[MUSIC] >> Fan, morning show, Sportsnet 5.9 of the fan. Fan is brand gunning, stand like a final game one tomorrow. Sportnet, CBC. >> Yeah, we're gonna talk about the Oilers, obviously, in this series. But also like how it impacts the Toronto Maple Leafs. >> And what the Leafs would do. >> I like, it's my favorite game to play on this show is, but what about the Leafs? It's all well and good that you have another topic cooked up, but what about the Leafs? >> It's, I don't- >> What does it mean for the Leafs? >> Well, and not that we would ever feel bad about it, but I especially don't feel bad about it being a Toronto sports radio host, like that's, we're given to people what they want, okay? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Local, but also the national people that feel sheepish about it, don't feel sheepish about it. >> Don't. >> Just like do the demographics thing, and what do the people want, the majority of them. Now, the people that don't want it, they really don't want it. >> No, but here's the thing. >> They're a vocal minority. >> No, but here's the thing they kinda do. People love a hit watch. >> They like getting mad, yeah. >> They love a hate listen, just ask me, take that whatever way you want, and just look at every other league, Stephen A. Smith just gets to talk about the Knicks ad nauseam, because guess what, they're the Knicks. He loads the Cowboys, but every day, Cowboys roast session, because they're the Cowboys. >> Right. >> How about them Cowboys, and in this country, how about those Maple Leafs? >> To that point, and we'll talk to Nick Caprios later on in the program, and we'll get his thoughts on the matter, but I thought we'd hash this out ourselves before we get Nick on. >> Okay. >> I'm just gonna read the first couple of paragraphs here. You should all read Nick's latest on the Toronto Star website. >> It's perfect. I have a hot coffee here. I'm gonna listen, will you read it to me, I already read it, but this is great. >> It was just over a year ago when Conor McDavid clearly laid out the expectations for his Edmonton Oilers after a disappointing second round loss to the Vegas Golden Knights. It's copper bust for this group, the captain said, with where everybody is in their career, that's the expectation. Words matter, and the ones McDavid chose 13 months ago, didn't fly off the top of his head. He understands the magnitude of where he's at in his career, and that his legacy aligns with how many championships he's won. When he speaks, and when he plays, you can tell McDavid is the Oilers' alpha dog, and has inherited the same sense of urgency as many great champions before him, Jean Belevo, Mario Lemieux, Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, and Sidney Crosby come to mind. Here's the final paragraph I'm gonna read. >> Okay. Austin Matthews is the alpha dog in Toronto, but just as great a player as he is, to this point in his career, you just don't sense that same kind of urgency from him, and then he outlines a couple of quotes, but that's basically what we're gonna talk about. Is there the same level of urgency when it comes to winning a championship from Austin Matthews as there is with Conor McDavid? Let's start there. >> I think that there is just being realistic based off timelines. Let's live in a world, and I don't necessarily believe this, and I think a lot of people don't, but let's live in a world where those guys are wired the exact same way. Let's just say there's a baseline of that. There's literally one more year of urgency for Conor McDavid. He has done this one year longer. If there is any level of that, there's just one more year of scar tissue, one more year of not having done it, one more year of your teammates and contract questions swirling around you. So just on that alone, there is, he's one year behind on the clock. Now in terms of the way they're wired, I don't know that it's the same, and I think they are very similar, but very different. They're both understated guys. Even when McDavid gives you a quote, you'll read it and you'll go, whoa, look at that, and then you'll hear it, and it's, we got to be better. We have to, it doesn't ring like the Nathan McKinnon, or sorry, not even the Nathan McKinnon, the Devin Taves. There's guys in this room that don't want to play. It doesn't read like that. So I think there is something of when you carry the mantle of being not one of, not the number one pick in your year, but the single greatest player of your generation, you're supposed to be that from the time you're eight years old, there is an element of that that is baked into you, and it's not lost on me that Sidney Crosby has the exact same thing inside of him. So I think there is an element of that. I don't necessarily look at that as a fault of Matthews as much as a thing that makes McDavid special. And I don't know that Matthews lacks this killer instinct. I just don't think he is very vocal about it, but the team seems to follow his style of play. He puts the team on his back. How many games did he single-handedly win for them this season? Yes, season, postseason, different. I understand. Assisted on the William Kneelander goal in game seven. That's right. One them a game single-handedly and one of the other ones he played. Yeah. What game was that? Three? Three. Yeah. Two. Two. It was two. It was two. Yeah. They lost three and four at home. That's right. That's fine. So I think there is a little bit of a difference in the way they're wired, but I don't look at that as a fatal flaw of Austin Matthews either. Yeah, I don't pretend to know necessarily what makes these guys ticks, but yeah, all we have to go on is what they give us publicly. And Nick's right to point out that we've never heard something of that nature from Austin Matthews. Like we got like the Stanley Kipper bus or else the heads are going to roll, but you know what? To that point, heads have never rolled before. Connor McDavid's