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The Curious Case of Brian Higgins' Destroyed Cell Phone | 5.28.24 - The Grace Curley Show Hour 2
Today's podcast is brought to you by Howie's new book Paperboy. To order today, go to HowieCarShow.com and click on store. Live from the Ibiba Trateria studio, it's The Grace Curly Show. We've got to bring in a new voice, a young voice, a rising voice, Grace Curly. You can read Grace's work in the Boston Herald and the spectator. Especially Grace, Grace Stand-up. Here's the millennial with the mic, Grace Curly. Hello everyone and welcome back to The Grace Curly Show. Thank you for joining us on this beautiful Tuesday afternoon. We open the show by talking about Robert De Niro's lackluster performance outside the Manhattan courtroom where the prosecution is about to deliver their closing arguments in the Trump Hush Money trial. This trial has been a lot of people are kind of bored of it because there's not really a crime that they're alleging. So whenever you have a case where there's no crime right there, you're going to lose a lot of people. But Biden seems to be really geared up for this verdict. He's ready to go. He's ready to comment on it. He's going to make a statement. He's going to give an address. And we all know how rare that is. Now my question, Jared, would be, does he plan on giving this address from the White House or from the White House set across the administration? Either way, I will be tuning in and how many jump cuts can we expect? Or is this actually going to be live? Imagine for a press conference of this magnitude, he'll be sitting behind the resolute desk with the bust of RFK Junior and Caesar Chavez behind him. This is official state business. Yeah, and it's not political at all. It will be under no circumstance. Will it be live? Yeah. Well, here's the other part of it, too, is that his son is about to undergo all of these trials. I think he's going to have to -- he's got the gun trial now, which is insane. And then he's got the IRS trial, which I'm very, very interested in, the evasion of his taxes. And so I don't know if he's really in a position right now to be looking down on people no matter what their verdict is, because he could very well be soon the father of another convicted felon, and depending on how things turn out. So I don't really know how he's going to frame it, but I wanted to switch gears here just for a second. We will go back to this. I want to play sound from Caroline Levitt. I want to play sound from Jason Miller, and I want to revisit that sound from Robert De Niro. But I did want to talk about this Karen Reid trial because Brian Higgins, the ATF agent who drank a lot of Jamison in ginger ale and had flirty text exchanges with Karen Reid, and Karen Reid did plant a kiss on him, according to his testimony. He was back on the stand today, and it was a short period of time, and he finished up his testimony. But we did get some interesting information, a lot of it having to do with the cell phone that he got rid of. Now, his excuse for why he got rid of this cell phone, to me, is not believable at all. He says like he found out his number was publicly available, and therefore he put it in a dumpster along with the SIM card that was destroyed. Obviously, the follow up to that is why didn't you just change your phone number and not destroy the actual phone. But let's go through Yanetti who was asking Higgins these questions and talking about the phone. This is cut one. When you met with those people on Honor About May 5th will say, or whatever date it was prior to June 1st of 2023, you told them that you did a factory reset of your phone ending in 5, 4, 2, 1. Did you not? I don't recall that. No, I don't recall making that statement. You don't recall what you said about the factory reset during that interview, we'll call it, in May of 2023, correct? That's correct. I think he's referring to the grand jury testimony, which is really, it's crazy how none of these... You have to put the dance around that. Yes, yes, number one, that is crazy. But number two, which is crazy to me is how much their stories have changed since that testimony. Like every single, I don't recall saying that, I didn't say it that way, that was taken out of context. It wasn't like this was an interview they did at a bar. This wasn't an interview conducted at the hillside. This was a pretty formal occasion to tell your story and maybe to stick with that story. Can I get cut to you, Nettie's now asking about the record showing that Higgins did a factory reset on his phone. This is cut to. I mean, read that document, sir. Does that refresh your memory about telling those people in May of 2023 that you did do a factory reset of your phone? That's not accurate. I did not tell them that. And I also didn't tell them that I saved texts with my father. All right, so your testimony is that they got it wrong, correct? My testimony is I didn't make those statements. Your testimony is that they got it wrong, yes or no? Jackson. Sustained. Who never transcribing these