We're back in the Kintech Studio Dan Richo and Satyar Shah. Lot going on in the Kintech Studio. So people got thoughts on the Utah name. We won't focus on that right now because people also have thoughts on the Canucks. Maybe continuing down the road with Nikita Zadorov and Elias Lindholm. Austin and Langley, are you really getting a second pair lefty between Susie and Zadorov? Feel like you'd need another top four guy, especially if Ronik is gone. Well, I mean, so here's the thing. I think if you look at building your blue line now, if you're keeping Zadorov, I think again, you're projecting that Zadorov is going to be more consistent with this team and that there is more to his game that they're going to be able to unlock and what you saw in the playoffs and what you saw down the stretch is more of who he's going to be. And we know he's a player who has challenged the head coach to make him a better player this season. Rich Taka has spoken about that, so there is a clear desire for him to get better. So if you're bringing him back, you're expecting him to be more consistent. So I think I would feel very comfortable with Zadorov and Susie behind Hughes, especially because Hughes is your power play one guy. So I think what the Canucks need, I do agree that they need somebody who moves the puck, somebody else like a Huronik, if they move Huronik, but they don't necessarily need somebody that's a power play one guy. Yeah. I just need a guy that can be really good five on five moving the puck and making some plays, right? And on the free agent market, there are a few guys like that that are righty defensement too. Matt Roy. Now, I don't know how Alex Carrier would even fit the bill, even though he's a little bit smaller. Yeah, he moves a puck better, at least, right? Like if you're looking at, say, you wouldn't divide that money up, for instance, so you bring Myers back, you go after Carrier type, it doesn't cost a ton. And then you bring somebody who was more physical as well, like say a Matt Roy type, or perhaps even, you try to see what Chris Tann is trying to do, right? Brett Pesche, perhaps, in that conversation too, somebody who moves the puck fairly well five on five can make a couple plays for you, right? But not on the super high end, and it isn't necessarily a power play one guy, right? So I do think there are ways for you to get better and keep the door off defensively and move Huronik. Like, I think there are ways to do so. It's just, you got to make sure you don't miss on those guys because, you know, it's they're, you don't want to be stuck in a position where you're missed out on all your targets and you're talking about scraping the bottom of the barrel to try to make your defense work next season on the right side. Yeah. You don't want to be starting free agency left empty handed. And again, right now is the time that teams are probably canvassing a lot of agents and trying to figure out where they rank on guys priority lists when it comes to free agent destinations and those kinds of things. Not all of it gets done on July 1st as we know, but I think Huronik is, is like the most fascinating part of all this because, yeah, if you bring back Zadora, if you bring back Lindholm, there is no, you bring back Myers, there's definitely no money for Huronik to return. No, there isn't unless you move money out. Now, you know, we were talking about this, like what could, would Huronik even consider a bridge contract? I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, unless you go big on the number, which again, like, if you don't want to pay eight million, do you want to give them three years times seven, eight, like again, like he's looking for eight million. What's going big short term, right? I got, I don't think three by seven or two by six and a half. Like, I don't know. I don't think you're buying one free agent, you're not unrestricted free agent here. What's the upside for him? I don't know. More years of track record with Quinn Hughes. Yeah. Yeah. But like, it just, like, how much more is he looking to truly produce, right? Like it. And how much is it really going to change his lot in life in terms of finding that big, long term deal? I just don't see the upside for probably pushing for the big contract now because of the season he just had. Yeah. So Carver on Twitter was saying what games were people watching make them think Lindholm is a must sign and Garland is a piece that needs to go to make it work. And in terms of the Canucks, look at the move money out, Garland's name comes up, right? Because if you're looking at options to move out, there's only two guys to look at. It's Garland and Mikayev. Because they're not moving anybody else, right? Like, again, best situation is a situation that is in a holding pattern. So when I look at it, I don't think they probably should trade Garland right now anyways. I'm open to trading anybody. I don't, you know, me. But I think Lindholm, if you're keeping him in Garland, that's a duo for you. It's a duo having JT and best her together. Yeah. The question is, who's going to be duo playing alongside Patterson? So if you feel like you can sign a righty defenseman and you feel like you can fill her own spot that way, then what can you trade her own for to address your needs up front? And could you trade her own and get, say, a first round pick and another asset, whether that's another pick, whether that's a prospect or whatever? Does that give you ammunition to go out and get somebody on a cheaper contract, a younger player that could fit in potentially as a Patterson line, mate? That would be the ideal scenario. Like, if you are going down this road, then whatever you're getting for Phillip Peronic is probably going to be used to give you something, whether it's cap space or assets, to go out and get that top six winger, or whatever you want to call it, like winger for Elias Pedersen, because I think in this world where Lindholm returns, you're thinking of this as a top nine, you know, 100%, you have to, and you have three, like, I don't think there's another team that has that much quality down the middle of the ice in the league. No, you would throw your top three centers. It's something that they kind of signaled, though. They want to be strong down the middle. It would be their advantage on almost everybody in the league. Yeah. And five on five regular season, they'd be very tough to play against. And also in terms of injury proof, one of your top guys go down, up front, say, Patterson or Miller, you know, or