watched a GM be fired. He's watched his head coach be fired in season. I mean, who could blame Austin Matthews for thinking there's like no urgency when all around him, all he's seen is no urgency. It's like year after year after year and I go, we're going to do it again. I mean, for the first time in his tenure as a Toronto Maple Leaf, he is seeing some degree of urgency now. It may result in the core four guys being back yet again because of contractual obligation. But factually he saw a coach that, okay, he saw a coach get fired, but he was like part of that, like that he was like, get that guy the hell out of here. I saw it with hard eyes. And he's seen a change at the GM level, but that wasn't really a firing as much of it as it was a passing of the torch and a keeping a guy from leaving the organization. Well, and then a grudging firing. Yes. Yeah. But exactly, right? Like not a, Hey man, this is, we didn't meet expectations and that's why you're out of here. Yeah. No, it was like, yeah, you screwed up your, you overplayed your hand and we will get to that part of it too. Like there's an executive question that I think is interesting in this piece from Kiprios. But yeah, who could blame Austin Matthews for not having the like Stanley Cup or a bust mindset when all he has to do is look to his right, look to his left, look up up to the press box and say, Oh, well, those guys aren't acting in that way. But I'm under contract and I, I'm going to get mine no matter what. And I want to be here who wouldn't want to be here. Yeah, there is no urgency. I got one win, no doubt, but it's not Stanley Cup or bust because we've busted and nothing's changed. Bang on. I also will say I do think because Kipri references in the piece, the McDavid Stanley Cup or bus. He also references Matthews at the beginning of the season, yes, there is a difference between Stanley Cup or bus, but I don't look at a guy asked what his goals are for the season and say, I want to help this team and be the best teammate I can. Like I don't look at that as like a fatal flaw of a player. Do you? Because I see, I've seen a lot of people who follow on both sides of it. I've seen people who, you know, like I talk about a lot with this stuff and they go, yeah, that actually is telling that it's, Hey, just be the best you can be. And we'll see where that takes us versus no, you have to win the cup versus what well, because there needs to be a level of selfishness in like, Hey, I'm the best player and sometimes it's on me. No, I don't think so. I think that honestly, the quote of from Matthews that was referenced in the piece of I want to have it here. Okay, please. Yeah. Okay. So here is Austin Matthews before the season. My biggest priority is may believe is to be the best teammate, the best player that I can be and obviously do what I can to take this team where we're trying to go. So how to because to me that that realistically is no different than copper bus. I understand that he didn't say the word cup in there, but to me that is a guy who, and again, I do wonder if this is just a year ahead of it is that Matthews has heard how many, again, these guys don't listen to anything, but how many times do you think at the very least second hand he's heard the Steve Eiserman story of, Oh, you got to stop getting. So to me, that quote just reeks of him saying, I don't care about any of that. I just want to help the team. He's trying to say everything right, but he just didn't say the word Stanley cup. And the reason he didn't is because not me, but we would jump down and start to be all playing in the parade already. Why don't you win around before you go worry about winning a cup? I think that that's the part of it of and not that Edmonton is some soft market, but that's the thing of being a leaf and being questioned and every word parse through 10,000 fine tooth combs is that we're sitting here and a guy says, I want to help this team get to where we want to go and I want to be the best team that I can be. And that's not killer instincty enough or whatever. And you have to be careful with the mentality that you want out of your players to. Yes. Do I think so what you want I think and what Nick is inferring here is that you want a guy that man, if he doesn't win the Stanley Cup that he feels like there's nothing else in his life, like his whole off season is going to be a nightmare, which okay, I understand that. You do have a big life to lead right and like, you know, a game is three hours of your 24 in each and every day you are still like human being. So like I really wouldn't want Austin Matthews to spend an entire summer like in a pit of despair. Yeah, I don't need him to go to Aaron Rodgers darkness retreat. Yeah. But like, is there more of that potentially with Connor McDavid? Like if he loses, will he be at like more crush? Maybe I also Matthew's like pretty crushed in the ends of these postseason. It's a little hard to legally agree. The other part of it, I wonder and I am guilty of thinking this is such a big thing and wondering if it really is. But then you hear enough people talk about it. Is wearing the seed like is it actually a thing because Connor McDavid does. And maybe it's just symbolic and and Matthews wears a letter as well on occasion. No, it's actually. Does he get home or road? I can't remember. But him and Marner go shares season. Yeah, Riley gets all the time as well as the sea. Yeah. Would it change anything to be the guy wearing the sea and like, how do you message that? Like, would it, would there be an actual purpose in this off season of stripping the sea from hometown hero John Tavares and handing it to Austin Matthews famously worked out really well for the sharks. So anytime you can strive to be the Joe Thornton, Patrick Marlow, Patrick Marlow sharks, which we know is these guys favorite thing. Yeah, they love that. They love Patrick Marlow. It's their idol. He's their favorite. I don't