[MUSIC] No offense to John Schneider, but Isaiah kind of fell off more than just a baseball player. He's a human being with feelings, he does other things. >> No, disagree. >> Baseball players, just as a profession, human. >> Anyways, fan morning show, sports M5.9 of the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning. So not the Blue Jays care, but the line of the running right now is kind of the way I run it. Like there's not too many changes I'd make. I don't know about you Brent, so like, I guess righties, I only have one little quibble and it's sure than a little one because it would take a massive change in the roster by which I mean somebody probably being DFA to do it. But like, yeah, the idea of Schneider, Janssen, Vlad, Bo, and your top four, that works for me. I don't know where the change would be. I mean, Danny Janssen can't play every day, so I guess that would be the question when you do with the two hole when he's not playing. >> And just slide those guys up, that's what I do. >> Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. Yeah, instead of putting Dalton Varsho in the two hole, which they've done occasionally against righties. >> And like, it's working, so I'm not changing it. But I could be talked into just sliding those two up and having Janssen be your clean up hitter as well. Like he's going so well that you don't do that, but I think ultimately that's probably closer to where this settles. >> Yeah, I agree. The one area that I think anybody with eyeballs. >> Okay, I got a couple. >> I wear glasses though, so it's like do without what you will. It's like I could see really well, but without them not, but I have a month. So against righties, you need a new DH, and I'm well against lefties. Do you need a new DH, you need a new DH, and until you call up Spencer Horowitz, there's no perfect candidate, not that Spencer Horowitz is very bonds or like a perfect candidate, but better than what you're getting out of the DH spot right now where the combined OPS of Daniel Vogelbach and Justin Turner is like 200. No, it's not quite that low, but it's like 600. So yeah, I would throw Spencer Horowitz in there as your five hole hitter right now. >> You can make the argument for me, I know it's tough because it's now become the most important spot in Major League Baseball hitting second. But you can make the argument to me, I would probably make it to you that Spencer Horowitz if the on base skills are real, which they appeared to be even in the Major League's last season that Spencer Horowitz hit in second with Danny Jansen, as you mentioned, hitting behind Vlad and Bo also makes sense. But outside of that, George Springer seems to have found a hole in the bottom of the lineup. Maybe like hit him sixth, Dalton Varsho, seventh, I mean, again, like taking the pressure off these guys and just allowing them to hit their, in the case of Varsho, a home run, a week or whatever, like you can't remove like there's no argument to be taken. Isaiah kind of fella out of the everyday third baseman rule and then Kevin Kiermaier with the defense that you get and you know, the the occasional base hit that you get from him and probably not going to replicate what he did last season offensively. But yeah, I think that's like as much as I screened about George Springer, get him out of the lead-off spot. They finally did that. I don't have too many complaints about the lineup right now except for that one spot. Yeah, I don't either. It's just funny. You mentioned Kiermaier that Detroit weekend series was so bad. We didn't even talk about him and Varsho nearly running into each other doing the thing. They're supposed to be both like the best in the world that that was not great. So hey, got that other system. I don't think that's going to happen again this year. I'm with you there. The only thing and it's like I it's a question I am fine with ultimately ending up there. But how do you feel about putting a guy in what be at the five spot if it's Horowitz coming up and you're right into the fire there? Like how do you feel about like letting a guy get his feet wet and then maybe it is Varsho there and then you have Springer six then you can kind of slot Horowitz and like how would you feel about that? I don't think I do not much like we said earlier on the show. I do not want Springer going right back to the lead off spot because he had a good four or five days, but I'm okay with moving him up one spot. Yeah, I think Spencer Horowitz is is the one of the three guys that we we view as like the bison's trio, right? It's like a Ralphus Martina as it's Addison Barger. It's Spencer Horowitz. He's the one of the three who just like by virtue of being older and also by virtue of already seeing the major leagues of baseball and not being like an overwhelming like he didn't Davis Schneider it up, but I think he had like a 360 on base in his limited opportunity where he was not an everyday player. Like I think the fact that the major leagues have been demystified. I wouldn't worry too much about him having an elevated spot as opposed to Addison Barger who yeah, like you got to hit him in the bottom three of the lineup. I think if a Ralphus Martina shows up, you got to do the same thing. He's only 22 years old. I think I think Spencer Horowitz is a different dude. All right. Time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley North Lexus dot com. Today's insider Ben Nicholson Smith sports at MLB insider and Blue Jays reporter as well as the coast of the at the letters podcast. How's it going, Benny? Pretty good. How are you guys today? Doing doing. All right. Blue Jays season be going a lot better if they got to play the White Sox more. It turns out White Sox are quite bad and that's a team Blue Jays compete. Yeah, it's a real weak spot on the schedule. That's for sure. And Jason making the White Sox look like the White Sox. And that's good. That's what you should be doing. Yeah. They have a little more work to do today on that front, but yeah, you should you should beat this team. They should also beat up on the pirates this weekend. And yeah, these are teams that are very, very beatable. Yes, they are. And not too many have been for the Blue Jays this season, but clearly the worst White Sox team in the history of their franchise. Yeah, that's one you should at least win two to three, which they've already clinched and possibly sweep away tonight in Chicago. Let's talk about the news of the day yesterday that Eric Swanson is the odd man out that he's option. Right? Like clearly there was a move that had to be made with Chad Green joining