're going to sink or swim with those two guys for the next decade. >> Yeah, I will say with Vlad, it seems, and I don't know, maybe it is more easy than I'm making it out to seem, but it seems like there is such a thin area to thread a deal with him and the team. And I know he wants to be here. And if he continues to perform like this, it actually gets easier because then you're more certain of what you're buying, but there has just been such chasms between the high end version of him and the low end version of him that he seems like he is more open to a deal. But the range of figures that are realistic or whatever that means to both sides seem much, much wider than with Bishette where maybe he wants to negotiate harder and maybe he is not going to die to be here. It's going to be a matter of what's the best deal for me. But I also think that it's easier to find that number because Bishette's performance has been so consistent. You can point it and say, look, okay, like maybe I want to negotiate here and you want X and I'm going to be like, what about Y, but with Vlad, the areas of figures that would be exchanged between sides, just massive golf. So that's the part that complicates this as well is that the guy who maybe it's easier to do the deal with because he's just happy to be here would maybe be more open to signing it, the figure is so much harder to land on than the guy who I don't think would be unhappy to sign a deal here, but I don't think it's ready to throw away free agency just yet at all anytime soon. >> Yeah, he wants to, Bishette, I think, wants to break the bank. He wants to set records. >> Which I do not forgot him one bit. >> Yeah, no, and maybe Vlad does, but hard to imagine him deserving it as a first baseman, but maybe he's- >> Few more months like this. >> Maybe he thinks he's the guy that he was in 2021. Anyways, we'll get into it more with John Marosi in a couple of minutes. But I want to get into the NBA's conference championships here for a second. Did you know, by the way, that if both the Mavs and the Celtics sweep their series, we're going to have eight days between the conference finals and the NBA finals? >> They should do like when the lockout was going on, they should make the Timberwolves and Pacers play flag football. >> Yeah. >> Just do something. >> Do something. >> Do something. >> You both got swept potentially. Go do something. >> Dude, can you imagine- >> Anthony Edwards, good quarterback. We've heard it. >> The narratives and the discourse, we will have over that more than a weak span from NBA pundits just because of the lack of information. You got to make stuff off- >> Got to talk. >> It's going to be wild wacky stuff if that's the case. >> Pray for Stephen A. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. By the way, the Mavericks first team to take a 3-0 series lead despite trailing in the final five minutes of the fourth quarter in each game. >> God. >> The '87, '98 at least, that's when we have play-by-play data. Dallas- >> Feel so late. >> I know it does. Dallas is outscored in Minnesota by a 24/11 margin in the final three minutes of those three games. And Anthony Edwards is like, he's obviously taken a star turn. He's already star, but like superstardom now knocking off the defending champions. But this is what you imagine is a natural progression for a star player, making it as deep as he is in his entire career. It's not, nobody just wins it all right away in their first kick of the can. And he'll be back. I would imagine next season and better than ever. It's also amazing that Carl Anthony towns despite being the former face of this franchise and has had some moments in this postseason, has gotten to this place. And it's almost like his, I'm speaking for myself though, the way I view him has diminished over this postseason. And specifically this series that it almost feels like he's gots to go guy for that Timberwolves team in the off season. >> Yeah, with me, it's more that he is just honestly completely like forgotten kind of and I guess that, but I think that's actually an improvement from where I've felt about Kat at various times when he's like active detriment. >> Well, it's more just like don't talk ever. He is a classic don't ever say a word guy who's going on podcast talking about like how they changed the game and maybe give us that interview this off season after you beat the nuggets and everybody not what you've done in the years leading up to it. Yeah, Kat is always a weird one. He's a classic guy though, who it's like he all of a sudden gets slotted into a different role and you again, it's not like we're sitting here saying we feel great about him, but it's like you just don't need to think of him as this lead dog guy anymore. And yeah, I mean, I think I think Kat is a classic, he is a classic like he gets probably too much credit when it's going well and we all like to make fun of them. Ben Simmons isn't around, there has to be one. >> Yeah, it's true. In this series, despite it being a three oh series lead for the maths, like all three games have been varying levels of great game two is great great game one was great yesterday's game might have been the worst of the three was still pretty great. >> Just Luca at the end of the