[MUSIC] Bad morning, shows. Sports out by nine, bad at his friend, Gunning, good morning to you. Yeah, they did, they started from the bottom after those first two games against the Baltimore Orioles. But this plucky little underdog, 220 million dollar Blue Jays team came back to split the series. >> Say last please, John Schneider. It's like, hey, doing great, a good response. >> It's like pretty good, like, I mean, just take out the games that we played three days ago, like just ignore those. >> Any game that went poorly for our team, if you throw all those away, look at this team. Truly, the 27 Yankees of being Blue Jays, yeah, it got, I didn't want to start the show on that note. I was ready to congratulate the Blue Jays and they held on by the skin of their teeth and we got the NBA final. And then John Schneider had to say that and I just, why, why, why, and I know why, it's cuz he has to talk every day about this team. >> Yeah, and it, it, there's truth to it, it's good win, needed it. And yeah, like that part of what he said. >> Yeah, it's like any of the takes, any of the comments that have been had on this show and have emanated from this mouth, like that's still all stands. And we can talk about what would change that, but, but you know what? When you're not at your best to win two games against a very good Orioles team, that's good. But yeah, the idea that this is like some monumental accomplishment to split a series again against a good Orioles team at home. Considering your payroll, considering the starter you had on the mound yesterday. Considering the names in the lineup, yeah, okay, I get it, like, yeah, you're right. What are you gonna say? You have to take to a microphone every single day. It's the most arduous task by a head coach, a leader of a team in North American pro sports to have to, like, especially when your team's going through it. It's like every day, how many different ways can we message this thing? >> Yep. >> Yeah, it's just, it sounds a little silly. It's like you held on for a one run victory barely. And like, if you had to go to extras, who's coming out of that bullpen? Good question. And now, like Jimmy Garcia is not available. >> Terrible question. >> Jimmy Garcia is not available for tonight's game against the team that really, I think, talent wise, you should be battling with for Supremacy, fourth worst team in the American League Supremacy in Oakland tonight. But yeah, kudos to you. I don't wanna, I sound like a demi downer. >> You do. >> Good win, and there's one specific thing out of that game that should really give you some pause for reflection and perhaps projection about this team going forward. But yeah, let's not talk about the yesterday's game, like it was World Series Game 7. >> No, no, but please, please, God, let's not, let's not. The thing that jumps out to me about this series is that doing this, which you should be happy about, splitting a series against the Orioles, kind of whatever way shape or form, it comes in, you should be happy with that, especially given the state of the team. You know what that is? Not remotely close to good enough to make a run to relevancy. >> If that's what they're gonna do, it's just play 500 baseball, even against- >> The Orioles don't even lead the division. >> Right. This is the thing that you need to look at of given where we were at, you know, heading into that stretch against the dreadful teams and the White Sox and the Tigers and the Pirates. That yes, it's good, you would have taken a series split against the Orioles, of course you would. But a series split against a good team is not the road to 97 win baseball or whatever the number was that BNS threw up in his piece a couple of weeks ago for where this team is gonna need to go or what it's gonna need to accomplish to play games that matter in August for September at this point. So good job, baby steps, a lot to like in the game, hey, look at you Vlad, hey, another good start from, you say kukuchi, Nate Pearson, good outing even. So plenty of things to hold up and be proud of from this game in particular, but that, what you did in this series against that team is not even close to the floor of what you need to do if you wanna do anything this year. >> And just to be clear, I will say it as well. Everything I said two days ago still holds true as well. >> Okay, I mean, not everything, like everything I said with the Blue Jays, I think stands like there's probably some things I said earlier this week that are regrettable. >> Nope, not me, never been wrong. >> Okay, never been wrong. >> Okay, yeah, so the Blue Jays with that victory pulled within one game of second to last place in the American League East. They are still last place and they are still nine and a half games back of the Baltimore Orioles who are only four and a half games back in the New York Yankees. But the Yankees lost one soda to like a forearm injury yesterday. >> You saw that. >> Mm. >> Precautionary, maybe. >> Yeah, sure. >> Sure. >> No, it's what you wanna hear. >> It's always precautionary until it's not, right? >> Yep, yep, yep. >> Anyways, okay, so here's the true takeaway from the baseball game yesterday. >> The big fly factor. >> Yeah, big fly factor. Still not in the Blue Jays' favor. >> No, I didn't get it. >> It was the first thing I thought about looking like just going over my notes, getting my thoughts ready, because now I can't look at Jay's games throughout this, without any, or through any other lens. I only look at it through the big fly factor, and they still lost. >> They lost three to one, and big flies. >> Well, that's my metric. >> Right. >> I don't know. >> I haven't updated the standings. >> No, it's okay. I don't expect you to. >> Yeah. >> I can't do that, unless somebody, it tells me how to program a Twitter account to do it for me on the regular. But yeah, I can't, I'm sorry people. All I can do is hand you the tools. >> Surely? >> It's up to somebody else to use them. >> So this is the thing that I don't think either. I shouldn't speak for you, but I don't think either of us are uber capable of. It feels like this is something the chat GPT or something of that ill could help us with. >> Yeah, I mean, it seems like a very simple task for AI to do. >> Yeah, yeah, I just like, I'm one scared of AI, and two don't know how to talk to it, unless it's listening right now, in which case. >> Oh, it almost certainly is. >> Chop, chop, get to work AI. >> Yeah. >> You're at your leisure, cuz I'm scared of you. >> Yeah, you should just wanted to lay that in there. >> No, I could easily tell you that it was not