Lindholm goes down, you still feel like you're, you're fine getting through the regular season with having three of those centers, but you need more wingers. And we know they want to find somebody for Patterson. The thing is, you can't force the high-end player. Like we talk gentle. We talk nature. But you can't force those players. Yeah, Gensell's not coming to Vancouver. And Nachas, we keep hearing it's not going to be a fit, so it's going to be have to be somebody else. And if it's not going to be via trade, then it is a secondary market. And Tofoli, I think, isn't straightforward because I think he's going to have a lot of suitors as well. But to me, I could be happy this offseason if the winger's solution for the next three years is Tofoli. Yeah. It gives you at least a pretty surefire player for the next couple of years. It gives you an option over the next couple of years and, you know, I get it. You'd love to have a superstar and maybe that superstar down the road or big-time scoring winger is Jonathan like a remaki for Elias Patterson. But maybe that isn't right now. And you have to still find solutions. You know, do I love the idea of giving Nikita Zadora of $30 million or maybe a little bit more on a six-year term? Not really. Of course, there's quite a bit of risk in doing that from what he's provided mostly through his career. Same for Elias Linholm. This kind of contract that we've been talking about today, seven years, little over $50 million like, yeah, for a guy that hasn't produced a ton over the last couple of seasons, there's some risk there. The risk is production. Yeah. Like, his five-on-five impact, his overall play, I don't have any questions about it. But people in Vancouver have Louis Erickson PTSD and little things don't matter when you're making six, seven million per season. Yes. You know, and that can't be the discussion next season when we're talking about Linholm. If Linholm comes back and signs a contract worth seven million plus, let's say, right? We can't be sitting here talking about how, well, at least he's doing the little things well. Like you got to have a bottom line, a strong bottom line. Would you pay seven million dollars for a 50-point player? No. That's kind of what Linholm is going to be. Now, technically like a top nine center, a third-line center. Okay. Well, 50 points is actually better than what he got this year, which was like 40, whatever it was. Yeah. If he gets 20 goals and say 55 points, but, but let's say he's a silky finalist next year. Yeah. Well, different conversation. Then it's a different conversation. But that's what it has to be to me, right? If you're signing Linholm, it's going to have to be either he bounces back offensively and you're getting at least a 25 goal guy plus 60-point guy somewhere in that range and he's good defensively, or if the production is beneath that level, he's got to be like super early, too late. Yeah. Like we're talking 45, 50 points, but we're talking about legitimately one of the best matchup centers or if not one of the best shutdown centers in a league. That's kind of where he has to be if you're bringing him back. And the question is, for a guy who's going to be 30, how many of those years can he bring that level of play for you? That's a great question. Three, four years, you'd be signing him until his age 37 season. That's a lot. It's a big ask to get that player to have success through that time. For those asking in the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox, would it come with a no trade clause? Look, I imagine you're signing a guy for a seven-by-seven, he's probably coming with a no trade clause. Oh, I mean, yeah. I think these guys are getting no trade clause. Yeah. They're just part of doing business. If you're getting as a doorknob on Lindholm sign, you're probably getting them signed slightly for less than what they can get on the market. Yeah. They'll probably take a little bit less, but not significantly less. And a trade-off or whatever they're leaving on the table, even if it's a million bucks, is all the trade protection they want. With Lindholm, you know, is he still playing Power Play 1? How does it all work? Like I have all those questions, but he's going to have to be an ace defensively and still provide around 50-point production for that to really work. And of course, you know, winning when it matters most is ultimately going to be the thing that decides whether or not the contract is good or not. Honestly, the more we look at the playoffs, and we made this point yesterday, especially with how Lindholm played, if Patterson, if you have Patterson, JT, and Lindholm going in a playoff together, yeah. If Patterson was where we expect to leave as Patterson to be, I mean, the playoffs probably play out very differently, given how well Lindholm had played in the postseason. So if Patterson gets going, let's say, in an alternate universe where Patterson is better in the postseason, are the connects still playing? Probably. I mean, we're talking about a series that, you know, they lost three one-goal games. Okay. And if Patterson only scored what one goal in the playoffs? Right. And if you feel like Patterson is going to be better, and especially from the team's perspective, they gave him 11.6 million for eight years, they believe he's going to be better, then can you understand why they want to bring Lindholm back? I can. You know what I mean? You look at it, and you say, like, man, if that guy was going, one thing happens. We were there. I mean, like, maybe we're not that far away. You know what I mean? In terms of how the game gets played in the playoffs, it's one thing getting to the playoffs and once you're in the playoffs. Yeah. And with the edge of the connects, what have had if Patterson was going? Well, is this your way of like maximizing your window over the next three years? Pretty much. I just have to think of it as how many great years do you have a JT left because you committed to him and also three years left of Quinn Hughes at this favorable move on two years of Demco at five at two years of Demco at five. So as much as yes, you have a eight year window that's now open with Elias Patterson. You're focused on this shorter term window. It's hard to say what are you leaving on the table in the future if you were to sign Lindholm to a contract like this, but I could see the logic in, okay, maybe we don't really have a shot at any of the other top wingers that could really fix our top six issue. So what's our next best option? Well, we go with