the team before yesterday's game. He was going to be activated for yesterday's game. There were other guys that you could have done. And I don't think anybody would have been screaming if like Nate Pearson had been the guy optioned or even Zach Pop. I might have been closer to screaming if it was Zach Pop because he's performed pretty well since getting the call up. But like you could make the argument is like, yeah, Nate Pearson's had some moments. He's also had some real blow ups this season. You could have had it not be Eric Swanson. I think by merit, it had to be Eric Swanson. But boy, I kind of give this organization kudos for doing it with that guy. The performance he had a season ago and how much they have invested in him, obviously as the key part of the Teoska Hernandez trade. Yeah. It was a surprising move to me because Swanson had had five consecutive squirrels appearances before Monday where he hung a couple more splitters and really did not look good. Ultimately, because the Blue Jays bullpen has been so ineffective this year, objectively one of the worst in baseball, when it comes to doing their job, they have a lot of choices of guys that you could option and there's still have some choices of guys that you could option. Yeah, and this is Cabrera, I would also like to that list. But yeah, they went with Swanson. And I do think it reflects a level of urgency and a desire to win now and to really push competitively. Now, is that going to be enough? Is this too little, too late? We will see. Right? You know, there's still some time. They still need to really reel something off pretty quickly here if this is going to turn around. But yeah, I do think you want it to be a meritocracy. And I think there have been times this year where, let's say with spring or a lead off, it didn't seem to be a meritocracy. It seemed to be, but this team had already decided who was going to hit where because of contract or because of what they've done in the past, and it didn't seem to be based in the present moment. So this is a better approach where you base it on what the players are doing in the present moment. And Swanson, unfortunately, has had a lot of struggles with the... What do you think has caused that turn? Because we've noticed the shift as well. I mean, I think you highlight the two best examples of it there. Springer no longer being in the lead off spot and then Swanson being ultimately the odd man out. Do you think it's just the math of the season kind of eventually getting it to them? I mean, that piece of yours from, I can't remember if it was over the weekend or late last week where you laid out just they have to play effectively 97 win baseball from here on out. What do you think has got them to the point of a urgency? Is it just kind of the space or the kind of spot in the calendar we're at? Or do you think there's something else at play? And what I mean by that, I'll just be frank about it, is the future of the front office if things don't go well here. Well, it's interesting. In some ways, they've actually been operating with the sense of urgency for much of the season. It just hasn't worked. Like, for instance, with Kevin Gosman, he was hard to start the year. He has said that he probably should have started on the intro play. And yet, there was a pressure felt by Gosman and by a blue-taste decision-makers that, hey, we got to try to get this guy, even if he said 70, 75%, we got to try to break camp with him because he said he could picture he's so important to our team. And Bowdoin Francis was already in the rotation at that point, too. Right. Bowdoin Francis was already in. So they felt they needed him and they went with him, even though he was not 100%. And then they did something similar with bringing back Jordan Romano and Swanson when they came back off the entry list early in the season. And this is before everyone was in panic mode, you know, by everyone, I mean, the fan base. Yes. So at that point, the front office with respect to their pitching was operating with the sense of urgency. Now, those two moves did not work, but the urgency was there. Then you can look at the position player's side and I've seen them operate differently there and specifically with respect to Springer in Vogelback, they have shown immense amounts of patience to these guys. So, you know, we've seen, and you know, no surprise, it's a team with a ton of decisions and a ton of players. And, you know, there's not going to be necessarily one single, uniform approach, but there has been nuance to how the Blue Jays have operated here. No, it's good context and yeah, I hadn't thought about it, but you're absolutely right when it comes to the pitching that they have operated with the sense of urgency, the position player side, I mean, I would add another, like, David Schneider to me seemed like an everyday player earlier than he eventually did become. But yeah, let's talk about the DH side of things because that's the one remaining area where like, okay, is this a meritocracy or not? Because those guys stank right now and if you were going to look like you fell off a cliff and 39 years old and you were cooked, you would look like, I think, outside of the base hit that Justin Turner had yesterday, it's like, you would look like a lot of the at-bats Justin Turner is taking right now, Daniel Vogelbach is Daniel Vogelbaching, so like, that's not a surprise to me. That's the last area, right? Like, when can we move, I mean, giving up on Justin Turner probably unrealistic at this point in the season, but like Daniel Vogelbach can be DFA like yesterday, it's no big deal to me, at least. I mean, obviously, personally, like a human being, you don't want somebody to lose their job, but that's kind of the nature of the beast here, like, at what point can the Blue Jays say, all right, enough's enough with the current DH situation. Well, I mean, I think it could be today as well, like, personally, because Spencer Horowitz has done, I heard you guys talking about him and said it's coming on, you know, he has done a really nice job of AAA, I agree with what you guys were saying, or he has had the major league to demystify to some extent, he hit below, if you look at the advanced numbers of AAA, he has been hitting 95 plus fastballs well, his projections are good, and he can play a little defense, so, you know, that's, I mean, a little defense, but, you know, that's more than what you're getting from Vogelbach, so, you know, this is, this, to me, is a player that you could comfortably put into a major league lineup, and I've talked to Blue Jays people for