testimonies or recording them is really taking artistic liberty that everyone's getting it wrong. Like Jennifer McCabe said the same thing. Michael Proctor. What did she call him? Proper. Proctor. Proctor. Proper. He got it wrong. Now we're finding out that at this interview, everyone, you know, transcribed it incorrectly. It's amazing. These people can't get a fair shake. Everyone is taking their words and twisting them. Okay, now this is you, Nettie asking Higgins about the SIM card. If you, if you're not following the case, Brian Higgins is an ATF agent who was working out of the Canton police department. He was friendly with people there. He was with all of these, the Mick Alberts as Turtle Boy calls them. The night that John O'Keefe was allegedly run over by Karen Reed, they went to a bar, they went back to 34th Fairview. Brian Higgins was there. He then said they didn't have Jameson. They only had beer. So he left, went home, had a couple more drinks and then went, well, actually, no, he stopped at the Canton police department. Then went home, had a couple more drinks and then went to bed. Then he gets a call in the morning. Now, obviously he's, he has access to the Canton police department. He has access to all these people right there. There is the opportunity or this whole situation is ripe for conflicts of interest. And that didn't seem to bother anyone investigating this case. Now, on top of that, we have all these text messages that show Brian Higgins and Karen Reed. We're getting flirtatious. We're, you know, at the beginning of some sort of relationship. And that is why he is a witness in this case. On top of that, like so many great witnesses of the past, he destroyed his phone. Right when I hear someone destroyed their phone, whether it's Tom Brady or Hillary Clinton, my ears perk up. I'm now, I'm now invested in your story. I want to hear her from you. I want to hear, I want to hear the why. It's called innocence destroying. Yes. And so the SIM card, which a lot of phones now don't have the SIM card shared. A lot of phones, it's just like built in there. But his phone had a SIM card, so it must be a little bit older. And he decided because he thought his number was publicly available that he had to cut up the SIM card. Yeah, that's a logical next step. I guess this is cut three. And you either cut up the SIM card or ripped it up. Correct? I believe what I testified to was I would have. What have you, what you testified to? I'm asking you today, did you either cut up the SIM card or rip it up? Cut it up or broke it. And you will agree with me that cutting up or breaking the SIM card destroys the SIM card. Does it not? The card itself, yes. You know, he's getting, he's getting testy there and saying cut it up or broke it. Those to me are very different. Because, because I'll tell you why. I have a credit card, right? And I get a new one. The old one is, I cut that up. Not that crazy. Cut it up. Want to make sure no one gets hold of it. If I take a hammer to something, you know, if I, if I take a rock and I pound something to try to break it up into a million pieces, that just, at least the way I see it. That, now we're talking about a different beast. Like, I want to actually know that specific. This reminds me of when I read a story in police blotter and how he asked me, you know, what was the hamburger order that he was upset about. It just adds color to the entire story. And so he's getting snippy. Like, I cut it up or I broke it. Well, those are two different things. How does one go about breaking a SIM card? I could understand how you might cut one up, but I don't know what kind of scissors. It had to be like one of those scissors and the infomercials that they show you. It can cut through leather. It can cut through a couch. It can cut through steel. What kind of scissors is he working with? And if it's not scissors, Jared, would you agree with me that we should know? Is it a boulder? Did you take a giant rock? Were you pounding it with a hammer? Is it a hollow trunk trying to break in to destroy the Constitution? What kind of weapon are we talking about? What were the modes of destroying this SIM card? I mean, he honestly, I think we can generally assume that all these people are drunk all the time. So he may not exactly remember how he did it. Maybe he just poured some Jameson on it. He just watched it sizzle. Okay, this is cut for now. We're talking again about the SIM card and a trash bag comes into the picture. And you'll agree with me that you took that destroyed SIM card and put it in a trash bag. Did you not? I believe it went in a trash bag, yes. Well, you used a passive voice. It went in a trash bag. Did it fly out of your hand unexpectedly into a trash bag, sir? No, sir. It would have been disposed of with the phone. No, I understand. But are you reluctant to say that you put it in a trash bag, sir? Jackson. Can you answer that? Are you reluctant to say that? Oh, your honor. I put it in a trash bag. It took you a while to get there, huh? This is like the documents that were found in Joe