[MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our favorites, Audible. No Audible.com or that lovely app. I love the app, and I love it all. Audible is my favorite. Audible keeps me sane on the road. It is the best. Audible, what it does is let you enjoy all of your audio entertainment in one app. One stop, shop, you'll always find the best of what you love, or something new to discover, because they're putting up new stuff constantly. They offer an incredible selection of audio books across every genre, from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, mysteries, thrillers, motivation, wellness, business. I'll tell you one that I am checking out at True Crime when it's very interesting. It's called Chaos by Tom O'Neal. And if you join as an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including latest bestsellers, new releases, right to you, no charge. It's beautiful. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Just visit audible.com/smalltownmurder or text Small Town Murder to 500, 500. That's audible.com/smalltownmurder or text Small Town Murder to 500, 500. Now back to the show. - If you're constantly on the hunt for a good deal, then you need Rakuten. Rakuten is the smartest way to save money when you shop, because members get cash back at over 3500 stores across every category, including fashion, beauty, electronics, home essentials, traveling, dining, and more. You're already shopping at your favorite stores. Why not save while you're doing it? It's a no-brainer. Get the Rakuten app now and join the 17 million members who are already saving. Cashback rates change daily. See Rakuten.com for details. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Your cashback really adds up. - Rakuten's big give week is back with 15% cashback. It's a festival of savings at hundreds of stores, including Rayban, Dermstore, and Verbo. Prep for summer and save on sunglasses, sun protection, vacation rentals, and more. It's one of Rakuten's biggest cashback events, and it's on May 6th through May 13th. Join today for free and get an extra 10% cashback boost. Go to Rakuten.com or download the Rakuten app today. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Shoppers, get it. - This week in Lopez Island, Washington, when a well-known boat captain disappears, his wife says he left her, but blood stains, tips from relatives, and a meat grinder tell a much different, much darker story. Welcome to Small Town Murder. (upbeat music) - Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. - Yay! - Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrogallo, I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Wissman. - Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. On another wild one, what a, I'm gonna say it every week, but just a crazy wild unfolding tale. We've never told one quite like this before, and you'll know what I mean when we tell it. It's so, it sounds like you're gonna think I made it up, and I did, that's just, I'm just gonna tell you that right up front here. So, that's how crazy it is. Very quickly, shut up and give me murder.com. - Oh, yeah. - Tickets to live shows. - There they are. - Here we go, May 31st, Doraam, North Carolina, you are up, get your tickets last minute. There's a few left, Nashville next night is sold out. After that, they're selling quicks of Get the Minneapolis for September, Get those, Boston, Kansas City. We opened up more tickets. There was another tier to the theater, we opened it up, so now there's more tickets that was sold out very quickly, so get your tickets before, they're all gone too. Austin, Oklahoma, all these. Get your tickets right now, we're very excited. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also, new shirts are up too. Some very funny ones, so check those out. You certainly also want Patreon. Patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get all of the bonus material, tons of it. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get a huge back catalog, hundreds of episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard. New ones every other week, one crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get access to it. You get it all of it. That's right, so this week, which you're gonna get for crime in sports, and we really need to have any interest in sports for this, we're gonna talk about the OJ trial. We've talked about the, did his son do it, we talked about, we did an episode on crime in sports, but this is the actual trial. How do you have DNA evidence and all this stuff and not convict a guy? Well, you are in competence and we'll talk all about it. I've watched all 493 parts of the trial on YouTube, so it's a lot, trust me. And then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about what's inside Ed Gaines house. - What's there? - What's in there, or worse off his shed? - Yeah. - His house, what's he doing there? What's a life day in the life of-- - That was just so gross. - Ed Gay, oh, it's disgusting. We'll talk all about it. patreon.com/crimeinsports is how you get all of that stuff, so please do that, and you get a shout out at the end of the show too, which is wonderfully, you're gonna love that. So that said, I think it's time to disclaimer. - Sure. - It's a comedy show, everybody. We're comedians, we're gonna tell jokes, people are gonna die, but we know how to do it. We're professionals. - Yeah. - And what you do is, is what we do is we never make fun of the victims, or the victims' family. Very easy. - Why, James? - Because we're assholes. - Yep, but-- - But we're not scumbags. - Simple for you. - There you go, so that sounds like a good policy to you. And you wanna hear a crazy story and you wanna have some fun. I think it's time, everybody, and you're gonna love it. But if you think true crime and comedy should never go together, maybe you won't like the show. I don't know, but give it a shot, and no complaining later. That said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back. Let's do this, I don't care where you are. Where are you right now? Where are you right now? Are you at the deli counter at the supermarket, putting chicken strips in one of those weird paper bag things for people? Yeah, slam it down on the ground. You look them dead in the eye, and you shout, "Shut up and give me murder!" Oh, there we go, let's do this. Let's go on a trip, everybody. - Let's do it. - I can't wait for North Carolina and Nashville to see how good a shut up and give me murder yellers they are, 'cause-- - Nice little southern run, let's go. - Usually they're enthusiastic down there, so we'll find out, let's go on a trip. We're going to Washington State. - Okay. - We are going to, like, way, not even in the mainland of Washington State, on an island near Canada. Yeah, it's-- - Oh, north there. - North Western Washington, in the water, between Washington and Canada. - It's a fascinating little area. - It is, it's a different-- - It's a different country. - Totally, yeah, it seems, this area to these islands, these are the San Juan islands. - These people are not playing. - It's a different lifestyle, completely. - Kings, they've made it. - They're all boat people, you know what I mean? - Or water craft, aircraft people. - Yes, oh yeah, yeah, the there they have. They're the type of people who have pilot's licenses that live on this island. - The boat flies, it's wild. - It's fucking crazy, so we'll talk about that. This is Lopez Island, Washington. It is, it's three hours to Seattle, and that's, you can drive it, but your car is to go-- - What the fuck, Seattle's on the ocean, you guys? - Your car has to go on a ferry, and the ferry takes 45 minutes to get to the mainland. - Wow. - And then it's another two hours after that, so. - Jeez, yes. - It's up there, it's seven and a half hours to Deer Park, Washington, which is our last episode, episode 450 that was in Washington. You are not the father, was that episode, and that was a fun one, I remember that. San Juan County, 'cause this is the San Juan islands, and the motto of this particular island, of Lopez Island is quote, "The jewel of the San Juan islands." - Okay. - So it's considered, I mean-- - Old Cuba. - It's beautiful, yeah. - San Juan kept throwing me off, I'm like Puerto Rico? What are we talking about? And it's, no, you couldn't get farther away from Puerto Rico. It's the exact-- - Entirely different. Climate, entirely different culture, and people, it's oh, so different. - Well, an island in the extreme South, East, and an island in the extreme Northwest, it's just, it's all there, a little bit of history. We gotta give you a lot of show and story, so we'll go through this pretty quick. The archeological evidence suggests that this island had people hunting and gathering about 8,000 years ago here. - Holy shit, somebody else knew it was amazing. - It's a beautiful place, there's water. You know, if you're live here, fishing is abundant. - Sure, sure. - This is a place you can live, you know what I mean? The climate isn't bad either. During the Wilkes expedition, this island was actually given the name Chauncey Island. After an American naval commander named Isaac Chauncey, but when the British reorganized the official naval shit in 1847, they removed many of the names from this expedition, basically, they started naming it other shit. So they named it Lopez for Gonzalo Lopez de Harro, the Spanish naval officer who was the first European to sail to the San Juan Islands. So, like don't do an American from that continent, just whoever was the first European, we'll name him after that. - So how the hell did that person get there? - Did they go around the horn? - Go around, yeah, they went around everything. Before Lewis and Clark did their expedition, there was a lot of Europeans in the Northwest, but they had to go all the way the fuck around. That's how they got there, which is a long ride. That's a long ride, man. This is before the Panama Canal or any of that shit. - Yeah, did they go around South America or around Africa? - Around South America, they went to get there. They had to go all the way around. It was a long trip. That's why it was so important to try to find a route to the ocean through the land, 'cause take a lot shorter of a time. Reviews of this town, here is five stars. I've been to Lopez Island twice now and thoroughly enjoyed it both times. Yeah, the island lifestyle is so laid back. No one's in a hurry. Everyone is friendly. It's on an island, you'll get there eventually. You know, there's so much natural beauty. I drove past the senior center and they do tennis on Saturdays. Oh, room for two more? Sign us up, can we? 'Cause we'll school some seniors in tennis, man. - What does that lifestyle cost? Holy shit. - Me and you doubles against old people. I think we're gonna fucking crush, dude. - Let's go, Athol. Come on, keep your elbows. - Let's go, come on. What are we doing here? Let's go. - Old people with their drop foot. - Yeah, come on, yeah. - Clutch your chest now 'cause you lost. - Yeah, make excuses. Okay, yeah, lie on the ground and be motionless. - Oh shit. - If there's a group, I can outrun. - Oh shit, can we get an ambulance for Fred? I think Fred's dead now. - They'll be very impressed with my physical problems. - Oh my God, they'll be like, how old are you just gone? I'm 69. Holy shit, you look great. He said, "I can picture myself retired on Lopez Island playing tennis and hiking some of the trails that offer spectacular views." - I can see myself living the best life. - Yeah, I could see myself living on an island playing tennis and I, yeah, sure. I bet you could. - Who the fuck can't, you idiot? - Yeah, you jackass. Four stars, I'm currently at Lopez Island and it's great. I would give it five stars, but when me and my sister went swimming, we got stung by jellyfish and my sister thinks it's something called Stinging Kelp and the wait for the ferry. That's how they spell it, not ferry, ferry. - Yeah, oh. - Who was? - Gotta wait on him. - Gotta wait, he's coming. He comes, "Hi!" And he takes you with you off to the hospital now. It's the weirdest thing ever. I was long and boring as well as the ferry ride, but all the locals were nice and waved and smiled and overall was a nice small community. I've enjoyed my stay so far. So the only thing that's wrong is you went in the ocean and there was ocean shit in there that you didn't care for. - That's the whole reason I'm not going in the fucking ocean. - No, so you penalize the review. - Right. Two stars, I was expecting something special, but reality was another matter. Oh boy, this isn't special for you, a beautiful majestic island. It was rather disappointing to be totally honest. Overall, I found the shop owners to be snooty and everything was overpriced except for the Lopez Village Market. You're on a fucking island. - Yeah, it costs money to get that shit there. - To get to Seattle, I gotta put my car in a fucking ferry. So, as they say, they're local. - On his back. - Yeah, I gotta get on a ferry with my fucking car to go pick shit up. It's gonna be expensive, sorry. - I gotta take a ferry ride. - I gotta take a ferry ride. But that's in the, you fly in a ferry ride. So that's better. They sprinkle pixie dust also, which helps, yeah. - It's very dust. - Yep, the farms at Al were nice, but honestly, I could get the same thing in Mount Vernon, Lacanner, Enumclaw. Well, no one's ever heard of those places, so that's why. And Ocean Shores kicks booty compared to Lopez Island. Oh, at least it's Ocean Shores, the gorgeous sandy beaches right at your tiptoes, literally, and they have great food and endless shops to visit. The only difference is that Lopez Island is an island. Well, yeah, that's a big difference. Huge difference you just mentioned right there. - Landlocked attached to other towns, or is it all on its own? - Oh, God, that's the only difference. Oops, and also way overpriced. Because it's a fucking island and the other one you can drive to the store. Holy shit. - Get a lot of shit in Omaha. Somehow in Honolulu, it's more expensive. - Yeah, it's a little pricier. That's why they like spam down there, 'cause needless room to grow it. I know you don't grow it, but still. Finally, the two hour wait for the ferry in the 45 minute ride was way too much time sitting on one's booty. That's two mentions of the word booty in one review. I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. - Unless you're a rapper from 1991, I don't wanna hear you say booty more than once in a paragraph. Practically six hours total when including round trip, not worth it, will not be back. - Okay, seems like you don't have the mindset for the lifestyle here. Stay on the mainland, or the wallet. So yeah, stay where you can, that's all. People in this town, 2,588 people here. So still, very small, not a lot of people at all, and that's actually it's gone up, because it was less, yeah. More female than males, 'cause the crowd is older, and women live longer, so that's the reason there. The median age here, 59.7. - Yeah, of wealthy motherfuckers. There's no way they're not. - No, tennis play and bastards, these people. Family here, it's about almost 60% married, very low divorce rate, only 9% of the people are single with children, 'cause they're old. So, you know. - It's divorce rates. - Yeah, that's it. Race to this town, 89% white, 1% black, 1.1% Asian, 5.4% Hispanic, and 31% of the people here are religious, highest religion, Catholic, actually. - Yeah, yeah. - It's actually Catholic, which is, as you all know, Catholics are the Baptists of the extreme northwest. - The end up. - Yeah, the Pacific Northwest. Median household income here is $67,938 a year, which is really normal. Yeah, because a lot of these people aren't, they don't work, they're retired. - Oh, and they're retired making great retiree money. - Yeah, so it's a different scale when you look at it, 'cause the cost of living, if 100 is average, here it is 135. - Oh, yeah, that's expensive. - Housing is the big one here. Median home cost here, there's limited space, you know what I mean? - Yeah, it's $795,700. That's the median home cost. - For anything affordable, there's a million dollar home. - That's incredible, that's wild. And it makes sense, 'cause it takes, think about what it takes to build a house there. - Yeah, you gotta reinforce the ground, there's a water table that's right, goddamn there. - Not only that, just to bring the materials over there. - Right, yeah. - It's so much more expensive. - High beams and shit. - Yeah, you have to float them over there on a ferry. - Yeah, it's hard, it's hard going. - You gotta get 'em to carry 'em. - Yeah, he doesn't want to. So if we've convinced you, you have the wallet and you have the mindset and you're ready, we have for you, the Lopez Island Washington Real Estate Report. (upbeat music) Okay, average two bedroom rental here is over double the national average. - $2,500. - $2,560. - Wow. - Yup, here is a three bedroom, two bath. 17, or I'm sorry, 1272 square foot house, so not a giant house. It's a manufactured home, obviously. It was trucked here or floated over here. Looks like shit on the outside. It needs a paint job, something fierce. It looks like it's abandoned, but then inside, like the really nice hardwood floors and it looks much better on the inside. Could use some updating, but it's still nice. They really brag about these outbuildings that look like ed-game murder sheds. That's all it looks like. - Really? - Yeah, where somebody would dismember a body and play with its sexual organs. That's, they look terrifying. So that's weird. It says in the listing, quote, "Nice three bedroom two bath home on .5013 acres." - That's very specific. Just say half an acre. - I've never seen acreage broken down to the fourth decimal, have you? - To the fucking footage? - Of course, glad over that's wild, man. That's an island. Holy shit, that's 469,000 bucks for that. - Wow. - It's pricey, but you're on a nine. - My God. - Yeah. Here's a two bedroom two bath, 2,164 square feet on .74 acres. They didn't go all the way to the fourth decimal. - Yeah. - I don't know. It's nice, it's a lot of wood, but it looks like kind of like a bed and breakfast this place, I would say. Like a small bed and breakfast, it's right on the water. - Yeah. - Fucking beautiful. The views are amazing, it's on the water. 1,250,000 dollars. - Yeah, it's a million and a quarter. You're getting almost an acre of land, too, on an island, on the water. So privacy. Here's a five bedroom eight bath, tea ball for each and every bee hole, and some neighbors, 4,404 square foot. - Shit. - On 24 and a half acres. - Is this $10 million? - It's, look, this looks like where people in romantic comedies go to get married. It's fucking ridiculous. It's like Fantasy Island, silly, like there. And there's all like beautiful stuff in the, like that they've built for like outdoor stuff. - Really? - Like in the woods, there's like nice, it's gorgeous, 6,750,000 bucks for it. Which is less than $50,000. - I mean, it is, well, it'll be 10. If it's six, it's 10. - I mean, six, it might as well be 50. Who cares? - It's $6 million. - That's crazy. That's a lot. So things to do here, okay. We have the Lopez Island home tours. - Okay. - There's a lot going on here as well. - What is that? - You go around and look at people's houses? - Yep, more than a hundred homeowners have opened their homes for the Lopez Island tour. - Oh, they're allowed, they want you to. - Yeah, you go in, you walk down streets and you just walk in and look around in their houses and pocket their prescription pills out of their medicine cabinet and leave, I think. - Grab a chain or your, they're in there. - Grandpa's got some oxies. Here we go, fucking pocket those bad boys. So one person here that opened their home said we said yes right away. This is just one day of our lives with the important fundraiser for the Community Center. This is what this does. And yeah, so this, that's what they do. You go around and you walk around. - How much do they raise? You know what I mean? I'm going to stay home, just donate 20 bucks and says don't come in my house. - Yeah, get the fuck away. I would definitely donate more for you to stay out of my fucking house. That would be great. - Bet you raise more money for that fucking community center. - Yeah, just put a sign on my lawn said gave $1,000 and move on. - Stay out. - Yeah, so apparently there's just, some of the houses are cool. There's one house, Asha Leela is the name of the person who owns it on Shark Reef Road was built entirely from timbers that they cut down on the five acre of land place. So this is no like outside stuff. It's all local wood and shit. So that's pretty cool. - They had five acres of woods. They cut down the woods and built a house out of the woods. - Out of the woods, yeah. - That's kind of cool, right? - I mean, at least that's like pioneering. That's like old school. It's an old house. - As long as it's not just wood, as long as you throw up some drywall out of those stuff. - I hope there's some stucco maybe, some concrete in the foundation. - Yeah, it's a little mud on these walls. - Something, yeah, slap it up there. There's that and then there's the up-up crane circus. That's what it's called, up-up-up, I'm sorry, three-ups. - Oh, so you, what is that, crane rides? - The up-up-up traveling circus and ensemble tours the Salish Sea for its fourth annual tour. The crane circus, the crane truck circus will perform a one hour, all ages outdoor circus show at the Lopez Community Center. This is what we're raising money for with these houses on Lopez Island with a crane truck for shenanigans. What kind of shenanigans? And baby grand piano for live music. The show features aerialist musicians, acrobats, clowns and illusionists. This is a food truck circus, basically. - Oh, and they have some trapeze up there. - Yeah, they do like a pop-up in the parking lot for an hour and then they take off. - Walk and taco and watch some people look around. - No tent, tentless circus, crime rate in this town. Well, we're interested in here. Property crime is about a quarter underneath the national average, so about 25% under. - A little low, yeah. - Violent crime, murder rate, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is more than 50% under the average, so. - Very safe. - It's a very safe place. I mean, you're not gonna get away. - Nobody's blowing through town. It's a fucking island. - It's a 45 minute flight on a fairies back. - You gotta want to be there, you know? So that said, let's talk about some murder here. And you're like, wow, it's a little early, yes it is, 'cause this is a lot of murder and it's a lot of crazy. Let's talk about a man first, okay? And this is a man, man. This is a dude. This guy would call us total post-season two seconds. - How do you mean? - His name is Rolf Nestland, N-E-S-L-U-N-D, Rolf with an O. So he's born, we don't know when he's born. He's a man of mystery. - Oh yeah. - We think he's either born, and when I give you this date, you're gonna shit your pants. This didn't happen in like the 20s, don't worry. It's a modern tale, but I have to tell you about this guy. July 7th, 1897, he's born, Rolf. Or July 7th, 1900, either one. - It doesn't matter. - We don't know. - It's a very old man. - It's a very old man. We're gonna go with 1897 for now. He's from Kungsberg, Kungsberg commune in Busker Rude, Silk, Norway. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's a lot of shit there. - He's from a commune, or is that the town called? - I don't know if that might mean town in Norwegian too, I don't know, 'cause the commune is K-O-M-M-U-N-E, is how they spell it. So I don't know if that's like a root word for how they came up with commune for a commune. We have no idea. And Busker Rude, Filke, is the marketplace, Norway. It's a seaport where he's from Kungsberg, or Kungsberg, I'm not sure. His grandfather was a prominent, like a boat captain, an owner of sailing ships. - Hell yeah. - Okay, so, but he didn't have much money coming up. His grandfather was like out on the seas, this is-- - Yeah, that's fascinating. A captain can either be like a super rich guy, or fucking, you know what I mean? - Or degenerately in between. - Yeah. Who needs a job so he has a place to live for a while. - Right, you need to stay on this boat. - Yeah, so he was four years old when his father was a barber, Roth. So he was four years old when his father put him to work. Which, he was the lather for shaving. He would lather people's faces for the shaving. That was his job at four. He had to stand on a wooden box to do it, and get up there. So, he soon decided, as a child, that I don't wanna do this forever. - Yeah, this sucks. - My grandfather was a barber. It is fucking 12 hours a day on your feet, six days a week, brutal. - Yeah, but rubbing a whiskery old man, it's no fun either. - That's no fun, especially back then. - They all spoke. - Yeah. - Everyone of these guys stunk, I'm sure. - Yeah, rubbing shit on their fucking neck. - Probably stabbing his little fingers with their fucking pointy bristles. (laughing) - That man is, that man may as well just be a pumice stone. He's exfoliating the shit out of that child. - Oh my God, so exfoliate this child, please. In 1909, when he's 12 years old or nine, we're not sure, I think it's 12. He decided at 12, I don't wanna do this anymore. I don't wanna be here. I don't want to, you know, barber. I don't wanna do any of this. I'm gonna run away from home. - So he left at nine to 12, somewhere in there. - So he ran, now this isn't, I'm gonna run away to the next town. I have like an aunt, I'm gonna go stay at her house and ask her to not tell my mom where I am. - He got on a Scandinavian American steam line ship and went to New York. - Wow. - At 12. - That's a trip around the block, innit? - That's some shit, that's some walls right there. - Yeah. - That should be here as a kid, you're like, I'm gonna go around the block. - Yeah, I'll be back. - That's a long ride. - That's a long fucking block right there. So he stowed away aboard a Danish passenger ship to the United States, a steamer. And he had to avoid the workers on the ship. - How do you do that? - 'Cause he's a stowaway. He said, quote, I slept in the toilets and ate with the passengers. And just pretended. - He'd just go up and eat, yeah. - Yeah, he said they made it a shore in Hoboken without being discovered as a stowaway. So all the way across the ocean. You know, that's over like a week across the ocean. He's there. He tried to hop a ferry across the Hudson River to New York. And that's where he got fucked with. He tried to skip the fare on it. And if it's anything like the subway now, they really take that ship seriously. So he had no money, not American money anyway. And the ferry cost three cents. And he didn't have three cents. - Oh no. - So a Norwegian man recognized him and said, I know that guy, I know that kid. They're from the same town. He used to get his haircut by his father. - Imagine that. - Imagine the coincidence. He said, I know it's a Norwegian boy. He just blathered me a week ago. This is crazy. - I exfoliated his palms with my neck. - Look at his palms. They're gonna be like red and scrappy. - I bet they're still red. It's been three weeks. - That's crazy. So he didn't have ferry fare. And he, there he goes. So he is incarcerated for seven days at a holding pen for immigrants. - Okay, 'cause now he's, yeah, now he's an illegal, yeah. Just picture little Vito Corleone and the godfather too, staring out the window at the Statue of Liberty singing. That's what we're doing here. - Immigrating illegally. Wow. - He was, so he's locked up. Then he was deported on the same ship going back to Norway. When the ship left, they just stuck him back on it and pulled the fuck off. - Give him another free ride. - Yep. He was trying to get to his aunts, he had an aunt on Long Island. And he planned to sign on to a ship sailing from New York to anywhere and lie about his age. That was his plan when he got there. But the aunt ended up, ended up visiting him while he was there before he took off. And, but I guess at the time she wasn't married and they wouldn't let release him to an unmarried person or some shit. They had to be like a married couple, it was weird. Yeah, so it was- - That's fascinating. - It was 1909. Women couldn't vote yet for Christ's sake. - Yeah. - It was a different time. - Anybody who's taking on the responsibility of taking care of this child, fucking have at it. You want to stow away Norwegian boy? Like, sure, here you go. You're related to him, great. - Yeah, I imagine there was sex trafficking then too, but not near as prevalent as it is today, I'm sure. - Well, I'm sure it wasn't as big of a, then they would actually sell you a child. Now it's like a lot of, I'm sure, fucking online- - They need you a child. - Yeah, an online shitter. I don't know what the fuck they're doing, but it's gotta be weird. It's nefarious shit. - But, I mean, as a government entity, you don't want to be just pushing kids on to people, you know? - No, no, no, yeah, take it home with you. - There you go. - Now it's the government's fault forgiven and sending them all with them for a second. - What the fuck was that movie with Diane Keaton in the 80s where somebody, like a cousin, she hadn't seen in 30 years, willed her a baby. - What? - They died. And she gets a call from a lawyer saying she inherited something, so she shows up at the airport to pick it up and she's like, signs, "When did I get signs the paper?" And they're like, "This," and they hand her a baby. And now she's got a baby. And she literally says, "I can't have a baby. I have a 12, 30 lunch meeting. (laughs) I have a business, well, it's so fucking ridiculous, sir. - Yeah, very late 80s, early 90s. - Very late 80s, yeah. So Ralph, or Ralph here, he had to go home to Norway. He said, quote, "When he got home," quote, "My Ma gave me a good beating." - Yeah, I bet she did. - I bet she did, so he turned into a little Italian boy somehow. "My Ma gave me a good beating when I got home." - I deserved it. - I deserved it. She kicked my ass. He turned into a '30s Brooklyn kid. He said, "But they were kind of glad to see me, I think. I would hope so that they were glad to see-- - I can't believe you made it across the world. - Twice, back and forth. So they figured that now that he got that out of his system, he'd be better, but instead a year later, he ran away again, hopped on another steamer down for New York. This time he got across from Hoboken and across the Hudson on the ferry. - Oh. - So he managed to then get her. Well, he didn't have any money, but he hitched a ride with a guy who had a car who was driving that on the ferry, so the guy let him sit in his car. 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That's betterhelphglp.com/smalltownmurder. - Now back to the show. - That's how it worked. So he passed himself off as a worker on the ship. That's how he got there. So yeah, I worked on the ship, and that's what he told everybody. He found his way to the Ants House as well. He found his aunt. He said, "I was the cause of her getting married." The aunt married her fiance earlier than planned, so Rolf could stay with them. - How 'bout that? - And so they did it. So he, after a few months, he ends up running away from his aunt's home and ships out as a mess boy aboard the British freighter that was bound for France. He wants to just, he wants to work on ships. He liked the ship thing. - Yeah. - So yeah, the ship was the Ganges, and it sailed off on Christmas Eve, and on Christmas day, they got a huge snowstorm. So he got some experience pretty quickly here. He said that he never forgot that day because of the steamer's chief engineer. He said that green water shipped through a hatch that Rolf was wrongfully blamed for leaving open. - Green water, what is that water? - Ocean water, I guess. I don't know, it says green water. - Maybe it's a sewage. - Maybe that's possible, though that would be brown water, I would think, right? - Well, they call it black water on like an RV. - Yeah, that's what I mean. - The gray water is the toothpaste and sink-- - Green is probably good water. - You think, maybe. - Or maybe, I don't know. But the water just rolled through the engineer's mess just as the chief emerged from his cabin, which had been flooded. So Rolf said the chief had the sharpest pointed shoes I've ever seen, and they reached me no matter where I was. He was a mean, mean man. - He's kicking him? - Kicking him right in the ass. It's like 1911. You could fucking drown this kid if he fucks off. It's probably legal, you know what I mean? And nobody even knows where he is. - Right, right. - He's a 14 year old. So yeah, seven years later, he's gonna enter World War I here. - Really? - Yeah, one of the assignments he had was a board of British freighter bound from Baltimore to Europe. He said, "We were 10 days at sea on salt, meat, and beans." - Wow. - Yeesh. - A salt meat, like one word? - Salt. - Salt meat. It's salted meat that's, so it won't go bad. - Like canned ham or something? - Yeah, yeah. - Shit ham. - They used to just salt beef before refrigeration. They'd salt the meat and salting would keep it like cod, like salt cod they did that too also. He said, "We never even had potatoes." - Really? - So yeah, he was old enough to convince immigration officers that when he got to America, by the way, he told them that, "No, no, I can work and I'm older." He faked his age and said, "You know, I don't need to be dependent on anybody. I'm older, I'll be fine." So interesting. Another job he had in New York for a while, I guess, in between ships. He was so young, but nobody wanted to do this job. He was hired as a painter to work on the beams of the buildings being built on 42nd Street in Madison Avenue in New York City. - Holy. - So building the big buildings and he's the guy up there. - Painting the beam before they clad it with whatever they clad it with. Walking on beams, hundreds of feet above the ground. And back then, there's no safety equipment. He just walked on the beam and if you fell, they fucking found somebody else. That was it. - Right. - Done. So everybody up there too, these were all Italian immigrants that were working. So it was him and a million Italian immigrants in the Norwegian kid. So he must have felt at a place, not only in a million different ways. So then he gets on these ships for the Leukenbach line. And he boarded a ship called the Harry Leukenbach. And it was the New York based Leukenbach line that he ends up being a captain for later on as we'll get to. One night here, after a couple of voyages on the Harry Leukenbach, which was the flagship here, he was a quartermaster by now. And I guess shortly after midnight, a French freighter ahead in an eight ship convoy was torpedoed. So Rolf said she was a fire from four to aft. He said she lit up everything. - Whole goddamn boat. - A fire in the night at sea is the brightest thing in the world 'cause it's so fucking dark out there. - Right. - It's so bright. So a few minutes later, the ship sank off the coast there. So he was like, oh shit, what happens now? 'Cause this is World War I times. And he said she was gone in eight to 10 minutes. Which is crazy. She went down by the head. So like the Titanic, but then the Titanic broke. He said he remembers the stern lifting into the air before the ship dove to the bottom. Just that's what it goes, it's right down like a missile. And eight people died on the ship. Went down with the ship. - Eight people died. He's seen so many people die, right? - Eight people, yeah. He said he almost died too. He said he owed his life to the second mate on the ship. Ralph was abandoning the bridge when he nearly fell into a coal bunker hatch dislodged by the torpedo strike. - That would have been everything. - That would have fell 30 feet, he said. He said the second mate grabbed me by the nape of the neck and saved him from falling 30 feet down and then drowning. - Like a cat. - Yeah, so even if he fell down, he would have had no chance of climbing up before it went down, he would have just drowned. That would have been that. So survivors were picked up by a yacht that was serving as a convoy escort. So yep, he just hops right back on the next ship, doesn't care. - Oh my God. - Dude's got balls, man, I'm telling you. So following World War I, he became a second mate. Because he was a quartermaster, he never had to serve as a third mate. He went right to second mate. By 38 years old, he's going to be master. Shipmaster, that's what he's gonna earn here. By the time of the time of 1928, he becomes a US citizen in the 20s as well. He remained a Lucanbox captain for 17 years before later on, he will become a World War II person, as we'll talk about here. He, I guess, well, we'll talk about this. He continued progressing up the ship ladder here. And in 1926 was his first command. He became master of the Robin Goodfellow and the captain's a hard job to be the master here. You're in charge of everything. - You know, everything about this boat. - You're in charge of everything. You have to know everybody's job, what they're doing, make sure they're doing it well. You have to know anything that goes wrong by any of these people, fuck up. It's your fault and you gotta go down with the ship. That's a lot, it really is. - Some asshole could open a hatch and we'd take it on water and it's my fault. - I gotta die now. - I gotta die. - Great, this is fucked up, man. So this is when he first started going into Puget Sound as well and found this area. Now he's a, he's a kind of a good looking guy and he's a sea captain, so he's got a certain, there's a certain ruggedness to him. You know, it's almost like being a cowboy in the 1800s. Like he's a sea captain, he comes in with his, he comes in with his frozen fish patties and he's like, I brought these for ya. People are like, oh, look at that, spread it much, just how I like it. - Yeah, it's either that guy, Captain Hook, or Captain Ron. Those are the three again. - Captain Ron's my favorite of the three, obviously. - Those are the three captains. - That's all the captains right there. So he likes women, obviously. He's into women, he likes doing that, but he's not married yet, even in his 30s. Back then, guys got married early. He's in his 30s, he's not married yet. - That's a question. - Right? - Been with a lot of women though, and he's always, any port he goes into, he finds the place to go. He likes him. - Who's that port dripping? - Yep, he will marry a woman in 1934. Her name is, I'm gonna spell it, A-L-F-H-I-L-D. That's her first name. - Alfalfa. - Alfalfa. - Alfalfa, Alfild, middle name is Margarith, but I think it's probably Margritte and Margot, they call her. M-A-R-G-R-E-T-H-E, is her middle name. So she marries him. Now, he's 34, and she's around the same age, which is good, but she's from Norway also, hence the weird name. So she, and that's where he met, every once in a while he stops in Norway, he feels the most at home there and he likes it there, and she's a native, so it's pretty cool. Now, in 1935, he meets her, she's got a younger sister, much younger sister, named Eleanor, E-L-L-I-N-O-R, Eleanor. - Yeah. - She was only 11 at the time they met, and he was 35, so they met there, we'll find that'll come into play later, don't worry. - Oh boy. - Ralph obviously old enough to be your dad, but he's going out with her older sister, who's less than 10 years younger than him. So, he's on a ship called the Andrea Lukenbach during World War II, March 10th, 1943. He is the master of the company flagship Andrea Lukenbach, loaded with 14 tons of army cargo for the North African invasion. They're gonna go, he's gonna, he's gotta bring this over here so these people can go fight Rommel, like no shit, like that's what we're talking about here. So, this was, that Andrea was near the tail end of 115 ship convoy that was crossing from Atlantic, or from New York to Liverpool, and then was gonna go down. He called it, Ralph said, quote, "We were at suicide corner, "which is not the place you wanna hang out, really." - Yeah, either the front or the back, those are bad places, 'cause that's, I mean, the-- - It's right by murder alley, you don't wanna, you wanna avoid that place. (laughing) - They're coming, if they come from the back with like, gun planes, you're getting hit first. - Well, I guess it's where they were too, is where the Germans had a real line in the ocean too, where they could come and get you. So, he said, "We were carrying 6,000 tons of ammunition, "and ships with ammunition were put in the last section," and the Germans knew that. So, that's what they went after. The German subs picked off three ships at the end of the convoy. The third one was the Andrea, the one he's on. So, it took two torpedo hits near the stern. This is getting attacked by a U-boat. - Wow. - How many people have we talked about that survived a U-boat attack? - Right. - He's been torpedoed by the Germans twice. - Yeah. - 30 years apart. That's fucking crazy. - And he took it in the stern where the goddamn, where everything's at, that's the motor, that's everything. - So, that's where most of the ammo was stowed, unfortunately. - And that, the hold for sure. - He said the whole aft end went, the end blew right off. The plates on the side went through the air. He said, and landed on a British escort steamer nearby. - Oh boy. - So, this thing was gone in eight minutes. It was sunk. - Took the bottom of the ocean. - 21 crewmen died on the ship. - Oh, no. - 63 survived. - That's nice. - So about a quarter survived. - They're ruined. - They're fucked, yeah. - They're ruined, men. - And they're gonna get right back on another ship. That's a crazy part. - I wouldn't even take a bath after that. - No. - I don't have any water. - Showers only, I don't swim. - That's it. - Do you swim? Not if I can help it. - Not unless you hit me with a German torto. - I don't stay on this motherfucker. - I don't know. He said, Ralph said, when I dove off the main deck, the rail was only four feet off the water. - What the shit? - The fucking deck was four feet from the