game two there just cook and go bare. >> Oh my God. >> And that was perfect for me personally. >> It's an unfair spot for Rudy go bare to be in like yeah, yeah, it's tough. >> We've got an island out on the island. >> Yeah, not what you want. >> It's not. Anyways, Rudy go bare not part of this discussion, but it's amazing how we've gone from boy, there was a burgeoning dynasty happening in Denver to like, wow, now it feels wide open. Also the best player in the world debate feels like it's changed hands a couple of times here. >> Yeah, so let's do like a quick timeline, right? We had LeBron for, I don't know, from the moment he stepped into the league as far as I'm concerned until I don't know, Giannis took the belt from him when he won the title. Let's just put a nice little bow on it that way. And then you think, hmm, Giannis is strong as an ox. No one can stop him without hackershacking him and, you know, he's not an amazing free throw shooter, but he ain't shacked. So that doesn't work either. And you go, okay, so he's just going to have this run and, again, not that Giannis is no longer a great player, but I think we all pretty quickly switched the belt over to Yokech. And then you feel like, okay, Yokech has it, and then he gets punched in the mouth in the playoffs just one year after winning his title and you hold on, Anthony Edwards. And this is the part that has to be stated with this is unlike all the other guys who mentioned there, we all want it to be Anthony Edwards. With Giannis, we're like, okay, I guess that's the best player. Like, we don't begrudge it, but it's just it's not sexy as personality is very endearing, but you don't think of it that way. Yokech, it's like, I think we all think it's hilarious that that's what the best player in the world looks like and how he plays and everything. But I don't think anybody rides for it saying like, I want it to be that guy. We all ride for it saying it is, but Anthony Edwards is the one who comes along and even me as a guy who like, we don't need to redo the LeBron Jordan debates, but it's like, I'm a LeBron guy. I sit there and I go, oh my God, it's MJ reincarnate. This is amazing. I am so happy we have this in our lives. And he gets to be that guy for three milliseconds before Luca Donch, it just comes and punches him in the mouth. And the fact that you have the like memes of when Anthony Edwards is in the hustle movie and he's looking at Bo Cruz and now Luca's doing that right back to Anthony Edwards. It's amazing. And I don't think this is going to happen, but there's a world where Jason Tatum goes and has an awesome series against Luca and everything we have just been poo poo in the Celtics for doing for two months, we're going to be sitting here giving his sliders. I don't think that's going to happen, but it's not under the realm of possibility. This is why sports is awesome. I love it when there's a dynasty and I love it when there's a top dog. Everyone is gunning for for years, but this is so much fun too. This period where there is just a constant tug of war, there's like seven guys pulling at seven different ropes. I don't understand how this tug of war works, but it is awesome to watch. I just, I love this period right now, the NBA. Yeah, I wish the series were going a little longer than the Cubs, but yeah, no, you're absolutely right that it's so much feels up for grabs and for the Celtics. Yeah, it's, they're easily forgotten because their postseason run has been hilarious and not their fault, right, that they, they, they beat the heat without your fault, beat the heat without Jimmy Butler, the Cavs without Donovan Mitchell and now no Tyree's Halliburton for these final games against the Pacers. But it feels like anything short of a title is not just like, Oh, disappointed like an abject disaster. And then it's like, Oh, what did you accomplish? Yeah, they basically lost the first round if they don't win the title, honestly, doesn't it? It really does. It really does. Yeah, but they could, they could win obviously being the best team during the regular season and having a guy that at times has felt like the best player in the NBA and Jason Tatum and having all the skill there. But yeah, it's a, it's a weird time to be a fan of the NBA because this is a sport in a league that's built on one guy who's the alpha of the entire league and specifically one team to where it's man, the, the belt has changed hands for the better part of the last half deck and, and there's a, and like, I don't think it's happening next year. But women, Yama's lurking like that felt like he has really long arms. He's going to be able to reach for it very, very soon. It's true. All right, well, we come back. I'll talk to John Rossi and I'll be network is fan morning show continues, bananas, friend gunning, sports at 590 the fan, unrivaled insight, analysis and opinions on all things blue jays, Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning shows, sports at 590 the fan, bananas, friend gunning, blue jays dropping a season high six games under 500 after briefly taking the lead, erasing a five run deficit against the Tigers on the strength of Dalton Varsho, two run home run, but then it all goes by the way side. It's John Romano, given up by a three run