actually a beneficial day for the Blue Jays in their big fly factor chase, because they, again, were minus two and big fly factors gave up three, two to Adley Rotchman, but they hit one, okay? They hit one, and the one they hit was from Vladimir Guerrero Jr, his seventh of the season. It was a three run shot, it was the Blue Jays first hit of the baseball game, one point Blue Jays had three runs on one hit, which is, you don't see all that often. It's his first home run to right field this season, and it was just his third home run this season that was not a solo shot. So, okay, I've seen a couple of different people, and Jeff House Party producer was telling me Caleb Joseph was on a Blair and Barker yesterday, talking about a different bat that Vlad's using, maybe it's a little shorter, maybe it's allowing him to get to the ball a little bit easier. I also saw Chris Black tweeting out some side by side videos of how Vlad's swing looks now compared to earlier on in the season, Joe Siddle breaking it down, and maybe something's happening in that regard. >> Okay. >> So it brings me to this, and maybe I'm tipping my hand a little bit. >> It sounds like it. >> So again, takes haven't changed for me, I just look at the roster, and I also look at like the big what, O for eight for Boba Shett and George Springer, hey, maybe Justin Turner's turning around. But I just look at the offensive potential of this team, and I just, it's why I haven't changed my take, but, and I think we're in lockstep in that regard. >> 100%, what would have to happen for you to change your take on this team? Like what would, what would you need to see for you to believe that, that some return to relevancy, there would be some real reason to add to this team before the end of the trade deadline? >> This is an unlikely place to start, but I think that this has to be said with this. I think everyone immediately goes to offensively, what do you need to see? Because that is in the problem for this team. I need to see the return of the floor, the high, high level floor of this starting rotation, and like, you got a great start at a Kakuchi last night, but we've seen Gosman get touched up. I mean, burials was good in his last outing, but he has had his up and down moments. I actually think the first thing that you need to see, and the offense is the questions that need to be answered. But if the starting pitching on this team is not going to give it, because you can be the biggest believer. You can sit here and tell me that there's a world where anything happens with the offense, but let's be realistic. If that starting rotation is not front end of at the very least American League, forget the division, forget anything, they're not going to go anywhere. So there are offensive questions to be answered, but before we even get into that, I think we cannot overlook how high the floor still needs to be for this starting rotation. And it's not their fault that it's dipped just to hair, but whatever happens offensively, maybe you're going to tell me differently. We've talked a lot. I don't think you're going to, but this rotation needs to be the group that still buoys this ball club. So that is actually, there's plenty of things offensively that could make me believe, but until I see that consistently continue, that's going to be that is actually like the first step in this all for me. Oh, it's a good zag. I like it. Thank you. I have other ones. Like I can give you offensive ones, but I thought that was a pillar that had to be noted. No, no, it's a good zag. The reason I disagree with it, though, is because we saw that last season. Right. We saw it. And they did make the playoffs, and they did actually add at the deadline. So maybe, OK, maybe that's proof of concept with what you're talking about. That is what I'm saying. But also we saw that that wasn't good enough. Right. OK. Yes. That was good. They got into the playoffs. And boy, what a start. They got at a Jose burials for four innings, right? And after you say Kukuchi gave up the lead, he looked pretty good after that, too. But so freaking what? They couldn't hit. They could not hit. They couldn't hit all season long. Now, I mean, boy, again, like it feels silly to say, hey, that's 2023 Blue Jays team couldn't hit compared to this team. That boy, another 27 Yankees. That was the 2023 Toronto Blue Jays offense was the 27 Yankees in comparison to the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays. So that you're right. That would help. I think they're capable of that. Agreed. And especially if they get more starts like that from you, say, Kukuchi after his last couple, he returned to his, like, utter dominance with the fastball thrown like the six fastest fastball he's thrown in his entire career yesterday. And if he can do that in the day game, who knows what he can do at night? Yeah. Yeah, your day game. It's tough. It's okay. Hey, speed bomb. I didn't say it was a definitive thing. I was just asked the question. Yeah. For me, it is. It's the offense. It's not the whole offense, though, because I'm not crazy enough to even think that that's a possibility that the whole offense is coming up with a bunch of hits and a bunch of home runs and scoring a bunch of runs and adding lots of cushion for the starters. And then the high leverage relievers get, you know, they don't have to work as often as they might have to. If you're pitching very well and you're in every baseball game, like, yeah, I'm not even crazy enough to talk about that as a possibility within any reasonable realm of comprehension. Okay. What is reasonable? Okay. What is reasonable? And it's been so long. You forget that it is possible. Mm-hmm. Is that you get one player, one player in his prime in his mid to late 20s, who's maybe, I don't know, a year and a half away from free agency. Who are you talking about? Well, taking this offense and saying, I don't care what the rest of you guys are doing. Like, yeah, you do your thing where you get on base. Like, do that. That's good. Set the table for me. I got us. And for one game, for one game, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. did that yesterday and give them all the credit of the world. It wasn't just a home run as well. Just like had a great game all around offense. So he takes a walk. It's a single off the wall in right field. It's not the game yesterday. Beautiful. The ballpark. God, even if this team does stink down the stretch, what would it just a pleasure it is to be in that ballpark? Imagine have a room to stretch your legs out as well. Well, you don't need room now because the seats are so nice. But honestly, then the cup holders, like, I know people like to laugh about the cup holders. I can't tell you how many times I've, like, spilt a beer kicking my kicking it accidentally between the person's legs in front of me down the step. I can't tell you how many times I've heard somebody say, like, you should've seen Ben has kicked this king cam. So yeah, I've heard. Oh, and also the tap and go with the king cans. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, we must tap and go is among the greatest inventions in the history of American stadium, like North American stadium culture. No lines. No, no, not no lines. You think no lines. That's fine. That's all well and daddy. No talking. Yeah, no, no interacting with another sentient being. All of it. I would caution people. If you are going to do the tap and go, don't be surprised when you look at your bank. Statement and you're like, that's not what I paid for the beer. Listen, they just put a hold on your card before they do your facial recognition and they charge you the correct amount for the beer. Anyways, all part look great. Thanks. Vlad looked amazing. Right. Sorry. Give me a week, two weeks. God forbid a month of that. Okay. And then maybe after that month, Bulbashed, it's like, I got us for the next month. Like, just give me the proof of concept with to the core. Remember the to the core where now it seems like such a joke that you would put your entire livelihood in the, in the lap of two guys that have looked the way in various degrees of bad Vladimir, or junior and Bulbashed have looked. But give me the proof of concept of one of those guys just shouldering the load, looking like a top 10 offensive player in Major League Baseball for a couple of weeks. Then you can combine with the thing that you said, like, I don't think the starting pitching outside of the fifth spot in the rotation, which is going to come up again, like every five days. That's how it works. I mean, Yariot Rodriguez is going to be back here, I guess. So the savior will arrive. But like, I think, even without reaching the heights that you described this, the starting rotation is never going to be bad. If Vladimir Guerrero Jr. has a week where he hits three, four home runs, and he's responsible for 15 RBIs in that week, all right, then you can convince me that it's possible that this team is worth saving before the deadline. Yeah. So I was trying to think of how I wanted, like, when you posed this question to me, I was thinking of the way I wanted to go about it. Like, was there a statistical benchmark? Was it the number of guys that needed to get going? And I think he kind of hit on it. If the Blue Jays just have Vladi, and I know this is a tough ask, there's nine of these guys in baseball right now. But if they can have a 900 OPS guy on this team, I'm not asking for a thousand, which is a big ask. I know I'm not even asking, and, you know, I understand the power is a big way to go about this, but I'm not asking for a 50 home run season from Vlad. Obviously, the way the year has started, that ship has sailed, and I think that ship has sailed just on what he is as a player. But if he is going to be who he is, and if this offense is going to work the way it is structured to, let's be honest, somebody has to be the 900 OPS guy on this team. And maybe you're a believer that can be bow. I am as bullish on bow as anybody else. I don't necessarily think that's coming. But if it can happen from Vladi, then you have Varsho continue more or less what he's been doing with the continued kind of streaks of pop. I think that's the thing about Varsho is that if you do have not to make it about him, but if you do have a couple other guys going, Varsho is a guy who hits him in bunches, it feels like, and he'll win you a series in a week, or he'll win you two or three games in a week with his defense and what he's capable of doing there. Maybe it's a two arbitrary baseline, but if the Blue Jays have a 900 OPS guy that can truly carry the weight of it, then all of the other pieces get to have a hot week or a cool week as long as they're not all at the same time. Yeah, it's sure. It can happen for Dalton Varsho. I would just say the reason I bring up Vladimir Garrojuna is because he's more capable. Oh, yeah, no. Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting Dalton Varsho become the 900 OPS guy on this team. I was merely saying that if you take the pressure off of all of them needing to do it at any given time, Vlad's starting to lift that weight, then Varsho can be the guy that has his three home or week and we're having the Varsho week conversation. And that's the way teams are supposed to work. If there is the, I don't even like this term. Everybody use it like the aircraft carrier. I gotta be honest. It's like not one of my favorites. But if Vlad can be that guy, then it allows, I mean, man, we've seen a hot week from IKF that says it's one in the game or two. We've seen it from Davis Schneider, not to lump them in the same boat before you jump across the table and fight me. But that's the way I look at it is that it does all come back to being one guy, but at a certain point in time, it can't just be about that one guy also. Yeah, it would be a good start, though. Yeah, again, home runs. The most important thing in the sport. Basically, but I'm saying, Hey, go on a streak where you hit a bunch of home runs, Vladimir Greer Jr. Like, do that. Then then you got me convinced. I hate to break it to you. I think he's been trying. Yeah, maybe that's the problem. I don't know. No, no, there's some element to that. I mean, the ball, he hits out and not that the, not that Vlad, he can step to the plate going. I think I've like a launch angle of 27 degrees, but it wasn't the 110 mile an hour off the bat. It was 103. I'm not sitting here diminishing what it was, but it was the launch angle of 33 degree. Like, this is always what it's come down to with him. He is stinging the ball. It was 33 degrees in front of me. That's why I know pull up a box score. It's amazing what's on there. I don't know. Watch the game nerd. Yeah, it went over the fence. Do that some more. Yeah, I agree. At whatever angle you got to do. Well, I think the angle is the biggest city. He's got to lead the MLB history in terms of track numbers of 100 mile per hour hit balls with a negative launch angle. He has to be the lead. Well, I mean, he's among the league leaders in hard hit balls. No, I don't. We started tracking such things. Anyways, a great proof for a proof of concept game for him if he continues it in Oakland, where the