the top three, the top center on the market who's been with us for the second half of this season, Elias Lindholm and work from there. What do we always say? Wingers are easier to find than good sentiment. So from that process, you're building out the roster from that mindset of, okay, yeah, maybe we're not going to have the big name winger to put next to Elias Patterson, but it's easier to find guys on the wing than it is to find a guy like Elias Lindholm. That's the logic. And the thing that's going to be really interesting too is because... And they don't have any centers coming. That's another big part of the conversation. Like there's nobody coming in the organization. And like Eric Mack is the only winger and that might be in, you know, at least 12 to 18 months away, but really making the impact you wanted to make, right? So there's no immediate help coming for somebody who's going to blow up unless like Karen Mackie just explodes, right? And hey, hopefully he does in training camp, but we'll see how that all goes, right? And, you know, people mentioning why do you guys think Lindholm's re-signing? Well, it's not so much about what we think. It's more about what's been going on. And I'm back mentioning some progress with Zadorov and with Lindholm. Now Zadorov's agent Dan Milstein's pushed back on that and said it's fake news on social media, our take is, and from what I've heard, there has been work done. And I think that, you know, the parties... I don't think you should be... I think there has been enough stuff happening or happened, whether it's recent or before, that there is a deal to be made if the connects want to make it. Yeah. And that's why we're talking about this. Now, whether that actually happens or not, we'll see. But if it doesn't happen, they'll reach. Here's what's really fascinating. The entire complex of what we're talking about changes. And I think that's a reality that connects Livin, where they understand that this offseason can take on a number of different paths for them. And one of the reasons they haven't signed, say, Myers and even Joshua and kind of Blugger, below the line a little bit, is until you figure out which direction you're going on the big pieces, you can't commit any other money. Because it's either going to be Lindholm or maybe now, if it's not Lindholm, you're spending more on other players in different spots. Because of, sure, you want the center, but you can't force the issue. Or maybe there is a center, maybe the likes Chandler Stevenson, who knows, right? So I think this offseason can take a number of different directions. And in alternate universes, there could be so many different realities this team will be living in based on what happens this offseason, right? There is a butterfly effect. There is. And I think they are ready to pivot to different ways. You know what I mean? So where they're not fixated on, we have to get the center. We have to get this. It's kind of like, this is our ideal way of going about it. But we can still strengthen doing these things as well. It's Dan Reicho, Sati Arshah, appreciate the texts, comments, all those coming in. We'll continue to discuss this version of events as the show continues. Landon Ferraro is going to join us. He's been a playoff analyst for us, of course, former NHLer. He's up next here on Canucks Central. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drans. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on SportsNet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. [MUSIC] Back in on Canucks Central. We're in the Kintec Studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider. They're powered by thousands of five star Google reviews. So are Pete. What are you waiting for? Dan Reicho, Sati Arshah, second hour of the program. We bring in our next guest. He's been joining us throughout the Stanley Cup playoffs. It is Landon Ferraro. Thanks for this Landon. How you doing? Doing pretty good guys. How you doing? We're doing well. What's the worst incident you've had with a water bottle? Oh, geez. I had a big spill with a water bottle. Yeah. A lot of bench or anything has anything ever happened. I mean, I've definitely smashed a few. Detroit's in the minors and Grand Rapids trainer is a dog, Brad Thompson. He's one of the best guys in hockey. And I'd get the kind of the strong grab on the shoulder once in a while. That's probably enough. We're not replacing two more tonight, that's my bet. So Landon Ferraro would go full JT Miller on the water bottles. Yeah. What? Quickly though, I even got a better one just to sewer my dad a little bit on this. When he was playing in LA, my mom drove me and my brother up to Anaheim to go watch him on the road. It was probably 10 minutes into the first period, got kicked out, goes down the tunnel a little bit. And then before you know, you just see a couple water bottles come flying out the tunnel too. I was like probably six, I still remember it perfectly. Oh, that's great. I did want to ask you today, I've been meaning to ask you this the last couple of weeks, but you scored a goal in Vancouver, that must've been cool. Yeah, I mean, that was, it went as bad as good as it possibly could have. And considering my first game in Vancouver, about three weeks a month before, it was, it was an unbelievable feeling and experience. Like I came with Detroit the first time and I played about two minutes, I sat on the bench, it was painful. And then when I moved to Boston, we came right back and yeah, I got to do it with, out on the ice with Bergeron and and and Marshawn. So that was, you know, something I'll remember forever. How much did your buddies chirp you that you, they came all the way to watch you and you only played two minutes? Honestly, it was, it was my uncle that gave it to me the worst, he brought the whole family when he came back the next time, he's like, I don't want to be like that guy, but like, are you going to actually play? I have been, that's all I can tell you right now. Oh, that's great. Love hearing these stories. It's Landon Ferraro joining us here on, on, on Canucks Central. So a lot of the discussion today has been speculation on, on what the Canucks next moves are of the off season and depending on who you ask, that seems like they could be closer to bringing back guys like Elias Lindholm and, and Nikita Zadora, although there are somewhat conflicting reports on that, but just your, your take on, on the idea of bringing those to back. I mean, you know, Lindholm was great in the playoffs and Zadora was, was a