months now who agree with that, it's not that they doubt his back, they like what he offers offensively, and he's 26 years old, you don't have to worry about his, in my opinion, you don't have to worry about your peace plan two days a week, that's sort of three or four, hard time play, yeah, figure it out, it's, so yeah, so, I mean, I'm sold on match, now, what I think doesn't matter, it matters what the matter is to me, well, thank you, but it matters what the Blue Jays think, and, you know, ultimately, they seem to, to like what Daniel Vogelbach offers, A, with the bat, and he has had some pretty good heart contact recently in the last, like, week or ten days, it's been better, so, okay, and he's a guy who's really well liked within that club, that's for what that's worth, no, I don't think that should drive decisions, but yeah. Yeah, make him a coach, yeah, D.F.A.M. and then say, hey, do you want to retire, you can, you can be, you say, Kikuchi's best friend, I can put you in a uniform, that's fine, like, whatever, I, yeah, no, I think you kind of got a hit, and not that this guy is the answer either, but, like, what the hell's going on with Joey Votto, like, what is this thing, like, what is, what is this, like, what does the organization think of what's happening there, because it just feels like a guy that was like, hey, like, I'm kind of bored, I don't want to retire, I like being, you know, in baseball still, can I just, like, go hang out at your, at your minor league facilities for a while, like, I assume he's doing something, but like, didn't we hear, like, even a week ago, he's like, he's gonna play in a minor league game soon, don't you worry, like, what is going on with Joey Votto? Yeah, I mean, clearly, the ankle injury he sustained in March was much more serious than we were led to belief at the time, and I think, I mean, it's clear the Blue Jays are not in the position where they can count on him for anything, so they are not counting on him for anything. If he gets into games and produces and there's an opportunity in the majors, maybe we see him, but it were a long way from that happening. So I think at this point, you know, you look at the, you look at the three DHs they signed right between Turner, Bobo back, and Joey Votto, and it's looking like, over three, right? That is an, that is an 0 for three for the Blue Jays, and that's in theory, a position where you take three shots, I mean, you hope to get hopeful, you know, cause something, like, you know, that's part of the reason they are where they are, because their off-season has really not, IKF has been a solid addition, right? So IKF is not the problem with this, but otherwise, Chad Green is barely pitched. Yereo Rodriguez has been injured. The DHs they signed have done nothing. Keer Meyer is having it down in your offense, at least. So all these guys that they added have essentially amounted, I haven't added up the war, but I guess the war is like 0.5 war. Yeah, I just don't like the sentence of the three DHs they signed. I'll be honest with you, like, just starting, starting there. It doesn't really matter if it's like Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire and whoever, like, I just don't even like that sentence to begin with for a team that prides itself on defensive versatility and everybody being able to play somebody's spots. Obviously, the uptick in offense from this team, it's coming a few spots, it's come from David Schneider in the lead off spot, Danny Jansen hitting the cover off of the ball. Where do we think this team is at with their approach to Danny Jansen? I mean, I don't expect anybody to in baseball to start selling off anytime soon. But I also think it's going to be pretty hard to find a contract that makes sense for him in season. Do you have any read on kind of where the Blue Jays are at with Jansen and when they'll kind of have to make a decision on to really, you know, kick contract talks and overdrive or really kind of look at the trade market because it feels like you can't lose that guy for for nothing and that'd be very possible this offseason if he doesn't get signed in season. Yeah, because you're not going to qualify him, so you're not going to get a draft pick back. I mean, with Kakushi, you could qualify him and you'd get a draft pick, but yeah, it's so the decision can wait until at least all start break because that's really the only in season window for extensions that teams regularly take advantage of. So, you know, you can take a few days in early to mid July and see if there's common ground to be found, you know, and then if there's not, then that would give the Blue Jays the information they need to have to approach the trade market. So that's how I would do it. I think that that's how your team has done it in the past as well. So we're six weeks out from the off break right now, so it's kind of like a lot of things with this team where, you know, of course, we all kind of want answers, but we can look at the likelihood and the likelihood is the Jays playoff odds are around 19%, just over 19% right now. So there's an 80% chance they're not making the playoffs, so you know, which kind of lines up with how it feels right now. It's about the same as the Tigers. The Tigers have, you know, playoff odds in that same range. We just saw the Tigers, right, for four games. Is that a playoff team? I don't think so. You know, they have great pitching, but they can't have bad weather, so this isn't the Tigers. But, you know, we'll see is the point. You got to play it out and you'll know a lot more in a month, but in the meantime, they've got to take advantage of these windows against these against these inferior teams and really beat up on them to give themselves a little bit of a chance. The risk of asking you a question that I want answered, Hey, you were right. How good can David Schneider be? Like this is he's the second best hitter on this team as far as WRC plus is concerned. He's third best as far as war is concerned. He's had his dips, but then he bounces right back like what? What do the blue Jays like legitimately have in David Schneider? Yeah. I mean, best case scenario, he's like a max monthly, right? And that would be wild, you know, best case scenario, he's like a Justin Turner, like, you know, and again, I mean, that's putting Justin Turner as like a whole, a very good player. So maybe, maybe a month he is like the better clump, but you know, you think about, okay, guys who can really hit don't really have a position, David Schneider, not really the offensive player, but he can take the field for you. Yes. And