water, which on a big ship that they're, you know. - It was 30 feet in the air. - Yeah, it's 40 feet in the air. He had to swim through fuel oil several inches thick to reach a lifeboat, a little lifeboat. It's thick on top with oil. And he said they had to wash them off with dawn, like a fucking bird in a commercial, like a sea bird. So he said, he remembered seeing the bow of the ship disappearing into the sea and shimmering shortly after sunset. He said, it took a lot of heart out of me. - All that, yeah. - He said, a ship is like a human being. You can get awfully mad at her, especially when you're docking, but you have a lot of feeling for her. That's what the Mormons always say. You can get mad at her, especially when you're docking. And then, but you still have a lot of feeling for, you know what I mean? - So. - That is, wow, that is a, you get mad at the ship when you're docking, but once she goes down, 'cause she took a fucking torpedo, you give your hearts broken. - It was sunk by you two to one. That was the U-boat that sunk it. They even know which one sunk it. Yep, that's fucking wild. Five minutes after, immediately after, look out, spotted the peristoscope. They spotted the U-boats and five minutes later, they were firing the torpedoes. Which is fucking wild. The second torpedo hit just forward of the first and the majority of the nine officers, 46 men, 28 armed guards here, had to abandon ship in the lifeboats, that was it. So, others jumped overboard, swam to the boats, like him. The, that's wild, man. The armed guard officer gave his life jacket to a seamen who didn't have one, but the officer couldn't swim and then died. (laughing) So, don't. - Did you give up your life? - Before you give it up, go, can you swim? Yeah, okay, I'm gonna hang on to this then. (laughing) 'Cause I can't, I'll just sink to the fucking bottom. - I'd love to save you, man, but if I save you, I die. So, I- - I'm totally gonna die, yeah. - I hope you can chance it. Maybe both of us. - I don't know what to do. So, in just over an hour, the British fleet Euler Orange Leaf rescued 17 armed guards, nine officers, 37 men, and put them in Scotland. Anybody on the sea at that time is lucky to be alive. Those are, they didn't, they weren't, they weren't discerning from anything. They were just sinking everything. - They were sinking, and the Germans specifically knew, though, in these convoys, they kept the ammo shit in the back, and that's what they wanted to destroy, was the ammo, 'cause that's shooting at them. - That's how you win, yeah. - That's how you win, so that makes sense here. Yeah, I guess he was the captain of, I'm sorry, the one of the guys on the ship, the second mate, I believe, he broke his leg and shit like that, so a lot of them were injured in this little melee here, but he was the captain, and he was rescued. It was a 6,565-ton steamship. That is fucking wild. - Is there any shame in that of jumping overboard when you're in the hit? - It was torpedoed, so it's not like-- - The 21 men die, though. - Yeah, they went down, he went, he stayed on the ship till it was in the water. That's what you have to do, you can't jump off early, you have to basically make sure you're the last guy on the ship. - As soon as it's hit, be like, "All right, guys, I'll see you around." - Shit, jump, and he's fucking takes off and jumps into the water. - Yeah, savor if you want, but I'm leaving. Hope you guys can swim. - As he takes off, I got down four feet, so at that point, you don't have to commit suicide, you can jump in after that. - This boat doesn't need a captain, it's over, yeah. - It had, for you, longitude latitude dorks here, it was 51 degrees, 29, 29, I don't even know how to read these, nevermind. Okay, I tried to do it like I don't even know. - You loved the latitude, but I'm definitely not. - No idea how that even works. I know the latitude of the east-to-west, 'cause it's like a ladder, latitude ladder, that's all I remember. That's from like fourth grade, though. It's long, that's from like fourth grade. That's what I remember. So 1945, he is one of the, Ralph's one of the first members of the Puget Sound Pilots Association. - Oh, of airplanes? - No, no, no, Pilots meaning ship captains. - Oh, okay. - They're called Pilots, too, like the Seattle Pilots baseball team in 1969, they were Pilots, they were ship captains. They had like on their hat, they had the braids and all that shit. - God, had nothing to do with Boeing. - Nothing to do with, no, not at all. So as a pilot, he helped captains guide their ships through the narrow straights of the sound. So that's how it would work. He was like a help guy. So now, his marriage to Margit or whatever her name, we'll call her Margot. Margot and Ralph never had any children. First of all, he wasn't around enough to knock her up. You know, he'd come into port for three days and if she's not ovulating, it's not happening. So he, yeah, 'cause he decided that he wanted to be on the open sea. He didn't wanna be an independent pilot doing boat to boat. He wanted to be out there. So it was a lot going on out there. The submarines are still, there's shit happening in the ocean that's dangerous here, but he didn't give a shit 'cause he's been fucking on two sunken torpedoed ships. So if he survived that, he's really pretty. - What are you gonna do? - Yeah, he's got a lot of friends, too. He sends out every year at Christmas. He sends out over 550 Christmas cards. - How do you know 550? - It's amazing 'cause I guess he makes friends all over the world. - Yeah, but. - Different crews, he's had. - You get their address. - And keep that, and then just to pay for the postage of all of that, all the cards, it's so much. Like, that's a lot. He would do it all himself, do he address them and all that and always send everybody birthday cards every year. Everybody liked that. Now, 1956 comes around. Remember Eleanor, the little 11-year-old girl. She's not a little 11-year-old girl now. She's 32 now. - Oh, now she's hot. - Yeah, she's now a single mother of two young girls. - Uh-oh. - And she's, you know, ready to look in for a husband, but Rolf's married to a sister, of course, or her sister, so obviously, you know, they're not gonna get together, so. But she thought he was like a heroic, cool guy, even though he's 30 years older than her. 25 years older. - And he was a tall, yeah. - Yeah, she thought he was like, she's always had a crush on him since she was 11, apparently. So his wife, Margo, becomes very ill all the time, chronically ill. - Oh, no. - So Rolf persuades Eleanor to move in with them in their home, north of Seattle. - Yeah. - Okay. Margo needed someone to care for her and her own sister. - Who better than her sister? - Who better than her sister, who, by the way, is now a very pretty blonde woman. - Right. - So Rolf doesn't like the fact that not only he's out at sea, but then he comes home and his wife's sick and there's no sexual action going on here. So Jesus Christ, Rolf thinks Eleanor, Rolf thinks Eleanor is pretty hot, tell you that much here. So they end up hooking up. - Yeah. - Yeah. We don't think that Margo was aware of this in the beginning. - Jerry, Jerry. - Jerry, yeah. Well, it gets, don't hold the Jerry's. 'Cause it's about to get like, yeah, Jerry, Jerry, and the chair is gonna fly across the screen because not only did they not think she was aware of the affair, she became aware of it because Eleanor got pregnant. - Yep. - Can't ignore that. - Hold it back, Steve. - She's not going out with guys, she's just hanging out around the house. - Jesus Christ. - Where's, there's one jizz source in this entire house? - Oh no. - It's this asshole. - So when Margo figures this out that they're having an affair and they're continuing it right under her fucking nose and her sister's knocked up. She's like, well, this isn't great, not wonderful at all. So they decide they're gonna get a divorce, the Margo and Rolf. - Oh, that poor thing. - Now, everyone's also gossiping because he lives in this house, it's the 50s and he lives in this house with these two sisters and one of them's knocked up and nobody in town's been going out with her. So, yeah. - She and Rolf were married in Finland that year, Eleanor and Rolf in 1958. And then she got gave birth to their son and they named it Rolf Jr., of course. If you're a crime and sports listener, you know, that's just par for the course here. - That's not good. - Two years later, she's pregnant with a second son named Eric. So they get that. Now, he's 60 years old and the father of two babies. - And she had two before, so there's now four in the house, yes? - Now four, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think hers are grown now is the thing. - Okay. - So they're out of the house or whatever. So, Eleanor was temporarily living, temporarily living in Norway and Rolf was working as ships, pilots from these, you know, all these different ports and everything. So, the problem is, Eleanor doesn't know this, but Rolf did. She and Rolf aren't legally married. - Really? - At the time of their Finnish wedding ceremony, they got married in Finland, Rolf's divorce from Margot wasn't final yet. - Uh oh, she didn't know that? - She didn't know that, apparently he did. Yeah. Then, so Rolf decides here he's living in Vancouver, and he sends for Eleanor and the kids. Come on guys, come with me again. Rolf, this is before Eric was born, so she was pregnant, so it's one kid and little Eric. So, Rolf bought plane tickets to bring Eleanor, pregnant as shit, and the little boy to Vancouver, and everybody's very happy here. Now, they wanted to go to America, but they first went to Canada, 'cause it's easier to get into America that way. - Sure, sure. - That's what they're doing. So, Eleanor was pretty surprised when Rolf admitted that we're not really married, by the way. - Yeah. - Just to let you know, so you know that, but he said, now I'm divorced though, so now we can get married least because of divorce with her. So, no worries. - Let's do it again. - We'll fix this. He said, I even got a Canadian marriage license for us, so we'll be totally fucking cool, absolutely fine, everything's gonna be great. Problem is, while Eleanor was in Norway and he was here, he met somebody else in Seattle. Somebody else named Nettie Ruth Myers, okay? Ruth is what she goes by. She's born in 1920, so she's about four years older than Eleanor, but younger than him, by a long shot. Obviously, by a lot. She's from Beardstown, Illinois. - Yeah. - We've been talking about like Finland and Norway and all these exotic things, and then we're like, Beardstown, Illinois. It's an hour outside of Springfield. - Didn't even know it existed until just-- - Either did I, Beardstown. I'm surprised they don't have the biggest beard festival or some shit every year. - Oh, I'm sure they do. - They do. So, her parents are the Reverend Asa Myers and Mod Myers. - Okay, yeah. - Her name is Ruth Myers, okay. So, never easy for her. Ruth came from a rough background. She came from a family of 10 children, which is always hard back then, if you're not hugely wealthy. Some of them were born in Ohio, some in Illinois. Her siblings, Mamie, Mary, Robert, Walter, Asa, Paula, Carl, Enoch, Paul, and then finally her. She's the youngest of the 10 children as well. Remember, by the way, Paul very much, and Robert, you want to remember those two, okay. Now, some of them remained in Ohio and places like that, Illinois, but some of them moved all over the country, from LA to Biloxi, Mississippi, all over the place. There's 10 of them. One of the kids died in childhood too. I don't know which one. Oh, Enoch, Enoch. - Beardstown, yeah. - Well, Enoch. - Was it long for this world? - He had the worst name, so they just fucking let him go. We can't afford to feed all 10 kids. Which one do we let go? And they're like, "That poor Enoch is never gone." He's not nothing going for him. - Yeah, run over by a plow or some shits. - Nothing's gonna happen there. He died at one year old. - Oh God. - Another brother disappeared. - Oh, he died, you mean? - Just disappeared. And then some Carl Myers also just took off during World War I. - Okay. - Ruth said he just left home and never came back. He just went missing. Okay, they sent his trunk back and all of his possessions. That was 1919. We don't know whether he's dead. I think he's dead. - He's dead. - Yeah. - He's missing during the war. - And you have all of his shit? - Yeah. He'd probably want some of it back if he was alive. - He might need it. - She said that, by the way, in like 1981. - We've had his trunk for 30 years. - 60, it's been 62 years, we think he might be dead by. I think he's dead. If not, he's 80, so he's probably pushing it anyway. Jesus Christ, Ruth and Paul were the youngest of the children. She's the youngest girl, he's the youngest boy. And that made them very close because they're in age. They hung out together a lot here. Ruth ended up moving to Louisiana to move in with a man named Morris Daniels. When she was in her, she was about 15. She moved to Louisiana with him. She had her first child a year later, Morris Daniels Jr., of course. - Right. - And then she had another kid as well, another boy. She raised the boys at some point in here before she met him, 'cause that was like 1935. So by the time she met him, they were out of the house and gone. So she ends up going to Seattle and they don't know, by the way, what she did with her kids. They don't know if she raised them or not, if she just gave them to the father. Nobody knows. - Fascinating. - But Ruth ends up meeting Rolf here. And the problem is, we'll talk about how they met, but when they met, there's a lot of rumors swirling around Ruth. - Oh. - Apparently, her mother died in the last couple of years before they met. And a lot of the people in the family think Ruth is responsible for her mother's death. - Oh. - Not good. - Her mother lived in Illinois and was very elderly, but Ruth had managed to write a life insurance policy on her through the Seattle company that she worked for. Because she worked there, she managed to get around a couple of things and get some life insurance on her. So not too long after, she became very ill, the mother. And Ruth learned that her mother had been hospitalized in her home state, so Ruth went to the hospital. And Ruth managed to convince the doctors that she could take better care of her mother at home. The problem is, she didn't, and her mother died very quickly once she was released into her care. Some of her sisters said that she deliberately fed their mother the very foods that the doctors had put on her forbidden list. - Really? - And it ended up killing her, and the woman died shortly after. So she may have murdered her with French fries, so it's not really, it didn't poison her or anything. - Some shellfish. - Yeah, something like that. They said Ruth was the beneficiary of our mother's insurance. She collected her money, and when anyone said anything to her about it, how she gave in to mom's cravings for sugar and all, Ruth just said, well, she was gonna die anyway. - Oh, so she gave a diabetic, yeah, a whole bunch of sugar. - Just give her whatever she wants. Like we used to do with my grandmother when she was like 93. She'd start drinking like whiskey at night. We're like, let her do it. Who cares? She's 93. - That's something you gotta live, man. - She's dying before our eyes. Let her drink what she wants. - Let her live while she's dying, dude. - Yeah, so we didn't try to kill her. We just wanted her to be happy as she went out, so. - Have you heard of Kelly Corrigan, New York Times best-selling author and PBS host? Kelly brings timeless storytelling to her podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, which has over 15 million downloads and many thousands of five-star reviews for its smart, candid, and often very funny conversations. Join Kelly and recent guests Bono, Spike Lee, Christy Turlington, and Jennifer Garner, trading family stories and making sense of their childhoods. You will love Kelly Corrigan Wonders, available wherever you listen to podcasts. - I wanna tell you a story. It's a story about a scandal, broken relationships, gossip, rumors, money, corporate rivalry, and a broom, a performance enhancing broom. My name is John Cullen. I'm a comedian, podcaster, and for 20 years, I was a semi-professional curler. And I wanna tell you the story about how a single broom almost imploded the 500-year-old sport of curling. - We feel like we were bringing a knife to a gunfight. - It's the story of a superstar and his fall from grace. - Well, I was being dragged through the mud. - It's the story of two brother entrepreneurs with a dream. - Yeah, I said, that's great news. - It's a story of intrigue. - I still don't understand why we wanna keep this name secret. (upbeat music) - The full story has never been told, so I'm gonna tell it. - Broomgate, how a broom almost killed curling. - It was a year I'd like to forget. - To listen to Broomgate, search for Broomgate in your favorite podcast app. That's all one word, Broomgate. - With AAA's legendary roadside assistance and access to hotel, concert, and restaurant discounts, members can expect something more. As a member, AAA roadside assistance has your back if you're stranded on the side of the road. You're covered whether you're locked out of your car, have a dead battery, need a tow, or run out of gas. Plus, roadside assistance isn't just for your car. It's with you wherever you go 24/7, 365. And this piece of mind can be yours for about $5 a month. Offer's terms, conditions, and policies are subject to change without notice. Visit AAA.com/member for details. - Her mother's insurance wasn't a huge amount of money, but Ruth is good at investing money as well. She does better financially than most of her siblings to begin with. She's very good at investing in things. She paid $5,000 for a little house in Everett, Washington. And yeah, a new house was cheap back then. You get a new house for 10 grand in Washington, they said. - And Everett was out there for a ways from Seattle. Now it's part of it, Jesus. - Yeah, now it's suburbs. So after she met Ralph, she sold this bungalow for a profit. She also owned a vacant lot as well. And all of that sort of thing. So there's good investments here, 'cause Washington real estate was spiked huge in the next 15 years. So yeah, everybody calls her Ruth, like I said. She's got a very strong personality, everybody said. I'm gonna give you some quotes from Ann Rule here. Do you don't know who Ann Rule is? She's written like a thousand true crime books. Sure, her claim to fame is she's the lady who sat next to Ted Bundy at the Suicide Prevention Hotline and got her start writing about Ted Bundy because she knew him. - She had a QB next to it. - Yep, that's how it works there. They a Taco Bell together a couple of times for lunch. So she said that, quote, "Ruth had a very strong personality and a native cunning that made her much more talented and getting what she wanted than Eleanor was." And what Ruth wanted was Ralph. - Oh. - Yes. Then she goes on to say, "Ruth could probably have made a fortune teaching a course on how to enchant a man. Nettie Ruth Myers was not a great beauty, but she had a pleasantly curving figure and she was a lot of fun. She had a full face with a sharp chin, and a sharp chin and a somewhat bulbous nose. And her tightly-permed hair, and tightly-permed hair and she wore glasses with lenses so wide that her eyes sometimes look like an owelish cast. She's not sounding that hot the way she looks. - She's describing the mom from the help. - Yeah, she's describing the fucking, "Where's the beef lady from the Wendy's fucking commercials from the 80s?" I don't know what she- - Bulbous nose and sharp chin, not great. - And she said, "Not a great beauty," but she said, "Even though she was no Lana Turner, Ruth had something more important than her physical beauty. She knew how to interest a man." Okay, so their meeting was in the late 1950s, Ruth worked for the insurance company, like we said. She planned to have lunch with a man whose offices were in the tower she worked in, but her lunch date got canceled. So she went in the elevator just as Ralph was in the elevator. She had to do something else. So she said she was instantly attracted to him. She said he had a full head of gray hair, nice strong jawline, and carried himself like a much younger man as well. - Yeah. - Yeah, Ralph's a worldly son of a bitch. You know what I mean? - Yeah, he sailed the ocean. - Yeah, he's been all over the world. He's seen it all. - Right. - So Ruth made sure that she knew his name and she gave him his name and how to get in touch with her. I work up here, give me a call and all that kind of shit. So then she asked him out to lunch, which back then women didn't ask men out very often. So he was like, "Whoa, this broad's fucking..." - What's this? - Look at her, oh boy, she's- - Oh, we're nasty. - Yeah. - She's swinging. He's like, "Sorry, I've been listening "to a lot of Sinatra lately. "It's the 50s." You know, I'm