[MUSIC PLAYING] We're back on Canuck Central, Dan Richo, Satyarsha. Canuck Central is for enzyme-specific Vancouver's premier Chrysler, Dodd, Ram, and Jeep Superstore on 2nd Avenue between Canby and Maine, or at enzyme-specific Chrysler.ca before we get to more on your Vancouver Canucks. Oh, we will do that with our next guest. It is Kevin Woodley. He is joining us every Wednesday here on Canuck Central, and he is a presentation of White Rock Hyundai. What's happening, Woodley? I'm just driving around in my brand-new IONIQ 5. I'm channeling my inner Zach Hyman like his wide. So I'm feeling very-- I'm feeling like a 50-goal scorer here, reach, not the traditional goalie who just gives up 50 goals. How quickly do the golf clubs get in the trunk once the season is done? Well, I mean, once the Canucks season is done, pretty quick. Once the bike season is done, it's more matter what happens with the Canucks. So let's just say that the clubs were out. They were put to use that the Canucks alumni golf tournament just the other day, north to you, great day, great people. Lots of great causes supported. And yeah, it does not take me long to transfer the golf season, my friend. Yeah, nor for any of us, really. All right. So the Canucks off season, it's now in full swing. You're a week away from a little bit more than a week away now from the season coming to a close. And it seems like they're starting to get their ducks in order. They're talking to Tyler Myers. They're trying to figure out where the rest of their free agents are going to be money-wise, and also exploring what options are out there for them to upgrade the team. From where we sit, and the way Patrick Aldin spoke last week as well, the most obvious thing that they're looking to do is find a top six winger. And I guess, more importantly, find somebody to play with Elias Patterson. Yeah, I mean, it would seem to make sense. I would think that there might be attempts to maybe upgrade the speed on this group. We heard Rick talk about in that same season and being interviewed with us in the media about sort of, how can you create more rush offense? I do think it's less about systems and more about having the speed to take a transition out of your own end or out of the neutral zone and turn it into rush offense. And I think that is something that is generally, generally, genuinely lacking on this team. So if you can do both, that's great. And let's be honest though, like, they massively rebuilt and upgraded the back end in one summer last year. But with that, everything was short-term, right? Like you have three of your top six defensemen as UFA and another one on your top errors in RFA. Like there's work to be done there, whether it's bringing guys back or looking for replacements. So to me, as much as the upgrade in the top six and a winger for Pedersen is the obvious improvement you need to make, you can't afford to lose anything on the back end from what you had last season. And given the contract status of so many, I would think that is also a priority. - Yeah, and how they're determining the packing order on all this I think is really interesting. And to seeing what gets done, I think it's clear they wanna get the big stuff done first if they can, but it's a lot of big pieces, right? Like, yeah, Perona, you gotta figure out, trying to find a winger for Pedersen like Dan mentioned, not to mention Zadora, that would be a big number. And the thing that we're all kind of wondering too is, do we see them make a big deal? Like we heard the nature stuff out there, if they may be looking to make that sort of a move. Like, I wouldn't be surprised the first move they make is acquiring somebody via trade even. - No, and that's, I mean, at the end of the day, well, I mean, actually sat, you're an insider. So you know these things. I think the rest of us are in the dark and more curious because this is a group that doesn't rest on its laurels, that isn't afraid to be bold in these moves. And so I think it brings a certain amount of buzz with the uncertainty, right? Because, you know, for lack of a better term, this is not a group management wise that you expect to quote unquote run out of time, right? Like you expect them to be progressive and aggressive and get their business done in an orderly fashion as opposed to, I mean, sure, there are elements. Like, do you wait until August to get a Pew suit or maybe less than some expected he would go for earlier? Like those things happen as well. But for the most part, this is a management team that has gotten out ahead of things, which makes it, I think, for the people that follow this team, like that should be exciting, right? And so figuring out how they're gonna do all this makes for great chat, makes for great chatter. But at the end of the day, you know, we don't know, and there's a certain amount of fascination to see how it all pans out and how they go about it. And I think there's also a trust given the recent track record. It has been short-term, but in that recent track record of making moves that far more often than not pan out for this team, I think there's a mixture of excitement, but also with it, more trust than trepidation might have been the way things would have proceeded in the past if we were heading into an off-season like this with a previous management group. - So