he's a professional and he just gives you a really good up at with power. He just knows who he is as a hitter. It's similar to Danny Jansen, great, great approach swings at the right pitches, gets the ball in the air and does damage. I mean, it's so easy to say. It's so tough to do, especially with the caliber of pitching across the league right now. It's a very, very tough environment for hitters right now. And despite that, David Schneider has thrived and this is a point four months into his majorly career spanning back to last August, where pitchers and pitching coaches and all the technology and AI that goes into going up against majorly hitters, they hit their chances to make adjustments to David Schneider and to figure out ways to get him out and they haven't really done it. It's a very consistent system. So he's a really important player for the team, obviously one of the best draft picks in the history of this front office and someone who's really important to their chances of turning this thing. That's a great answer. I didn't hear you say you were right, Ben. No, you, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, I can't have his ego get any bigger on this. David Schneider, you know, yeah, Attaboy, Attaboy, yeah, shift maybe as sailed on Alejandro Kirk. I don't know what happened. Yeah, but then I can't say anything to mean about him or Alec Manoa will come for me. So it's like, there's a finite area I can go there guys, anyways, Benny, thanks for doing this, buddy. Anytime, guys, it was Ben Nicholson Smith, our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. You want to know, David Schneider is 162 game average. I bet, I bet you have it tattooed on your forehead at this point in time. It's tough because it changes every day, but I don't know. It's like a living tattoo. You just like every morning you go, you have a personal guy, he's waiting down there with the tattoo gun. He just scratches out the eight. Yeah. It's easy to do his 162 game averages because he's now played in his majorly career 82 games. So just, just north of a half a season worth of a baseball and he's got an OBS, a 914. So his 162 game average. So if he played every day at the rate that he's played over the span of two seasons and now a larger sample this year than he had last season, 47 games this year, 169 played appearances this year as compared to 35 games and 141 season ago, over 162 games, a full season, David Schneider keeping up what he's doing, he's hidden 265 with a 381 on base, a 533 slug, that's a 914 OBS, 28 home runs, 85 walks, 172 strikeouts, everybody strikes out, but yeah, he getting on base at a near 400 clip and nearly 30 home runs from a guy that can play two different positions. He's not a gold gloverer at either position and I would say that it's the miscues have been a little more notable in left field when he's had them than it's second base. But my God, when you're doing that in the in the offensive environment that exists in majorly baseball in 2024, yeah, man, that's, that's a player. Well, and it's also you're doing it on the Blue Jays team. So yeah, like you do that for any ball club and they want you the blue Jays, they need you there. Yeah, you know what, I'll say it. You were right. It wasn't like, okay, it felt like I was going out on a limb. It wasn't. This is this is me every year when everyone's like, the leaves are going to miss the playoffs. And I'm like, no, they always make it. They're going to make it. And I'm just like, yeah, everyone's like, oh, it's a bold stance. I'm like, OK, if you say so, yeah, let's just use the evidence at our disposal. Like there's people working hard at baseballreference.com that keep the pages up and running and like shoveling coal in there. I'd imagine it was like, you know, make them feel good about the job that they're doing by looking at their pages where it said David Schneider was a guy that took walks and hit home runs throughout the course of his minorly career. Now, what it also said, yeah, because I had a lot of people saying, but this Ernie Clement, what a dynamic duo, David Schneider and Ernie Clement. And what I caution people with was like also Ernie Clement, not a young pop, like he's had a long professional track record, even reached the major leagues with the team not named the Toronto Blue Jays, where he wasn't that good. And guess what? The course of his minorly career, they hit for like a higher average than David Schneider, not a ton of walks and like no power. And OK, if he's going to be this incredible glove man, sure, yeah, be it, but you can't be committing multiple errors on routine plays in the same game. Like honestly, like once it was just like do that ever, but he's already done it twice this season. He's another guy like, yeah, no offense to Ernie Clement, but got to clear up a roster spot. There's him. There's Daniel Vogelbach. I mean, down the line when you can trade away Justin Turner, there's Justin Turner. There are areas to make that happen. But yeah, no, I'm not surprised necessarily that David Schneider has kept this up and every turn where people are ready to start doubting and where you go through like a little trough, and he's still taking walks, but like striking out and not hitting home runs. But like, I think we're getting away from it now. But like early on, it was like, OK, finally, the slipper fell off and it's over for David Schneider. But this he just keeps bouncing back. He keeps adjusting. He keeps getting himself in good hitters counts. When he does, by and large, he hits the middle middle fastball that he's looking for. Generally speaking, gives you some semblance of pop on the team that lacks a ton of it. So this doesn't exist on the baseball reference page. If they want to add it, add in a column for this, I certainly would enjoy it. Has elite baseball face looks like a ball player. Like he leads them. No, but it's like it's the like shorter, squaddier nature as well. Like he just has elite looks like he was born to play this game face. Yeah. And implement less so like not like not enhance them, but like doesn't look as much like a ball player. It's the glasses. It's the all of it. Yeah. It's not a bad take. Yeah. He's not as good as he was in the like 30 plus games last season. But there's areas that he actually has been better. Like the average exit velocity is higher this season than it was a season ago. Hard hit percentage higher than it was a season ago. Can he overcome finding out that he has slow bat speed though? Like if Justin Turner, someone must have told him and it's like Dave Schneider does not have