Blue Jays will face the only team that is sub 500 that they will face until July. Anyways, a couple more things from this game. You said Kukuchi was out freaking standing. Like, honestly, the line score kind of like doesn't do it justice. How dominant he looked at times, especially in person. He just was carving up one of the best offenses. In all of baseball with upper nineties from the left side and and, you know, the curveball has been an incredible weapon for him as well. Once he stops getting too predictable with it, which he was against the pirates and the Tigers. But I get things continued down the path that again, I think they're going until we see more of this from Vladimir Guru Jr. Or bombish yet emerging from his slumber. You say Kukuchi's got to be at the tippy top of the list for teams looking to acquire pitching at the deadline. If you've been watching, if you are, like, if you're interested in guys that throw upper nineties from the left side, who can give you a couple of times through the order in a postseason series could start like game two. You say Kukuchi, I mean, didn't start game two of a postseason series. But, like, it was obviously capable enough that the Blue Jays thought they had to get him into game two of a postseason series a year ago. He's better. Like, this season, numbers across the board have been better for him this season. He's a rental, so he's not going to, you're not going to get the Juan Soto package for him. But who's not watching this? Which contender hasn't seen what you say Kukuchi has done by and large this season and said, "Holy cow, if that guy's on the block, we've got to make a phone call." Yeah, and unlike unlike a position player who is having this season in a contract year, they're with a position player. There's just a smaller group of suitors. They're going to be teams that have that position taken care of. They're going to be teams that don't want to screw with their lineup. There's no such thing almost certainly as a team that has too much pitching going into the playoffs and they'd say, "I don't want that." It's just a wider market that you'd be dealing to than if it was, you know, free agent X bat that was available for this team that, like, if Justin Turner was having the USA Kukuchi season, and obviously age, part of it goes into it. But there's a harder fit there with Kukuchi. It's a starter. Generally speaking, even the best teams will sit there and look at their fourth starter and say, "Yeah, I think we like Kukuchi better than this guy. That to me is as much encouraging as it is how strong he's performed is that there's just going to be so many teams that would have an interest in him as opposed to some other position. As an individual player, he's the second guy. I root for him individually. He's the second most that I root for. Like, obviously, number one is David Schneider with my affinity for the player and that I was at the, you know, at the initial public offering for David Schneider stock and I gobbled it all up. And I'm like, roaring kitty now, like, I'm about to pass. I mean, yesterday was three-strike out game. So, like, not about to pass, like, one billion in network. But still a little tick down on the ticker. That's fine. But like, and it's for different reasons. You say Kukuchi is the guy I feel most emotionally invested in outside of David Schneider. And it's amazing where I started with the player. Sign's a big contract, having one half of a good season with the Seattle Mariners. And it looked like it was going to be in there with, like, the Tanner Roerks is one of the worst signings in Blue Jays history because he couldn't stop walking people. Yeah. But just the way he's performed since then, the way he's handled himself. I mean, just, and then the off-field stories that we hear about him. The sleeping a million hours a day reading a million books. Like, yeah, the whiskey that that was his first win in a couple of months. He said, finally, we get to drink this Japanese whiskey yesterday. I don't know about you, but like, he's just the guy outside of David Schneider. I feel most individually emotionally invested in. He is certainly on my Mount Rushmore of Blue Jays that I care about. I have my own David Schneider. Now, I'm not going to pretend I was as early on him as you were. But like, my David Schneider is Danny Janssen. And then I just like, I can't quit you, Jano. He is the guy I find myself pulling for. But yeah, when you look around this team, there are guys you're drawn to, but it's like Kevin Gosman was a big free agent acquisition. He was supposed to be great. He's been great. It's hard to feel a similar way with Kakuchi. And then there's also the little element of like the unknown. We get the snippets here and there, but Gosman's like, he's on podcasts all the time, left, right and center. Kakuchi. I like that there's a little unknown about him there. So yeah, he certainly, he has to be among the four most popular Blue Jays right now, unless you're 10. And then you still love Vlad and Bo. Not that other people don't, but. You said if you're 10? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's probably like my kid is eight. Yeah. Well, I'm the younger guy is six. So yeah, like maybe younger than 10. Honestly, I'm trying everything. I own like my kid has like a blue and red like baseball glove. And if he had like he has it in the house and you'll hold it up like you Vlad. And I'm like, Oh God. What about Kakuchi? Yeah. You say Kakuchi. Get him thrown from the left side. That or or I get more just drink. Probably shouldn't be drinking Japanese whiskey with them yet. I mean, if you want him to go sleep a little bit earlier, rub a little on the gums for too. That's what I heard. And lastly, it, I know the Maple Leafs are like, Hey, where's the internal competition? Well, it exists right now with the Blue Jays. And I felt like a huge game for Ernie Clement. Yes. Who's like on the verge of being the number one guy. If you want to bring up Spencer Horowitz, which I think the staved off elimination Ernie Clement did for one day. I like to picture that they were ready to call him up. And what are you going to do? You got a knock? Right. Him, Daniel Boglebach, every game like we're to the point now where like each and every single game could be their final with the Blue Jays. And maybe their final in Major League Baseball. Like it's entirely possible. No, it's not. So that's like exciting. Probably guys like they prefer not to be as exciting as it does feel like. But like, yeah, every day is a referendum for these dudes. We're in June. Blue Jays need to win baseball games as a guy that's capable offensively and AAA. That's a phone call away. And the two obvious roster spots are the ones that you guys occupy are currently. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, it does seem like everyone is kind of waiting for that shoe to drop. I mean, we even mentioned BNS yesterday. He was throwing out the possibility. I've obviously horror what's playing in Buffalo last night. That doesn't necessarily negate the possibility of him joining them at some point on this trip. I'm not going to be on the bird. You'd take last night. And yeah, it's just it is. It's right there. And for a guy like Clement, good. Like if that's what it if that's what it takes, it usually doesn't work that way in baseball because it's a try easier sport, not a try harder one. But if a little urgency, a little whatever, and let's be honest, a little, you know, running into one because you're in a Clement, you put the bat on the ball and occasionally it's going to drop in. Hey, good for you. You got a big knock. All right, we'll come back. Seems that it's very possible the Boston Celtics are just way better than the Dallas Mavericks. It also seems very possible that Kairi Irving was impacted by the Boston crowd. Oh, and six is now Kairi in Boston since stomping on Lucky's head. That and more next is the fan morning. Show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Hey, it's Ailish for a fire. And I'm Justin Kusser. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet Sportsnet 590, the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Ben Morning Show Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, boy. There was a moment there. Celtics have a 29 point lead in the first half. Whittle down to eight in the third quarter. I'm like, Oh, doctor, when Luca hit that. What was it? 30 footer? Yeah, or whatever. I thought, Oh, here we go. Narratives. Give it to me. Sweet, baby. Oh, no, that was close. She got no, not quite. It is kind of, I mean, not quite as dramatic, but reminiscent of game one against the Pacers where. Man, it looks like the Pacers are going to take it in Boston as the severe underdogs and then a quadrillion turnovers, including one by Pascal Siacom, then Pascal Siacom with his hands down watching Jalen Brown hit a three over the foul, though. He didn't. Good job. Man, no admission accomplished. It went to overtime. The Celtics did and won in overtime and then swept the series. Tyree's Halliburton got injured at the end of that thing. Anyways, the Celtics take game one of the finals, 107.89 yesterday. They were the favorites in this series. They won 14 more games than the Mavericks did during the regular season. They're the one seed overall. The Mavericks are the five seed in the Western Conference. They've been underdogs in every series. They played. It's just one game, but yeah, that's the way it looked yesterday. Do you expect that to continue? I don't think it'll continue. I think that when we look back on the series, it'll be much closer to this than a close series, but I think it will be. I'm trying to think of what's a good example. I think it'll be a series where there are a lot of games that appear tight where Dallas has a chance, but I could see it being a short series with more close games in it. I think that Dallas kind of got punched in the mouth. Tyree was reeling. Chris Dapps could dumbness. Tyree was awful. Yeah, he was terrible. He was reeling. I do think he's going to have it that bad a game again. I look at that and I say that he not to say that I think he's going to be transcendent in this series or he's going to put on a performance that leads Dallas to the win. I expect Boston to win this. I just don't think you got about as good of a game as you could ask for for Chris Dapps, Proxingos and not to say that he's not capable of having a game like that again, but he was shooting the lights out. He couldn't miss. Like go look at it. Go look at his three blocks as well. Yeah, no, he was he and he will continue to be effective. I just don't know that he's going to give you quite as much offensively game in and game out. I don't know you're going to get quite as little from Kyrie as you did. And I think Luca can be better. So I expect the series to be closer, but I do expect it to play out similarly to this where there's moments. We have our moment where it's an eight point game. Oh, it's a two one series and then ultimately Boston more or less roles than this is how I see you playing up. Maybe I don't expect it to play out that way actually. I think, listen, it's not encouraging to lose a basketball game if you're the Dallas Mavericks, but I think there are some things that you're like, Oh, interesting because Luca was not very good. He had one assist in that basketball game. And clearly that's that's part of the MO of the Celtics, right? To take away the lobs that he loves to connect with his teammates on and the corner threes. Like they're they understand what is involved with the Luca Donge distribution package. But there are a couple of looks that, Oh, I'm like, Oh, well, that's the Luca. He got himself sort of kind of free for three and it clanged off iron didn't go down. He was four or 12 from three. He can be better. The question I do have though is Ken Kyrie be better on the road because it wasn't just. He was bad and he didn't hit some shots. He looked out of sorts. I mentioned it going to break their own six or he's only six individually in his return to games in Boston against the Celtics since he, of course, like just kind of rubbed his toe into Lucky's head center court there. Squish the bug like he was teaching himself to hit. It didn't even feel all that vitriolic. No, it was just like, it was almost like, Oh, right have to do this. Yeah, no, like, yeah, I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about yesterday's game. Like, it didn't sound like, I mean, there were booze and yeah, you suck Kyrie chance, but it just didn't feel like, I think they were more excited for their team than they were in booing or getting on Kyrie Irving. Either way, he didn't just look bad. He looked out of sorts. He's throwing shots off the side of the backboard. He's dribbling off his foot. He fell down in the second half. He was of Ismael. He's over five from three. He was six and 19 from the field. That would be the number one concern for me. If I'm a Mavericks fan, I think Luke is going to be fine. I think he was even fine-ish yesterday, but he can be better. We've seen him be better. I still think he's pretty clearly the best player in the series, which in the NBA. If