sorry. - There are chanting. - In chanting. Somebody said later she saw Ralph and she decided she wanted to have him. So, okay, now Eleanor suspects from the beginning that something's going on. - Really? - Okay, Ruth is always around. He just brings the woman he's having an affair with around. When Ralph introduced Ruth to Eleanor, he explained that she was a close business associate of his. Okay, is she fucking Gilligan now? Is she a sailor? What the fucking? You're a ship captain. - Right. - What business associate is this broad? What are you talking about? - First mate is not good when you're married. - No, probably not. So Eleanor wondered what kind of business that could be because Ralph only gives a shit about ships and he doesn't really, he's not interested in business. So it's not like he's got five side businesses and she's doing something. And she's feeling unattractive. She's like seven months pregnant when this is going on, Eleanor. And she's suspicious. She learns that Ralph said he hired Ruth to be a kind of housekeeper that would help Eleanor around the house until after their baby was born. This is his MO. - He loves getting another one in the house. - Yeah. - No way, he just moved the other one out and this one's there now. It's fucking. - The start has begun. - Wow, and Eleanor's, she's seen this movie before. - You know what I mean? - She's starting one like this. - Hey, this sounds familiar with the fuck. - They have done this. - Yeah, she didn't want Ruth around. She said she didn't need her, but sure enough, Ralph moved her in and Ruth moved into the Vancouver house and fucking made herself at home. That was that. - Wow. - So Eleanor was worried, obviously. She said that this is how this came around. She was telling her friends, this is how I met the guy and got hooked up with him. So what the fuck? How could I make sure he's not gonna do this to me now? So it's a little weird here. Ruth, by the way, also, they don't even get a long Eleanor and Ruth, even on a personal level. Now Ruth wasn't friendly and Eleanor told friends that she seemed to be, have more power over Ralph than even Eleanor did, who was his wife. At least she thinks that they're married. Ralph, then, it's weird. Also, Ruth didn't do any housekeeping. That was the whole point of her moving in, but she didn't do anything. And she didn't take care of Eleanor. She wasn't like, oh no, you have bed rest. I'll bring your soup to you. None of that shit either. So it's a very, very strange thing here. So Ruth became even more entrenched after Eleanor begins birth to Eric. She's supposed to leave them, but she doesn't. They said that she gave her opinion on their own private matters at times. Eleanor told somebody, quote, "Once Ruth suggested that I return to Norway "and have the children adopted out." - What? Go get all your kids? - Why don't you abandon your children and just go back to Norway? What the fuck? You don't need any of this, do you? - Yeah. - She said it was a very miserable situation for me, Eleanor said. She said, obviously, I wouldn't think of giving up my children, and why would Ralph want me to adopt out his sons? That's crazy. This is fucking weird, but Ruth kept doing it, kept talking shit, and Ralph never asked her to move out. So in 1961, Ralph obtained another Canadian wedding license and told Eleanor that he is gonna marry her, finally. Two kids into this. It seemed that Eleanor's like, okay, so maybe everything's okay. Maybe he's not fucking Ruth. Maybe it's all a figment of my imagination. You know what I mean? So then, Ralph ends up confessing to her. They're making a plan when they're gonna get married. Oh, maybe the 12th. Okay, that sounds good. And then finally, he said, before you hire a caterer, there's something you should know. What's that, dear? - What is it? - Well, I've been married to Ruth for a few months now. - Too late. - Too late. I used my wedding license to marry Ruth instead. - Okay. - So what the fuck? That is crazy. So Eleanor said I was so suspicious of their relationship all along. When I found out they were married, I knew I didn't want to marry him again. Now it's, I don't want to do it. - That was when? - That's what. When he decided to marry someone else, I decided I didn't want him anymore. So Ralph assured Eleanor, he said, I had no choice but to marry Ruth. I don't love her. This isn't like, I love you, obviously. But she threatened to expose me as what I don't know. And told him that Eleanor would too. I don't know, we even know what that means. He wanted to stay in America but Ruth lied and said that Eleanor was threatening to turn him over to immigration authorities for fraud because now they're in Seattle. So he said, I had to marry her slaves. She didn't turn us in. - What is happening? - So he marries her April 24th, 1961. - Why is his life in such turmoil? How is somebody able to just ruin your whole day like this? - I, the man likes waves and changes in season. That's why he likes, he likes Mondays, sunny. Next day it's stormy and choppy, he likes that. You know what I mean? What's gonna happen at this sport? Welcoming women with tiny bikinis or people trying to murder us, who knows? We'll find out. - Jesus. - So Ralph and Ruth moved back to Washington state and they're married together and she didn't want him to have anything to do with Eleanor or his two kids. - Really? - Fuck that. She kept tabs on him to be sure he wasn't giving Eleanor any money, even though he abandoned her with her two kids. - Right, those are my children. There's child's boy. - He was secretly giving them money because Ruth wouldn't let him. She discovered from time to time that he was helping her out and she'd get super pissed once she found a greeting card that he planned to send to Eleanor and it had $500 in it and she fucking lost her mind. - What year is this, '74? - The '60s, the '64. - Oh my. - We're talking '65, '66. - She's Christ. So yeah, they're doing well financially Ruth and Ralph, though, apparently. He's making good money at sea and then she does very well investing it and doing things like that. So apparently, yeah, all he got from his family, his mother down from the shipping business, his mother left her estate to him in three siblings and he got about $9,000 from it. - Okay. - So there was that. So Ralph wanted Ruth to keep doing the books and look around for properties to buy. She also called herself a horse trader. So she dealt with horses, actual horses, not just like, you know, not a euphemism. So they end up moving, they look at a property on Lopez Island and they're like, yeah, this is the shit right here. They move into Lopez Island. It's gorgeous. Ruth eventually lets Ralph see his kids, by the way. - Okay. - Wasn't, you know, easy but got it. Yeah, people were shocked because they would, here would come the two kids to Lopez Island during the summer. I guess they were allowed to come in the summer. Public records show that she had been forced to deal with this because Eleanor filed a paternity suit in Vancouver claiming Ralph was her son's father and that he should be supporting her, them. So Ralph was ordered by the court to support the kids and did that. So yeah, then in 1970, they became beneficiaries of his social security dependence benefits. - Right. - So yeah, it's wild. So they, she hated, 'cause she kept track of the money and hated to see when Ralph was giving Eleanor money. Yeah, hated it. Ralph and Ruth also liked to fight with each other. They fucking rumble. They like to drink and drink and drink. The cocktail hour starts about noon. - Oh boy. - And continues until somebody is bleeding and sleeping. - That is the thing about Southern Illinois and Indiana people, they drink like, say a lot. - They drink a lot. - Yeah. And he's literally a European sailor. He drinks quite a bit. - And she holds her own with them. - Yeah, so they would have huge arguments, big, huge blowout fights when people over and all things like that. They'd be sniping at each other, talking shit back and forth. And then eventually it would come to physical fucking altercations. They would hit each other, scratch. They even bit each other sometimes. They're nuts. The cops would have to come out. - Yeah. - Once Ruth claimed to the sheriff's deputies that Ralph forced her head into the stoves oven, put her head in the oven. I will fucking cook you. - That's on the beat, okay. - I don't know. They don't know. They said turning out, turning on the gas wouldn't work and she was, I guess at this point, too heavy to push her completely in the oven. So we don't know what his plan was. I don't know if this was a symbolic gesture or what? - Slam her head in there. - Just a symbolic gesture. I would like you to be cooked in an oven. Can't physically do it, but this is what I'm looking for. - It's clean to you. - Man, Ruth told the sheriff that she had been seeing to a roasting chicken in the oven when Ralph leaned on her shoulders and pushed her arms against the hot grill. She held her arms up and showed him the burn marks and the cop said he wasn't sure if she was really burned or if the oven racks were dirty and left grease marks on her lower arms 'cause that's what it kind of looked like. They said very drunk. They would drink so much that they couldn't even remember the details of their fights to tell the cops the next day. They would wake up in the morning surprised by themselves. They said, "Ralph, a lot of times in the morning "would have dried blood on his face, scratches, "a black eye, bite marks, chunks of hair "have been pulled out of his head "and all sorts of shit like that." - That's a fun morning. - That's great stuff. - What? - Sometimes then that was which Ruth was attacking him. Then sometimes he was attacking her. Ruth would run away from Ralph and lock herself in the little bunkhouse behind their home while Ralph, quote, slept it off. She said, "Good Lord." It is fucking wild. One couple that lived on Lopez Island said they went out to dinner one night or they went to the Nesland house for dinner and Ruth was a great dinner party person. She'd have decorations and centerpiece and the whole deal, good food. And the people said everything was wonderful. The food was lovely. This place settings were great. And then everybody started drinking after dinner. - Perfect. - And they said, "Ruth and Ralph, "one of them took offense to something the other said "and soon they were fucking battling each other. "Mark, he's flying." - Plates are flying across the room, literally breaking in the guests. We're like, "I think they're looking at their watches. "I think it's about, yeah, "I was gonna have dessert at home anyway." And they just kind of tiptoeed out. Ralph and Ruth were so into fighting, they didn't even notice everybody leave. - That's fucking wild. - Men are so dumb. How do we do this? - Soon. - They're bleeding with broken fucking plates everywhere and they're like, "Where'd everybody go?" Like, here. - She's wrong, right, Jeff? Jeff, where'd you go? - Right, Jeff? Shit. You know what, I'm gonna call Jeff up and make sure. So the wife of the one couple said, "Ruth called me the next day and apologized." She said, "I could tell she felt so bad. "She apologized over and over "for the way her dinner had ended. "I could tell she was terribly disappointed "and humiliated too. "She asked us to give her another chance "swaring it would never happen again. "Come over again. "No! "If I see domestic violence, "I'm not coming to your house anymore, period." - Yeah, I understand. I got a really nice riverized. - But I have a crown roast recipe. You are gonna die over. Seriously, it's so good. - Come over. Never again. - So 1978, Ruth claims to everybody that she was trying to get Ralph to retire. He's still captaining ships. - What? - Yeah, he's 80. He's tapped, captaining ships still. I want an 80 year old man pittering around this boat. - No. If I got on a plane and the fucking pilot was 80, I'd turn right back around and get off because he could just drop dead and midair and then we're fucked. - He may have a really terrible diagnosis that none of us know about. - That's the other thing. - And he's ready to take this whole fucker down. - I want my pilot to look like he can at least outlive the flight time. You know what I mean? - I need the pilot to look like he has something to live for. - Please, yeah. I want him to be showing pictures of his kids as you get on. (laughing) I gotta be a little Frankie's little league game on Saturday. - Yeah, I need him. - We're just up in the world. - I need those kids to have events and milestones coming up. - Let's be safe here. So Ruth said she was worried about his competence toward the end of his career. She said, "Rolf's hearing and memory were deteriorating "and so is his attention span. "I was worried and I begged and begged him to retire." She said she even wrote him a song. I called it, "Please come home to Lopez," she said. - My own Down Easter Alexa. - I wish I had the lyrics to the song, but I doubt. I have lyrics to ones for later, which are great. - Oh. - Ralph thought that if he retired, he would kick the bucket, is what Ruth said, quote unquote. For Ralph to retire, for him it would have been weak. It's weakness. - Oh. - Then the world intervenes for him. June 11th, 1978. He is on the freighter Antonio Chavez, which is, he's captaining, and they ram into the West Spokane Street Bridge and fucking collapse it. - Oh no. - He collapses a car bridge. They don't have a bridge for the next six years. - This is a nightmare. - This is, he took this shit down. All that Baltimore shit, you see? He did this. - He did it before that. - Just picture that with like Afros and big pubic hair, and then you got what's going on here, 1978. - Yeah, see a firebird running off in your water. - This with like fucking, how do you like it? How do you like it? Playing in the background. That's what this is right now. Donna Summer and this. So, the current West Seattle bridge opened in 1984 and it's still standing. That is what replaced the West Spokane Street Bridge. - Holy shit. - The incident occurred in the West Fork of the Duwamish waterway as the Chavez hit the West Spokane Street Bridge, which had been raised to allow the ship to pass through. - He missed him. - He missed. - Sounds like he had a couple of cocktails before he went out there. Whoa, pull too far to the left. - You're saying to the bridges, god damn it. - Oh man, so holy shit, that's fucking funny. No one was hurt in the collision, but it resulted in the bridge being stuck open. - Oh no. - He fucked it all up, so they had to replace it. He was carrying 20,000 tons of gypsum. - Gypsum is what did this. - Gypsum is what did this. Yeah, that is fucking amazing, I have to say. They said that he's the boat pilot. This is from the newspaper. Ralph Nesland is the boat pilot who guided the freighter Chavez on its ill-fated course in the dawn hours of June 11th, 1978. That's fucking funny. The Coast Guard investigation of the incident found evidence of negligence on Ralph's part, leading to him having to retire. - Damn it. - Yep, he then took a motorhome tour of the United States with Ruth, and then he said he's settling down in low Pezzile and it's all over. - Tired of fighting with you in this Winnebago. - Gee, imagine the fucking rumble. People are like, man, that bed when he's shaking boy, those people are having some fun in there, they're just strangling each other up against a counter. So, April 1st, 1979, he's in retirement, and the newspaper does a big fluff piece on his retirement. - Really? - Yeah, which is weird 'cause he just fucked the whole bridge up that you won't have a bridge for six years and they're like, isn't he great? - He's retiring in shame, you guys. - Yeah, but he is. I mean, he was torpedoed by a U-boat. So, you know, that's some hero shit. So, here we go. They say, quote, it was in this inauspicious manner that Ralph launched a seagulling career that lasted an unusually long 69 years. - Fuck. - Now 81, but more spry than the most men 20 years is junior, Captain Ralph Neslin recently retired from piloting ships. Ralph has left the sea, but the sea is still at his doorstep. The affable, mild-mannered master, mild-mannered. I mean, it's white for fucking wow. - It was around Ruth. - And his wife, Ruth, reside in pleasant quarters they constructed here on Lopez Island in the San Juans. From the front room, Ralph can view oil tankers entering and leaving Rosario straight. Pilots aboard those tankers sometimes sound the ship's whistle and tribute to Lopez Island's old man of the sea. - Is that right? - They know he can see them, so they fucking-- - They're whistling to him. - He's got respect. Ralph and Ruth befittingly have named their 10-acre Alec Bay compound, Shangri-La. - Wow. - The pastoral setting contains cows, sheep, and a horse called Lopez Slough. - How about it? - This is the, they have it all. This is a 10-acre, where their view is the fucking ocean, this is crazy. - We're passing tankers honk to them. - Yeah, that's so amazing. - Like a trucker down the freeway when you throw that shoulder at them, they just doing it just because. He doesn't even have to crank on the horn, Adam. They're just doing it. - Sure, they're like, "Oh, it's peeped to Ralph here." So he said, "It's 69 years on the water," and they said, "You know, what do you have to say about that?" And he said, "It was better than barbering." - Right, okay, yeah. - That's what he said, "Better than being a barber." So, and a barber, you wouldn't be retired there, I'll tell you that much. So winter of 1979 here, he's talking to Eleanor, 'cause he still talks about the kids and stuff, and he, Eleanor is telling, he tells Eleanor that he's fearful. And she knew that Ruth was weird. She said that from her personal experience, Ruth did some real disturbing shit. She said, "Sometime in the winter of 1979, "she called our phone and asked to speak to my son, "Eric, I told her that he wasn't home, "and she told me to give him a message." Okay, she said, "She said, "Tell him his father's dead, "and then hung up." He wasn't dead. - What the fuck? - She might have just been drunken being a jerk, I don't know. So, in the fall of 1979, one night, she locked herself in the bunk house and called her niece Donna Smith, and told her that if Ralph came back there, she would shoot him because she's so mad at him. When the deputy sheriff, Gregory Das, responds to a call there in June of 1980, the tablecloth and dishes were on the dining room floor. Which means the table is set there eating, somebody got up and said, "Ah, I just pulled the tablecloth off "with everything." What kind of fight is that? - You're not gonna watch this magic trick, it was just fuck your dinner. - Fuck your dinner. Ralph was disheveled and had a bright red scratch along the side of his face, and Ruth was also disheveled with a puffy face. She was in the bedroom and said she was safe there, and if Ralph came in, she'd just shoot him. So at one point, Ruth's face was black and blue in July of 1980, and Ralph said that he had, quote, "Dector won." I guess so. - I bet it was more than one. - Then he told, this is fucking, then Ruth told the cop that, yeah, he won't, don't worry, he'll never do it again, and she pointed to the rifle in the corner. - Oh boy. - Said he does it again, I'm gonna shoot him. So, June 1980, Brooks Bullion Jr., that's a great name. - That's a kid? - Brooks Bullion Jr., someone named their child, Brooks, he's an adult now, but he at some point he was a kid. Brooks Bullion Jr. is the guy who worked on their pool. - Okay, he's a pool. - He's their pool guy, but he also goes out to dinner with them. - Okay, that's cool. - So close with your pool guy. So they said they went out to dinner one night, and Ralph and Ruth had exhibited signs of a physical argument. Ralph had a scratch on his face, dried blood all over him, and Ruth had a bruise under her eye. Later on that night, he saw Ralph again, and said he had new cuts and bruises, including a deep ear cut and a cut on his lip after that. - Fresh blood. - Fresh blood. So this is a lot, they've just stormy marriage, lots of heavy drinking, all sorts of shit like that. There's a woman named Kay Shelfer, Sheffler, sorry. She lived in Seattle, and she was an old friend of Ralph's, platonic actually. - Okay, time, Ralph. - And Rule describes her as quote, "A large, rumpled looking woman." - Oh, well, why? - Very nice, okay. Kay, this woman Kay said that Ralph came to Seattle on July 29th, 1980 and told her he needed some cash. He said he hadn't asked Ruth for any that day, and so he had gone to one of their banks to cash a $75 check, and they wouldn't cash it for him. - No? - The bank told him he had insufficient funds. - Uh-oh. - So he's like, "That's ridiculous." So he stopped into Kay and just said, "We loaned me $30 so I can get back home "and see what the hell's going on here." And then, Ralph asked her about the mortgage he and Ruth held on the house that she had bought from them. He, Kay said, "He asked me when I'd be paying it off, "and I told him Ralph, I paid off