know that it makes a difference now, but I can't help but wonder if it would have made a difference to them. Yeah. That day when we were all wondering of who's it going to be and then Matthew skates out with his a on and you say, ah, okay, we know who's wearing the sea now. And it's John Tavares. I can't help but wonder the sliding doors moment. I don't, I don't know that it changes a ton, but changing 5% or 3% or 2% might be what the difference is. I'm not saying that I would have an issue with them changing the captaincy. It's probably, if you're ever going to do it, this is the time with a new head coach and Tavares on the last year of it. This is the time to do it, but I don't know that you gain a ton from it. This is a question that somebody who only knows Austin Matthews in a, not even a personal, strictly professional of what does make him tick. Like this is a question only the Leafs can answer, but it's impossible not to look back at the sliding doors of what happens if he's just named the captain then and there. And the odd thing- I just hadn't shown your butt to that security lady. If you hadn't. Like if you just kept your pants on. How many times we said that about people, if you just kept your pants on? I agree with you. And like the other part of it, yeah, the, the, the John Tavares, like the negative side of the John Tavares part of it. It doesn't supersede the like positive of giving it to Austin Matthews, but like it would be such a hard, I think it would just be a hard transition to make. Unless it's John Tavares honest and I don't, there's no indication he would do this. No. He loves being the captain. Yes. It meant a ton. Yes. To him. To be the captain. Yes. But like, if, man, maybe if you did want to like gain some, some more fan equity coming out this offseason saying, listen, I, I've enjoyed being a captain, it's been the honor of my life, but I think it's time for a change here. And I think one of the indications of that is I'm handing the sea to Austin Matthews. Like that's the only way it could be message because if it's, if it's coming from the organization, it, it just, it, it feels like the negative outweighs the positive of maybe more responsibility being laid at the feet of Austin Matthews. Yeah. That's interesting. I do think there's a world where, and I should look at the, I, for Ruby and Tavares had imagined would have some level of relationship just with hockey Canada stuff through throughout the years. And I mean, just know, I, I think there is a way to message it of it's Tavares, it's Peru Bay. It's an org like it doesn't have to be a complete capitulation from him. This isn't really what we're talking about, but I feel like I have to say it here. Would John Tavares, let's just go back in time and Austin Matthews, his name, the captain that day and I guess John Tavares and Mitch Barner share the A because obviously, Mitch Barner has to have one. There's no world. There's no difference between Mitch Barner and Austin Matthews. Okay. There's just the same player. They should be paid the same. The exact same. They both scored 60 goals. I was like, we all know this 100 point, 100 point guy, one of them. But how differently is Tavares viewed if he's not the captain, because it is a, because I think it's way worse. You think it's worse for Tavares? Yes. I think if he hadn't been the captain, no, no, I think now like if he were to be seen as capitulating the captain seeing, giving it to Matthews, I think that is a massive boon for him in a PR perspective. But if we go back whenever they name the captain and it's John Tavares skating out with the A and it's Austin Matthews wearing the C so much, and maybe this is just me that I've defended Tavares a lot throughout this and not that everyone's crap on him, but I think I've defended it more than others is that I think a big part of the check mark for John Tavares is being a good captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs for me. That's the way I've kind of looked at it. Do you think it would have been, do you think it would have been better or worse for him if you wouldn't have seen this whole captain, but I don't think he's like the emotional heartbeat of the Toronto Maple Leafs and maybe he is, and that's the problem. Well, okay, there's an element to that, but I think that if you're not, but I don't think Austin Matthews, and I shouldn't say he's not the emotional heartbeat because just goes out and scores two goals three times a week, and that seemingly is enough to be the heartbeat, which I'm not knocking him for, but he doesn't seem, he's, he's super fired up when he scores. He is even more fired up when Bobby McMahon or Pontus Holmberg scores. But like, do you see a ton of emotion from him at other points in the game? And I'm not even somebody who looks at that as a massive criticism of him, but I don't know that you're getting the heartbeat, but is it different if he's wearing the seat? This is why the butterfly effect of it is all so fun. I just, I can't help but think that there's an added level of responsibility when you wear the seat. You feel more responsible. You can feel like the best player, nobody questions that Austin Matthews best player on this team. Like everybody knows that. John Tavares knows that, Austin Matthews knows that, even Mitch Marner knows that. Just dogs, know it. Don't ask him to say it. It's a different thing than I think, again, this is just me on the outside and we'll ask Nick later on, because he poses this question in the piece is like, I don't know from an outsider, it's different when you have the representation of, okay, not only are you the best player, you're responsible for this team. But it's like, president, it's general manager, it's head coach, captain, you're, you got to answer for all this, you got to be bringing people together, you got to get the most out of everybody and you're not a passenger, not to say he's a passenger, but like, it's