Biden s house, but they just... They made their way to the Van Beys. The classified documents made their way around the world. And Joe Biden was just watching them as they, you know, with their little legs and little arms, like when a bill becomes a law, they waddled from the steakhouse to the garage. They sat in the Corvette and beeped the horn. Whoa, so fun. The same thing with the SIM card. Does the SIM card have giant, like hamburger, helper hands and little feet? And you just walking around? Of course, someone had to put the SIM card in the trash bag with the phone. Unless, and this could be a real twist in the story, we are dealing with a magic SIM card and a magic phone. And then I really am, Jared, uh... I'm not qualified to be talking about this. I don't work in the world of magic. Maybe the SIM card was embarrassed by the text and actually jumped into the trash can itself. The SIM card just couldn't do it anymore. Good not. It's like I can't do this. Okay, so he's very reluctant to say he put the SIM card in a trash bag. I don't know why. He doesn't think that's gonna make... He doesn't think that's gonna paint him in a good light. So can I get cut five? Now we're talking about once the SIM card magically with the phone... Once the SIM card looked at the phone and said, "We gotta get out of here. Let's make a run for it. Let's hop in this trash bag." Then it had to get to the military base, cut five. Oh, with my trash. And then you also took your phone now without the SIM card. And you put that in the trash bag too. Did you not? Yes, sir. Then you drove to a military base and you threw both the destroyed SIM card and the phone into a dumpster. Did you not? Well, I was cutting through the base and I believe how I testified was... You drove to a military base, sir. I was cutting through a base, yes. Did you drive to it? Yes, sir. And then you put both the destroyed SIM card and the phone itself, which were in a trash bag into a dumpster on that military base. Did you not? I believe that's what I did, yes. And as you were driving away, you knew that that destroyed SIM card and the phone would be gone forever, correct? Yes, I threw it away. I'm going to tell you something. You know... No, I'm not going to tell you something. I'm going to save it for when we come back. Because right now we have something else to talk about and that would be Omaha Steaks. Father's Day is coming up. Jared, this is something that all dads love. Dads love steak. And you know what? I shouldn't even say that because maybe some dads don't love steak, but they probably love hot dogs, hamburgers, chicken, salmon, apple tartlets. There's so many delicious things that you get when you order Omaha Steaks, when you order the Father's Day package. These are so delicious and I want you guys to get your hands on it. A world-class dad deserves a world-class steak and if you go to OmahaStakes.com, you can start with one of these gift packages. They started just $89, but I want to make sure you use promo code GRACE at checkout for an additional discount when you shop the gourmet gift packages for Father's Day. Listen, dad doesn't want anything complicated or fancy or expensive. He just wants delicious steaks, burgers, hot dogs, and he wants to grill out in the backyard. He wants to have a great night. He wants to relax, maybe watch some golf, put his feet up, and enjoy. And that's what Omaha Steaks does. And plus, Jared, I think it's really special. When you get something like this delivered, you know that you've been thought of. You know that your family gets you, that they know what you like. And it's just a really great gift. Plus, it's going to last you a long time. It's going to go far beyond Father's Day into the summer and it's always great to have some backup meals ready to go so that dad doesn't have to go to the grocery store. At five o'clock at night and pick through some of the products there, not nearly as great as the quality of Omaha Steaks. Yeah, that's the key. The key is the quality. You know, if you want to get your dad a great gift, get him Omaha Steaks. He'll be appreciative of it. And like Grace said, it's not just steaks. They have sides. They have desserts. They have fish, chicken, pork chops. You name it, the chicken's fantastic. You know, your dad may not have had chicken, but once he gets the Omaha Steaks chicken, he'll realize that is what chicken should taste like. I'm big on the chicken right now. Yeah, and the pork chops are delicious. The beefy burgers. There's so many great options. So go to Omaha Steaks.com for Father's Day. It's Dad's Day. Give him Omaha Steaks. Give him this awesome gift package. It starts with just $89, gets delivered right to his door. Don't forget to use promo code grace at checkout. And I want to know how you guys cook these things up for Father's Day. So go to Omaha Steaks.com use promo code grace. We'll be right back with more SIM cards, more trash bags, more military bases. Don't go anywhere. You're listening to the Grace Curly Show. [MUSIC] This is the Grace Curly Show. [MUSIC] The