that loan in 1975, "five years ago, I paid Ruth." She said, "He was shocked, he didn't know." Ralph had told her that Ruth said the loan hadn't been paid off. Like, they talked about it specifically, and she lied. He said he had no idea how much money he had 'cause Ruth was in charge of that. She was the one who collected his retirement pension and any other money due them. She did all the banking. He said he gave Ruth power of attorney to do all that. - Oh, no. - So, looks like in the middle of 1979, Ruth just transferred most of their funds, which were held as joint assets into accounts with just her name on it. Bank records show that the Ralph $78,049.50 retirement funds were used to purchase a $50,000, a joint $50,000 money market certificate on May 1st, 1979, the balance into a savings account. The money market certificate and savings account were in the names of both Ralph and Ruth. But on June 25th, 1979, she redeemed the $50,000 money market certificate early and had a new $50,000 money market certificate issued in her name only. So, she cashed that out, bought another one just for her. In the same day, on the same day, the entire $50,157.95 balance in the joint savings account was withdrawn and the amount deposited in a savings account under her name only. - Yeah. - Yes, testimony later will be that she had power of attorney and complete control over his $1,800 monthly pension checks as well, which wasn't bad money in 1980. - Yeah, but it's not great that he only has $80,000 and $2,000 a month. - That's not bad if you're 80. - It's frightening. - No, not in 1980, that's-- - Yeah, I guess you're right in '80. - In 1980, that's like having $2.50 in the bank and getting like $5,000 a month when you're 80. That's okay, you'll be fine. - That's fine, yeah, that's fine. - That smaller number, that 80 and two grand scares the shit out of me. - Yeah, now, 'cause in 2024, that would be a lot different scenario, yeah. - Yeah, 'cause what does that seem wrong? - In 1979, a little bit different. I mean, a house in 1979 was like 30 grand, 35 grand or some shit for like a regular house. So Ruth basically took all this money and locked them out of the accounts. - He's got nothing. - He's got nothing. And so she, as he told this woman, this woman ended up asking her, trying to get ahold of him to get her $30 back and couldn't get ahold of him. So she's like, now I guess this guy's ducking me for $30, this is crazy. Like, so some time goes by. - How much? - A couple of months. And then in September, on September 10th to be specific, Ruth starts telling everyone Rolf left, he's gone. Took off, never returned, yep. She called September 10th and said he took off August 14th, she called his friend Harold and said he left on August 14th, never came back. Harold said she told me that there was no need for us to come visit. Harold's his brother from Norway and he was gonna come over for his birthday, for Rolf's birthday. He said, don't bother. She said Rolf's not here. She said he drew $25,000 from the bank and was going to Europe. So we canceled our plans, he said. So, I guess his true birthday is November 3rd, by the way. He lied about that too. So, his sister phoned to wish him happy birthday and he wasn't there and neither was Ruth. And a stranger answered the phone for his sister and said Rolf wasn't there and Ruth had gone to visit her relatives. We'll find out who the stranger is. It's her brother, Robert, Ruth's brother, Robert. Eugenie didn't know, oh, this one's different. This is the house sitter Winnie. Winnie Kay Stafford, one of Ruth's friends. We'll talk about her. Very devoted friend as we find out. She and her daughter agreed to watch the house while Ruth went back East. So Winnie and her daughter moved into the house and they said that they were telling everybody, Ruth and Rolf went to Massachusetts and were staying for two weeks. She said she didn't see them leave, but shit's what she, you know, that's it. And whenever she talked to Ruth, Ruth kept saying, you know, us and we are going here and we, we, we, we. So Winnie said she received many phone calls while she was staying at Ruth's and advised the callers that they were going to Massachusetts and that's that. So now December 1980 to February 81, Ruth's brother Paul moves in. The youngest one. - Moves in. - Moves into the house. - Yeah. - Okay, Robert also lived there for a while. - Yeah. - Robert's an older brother, as they all are, 'cause she's the youngest, but older than Paul. He was visiting during the summer of 1980 and she said that Rolf had asked Robert to look after her as after Rolf left, as Rolf was going to leave. Robert had been very ill in 1980 with failing kidneys and prostate trouble. - Shit. - His pisses must be horrifying to take. - Oh, that's so much blood. - Just a mess, but he had slowly regained his strength after having surgery and he wanted to spend some months with Ruth, Ruth and Rolf in a relaxing environment and heal and get better. And they were fucking island. - Yeah, Rolf, he said that Rolf was happy about it too. And then when Rolf left, he said, well, you know, make sure Ruth's okay, basically. So January 18, 1981, Gunnar Oldsburg, okay? He's a retired pilot friend of Rolf's. He contacts the sheriff's department. - Oh? - He hasn't heard from Rolf in four months and this is not like him. And he never got a Christmas card from Rolf. And Rolf sends out Christmas cards every fucking week. - What about that? Those fucking Christmas cards made red flags go up. - Why do you think I told you about them? - Yeah. - Before they asked her. - Although, as it wouldn't have mattered in this story, I would have left it out. So yeah, they, he also placed advertisements in the local newspapers offering $25,000 reward for information on his whereabouts. It's a lot of money in 1980. - He's literally employing other people to stock this man for him. - He's in Europe, this guy. - Yeah, he's not even a missing person. - Nope, so in February '81, Rolf's friends call the police and ask to please check up on his welfare. We haven't heard from him in months. He's an old man. He stays in contact regularly and he's fucking gone. We wasn't around for his birthday. They never got a Christmas card. So they go to Ruth to see what's up. So they show up and it's a beautiful view. The cops are like, "Wow, this place is fucking amazing." When they showed up, it was sprawling house, set close to the water. She invited them in. They said she was matronly looking, short dyed hair, tightly curled perm, old lady style. - In the '70s, yeah. - So all of that, they said she also had red lipstick on and all that. They said she didn't appear nervous. She was pleasant, neatly decorated house. The two deputies said they just wanted to check on her husband, see how he's doing. She said, "Oh, he's not missing." She said, "He's not missing, he's gone." - Oh. - Difference, big difference. She said, "He took off, he's not fucking missing." - I know where he is, he's not here. - Yeah, I don't know where he is, but it's not missing. So she told them she knew perfectly well where he was, but there's, so you don't have to be concerned. So they were like, "Okay, that's a little weird." They ended up, they advised her of her Miranda rights here. They read her her rights just to do the questioning 'cause they're getting a little weird feeling. And they said, "So you're willing to talk to us?" She said, "Of course I am, yeah, what are you talking about?" She said, "Yeah, he left my home on Monday, August 11th, 1980, "a little bit more than six months ago." And she said, "Oh, wait, no, you know what, "it might have been the Thursday after that, the 14th." She said, "I can't really remember which." - You can't remember the last day you saw your husband. - He said, "I recall he took his clothes "and he wanted some of the furniture, "but he never came back to get it." She said, "And also, this is how I also know he's gone. "I came across his favorite car, "which is his Lincoln Continental. "It was in the employees parking lot of the ferry dock "over the, by the ferry run there." So, you know, she said, "But that, "I saw that like two weeks after he walked out on me." So, I mean, that was months here. She had arranged to have the car towed back to their residence. So now it's why it's in the driveway. She said, "I found it down there, though." She said, you know, and they were like, so you just, he just took off and you're kind of, you don't know real details. And she was like, "Yeah, you know, it happens." Like it was the, somebody said, "I'm gonna go out for a pack of smokes "and never came back." You know what I mean? It's one of those, so. - I mean, he's a man of the sea. He's flighty. He'll be back. - Yeah, that's what it is. Sometimes he, it's flights of fancy. He's probably hopped a steamer somewhere. You never know. - You don't know. How do you think he got here? - Yeah, Ruth told them that she was pretty sure she knew why he took off. She said, "I always suspect that he was sneaking around "with this woman named Eleanor behind my back. "You know, the woman I stole him from." Who she thinks is his ex wife. - Yes, and it's been 20 years. She said that, you know, she never, she believed that Ralph was currently with Eleanor and the two of them were off in Europe together. That's what she thought. She said, "Ralph's gone to Norway with Eleanor. "I did my best. "I followed him all the way to Norway. "I took flight to 726 on Scandinavian Airways "and went looking for him." And they said, "Well, when was that?" And she said, "I think it was October 10th. "I spent two days in Norway looking for him, "but I didn't find them." She said she hadn't contacted any of his family members in Norway because she didn't think they'd know where he was 'cause he's off with this trumpet, you know, obviously. - Getting all this trim out there. - So he said, "The cop looks back at her "and he said, "Oh yeah, that's fine. "We can check on that and you'll be on the list "of passengers, so no problem." He said, "As he glanced up, he saw that Ruth's face "was just..." - She goes what? - Yeah. - She said, "She was really startled. "Her face just dropped and her mouth hung open. "She hadn't expected anyone to follow up "on what she told us. "She figured we'd just go away and be satisfied "with her version of where the..." - Oh yeah, that flight doesn't quite exist. So that checks out. - And they said a man in his 50s, even his 60s, might be expected to leave a wife in a comfortable home in some sort of crisis to go be with some other woman, but 80? - Man in his 80s? - That's pushing it, maybe, you know what I mean? Who's got this beautiful set up too? It's everything he's always wanted and seems a little bit odd. That's weird. - He's getting horn honks from the tankers. He's not leaving. - Life is fucking fine for him, man. So Ruth, I guess, was asking, she was more, they're doing kind of good cop and kind of cop that's not bad, but just asking her more pointed questions. So she starts just turning all of her attention toward good cop here, just in there. Warren is accusing here. She didn't like the other guy. Ray Clever is his name. And we'll find out too. He's from San Diego, by the way. Put that in your bank because she's gonna make a big deal out of that later. They said that when they left, they turned, the cops looked at each other and said, I don't know whether she killed him or not, but she definitely did something to him and she's lying to us. There's something going on here. So they went back the next day, just to see if maybe they could get her to tell the same story two days in a row. - Make that woman sweat. - Yep, so they read her her rights again. She said she'll talk. They said that they were deliberately giving the impression that they believed her that Ralph may have left on his own accord, but that he might have subsequently had an accident or even died of a stroke or a heart attack and we gotta find out what happened to him, which is a clever thing. So speaking of Clever, Detective Clever, asked Ruth if she had a current photograph of her husband and she said she pointed toward several photos on the end of the table, mostly family pictures showing them together and all that kind of thing. They said it looked as though Ruth might have been feeling sentimental because there was a projector setup when they came over, a projector that to show slides and there was slides of them on vacations and shit in there. Like she was looking at slides of them doing things. They said she pictured, picked two pictures of Ralph and handed them to Ray Clever. And she said this looks like him now, what he looks like now. 'Cause there was ones all over the years of different stages of whatever. So I'm sure he had like sideburns and like, you know, from like 1971, here he is with big sideburns and like bell bottoms and here he is looking like this. So they said that she rambled and rambled in all these suspicions of where he might be. She had a lot of ideas about where she could be and that if one point Clever, Detective Clever interrupted her and said, can you give me any information about where your husband is that would help us identify him, even if he should not be alive now? And he said she stared at him as if it had never occurred to her that Ralph might be dead. And she said after that, well, he has some tattoos, old tattoos on his right forearm. He has a heart with an arrow through it. Does it get more old school sailor than that? He has seen some shit. That's the oldest like, oh man, like that in an anchor, you know what I mean? And it says Muriel above it. That was some girlfriend he had a long time ago. She's dead now. Muriel. Muriel. That Muriel, some piece of ass. Let me tell you something. He's got Muriel on his forearm. She said on his left forearm, he's got something that looks like in a coast guard insignia or maybe it's an American flag. It's a military thing of some sort. Yeah. And on the middle finger of his right hand, there's an arrow tattooed around that finger. She remembered a lot of details. They said that when they would ask her if there was any dental racks raised available, she shook her head and said his teeth are false, both uppers and lowers. Dr. Sam Anderson made them his offices on Northwest 85th in Seattle. He also had prescription glasses from this doctor. Y'all that kind of shame. So according to Ruth, it's also quite possible that Ralph had two broken fingers. She said, I think Eleanor broke them once in her lawyer's office in Canada. He never got them treated as far as I know. So that might be something to look at too, if they've had broken fingers. She then started talking about Eleanor again and going into details about all the legal problems she had endured because of Eleanor and her attorneys. They're looking for a missing person. They don't care about your relationship, Gossum. Bitching about a turn. Yeah. They said that, you know, she kept bringing it up even when they would change the subject. So Ray Clever, detective, said, have you had any letters or calls from Eleanor or her attorneys recently? And she said, no, of course not. That's ridiculous because I have nothing to do with her. They said anything else about Ralph that makes him stand out. And she said that he was bow-legged. She said too many years of riding decks on the ocean. He also had a split diaphragm, an injury that he sustained when he was a young man lifting a heavy log. What does that mean? I don't know. She also listed all of his clothing sizes, jacket size, inseam, 35 waist, 29 inseam, 41, jacket size, 15 and a half neck. 35, 29, poor bastard. That's a tiny, short pant. That's a short pant and a wide waist and a six and seven eighths hat, which is small. Small hat. She suggested that they check Eleanor's house again to see if maybe his clothes were there. She recalled that Ralph had a particular set of cufflinks that he always wore with his French cuff shirts. She said they were Viking ships. He had other cufflinks too, but I never saw him without the Viking ship ones. They asked if they might look at his jewelry box and see if he had left anything behind, but she just steamrolled right over it and kept talking, didn't ignore it. After he'd asked several more times, she finally agreed to show them the box. When the detective glanced in, he saw the Viking ship cufflinks right there. - Hey, there they are. - There they are, yep. And also there was a very expensive men's watch with a broken wristband as well. That's not a good sign. They found out the cufflinks she insisted he never went without were there. They said she became very nervous and her hand shook and she started to talk about all the histories of the cufflinks and the watch. And she wanted to show that she and Ralph have been very close and she'd been a huge part of his life and blah, blah, blah. They said, could you tell us a little more about the day your husband left? What did he say to you? And she said, well, he said, I'm not coming back. - Yeah. - Or he might have said, I'll be back for the first of the year, if ever. One of those, you know, I'm leaving and I ain't coming back. - At least six, eight months away. - They said the more she talked, the more suspicious she sounded with it. She was very odd. She said she was well aware that a man who lived on Lopez Island was spreading rumors that Ralph was dead. So I've heard people have been spreading bad rumors. She said, I made him apologize to me once for gossiping about someone I was supposed to be married to before Ralph. So yeah, but Ruth hadn't confronted the man for saying Ralph was dead, but for talking shit, yeah. They said, well, you know, anything else? She said, quote, "Ralph drinks like a European," you know? - Yeah, it's a lot. - Yeah, yeah. - She said, that means beer in the morning, almost every day, showering in the afternoon and several high balls before dinner and then wine and other booze after dinner. - Oh, boy, he said it's drinking the whole day. - Between that, the salt air, the sun and the wind, imagine what this man's skin is like. It's leather. - And the salt meat. - Leather, leather, leather. She explained that all the drinking only made his diabetes worse, though. So in addition to making his diabetes worse, she said, quote, "And it made his blood toxic, too." - Oh, so he was static? - So does that mean? How does drinking make your blood toxic? I've never heard of that before. - If it hurts your internals, like you're, you know what I mean? - If it hurts your, I don't get it. - I don't think that's, I guess that toxic blood would be a side effect of a way worse disease. Yeah. - Yeah, that's what I mean. She said, "That's why I tried to make excuses for him when he started hitting on me. He never remembered later about even fighting with me." - Really? - Diabetes took over. - Sound the gifting panic alarm. You need an amazing gift. Wait, no, the perfect gift. And it needs to say, I'm a thoughtful person and I appreciate you and I know exactly what you like all at the same time. Relax, now you can use gift mode on Etsy. Gift mode on Etsy takes the stress out of gifting so you can find the perfect item for anyone and any occasion. It's easy, just tap or click gift mode on your Etsy app or Etsy.com. Then answer a few short questions about who you're shopping for and what they like. And gift mode instantly gives you curated gift ideas based on hundreds of personas. Now it's simple to find gifts made by independent sellers for all the people in your life. So whether you need a housewarming gift for the new homeowner or a birthday present for the pickleballer, gift mode has you covered. Need to find the perfect gift? Don't panic. Try gift mode on Etsy now. Here's a cool fact. A crocodile can't stick out its tongue. Another cool fact? You can get short-term health insurance for a month or just under a year in some states. UnitedHealthcare's short-term insurance plans are designed for people who are between jobs coming off their parents' plan or turning a side hustle into a full-time gig. Underwritten by Golden Roll Insurance Company, they offer flexible budget-friendly coverage with access to a nationwide network of doctors and hospitals. Get more cool facts about UnitedHealthcare's short-term plans at uh1.com. - So then after these cops leave, these two cops leave, you know, she answers all their questions. She gets mad and calls up the undersheriff who she knows to complain about these cops coming to the house to bother her. - Yeah, can you tell the cops to stay out? They said she phoned our undersheriff, Rod Taverty. TV-R-D-Y, Taverty, I guess. - Yeah. - She admitted to him that she might have, you know, said some of the things she told us were more fluffy than they actually were, but that she said that because she didn't like that, quote, "California Detectives Questions." - Oh, San Diego, man. - So she made some of things up, she said, 'cause she didn't want to talk to him. Yeah, he's lived here for 20 years this guy, by the way. He's not like, he didn't come in like, "What's up, bra?" With a surfboard under his arm. - She just admitted to the undersheriff that she just lied to cops. - Yes, because they were over here and they shouldn't have been over here. She then said, "Now, talking to you, "I remember more about the arguments that we've had, "you know, just prior to when he before he left. "I didn't tell those cops about it 'cause I didn't like him." And she said they had been about Eleanor. They said he definitely wanted to give money to her $15,000. He was putting pressure on me to let me give, let him give that woman $15,000 of our money. It was my money too, so she didn't want to do it. By the way, the pilots and their wives have had a bunch of parties since August and the last one was in January of this year, which of course, Ralph did in the 10, but Ruth showed up. - By herself? - They said she had quite a bit to drink and one couple recalled she made an odd remark. She said, "Ralph won't be coming home again. "Ralph's in heaven." - Oh, oh. - Ralph's Jesus in heaven, this is okay. - So they asked her about it now and she shook her head. The cop asked her, "Did you say this at a party?" And she said, "No, no, that's not what I said." I said, "Ralph would be in seventh heaven "if only he could be here." This party's heaven, you know? They said, "What do you think Ralph is using for money?" And she said, "He told me when he left "that he'd be taken care of by the Elkinsons, "which is the Eleanor's family." Later, though, Ruth seemed to have an answer for everything, but she did admit that she lied to Detective Clever about them going to Norway in October. She said she had left the island two months after Ralph walked out, but she hadn't flown to Norway. Instead, she just went to Louisiana to visit her son and relatives who lived there. 