In this episode, I sit down with Cassie Black (@safe.slut), a sex educator, herpes advocate, and adult entertainer. We dive deep into the world of herpes, discussing whether your sex life is over after a diagnosis or if you can still be a safe and empowered slut. Cassie shares her personal story of discovering she had herpes, the stigma surrounding it, and the common misbeliefs and myths that need busting. We also tackle the important topic of disclosure, exploring if and when you should always disclose and the best ways to do so. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand herpes better and break free from the stigma.
In Bed With Alexa
Herpes: Myths, Stigma, and Safe Sluthood (ft. Cassie Black)
In this episode, sexologist Alexa Andre (@sexwithalexa) is joined by Cassie Black (@safe.slut), a sex educator, herpes advocate, and adult entertainer. We dive deep into the world of herpes, discussing whether your sex life is over after a diagnosis or if you can still be a safe and empowered slut. Cassie shares her personal story of discovering she had herpes, the stigma surrounding it, and the common misbeliefs and myths that need busting. We also tackle the important topic of disclosure, exploring if and when you should always disclose and the best ways to do so. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand herpes better and break free from the stigma.
- Duration:
- 50m
- Broadcast on:
- 05 Jun 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
(upbeat music) - Cassie, are you ready to get in bed with me? - I am ready. - I'm so excited, thank you so much for coming. - Thanks for having me. - Everyone, I'm Cassie Black, the safe slut, HSB advocate and hottest fuck. - Thank you. (laughing) - Okay, so what is a safe slut? - So a safe slut is someone who will initially, safe slut started out as just like a herpes positive person of being like, okay, they still wanna be slutty, but now they have to be safe about it. So that's like the original safe slut definition. - What has been transported to. - But it's turned into basically someone who is sex positive, confident, owns their shit and does whatever they wanna do. - Okay, I love it. So I know the story, but they don't know the story. How, I guess it doesn't matter how you got it, but when you found out you were HSB positive, how did you react, what happened? - So obviously I thought my life was over. I think I stayed in bed for like three days. I didn't know anyone else who had it. So I was-- - 'Cause no one talks about it. - No one talks about it. So I was like, most people have it. Majority people have it. So yeah, I was at urgent care when I got diagnosed and I went home and I just like, yeah, cried in bed for days. - Okay, and how did you go from there to here? - A main thing was talking to other people who had it. So-- - Openly had it. - Openly had it, yeah, or not openly. So I end up telling, I'm such an open book and I like can't keep a secret about myself. So I told like all of my friends, all of my family and just like anyone who would listen to me. And I got so many me twos, like so many. And I was like, okay. And then a lot of those people were in like long-term relationships or were like being a ho. And I was like, oh, I can still do that. Like, okay. - Either one, yeah. - Yeah. And another thing was just becoming really educated about herpes. I realized I knew nothing about, like I claimed to be so sex positive and was like already like slutty before. But like I didn't really, I guess know like what sex positive even was. So like becoming more educated on herpes and STIs and just all of like sexuality in general. I just felt so much better because I was like, wow, it's really not that serious. - Okay, so let's build some stats around what is 60% of population have HSV1. - It's around like 80%. - I think 80's both of them. - It's like over two thirds. - Oh wait, no, two thirds is what? 60. - Seven. - 67. - Yeah. - Not a math major. - Girl math. - So yeah, it's like over two thirds have cold sores and then it's like in the US, it's over one and six have genital herpes. - Right, so cold sores are herpes. If you've ever had like what a culture on your lip, that's HSV. I don't want to go into the ties with like, most people have herpes, but when you get a full panel, when you get tested, the full panel does not usually include herpes unless you're having a breakout. - Mm-hmm, and it's usually asymptomatic. - It's usually 'cause you have it and you have never had an outbreak, you don't know that you can give it to someone else. But that's usually how people get genital herpes is if you have oral herpes and you go down on someone and then you just give them genital herpes. - And yeah, I think it's as of like 2017, the majority of genital herpes cases, new cases are HSV-1. - Right, which is-- - Which is usually-- - Most common. - Most common, cold sores. - Right. - So the shame around it is ridiculous because it's usually someone that had it a cold sore, which is completely normal and no one cares about it and you went down on someone 'cause you're a good partner, probably. - Yeah. - And you transmitted it generally and then that's it. Like if you were one of the people that had an outbreak, so you can have the virus, never had an outbreak or you can get outbreaks once in your life or recurrently. So only if you have an outbreak, you're like, what the fuck is this? And then you go and get tested, it's like, oh it's herpes and then you think the world is falling apart. - Exactly, and also like in terms of getting an outbreak, what you saw in a textbook where it's like, your genitals are like ridden with sores, that's like everywhere and it's like last forever, it doesn't go away, like it's just not true. Like there's so many people who actually are symptomatic but don't know that it's herpes 'cause sometimes it can look like a paper cut or just like one small sore. Like when I first got it, I think I had like three tiny sores and like if I didn't like look, I wouldn't have known. - Yeah, it's not like your, blah blah, your penis are gonna fall off. Like it could be very painful, but it doesn't have to be or it's not for everyone. - Yeah. - So how do you manage outbreaks? - So for me, I don't really get outbreaks anymore which is pretty nice, yeah. So a big thing is like when you first get herpes, you might have more frequent outbreaks and then as time goes on, you get used to it's the lesson. So I'm like, I'm like