you got a competent enough supporting staff can be enough for you. And I think might still be in this series. The question for me is in Boston. Can Kyrie just look like some reasonable facsimile of himself? Not at all like the guy we saw yesterday, which was a burrudel. He was a team worse minus 19 for the Mavericks yesterday. Yeah, I think it's a fair thing to point out. I think for me, what it is, is it's the ultimate question of, and maybe I shouldn't positive this way, but it is how I look at it is, has all the growing up and maturing. And I don't mean off the court, but I mean as a basketball player. Kyrie had the quote earlier, I guess, was it media day before the finals when he got asked about LeBron and wishing him well. And he said, well, you know, we've both grown up. We've both matured a lot. I can understand how reeling it would be in an NBA final to go back to a place for your public enemy number one. Now, of course, we would love the other version of that where it turns him into Superman. And he uses their vitriol for fuel. That clearly didn't happen. And they were all over him, but you're right. It turned pretty quickly to, wow, I can't believe how well the Celtics are playing, but based on everything I was seeing from in that arena before the game, he couldn't touch a ball and warm up without them jumping all over him, which good. Great. Sports hate is a beautiful thing. And it's truly what makes the sports world turn and be so boring if we just complimented one another all the time. But I think Kyrie is going to be able to bounce back from this. I don't think he's going to have some transcendent, well, I guess you'd have to wait until game six or game seven, but LeBron game six in Boston. But I think that that was a, not even wake up call for him because he knew what it was going to be, but he got it over with. And the better Luca is able to perform. And again, not that he was dreadful, the easier that's going to make life on Kyrie. So I just think that he's going to be able to rebound from this if, and this is a big to me, maybe it shouldn't be, but this is the referendum on the growing and maturing is if you really have growing up, if you really are the adults in the room now, you shouldn't be rattled by the Boston fans getting on you. You can be rattled by at once. That's fine, but it shouldn't be happening in back-back games. I don't think there's any debate that the Boston Celtics are the better team, right? Like they're the better team. We have a whole 82 game regular season sample to point to it. Again, they won 14 more games. We've got their postseason run. Now, the opposition, not the same as playing Shay Gill, just Alexander in the thunder or a team that just knocked off the defending champs in the Minnesota Timberwolves. But also not tomato cans. Like, Tyree's Halliburton did start that series healthy in spaces and they didn't have Chris Dapps for Xingas since game four of the opening round series. So say that the Celtics do look like any reasonable person would be well within the rights to expect them to look like the dominant team, like the way better team in this short series. But it's just like, oh, they're just the better team. Also, like the Mavericks took advantage of a very weird postseason in the Western conference where it's like, okay, not only we didn't have the dynasty of the Nuggets, like we didn't even see them make a conference final. Anyways, is there a scenario where this plays out where the Celtics just roll the Mavericks and we don't get the, we don't get to have the moment for Jason Tatum where it's like, I conquered his playoff demons, we get to, he has a ring so we got to give it to him but like there's still that lingering question because the team was just so much better. Yeah, I think because of how special Luca is, he's still going to get his due from this. If this was a Detroit Pistons, you know, like Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince, Chauncey billups team. I think you'd look at it that the Celtics beat if it was something like that of just a true team as good a team as possible. Okay, who did they beat? We wouldn't give them credit. We only give the Pistons credit because they won if they would have lost. Yeah, Lakers, they didn't even look at that. No all stars. I was not even an impressive team. So I think that as because Luca is on the other side, Tatum is going to get his due. But without the 17 points in the fourth quarter and one of these games, like he needs one moment. And is it his fault if the games are blowouts and doesn't get a chance to have them. Do we give him credit if he has the 17 points in the first quarter and puts the game away before Dallas has a chance. I think that's the interesting part of all this is there is easily a world where this plays out in both ways, where he gets the credit. He deserves or he doesn't get the credit that I still feel he'll deserve because if you're you say what you want about Jalen Brown and I know he won the MVP for the conference final Jason Tatum is the best player on that team. He is so he's the third best Celtic on the on the floor yesterday though. Yeah, he was but I still think he's the best Celtic. I agree. I'm like wholeheartedly agree. It's like Jalen Brown and Tatum being Tatum allows those other guys to kind of thrive in that way. I still think he's going to ultimately get his credit because it's a Luca on the other side. But there is a world where we're asking those questions. I think it'll be ridiculous. I think it'll be unfair. But it's possible. Life ain't fair. I for the record, I don't think the scenario I laid out is going to play out. I don't think this is going to be a short series. I really don't. I think there's a lot of parts of the Mavericks game yesterday that can't get much worse. Specifically Kyrie and we'll see on the weekend. Alright, speaking of the weekend tomorrow we finally get game one and Stanley Cup final. Okay, finally. Our long wait is over in Sunrise Florida game one Panthers and Oilers. Let's do a Stanley Cup finals fact or fiction. Okay. The Panthers physicality is going to finally slow down the Oilers offense factor fiction fact. It is at the very least going to distract them. And that in and of itself could be enough to take the Oilers out of what they are when you look at the teams that the Oilers have played. The Kings are the meanest of the bunch. The Canucks. The point I'm trying to make is they haven't played a mean physical team. They played physical teams between the Whistles and the Canucks have a big blue line and you know LA has some guys who will run into you. This is a completely different animal. I think at the very least it will be the Mike Tyson. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth and kind of a crazy thing to say about a team who went through the Western Conference. But I don't know that they've been punched in the mouth yet. And I think that's going to happen on Saturday night. I think it's fiction. I think everybody's physical. You're right. Okay. Are the Panthers like on a slightly different level than some of the opposition that the Oilers have played to this point? Maybe. But also like there's now no distractions, right? Like there. And I understand also the officiating the whistle goes away the longer the postseason goes. But it must be said that there's going to be not as many eyeballs on this series as it would be if it was the Leafs in the Stanley Cup final. And in this country, which is the most important factor when it comes to media scrutiny, there's going to be more eyeballs than there's been on a Stanley Cup final in years. So if the Panthers are getting away with murder and it's the one thing that you would point to as the reason why the Oilers would win this series is like they got on the power play against the team that takes a bunch of penalties. But it's over. I think there is going to be a line where the Panthers want to get to but won't be allowed. I do think like for the first time in a while, we're going to get a Stanley Cup final that is officiated more severely because of the attention. And maybe it's not after game one, but like game one, imagine game one plays out where the Panthers are doing their panthery thing after the whistle like lots of shots to the head of Conor McDavid. Yeah. And the Oilers are on one power play and maybe it's even just no block taking to a party and saying what the hell is happening here. I mean, and Mark Spector is writing some giant screed, right? And it's all we can talk about on Monday is unbelievable that the playoffs and the Stanley Cup final are officiated differently. I can see a world in which like maybe it's not even an explicit comment from the league office to the officials in the series, but like just naturally, there would be a change in whistle. I just I don't think you're going to be able to get away with as much as you want to if you're a Panthers player. So a couple things on that. What would a Chris Knoblock screed sound like I'm very disappointed in the league and Conor McDavid is not English for don't punch me in the head. That's what it would sound like. And two, if that happens, I just hope you're ready to come in here and do a show with the Joker for the existence Stanley Cup final because all I have to hear every time the Leafs wind up in that series is quit your wine and don't complain. Go make your own breaks. Win it five on five, quit waiting for you, but that is all I ever hear throughout every playoff series where officiating is an issue. So if we as a collective decide to. You thought the Leafs needed more. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is not you're making this about this year. I'm making this about the era. Okay. If I have to live in a country where we all collectively in which we've decided there's no such thing as Canada's team are singing Kumbaya about. Oh, the big bad Panthers and it's just not fair to the Canadian team. I'm just warning you you will be doing the show with the Joker. I might have to come in here and face paint one day. That is the level of which it will work me. So I don't even disagree with you. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just forewarning you. Let that be a threat or a warning to whoever wants to hear it. That sounds like sad. I'm kind of rooting for that outcome. All right. Let's do another factor fiction. Um, the Panthers advantage and goals. The single biggest advantage one team has over another factor fiction fiction. Uh, have you heard of Conor McDavid that how whatever the gap you think is between Stuart Skinner and Sergey Brabrowski or honest to God Calvin Pickard and Sergey Brabrowski. It is not as big as the gap between Conor McDavid and another human in this series. If Nathan McKinnon was in this series, maybe I could hear it and I'm not trying to take anything away from Frank yelled at me when I used this term tongue in cheek. So I'm going to make sure I'm referencing the air quotes on this. The most underrated player in the league, Sasha Barkov, whatever you think, the gap between McDavid and the next best skater in this series is a chasm. And that's not an ock on anybody else in it. He's just so special and Barkov or Kachuk or whoever can't have games that are close to what McDavid at his absolute best can give you. I've seen Stuart Skinner shut out teams in big, big spots. I have seen that. Now I'm not calling for it, but I have seen it happen. So I just think the biggest gap is McDavid and everybody else, not the goalie. That's 100% part of it. And I agree with you. Uh, it is fiction. Yeah, the other thing is goaltending is voodoo. Like Stuart Skinner. Oh, good point by you. I mean, he lost a job to Calvin Picker during the, he just had a 9/22 save percentage against a favorite Dallas Stars team that everyone was picking. The Stanley Cup favorite. Could he have a 9/50 save percentage against the Florida Panthers? Sure, why not? It's goaltending. Yeah, I mean, Steve Abrovsky, look, like he hasn't been immune to a floral. He didn't start last postseason as the starter and goal for the Florida Panthers. Alex freaking the lion. Yeah, started game one for them. They made it to cats all the way to the Cup finals. So yeah, I mean, it's twofold. It's like, obviously, yeah, the Conor McDavid of it all. Nobody's Conor McDavid. And that's the single biggest difference between these two teams. But the other thing is, okay, yeah, just who would I pick? Obviously, it would be Sergey Babrovsky, but I wouldn't be shocked if, right, I mean, it would be shocked if like Stuart Skinner was winning like the cons might trophy. But like, I wouldn't be shocked if he was, boy, you look back in the series and you're like, when would the Oilers have been without Stuart Skinner's performance? Would that have to be for like whatever happens in the other games for one nothing wins? Yeah. What is the, that's the only path for Skinner to win the cons might. I mean, Zach Hyman's on the verge of maybe the all-time goal scoring postseason record. No, it's fun. Conor McDavid with the quadrillion points, single handedly won them the clincher. Dry title. Dry title. Dry title somehow better in his career in the postseason. Yeah, no. Yeah. Tough