home run as the Tigers walk off the blue jays, tigers all of a sudden find themselves just a game under 500 blue jays, 23 though, and 29 as they resume play this afternoon in Chicago against the white Sox. Let's talk to your friend and mine, John morosi of MLB network and NHL network, how's it going, John? Ben and Brent. Good morning, my friends. I suspect that I'll have to wait for later on in our conversation to share how great it is to have the Memorial Cup here in Michigan. There's probably more pressing baseball conversations that we have to have before I can speak about what a great event I saw last night here. Better jump in or I will be tempted, but I'm going to let Ben go. Well, okay, save your eastern cow and scouting report for us in just a second. You got it. Let's talk because we are contractually obligated to do so talk about the blue jays who are yet. It's a rough goal of it. That's not generally how they lose baseball games, right, John? Like Jimmy Garcia giving up runs end of sentence like that doesn't happen generally in Jordan Romano. That's just his second blown save of the season. They also don't usually score double digit runs. So that's a bit of an anomaly, but losing not an anomaly for this team. So the sample is growing. It's almost June now, John, and listen, there's three wild card teams. So it's not over and nobody trades until the end of July. So you just keep playing out the string, but at what point are you what your record says you are when you're at the blue jays? Right around US Memorial Day, which is, of course, today. And I think that this is really a sobering weekend for the jays to contemplate it. And yes, you have to hope that you're playing the Chicago White Sox coming up beginning today and that you should be able to win that series and maybe get a little more momentum than you get the pirates at home that this is supposed to be the confidence building stretch for the jays. Remember, we talked about these four series in a row, White Sox, Tigers, White Sox, Pirates. And yet at the moment, there are three and four during this stretch. So it's just not going according to plan. And my my friend, Steve Kornacke, who was covering the series for for NLB.com made a very good point in his story after the game yesterday, which was rare is the day. When a team both scores and gives up the most runs in any game this season in the same game. And that was exactly what happened yesterday, that 14 runs allowed most of the season 11 run scored most of the season. And it really encapsulates your point, the blue jays of 2024 that in the game when they finally break out offensively in a huge way, score their most runs in any game of the entire season. And they lose and walk off-action after adult Varsho continues his his strength of recent days. And I thought Vlad had a really great weekend bow as well. They really figured some things out offensively. And I think that that was something Josh Schneider kept talking about yesterday after the game, which was I saw a lot of good signs offensively and he did. That's fair. They scored nine runs in the opener and 11 runs yesterday. So they're the, the, the offensive funk, it appears is lifting, but what is not lifting is the general malaise and the lack of winning baseball. It's certainly that trend. It didn't just continue yesterday. It was amplified. It don't, don't take what I'm about to say to be like, Oh, it's just the brakes. There's nothing the blue jays can do about it. But it is so funny how this sport works, Sean. I mean, when you're on a run of it and it's going well, you win games that you have no business winning. And with this blue jays team, they didn't deserve to win yesterday by any means, but all they've needed to do in this entire stretch from, I don't know, the start of the season to now, could they just have one game where they pack, where they tack on the runs, get it up to double digits and they finally do it and it still doesn't work out for them. The pen blows it with, you saw what happened with Romano with Garcia. It's just that is feels like the perfect distillation of the way this jays season is going is that even when you find the right, or you find a way to do it the right way offensively, the part of your team that you've been able to hold up just kind of crumbles beneath you on one given day. It just seems like that is such a feature. I've seen that loss for so many different disappointing baseball teams over the course of my life. Well, you're right. And Brett, here's the interesting slash concerning part of it for the jays is that I looked us up this morning. They actually have as a team as the relief pitching group, the bullpen, the third worst bullpen ERA in the major leagues, 5.01, it's really hard to win games consistently when your bullpen area is above five. It's just, it's a very difficult thing to do. Now, broadly speaking, Jimmy Garcia has been great this year. Romano's been solid too. And so it was in that way, stunning and that that's probably the most surprising part of yesterday's game is that they got the game to the two guys that they trust and it still didn't work out. The aspect of it that I think is somewhat concerning going forward is that the jays, I believe they have thrown in the bullpen, the