four years in so I don't really get outbreaks anymore. But when I first got it, I had like back-to-back outbreaks which is like very normal. Mine were never too, too painful. Like sometimes like depending on location, like if I was like peeing with her 'cause it like hits it or like if you walk and like it like rubs. - Perfection. - Yeah, that can be really bad. But in terms of healing outbreaks and just dealing with them, pull out all the self care. Usually for me and for most people, you'll get an outbreak when you're really stressed out or you're just like overdoing it. So it's a really, it's actually a nice reminder when you do get an outbreak to like calm the fuck down, like relax. So I'll like cancel plans, which love to do. So love having a good excuse. And I'll use my goddess oil, which I make and sell. - Man, I was waiting for that. - Yeah, I gotta do a little promo. - Yeah, well, yeah, so that like suits the area. I just put it directly on your lower- - Yes, you put that right on, yeah. So it's a topical oil that I actually made the oil before I even got herpes, which was really funny. I just made like a healing, I'm an estician and herbalist. So I like make all these. - She's kind of a witch, okay? - It's a little herpes witch. So I made this just like healing skin oil 'cause I have like every skin problems, like eczema all of it. And so it really helped. And then as I was doing research for herbs that can help with herpes, all of the herbs I used in this oil helps with herpes. So I was like, oh my God. So it worked really well for me. So obviously I wanted to help other people with it. So it's on my website, safe slut dot shop. - Mm, okay. And also, but so when you get your first outbreak because you have so much shame and you think everything's going to end and you're never gonna have sex again, no one's ever gonna love you again, you shouldn't, but that's how it goes. - Yeah, that's how most people feel. - Then you're so stressed that maybe that also contributes to the back to back outbreaks. - The new virus, you like hate everything and can sex also trigger it or it's mostly like stress related for people. - Everyone's different for me. It's really just stress, but a lot of people, it's not sex that triggers it, it's the friction. - Right. - So it's like use more lube, which in general, just use more lube anyways. - You should say that anyway. - Yeah, that should always be a thing. So that's really helpful. And yeah, there's like some people who are triggered by like, if you eat a ton of food with arginine, that can potentially be a trigger or like being in the cold or being in a really hot plate. Like it's just like-- - It depends. - It depends, everyone's gonna be different. - You have to find your own triggers. - Yes, that's why I always recommend people doing like an outbreak diary at the beginning and just writing like your mood, what you've been doing, what you're eating, like just to kind of see if you can narrow it down. - Okay, but like we are in the space, we have the information, but what can we say to people that are getting their first outbreak? They're in a marangos relationship or they're like, what the fuck happened? Like, why didn't they tell me? How can they like navigate this? What are some resources besides like following? - Following me on every single platform. - Yes. What is something that can comfort people? Like this is so fucking normal and it'll be fine. - Honestly, like I'm so grateful for social media because of this, like whether it's following other herpes advocates or like following herpes advocates and seeing other people who are commenting and you'll like, like I know, like I have friends from Instagram who like have herpes and then they either like messaged me or messaged like other people in the comments and became friends. So like people want to connect about this because everyone feels the same way. I also do support calls and group support calls. So the group ones are great because it's like we have people from like all over and it's really nice that like just having this little community. So then talking to other people who have it is gonna be the biggest comfort 'cause then it really shows like, okay, I'm gonna be fine. Like I'm seeing people still be a slut and like they're fine. - Okay, so you can be a slut if you have herpes. - You can totally slip be a slut. - I've gotten sluttier since getting herpes. That's what's very possible. - Okay, so how, what are some things? How is it different for being your regular HSB negative slut or status unknown slut? - Yeah, well I feel like for me it's more, it wasn't, it's not like about the herpes status. It's like what I've, how I've grown since getting herpes because I was like, oh my God, I'm never gonna be able to like have sex again and not only that, like I can't be a slut anymore. So that was the biggest thing for me for creating safe slut was like, I thought of the name little of the day I got diagnosed safe slut. And it's like, I just wanna, I wanna show people like, yeah, I feel like everyone's like, you'll find the person who like, they won't care. Like you'll still find love. Cool, great. Can I still fuck around? - Can you still find hundreds of other people? - Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly, and you can. So I think it was doing a lot of work of that like I wouldn't have done if I didn't get herpes. So it's just made me more confident as a person. It's gonna be have better boundaries and like being able to like communicate better with people which is like obviously the key in all types of sexual relationships or all relationships is communication. - Yeah, 'cause you talk a lot about when you are disclosing which I wanna talk about a lot, you start the conversation by asking people their STI status. Were you even asking before you got your diagnosis? You weren't having any talk. This is really bad, but I would just be like, "Do you have any diseases?" That's like awful to say. But like it was like kind of like a half kidding. Like just like I wasn't really actually having this conversation. - 'Cause it's not just because you're positive, you're actually wondering, you're a very good person as well. - I'm also like, I need to know. (laughing) Like the amount of people who are like, "Oh no, it's been a while." And then like we can still like hang out and like maybe we'll give you like a hand drop or do whatever, but like I'm not gonna sleep with you if you