more on you. And obviously we're always going to look at the guys that have paid the most is being on them. But there is a more specificity to it for me when you're the guy. It's the playing coach that you're the captain. I'm sorry. No, you're right that you know who I'm thinking about a lot in this conversation and normally we do this the other way. So I'm going to, I'm going to do this favor for the people of Edmonton and make a Leafs conversation about the Oilers for a second. It's hard not to just look at the way guys are wired though, because no one's going to sit here and say Conor McDavid's not the captain of the Oilers, but I could say Lee on dry saddles the co-captain of the Oilers. He feels like the Volk, not the McDavid does not have his moments where he stands up and says what he wants. And he certainly has his moments where he just goes and scores five points in a game and takes over. But if I just if I grabbed an American and just showed them like some Oilers post games throughout the years who have not been paying attention and they don't know the McDavid's of the chosen one, I think a lot of people would sit there and go, Oh, obviously dry saddles the captain. He just has that ilk about him and maybe it's so easy because Connor's Connor and there's no questioning of who was ever going to wear the sea on that team. But he doesn't need a sea to take over and call reporters pissy and get angry in his press conference and take his team to task. So I think so much of it is about also the way you're wired in that regard because I look at dry saddle and I don't think and this is going to come across the shot at Matthews. I don't mean it that way. I don't think Matthews takes a back seat of being a leader of the Leafs or anything. But he is more of that than dry side of this is a non captain and that's just the thing that kind of sticks out to me. I don't know if it's just personality wise, but that's the thing I can't help but kind of cycling back to in this conversation is nobody would ever for one second have thought of making Lee on dry side of the captain of the Oilers. It was McDavid. It was from the second the ping pong ball came up. He was going to wear the sea, but that doesn't stop dry saddle from completely taking over the team and having ownership of it quite honestly at times. He does to a degree, but I mean if they fail it's going to be the number one question will be how did Connor McDavid perform and this is his team and they failed and it's a failure because he's right like copper bust and especially when you're in a cup of fine. Definitely now. Yeah, it's copper bust it's like and obviously smart people will be like well also Lee on dry saddle because that guy's won a hard CC game. Pretty damn good also, but yeah, this is it's Hey, who's responsible here and it would be Connor McDavid, right like he's the most responsible. Anyways, we'll continue that part of the conversation with Nick Kipperoso. I want to get to actually you know what one more thing on McDavid please you think watching McDavid in this cup finals motivating for awesome Matthews is there buds right like they've skated together. Mm hmm. I do think this is at all motivating hard to say I you would have thought that it just because easily could have been math to Chuck last year right like that's more of a bud for him. That's shouldn't say more of a peer because obviously Matthews is closer to the player McDavid is than he is the player could Chuck is, but that's his actual running mate. That's the guy he grew up with. That's the guy who he had to hear about being all the best player or the becoming American. So I actually think this is set up perfectly as the guy you're chasing in McDavid is there. So that should already be the rabbit for you. And then the guy who you are better than who you consider your peer, but you absolutely are better than in Kachuk. This is the second year he's been there. So I actually think it's kind of kind of perfect in that if there's any motivation to be gleaned from it, you should be able to get it from either side. Okay. Last one. So. Toronto has become more of a free agent destination right after Stephen Sanfico is getting the Heisman and the Canadian Tower guy blew up that meeting whenever he did who cares. No, no, it's fine, no, you're right, just like quashing the dynasty that has set that division. Like you want to talk about butterfly effect, just nuking the lightning. What does that do to the NHL? Anyways, yeah, John Tavares is signed as free agent since then they went out and got a highly coveted guy in Tyler Bertuzzi on a one year deal. Obviously, like Max Domi may have been able to get more in free agency outside of Toronto like it's become more of a destination for players, but still not like, I mean, you still see the rhino rallies of the world. Say thanks, but no, thanks. Even like a Luc Shen was like, yeah, okay, yeah, more money, money, still the driving factor is a good point by Nick to point out that in their next stops, Kyle Dubas and Sheldon keep got paid more like in the case of Kyle Dubas like substantially more. Yeah. And with limited success, not that it wasn't happening already, but there should be no issue getting whatever available exact, even guys that aren't available, everybody should be clamoring to be a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs front office or coaching staff, whether you're getting paid what you think is commensurate or not, because apparently wearing that badge of going through the wars turns you into a hugely coveted asset after your tenure in Toronto. Yeah, you know, and it's odd for me to say this because I have been pretty happy with the job. Tri-living is done. It's almost like maybe they shouldn't have left themselves in a spot where they just grabbed the first GM available last year. If it is that case where everyone and their mother wants to come work for the Leafs as so long as the capacity has