fifth fewest innings, meaning thanks to the starting rotations consistency, they haven't had to work that much. And so as you move into the middle third of the season here, you do wonder with a bit of trepidation, the starting pitchers wear down a bit or there's an injury there and then you have to cover more innings in the bullpen, this is going to be exacerbated all the more, especially the middle part of the game. Again, eighth of the ninth inning this year have been solid. Yesterday wasn't a anomaly in that regard. It's the bridges that they may need to rely on more if their rotation becomes a little bit less reliable and that is among the many concerned blue jays and the fans have. That has to be somewhere near the top. Yeah, it's it's not, not great all the way around. Also you have the uncertainty of Vlad and Bo only having one more year of team control beyond this one. There's a lot of pending free agents as well, including the guy that's been the best hitter on this team. Danny Jansen plus the uncertainty with the front office as far as fans are concerned. I mean, how do you see that working itself out? Ross Atkins does feel tied at the hip to Mark Shapiro, but it's hard to imagine this front office staying intact after the disappointment of this season. Right, I would agree with that, that the way things are going, it's it's becoming more difficult to imagine the entire front office group remaining in their current positions as of opening day 2025, based on where they're at right now at the bottom of the American League East. But what the big question here is, how do you get from here to there and and what decisions do you make along the way? I've got a couple of thoughts that I reflected on about this over the weekend number one. And after talking to people, I believe I believe pretty strongly in this the only way or or I would say it's likely to me that if if Ross Atkins is still the GM as of the trade deadline, that that Vlad and Bo are going to remain in a J's uniform for the rest of this season at least. In other words, the only way that I envision Vlad or Bo potentially being moved at this trade deadline is if things get so bad that the Blue Jays change their GM. But I believe that the decisions are aligned in that way because if you think about a big picture, if you're training Vlad and or Bo, you are signaling that you're going to have a rebuild. So if you're going to have a rebuild, wouldn't you want to have whoever the new chief baseball person is going to be to be the person who makes that first major decision of that rebuild. Everything other than that doesn't make sense to me that's a really to me, that's a really logical through line that that if you're going to make that trade, it's got to be somebody new doing it. That's number one. Number two, if you're going to send your expectations to be realistic here, let's remember what the J's got for for one year of chaos for an end. Now, TASTER is not necessarily not the same player as Vlad on the same player as Bo, but when the J's traded TASTER, he had one year left, which is what Bo and Vlad will have after this year. And at that point, you're not talking about how old the player is, what the future looks like. If you're training Vlad and Bo after this season is over, you're training one year of the player. And when the J's traded one year of TASTER and Andes, they got back Eric Swanson and Adam Mackel, two players, a reliever and a potential future starter. But these are not top 50 prospects in the game types of players. So I think it's important for J's fans to, as hard as this is to do, set their expectations. Teams, generally speaking, when it's a hitter for one year, especially in the case of Vlad who has been, even though he's hitting more of the last week, he's been a league average first baseman for the last year and a half. So if you call up a rival team, let's say Seattle, for example, just an easy example because it was the safety that got TASTER and said, "Hey, how is Vlad's out?" Great. Yeah, we can use the first baseman. So give us your top prospect in AAA. No, because, well, I could sign someone who basically hits like Vlad for eight to 10 million bucks on the free agent market. Why would I do that? I think that's the unfortunate reality of where the J's are, that this notion that you could just shop Vlad or Bull this off season and get a ton of players back to start your rebuild. I just think it's not supported by the way the market typically works. I agree wholeheartedly. It's why I today made the argument for re-signing both of them, like trying in earnest right now to sign them to extensions. And obviously there has been, if nothing more than preliminary discussions, like some discussions with their representatives about extensions, obviously nothing's borne fruit to this point. But yeah, I mean, if that's the case and some hard reset of trading, those guys is not going to turn you into the Baltimore Orioles and what they are now in the next couple of years, I mean, it almost feels like you need to double down on these two guys. Does it make more sense for this front office to do their darned as to sign those guys long term right now? And then maybe it makes it a little more palatable to just view this season