road for an old skid. Yeah, it hasn't even played all the games. Mr. Skin. All right. All right. A couple more for a take a break. Yes. The Oilers are screwed if they have to play the series at five on five factor fiction. Fact. They've feasted on their power plate the whole time. I know they beat other teams and they've been able to get by without a power play. And Gregor actually laid it out perfectly for us today. That was a good attempt from Jason. I appreciate that. Like attempts are attempts, but sometimes they they're not working and they're wrong. And that's what I thought that was. The Oilers need their power plates. They do. It's not to say they can't afford to take penalties. They've done a good job killing. In this in this power play was 20 in this postseason is 28 in a row. I think they're at now in terms of straight kills, but they need their biggest weapon. And their biggest weapon is Conor McDavid and Conor McDavid for as great a player as he is. He's gone to McDavid on the power play. He can be special at five on five and he has been, but that's where he goes from merely truly special to transcendently God like or however you want to phrase it. Dry title. Same exact thing. No, they need to be great on the power play and they need to get a lot of opportunities. Or at least a fair amount of them. Yeah, I agree. 100%. Like it's just the numbers, bear it out. Oilers scored one more goal than their opposition during the playoffs at five on five. The last time we saw them in the Stanley Cup playoffs in game six against the stars. They got outplayed severely at five on five. They scored two power play goals. One scored by Conor McDavid on like one of the greatest individual efforts we've seen in this postseason. Deepest, this postseason for sure. It's on the short list. Like there was that Laffernier goals. Yeah, I know. I mean, considering the circumstances, it was the ice breaking goal in the clinching game to get to the Stanley Cup final and then assisting on the zacham and goal on the power play anyways. Yeah, no, they got a very good power play. Very good on the power play. A couple more. All right. The Panthers final experience from a season ago was a big deal factor fiction. I think for a team like the Oilers, it would mean a lot. If the Oilers had been through this before and they've going through the throes of, let's be honest, what it means to be a Stanley Cup finalist in Canada and dealing with all that, I think that would be very beneficial for them. For the Panthers, I think it's not a detriment by any means, but I don't think this is some. This is some breakthrough that they're going to have. I think the biggest difference for Matt Kachuk is that he can get himself dressed at this time in the Cup final. Like we saw, we heard the story, which like your mileage may vary on a Brady Kachuk, like helping him get ready for the game. That's going to be the biggest difference is that he can actually like, I imagine like shower and like, you know, like scratch himself if he needs to with Kachuk that he's not completely bedridden. So that's the difference. It's not that they've had the experience or that Maurice has been here before, or they've dealt with the media at this time. No, I don't, I think it's fiction that it matters at all. If it was the other way, I'd hear the argument completely, but no. I agree. The Oilers, I mean, they only lasted, I mean, they'd lost in the second round a season ago. They didn't make the conference final. They gave the Golden Knights a tougher test than the Panthers didn't. You're right. Like to point out the Matthew Kachuk like being broken of it all in the Cup final. But nah, they've been to conference finals. Like, okay, it's a little different when you get to the final final. And yeah, there is more scrutiny on you and this country is paying more attention to that point last one. Yes. The Oilers have the entire country of Canada behind them. Fact or fiction? Fiction. Yeah. Fiction. Fiction. Fiction. Anybody in this country who wants to see the Oilers win, who's not from Edmonton, has their reasons. I'm not saying, like, they don't exist, they don't not exist for me. I'd like to see Conor McDavid win a cup. I would. Zach Hyman. How could you not root for him? But the idea that I'm sitting here and rooting for the Oilers. This is when I become a journalist. I'm not rooting for a team. I'm rooting for a good story, Ben. And unfortunately, they're all in Edmonton. I hate to break a deal. Yeah. I think that's the prevailing sentiment. I agree with you. It's also fiction for me. I think it's, there's no, it's not a direct leaf rival. And let's be honest, what we're talking about here is the fan base that exists mostly in this country. That's of Leaf fans. Yeah. Like, that's, it shouldn't be breaking new ground. Just look at the ratings of Leaf Games. Yeah. Go back and look at Game 7, Leafs, Bruins, and whatever rating the Stanley Cup final is going to do. Yep. Okay. Like, that's obvious, obvious, obvious. There is no retort. But yeah, Leaf fans, there's no obvious animosity towards the Oilers. But it's like, yeah, indifference, I think. Okay, fine. I wouldn't go that far. I think they're like cousins. I think the Leafs and Oilers are cousins in that. You would be rooting for your cousin. No, but there's like a little, like, it's not a sibling family. No, but here's the thing. I guess what I mean by that is that it's not a sibling rivalry where you're constantly like, oh, come on, I got to one up this guy. But it's a little like, yeah, you're rooting for him. You want him to do well. But, you know, like, I wouldn't mind doing a little better enough. Maybe. I mean, who am you kiss? Do you have a, do you have a cousin that listens to the show? I don't know. Maybe. Shout out Joey. He knows I love him. But you just don't want him to outdo you. Like, not if we were in the, like, if we were in the exact same field? No, not a chance. I'd want to do better. I'm thrilled for him. Successful. Good for him. I love you, Joey. All right. My other cousins too. They're all well and good. But he's my, he's the one that's closest to me. Shout out to you, Joey. All right. When we come back, we'll talk to Nick Caprios later on in today's program. His latest on the Toronto Star is outlining a case that Austin Matthews urgency is not to the level of O'Connor McDavid. To say the least about, like, the skill discrepancy. Anyways, we'll get into that and more. The Austin Matthews of it all next. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Anderson, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