elite bat speed. Hopefully no one tells him. It feels like a guy that very much knows himself and he's like, yeah, I get that lean into it. But no, why they give me one. That's why he has to get himself in predictable counts and then do damage when he gets there. Mm hmm. All right. As mentioned earlier in the show, Jane's addiction along with love and rockets will be performing at Budweiser stage on September 18th, then we are giving away tickets to enter for a chance to win text in today's code word. Jane's addiction to 59590 again, that's Jane's addiction to 59590. We are giving away another pair of tickets tomorrow. But if you don't win with us, make sure to secure your tickets on Friday, 10 a.m. on ticketmaster.ca. When we come back, Brent is going to have us all like shedding our skin in like in in in correctness. Oh my God. How can a person be so right? We're going to feel so embarrassed when he brings his Andy DuFrain actually killed his wife theory to Adnan Burke, he of MLB network and the cinephile podcast as the fan morning show continues. This is Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jay's talk plus with Blake Murphy, be sure to subscribe and download Jay's talk on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning show Sportsnet 590, the fan Ben and his Brent Gunning. I know we're focused on the Blue Jays and their struggles this season and at last check when the Blue Jays were facing the Yankees, they didn't seem like a close enough matchup and the Blue Jays actually should have swept them away. They blew a lead late in that final game of that three game set at Rogers Center. But since then the Yankees have looked like the best team in baseball. Yeah, they are who they we thought they were. They they they just like plainly lead the major leagues of baseball and ERA. There's 37 and 19 when we saw the Yankees Aaron Judge was going through some struggles in not struggling so much. One sort of never struggles his whole career has just been like one big non struggle. Yeah, anytime a struggle comes his way, you know what he does, he just watches it go by and then he does his little shuffle every time he's like, yeah, I don't want that. No, I don't I'm not going to engage with that. Yeah, no, thank you. Juan Soto says the struggles. Yeah, he's got a league leading 408 on base percentage and 15 home runs 989 OBS. He's going to be just fine and free agency and seems, but yeah, that's that's at the tippy top of the division. Blue Jays don't have to worry about that. They're worrying about being the third wildcard team in the American League. All right, let's talk to Adnan Burke, our pal MLB network and the cinephile podcast. How's it going? Adnan. Ben Brent, great to shout the voice. Hope you had a great to make two for as we call it back home, Victoria Day weekend. All is well here. Good to hear that. Adnan, we'll get to the baseball in just a second, but like I don't sometimes we do interviews with people and we're like, Oh, we want to get to this thing. And then we leave it till too late, especially in this segment where like we literally have to sign off the, the air at like 8 55. So let's just get to the thing that I want to ask you about. And it involves Brent's take when it comes to Shawshank redemption. Go ahead, Brent. The floor is yours. All right. So Adnan, you know, as a, my understanding is you're like a bit of a movie buff. You've watched one or two. Okay. The, the great film Shawshank Redemption, one of my favorites, you know, Tim Robbins, Morgan Freeman, Andy Dufresne, the case of a wrongfully convicted man. Or is it? Are we sure, Adnan, that Andy Dufresne is innocent and did not kill his wife? Cause I'm not so certain movie starts. He's drunk. He's holding a gun. We just are going to go on his word that he threw at the cops and never found it. Guy's been proven to be able to hide things later on in the movie. It's like, Oh, this lunatic is laughing in a strange way. Let's take his word for it that he's the guy who really did it. That is my take that I am not positive that Andy Dufresne is some virtuous, innocent man. I think he killed his wife. Oh my God. Isn't it horrible? That is an incredible take. I mean, at this point, you might as well just start pouring cold water on everything, right? Richard Kimball actually killed his wife. You just don't have all the great miscarriages of justice and say that they were guilty all along. I've never given it serious. I've never had anyone else ever say the Andy Dufresne guilty, but I've been years by it, Brett. I love the contrarian take. It makes you want to go watch the shawshik redemption again, but he's got a temper. Don't we all? I've never thought to myself, Andy Dufresne is guilty. That's a hell of a take. You know why you didn't? Because the movie doesn't work if he's guilty. The whole thing is he's an innocent man who spent 20 plus years at Shawshank Prison and you're happy he got out. Like, why are we happy a murderer got out of prison? I don't know. I've been asking myself this the whole time. Like, yeah, the movie makes no sense if he's guilty. That's why you never thought about it. No, I disagree. I think he held a sequel, the shot, held a sequel, Brett, the shawshik redemption too. Andy's back in prison, it looks like he's been wrongfully convicted, but this can be actually been, and he cops the first murder as well, still breaks out. Amazing. You could have read, you could have the movie start with him tearfully confessing to read and then read being like, Oh my God, who is this guy? I thought I knew you. Oh, why didn't I have to go this way? All right. Now you've talked me into it. Now I do want to see you. I'm going to be listening to you. Get busy living or get busy. I'm going to get busy. Get you to prison. All right, now you're sold me on it. Yeah, I love it. And yeah, the reason they're caught is because they're on the boat that they're polishing up. Yeah, I don't know. They run ashore or something. I know. Yeah, it's a great idea. I love it. All right. Okay. Back to baseball for a second. I'm glad I didn't hear I was wrong in there just for the record. I said that. I don't listen to you though. Yeah. All right. So Juan Soto doing everything you could have wanted him to do and more if you're the New York Yankees and like you shouldn't be you shouldn't be surprised if you've watched the entirety of Juan Soto's career. So we talked about this at the time when Blue Jays were all hot for a show. Hey, Otani like doesn't want Soto kind of make more sense for them. But okay, Otani and there's other things involved with the Otani experience, right? Like