'Cause they checked up and they're like, "We cannot find any record of you going to Norway." No, not the airline, not immigration, not customs, nothing. - Yeah, customs doesn't have a record of you. - Then she said that she'd been so mortified knowing Ralph was with Eleanor that she hadn't told her good friends and relatives the real story, 'cause she was embarrassed. She told one friend that she was going to Norway and another that she was going to Louisiana. She said, "You see, I read a letter, "I read a letter that was addressed to Ralph "and sent it to the pilots association, "and sent to the pilots association. "It was from Eleanor. "Ralph always told me that he didn't want a divorce for me, "but Eleanor sued us for $75,000 to support her two sons. "She was going to cause trouble for Ralph "by telling that he lied about his age back in 1917 "so he could get first mate papers. "I don't think they care about that in 1980." - We are 60 years removed from this, ma'am. - Two World Wars later, we're good. - I feel like the statute of limitations has vastly expired. - Yeah, I don't think anyone goes, let's take away everything he's done then. He's been doing that a job for 69 years. She said, "Before Ralph left me, "he told my brother Robert that Robert "had to stay here with me. "He told my brother, she's going to need you, "and I realized that Ralph was going to be gone "a long, long time." So they're searching for Ralph. They don't know what happened to him, so they search for him, they check with relatives in Norway, they check with Norwegian police, the US Embassy in Norway, Interpol, Immigration, Customs, everything you can imagine to see if he went to there. They check with the FBI, they check with the departments of motor vehicles in all 50 states to see if he applied for a driver's license somewhere. They contacted friends and relatives in America, nothing, no one's seen him, no one's heard shit from him, nothing. - What the fuck? - The person we really need to talk to is Eleanor. - Yeah, yeah. - And they do. They found Eleanor very easily the cops. Ralph wasn't with her. - No. - She's in Norway, chillin'. - Has she seen him? - No. She had traveled to Norway, but she did it with her new husband. She got a new husband. She traveled there with, that's why she's there. She said they learned that, she said they, she and Ralph have been friends throughout the years, he's been nice to her, and when they talk to her, they're like, this isn't the woman that seems, 'cause Ruth is like, she's been trying to lure him away for me for years. They're like, that's not what this seems like, she seems happy with her new husband, what's going on here. So, then they start having, Eleanor says that he was an unhappy man who wanted to come back to Norway, but was afraid that Ruth would track him down. That's what Eleanor said. Eleanor said that they, if I come and I leave there, they, meaning her and her brother, Ruth and her brother would find me. And he also said he was afraid of being poisoned, and said, if I die, make sure there's an autopsy performed on me, 'cause I think she's gonna poison me. So, yeah, she said he was an unhappy man, he wanted to start over in Norway, and she said that at one point he said, I want you and the boys to have everything I have left, money-wise. Ruth has something to say though. She then comes out to the cops and goes, you know, thinking about it, I think he killed himself. I think he's a suicide, he's dead somewhere. She said, now that I think about it, after the bridge thing and all that, he was very sad. She said, his mind was kind of going, he was hallucinating some and drinking a lot. Hallucinating any is bad. She said, ever since the ship hit the bridge, he brewed it a lot, he would sit for three or four hours at a time, only getting up to fix himself a high ball. Really? Yep, so then newspapers, 'cause she talks to newspapers, so then they start putting out articles saying that he was very depressed before he left, and all this type of shit, brought on by the bridge collision, which everyone said, oh, that makes sense. But the cops aren't that, they don't believe that shit. No, they don't believe the shame did it? They don't buy it based on everyone else they talk to. They said he loved his life, and he just couldn't stand Ruth basically, so they start looking into Ruth, and they start looking into credit card purchases, phone calls, tax filings, bank deposits, withdrawals, medical care, all this type of shit. And they said that Rolf had a bank account in Norway, where he kept a few thousand dollars, that was the money that his mother left him. He's had that there for years and years and years. He hadn't withdrawn any of the money from there, nor had he tried to access any of the bank accounts he shared with Ruth. Not after August 8th, 1980 is like the last, that's the last record of him doing anything with money. Really? After, and all the checks were written and signed by Ruth. Then Ruth had a lot of paper trails. She continued her life after he disappeared. On August 14th, which is the day she said he left, Ruth put an ad in the Friday Harbor Journal, paying $9.10 to offer shit up for sale. It was a classified ad. Commercial meat-drinder, $550. Uh oh. Antique sewing machine, $50. Potbelly stove, $100. Office furniture, sofa and share, $125. Record a call, $350. It's like an answering machine, I think. Steel desk, $100. And a 1968, nine-passenger station wagon, $500. A 1964 Ford Fairlane 500. Sick. $450. And a 65, I guess it's gotta be 65 and a half, 'cause that was 64 and a half. So 65 Mustang fastback pony seats, $2,000. And that's by the way, his Mustang was his prized thing. So the day he left, she put his car up for sale is what she's saying. So April 13th, 1981, they show up at the house to do a little look around. They go, "We just wanna make sure." And this is a limited search. They can only poke around the outside and look for some shit. They can't go do anything. They can't dig anything up. They located several green plastic garbage bins behind the house. They were filled with burned and partially burned debris. When it was spread out on a screen and examined, they found a single spent 22 caliber cartridge and bagged it for evidence. The burned and partially burned material in the cans was an unusual. It was insulation, beer cans, blackened metal, glass jars, some carpet. Nearby, they saw a blue metal burn barrel containing some still burning coals. So they said, "There's no garbage pickup on the island." So they all burned their garbage, everybody. They said that this one was new, though, the burn barrel, which is weird 'cause everybody has old ones. They've been doing it forever. Its paint had barely been singed. It was far too new to hold the remains of somebody who disappeared eight months before. So they're like, "It's not in here." But where's her other burn barrel that she had before this? - Right. - They said, "This is very fucking weird. Weird." So they spread out over the yard, looked into the pasture land behind and they're looking all around. They're looking for signs of disturbance on the ground where somebody would have been buried. No suspicious dips, humps, patches of grass that are growing extra, none of that shit. So they moved into the residence and searched it, but the search warrant listed specific evidence they were allowed to look for. Bullet holes in the wall and/or blood stains. That's it. - That's it. - Couldn't pull up carpets. They couldn't do any of that shit. So they tested a number of stains to see if they were blood and they weren't. At one point, one of the cops sat with Ruth in her living room. He noted a book on her coffee table, a reader's digest condensed edition of, quote, "To catch a killer, how to get away with murder." - Readers, did I just? - He said, "I looked down at it and looked back at her." He said, "We both looked at the thing at the same time "and made eye contact with each other." And we're like, "Oh boy." - We both smiled. - They spent two days searching, but in the end, there was nothing at all that they could construct as physical evidence, just a single bullet. And that didn't mean shit because people out here shoot. She has 10 acres and they said she shoots all the time. She's known to be very skilled with guns. And a lot of times that people in this area have guns to fire off when dogs are harassing their sheep. It scares the dogs away. So yes, they said, "We have a suspect. "We have a motive. "We don't have a body. "And we think there was one here once "is what the cop told his other cop buddy here." So she was pissed though. She told everyone they came here and searched and they didn't find anything. This is ridiculous. So yeah, April 21st, 1981, this is right after the search, she goes to the newspaper to talk about how sad she is he's gone. - Oh. - She's trying to get public sentiment on her side. This is April 21st, 1981. This is from the article, "A stack of magazines "is sprawled on Ruth Neslin's coffee table. "The covers are smudged with inky fingerprints. "The corners turned up and tattered. "National Geographic, Time, Newsweek, McCall's. "Ruth Neslin does a lot of reading these days. "But on one corner of the table stands a shorter stack, "arranged in perfect formation and unread. "Ruth Neslin doesn't touch the copies of Marine Digest. "She's saving them for her husband, Ralph." - Oh, she's keeping them. - Yeah. - You've missed these. - Yeah, Ralph Neslin hasn't been home in eight months, but Ruth Neslin believes he will return soon to read his magazines, play with his grandchildren, spend his afternoons pouring over the memorabilia he collected in his 69 years as a merchant sailor. He seemed to be adjusting to retirement, Ruth Neslin said, until last August 13th when he disappeared. The San Juan County Sheriff's Department searching for any clues to Ralph's whereabouts, but so far, Sheriff Ray Sheffer said that we've reached a dead end. Not at all, that's just what they told the press. Meanwhile, Ruth Neslin tries to keep busy, reading, talking on the phone, searching for clues. I miss him a lot, she said. He was the captain and I was his crew. Ruth, wow, Ruth Neslin doesn't want to think about her husband's disappearance. She says the possibility that the adverse public publicity surrounding the bridge crash and Ralph Neslin's involvement in it may have compelled him to suicide, didn't occur to her until recently. Before reading the articles, Ruth Neslin said she believed her husband had left Lopez Island to travel to his native Norway with another woman with whom he'd previously been involved. Sheffer said that he checked with American and Norwegian immigration officials and they have no record of him either leaving the US or arriving in Norway. The woman Ruth Neslin's suspected of traveling with Ruth is living in Seattle and claims to know nothing of Ralph Neslin's whereabouts since he left home. She says her husband showed no evidence of wanting to die, but in the last few weeks, she has remembered something else. Quote, he told me that if he ever had a bad accident, he'd seek the briny deep. He'd just walk into the ocean and let it take him. - The briny deep. - Seek the briny deep. She said those words to a man writing. - Do you have a David Jones locker reference? Come on. - No, she was going back and forth, briny deep, JV. You know what, let's go with briny deep. It sounds more, you know, it's more, it's more fucking formal. - Timely, yeah. - I never really thought about that remark until recently. And still she believes he's alive. She said, I have to believe that. I'm that kind of person. - Yeah. - Right after that, by the way, Ruth's niece, Joy Strup, writes a letter to the sheriff's department up here. She said she wants to, by the way, Joy is one of her sister Mamie's daughters. Joy wrote, she wanted to talk with someone in authority about her aunt Ruth. She said Ruth had evidently called her many times between November 79 and July 80. Most of the time she'd been drinking and said crazy things like, I'm watching Rolf out the window. I could shoot him from right here. Sometimes she spoke of, quote, "wasting Rolf," or, quote, "burning him." Joy's sister Donna lived in the Seattle area. She was the girl who had been like a daughter to Ruth when she was younger, but Donna remembered the time that Ruth locked herself in the bunk house to keep Rolf away. Ruth called her, saying, "If he comes back here, I'm gonna shoot him." That was in the fall of '79, and Ruth had threatened violence toward her husband in numerous phone calls since. They said there was so many phone calls that she was drunk and saying this shit that Joy had just dismissed it as drunken ravings, rantings. So in conversations though, between these, she kept talking about wasting him and burning him. Then in July 1980, in the presence of her niece Donna Smith, she said that, "I won't have to put up with him much more, or I'm going to do away with him," and then said, "I won't have the problem of Rolf much longer." July '80. So these two here, Joy and Donna here, those are sisters, they're like, "Whoa, this is fucking crazy." They say they both received phone calls from Aunt Nettie Ruth on August 8th, 1980. Joy told the detective Ray Clever that she was at work estimating that it was about noon in Ohio, about 3 p.m. in Washington when her aunt called her. They had a brief conversation, about three minutes. She said it was crazy. She said, "This was the secret that had this been going on." She said this was the information that she was waiting for. According to Joy, Aunt Ruth contacted her there and told her that she shot Rolf and burned his body. Yes. That day? Yeah, she was like, "No, probably not, that probably didn't happen." She said, "I was very busy at work and just told her I'd call her later." She said, "She's probably just drunk." She said, "I didn't want to believe what she's saying. I thought she'd been drinking again." Two days went by and Ruth called again and she was like, "Yeah, I think she was just drunk." She thought that Ruth was spouting nonsense and all of that. But then on August 10th, she told her the same thing. She killed and burned him. She said then as time passed, Joy, even though she didn't want to believe it, she said, "Well, why didn't Rolf take his clothes with him when he left?" Because Ruth offered to send his clothes for me and my husband because they were about the same size. Oh my God. She's like, "Why would you do that?" Later, Joy mentioned to Ruth that her daughter was having trouble with a boyfriend who was too persistent. And Joy talked of a plan to get the guy to leave her alone. Ruth said, "I know a better way to get rid of him." I'm good at this. Jesus fucking Christ, man. I'm in a Dixie Chick song. I know what I'm doing. So that's fucking insane. Then here, she goes into detail too. She says, "Robert held Rolf while she shot him, then helped her drag the bloody body to the bathroom. There, they chopped him up with a broad axe and a butcher knife, burned his remains in a trash barrel after they ground down some of them in the meat grinder." Meat grinded him. Meat grinded him and then sold the fucking meat grinder to people who make meat. Yes, sold it to somebody else with Rolf all over it. Yup, then Paul, the other brother. He told authorities that on several occasions, Ruth told him that she shot her husband. She also reportedly told him that her husband fell over a couch when he was shot spraying blood and brain matter in the living room. His body was cut up in the bathroom. Pretty similar story. Ruth told Joy that, quote, "She and Rolf had a fight and that Ruth's brother Robert held him and that Ruth shot him and killed him." So, they also find out that this was a fight over the finances because that's what she said. She talked about the $50,000. Then Robert Myers, who's the other brother, told Paul Myers that when Rolf Neslin told Ruth to come up with the money or else, that Ruth gave him or else. That's what she said. Wow. So, that is fucking interesting. So, now they head to Illinois to talk to her brother Robert. According to him, that's exactly what happened. Ruth now, Robert is sick as fuck on dialysis, not doing well. So, they-- He's gone to just fucking spill. He doesn't care. Yeah. Yeah, he doesn't give it shit. He's dying. So, they said, "Yep, we had a broad axe and a hacksaw and a butcher knife, and we cut it up, burned him in the backyard, put some in a meat grinder." And then Robert said, "He pulverized the remaining bones." Then what was left of him from the meat grinder and the pulverized bones was mixed with manure and used as fertilizer for her flower garden. She turned fuck out of here. Her husband into a fucking flower garden. She raised daisies. She made him push daisies. Push the little daisies and make them come up as we eat what's-- Wow. After all of this, Ruth commented, "First time the old bastard ever smelled sweet." Oh, what a bitch. She is rough, and that's her brother who said that, not somebody else. So, they visited Robert and they said he is-- He's also half senile half the time, and he's all sick, and there's no way they're going to bring him back to Seattle for-- then put him in jail. Like, they're just-- he's in a convalescent home, so we just leave him there. The nieces and foe and his info need leads to a new search warrant that is very invasive. Rip the fucking house apart and find what you need. Underneath some new carpet, they found a trail indicating the presence of blood on the concrete floor of the residence and a spot of high velocity blood mist was found on the ceiling of the house as well. Spatter. The blood spot on the ceiling was a type. They said that it only happens caused by gunshot wounds. It's very fine. It doesn't happen for anything else. So, they test the blood. It's a type A blood, but now they have to find what fucking blood type Ralph was. They also find a gun. They find a lot of guns we'll talk about, but one particular gun had blood on it, on the gun, indicating that it'd been used to shoot either a human or an animal from a range of three feet or less. Close feet, yeah. Turns out it's type A human blood. What's wrong? That's what let's do that shit. So, to find that out, because they had no way of figuring out what Ralph's blood type was, they didn't have anything on file. He never donated blood, nothing like that. They used the same technology they used for ancient Egyptian mummies. They have this new thing, basically, that where they configure this out. So, this new technology they use to type the blood of mummies they use for Ralph, and they found out Ralph is type A. That's not good. Same thing. January 1982, this is still going on, Paul is pissed at Ruth, because Ruth is scamming her own brother. He wrote a letter to her saying, "Dear Sis, I've called you several times, "and have finally come to the conclusion "you have made a mistake. "Love and affection that I have for you, "and the blind addiction to your needs, "I believe, have given you the impression "that I am to be treated like a dumb sucker. "I'm not going to call you anymore, or write you anymore. "You get the money together that is mine, "and get it to me, or send me the something "that you can't read it, and I'll come get the car. "If you don't, I'm going to Seattle, "and I'll show you who's a sucker. "You're bro, Paul. "You're bro. "You're bro." So, apparently, he