prosecution in the Trump Hush Money Trial is delivering their closing arguments. I'm going to say we'll have a verdict by Friday. I don't think that they'll start deliberating today. I think they'll wait till tomorrow, which puts us at Wednesday. It's possible we get it by Thursday. Now, I'm going to say I'm going to stick with Friday. That would be my prediction. That's not our poll question, though. Our poll question is brought to you by JJ Manning Auctioneers, whether residential, commercial, or land. JJ Manning can get your property sold now to learn more. Contact Charlie Gill at 800-521-0111 or go to jjmanning.com with over 16,000 sales and satisfied clients. You can be the next one. Jared, what is the poll question and what are the results thus far? Today's poll question, which you can vote in at gracecurlyshow.com, is how do you think the freaked out Democrats will handle their election prospects? Run Joe Biden and hope for the best replace Joe Biden, or try to cancel/postpone the election? Well, there's a piece today in the Wall Street Journal, the unsinkable Kamala Harris, and it talks about how Joe Biden has a problem. Even if someone did manage to persuade Mr. Biden to step aside and tell him that was the right thing to do, there's a bigger problem. Her name is Kamala Harris. You know where everybody knows your name? And identity politics gives her an effective veto over any plans to swap out candidates. And she's not going to just sit there and let that happen. The borders are, the space are, the electric school bazaar. She's not looking at them and go, you think you can do this without me? Who's gonna make up the Venn diagrams? Have you lost your mind? I love us! Oh my gosh, they think they can replace me, they can't. You guys think you're getting rid of me? That's funny. You know, I don't see that happening. I see them crossing their fingers, the Democrats. Hey, this is your guy. You brought him to the dance and he's sniffing everyone's hair. It is painful to watch. It is painful to watch, but I didn't choose him. He wasn't my, he was not my decision. So you guys got to live with it. You've got to, you know, make a couple wishes and, you know, throw a couple coins in the fountain and hope it works out for you. But I think they're just going to have to ride this wave. They're going to have to ride the Biden tsunami. Thirty-six percent of the audience thinks they will continue to be riding with Biden. Thirty-seven percent think they'll try to cancel or postpone the election and twenty-seven percent believe they will replace Joe Biden. Remember a couple weeks ago, Jared, we were talking to, oh, who do we have on? Someone, we were asking them about signs, like bumper stickers and stuff like that. And I said that there's one big sign in my neighborhood. Somebody has a Joe Biden head on their front lawn with glasses on it. And I thought, when do these signs start popping up more? Because now we're getting into the summertime. And nothing's changed. That was a few weeks, maybe in months ago. And there's still just one giant Biden head on one lawn. And I live in a liberal area. So I don't think the support, the enthusiasm is there. Hopefully Robert De Niro, 80-year-old Robert De Niro can turn that around for Joe. We'll be right back. Live from the Aviva Thratria studio. Welcome back, everyone, to the Grace Curly Show. We are going to continue with these cuts. I do find them pretty incredible. Brian Higgins, the ATF agent, I think today was the best testimony so far as far as the cross examination goes. Because on Friday, we did get a little bit of, well, actually the entire morning was devoted to the text messages between Brian Higgins and Karen Reid. And I don't want to seem like I'm not a romantic, but I wasn't moved by it. I just, I was cringed out by it. I didn't enjoy reading these two. And I was trying to explain it to my friend over the weekend. There was a couple of different takeaways people had from last week's testimony. And I'm going to tell you the ones that I heard, Jared. And if you heard different ones, feel free to chime in. One was people were trying to get me if they hadn't walked the trial to explain the text messages. And I really couldn't. I was like, they were very juvenile, immature, cringy messages. They weren't overly sexual or overly, like, are rated or explicit. They just were weird and embarrassing. They were embarrassing for both of them. And the other thing that people mentioned to me was when Brian Higgins was discussing, going to the bar, then going to 34 Fairview, then going to the Canton police station, then going home. I had a lot of people ask me why he made the point to say once he got home, where no one's in his house, no one has a record of what's going on when he's home, why he decided to tell the cops, then I had a couple more drinks before going to bed. Like, why wouldn't that be the time where you just say, then I got home and I went to bed? You have to be so honest about that you continued to have more and more drinks. I think, and I discussed this with Jared, that was