pretty good fit from, from the day he got to Vancouver. Yeah. I mean, both players, you ended up getting exactly what you wanted and, you know, when Zadora's case, you know, a bit more than expected. They would be huge pieces to bring back. The hard part is, you know, obviously at what number and what term. You can't pay just for recent bias of how well someone did, you know, but that's where I think this management group has done really well and that's, you know, I know I've heard you guys talking about it of, you know, they have their plan A, but they also have plant BC and D already kind of lined up. Yeah. The new age manager can't just focus on one or two things like you have to be thinking outside the box. If we can't, or we can't bring back Lindholm, you know, what can we bring in at maybe a bit of a bargain so that we can throw a bit of money onto the back end like it's, it's a tricky situation now with the cap and, and all of it, but it's, it's, it's, I would imagine it would be very frustrating. You feel like you have something kind of done, but, you know, even just with, you know, Utah coming in this year with money to spend, like guys are going to want to go to the market and see what they're worth and it's, it's their right. Yeah, absolutely too. And, and I mean, it's one of those things when you look at the fact that there's 32 teams now across the league, like there's a real scarcity of top end talent, even the middle end talent. I think you start looking at number four defensemen, top four defensemen, especially those four or five guys that maybe a few years ago would get squeezed a little bit. Now it's like, well, there aren't enough real top four defensemen. So four or five guys got to be your number four, you know, number three. So that kind of puts these guys in a different position as well when they hit the market. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, back a handful of years, like, I feel like the trade deadline was filled with third and fourth defense. Yeah. Like we need that extra, like real boost on the back end. And now, like what you were having to pay for those guys then, like, you're not getting anything for it now. Like you're having to overpay to get any type of help. Like, there's just not enough guys to go around at that time of year. And when you start filling in and you're hoping that your prospects can come in and start challenging for jobs, you know, that's obviously the biggest contributor to successful teams now is homegrown talent and the Canucks have some down there, but they're going to need them to take a step to where, you know, maybe they can afford to let one of them walk that they didn't want to, but someone can eat those minutes and are ready for them. You know, the idea with Lindholm, and look, he is the number one true center on the market. Like the other guys on the market, it's Sam Coase, who, you know, not really a true center at this stage of his career. You'd say the same about Sam Reinhard, he can play a little bit of center, but mostly plays on the wing. Lindholm is the guy, but he is coming off a couple of years where, you know, he didn't score a ton only ended up with 44 points this year, 64 the year prior. And the thing that's different for Vancouver in the Lindholm conversation is like Lindholm would kind of be their third line center, even though deployment may not end up playing that way. It just will look that way in line rushes. But other teams would be signing Lindholm to be their number one center if it's Columbus or Utah, or even the Boston Bruins who have long been been rumored to have interest in a lie as Lindholm. I mean, to me, that's, it's going to be weird to see the Canucks pay seven million plus for a guy like that to be playing behind Miller and Elias Patterson. Yeah. And I mean, that's something that Lindholm's going to have to think about to the lake. Every guy, obviously you want to sign for as much as you can and be in the best position, but like not everyone's meant to be a first line center and be that full offensive driver. And that's not a knock on Lindholm, but maybe he likes the fact that he's a little bit insulated here. He can focus a bit more and be that shutdown full 200 ice player that he was unbelievable at in the playoffs, right? So I mean, he's got to make that decision as well. But at the same time, you're right, like, you know, we're watching, we're going into the finals and a guy like Ryan Nugent Hopkins, who's that kind of, you know, he's a step down off of the top guys, but like every coach wants that player, they don't have to worry about them. They can go out, like just go focus on that matchup. And that's it, right? Like you can just leave them be. And that's what you need as you have, you know, when you go farther and farther in playoffs, like you need to have a couple of guys that when things aren't going right, that they're the calming force when they're going on the ice and you know that they know what's expected. They know what their job is and they can do it. And that's why a guy like Lindholm is going to make good money, but he's going to have to decide where he wants that to be because he's going to have a choice. And I think it says a lot, doesn't it? When a guy like JT Miller and other teammates are like, you know, campaigning the organization to keep the guy? For sure. I mean, like, but you guys bring up like his stats have been, you know, they've dipped the last couple seasons, like it doesn't matter what line of work you're in. Like if you're not happy where you're working, it's impossible to give everything you have. And when things are going tough and there's no hope at the end of the road, like it's hard to play your best hockey. And then he comes here and like their team is rolling. There's excitement. Like you feel like a little kid again, like you get that excitement back. And once you get that taste, like he's not going to, like I can guarantee if it's even if it's not back here, he's not signing with a team that has no immediate future. I just don't see it. He's already been dealing with that and he's got a taste to play offs again. He's going to want to keep rolling. Yeah, no, I'm with you on that as well. And it's going to be really fascinating to see if it is here in Vancouver or elsewhere for a nice Lindholm. But, you know, Nikita Zadorov's a really interesting case because he's a player that obviously was fantastic for the Canucks in the postseason. But for the course of his career, and he's already had a very long career for somebody