haven't been tested recently. - Yeah, so people have never been tested or they have and they've never been throat swabbed or they're like, "Oh my partner would tell me." And you're like, "No, that's not how it works." And like it's sad that that's like the response. - Or I don't have any symptoms so I don't need to get tested. So you're like, "Shut the fuck up." - Yeah, it's so frustrating 'cause the most common symptom of an STI, no symptom at all. - Yes. - So get tested. - So get tested. And what do you think? Should people, if they've never had any symptoms and no previous partner has told them that they are HSB positive, should they be getting tested for HSB or not? - It's so hard because it's like in a perfect world like obviously like yes, like that would be great. But the thing with the testing is like if you don't have an outbreak they can't swab anything and the swab is the most accurate. So they can do a blood test and that will show if you have antibodies but unfortunately the test is kind of faulty so you can get false negatives or false positives. So it's really hard to say like if someone's asymptomatic and does get a positive result, it's like in my opinion like do that and then get tested a few more times just to see if it keeps coming up positive then like yeah, you probably have it. But doctors also don't recommend testing and sometimes they might tell you no if you ask because of that reason. And then also they're like if you're asymptomatic we don't want this like widespread panic of all these people knowing that they have it because of the stigma about it which is so frustrating because like if that's the case that's fine like don't test people, whatever but at least tell people hey herpes isn't on this you probably already have it. - Yeah at least educate them about how common it is. I'm not gonna test you because you probably haven't so like go live your life. - Go live your life because like that one sentence from a doctor would help the stigma. - So much because you would be like oh wow okay. I don't have to worry about this thing. So people who also have it and are open about it. I don't have like I shouldn't reject them. - Yeah okay and your advocate for people always disclosing that if you know your status you should disclose it because most doctors are like just don't have sex we have an outbreak but like they don't even mention disclosing right? They don't care. - So why are you so strongly on the other side? - So yeah doctors a lot of time will be like if you're in a relationship disclose but like if it's casual like who cares which I do get that of because they're like most people have it. It's probably not gonna transmit that one like whatever. I got it for a one night stand. So I'm like it is possible. So I think it's like, you can't really like it's not consensual in my opinion unless you're disclosing that because it is like a lifelong thing that like I mean I don't think I'm not like oh it sucks because like it really doesn't affect my life but like any more. But like for some people like it does like weigh on them for a very long time and it's like they should have the right to make that decision about their body. - So is this like are you frustrated because that's what the medical advice is to like not even bother telling people? - At first I was like so pissed off. I'm like why would they say that blah blah blah but now I'm at the point where I'm like honestly like yeah people with cold stories don't disclose it's the same risk. So like I totally get why they're like yeah we don't care 'cause they like we have more important things to worry about like like connery and chlamydia like if that goes untreated that can like fuck shit up. So it's like they're like we have to worry about like that stuff like herpes there's there's no real health risk to having it. Obviously there's like rare cases of things but again it's very rare. So they're just like whatever it's just herpes. - And whatever it is just herpes your life is not going to end it's fine. I just want, I just yeah the stigma like that is what fucks people up. - Yeah. - And I 'cause there's no, the information is not obvious and so people think that okay I can only now have sex with barriers no one can ever go down on me 'cause I'm gonna give it to them and so on. - So it's complicated. - Yeah and then like the funny thing about oral sex is like when you have it genitally even if it's like HSV one or HSV two once it's living genitally it doesn't really transmit to the mouth it can it's definitely a possibility but it's just very rare. So like you can definitely still get oral and with condoms or dental dams it's transmitted skin to skin not through fluids. So it's like you can still get it when using barrier methods. It will help reduce the risk and obviously helps with other things to still use it but like that's why herpes is just kind of unavoidable. Like you can use protection like get tested everything blah blah blah and you'll still get it. - Okay and what is your experience disclosing 'cause you are a slut and you are a slutty. So does anyone care? - No one cares literally like I think I've only been rejected twice and those were by people who had cold source the two people and it doesn't make sense. I think in my opinion it was just like okay they after like explaining it to them that their cold source for herpes I think they're just like oh if I date this person I'm gonna have to acknowledge that I have herpes and like I don't want to do that and I don't want to end up disclosing to other people like so that or they just were like ignorant they were like no it's different. So that wasn't like I wasn't upset about those two people but no one's cared. I think most of the time people are just uneducated and then when you explain it to them they're just like oh okay. - But how do you have the patience to educate everyone? - I'm losing my patience. - Okay. - I'm like I get it. - At the beginning I'd be like all these resources from what? - Here it's a PDF. - Here's everything. - Now I'm just like so like I have herpes like do you know about it and like if they're like no like I just keep it very very simple at this point but it's actually funny I know what I'm disclosing people usually already know when I tell them because they've like I'm very open on the internet about it so that usually already know. - Yeah. - They know what they're giving me. - Yeah so it's you should be like so like I