no cap in it, like there's no, there's nothing stopping them from giving whoever a cajillion dollars to coach, GM, whatever. Yeah. It is obviously, I think there, I think it's twofold in that regard is that we can be as frustrated as how things have gone here, but there are, you know, it's not 25, but there's a lot of teams in the league that would say, give me this Leafs, I wish I could turn something a little more from it, but I would have taken this last five years of the Leafs hockey. There's a lot of franchises that would have killed for that, hello, blue jackets or whoever, whoever you want to be. And the other part of it as well is that I think that if you show you can handle the rigors of the Toronto market, there's no market that won't be incredibly easy for you after. Yeah, it's the batting donut and it seems so light. And last thing, just more proof positive that the cap is the worst thing in the history of the world, because my God, how good would the Leafs be if they could just give the players all the money? I just give them all the money. I mean, we did live in that world. No, I know, but that was when it was not smart people. You can't have all things. Sure we can. But why not? Why not? I'm just saying like factually we haven't been able to have all things. Give it to me. I'd like to see it. Now. All right. What you can get is John Morosi of MLB Network. He joins us next. The fan morning show continues. Ben N.S. Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning shows, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben N.S., Brent Gunning, Blue Jays, do salvages, series split against the Baltimore Orioles yesterday on the road playing the one team that has a below 500 record that they will play this month. That is in Oakland against the A's tonight. Let's talk to our pal John Morosi of MLB Network and he announced this week that he'll be hosting the official podcast of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and partnership with MLB Network Radio called the road to Cooper's down which premieres tomorrow and it's in your podcast feeds June 11th. It is the great John Morosi. How's it going, John? Ben, I appreciate that. Brent is well. Good morning. Yeah, I'm pretty honored when they ask me if I host that podcast, I said, "Are you sure you got the right guy here? You want me to do this?" Just really grateful and basically the idea is that the podcast moves forward that we'll talk with every living Hall of Famer who's able to do the interview and sit down with them typically over Zoom, obviously, these days and chat with them for an hour long show and trying to come up with some new questions to ask very familiar names which has been just one of the best and most enjoyable challenges of my career. That sounds awesome. Is there any? Yeah. You've had a long career, John, and you've worked in baseball for a long time. Are there any of those guys that you haven't interacted with that you're looking forward to for the first time? You know, that's a great question. Certainly for me, it's the older generation. Like if you're ever able to speak with a Willie Mays, I've met Willie Mays once but never actually interviewed him so that for me would be a pretty special experience. I also think that among the younger generation, when you get a chance to speak with a Ken Griffey Jr. Just for any of us of a certain age, like if you grew up in the 90s, he was the king of cool. So to be able to speak with him for an hour certainly is very, very high on my goals list. It's funny though. I also had this thought, you know, certainly these are all famous, the best of the best. And so you have to find a way to strike that balance between being respectful of that but also asking questions that are somewhat new and exciting and maybe cover new ground that we don't know because part of the reason that we're doing this podcast is to learn about how they handle failure or adversity, which is not a typical thing you ask of Hall of Famers. But it's amazing how common those trials and tribulations are for all people no matter what you do. And even if you're a great baseball player, you still have struggles and things in your life, whether it's related to the game or not. And I think that the goal is to try to bring up those points and hopefully at the end of the day, make it be a rewarding exchange that doesn't really sound like the Chris Farley show with Paul McCartney. I said, I'll remember that. Yeah. You were in the Beatles, man. That was awesome. So that's the goal there is to be respectful without without going too far down that direction. Yeah. I mean, you can do a little Chris Farley, just a little fresher. The podcast is called the road to Cooperstown and when you talk to Griffey, you better have that hat backwards. Okay. So the necessary required for that zoom conversation, you think you think you think Griffey should or John should cause I was going to say like John, I've seen you on my television many times. I have a hard time picturing backwards cap on you, in particular, wearing a baseball hat in general. It just doesn't feel like a very John Marosi thing. I'm sure you do like a like a fedora with a press pass in it more than that. There you go. I can, I try to pull off both of those looks that I actually is funny. There have been times where, I mean, you got to know me. I don't, I'm not exactly at this moment in my life, blessed with an abundance of hair. And so sometimes you've got, you definitely have to wear a hat a lot. And every now and then you'll, you'll kind of turn it backwards to make sure that, that you got good sun protection on your neck, on the back of your neck and still like, I'll do that sometimes. And then my wife, my wife will see me the, the bald, the balding minivan driving father of three, with my hat backwards, and she'll say, John, John, I love you. But that, that just doesn't work for you anymore, just so you know, like, you're great. We