who's 29 years old, he's been in the league for 10 seasons. And the thing is, we haven't seen him be consistent in terms of a top four guy that can play 19, 20 minutes every single game and the fact that he can play at that consistent level. We see games where he's at that level and other games are obviously, it's not close to where it needs to be. For a guy who's 29 years old, is there a pathway for him to be that more consistent, better version of himself next season and beyond? Or is that asking too much at this stage of his career? I think he can find the consistency. I don't think it's at the level it was in playoffs by, you know, by a stretch. But I think that he can find, you know, he's just like, he's got more experience, he's more confident in himself, like even just another bit of a run that they go on. Like, that's just feeding into him that, you know, he's a confident guy that knows he's a good player, but now seeing it and putting it into practice, like it's just building through the summer now as well. I think he can find that. I just, I get nervous with the number with him just off of how much the city fell in love with him and how well he did that you can't pay for what you got in the playoffs with him. Like, I just don't think he's going to be able to do that, especially on a term contract. But if you can get him at a number that both sides are comfortable with, I think he could be someone here that, you know, you have Quinn Hughes that is flying around the ice and doing all of the things that everyone loves to watch. But then you have that steady, big man back there, right? Like, you saw how well this team took a step this year when they got, you know, mobile-sized defense men, and they're obviously going to want to keep, you know, keep as much of that and talk as they can. The, the coach was, was on, on the station earlier today and he mentioned it was asked about guys having, you know, big off seasons and getting in the training room and he specifically pointed out, Alias Patterson is one that needs to have a quote, unquote, big summer. And you know, we know it was a tough end of the year for Patterson. But for, for a player, any player's caliber, like how big is the summer to not only get yourself back to a 100% health, but also put yourself into a better position to get better next season? I mean, it's, it's everything now, right? Like, you can't do much during the season. That's where, you know, guys coming out of junior and college and turning pro, like they don't understand how hard a season is, like it's long and it's a grind, like you're not going to be taking big steps through the season. So really the only time you have to work at something is in the summer. And you know, when I was coming in and, you know, guys older, like season would end, you take, you know, a couple months off skating, like you wouldn't touch the ice until middle of July, and you take a, you know, a good solid three weeks off before you started working out. Like now, like guys are, they take their tiny breaks, but they're getting right back onto the ice. They're getting right back into the gym and it's not crazy lift as much as you possibly can. It's very focused on what individual needs are. You know, I'll throw it over to, on a floor to side for a second, like I've trained at the same spot at the same time with Sam Reinhardt for the past couple summers, before I retired. And he took a step back in workload this past year and worked more on mobility and just being as strong as he could at the size that he was. And the effort he put in through there, you could see it this year. Like, I mean, he had a career year going into a contract year, it's as good as you possibly could have it. That's what a summer can do, he had a beat up areas, he focused, he got that, you know, right back in with his, with his trainer here in North Van and it's fully put him ready. So for Pedersen, you know, he can get a jump on this. And again, like I feel like he, he was disappointed with how it goes to, right? Like he wanted to play well, he wanted to contribute, he's, he's right in there with the guys working as hard as he can, like this summer he knows he needs to take a step and he's going, you know, he's at the age where you're turning into a like your real man body. Like there's some weight to find there, there's some extra strength that he can be gained this summer. And I think if he puts the work in which on confident that he will, I think he's going to come back and you're going to see it pretty quickly in training camp just, just even something as little as his first step will be more explosive, it'll be, it'll just look older and stronger. Yeah, and I'm, I'm really excited for next season already, I think with how motivated this group seems to be, especially a player like him and fascinated to see how he shows up to camp and how he begins next season. Before the season ends though, we have a Stanley Cup final coming up and it's two days away we've been waiting what feels like forever for the Cup final to kind of come around. So it's given us all plenty of time to think about this series and perhaps even overthink this series. I think we've all kind of gone from maybe feeling like one team's going to win to now maybe entertaining the other teams going to win. What's your kind of outlook here about this series heading into Saturday? Well, because I'm kind of new with this all of a sudden I throw out my last one with Edmonton and I feel like I'm going to say the same thing. Like I don't see how Florida loses, but I said that about Dallas and Edmonton. And I was completely blown away with how, I mean you could see it in the early rounds, their defense was way better, but it seemed to take another step this past series. Like they just Edmonton just kind of sat back into just like work comfort mode. And it was really impressive to watch, but you know you look back on the other side and the firepower that they have through pretty much all lines is impressive and with Bobrowski playing the way that he is right now, it's very impressive like looking at his numbers especially like under pressure against in the Ranger series like his numbers got better. Like he seems to be rising to that occasion. The experience last year has obviously helped, but I think it's going to be an amazing series just like pretty much all of this playoffs have been so far. The thing with Florida and they did this to New York, they just, they didn't let our Temi Panerra and Mika's advantage had have a lot of puck touches in