hope you like have you googled me? - You do am. - Usually they're like yeah I know you have herpes. - Okay but no one cares. - No. - Basically. - No. - And the people that care do you even want them in your life? - It really weeds people out early because the people who are like rejecting me or whatever are gonna be people who aren't open to learning about a very common virus. So it's just gonna weed people out early and I do think that a lot of people that I've talked to that got rid cause I do a lot of support calls and like it's just a lot of like fuck boys who will tell you no cause they wanna like keep being study and not getting, not get tested, not work condoms, all of that. - Right. - So they're like I don't you, you have herpes like I don't want that but like continue to give everyone in the world HPV. Which is not everyone's gonna get HPV as well but like. - No but they could potentially also be giving a lot of people general herpes if they have like cold source. - Yeah and they probably do. - Yeah like people don't stop kissing when they have cold source. People don't have stop having sex. So like that is usually how the virus is spreading which is why most people have it. - Yeah. - If you don't have it you're in the minority. - Yeah. - Okay. - So just get it. - Just get it and embrace it. Okay and besides cause this was a journey that you took on because of your status but you're also like exude sex appeal. So how, what can you tell people that wanna become more confident? - So before I got herpes I really wasn't that confident. And I've always been like a slob, I've always been like very much interested in fascinated by just like sexuality in general. And then when I got herpes it kind of just like pushed me to be more myself of being like it's okay that I like sticking my tits out and like taking nude photos and like being a hoe. Like there's nothing wrong with that. So it was like truly like accepting myself. So for other people who just wanna be like more slutty in general it's just kind of like unlearning a lot of shame. Like I was slut-shamed when I was really young. Like and I was always-- - I embrace it there. - And now I embrace it. And like a lot of people who slut-shamed me follow safe slut now. So I'm like, wow fuck you. But it's a lot of unlearning. Like we're just like indoctrinated as a culture to be like super repressed about our sexuality especially for women. And yeah just learning there's nothing wrong with it and that it's just gotta be yourself. - Be yourself? - Okay. Yeah I think a lot of the insecurities come from the fear of rejection. So I think getting good at rejection and just not caring like someone rejects you. It doesn't mean anything about you. It means something about them. So get good at getting rejected 'cause it's fine. It's okay. - Honestly I'm like getting rejected as, yeah. Not that I like love it. Like obviously it sucks but it does it opens a door for things that are gonna be better for you. You know, anyone who rejects me I'm like or you're reading yourself out. - Yeah, you're avoiding situations that you don't wanna be in. - Yeah. - It used to hurt me a lot more but now I'm like, I actually don't wanna be with people that don't wanna be with me. Like that immediately makes me not want you anymore if you don't want me, you know. - That took me so long to learn. (laughing) I used to date people who absolutely did not wanna date me. Like I used to be in so many situations trips and like was just like chasing people who did not wanna date me. And now that's like such a turn off for me. Like if you're not obsessed with me, I'm over it. - Obsession or nothing? - Yeah, that's it. Like if you peruse me on the first date or get out. Like. - Okay, so can you compare the relationships you were having seven years ago? And now like what were you allowing? What are some like boundaries that you enforce now that you are like, that you could tell yourself then? Like, oh my God, please. - Like literally everything. Like I, yeah, again, like as I said, I wasn't very confident and like I didn't know how to speak up for myself and like advocating for myself was really hard. So I would just date these shitheads who like, I would just like let them like not use condoms, especially on like a first date or something. And like I'm naturally more shy, which I know is a surprised people. So I, before dates, I would like drink a lot 'cause I was so nervous. So I'd show up and be like kind of fucked up. And then sometimes we'd get kind of sloppy then obviously go home with people, which is fine. I would do that if I was sober. But then it would just turn into just like, all right, now we're not using a condom 'cause I'm just like, whatever. And then like in the morning, I'd be like, oh shit, I have to go get tested. Like I didn't know this person. And then I would just let people, yeah, just kind of use me like, and yeah, be with people who didn't want to date me and would just be like at like nine p.m. be like, hey, you want to hang out? I'd be like, yes, I'll come over right now. - It'll take me two hours, but like I'll be there. Don't you worry. - Again, what kind of relationships are you having now? - Well, it's so funny because I was supposed to have a date today, but the person is sick, which I was like, are you lying? But now that's just my like own insecurity. But in my head, I was like, if I don't hear, if we have a date planned, and I don't hear from you before noon to confirm, I am not going on that date. And that was so hard for me to like set a boundary of like, you need to actually like plan a date and like confirm, because that's really hot to me when someone's like, hey, I'm in this reservation. Like this is the time where we're meeting here. - We're still on for today. Are you, you know, like? - I'm excited to see you later, you know? So yeah, dating people who actually like give a shit now. - Okay, so you are dating actively. What are some other things that you're doing while you're dating? Like I love dating. I actually just had a first date on the podcast. It was so fun. - That's so cute. - Yeah. So what are some other, like, what are you demanding? What do you want? Or what do you, what is like complete deal breaker? Well, this life is not confirming. - Yeah, it's so funny now because I'm so openly sexual, but like also that doesn't mean that I've automatically like going to just like have sex with you. So I think it's people who understand