as a one off reset year because at least the future isn't super bleak. Right. I think that you're spot on, Ben, that you really have two choices here, that you either need to do all that you can to keep this core together and understanding, of course, with the amazing renovation of the Rogers Center, you want to have the superstars to help bring the fans in. I understand that. And if that's the business model slash baseball strategy, then you're right. Then you need to sign those players long term. But if you can't, and I know it's not a perfect world and it's difficult to make things happen on a short amount of time, and by the way, if you're talking about hypothetically, if you wanted to change the GM today and you make that decision, well, what are you going to do in terms of an actual search to have an exhaustive, comprehensive search around majorly baseball to bring in someone who then needs some time to get up to speed and then makes massive decisions on July 30th. Certainly, James Click, theoretically, you could just promote in from within. He won a World Series of the GM and certainly can do the job and knows the organization now. But it is the J's are right now, Ben, and Brent presented with a suite of unappealing options. And the Vlad and Bo option, signing them is great, but it's going to be expensive. And if the budget doesn't permit that, then you start wondering, okay, what do we do with you, say, Kukuchi coming up in free agency? And is there a prospect, I would say the answer is probably no, because of Tiedemann's injury. Is there a prospect ready to step in and replace Kukuchi yesterday's game notwithstanding and deliver his same level of consistency from within? I don't really see that from this farm system right now. And Manoa, while he's been encouraging, you're still not entirely sure what the rest of the season looks like, Ram. So it's just, it's a very complicated time, and I would say this, that rather than waiting until the trade deadline, you should be decisive now in one way or the other. And if you want to keep Vlad, Bo, and keep going for it, great, but guess what? Make some trades or make some promotions in the minor leagues to make your position player group a little bit more versatile and give Josh Snyder some better options. That's, it is not a very flexible position player group at the moment. You've got a lot of two move guys. Vocal Bach is one example. If you're going to go for it, go for it. And I think James fans understand the big picture here and would accept that strategy. But you've got to, you have to get out of neutral right now. They're in neutral. They need to decide where they're going. Yeah, it's odd. Who would have thought building a team with like a six DHS on it? Would have, would have, would have hindered the ability to have a flexible, flexible line up there? You know, we talk about the extensions potentially, if you could do one with Vlad, with Bo, with both. The thing that is so complicated about it is that, you know, at least our perception here seems to be Vlad, maybe more. Not that Bo is unwilling, but Bo, you know, he has the year it's all locked up. He's taking care of his arm years. We're glad he's maybe more open to doing a deal, but he feels like the harder player to do a deal with because there's been such a up and down performance from him over the years with Bishette. Maybe it's harder to do a deal with because he wants to get to free agency or at least see it play out a little closer, but it seems like the two sides could potentially be closer on numbers because his career baseline has been so similar, whereas with Vlad, it just seems like there's been so much fluctuation that maybe there's more willingness on both parties to do a deal there, but it just feels like it's hard to find the right number with him. Right. I agree. And I think that if you just take the very basic example of Vlad and the team could not even agree on a one year salary and went to an arbitration hearing several months ago, it's in the notion that they could then turn around and find a way to make a longer term deal when they couldn't even agree on something that was definitely a very small gap. That's a concern for me, that there's just not a path to getting a deal done with Vlad, even though Vlad is certainly playing better for the full season right now, hitting better, then what Bo is, and in Bo's case, remember, of course, Bo's agent, same agent as Justin Turner, so the J's had an agreement with Craig Gensky on Turner over the off season. So they've had some productive conversations with Craig. I think that could be one encouraging data point. It also, though, comes down to this, they probably still view themselves both as superstars in the game and expect to be paid that way. At the moment, Bo is batting 247 with a 650 OPS. It's hard to find middle ground if the organization says, "Well, Bo, we're going to base your salary on this year's numbers and where things have gone recently," and that just becomes a very difficult conversation to have if Bo is still in his mind, thinks of itself as the guy that led the league in hits. So that's the complexity. I think both will be challenging. Bo, I would be a little bit more optimistic about that extension happening. Vlad, I