that series, right? They play probably the best puck possession game in the NHL and that's why they're in the Stanley Cup final like that's, that's where it's going to be tough for McDavid and dry side. But if Florida starts playing keep away, that's going to make it very difficult for them. Yeah. Well I mean you look at the stat of Forzeling and Ekblad haven't had a goal against five on five against Kucharov, Pasternak or Zabinajet and Kreider going through their playoff like that is, that is ridiculous. So I mean if they somehow carried that through this next series and it's you know on to add on to that list McDavid and dry side, then there's no way they lose. I don't imagine they're going to be able to hold them to nothing through this but they're, I don't know, there's such a heavy team that plays down low and the part that worries a little bit with just Skinner's, Skinner loses pucks a little bit from behind the net and a lot of their play is from down low. So it'll be interesting to see how he, how he handles that but at the same time Edmonton is seemed to be able to sink in so deep and hold off chances and even when there are shots they're from the outside where he has clean looks at them. So I mean it's, it's all you can ask for going into a final. Both teams are playing unbelievable and see how it starts in game one. Okay I, I want to ask you from, from a hockey players perspective, how insane was the McDavid goal? It's, it's just frustrating if I'm being honest with you because I'm watching it and I'm like, you know, I get that I'm not Conor McDavid but like, I can stick handle but the issue is I'm like, I would have never thought to pull it that far into my feet because there's a bit of space there. I would have, I honestly, I probably would have put my head down and just rammed it into his pad and gone through, he's getting in hopes someone else hammered in a rebound. But like he sees openings that other guys, it's not that they don't have the skill to do it, it's they literally don't see it. And that's the part that's so fun to watch. And you know, that's a lot of all like the young skill that's coming into the game like some of the stuff Bader does and like not saying that I had the skill they did but I never had the thought to try that. And that's the part of the new age coming in and McDavid kind of being the starter of that high pace, high skill is it's just amazing to watch how far it's come and honestly in a pretty short amount of years. Yeah, I mean, there's a real audacity to pull that off, right? Like, I mean, it's game seven of a cup final, you were going, I mean, sorry, game six of a conference final and you're trying to put this team away and you're pulling moves like that off. And if you're the PKers, I mean, can you say anything about, well, that's McDavid, like there's nothing else you can do, right? I mean, you can't be beating yourself up over it. Do you just kind of chalk that up to, well, that's number 97 doing that. Yeah, at some point, like, I feel like that's one where you're watching it on video after you're like, you know, you're like, how can you know, how could I have stopped that? And you're looking at it, you're like, maybe I do this, no, that one worked. Maybe that no, like, it's just it is what it is. Made a perfect move and a perfect shot and it goes in, like there's, you're not doing anything there. Yeah. After all that, he goes upstairs too. It's just like, geez. Well, I mean, if you're going to do it, you might as well do it, right? Landon, this has been awesome as always. Thanks for this. Yeah. Have a good one, guys. Oh, there he is. Landon for all joining us. That's a story about the water bottle. This is great. Who knew water bottle a water spill will create this much content for an entire week. What a great story, though, from Landon. The water bottle, the great spill of 2024, providing summer content here at Sportsnet 650. If only you'd done this, like, a month further out, we would have been in the dog days for real. For those that think it, somebody tweeted me today, it's just like, like, you should do this again. So they keep the, like, what, no, nobody's trying this again. This is not what I'm trying to say. It's not happening again. There are so many expensive electronics. It's crazy that nothing bad happened. Honestly, like, if it went down, yeah, if it would have gone down the one hole that's there, it would have fried the TV. The wide room. Definitely would have fried the TV and fried the mics. So I mean, it really went down perfectly. Yes. You really spilled that water the perfect way possible. It was just a brilliant, brilliant bit by me. Yup. Had it all planned out. Yeah. Made sure the bottle was in frame and everything. And for me, like, trying to scoop the water back into the bottle. That's funny. I know you weren't doing that, but it definitely seems like you were doing that. Yes. I was trying to, I was trying to carry water, like gourd miller for Peter Chirelli. Oh, hey, yo. But it is funny. Every time I watched that video and I watched it like maybe a hundred times now, like, it gets funnier every time. Like my sides were hurting watching it the other day yesterday. Sad just texts us in the group chat last night. Like, I've just been watching the video and like killing myself laughing. Like, it's been two days, man. There's something new you notice every time. Yeah. It's wonderful. It's so funny. Something different each time makes you laugh really hard. Yeah. It's like watching Anchorman over and over again. And you know, it's all so funny low key is Josh kind of frantically cleaning. He's like, his hands are like almost shaking, trying to get this done really quickly. Do not bring enough paper towels first time. He runs back out again. Oh, damn. That wasn't enough. Um, all right. Stan Rachow, Satyar Shah here on Goodox Central. There is a cup holder in the studio as well. There is one. Yes. Can't believe the boss of all people fixated a cup holder in here for me. Yeah, so much for like, so it's like, you know, if you want to complain to anybody about getting razz a bit too much, the boss is razzing you too. So it's like, there's really no where you can go on the stage. He's leading the charge apparently. Big brought in water wings, which you can see the video now on Twitter. I try to get them on. I'm off to my forearms. Well, yeah. Well, they're not made for sat sized arms. Yeah. Well, I think there were children size. That's the biggest thing. You got a pair of 26 inch pythons like, like Satyar Shah doing his best Hulk Hogan impression. All right. Hulk Hogan. More of a razor of moan guy. Razor of moan. Scott Hall was was legit. Rest in peace. He was great. It is Goodox Central. You're listening on Sports at 650. Hey, it's Big Nizar. Have your say and join me on The People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets week days three to four on Sportsnet 650 or wherever you get your podcast. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] Stan Rejo and Satyar Shah here in the KinTech studio. Final segment of the program. Yeah. [MUSIC] Lots of texts coming into the Dumbbar Lumber text message inbox. We'll try to answer some of your questions here. Yeah. A little bit of a precursor to Mailbag Friday. Dan Rejo, Satyar Shah, Nielsen and Langley. Man, landing sounds just like his dad on the radio. I know he loves hearing that too, but I'm sure he does. Another text. So we were talking about Alias Patterson. That was kind of one of the more interesting comments to come out of the morning hit from Rick Talkett with Hal Dodd, Mike Halford and Jamie Dodd. How much could a player like Alias Patterson realistically bulk up for durability next season? That's a good question because you can't just bulk up and expect to be quick. Yeah. And one of the things that you kind of hear from players talk about, I remember Aldi talking about this a lot too, about biomechanics is so important and your movements are so important that you can't just go out and gain 20 pounds and go skate. So if you're gaining weight over the off-season, what a lot of players try to do is do it while they're skating. So you're gradually increasing and getting stronger as you're skating so your body gets adjusted to it and that you make sure that your apply ability remains. But it's not easy to do. It's very hard for you to gain a significant amount of strength and weight and also keep your quickness and pace. It's one of the things I remember so much from being an avid fantasy football player for so many years. Like early on, I would say the mid-2000s, it would be seen as a good thing when a running back was like, "Hey, this guy so and so added 10 pounds this off-season." And it may have been seen as a good thing then. And then as time went on, people were like, "No, that's probably bad. Like you want, maybe not lose weight, but you want to gain mobility more than anything else." And Alandon sort of talked about that with Sam Reinhardt. Maybe one of the reasons he's having such a great year is he didn't focus on bulking up. He focused on improving his mobility as a player, improving, becoming more agile, doing those kinds of things that give you more space on this. Absolutely. All right. We're going to stop. Okay. So we can see your text messages. Yes. We left microphone on during the commercial break. Yes. That was my microphone. I left it on my mistake. Yes. So reach spilled water. I left the microphone on. Yes. But we all make mistakes. But yeah, nothing untoward was, you know, got to air. So I'm not too concerned about it. But Josh was checking the audio to make sure. It was pretty drowned out, but you can hear voices in the background, right? Our voices. All listening. Yeah. Our work. They're great. Hot mic of 2024. Yeah. The hot mic fiasco first, we had the water bottle fiasco, then we have the hot mic fiasco. Was this you doing your, your best Mark's vector impression and trying to take the heat off. Lubricastic with his, no, I'm not that good of a teammate. No. But yeah, so for those surrogate parent, a lot of Texas, like 12 texts and like a bunch of tweets. So yeah, made a mistake left the mic on, but, you know, make sure to take your mic off. Turn your mic off. Turn your mic off and better yet. Nothing against the lies Lindholm, but I really, really hope the Canucks don't re-sign him. Another text, are they using Zadorov to try and drive heronics, ask down? I think they're, I just think their, their interest in bringing back Zadorov is, is legitimate. Yeah. I think it's definitely what that is and it doesn't mean anything is close or imminent. Like I mentioned earlier too, but I don't think the Canucks are trying to squeeze one guy by doing something with a different player. I don't think that's how they're operating on this. I think it's very clear. They have a desire to keep Zadorov. So Doraov, as you mentioned, has a desire to stay. Can they try to get something done here relatively quickly? Or is this for sure going to free agency? And there seems to be, perhaps from the player himself, his side, maybe a want to have a clear picture of where things are going with Vancouver. It's, it's getting more and more deep into the off-season preparations. And the more we hear Canucks are, they have an idea of where Myers is going to be. And three million, both sides want to get this done. We hear the news about Hironic and Linholm today. Now today's news on Hironic, or sorry, Zadorov and Linholm doesn't mean that both of these players are going to get signed. But as we talked about in the round table and as we've talked about for much of today, it gives you a sense that the two sides maybe know that there is the potential of bridging the gap and getting something done. And that's the way I took today's news, especially with Zadorov, with Linholm, I think it might be a little bit tougher because he could legitimately get like 56 million on the open market. Like, I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility right now because he is the best true center on the market. Yeah, I can see, I mean, I can see, I think the range for him in free agency is going to be 51 to 56. Yeah. 50, you know, we'll see if it gets to that range somewhere like that. And I think that's where if the connects are in on him, it tells you they're playing in that area because you don't feel like you have a chance or you're not trying to get a sky sign if you think that range is ridiculous. And the other question is like, is that prudent for Vancouver to spend that much money on him? I mean, we talked about, hey, why the connects are trying to do it. The question is the level, like I've said before, like I'd rather spend, if I'm spending that much money, I'd rather find a higher end winger. But it's also one of those like, hey, I can say it academically. Yeah. But you have to be able to find that guy. So how long is it going to take for you to find a higher level difference maker? If there isn't a great option out there for you is the best then option to pay what you have to pay to get Lindholm done? Or is it keep that