like my vibe and like my work, 'cause a lot of people are gonna be really intimidated by someone who's very openly sexual. And I also make adult content and stuff. So someone has to be like down with that, be really secure 'cause they, like, I can't be with someone who's gonna be jealous that I'm like making content with other people or just like talking about herpes online. Like they have to be like really confident, really secure. So it weeds a lot of people out, I will say, which honestly is better. - So do you have lengthy conversations before you actually meet anyone in person to like, I kind of like feel it out. I definitely vet, but I'm not explicitly like, I make porn, I have herpes, like blah, blah, blah, like, so I'm not gonna do that. But like, it's kind of like weaved in my profiles and like the people I'm matching with, like I can tell, like usually like, I can tell their politics or like all of that. So it kind of usually like works out on its own. But there's people who like definitely have matched with me and then like all message. And I think they'll like look at my profile and be like, oh, that's too much. Or they're just not enough. - Yeah. - Okay, let's talk about how problematic dating apps, like there's HSV dating apps. How do you feel about this? - I hate them. - Right. - Yeah, I am banned, it's positive singles and banned from positive singles because in my profile, I wrote that I run Safesla like a platform that discretizes herpes. They were like, uh-uh, we don't want that because they want people to still feel bad. - They profit from the stigma. - They profit from it, exactly. So I'm like, if people wanna use it just as another dating app, go for it. - Yeah, but if you think just because you're positive, you can only date positive people, like no. - No, yeah, you don't need to, you don't need to do that. And like honestly, I went on it when I first got it and it's just kind of scary. - Yeah. - I think it's just like weird. And it's, I think you have, I didn't pay for it. So like if you don't pay for it, I think it shows you like people from all over. And I'm like, I'm not trying to date someone in Ohio. Like, what? And it's also weird, they have like a setting where it's like not just herpes. Like you can put what STI you have. - Okay. - So I'm like, okay, people will put like, they have chlamydia, but I'm like, - That'll be over in 10 days. - Why don't you just, yeah, like there's no need just go get treated, like. - Yeah, let's just-- - What? - H-I-V, H-P-V or H-S-V. - Yeah, like that makes sense. But like, yeah, it's just weird. So yeah, I hate positive singles and they'll like constantly message me. They're like brand reps to be like, do you wanna like be a partner? And it's like always like really a lot of spelling errors and their emails. They're, it's just like really sketchy. So I hate them. - Yeah, okay. So you were talking about dabbling into sex work. Cassie Black is your performer name. But that's not that new. It is very new. It's not that it hasn't been going on that long. - Like yes and no. So I've been doing OnlyFans for a year and a half, but I just started doing more like mainstream and like really starting to do like collabs with people. So Cassie Black started in November. So it's been a few months. - Okay. So Cassie Black was born so that you could collab with other people. - Yeah, because doing mainstream, like I was using the name SafeSlut and people were like, you're not gonna get booked with that. Like you need like a real name. So I was like, oh, okay. And I would use my real name. I just don't really like my real name. So, 'cause I have no problem with it. Like I'm open about it. But yeah, so I came up with like a performer name and yeah, so it's Cassie Black, the SafeSlut. - So how is that going? - It's good. It's really fun. I had a collab yesterday. I shot a few mainstream scenes in Las Vegas last month. So that was really fun. And yeah, I'm just kind of, I think my goal with it is to like do it 'cause I want to. And then also like educate people through it. So just kind of like combining all of SafeSlut's work all together. And I just started making my own like real films as well. I have like a friend who like does filmmaking and stuff. So he shot it and it's like this very witchy, healing ritual porn that we made. So that's coming out next month. - Is that just you or with other-- - It's with a co-star. - Okay. - And we like made it on a new moon. Like it was like, it's very witchy. And yeah, I have some ideas for like other films. So I want to, and the funny thing is like we're in New York and there's not really a big scene here for mainstream porn. It's mostly like amateur. And unless you're in LA, Miami or Vegas, like those like the main porn places. And I don't want to move. So I'm like, okay, I'll just make my own production company. So that's like also the future goal. So yeah, that's so exciting. - Okay, so what other exciting projects do you have coming up? - So I am, so I'm doing that. And then obviously my only fans, the Cassie Black. And I write on my Patreon, so I have like-- - Right. - So herpes support calls, I write about herpes. Like dating and stuff. But I'm starting a series next month, which is tomorrow. So you need to start doing it. But I'm gonna release basically like I'm gonna do more like sex positive writing in general, but kind of like diary for. - Okay. - I'm calling it Safe Sluts and All. Or I don't know how to say it, you know, like, 'cause instead of just being like diary or like record, like A-N-N-A-L, it's like another word for like record. And it sounds like anal, so Safe Sluts anal. Is that gonna be the name of it? And I'm just gonna write about like sex work and herpes and dating and just kind of like, 'cause it's a little like diary thing. So that's gonna be happening in my Patreon as well as my book club. I have a sex positive book club. And what's my doing? I feel like I'm always working on things. - Yeah, it sounds like you're so busy. And I also have a full-time job. Like I'm really tired all the time. - Stop. - Yeah. - You do? - Yeah. I don't have a day off. So that's why I'm like people, please support my work. - Wait, but it's, did I study? - Yeah, I work Saturday through Tuesday. I work Saturday through Tuesday. - Okay. - Ah, yeah. - Wait, is everything you do not enough? Because it's New York or-- - Yeah, New York is so expensive. - If I wasn't living in New York, I could probably do