would be really surprised just because of how contentious the one-year negotiation was just a few months ago. All right, before we let you go, it's your Memorial Cup time in your home state of Michigan. In Saginaw, all eyes in these parts are on Easton Cowan's London nights who got off to a night start with a 4-0 win over Drummondville, although weirdly, Easton Cowan held off the score sheet. What's the scuttlebutt around the Memorial Cup? Well, first of all, so the first time the memcup has ever been in Michigan, so I'm very proud that it's in Saginaw, which is about 25 kilometers from where I grew up. So it's a pretty proud hometown moment for me, and I was there each of the last two nights. London's got such talent, and obviously dominant team during the course of the OHL playoffs, Easton Cowan, love watching him play, amazing hockey sense, just he's a very, very smart and talented player, which is just a fun combination. He certainly plays at a great pace too, Barkey's an excellent player on London, Bonk, I think, is a special player. Dickinson, of course, is a draft eligible this year, along with Zane Parek on Saginaw, so a lot of talk about comparing to two of them. But last night, Oakville's own Michael Misa III assists for Saginaw was the first star. I thought he made just several just extraordinary passes, and really nice to see him shining on the big stage, of course, knowing that his draft year is coming up in 2025. So it was an honor to be there, you know, Josh Bloom is from Oakville as well, just to see a lot of the Canadian junior hockey media there as well, it's just a pretty unique experience for me. So I've had a lot of fun, hope everybody enjoys the memcup, and of course, we've got London Saginaw on Wednesday, the showdown, London is undefeated, Saginaw is undefeated, so that is the match that I'll be watching carefully this week. Yeah, Oakville is a hockey hotbed in the GTA, both my sons born there, so I don't know, maybe, maybe a good sign. I mean, they will, they related to you, so Ben, when we're, when we're, when I'm covering the memcup, and let's do the math here, what, another 15 years, 14 years, wherever it may be, I'll be covering the Ennis boys, that was going to be a lot of fun. Can't wait for that, buddy, and we'll be doing the show as well, obviously, obviously. Obviously. That's obvious. John, always a pleasure. Yes, and by then, we'll still be talking about the J's payroll and find a way for them to get the big figure out, right? No, by then, I'll, you'll have to amend my take because it'll be the end of those, the 10-year extensions that I had, the blue J signing, Vlad and Bo, I guess, 15-year extensions, and then I'll be like, oh, I didn't realize the end of these things would age the way they did. So yeah, I'll have to apologize at that moment. But by then, Vlad will be 40. Yeah. It's amazing. See you, buddy. Well, it's great. Have a great week, guys. Thanks so much. Yeah, you too. John Marosi of MLB Network in Michigan, covering the memorial copies, Busy Man. Yeah. And, uh, at Comerica Park for the blue J's most disappointing loss of the season. And, uh, yeah, eyes keenly on Easton Cowan. Yeah. And I'm covering both sides of it, right? Like, he basically, like, called the Beshet Homer when he gave the cleanup stat, but then he also showed up for what is arguably the most disappointing loss of the season. So he's really kind of touching all bases there. And, um, I hope John's enjoying it, but you better give me back my memorial cup. I, like, I understand we have teams in America, but I'm, I like it when it's in Canada. So it's in robusty next year, shout out to Sydney Crosby and shout out to the people of Quebec. I'm sure Saginaw's doing a wonderful job. Good for them. But come on. Give it, give it back. Yeah. You'll get it back. Um, all right. Time now for the waken rake presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly afternoon action from Chicago for the blue J's today, two 10 first pitch on a sports net against the white socks, uh, Nick Nastrani with the ERA approaching 12 on the mound for the white socks against Chris Bassett and the blue J's favorite to the tune of minus 189 white socks, plus 153, the total eight and a half here. I'd like to point you to the two, five, six whip that he also possesses this year. Um, I can't believe I'm about to do it, folks. We're going to take the blue J's on the run line at minus one and a half. They lit this guy up last time. Even if they get to them half as much, I still like their chances got hound dog on the mound. These bats stay hot, uh, J's minus one and a half minus one 50, but that's not the way baseball works. You score quadrillion runs the next day. You don't. I, I, as crazy as it sounds for a team that scored in double digits in Detroit a day previous against the guy with an ERA of 12, I like under eight and a half at even odds plus a hundred considering what the blue J's are in an overall sense offensively, despite having one good offensive day that was the waken rake presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, Keegan Matheson, he's in Chicago getting ready for this series. He joins us next of MLB.com as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, sports net five, 90, the fan.