we've talked a lot about Mike Yo, who parted ways with the club yesterday. And, you know, he had the task of working with the PK this year. And hey, look, the Canucks PK, I think they finished 17th during the season, but the way they performed in the playoffs left you with a thought of, hey, they finally fixed the PK in Vancouver, which was one of the longstanding problems with this team in prior years. And now you're looking to fix that yet again from a coaching perspective. What's your thought or do you have a thought on Mike Yo parting the club? - Well, I mean, two, I guess, one would be right. Like 17th may not seem like a huge upgrade, but when you were flirting with one of the worst penalties kills, not just in the NHL, but in the history of the NHL through large portions of the previous season, it was a major improvement. And you're right, it was a strength of them in the playoffs, especially against that potent Oilers power play. So, you know, your thought is, I hope they have another plan. And again, with this group, you expect they do, but you hope that it's one that's based on, again, upgrading as opposed to saving money. Like, you know, there seems to be some thought around the move of Colatin as much as everybody loves the Manny Mahultra story. And I think it's a good one. I think we know Manny as a coach and as a person will do a good job down there. There's also, you know, when you talk to people, you know, around that and around hockey circles and around sort of that assistant coaching realm and what it costs typically, like, there's an element to that move that seems to be about cost savings. And it feels, your worry is, we might have some of that with Mike Yo. I mean, my understanding is, you know, yes, there was an offer, but it was only one year. And I don't know that it was, you know, much of a raise. So if you're making that move, you would hope, much like all the player moves, we trust all the moves will be made with an eye towards upgrading the team. You hope the same can be said of the coaching staff. There are sometimes decisions around hockey operations and around sort of outside of the actual spending on salary that, you know, I think when you talk to people around it, can be made with an eye towards finances as opposed to ultimately what's best for the team. So let's see what comes out of it, too early to judge. What is, does this ultimately end up being a cost-cutting move? And if it is, we'll have to wait to see the next year whether it costs them on the ice in terms of the performance of the penalty killing. And here in the day, how that penalty kill performance is going to also be determined by what you spend and how you go about either replacing or re-signing so much of the defense as we talked about at the start of this conversation. - Yeah, and I mean, you know, you'd hope that a year where you made the playoffs, went a couple of rounds deep and it was a successful year, you know, financially and on the ice and off the ice that those types of things don't happen and we'll see. And hopefully we see them up the investments on those sort of things. And honestly, like when you look at the things that they have done at the Abbotsford level, like there's hope to believe that they are capable of doing so and continuing to do so. So let's hope that actually does continue. - And I've always given them credit on the Abbotsford front. I think that's made a huge difference for this franchise and I recognize that there is a significant investment. But again, like we see, you know, some of them are slow. Like, you know, as skilled as this group is, I'd like to see the ice better at Roger's Arena, right? And I know there's a pretty big ticket attached to that. How long before we see that move? So these are, I think fair questions to ask. At the end of the day, there's clearly a commitment when it comes to spending on salaries and finally a trust and a management group that will spend it the right way. There are so many positives here, but there is an eyebrow raised when some of these other moves get made. And it's not to say it's purely financial set, but it certainly lurks in the background as a fair question until we see how it all sorts out. - No, I think that is fair. As far as the connection their goal tenders go, it's really fascinating now to watch how Arthur Shilov's has really, you know, emerged as not only an option to be the backup next season, but you know, fans are also looking at him potentially being the guy that succeeds at your Demko between the pipes. And in terms of next season, do you, I mean, obviously they're going to bring in a veteran goalie, but what level of a veteran goalie do you think they should be bringing in to camp next year to, you know, give Shilov's a bit of a push to be the backup here in Vancouver? - Well, so first off, like, let's slow the role on the replace Thatcher Demko. - Yes. - Like if that's what fans are talking about, like, Arthur's had a really good playoffs. There were some great saves in there. There's clearly still some learning curves. Thatcher Demko, in my mind, is a top five goalie in the National Hockey League. So that's, there's a big jump there. First thing you have to do is get comfortable playing an entire season in the NHL, then increased minutes, increased role, tougher competition, like