all love you. But that's just not, that's not going to work today. It's okay. I got it. You're exactly right about that. So, yeah, hat backwards. I've been, I've been cautioned by my, my, my most trusted fashion advisor that I have, but that's probably not my best option. That's, that's a lot nicer than I get. I usually get a look that if verbalized would be, what are you doing? Grow up. So that's a lot nicer. It's, it's nice that they put it that way, John. Yeah. Maybe like a pan of my hat would, would help your, your neck there anyways. All right. Let's talk about this Blue Jays team who, I mean, have rited the ship a little bit. They split the series, which is better than the alternative. Okay. No, no question. I, I'm not ready to, to talk about this team being back or, you know, the season being salvaged or them looking like the, the version of the Blue Jays, we hope to see this season. I don't know if you are, John, but what would it take? Like, what, what do you need to see from this team to believe that they should be, or should be buyers before the July 30th trade deadline? Right. I think that they would need to be in a strong position above 500 by then, which, which to be fair is not a huge ask, there are only two games under right now, but I think the more interesting question here, or maybe the more pressing one is, is, do you sell or do you hold? I, I don't look at this team as being an aggressive buyer. I don't think that their record indicates that they should be nor do I think that they've got the, the minor league options to do that. I just don't think they have the equipment to pursue those types of moves at this moment of time. And so I, I think that the, the decision is, is actually much rather about just, do you sell or do you hold? And I think that if they keep on this trajectory right around 500, there's three games back in the wild card. Everything that we've heard from Ross Atkins is basically that, you know, it doesn't make sense to trade Blad and Bow, which at this moment in time, I, I agree with it just based on where they're at and, and, and overall circumstances for the team right now, it would have to really degenerate in a pretty profound way for, for that course of action to be, to be pursued. And so I, I think the idea here is this, this team internally is better than what they've shown to this point in time. And if they can find a way to just play up to their standards, they'll be fine. They'll be in the wild card race. They're not, as I, you know, come back to Yankee Stadium, I'm still in New York right now. I watched the Yankees play last night. A team is amazing that they're, the J's are not going to pass the Orioles and the Yankees. They're just not. So the goal here should be have a, have a solid chance at a wild card. And that's what the expanded playoffs will do for you. And right now at two games under, I know it's been somewhat of a lackluster first half. They've still given themselves enough of a chance to keep this group together, given the rather, just the, the really unappealing option probably right now of, of, of tearing the whole team apart. Yeah. Trading Vlad and trading Bo is one thing, but I do wonder if the more pragmatic approach, and I'm not saying you do this anytime soon, but is to make a decision the other way. I mean, we have seen teams in the past that are certainly in the mix for a wild card spot. I mean, I think of the Orioles, even a few years ago when they traded Soto before they kind of became this version of the Orioles saying, you know what? This isn't the year. Let's recoup some pieces and kind of reset for when we're better off. How detrimental would it be to the Blue Jays if say they are in a position where I don't know, it's three and a half, four, three and a half games out of a wild card spot, but a bunch of teams between them, you can squint and see a world where they make it, but they hold on to you, say, Kakuchi, just to name one or a Jimmy Garcia, those seem to be the two most prominent free agents on the team. How detrimental would it be to the club if they held on to those guys? And even if they push into the playoffs and it's a wild card spot, they don't have anything to show for it. Just given the state of the farm system, how much should they be looking at taking the pieces they have that are probably not going to be here next year, and that's the free agents and turning them into something that can help this group a couple of years down the line? Well, I think that that's a very fair statement, and I do think that that becomes an option to where you could almost buy and sell, perhaps. And in the near term, you might find, and I've been an advocate for this for a while, except that the position player group, to me, is not as balanced as it should be in terms of, if you find a way to get, doesn't have to be an A-level everyday player, but one more everyday bat and maybe just add a little more value and athleticism to your club. Again, you look at Vogelbach, is there someone in that roster spot who could give you more value, probably, depending on where you look at different scenarios around the league. I think that could be a very viable near term plan, but I do agree with your premise, Brent, that perhaps the more headline grabbing thing is, "Okay, what do you do with Latin bow?" My instinct is, there's so going to be Blue Jays on August 1st, but Jakuchi and Garcia, perhaps, are a different story, and we've seen teams that buy and sell and use the assets they've got. And the reason why I think that a Jakuchi or especially a Garcia, these could make some sense is if you trade them to a team that needs pitching right now and is really going for it, is really in the thick of things, but they've got some position players that would help the Jays right now. It's almost a need for need kind of a trade. We don't see them as often enough in baseball and my estimation in season, but I do think that we could