showed up in February '82 to claim the vehicle that Ruth had promised to him, but when she got there, he got there. She told him, "Car's gone, sorry." - I already sold it. - Yep, he was convinced that Ruth and her neighbor, Winnie, the friend Winnie K. Stafford, had colluded to hide it from him. It's in Winnie's house somewhere. Despite the fact that she was 15 years younger than Ruth, they were really close her and Winnie. So, at this point, she decides, "She's going to turn her house into a bed and breakfast. "A high-end bed and breakfast." Yeah, you know, with blood stains all over it. She's a good cook. She specialized in baked goods and homemade sausage. She's entertaining. She knows how to put on a good dinner party. There'd be virtually no startup costs and she could get $150 to $200 a night for each room. - Wow. - So, Paul heard about this and said, "Well, you owe me a share of this shit "'cause you stole my money." He didn't have a house or a job or money in the bank and she burned him on the car deal. And so, you know, he said he was going to convince her that she needed a man around the place to help with chores and for protection. So, he'd go into partnership with her. Okay, now, the second search warrant, after Paul gets pissed off at all this, when she tells him no, he tells the cops everything, the invasive one, a little bit more that they find. We'll go to the whole deal here. What they find here, by the way, Winnie K. Stafford is there and Ruth is there, 1102 a.m., the two women sat there. They said just, you know, upset. They left two and a half hours into it. They just took off. Ruth came back the next day to pick up her blood pressure cuff and a hot water bottle, complaining to everyone with an earshot that it was terrible that an ill woman should be treated so badly, forced out of her home, our own home, while cops pawed through her belongings. She told Detective Clever, quote, "There's about 50 people who would like to come in here "and squeeze your head." 50, 50, yeah. A few minutes later, she called the house again and demanded that they turn off her outside lights, even though she's the one who left them on. It's my light though. Yeah. Her attorney's called the search preposterous. They said neither they nor their client had seen any affidavit listing what the searches were looking for. They said, "We think there's no basis for it. "We have no problem with them taking a look at what's there "because maybe that will shut them up once and for all." They're going to just look around, then they're going to go along on their merry way. Ruth said she was taking the search very hard, quote, "It not only creates a physical hardship "by her being displaced from her home, "but serious emotional trauma as well." So the carpet, when they found under the carpet, it's because a patch of the carpet looked newer than the rest of it, although the pattern was exactly the same. She had a chunk cut out, huh? Yep, they found out she went to Willett's carpet on August 16th, 1980 and bought eight square yards of carpeting and seam tape. That was eight days after the eighth when they think he disappeared. She seam taped it. Yep, then on March 23rd, eight, 1981, after they first talked to her in late February, she went back to the same store to purchase new carpeting and tape again. This carpeting, which they said matched the present rug in the master bedroom. They said if it wasn't, she didn't completely redo her home, it's just certain sections had been patched or replaced so that the rooms would look casual. Looked like they were normally in fine and all that kind of thing. Ruth said in a tone, quote, that she wanted to keep our home just the way it was so he'll see it when he comes back to me. The two investigators said, let's look at that carpet. They found deep red stains. They also said Ruth's bedroom was a small armory. Loaded handguns and rifles up against the wall under the bed, in the closets, in the drawers. Wow, just everywhere. She's like fucking Rambo. Me. This is fucking crazy. The search warrant listed any weapons she might possess. According to those who knew her, she was quite familiar with guns. They'd seen her shoot deer from her front door. What? They've seen her shoot at cats to scare them away from quail on a property. She could shoot rifle, shotguns, handguns, everything. The Smith and Wesson 38 caliber revolver, it was at the bottom of a dresser drawer. That's the one that they found blood spatter on as well. They said, one neighbor said, Ruth was one hell of a shot. They also found a cult python and a pouch along with six rounds, a Winchester 22 Magnum rifle with a scope, which had 11 live rounds in the chamber, also a Marlin with a scope and eight live rounds, an Ithaca 20 gauge shotgun, a 30-odd six shotgun, and at least two dozen boxes of bullets ranging from 22s to the shotgun shit. So, wow, numerous knives of every size and a chopper, as well as hatchets, hacksaws, machetes, and axes. This is inside the house, not outside the house. But this was, of course, the home of people who lived in the country and you do your own chores and you know, this could seem normal. But the fact that her husband's missing is a little weird. - This many knives and this many guns, she is petrified. Well, how many bad people does she know? - That's weird. They found a homemade voodoo doll with a nail driven through its chest. - Oh. - I thought that was odd. They searched her bedroom and they said there was little to find. They said it reminded me of my own grandfather's bedroom, the cop said, very spare with few items in a beyond a bed and a dresser. It was like a simple hotel room. They took the jewelry box with the Viking cufflinks and his medical or rich badge tag, which he didn't take with him either. - He didn't even take that. - Nope, during, it's fucking insane. This is a 10 day search, by the way, that they do. So they said that it'd become habit to keep their eyes focused on what might be in plain sight that they may have missed. So one cop's laying on the carpet looking up at the ceiling. As he looks back, he said he's stretching out 'cause his back hurt. He said he saw the faintest mist of something dark brown against the ceiling tiles. So the faint dots weren't all over the ceiling. In fact, it looked like most of the ceiling had been resurfaced with a textured paint product, but one section had been missed. It was stained with what looked like blood spatter, fine spray, high velocity spatter. He said it was right over where Rolf's easy boy chair was. He always sat right there. I can remember Ruth sitting on her bed and telling me about how Rolf had hit her even though she never had a mark on her and Rolf sitting in that chair with scratches and cuts all over his face 'cause that's a cop that had been out there before. The two deputies grabbed a saw and cut that section out to be tested. Then they looked down. They saw the concrete floor slab in the shadow area behind the couch. They said it was porous enough that it too had absorbed some liquid. They discovered that another concrete slab leading to the master bedroom was also stained. They were both marked with some fluid deposited there. They tested positive for a chemical design to clean concrete called Crete New. Yes, but it didn't work 100% of the way because they said they still found shit. They said we tented off the area to keep concrete dust from floating around the living room trying to keep the rooms as clean as we could, but it was like a dust storm in there 'cause they had to cut out a chunk of floor. So they took turns with a jackhammer until they were able to lift and remove a number of concrete slabs for testing. Despite the Crete New, the lab would be able to tell blood. They said that's the first time I ever had to use a jackhammer in a crime scene. And we couldn't use a wet. A wet saw to cut through the concrete because it might have diluted any blood in there. Right. There was so much concrete dust. We vacuumed several times, but Ruth Neslin was still furious afterward because of the dust. Wow. They said that they put luminol down and shit popped like crazy. They said it popped on the frame of the sliding glass doors of the tub in the master bathroom. They found similar stains on the walls of both the master bedroom and bathroom. Even a faint patch of droplets between the master bedroom and a bathroom on the other end of the hallway. A large stain resembling the imprint of a hand appeared on a carpet pad in the living room along that path. The handles of a wheelbarrow also reacted to the luminol. Uh-huh. Further testing, all stains proved to be type A human blood. In certain areas like the slabs, there was so much blood that the person who had blood there would have to have suffered a major probably fatal wound. Pools of blood. So much blood the person's probably dead. Yes. Now they said A positive, A is very common type. It's the most common type. And Ruth also had A blood. And no one knew what type of blood Ralph had at the time. We'll find out later. It's fucking A. But they said the stain spatters and myths they found proved to be human blood. And they said, OK, this is pretty fucking crazy here. Yeah. So they found out it was type A. They couldn't be more specific 'cause DNA isn't around, obviously. They said they're collecting all this evidence. And then at the end, when they were all done, the last thing they bagged was readers digest to catch a killer. At least the cops said, "This time we took it. It seemed pertinent." Yeah, it's a pretty good book. It's fucking insane. So this is wild. They also found out that in '81, people had refinished the ceilings. They found the people who had refinished it. And the ceiling was apparently resurfaced after the blood was deposited and the blood was found only in the non-resurfaced area. She didn't realize it. Also, they found out that she replaced a living room couch and they said a trunk which was behind the couch had type A human blood and bloody gray head hair on the lid. He has gray hair, by the way. So not good, let's just say here. Master bathroom. So basically exactly what Robert said, shot him in the living room, dragged him to the bathroom, cut him up, brought him outside. Exactly what the evidence shows. So the 38 caliber revolver, they said also, has type A blood on it. Right, and shot was something powerful enough to blow head hair off and amissed into the fucking ceiling. High velocity, which is the 38 would be there. So the roof is arrested, obviously. Yeah. The town freaks out because rumors start flying about, you know, she cut him up and then put him in a meat grinder. So they found Jean Plummer, a Lopez butcher who lived on Port Stanley Road, turned over the items that she bought from Ruth, a meat grinder, a grinding auger, and four grinding and cutting attachments. The Plumbers, that never used the meat grinder because of the rumors they felt after they got it, they heard the rumors are like, we should really shit through it. So when they ran tests on it, they found no stains of any kind of anything. This thing had been cleaned very well. Like no, not even like a little piece of turkey, nothing. Like it was boiled. Yes, exactly. So they said, okay, that's something but the meat grinder rumors get really big here. Then a guy named John Saul, who's a Lopez Island thriller offer, he started writing limericks about this shit. A thriller author? Yeah, he writes like crime books. He wrote, he said, quote, "One night at the Alec Bay Inni, "a drunk shot Ralph Neslin, the Nini. "While dear brother Bob chopped him up in the tub, "Ruth served a drink to friend Winnie. "Next door. "There was once a lady named Ruth, "whose problems was telling the truth. "She shot up her hubby, cut him up in the tubby, "and now needs a pardon from Ruth. "There was a low-peasy in named Ruth, "who tippled a little vermouth. "She shot her man dad and cut off his head, "the judge said that Ruth was uncouth." Not bad. "Some said the old lady was kinder "than one who would use a meat grinder. "Some said she stole money, but Ruth said that's funny. "Yes, guilty is how they will find her." So he's clever, that's fine. Yeah, it's not bad. They're not gonna arrest Robert. They find out he is probably the one of the cops said he's probably in his last days. He's on a kidney dialysis machine in bed 24/7. Yeah, he's gonna die next week. He's more worried about bed sores than convictions at this point. So will they be able to convict her, or is it once again? No body, no crime. They've got no body. Is Marley singing it deep for us? ♪ Nobody, no crime ♪ One more again. One more again. They said if no one can find the body, this is by the way the Spokane County prosecutor, Donald Brockett, said if no one can find the body, chances are you can get away with a murder. That's not good. He said that in the newspaper. Right. Don't print that. If you get rid of it, we can't get you. Don't write that part down. I was just telling you that. He said how many thousands of missing persons are there, and how many of those are the result of murders where someone really sat down and plotted it out, and with just a little bit of luck got away with it? Shit loads is the answer. Wow. They said you'd have to dispose of the body in a way no one can find it, 'cause if you can do that, who's to say this? Don't walk us through it, man. He said if you can do that, who's to say there's a murder? That's real reassuring, bro, thanks. Here's how you kill someone and get away with it. From the county attorney. I am locking myself in a bedroom forever. He's like, I'm really tired of prosecuting shit. I'm gonna tell you guys how to get away with this. Yeah. So she has been arrested, like I said, they let her out on bail. And so for three years, she runs a bed and breakfast out of her house that she killed her husband in, allegedly at this point, without going to trial. His body still isn't located. This, by the way, if convicted, she will be the first person in the state of Washington to be convicted on a murder without a body. It's fascinating. First, no body, no crime. Jury selection was interrupted for more than a week when she was hospitalized for a severe nosebleed. By the way, that's her excuse is about the blood in the houses. It's from me, I had a bad nosebleed. My nosebleeds are so bad. It's a mist. You think it's, plus you think it's a corpse has been dismembered here. That's how bad they are. Yeah, tip your head back and it just sprays up. Everywhere. They have a jury of 12 men and three women and they'll pick numbers to see who's going to be the 12 from there out of that. It took two and a half weeks to fucking get this jury. It was the longest jury selection process in the judges 35 years as a lawyer and judge, he said. So there we go. The judge said they must prove him dead by criminal means in order to prove their case against Ruth. That's what the jury's told in the beginning. That's all you have to figure out. So the Superior Court judge here, Robert Bibb, Bobby Bibb, told the prosecutors that they are allowed to interweave their circumstantial evidence with statements made by others about the crime. They said when the state's case ends in about two weeks to judge will decide whether prosecutors have in fact shown that he's dead and if not, he'll dismiss it. They said, we don't even know he's dead. Okay. So the prosecutor in his opening said, Ruth Neslin siphoned $100,000 from joint accounts into her own name, then shot and killed her elderly ship pilot husband, Ralph, when he tried to regain his fortune. That's what he said. This is a case about a woman who couldn't get along with her husband after he retired. This is a case about a woman who intentionally killed her husband when he confronted her about the missing funds and disposed of her husband's body in the hopes the crime would not be discovered. Right. The defense attorney, Fred Whedon, reserved his opening statements till later. He said, I'll do it at the conclusion. I'll just do closings. I don't need this shit. That's fucking funny. Also, the judge ruled that Robert Myers earlier testimony before an inquiry court is admissible here 'cause he's too sick to make it here. They're gonna just put his testimony into the record and the jurors are gonna be able to read it. In that testimony, he denied that anyone killed Ralph. That's when they talked to him before he went back to Illinois and was sick and admitted at all. So the defense is like, we're gonna use this and say this is the truth. But Paul testifies. And he testifies, he overheard his brother and Ruth describe the slaying while he was present in the house. Like she said, he said, I was sitting there. There were five feet away just talking about it. Like remember when we cut his arm off? Remember we didn't know what to do with his head? Like shit like that. Uh-oh. November 21st of '85, after several trial delays and interruptions caused by Ruth's ongoing health problems and her excessive use of alcohol, she'd feel like, I can't make it today, I'm hung over. I am fucking hammered. The judge orders her. Did you just murder a trial another day? Queer it is. The judge orders her to stay in the island's convalescent center each night except Friday and Saturday night, the remainder of the trial. The turn up nights. That'll get her to there on time. The defense case here. Witnesses talked about several incidents that could explain the presence of blood stains found on the floor. Not that much. You can't explain that. Unless it's we dismembered something that was once alive, two friends of Ruth, Estelle Strong and Juan de Post testified that she suffered serious nosebleeds. We're talking real soon. Like she needs transfusions 'cause it's just pouring out by the court. You know what a sieve is? It's really like a sieve. It's really pouring. Jim Johnson, a resident who worked on the Neslin home during its construction, said he was injured twice during that work and left blood in the house each time. So it might be his. - Wow. - Never know. Here's another guy who says he saw Ralph after that he's supposedly dead. He said I saw him on August 10th of 1980. This John Norman, he said he remembered the date clearly 'cause he was going to a McDonald's restaurant, which everyone knows when they go to McDonald's. You keep that in your brain. To celebrate a friend's birthday was the friend six 'cause if they're not, your friend is a piss-poor fucking celebrator of birthdays. - Why are you hanging out with babies, man? - Nuggets for everyone. They said you're certain it was Mr. Neslin and he said absolutely, but on cross-examination, he acknowledged that he and his friend frequently traveled where they went to McDonald's and it might have been another time. It might not have been August 10th, even though that was a day that they were there. So Ruth testifies 'cause she has to. - Yeah. - She test if and they think that she's going to come across as a nice looking senior citizen. - No way, right? - Yeah, she bakes cookies, you've stated her B&B. So during this, she told about her marriage during direct examination, her health, her alcoholism and her version of the period leading up to the disappearance and he just took off and it's so sad and she wiped the tear and then the prosecutor came in and established that this relationship was increasingly violent. Throughout questioning, she either denied or claimed she couldn't recall certain events and incriminating conversations she had with the relatives. I don't recall that. So they attacked her versions of events using sworn testimony she made during a special inquiry in the 81-82 year there as well as a statement to investigators. They just kept finding all of her discrepancies in her statements. - And bringing it up. - At the end of her testimony, the guy said, okay, no more questions. She shouted out, I did not kill my husband. - She knows. - She's like, ah, that was so bad. - And a lack of a contraction there too. - I did not. - So it was bad. Then the prosecution, just when they think it's all over and it's gonna be, you know, who a little shaky and who knows, the prosecution hits them with a surprise witness that just comes forward. - Who's this? - Winnie Kay Stafford, the next door neighbor and best friend. - She's got a conscience? - She, well, let's find out. A man who knew both of them, whose friends with them said, quote, Winnie Kay can be as crazy as a hoot owl sometimes. She just got sucked in by Ruth and Ruth's money. So here it is, she comes up and she had said in the inquiry hearing that nothing happened. She feels terrible for Ruth, it's awful. Now she says that, no, Ruth confessed to me. - Uh oh. - I know exactly what happened. I'd been in the house from time to time when they're cutting him up and I know exactly what happened. I know everything, she told me everything. - Yeah. - And they said, well, why are you recanting your former testimony? - I do it now. - She said, I felt what had been done had been done and I was protecting Ruth. What's done is done. You can't bring him back to life by getting Ruth in trouble. She said that