there's steps to be taken in. Not saying he can't take them, but for anybody that expects us to be a snap of the fingers and use a number one goal tender in the NHL, that's usually not a linear progression for goal tenders. I think what's interesting about Shilov's rise in the playoffs is, in terms of what it does moving forward, is like, there's a question here. I've always said, your perfect depth chart is workhorse number one, a backup that can give you a great start every two weeks, but can also give you two straight, great weeks. And those are two very different things. And that will be a challenge for our Terz as well, if he is here as the backup, is not playing regularly. And still having to, 'cause we've seen him in the past, where the first start isn't necessarily great, but as he gets comfortable and confident, he builds momentum and performances off of that. Well, you're not gonna get to build on one start to the next, as long as Thatcher Demko is healthy, if you're up here as a backup. So that's a challenge. Having him in the minors, like that was always your perfect depth chart, having that sort of experience veteran in the backup role, but a guy in the minors who might have more upside than him, if you need somebody for two months. And that's what Shilov's gave you in the playoffs. The fact he's waiver exempt means, technically he could give it to you again. But I think when you see how well he played, the assumption is, and I think it's a fair one, that he's ready for more and ready for this level. And that leaves you needing a guy below him in the minor leagues, that has enough NHL experience to come in, whether it's for an injury or otherwise, and not so much push in preseason, but be confident that he can give you NHL minutes, whether it's, if Demko gets hurt and Shilov's is starting, but you don't want to overdo him workload wise, or even, let's be honest, like we've seen teams go four or five deep in seasons in the past couple of years, somebody who can come up and play two weeks. So it's a little tougher to find a guy that is willing to be penciled in as the three, but has enough NHL experience, that you can trust him for a couple of weeks at the highest level. That's a bit of a tougher ask, then finding a guy to come in here and be the backup, in, you know, with the thought he might get a couple of weeks, 'cause, you know, like guys are realistic about their careers too. Like, nobody's, you know, there was a point where goalies like Yaroslav Halak, without really knowing how good Thatcher Demko was, would look at this situation and be like, yeah, okay, I want to go there, I'll get a chance to play. Thinking they might even be able to outplay a Thatcher Demko. Like, that's gone, and if you know you're coming in and likely to be the three, that's an even tougher thing to sort of find guys willing to do that, to be that far down the depth chart, that you can also trust to play a notch up in the National Hockey League. It's not an easy task. It might be easier to find a backup who gets surpassed in the playoffs sort of thing, than it is to find a guy who's willing to come in as a three, but you also trust to be a two. - Kevin Woodley, our guest. So I want to switch focus to the Stanley Cup playoffs. And first, I want to ask you about the Robertson Hatrick Gold the other night. I mean, it is just the wildest situation playing out. He finds the smallest amount of space that banks it in off of Skinner. And I found it super interesting after the game that he said the goalie coach there in Dallas is somebody who told him to look for that kind of a play. To have it play out in a game action is another story, to have the time and space to afford it to you to do it is another thing. But what did you make of the Robertson goal and is Skinner in a bad spot there? - Yeah, I know I didn't love it. And listen, what makes it a tough spot for Skinner and listening to his comments, he's approaching it more like a breakaway, like an in-type breakaway, rather than a sharp angle chance. He's talking about out waiting Robertson and making him make the first move and all these things. So to me, when I hear that I'm thinking, like he saw that as a breakaway, more of a breakaway more of a one-on-one than he did a dead angle. I should integrate into my post chance. And yet ultimately he pushes into his post and he doesn't hit his spot. And the hole that he created and the one that Jeff Ries the goalie coach in Dallas would be showing these shooters throughout the season. If you see this, this is how you can exploit it is by using what we call a skate on post reverse VH technique. And so ideally, when you go into a sharp angle technique or into a reverse VH, you wanna hit that post with your skate inside and the bottom of your pad, which we call a toe box, up against the post. And there are laces that connect the bottom of your pad to the bottom of your skate. We tie it in basically skate lace. Sometimes some guys use bungee and various degrees of sort of Velcro bungee combinations. But the idea is there's a gap there. And that gap allows your skate to get to the ice. And like for Thatcher Dempco, the gap is scientific. Like we have it at anglemeg.com. I can't remember it off the top of my head. I was told there would be no math, but it's literally like 2/3 of the diameter