see a need for need major leaguer for major leaguer or at least someone that can be on your MLB team right now that's maybe a triple A somewhere else and blocked. Those types of trades, I think, make sense, especially when Jakuchi and Garcia, to use your examples, and I think they're very good examples, are probably going to have close to peak value this year and trading them signals something very different and something less dire and dramatic to your fan base than it would be to trade Vlad and Bo. We can look at their numbers all day and say, well, maybe they haven't been great this season, but they're still Vlad and Bo. They're still a huge part of the way this team is marketed, the way the fans identify with them. If Jakuchi or Garcia are traded, they're both really good, basically players, but I think it would signal something different and it would be a lot easier for the fans to accept, I think, emotionally at this moment in time. Well, as you say, Jakuchi, just like Blutley, the most wood, if he was available, the most coveted trade asset, as far as pitchers are concerned, like I'm looking down and I got just one of the most recent articles written about the potential trade targets and yes, Sonny Gray maybe is available, he's under contract out of the St. Louis Cardinals, but boy, Jordan Montgomery, if the Diamondbacks continue to fail to live up to expectations, I don't know. It feels to me, especially the way Jakuchi pitched yesterday and what we've seen for the majority of this season, a guy throwing almost 100 from the left side that could start game two of a postseason series for you, don't the Blue Jays hold a really key piece and would be able to recoup some serious assets for a pending trade agent? 100% and I think too, this is where, and I've seen teams make this decision. It's hard to do it, but I've seen teams do it where they're right on the cusp of a playoff birth or they're in the wild start conversation, but they look at their system, to your point, the J system is not in great shape and Jakuchi is a Boris client, so you think the chances of signing it back probably aren't that high, and so you make the move now, not now, but at the end of July, and let's say if you do that, you're talking about nine starts, maybe nine, 10 starts are the most regular season that, of course, the playoffs. So you're talking about eight or nine or 10 games of value and you could bring in pieces that impact your team for years to come. I think that becomes a much clearer and easier choice to make. I mean, easier in the standpoint of the market, it's never going to be easy to trade up pitchers playing this well, but I do agree with exactly what you're saying, that there are not a ton of arms out there. You have Trevor Williams is having a really good year in Washington. Tyler Anderson's having a pretty good year with the Angels. You've got some guys with term in Miami that make a lot of sense, like Wethers and Lusardo. But in terms of the pending free agent ready to move guy, especially because it is a pending free agent, you're typically going to be able to get more and more teams involved in that conversation because every contender needs to improve their fourth or fifth starter. They all do, and he's obviously much better than that, but the team like, I know they would not want to trade them in the division if all things are equal, but a team like Baltimore, for example, they've they just had lost a couple of pitchers for the season. He'd be a tremendous upgrade for them. There's a lot of different teams there like we'll see what Texas rotation looks like. They believe the laps are at some point. We'll see. There's a lot of teams out there that would be certainly significantly improved rotation. If you say Kikuchi were to join them. Jackson holiday for you, say Kikuchi, who says no? Come on, let's go. Let's get it done. Hey, let's have some fun here. Let's have some fun with some ideas like that. I love that. I love that. Let's burn it up. Well, that one doesn't make a ton of sense because there's no turn around. I don't know. But like, yeah, yeah, but like Richard and Garcia too. No, is there a word? Oh, man, John, yeah, you know what, we should bring this to you because this feels like the type of trade that you and I maybe have bandied about this ilk of trade. I mean, we talked about Vlad for Peter Lonzo before. So let's let's the one Brent and I were talking about earlier this week was like a trade focused around Boba Shet to the Orioles where he takes over second base and is not playing shortstop because obviously Gunnar Henderson's there. A Boba Shet trade to the Orioles with the Jackson holiday. Are we in the realm of something that at least makes sense on paper between the Orioles and Blue Jays? Unfortunately, my friends, the answer is no. And the reason why I say that is because the Orioles already have an abundance of infielders. You've just seen Norby arrive this week. Yeah, it's totally made. They've already got Westburg. They've got Henderson in the minor league. So I didn't give anything. Maybe they will trade one of their younger prospects who's not named Gunnar Henderson for for an impact arm. But I so I would say Kikuchi to Baltimore theoretically has a higher degree of probability plausibility than then Bishette or or Vlad going there. But I tend to think that the Jays would rather than Kikuchi somewhere else. Although the interesting thing is if if they're trading Kikuchi at the deadline, it's because they don't believe they can win the division, which is probably a pretty good assumption. Yeah. And so you obviously you you may and if you think about the Jays claiming the last wild card spot hypothetically. So you may have some point in time run into Kikuchi in the Orioles down the line, which you wouldn't love. But then he's a free agent after the season is over. And so if you so for me, the Orioles minor league position player depth is the envy of the