Safe Sluts whole time. But rent is expensive. - Yeah. - And I have student loans and I have an expensive lifestyle. - Yeah, huh. (laughs) - So-- - Yeah, I mean, if that's the lifestyle you want, then you-- - Yeah, it's just like I have like no choice. Yeah, so those are the main things I'm doing. Yeah. - Okay. I do, I think because we know so much about herpes that it's, I always like skip the basics. Sometimes I just fucking forget. So I'm like trying to think everything else we can tell people 'cause like it's just so important. If you had a megaphone for like 10 minutes, you could like, no, but like everyone's listening, every adult or whatever. What is something that you want everyone to fucking know? Like what would you just tell them? - I feel like my biggest thing is just like, you can still be a slut with herpes. I think that's always like the tagline, the mission, whatever. But there are so many herpes misconceptions. - Okay, let's talk about that. - Yeah. Like even little things like sharing towels or like-- - Like the bathroom? - Yeah, like sharing a bathroom, like a hot tub, like it doesn't transmit like that. It's transmitted skin to skin and like herpes dies very quickly on surfaces. Like it's just like, okay, maybe if like you have a current outbreak, you have a towel, you literally wipe it and then you rub it immediately on someone's genitals. - Maybe, maybe. - Probably not though. - Probably not. - I even heard at the gym if some like if you sit at the gym and you have anything, it supposedly goes like three or 12s onto the seat and you sit on that and you get something. I was like, this is so fucking ridiculous. - Yeah, that's insane. Like that's just not true. There's just so much misinformation that like we're taught when we're younger. Like I don't really have sex ed growing up. And like those small, maybe one class or two I had on it. Like I don't think we've learned anything. - Yeah. - Basically it's like the abstinence only kind of thing. - And fear, fear base. - Yeah, a lot of fear mongering going on. - Right, so and even if it was easier to transmit, even if it lived longer on surfaces, like fucking everyone has herpes, like it's fine. In any STIs, chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis are all curable. You take your antibiotics. Not that you like should be happy about it. - Yeah, yeah. - It's on the end of the world. You take your seven day antibiotics or whatever the fuck it is. You don't have sex a week and then you're good to go usually. So like it's fine. It's the stigma that, you know, it's like the fucking flu. If you have COVID, you tell everyone you have COVID. You're like, oh my God, I have COVID. Like can't do whatever. It's like, I have COVID, I can't have sex. And you don't have to yell it from the rooftops, but like it's fine. - Yeah, like I yell it from the rooftops, but not everyone. - Yeah, you do. - Not everyone has to do that. And it's yeah, it's so true. It's like all STIs are curable or manageable. - Yeah. Even like HIV that also lifts in your body for forever. Now with like PrEP, and all the medications, like you can test negative if you're doing everything the way you're supposed to. - Yeah, it's so cool. - It's like, it's okay. Not that you shouldn't have the safest sex you can. And also even in you talk about it too, even though your safe slut, like all sex is risky. It'll never be 100% safe. You can have safer sex, the safest sex you can manage. But there's always risk. Like if you never wanna get anything and you're like super uptight, you can have sex. - Exactly. - You can't even kiss. You can't do anything. - You can't do anything. - Yeah. - You have to be abstinent if you don't want an STI. - And there's not just penetration abstinence. It's like everything. 'Cause herpes is skin to skin. It kiss to kids. You know, it's so easy. - Yeah. I know people who like, they got her, like general herpes before they even had penetration. - Wow. - Yeah. - Yeah. So it's like, it's a thing. Someone goes down on you. There you go. - What if, so, 'cause a lot of people think if you're in a monogamous relationship and you suddenly get an outbreak that the other person cheated on you, got herpes and gave it to you. While that is an option, you could also have the virus in your body for a while and then gone an outbreak. Like there's different ways. I think people jump to conclusions. - Yeah. I hear that all the time. It's like, they're in a monogamous relationship. Someone gets an outbreak and they're like, you cheated on me. Maybe. - Maybe. - Maybe. Do some research. - Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of the times it's like, it lives dormant. And then, you know, maybe they were like really stressed out but they got sick and then they got their first outbreak like years later. Like that's very common. So it's not always someone cheated. And like, or even just like the notion that like, only so let's get herpes. Like, yeah, I'm a slut and I got herpes. But like, a lot of people who like maybe had sex with one person, I know someone who got herpes on their wedding night, then like they were a virgin. And the other person claimed to be a virgin too. And yeah, that's the whole thing. - I mean, they could have been. - They get a technique that they weren't. But, yeah. But that's also true. But that is also true. - Yeah. - It's just so common. It's only like the few people that get outbreaks that live with such shame. Because like now you know and you have a physically, you have symptoms, right? But like the virus is so common. So it's fine. Just like, it's fine. - Yeah, it's fine. - Don't worry about it. (laughing) - It's just herpes. - It's just herpes. - And I think if you hear this for the first time, it's really hard to understand that. And if you're getting an outbreak, it's you really feel so defeated. But with time, it gets better. - It totally gets better. And it's like you're gonna do a lot of feeling work. You're gonna glow up like all these things. And I feel like whenever people get their first outbreak, I was like this. They're like, oh my God, like maybe I'll be the type of person that will never get an outbreak again. 