his way of trying to seem like, this is how honest I am, that I'm even telling you about the drinks I had once I got home and, you know, chilled out on the couch before I fell asleep. And I either fell asleep on the couch or I fell asleep in my bed. I can't remember, or, you know, whatever. So those were a few things. But for the most part, I thought it was more damaging to Karen Reid, not because it says that she's a murderer, but it was just embarrassing to have these text messages put out there. And to have her talking about John O'Keeves, niece and nephew, and, you know, the issues they're having, their relationship, it was kind of just opening her up. And really, who I felt bad for on Friday, was John O'Keeves parents and his family, that now all of this is out there and, you know, that he was overwhelmed by taking care of his sisters, children, and it was sad to me that they, like, as if they haven't gone through enough. Today's testimony, I think, helps Karen Reid tremendously, because if I'm on this jury, and I'm hearing about this guy who's out drinking Jamesons and gingerails, and he's, you know, he's driving through the town of Canton at all hours in the night, and he's cutting up or destroying sim cards, throwing phones in trash bags, and driving out to military bases to dispose of them, I- Is that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I got a plea ignorance on this thing, because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here, that sort of thing was frowned upon. That's the part that kills me, is he is acting like George Costanza, he's acting like this is a normal occurrence in everyone's life. Who among us hasn't cut up a sim card and destroyed a phone and then brought it to a military base to throw it in the dumpster? Cut through a military base. I'm sorry. Didn't directly drive to the mill. He's cutting through as a shortcut to a military base. I wonder if he put that on his-- Notoriously under-guarded military bases. I wonder if he put that on his ways, you know, at a stop. I do that to mess. At a stop at Dunkin Donuts. How long is this going to add to my route? Let me add in military base with dumpster for me to dispose of my old phone that I destroyed and I can't remember how I destroyed it. I was talking to the mill our manager. She made a good point. He actually might not remember how he destroyed it. That could be him telling the truth. He might not know if he cut up the sim card or whatever, because these people, their memories are very foggy. So now he's talking about this. If I'm on the jury, Jared, I am saying to myself, what are these people hiding? Like, I don't know if they did something, but I would feel compelled to give Karen Reid the benefit of the doubt and say, "There's a chance she's not guilty and there's something going on with these people." Drinking all these dark liqueurs and cutting up sim cards. That's a recipe for disaster in my mind. Yeah, a bunch of drunk people all hang out together. Excuse me. We used the correct terminology on The Grace Curly Show. How dare you? You're a lawyer. Booze bags. Sorry. A bunch of Booze bags hanging out destroying sim cards, you know, sending dogs away. Rehoming. Rehoming. Rehoming. Canines. I mean, this is definitely a shadow. This is several shadows of doubt for me. Can we actually go back, Jared? I know we already played this one, but I think it's worth repeating here. How much he's trying to separate himself from the sim card and the trash bag. Can I get cut for? And you'll agree with me that you took that destroyed sim card and put it in a trash bag. Did you not? I believe it went in a trash bag, yes. Well, you used a passive voice. It went in a trash bag. Did it fly out of your hand unexpectedly into a trash bag, sir? No, sir. It would have been disposed of with the phone. No, I understand. But are you reluctant to say that you put it in a trash bag, sir? Jackson. Can you answer that? Are you reluctant to say no? No, Your Honor. I put it in a trash bag. I'm proud of it. I put it in that damn trash bag. I showed that phone who's boss. You don't seem proud of it. Usually if you're proud of something, Jared, you don't go out of your way to kind of obfuscate what's happening. I believe that gold medal found its way around my neck on a podium. Can I have cut? We got to repeat this one, too, because the military base is very important to this story. He chooses to cut through a military base in order to get rid of the phone and the sim card in the trash bag. The phone and the sim card that teamed up together. What a deadly combination. Joined hands, jumped into the trash bag, and then the trash bag. Here's the craziest part for those of you falling at home. The trash bag sprouted legs of its own and walked to the car. It was actually hanging in the back of the trunk of Brian Higgins' vehicle, saw the military base, said pull on over, and then jumped into the dumpster. It's a tale as old as time, isn't it? Can I have cut five, please? Oh, with my trash. And then you also took your phone now without the sim card, and