industry. And if you can find a way to to to peel away a Kobe Mayo or a Norby, which would be hard to do it. But if there's if there's a deal that makes sense that allows you to get someone that can be an everyday player for you for for the next six to seven years, do it. And I think that's where that's what this team is, that their their farm system is in such a position. And by that, I mean, not a great one that that trading your pending free agent pitchers is a is a much is like to me a very sound strategy, especially if your idea is listen, we believe that we can be competitive or a more competitive team next year with Vlad and Bo still here. And then maybe they put together amazing contract years and and you're the beneficiaries of that. That's a much more plausible path for me than the total rebuild down to the studs. And you trade Vlad and Bo because I, you know, my thought on that is that if that's happening, it's probably not the same GM making that call who's in the who's in the GM chair right now. So that that is the more dramatic approach that I don't expect the J is to take right now. Yep. The Orioles honestly should be the first call they make if they're they're selling off some pitchers because of the minor league system they have. John, always appreciate it. Looking forward to the new podcast as well. Thanks, John. Thanks so much, Ben and Brian. I appreciate the kind of words on that as well. And have a great weekend. We'll look forward to catching up soon. Sounds good. See, man. There's John Marosi MLB network. The podcast is the road to Cooperstown premieres tomorrow podcast feed. It will hit you on June 11th. Yeah, the Orioles. I think we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. I was going to say all the time. Yeah. Well, I mean, we talk about trading for Jackson Holiday. No, I know. It's like, why wouldn't we? It's the only light we have. Yeah. But the idea of trading within the division, like the Orioles should be scared of that. They shouldn't be scared. They shouldn't be worried about, you know, you say kukuchi coming back to haunt you. If you really want, you say kukuchi can try and get them in free agency. The Orioles should be terrified of giving up one of their young prospects and like for the next half decade, him haunting them. But like as the Bluejish, you're like, yeah, let's haunt. Yeah. Oh, let's go to be the ghost for once as opposed to, well, it's like the would be a throwback to the man in white. Maybe he was the ghost all along, way, way, way back when. Yeah, I look at, I look at everything there and he says that it's like, so Varsho, they don't want infielders. What if we include Varsho in this? I'm just going to keep throwing more Bluejish in it until some insider says, okay, for half the team, you can have Jackson Holiday. Yeah, there is obviously like, yeah, point where which you have to say. Yeah. Yes. So you outlined it. You outlined this scenario where the Bluejish are like, I think you said, three and a half games out of a wildcard spot. Sure, whatever. Yeah. There are three games out of a wildcard spot right now. That's like exactly where they are right now. And you're like, ah, they got to jump over teams. You have the Raiders, Tigers, Red Sox are all and twins are all ahead of them. Yeah. I was, I was meaning that they're still in that position, like months or a month from now. But yeah, it's very reasonable that they're going to be there because they're there right now. Yeah. And okay, they're tied. They have the exact same record as the Texas Rangers. They have a minus 43 run deferential, the Rangers are plus 13. Again, like I, there is a scenario where I change my mind on them and it's more multi run home runs from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. What's the big pie factor? It's really the only question. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, this three games out, couple of games under 500, you fast forward to the end of July. That's still where you're at. You're insane. You're, it's actually malpractice. If you don't sell, you say Kikuchi wholeheartedly agree. All right. Time now for the waken rake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown Sportsbook 19 plus bet responsibly game one of the Stanley Cup final, Hockey Night in Canada, eight o'clock Sportsnet and CBC. We have a line Panthers favorite at home, minus 135. The Oilers plus 115, the total five and a half. There's a couple things I like in this one. I like the over of five and a half. And I like the Oilers in this one. I think if there is a game where the refs are throwing some whistles at the Panthers way, the Oilers are getting the whistle they want. They're getting their power play opportunities. It's tonight. And then maybe we see the standard slip as the series goes along. I can see the Oilers. I like them on the money line at plus 115 and I like the over. You got to pay a little vig there at minus 115. But that's what I like. I like them both. Yeah. I like the number 15 parlay at plus 320. Zach Heimann to score at least a goal. One plus goals and the Oilers to win plus three. I like that as well. Series odds closer to a coin flip. But the Panthers are favorite minus 130 Oilers plus 110. I think like value wise. Yeah. I think the Oilers are the only play here. Yeah, they are. And also McDavid, like he's going to get his. I wind up this year. Yeah. Well, I mean, so if that's your thought process, it's mine as well. How about just leave that alone? The series winner and bet on McDavid to be the cons might winner at plus 200 here here because it's not going to work out any other way. That was the Wakenrake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sportsbook 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, we already talked about his article in the Toronto Star. We'll talk to the man himself. Nick Kiprios next as the fan morning show continues. He's been under sprint counting sports at 590 the fan.