capitalizing on the Asian market, like the marketability of that unique player and especially if he ever returns to pitching at the level that he previously did. So Juan Soto plays pretty good defense as well. Why can't any is only 25? Like that's the stupid part. He's 25. Like why can't Juan Soto get the show? Hey, Otani contract if if your Scott Boris, isn't that what you're asking for? You're saying this guy. Okay. He doesn't pitch. He's younger than that guy. And okay, Otani's pretty good hitter himself. But like Juan Soto has the longer track record, frankly, of being this offensive guy. I wouldn't you ask for the Otani money? I know your beloved the family of things ever don't work out then. I'm sure you have a job with Scott Boris corporation with what's going to take. He's going to love hearing it. He should get out. He should love to say, Oh, Tommy type money. I don't think he'll be that lucky to do raise a good point, which is that when Otani turned down 50 years and $440 million, it was considerable backlash, right? People can say how greedy is this guy? But the issue was the AV, $29.3 million a year, the average annual value, which if you look at his production where other guys were, Scott was saying, no, I kind of wish you the 440. I don't like the 29.3, he's beginning 35 or $36 million a year. So to your point, he then slumps right with San Diego relatively speaking about his standards. And I was like, well, he's never going to get that contract again. Now how much do you want to bet? He's going to get over $440 million to be a higher AAB than 29.3. And I would argue it's going to be, let's say a 10 year, $500 million contract. Now you're throwing out a ton, that'd be 10 years, $700 million. I don't know if it goes quite that high, but to your point, let's just look at hitters. Both these guys are incredible hitters, both these guys right now, arguably the MVPs of their leagues. And as you said, Otani is a little bit older than Soto. And there's no reason to feel like Soto's skills will decline anytime soon. He's actually been a better defender this year than in years past, you know, his base running is fine. He's, you know, he's not there for those reasons. He can match and there's no question about it. I think with Otani, as you said, because he's a unicorn, because he can pitch, because of the huge untapped Asian market, that's why you'll count for more money. But yeah, I think Soto's going to get a deal which clearly is an eclipse air and judge, which is nine years, 360. I think it'll clearly eclipse what he was offered, which is $440. And he's proven that he's worth it. Now I've heard some scuttlebutt, people throwing back that these long term deals never work out. But it's a fraction of, let's say, Max Scherzer would have mastered seven year, $10 million country. Normally these contracts don't work out. And now I would argue Bryce Harper has so far, 13 years, a million dollars. That's been great. But whatever. Fernando Tatasio, there's been a bunch that obviously generally speak, they don't work out. But I think if you're going to give a big contract, you look at the age and the track record. And for Soto, he's young enough and has proven it up in a relatively short amount of time on the big stage for the National's in the World Series that he is that guy that's worthy of that lofty contract. And it's interesting how, how Steinberg went from saying, yeah, we want him here to one saying, well, he can call Scott anytime he wants. And then how Steinberg said, last week, well, listen, we're kind of up against it right now. But like, if that very quickly went from like, we're going to stop this guy like that, you know what? I don't know if we can, I don't know if we can afford this guy. Maybe the Yankees say, and I'm sure Scott Boris wants to wait and see because Soto's putting a digit numbers go out there, win a World Series carry the team and that price they will get even higher. But your overarching point, Ben, should Soto be valued as any other hitter in baseball not named Donnie, and maybe even in the Otani conversation. Absolutely. He's a gem. Yeah. He has to be there. I mean, you throw in the patience that he possesses along with the power there. I want to go back to what you said at the end there, the Yankees and them acting in a very un yankee-like way. Now, I guess I want to like have my cake and eat it too. I love the idea that the Yankees, it doesn't seem like they could just go out and buy a World Series. But hey, go ask the Mets how easy that is. I understand maybe this is one thing to say this now when you're posturing to do a deal. It's a very different thing when you actually have to try to put pen to paper. But were you surprised in those comments from Hal? Because I mean, God, that's like just the antithesis of everything the boss ever, ever seemed to say about his team and pinstripes there. I was, I was pretty surprised to see those comments coming from him as opposed to like a leak about them, no, coming directly from him being honest about the payroll. It's just so un yankee-like. Yeah, exactly right. And you're right. His dad, I'm sure, would be rolling over his right because George would spend at all costs. And I wanted to make sure his team was a winner no matter what. We've seen this change the last few years of the Yankees, you know, there's been times people who said, go out and get pitcher A or B, remember, they could have gotten Luis to steal the trade deadline. If they've got Frankie Montas, you know, weren't willing to go up on Volpe, weren't willing to go up other prospects or pay the money quite frankly. And people said, listen, George Steimer would have done it. So we've got to win, we haven't won a World Series since 2009, you know, a 50-year drought is unacceptable for Yankees fans. But how has proven the last few years that he's not, I won't quite say frugal, but he's not going to go and crazies spend money like his dad or like Steve Cohen, like the luxury tax is what it is. The Yankees already are up against it. He is right. It's not like they're not in the upper tier. They've got massive money going to Judge Stanton Cole, they're very top heavy in their contracts. But yeah, I'm with you. I'm surprised you said it publicly. I think publicly you say, we love Juan Soto, he's been incredible, we're going to try to sign him and we hope he could do it tomorrow. Then one, as himself says, yep, I heard the comments, you want to call Scott eight time to one. Then I'm with you. I would then go again. I know we're already up against that, which I would just let it sit and you're