you put that in the trash bag, too. Did you not? Yes, sir. Then you drove to a military base, and you threw both the destroyed sim card and the phone into a dumpster. Did you not? Well, I was cutting through the base, and I believed how I tested a five was... Did you drive to a military base, sir? I was cutting through a base, yes. Did you drive to it? Yes, sir. And then you put both the destroyed sim card and the phone itself, which were in a trash bag into a dumpster on that military base, did you not? I believed that's what I did, yes. And as you were driving away, you knew that that destroyed sim card and the phone would be gone forever, correct? Yes, I threw it away. He seems to be very caught up in the semantics of cutting through the military base versus driving to it. And I really, in this case, I think the important part is you got in a vehicle and you found yourself at a military base, specifically near a dumpster. I don't think it really matters if it was just one stop of many, although I am curious now, because I'm curious like a cat. Where was the next stop? Like if this was just because what he's implying, Jared, is what he's implying here is I was cutting through the military base, right, which implies I'm going somewhere. I was going somewhere else. I noticed the dumpster. I said, hey, there's a dumpster in a military base. This would be a good time to get rid of this bag in the backseat. And I mean, as an ATF agent, he probably had clearance to be on a military base. So I'm sure there was no issue with that. So it may have occurred to him, oh, hey, I've been there, I know like I get it. Isn't that frightening and in and of itself, but again, this man has access to military bases. Yikes. Um, yeah, I want to know where the next destination was since this wasn't the priority. This was just something, you know, that he thought of, you know, it's like me when I drive around with my, the clothes I need to bring to the dry cleaners. And then once in a while, I say, Hey, look at that. I'm going to the grocery store, but the dry cleaners is right here. I'll take the bag out and I'll, I'll get one thing done. Kill two birds with one stone. What was the other bird in this situation that this was his first stop? Perhaps it was a bar. Perhaps it was something else. Let's have cut six, please. It was important to you that no one see those text exchanges that you had with those three members of the Albert family. You took no steps to preserve those text messages. Did you? That's correct. You did not ask your friend, Matt Kelch, the agent to help you extract those text messages. Did you? That's correct. And when you went to that machine, you did not extract them yourself. Did you? He walked me through it. I did do the extraction. You did not extract the three strands of text messages with Nicole Albert, Kevin Albert, and Brian Albert to preserve from that machine. Did you not? No, I did not extract those. Yeah, I thought it was important. I thought it was weird to begin with. If I'm part of the cat and PD or from part of this investigation and this dude shows up and he was with all these people that night and he says, Hey, I really want to extract some of these text messages just in case you guys need them. I think it'll be important to the investigation immediately for me, Jared. I'm thinking that's weird. It's like the latter he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons. Why me thinks, another quote me thinks the Higgins doth protest too much. Why are you so forthcoming with specific text messages that maybe paint you in a good light or you think clear your name and diminish someone else's but when it comes to these other text messages, then you go to the total opposite end of the spectrum and you destroy the SIM card and the phone and you dispose of it in a military base. Why does it have to be one or the other? You're in there with the extraction team with this scalpel being like, make sure you take out these text messages because it would be a shame if you didn't have access to them. Now I want to be very helpful to this investigation versus going full hill or a Clinton getting rid of all the yoga emails and the wedding planning emails. There's got to be a happy medium. These can't be our only options when an investigation breaks out. The military based dumpster or going phone in hand asking for specific text chains to be extracted. Weird. Yes, Trump would say it's weird. We've got one more from Yannetty with Higgins. This is cut seven. You knew when you were throwing that phone and the destroyed SIM card in the dumpster that from that day forward, no one would ever be able to access the content of what you and Brian Albert have discussed by text messages on your old phone, correct? Hey buddy. Yeah, this is not a good look for Brian Higgins or the McAlberts at all. And I think that, you know, I kept focusing on the house long to die in cold. And I haven't forgotten that because thus far that for me was the most impactful cross examination is when Jackson had up the prompter and he said, can you