after being granted immunity from prosecution, from perjury, she decided to come forward. You know, the testimony here, the prosecutor called it the stereotypical surprise witness. It's like a TV show. So she said she admitted the day that the murder happened. Ruth had admitted to her that this happened. She said, Ruth began to cry as she confessed and explained to her that her brother was at the moment chopping Ralph's body up in the bathtub of their home. And then she told them Ruth's brother later burned the body. They smashed up the thing, the meek rinder, the whole deal. So in closing, the prosecutor says, the marriage was really a case of who was going to kill whom first. He said, Ralph apparently discovered his wife had placed his assets from him. He went home and demanded the money or else and he got or else. He used her own fucking statement against her. The defense said, nobody's been found. Nobody, no crying. They bought a guy with steel drums and shit and just started playing a full reggae version of it. And there's nothing that said he's met a violent end. This is ridiculous. He thinks that, you know, Ruth says that he went to Norway or committed suicide and we don't have any evidence to the contrary. They said that a lot of witnesses said Ralph came depressed sometimes and drank heavily after the accident. The forced his retirement. So who knows what happened? It is 33 hours of deliberation over four days. And this is a sequester jury too, so they've been holed up for weeks, these people here. And they come in with a verdict of guilty of first degree murder. Wow. Absolutely. Yeah, guilty. First one. First one, yep, they said, 'cause they had like five people that were like, yeah, she told me this and then this one helped. It's all the same. It's all the same. So I mean, it all matches the physical evidence perfectly. Where he was shot, where he was dismembered and the new burn barrel, everything. So the prosecutor says she was a woman who after her husband retired, just couldn't get along with them. She systematically moved money from their accounts into her own, killed him when he confronted her about it and tried to erase the evidence. Okay. Ruth during sentencing, she hobbles in with a cane, by the way. Yeah. Oh man. They said, do you have anything to say for yourself? And she said, I didn't kill my husband. I wouldn't and I couldn't. This is exactly what OJ said about Nicole, which is funny. The judge says, well, you ma'am, may fuck off life in prison. Yeah. With parole. Okay. With parole. He said he would recommend to the state board of prison terms in parole that she should serve a minimum of 20 years behind bars. Under state law, she could be released after 15 years, but he said, I'm gonna recommend you serve at least 20. Uh oh. She said that the length of the sentence doesn't matter because I won't last that long, that was her response. They also grant a defense motion to release her pending appeal. Until her appeal is done, she can stay out. It's either a $100,000 cash bond or a $150,000 property bond. So they, she does that and she's out running her fucking B&B during a murder. Well, she's convicted of murder. Well, while an appeal is going on. Let's rent, let's rent a room from that lady who was just convicted of murdering her husband. I'm sure she'll make a lovely breakfast in the morning. Yeah. And here she makes a great brunch. Here there's a type A all over this place. Wow. So members of the jury that convicted her also cried as they read the verdict. One juror said it was not a decision we wanted to come to. Sure. At all, but the evidence was too much. They said it was very difficult for all of us. So she's appealing the conviction, like we said. She said, I don't have any future. They took my future away from me right here in this stinking little county, this stinking little county. A few days later, after the conviction, a juror says he was duped. What do you mean? A juror said that he erroneously thought that she placed an advertisement to sell their home shortly after he disappeared. And it turns out she listed something for somebody else with her number on it, but it wasn't her house. But she's good at selling houses. So she said she would do it. She sold his car though, doggy. And all the other shit. But this was the thing that he said, the ad was actually for a home owned by a friend of Ruth's. And he said, you betcha I would have held out if I knew that. Why? Why is that the piece of evidence? Whether or not she sold the house doesn't matter. How about she sold the meat grinder? Her brother said they ground him up in. How about that? Sold all of his shit. Sold his fair lane on his Mustang. She said, I just feel totally miserable. There's a whole bunch of reasonable doubts in my mind until I saw that she was trying to sell that house I thought was her house. He said that his second thoughts were cited by a defense lawyer as a potential grounds removed to overturn the verdict. So yeah, they said in my mind, there's a big prosecutor said in my mind, there's a big difference between being innocent and not guilty. That's what the jurors say. But still, Ruth's lawyer says, yeah. They said, if I determine that that's the basis for a mistrial or a new trial, it's gonna come. Yeah, let's do it. Another juror disagrees with that first juror. The one juror said, quote, this guy's name, by the way, is Richard Saylor, S-A-Y-L-O-R. So no, Dick Saylor, he's on board. Dick Saylor. He said, if Ralph Nelson walked into Friday harbor the day after tomorrow, we could say we didn't make a mistake under the circumstances. I respect that juror for the fact that he didn't cave in, but I'm disappointed that he's saying now that he has second thoughts because it accomplishes nothing. He shouldn't feel badly, we did a good job. This guy's saying, even if we did fuck up, it's not on us 'cause the evidence was there. We took what we took, we saw a snapshot of something and this is what we agree. The next day in the long view daily news, there's an editorial that's fucking hilarious. It's called, "Licker was an accomplice." Had John Barley corn been on trial with her? John Barley corn, meaning booze. Ruth Nelson might have gotten off lightly as an accessory in the murder of her husband, but Ruth Nelson was on trial alone and the jury this week pronounce the Lopez Island resident guilty of first degree murder. Three factors distinguished the case. Prosecutors produced "No Body", a startling number of witnesses testified that Neslin had told them that she killed her husband, but most astonishing at all was the role of booze in these events. Why is that astonishing? - Shocking. - Oh my God, it goes on to say prosecutors also described them as a hard drinking couple. Given these drinking habits, it's no wonder that the actors in this drama had difficulty remembering what actually happened and one could only speculate on how drinking aggravated the tensions that led to his death. Ruth's conviction underscores a cautionary tale. Drinking does an excuse murder. She was still responsible for her actions, but a monster was loose in this family and Ralph Nelson was not the only victim. In January 1987, Ruth Nelson agrees to an out-of-court settlement with the San Juan County Sheriff's department to resolve the lawsuit she filed, claiming they violated her civil rights and damaged her property. - Oh, in her house? - So they gave her six grand to fix her concrete. She's still out, mind you. July 17th, 1987, she hits two bicyclists with her 1975 Dodge van while shit-faced driving. - Wow. - Leaving them in critical condition in the hospital. - Oh my God, she ran them over. - Yes, so she testified she unknowingly drank orange juice laced with vodka that some of her friends had inadvertently been unknowing an inadvertent, placed in the refrigerator without telling her. She set the drink and her poor eyesight. She's Mr. Magoo now contributed to this accident. - You can't taste the difference between regular orange juice and fucking vodka and a screwdriver? - Even Sean went, "That's fucking vodka, man." You know what I mean? He was stoned and on fucking 18 different kinds of pills. He was stuffing them in his face. - I thought that orange juice was bad. - The judge said, "You know what you're gonna do now? After you've got convicted over two years ago, you're actually gonna go to jail now." - Oh. (laughing) - Centered a jail. In his decision he wrote, "It's uncomfortable for me to contemplate Ms. Nuslin spending some substantial period of her last years in prison, or even expiring her there, only to have her conviction subsequently reversed." You're the judge, do you think it's gonna get reversed? Do you think you did everything right? So she's finally sent to jail. She's held an island county jail until transported by plane to Washington Correctional Center for Women at Gig Harbor. So yeah, February 1988, she puts up an appeal, basically saying that her brother's testimony, recounting conversations he heard between them shouldn't have counted 'cause that's hearsay. So that's what they say. But they say that a party opponent is not hearsay if it's offered against a party and is a statement of which he has manifested his adoption or belief in its truth. So it's fine. - What's not hearsay if he's there to say it. - And he heard it coming out of her mouth. It'd be one thing if Robert told me Ruth said this, that's hearsay, this is, I heard this bitch say it. It's different. - She said it to me. - Well, to someone else than I was there. - There's hearsay and there's heard this bitch say, and those are two very different things. - Yeah. - So it is denied, by the way. - Really? - With good behavior, her earliest date of release from custody would be August 2007. 'Cause she went in in '87. She could have had five years of time served already, but she doesn't. So fall of 1992, she is diagnosed with lung cancer and told she has only months to live. - Wow. - More than 100 Lopez Island residents signed petitions asking Governor Booth gardener for an early release on account of her failing health. - Mercy. - February 17th, 1993 at the Purdy Correctional Facility, she dies in prison. - How about that? No mercy. - Medical examiner determined her death was caused by a blood clot in the lung, which was a result of poor health and inactivity. By the way, the governor's board of clemency had scheduled a hearing for March 12th to consider releasing her for humanitarian reasons. - Just missed it. - Yep, she is buried in Gig Harbor, Washington here there, and he is on find a grave for Ralph. It says burial cremated comma other. - He's all over the place. - Burned and put in a flower garden. Quickly, June, 2023, there is a save our statue thing. This is a statue of Ralph that's been in town forever. - Oh, look at that. - Check it out, it's a dope statue with a plaque. And he said the smiling mug of Neslin with his-- - That's smiling, Jesus. - Yeah, that's smiling. He looks like he's frowning. - Yeah, he's a fucking sailor is what he is. - That's a real scowling, not smiling. - Oh, okay, that's a sailor's smile right there. - It sits atop a four-foot pedestal. And a local resident said, "I like it clearly." I like it because clearly, Ralph let a rough life. It kind of exudes a rough life, a little tattered, a little torn down. They said, "Sometimes people put a hat on it." - Hell yeah. - Shit like that. But then a local Felicianos, the guy's last name, they said the statue had toppled over. The wooden pedestal it was on had been eaten by termites. So this guy raised money and got a stone base for it and had it put up again. So it's, yeah, he said that, yeah, it's nice here. They also say there's a town legend here. Quote, "It's said that on moonless nights, "on the now quiet structurally unsound high bridge, "a drunken voice can be heard singing Norwegian sea shanties "down to the ancient river spirits who laugh "and seem to understand the cosmic joke." - Amazing. - This was Anne Ruhl's book is called "No Regrets "and Other True Crime Cases." It's got a bunch of different stories in it. It was also an A&E city confidential. Remember those city confidential? On Lopez Island, foul play on the friendly aisle. And that everybody is Lopez Island, Washington. And what are the fucking weirdest things we've ever done, right? Is that crazy or is it just me? - I love the local legend lore of a sea that he's being sung to the-- - Norwegian sea shanties. - Yeah, he's sung amongst the, where the fucking fallen bridge was at. - Drunkenly singing down. Unfucking believe me. So there you go. If you like the show, tell the world about it. Get on, whatever app you're listening on, doesn't matter, give us five stars. It helps tremendously. I'm telling you, I don't know why, but it drives you up the charts. So do that. Follow on social media. We are @smalltownmurder on Instagram, smalltownpot on Facebook @murdersmall on Twitter. Definitely also head over to shutup and give me murder.com. Get your tickets live shows everybody. Let's go May the 1st, I'm sorry, May 31st. - May 31st. - We're way past the first. May 31st, Durham, North Carolina at the Carolina Theater. Triangle area, get your tickets, we're almost sold out. So get your last minute tickets, Nashville sold out the next night. Also, Minneapolis, you'll be our biggest show ever. Sell that bad boy, come on, let's do it. Also Kansas City, we added more tickets. We added a whole-- - Right. - We opened up another tier for you guys so-- - Hold the lever, yeah. - We said fuck it, let's hit hire some people and bring them in, so get them in there. New York, Boston, Kansas City, like we said Oklahoma City, get your goddamn tickets right now. We're gonna have so much fun. Shut up and give me murder.com. Definitely listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports, you don't have to like sports. You have to like funny shows with us making fun of someone. If you like that, you'll love it. And you should also listen to your stupid opinions, which we talk about people's dumb reviews and everything you can imagine. And it's the funniest hour there is. People are such assholes. So check that out as well. Patreon.com/crime in sports, all of your bonus material, tons of shit, new stuff every other week. You get hundreds of back episodes right away. Anybody $5 a month or above, come on. Patreon.com/crime in sports. This week what you get, you're gonna get one crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all. For crime in sports, we're gonna talk about the OJ trial. What happened there? How do you have DNA and not a conviction? When they convicted this lady on Type A blood, pure incompetence is how you fuck it up. - They got two bodies, they had none. - Two of the worst lawyers I've ever seen, and a bunch of the worst cops I've ever seen is how that happens, and we'll explain it all. And then for small town murder, inside Ed Gaines House, what's in there? What's in Ed Gaines House? - How much? - What's a day in the life of Ed Gaines in that house? It's fucking weird, we'll talk all about that. Add more, patreon.com/crime in sports, and you get a shout out at the show, which is right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with the list of the most wonderful goddamn people who've ever existed on this shitty goddamn blue marble called Earth. - This week's executive producer is Whitney Green. Thank you so much, Whitney, for everything. - Everything you do for us, you are an angel. - You are wonderful. - Oh, they're produced this week are Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Heath Malgar, Lori Simmons, Janice Hill, Scarlett Horbius III in a Joey Peppetone rug. - Oh, three. - Steph Feller, Jessica Anderson, Krista Gonzalez, John Heller, Christiana Robbins, Thomas Lombard, Tariq Ortadek, Amy Hartzfield, Opie with no last name, Jessica with no last name, Travis Moser, Tina Ribeiro, Dakota Bracken, Will Roberson, LG, Suzanne Antonelli, Richard McClendon, Amy with no last name, Angel H. Katie Potts, Joanne, Jonathan, not Joanne, Jonathan Stratton, Zachary Hudson, Nicholas Deckert, Gail Berge, Hady's daughter, Kevin Fouts, Priya Ramnath, I think, Alan Corey, Megan Tuttle, Eden Metz, Tammy, no, that's just Tam High. Tam, he, I think it's Tam High. I think it's an-- - Tam High. - Tam, last name High. - Oh, okay. - Maybe he? - Okay. - How do they say H.I, is it High? Or is it like raising Arizona? Is it Tam H.I. - Hi. - H.I. I think it might be he, but I like High, I like High better. - I think it's High. - Yeah, High. - That's how I say it. - Jackie Trestain, Ken Todd, Natalie Kocchagno, Kocchagno, it's Kocchagno, right? - Kocchagno. - Kocchagno? - Kocchagno? - Kocchagno. - C-O-C-O, no, C-O-C-C. A-G-N-L, that's Italian Kocchagno, right? - Or, yeah, or Kocchagno might be. - Hey, listen, good for you, Natalie, thank you so much. Stone Toad, Samantha Barnes, Whooper, Whooper God. Icky would know last name, Don would know last name, Gloria Haley, what is it? Say again. - Whoards, obviously, for Icky. - Right, it was for sure. It has to be. It might just be Ick. Schill 34, Wendy Middleton, Kerry Cormack, Alicia Conizo, Tom Kowalski, Chris would know last name, Kimberly Pratt, Carter Leveronica Barth, Samantha Smith, Melissa Jurbonic, Bobby Goldsmith, Young would know last name, Sternie would know last name, Haley would know last name, Amanda Johnson, Meghan would know last name, Seb Casablanca's, Madison Gordy, Flower Moon Bagels, Wayne McKinley, Abby Testa, Travis Payne, Rebecca Patterson, Abby Braun, Lori Espe, Denise Freeze, Samson Nelson, Sarah Malone. Matt Barnes, Kimberly would know last name, Casey James, Patruccio Atadori, Ashley Hancock, Cindy Wolfe, Jenny, Jeannie Hammers. Yes, she does. Kayla Davenroy, Rat Baby, Dana Dahl, Courtney Ward, Susan Brown, Zoe Ford, William Chandler, James Lancaster, Leanna would know last name, Rose Braemer, Andrew Hadding, Radio Andrew Hadding from the radio, I don't know, Troy Minor, John Murphy, Michael Newding, Susan would know last name, Brittany Jones, Jasmine Caldwell, Raphael Mosi, Jesse Koschall, Tanya McPherson, Rick Schmitz, Rebecca, just one, not two. No, it is two, it's not just one. - Oh, yeah, yeah, that's what it is. - Rebecca Baggett, Badgett, Trey Adler, Alder, Trey Adler, Thomas would know last name, Michelle Nazareno, Eric Whiterholt, Kelly Dooned, Heather Momma Miller, JB, Charlie Coker, Coacher, Sam would know last name, Estelle would know last name, Zachary Thompson, Kenny would know last name, Margaret McCormick, Trish Tawne, Jay, the letter Jay, also Jen Scott Richardson, Adam would know last name, Brittany Cox, Flootie Flakes, Levi Stiles, Zack Czak, Chalky, Faisal Isby, Isby, Esby, Faisal Isby, Carrie would know last name, oh, maybe not, all right. J.L. Pfeiff. - You had a little fucking infinity there. - Sure did, Ethan M. Shoff, Lisa Milbrot, Michelle Curtain, Jen, no, that's Jed Frederick, Cathy, Kathleen Jefferson, Martha Mayer, Jason Sabine Sabini, Aaron Howard Kai would know last name, John Weaver, John Erickson, Jill Reany, Jolene Black, Rock Trotter, Gene Menzinger, Ricky would know last name, Daniel DeManuel, and Jenny Pithicus, and Nicole Garcia loves us, James, in case you didn't. - Oh, we love you back. - She would like us to know that. Cody R. U. L. Spary, Lucas Schultz, Lee Rutledge, Ashley would know last name, J.B. would know last name, Jason Malassie, Desiree Kern, Mike Elliott, Christopher Kilburn, Jackie would know last name, Samantha Binkley, Aaron Hoskins, Freckle Rock, Matthew Golden, Riley Moran, Ryan would know last name, Hope Eggers, Noah, Noah would know last name, Dana Bangle's sister, Gavin Long. I mean, we all know that. - I like to know, well, yeah, we all gotta know. - Gotta know who's the other way to, obviously, no other way. - Gavin Long, Matthew, cutting in all of our patrons, you're amazing. Thank you, everybody, so much. You wonderful, magnificent, beautiful, fantastic bastions. We fucking love you. You wanna follow us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com, drop down menu, hit that shit up, follow us, hang out with us, keep coming back, and we'll be back. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. - Bye. (upbeat music) - If you like small town murder, you can listen early and add free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com/survey. - Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels. - She was a romance mystery writer who happens to be married to a chef, but this story didn't end with a happily ever after. - When I stepped into the kitchen, I could see that Chef Brophy was on the ground and I heard somebody say, call 911. - As writers, we'd written our share of murder mysteries. So when suspicion turned to Dan's wife, Nancy, we weren't that surprised. - The first person they look at would be the spouse. - We understand that's usually the way they do it. - But we began to wonder, had Nancy gotten so wrapped up in her own novels. - There are murders in all of the books. - That she was playing them out in real life. - You can listen to happily never after Dan and Nancy early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. You