right, the police comes out. Hey, you know, I'm not really looking to report it. That's a separate matter to be dealt with because of the Yankee fans. That's the last you're going to hear is cold water on the report or the idea of sort of being in pin shrubs for the, you know, duration of his career. Like, I think it's going to be one of the stories of this summer is Yankees and Orioles battling for a lot of these and particularly four players battling for MVP between Gunnar and Rotterman and Judge and Soto. Like you've got prime time power for those four players, it's going to be a really fun race in the a lot. Oh, and the blue jazz. I have a great seat for it. I'll be like, whoa. Look at those guys. Oh, that's cool. The ball so far. Wow. Way to go. It's a sad state of affairs because, yeah, the blue jays is optimistic as you want to be about them. They're just not, frankly, in the class of team that either of those are. And even if you want to do the pitching thing, which I think is better than the numbers would suggest this season, the rotation is very good. Yankees have the best ERA in baseball and they have been without Garrett Cole all season long. It does feel like we kind of slept on the Yankees. I mean, the numbers suggested that they would be in the play. They missed the playoffs last year and it's like, yeah, and they got Juan Soto, but it's like they, maybe, and boy, this is something I was cautioning the Orioles about. Not that they would ever listen to me last last season is like, maybe the best window for the Orioles was last season when you had a diminished Yankees because honestly, like pound for pound, give me the Yankees over the Orioles right now, Adnan. Yeah, they're pitching specifically, Ben, is worthy of mentioning because, like you said, that's astonishing to have the best ERA without Garrett Cole. You go through it one by one. So we're done signs the six year, $162 million contract. After year, one looks like a disaster doesn't turn at the right, you know, appearance doesn't look like he fits in well, Dickey pinstrips his stuff was bad. This week's bounce back has looked fantastic. But wow, okay. So we're Dawn's back. Strowman feels like a Yankee long now and guy, New Yorker, we obviously saw him with the J's for years. He's a really good pitcher when healthy. He's been terrific. He's got you as advertised. Louise Heel has been the one that you go, hang on a second. How in the world do they have a number five starter who's like in the Cy Young conversation and Jake Petey, former Cy Young, a woman who said to me, always be wary of a guy who has a throat tattoo and I burst out laughing. He's not seriously because I'm not tattoo is what they a throat tattoo like on the Adam's Apple like this guy is fearless. I think you do frame had one actually. I think he did have one, I'm not sure the throat tattoo on Andy Defraid, it'd be great. But again, the starters have just been so good and that's really what's carried this team because you can focus as much as you want, judge and stand. And by the way, Stan is on pace for 38 home runs. They're very quietly. He's had a great bounce back season after everyone said, I think he's done left to release him. Eat half of that contract. Just give him a pod raise of the Giants or so many of us just, oh, he's on pace for almost 40 home runs. He's been terrific. Both of these have this hitting streak, which is great. Like they've got so much depth. And of course, they're both been danker by clay homes. They're both an answer. A couple of days ago, the best ball for the ARA baseball, they're the guardians have passed them since. But I'm with you, Ben. If I go top to bottom, I'll take the Yankees or the O's. My concern for the O's is of course, the closer. I love Craig Campbell is a great guy. Always gonna be all a favorite one day, but I don't trust him versus play homes in a sticky situation. They miss feelings about taste and then maybe in here, can all become the closer at one point, but I do think that ultimately the Yankees are better. I just want to get cold back. Again, you just match up their rotations. Right? Burns is their ace. Okay. Fine. They've got Jericho was the best pitcher of baseball. Braddish has been great. Grayson Rodriguez is really good. Dean Kramer, John Means in the mix, but like the Yankees can match them toe for toe. So I'm with you, man, I'm always cautious going year to year to see a big jump like 82 wins a year ago for the Yankees. I said, okay, 100 wins feels like a lot of plus 18 win improvement, but apparently it's going to be the case. And again, the royals have proven you can have a drag turn around. They're a 106 loss team, but they look like they're a top five, even American league. So it has happened, but by with you, I think generally speaking, people are sleeping a little bit in the Yankees. They thought that 90, 92 wins instead of triple digits, which is what it looks like. I promise I was listening. It was just hard to hear anything after throat tattoo because John Rouch is always my guy for that. Like that's the scariest baseball player I've ever seen. And he had one of those. So it just, it does, it does check out. You mentioned the pen there. It's very funny talking to anybody in this market about the Orioles pen because say what you will about the Blue Jays offense and we've said a lot, not always kind things for whatever reason they rake against that guy. He comes into a game and the Jays just hit him extremely well. Now that doesn't mean he's not still a elite reliever baseball, but it is just funny when we're going to be having these conversations in September about how elite he is and everyone in this market's going to go. Really? Okay. I'll take your word for it, but we know what the O's farm system is. We also know that they're going to have a lot of big bills to pay with those guys. I'm always curious to see how a team in this spot where they can just continue to play this thing along and every other year bring up another two or three great position players. But at a certain point, you do have to kind of cash some of those chips in. I just wonder if this is going to be the year for them and the pen is just such an obvious spot to do that. I'm not talking about a Jackson holiday trade or anything, but that's the beauty of their farm system is they don't have to touch that guy and they still have tons to work with. No, I think it makes a good point, Brent. I think last year, they could have gone out and gotten a big time starter instead of their specter got Jack 30 because not the guy they wanted. I think this year, they recognized that. They got to take it. The Yankees aren't going anywhere. And if you look at the blue Jays, Everest and all with Vlad and Bo, how many division titles they're going to win? How many World Series? And as we all know, it may end up being put in both of those categories. So I really think Michael Jackson Baltimore is taking a hard look and saying, hey, don't keep saying wait until next year. This is our year. We're going to go press the pedal up the metal and the deal is right there on the table Mason Miller from the A's. He's the most electrifying closure in baseball. You give up to those blue chip prospects. You can get that guy from the A's and all of a sudden you'd have no concerns there but you're golden. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like a clear area of need. There was an area of need in the umpiring ranks and that was to relieve ourselves of Angel Hernandez, which has happened. He has retired. So yeah, I don't want to dump too much on the guy, I guess, because apparently is a good dude in his real life, not the umpiring life. But boy, will he not go down as the worst in our lifetimes? If not in history despite the fact that we have numbers that suggest he wasn't, but just like he does feel like the worst umpire in history. It's always what it's instructed to learn from the former players. But as much as you and me and Brad, as much as we love the sport and know it, it's the guys who play that know the most and whenever I sat in the ESPN green room watching baseball tonight, whatever it was, the guys, whether it be John Crock, whether it be Mark Mulder, whether it be Aaron Boone, whether it was Alex Tora, Rick Sutcliffe, you name it, you know, perpetually they would crush umpires and the two that all of came up, Angel Hernandez and CB Buckner. Those are the two guys, you know, I think about it, ball players don't agree on anything, right? Pictures and hitters specifically don't agree on anything. Yes, you guys would specifically agree, like either the pitcher like Mulder saying, no, I'd always get squeezed by Hernandez or the hitter like Doug Land will say, no, no, he never could call the strikes so properly. So there's always you to hear this thing and I was always perplexed. I said, well, why can't we fix this? And they'll always say exactly what you say is a good dude ever likes it, but he's terrible at his job. I'm like, how can we fix this? But it's lovely, I'm probably doing the very strong thing, it's the way it is. So Angel Hernandez looks great for his age, he's 62 years old, he can go and enjoy his life and you're right. I think for most baseball players, they're going to be happy to see him get along for a while here. Yep. And he can go to the movie theater where he can watch Shawshank Redemption 2 Electric Boogaloo. Which we just have to we just have to call and the paper and he did it is what it's called. Yeah. I kind of give away the that's there, but everyone listens to the show, they've already heard it. Yeah. I already love the idea about it rather than like a read a Heyworth poster for the sweet people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You didn't need to sell me anymore. Let's go. Oh, good job as always, Adnan. Thanks for this, buddy. Thanks, boy. Take care. MLB network and the cinephile podcast. A lot of my friends just lost money with somebody bringing up Sydney, sweetie on the show and it not being me like they're like, Oh, that I feel like they all lost that bet. They're like that feels like something you would have done. Yeah. Absolutely. Good job. Bad man. I mean, you probably have before, but I almost certainly have. Yeah. Yeah. No, your take is. I mean, I guess like in a world in which we have no definitive answers, it's a fictional movie, you know, with the no real answer. Yeah. Sure. Red killed Andy's wife. I don't think I said that. Yeah. Maybe it was the warden was Brooks. Yeah. Yeah. It's Brooks. Like, but obviously like I didn't find didn't find the gun. Same model. We're believing the literal most insane person we come across in the movie and we're like, no, no, just take his word as gospel. They net like the police drives the river and he has proven he's great at hiding things like himself or the wardens books. I don't know. You have. I'm not saying he definitively did it. I'm saying you can't say he didn't. So in the moment, like while you're watching the movie for the first time, to be honest, like be honest, like the first time, this is like, this is like, I've watched Hoshank a billion times and it's like, you know, you got bored. You're like, start thinking things. Yeah. Yeah. You think, okay, like have a little respect for me that the first time I'm watching this I'm just like, no, I better Andy did it. I mean, when you first said it, I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily sure. Now, upon like, reflection and knowing that we were going to talk to Adnan today, how much digging for extra information did you do? So I did take to Reddit and I didn't read it all, but there's like a 500 word screed from some guy where he lays it all out and it's like, yeah, it's like, like the murder weapon used it. Where's the alibi? Hmm. It's like, where was he? Hmm. He had drunk in his car. He's like passed out. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, like let's believe the drunk in his car. That story is gospel. Okay. See, making some good points. And by that, I mean, whoever I stole that from, good job by that guy. Yeah, you guys, I got real research to do. I got like baseball research to do. I have a time to be digging up the screenplay notes and what was in the staging directions for the adapted screenplay. All of you people that believe this should get together, like in and have a meeting and then we should all make note of who's at the meeting. So I knew you were going to be like, and then push that building into Lake Arthur. No, no, we don't need to do that. We just need to be able to identify who those people are. Okay. And just, yeah. Because like to give them the key to the city because they're not rubes, just going with their date. They see the world. Third eyes open for those people, baby. You know who's in that meeting with me? At least at one point in time, guy rearvings in that meeting, for sure. Yeah, good. That's great. I know. Yeah. You guys can align yourselves. You can come if you want. No, I'm good. It's been the fan morning show. Yeah, that's Brent Gunning, sports at 5.9 in the fan. Good morning. What are you in for? Martin? Thank you. Goodness. I'm the only guilty man in show and saying, "Fire." [music] (dramatic music)