scroll up and we saw that two 27 a.m. Google search. This to me though is very, I won't say just as damaging, but it definitely would leave me scratching my head. What are you so afraid of that you're running around like a mad man trying to dispose of the cell phone? I've never heard of anyone cutting up SIM cards, destroying, putting them in trash bags. He's acting like this is just an everyday occurrence. So I found out my cell phone number was public, so these were the obvious next steps. Yeah. And again, I mean, just taking this as a whole, destroyed phones, destroyed SIM cards, thrown away on military bases, searches for how long to die in cold when there's a dead body in the cold. All of this stuff seems pretty funky and not in the normal course of a day. If you look at it as a whole, like if somebody searches hustle on to die in the cold, okay, you're curious, whatever. But if there's an actual body in the cold, I can't suspend my disbelief enough on that one. There's a lot of coincidences in Canton. Did you see that? Did you see by the way, the meme of welcome to Canton, Massachusetts, but dial capital of the United States? There's been a lot of great memes about this and TikToks and things like that are reels, I should say, eight four four five hundred forty two forty two. We will come back with these. We have more because then Lallie starts to question Higgins and eventually gets back to you, Nettie, who's asking about this new phone and new number, but I'm curious what people think. I'm curious if you are on the side of. If you think this is damaging for Karen Reed or if you think this is a very, very good day for the Reed team, I tend to think that Brian Higgins is making a fool of himself up there with all these explanations of how the phone in the SIM card got in a bag. Most people won't even know how to find the SIM card on their phone, especially people his age. No offense, not trying to age shame, let alone cutting it up and driving into a military base. Did he, did he Google that? Did he have Jennifer McCabe, Google house long to cut up SIM card and drop in dumpster? How many dumpsters are at this military base? I mean, to be fair, he is in a government agency, so everything is shady, but still. Well, that was the other takeaway this weekend when I was discussing this with people, it's like all these law enforcement officials just driving around, bombed out of their minds, you know, and they're, oh, I had to go back to the Campbell East Asian because the plow, and I had to make sure the cars, why don't you just get an Uber and go home? Do us all a favor, you're on, and this is something I'm very serious about. You're on the road, you could kill somebody. Does that have any, is that going to get a separate trial? All these people driving around drunkest guns? Probably not. We'll be right back. We got a lot more to get to. Don't go anywhere. Hi, it's Toby from Cape Gun Works. I'm taking all your firearm and self-defense questions every Tuesday. Join Grace and me for 2 a Tuesday, Tuesdays at 2 p.m. [MUSIC] >> This is The Grace Curly Show. [MUSIC] >> Welcome back everyone to The Grace Curly Show. We don't have a ton of time in this segment. I don't know who's fault that is. Couldn't be fine. But I will take a call here, and then when we come back, we'll have some time to go over more of the sound from the Brian Higgins testimony today at the Karen Retrial. And also we'll circle back to that Robert De Niro sound and some of the response, including Carl Rope, who thinks it was a major disaster for Team Biden. But let's go to Eddie, your next up on The Grace Curly Show. What's going on, Eddie? >> Hey, Grace, I'm glad to talk to you, and that's a difference between North Shore girls and South Shore girls. You've seen it right there on court. But when I bought my son a new phone, I took his phone, right? And his new phone came with no SIMCOT, but mine had a SIMCOT, and I had a hard time finding it over the paper clip or a safety pen to locate where the SIMCOT was, to take it out. And you would remember little things like that. And the one thing is when he remembered the text arrows that Karen retent him, like text arrows, like in opposite directions, do you remember that comment? >> I don't remember that comment. >> That you mentioned. >> Yeah, yeah, he said on his text, he sent arrows back and forth, which way she's going. I don't know, but if you look back, it was mentioned. And you can remember little things like that, but can't remember other things. >> Well, I don't know if it's because he's looking at the text, they have him on the prompter, but there are some weird details that he does remember, and he's very honest about like the fact that he comes home and has a few more drinks before going to bed. And then you're right about the SIMCART situation, he gets foggy about that. And if I took out a SIMCART and destroyed it, I would remember how I destroyed it. I would remember taking the SIMCART out. I wouldn't even know how to do that. And I think I'm pretty hip to the groove, not as hip as Brian Higgins.