'Cause it's like I don't have to think about it. I don't have to deal with it. And then they get another outbreak and they feel like the worst person ever. Like that literally happened to me. And now I'll be like, oh, good. I got an outbreak. I don't have to do anything. I can cancel my plans. (laughing) - Yeah, 'cause a lot of people only have one outbreak and never again. - Yeah, that's also very common. - Yeah. And if you don't even notice it's an outbreak, like you were saying, then you'll never know, you know, that you have herpes. So it's just very common. I mean, be careful, be as safe as you can, but like- - She has a sweat. - Yeah. What does the sore look like? - So, sores usually will look like, it will have that like white head as she top can be like red on the bottom. - But it's not like a pimple. - But it's not a pimple. It's like, you know, when you get like a, like a little wound in your mouth. - Yeah. - Like a little mouth ulcer. - Pussy. - It does have pus. - It does. And then they will like kind of pop. But then that's the thing. It's so hard because everyone's might look different. Sometimes it will play a paper cut. Sometimes it will just be kind of red. Maybe it kind of resembles an ingrown. But I don't like saying that 'cause I don't want to scare people being like, every time they see something, they like have herpes. It will be like really painful to the touch. - Okay. - That's a mean thing. - Right. But check your genitals regularly too. I feel like we don't spend enough time looking at them. Most of the people that I work with could not pick their vulva out of a lineup. They just literally are scared to look at your own body. Like this is your home. So take a look. - Or even knowing the word vulva. - Villier. - I was on like a porn set and the guy goes, it was like doing photos, he was like, "Move your vagina down." And I went, "My what?" I was like, "You mean my vulva?" And I got like actually like pissed off. 'Cause I was like, "You're like with naked people all the time." Like, this is your industry, you should know. - Have you had any issues with other performers? - No. - No. - Okay, has anyone ever disclosed to you before you disclosed to them? - No. I am waiting for that. Whether it's like on a set or in my personal life. Like I would love that. It's always been me. I've gotten a few me twos, but no one's ever brought it up first and something happened. - No one's ever disclosed to me. And I have had sex with a lot of people. Like you have to. So like, that's my thing. 'Cause you're so strongly like always disclosed. And I love it like, 'cause you're so open about it. But like, no one is disclosing. So I feel like if people see your content, right? And they're like, "Okay, I should disclose." But then no one else is disclosed. It's like, "Why am I disclosing?" - Yeah, on my discord page. I feel like that comes up a lot in my little herpes chat where people are like, "Why are we the ones who have to be the most responsible when no one else is being responsible?" It is unfair. It does like put the responsibility on like people who are STI positive to like have the conversation or be the teacher or the be the sex ed teacher, you know? It can be like disclosure fatigue is real. Like there's times where I'm just like, "Can you just like Google it?" Like, but honestly though, I will just be like, just look at my Instagram and TikTok. - Just stalk me. - Just stalk me. Like it's still me telling you. - And they get back to me. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I just, in the educating, like I feel like we educate for a living that just doing that in my personal life, I'm like, I want equals. Like I don't wanna do this when I'm dating. - Yeah. - I do this all the time. - Yeah. - So it's hard. - It is hard. - It's hard. - What about, what is the best way? Now that you're like, "I have herpes," you ain't or you're havin' the thing. - Yeah. - What is some of the best ways you recommend people disclose? Or it start the conversation. - Yeah, so like we said earlier, I always am like, if you know that like sex is gonna be on the table, 'cause the thing is like, you don't have to disclose on a first date. You don't, you can-- - Unless you're having sex. - Unless you're gonna have sex, which for me is the first date. But like, only when you know sex is on the table, you have to disclose. Like you're not lying to someone if you're not telling them, there's no need for them to know it until it's gonna actually matter to them. And I'll always like start the conversation by being like, when were you last tested? 'Cause it does like, one, it's important to know their status and also it's gonna take the pressure off of you for a little bit. And it's gonna be really telling on how they respond. 'Cause if they're like weird about that, you ask that question. - Yeah, sometimes you don't even disclose to people because that is already a turn off. - Yeah, like that's my answer. Yeah, like that's it. - Okay, so you ask that and say they answer like, okay, a month ago. - And I'm like, cool. Usually I'll be like, okay, cool. - What did you test for? Or no? - I don't ask that because I'm just like, they're not gonna know. They're not gonna know. So it's just a pointless question. But like, I'll be like, okay, cool. Like I was tested this time, negative for everything. I do have HSV2 though. Do you know what that is? Or I'll be like, it's cold source in a different location. Just like kind of like puts it together that cold source are herpes. And so that's like not a big deal. Usually they're like, I don't know what that is. And then I'll be like, it's herpes. And then they'll be like, oh, I actually don't know much about that. And then I'll give some quick facts. And usually it's like good to go. The patients thing and be like, go to the bathroom, Google it. - Yeah, come back. - Come back to me. - Come back to me. - I know. But yeah, I feel like for me, it's such a different, it's so different now because people really do. Like when I was in Vegas, I went on a date and we were going back to my place and I did like the one where you tested last. Whoa, whoa, whoa. And then I was like, I did my like herpes spiel, whatnot. And he was like, oh yeah. Like I had a girlfriend who had it. Like we're good. The next morning this bitch goes, yeah, I knew you already had it. And I was like, you made me go through my whole spiel and you knew I already had it. You could have just been like, I know you have herpes. - Yeah, that was unnecessary. - I was like, come on, dude. As if you're not tired of fucking having to cling to everyone. - Exactly. But it was fun. It also was like kind of cute that he was like being shy. - Aww. - You ever know? - Yeah, but also. - I