of a post. So that he knows exactly, and you just tie knots into the lace to create this little area of slack. And so when you go into the post, that slack should be what's against the post. And so your pad is flush, your skate's inside, and that gap doesn't exist. But because Skinner hits the post with his skate, it inherently creates a gap between the bottom of his skate and the bottom of his pad. Now if Stuart Skinner did that all the time, I would say that was in the pre-scout specific to him and they exploited a habit. But I've watched Stuart Skinner's entire season. He doesn't, like to me, that's a miss as opposed to something he does all the time. He will at times go skate on post, but he also seems to prefer going toe-box on post like a Dempco does, like most guys do. And so when he misses, it's skate on post. And that to me was a miss, and that creates a gap that's exploitable. And there are different elements of technique that can avoid and prevent that. It's a tough time to have a miss. You know, I had goalie coaches reach out that were like, my 15-year-olds don't miss that. You know, like they don't miss that. They work on it so much that they don't miss it. And my response is your 15-year-olds don't stare down Jason Robertson in a one on one video. (laughing) Right, so like I'm trying not to be hyper critical. And yet it's hard to miss the fact that, like this should almost be automatic, right? Like it's not a perfect game. You never perform perfectly. You never execute perfectly. But you should be able to hit that spot. And most guys can more consistently. And you can look at how he goes into his post. He's steep, that back leg doesn't flatten out before he goes in, which gives him less margin for air. It's why it's harder for him to hit the toe box than it is for say, at Thatcher-Demko. And then once he gets in there, man, the replay from behind the net, you can see that back leg should be dry, it should be dug into the ice, and it should be pushing his short side coverage. And because he's steep, because he's not down flat around the goal line, he doesn't have that leverage. The skate disengages with the ice. He doesn't have a good push. And that's what sort of creates him being off balance and sort of almost falling backwards as he feels it hit off his butt. Like they were just a bunch of technical aspects that he didn't execute on. And it cost him a huge goal at a really bad time. And I do understand that the play, the attack, like there's a dynamic nature to this. And it's the best in the world coming at you. But I think if you have a stronger technical foundation, you hit that spot more often and you don't put yourself in a situation where you are flailing as awkwardly as he ultimately ended up doing. And, you know, I'm assuming it's skitter tonight. They're probably dropping the puck here in 20 minutes. I've heard no indication otherwise, but there was another play that ended up on Twitter quite a bit. You guys have seen the Darnel nurse butt block. - Yeah. - Oh, yeah. - Watch that, go back. - Yes. - Come back and watch that play where the shooter hit start or nurse in the butt and the block. That puck goes to Stuart Skinner's left. He's on his knees in the butterfly. That should be a simple, raise the right knee, grab the right edge and push across in a butterfly block. Not only does he get up to his feet on a puck that's just a couple feet away from him, or like I don't understand why you're trying to recover to your skates in that spot. It really doesn't make any sense, but he actually gets up with his left leg, which is, I mean, we're talking, you know, we're talking 10, 11 year old stuff here, proper leg recovery. - Yeah. - First thing you learn is a butterfly goaltender. And that one there had me a little more nervous about where his head was at in this game, because these should be technical executions that are automatic, and they are not for him right now. And that makes me wonder a little bit whether we seek out. I love Stuart Skinner. I think he's perfectly capable of backstopping this team to great things, especially how well they defend, but there were signs of that game of things that should be easy, simple, every time executions that he wasn't delivering on that would make me a little bit hesitant to vase the Edmonton Oilers right now. - Yeah, that's fascinating. 'Cause yeah, you're right. I mean, they went to Pickard before, and they kind of reset him. He was a bit better. We'll see if they actually do the same thing here. As far as the other series, the Panthers and the New York Rangers, and Brabrowski has been terrific too, like the past year, great last year in the playoffs, but it's just Durkin had a real tough start to the year. He had his struggles and we talked about how he had to get a reset and find his game again. And boy, has he found his game. Is he the best goalie in the playoffs right now? - Yeah, I mean, like Bob doesn't have the numbers 'cause they're, like they kind of remind me a little bit of Vancouver, in that they don't give up a ton of shots, but they will give up some quality. And so it can be tough to post good numbers behind a team like that. Like that's why I grain of salt archer. She lost numbers a little bit in the playoffs. Like they were only giving up, you know, 22, 23, but they were still like