would be so fucking pissed. - Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that is, are the basic, if you have questions, just fucking limo. I mean, honestly, I can't. And there's so many resources out there. Besides you, is there anything else you wish people knew of red, followed? - My God, there's so many herpes advocates out here. I think there's like someone for everyone, you know? Like, 'cause we all have like our own like the different little spin on things. But really good podcast to listen to that are like herpes specific, is something positive for positive people. But my friend Courtney, and positively positive podcast, that we actually got diagnosed the same time. And then she made a podcast like literally right away. And that inspired me to be the guru. I'm gonna make my Instagram. So those are good. And then obviously following me on every social platform. But then I'm trying to think of other good advocates. Sue's Bubs on TikTok. And she's on Instagram as well. - Yes. - She's great. - I mean, I'm sorry. 'Cause I follow her and she was just like, I'm almost 40. - I was just gonna say that. - And I was like, you're insane. - You're 22. - Yeah. - Yeah. It's insane. And she even was like, oh, let me take this filter off. And like, she's still like so beautiful. Yeah. - It gives me hope. - And like, what is going on? - That I'm gonna still look at that. Amazing then. Yeah. - Okay, you know, exactly what I'm talking about. - Yeah. - I'm mind blown. I think a lot of her comments are like, basically not even like, we're mind blown. Yeah. I need her skincare routine. - Yeah, same. Okay. And there's also sex L education on Instagram. - Yeah. Emily, she's really great. 'Cause she's like a medically based person. - It's very researchy, lots of stats. So I think that it could help people like just send those posts over, like educate yourself. You know, like here you go. But yeah, there are a lot of resources. - Just find your community that internalize shame and guilt, like work on that. I think that is the main thing. Just like, let that go. It's normal. Everyone has it and it'll be okay. - Yeah. And it's like shame and stigma are learned behaviors or like taught behaviors. It's not like in her. - We're not born with that. - We're not born with that. And herpes stigma didn't, herpes has been around since before humans and herpes stigma didn't start being a thing into like the 70s. So it's like society man, you know? Sex negativity. - I'm gonna do a would you rather that I have to come up with on the spot because it has to be related to the episode. - Okay, I love it. - Would you rather not be able to call yourself a slut or not be able to talk about herpes ever again? - That's really hard. I feel like slut is like, they're both your brand. - They're both my brand. Like I literally have safe slut tattooed on me. - We really? - Yeah. - Aww. - Yeah. - I feel like I would probably rather not be able to call myself a slut 'cause I feel like talking about herpes is too important. - It is very important. - And I'll just say the word hoe instead of slut. That's what my blue pole. - You have used that word, you. But they are both your brand. - Yeah. - Honestly, that was so fair. All conversations you're having are important. Also reclaiming the word slut, I think, is so important. Everyone that has been in bed with me. Most of us are really slutty and it's like, I was also a slut-shamed, but I was like a fucking teenager. I was like a child, but you know. - It's so weird. - I know. - I was slut-shamed by a lot of people in school, but like by my assistant principal in high school. And I'm like, girl, you were like 45 and I was 17 and you were slut-shaming me. - Yeah. - Yeah, so I really like that work too, because even if it is you and you're just living your life being so open about it, it's admirable. People are like, oh, I can be like that. And we can stop thinking that no one's gonna wanna be with us just because we fuck a lot of people. Like the body count thing, like just let that go. - Yeah, it's just another way to control women. Like, it's all it is. There's literally nothing wrong with being slutty. Like, I remember being so confused when I was slut-shamed when I was wearing her, 'cause I was like, I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong. Like, why are people saying all these bad things about me? - Like, I'm really nice. - You're like, what? - I'm obsessed with you. - You're obsessed with me. I'm just doing what I want. - I'm just a girl. - Yeah. - Okay, but in also the thought that if you have sex very fast, no one's gonna wanna be with you long-term, which I have found, first of all, who says like, why is they wanting to be with me more important than me wanting to be with them? So think about that. Also, having sex on the first date, to me, I just wanna know. - I'm vibing, I'm vibing. - I'm horny, I am vibing, and I also wanna know if that person cares about my pleasure. It doesn't have to be mind-blowing, 'cause we can grow into that, and we're shy and nervous or whatever, but like, it'll tell me a lot. - So, and I have had sex on the first date lots of times, and it's turned into the most beautiful thing. So like, if someone thinks that maybe they're not for you. - Exactly. I feel like everyone I've dated, I've had sex with on the first date. Like, it's just not true. Like if you sleep with a lot of people, people aren't gonna wanna date you. Maybe like, those are people who don't wanna date you. Like, okay, it's fine. (laughs) - Okay, great. Let's tell everyone again where they can find you. So I am safe.slut on Instagram and TikTok, and also on Instagram and TikTok, I'm the Cassie Black, as well as on Twitter, and my OnlyFans, and I'm also safe_slut on Twitter, and safeslut.shop is my website. My Patreon is safeslut, and follow all my backups too. They're all linked, just like, I hate it. - Yeah. - It's so hard. I feel like I'm on like, every single platform, just in case, you know. But yeah, those are my main socials. - Well, manifesting the safeslut one day pace, all the bills, or Cassie Black, or all of it too. Hopefully, like, within the next few months. - Yeah. Well, yeah, if you start performing a lot, like, it's-- - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, 100%. It's definitely, yeah, probably. - Okay, thank you so much for coming. Are you ready to turn off the lights? I'm ready to turn off the lights, oh my god. - We did it! [laughs]