seven, eight, nine high dangers in there, right? So, you know, you're not going to pad your stats on nights like that. And I think that might be what we're seeing a little bit with Bob's numbers. He still had some really great moments in these playoffs. But, you know, I guess on a whole, it's hard to argue that he or she's jerking isn't the best guy left. He does look a lot more like the guy that we saw, you know, in the heart trophy consideration and winning his first investment trophy a couple of years ago. And what will be interesting to see moving forward, guys, is does he maintain this as this series goes five now and six and maybe even to seven? Because one of the things that Igor struggles with when he plays a lot is he gets lower and wider in his stance. He's such an exceptional skater. He beats so many plays on his ice. He moves so well from his knees. But on initial shots, on open releases, when he's fatigued, he tends to widen out his stance. And he's not the biggest goaltender. So inevitably, when anybody widens up their stance, they lose a little mobility. They're lower to the ice. They're not able to sort of hold edges and patience as well with their upper body and sort of maintaining reactive hands. The wider you get, the more, the easier it is, the closer you are to the ice, the easier it's just sort of snapped down to it. And that's the tendency. And it's something that, you know, that's one of the reasons he had the finish to the season. He did is they gave him a break. They gave him a reset. And he came back and looked more. Like, I know Steve Valaket with MSG Network is actually, they have the ability to sort of measure the width of his stance. And you can see him widen out when he fatigues and the numbers normally get worse. And so we saw that a little bit as some of the other series went on. And it'll be fascinating to see whether he can maintain what he's doing right now, whether the Rangers find ways, obviously on off days, they're not skating anymore. But just to make sure you keep him rested, because that tends to keep him narrower in his stance and more reactive up high. All elements that have been crucial to his run, but have slipped at times both during the regular season the past two and even for brief stretches in these playoffs. - I wish we had more time, Woodley. We'll let you get back into your Hyundai and with the rest of your night. Thanks for this. - Thanks, Rach. We'll throw some golf clubs in the back of this Hyundai and go golfing through my friend. - Sounds good to me. There is Kevin Woodley on Sports at 650 every Wednesday with us here on Kedok Central. And he's brought to you by White Rock Hyundai. Visit the showroom on King George in White Rock or whiterockhunday.com. And the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox just loving the technical goalie breakdown there with Stuart Skinner and the mistakes he was making on some of the goals that Dallas scored the other night. - Yeah, Mike and Willoughby and Callum both texting and saying, "Holy technical, Woodley's the best." And the goal of the info is so good. More of this, please. He knows his stuff, loved his goalies to talk, so informative. So yeah, Callum and Mike are very, very happy. - Very, very happy with Kevin Woodley. And I mean, his insight is second to none. - You know, when I hear Woodley talking about Skinner and going in the in-depth goalie analysis of all the things he's not doing well right now. - I know what you're thinking. - What a missed opportunity for the Canucks. Like, I don't want to go back into that trap, but it's just like, how do you not think of that when you're watching Stuart Skinner right now? Even in game six and seven, Skinner did not look good. He did not look at all comfortable. It was there for the Canucks. They just, they couldn't seize the moment. - No, they couldn't. And that's part of the frustration. - Yeah, and it's like a really bittersweet year. Because again, like, there's no way you can look at this Canucks season and reasonably call it a failure. Right? Like, even if you have super high, I mean, they went from not making the playoffs in forever to making a real playoffs, winning around, going to game seven, you know? Like, and they had the third best regular season of franchise history. Like, it was a successful season. But you can still be disappointed about what happened in game six and seven. - Yeah. - And it is a missed opportunity. You know, and you know what? Like, the thing is, as the next few years go on here, we don't know where this core is going and where this team is going. But hopefully it's going somewhere very positive and it goes into some deep runs. And sometimes those losses along the way, along the way, and those missed opportunities and those lessons are the ones that propel you over the top. And that's kind of what I'm hoping for, right? Like, your hope that it's not a missed opportunity and this was your chance that it's, this was the lesson you needed to seize your next opportunity. - It's a great way of looking at it, Sat. I appreciate that. 'Cause I was getting real frustrated. - It is frustrating. - And I probably will be again when we see Stuart Skinner up against the Dallas Stars yet again tonight. Dan Reicho, Satyar Shah, it is Canucks Central. coming up, overrated, underrated on Sports at 650.