space open, try to find maybe a alternative, maybe a cheaper one on a short term deal like you did with bluegrin suitor to start last year and then maybe figure it out in season next year is that a better way to plan this out rather than earmarking seven plus million dollars over the next seven seasons for Elias Lindholm. Because yeah, you may not get what Lindholm can give you next year, but it keeps your options open down the line. Because if you sign Lindholm, guess what? Your three centers for the next, what, six years are going to be these guys, seven years actually because JT Miller's contract is just kicking in. Well the floor of your team is raised significantly because if you have those three players signed for long term, like you're fine. The question really comes down to what level are you getting from Lindholm for that you're sealing to be significantly higher. The Canucks with Lindholm, Patterson and Miller for the next handful of years and with having Hughes and some of the other pieces, they're going to be a playoff team with that squady year in a year out. The question is how do you put yourself into being a cup contender with that much money tied up to those three guys. And there is a pathway to it. You can do it, right? It's just like anything is really difficult. Like anytime I try to break down those Canucks off season and I do it like every single night when I get home and during a day to be looked at things all the time, but I'm always trying to look at okay, what else can the Canucks do and there are things they can do. But at the end of the day, like everything's going to have some risk to it. Like there's no, like we can sit here and say, yeah, we'll go find that winger. But like who's a high end winger you're going to necessarily get. Like you can't get an eggchas probably because you don't match up. If Gensil is set on going to the States or somewhere else and he's not coming here, well he's not in the equation. And it's not like you can wait two or three years for the perfect opportunity to arise. You have to be able to improve your team and move forward. Yeah, you can't be Ron Francis. You know, you can't just wait. You can't just wait. One especially because of the age the Canucks players are heading into now. You have JT sign like if this was two years ago, okay, you have a bit more time and patience. You can kind of let it play out a little bit. You can't really afford to let it play out too much. Yeah. But you kind of have to take advantage of these next handful of years with this group. So there aren't many great options like Lindholm. After you get past, you know, Stan Coase, who's probably re-signing somewhere in Florida, probably with the Tampa Bay Lightning, Ryan Hart's not getting a free agency. I would really, really doubt that he does. I mean, March is so probably ends up staying in Vegas. I mean, we talk about these things all the time about how guys end up staying, especially star level players end up staying with their current groups. Sure, Ryan Hart could maybe get 10 plus million on the open market, but does he just settle for nine and a half over eight years with the Florida Panthers? Probably like it's these top end players, the ones that are still currently set to hit the free agent market on July one, like I just, most of them, I just don't even see hitting the market. A lot of them, I'm with you. I don't think will. And in terms of, okay, let's say you want to go for the lower end guys a little bit, but even those guys, you have to give something up to get them. So if you're talking about toilet with TerraVina, and he's 29 years old, you're not getting him on a one year deal, most likely. Okay, so Tyler Bertuzzi, how much do you want to pay him? 29. He's not signing for one year again. He's probably getting like maybe a little bit more like, it's probably around the same average annual value of five million, but maybe a little bit more term this time. But again, he's 29. How comfortable are you giving him that much money, right? Anthony Manta 29. How much do you want to give him? No, I'm not. I'm not interested at all. Okay. All right. So Adam Henry, he's 34. Had 51 points, 24 goals. Does he sign one year? Probably not. But do you want to sign a 30, 40 year old to a two or three year deal? I like Henry actually. But do you do that for him? I mean, if it's like two years at five million per, I'd consider it. Okay. So, and then we have Chandler Stevenson, who's going to cost probably about six, right? Yeah, I don't know because Sam, Ryan Hart, aren't the options and let's say Marsha so it goes back. And then you're looking at guys like Matt, do Shane, he's 33 again, is do Shane signing a one year deal again? Or is he signing? So my point here is anything you want to do this offseason comes with a level of risk. It's either you're signing one of these guys who are wingers to a multi year contract and to their 30s. Or you're signing a guy to Lindholm and to multi year contract and to their 30s. Or you're trading significant assets like your futures to get nature, which means like Keramaki and a future first potentially. Look at all these options for you trying to make your team better like it. A lot of it. Every single one of these moves comes with a level of risk. Yes. It comes out to which one you feel more comfortable with or you're comfortable with Lindholm or you're comfortable with trying to overspend on a winger like a terra vine and like a Matt do Shane for instance to fully even like to fully I like to fully what if it's four years times five? Yeah. Are you comfortable giving him a four year deal at 32? Yeah. Probably not. Right. Like I like these players. Again, it comes out to how much you want to give them. So there isn't any path with connects can take this offseason that comes with minimal risk unless they want to be bad, but then the risk is your team's bad. Yeah. Well, the idea that you could maybe have more of a bandaid option and then go into the season looking to add as the year comes on. I think that's something you could look at and say, you know what, let's just wait for the first wave or two of free agency and then let's go pluck a bunch of guys that are left on the outside. Yeah. On a couple of short term, you're one year, two million, one year, two and a half and then you see if that works and that's a way to approach it as well. They might have to do that anyways. Right, if they signs the door of Lynn Holman Myers, like you're already sort of pretty cash strapped to fill out the rest of your roster. But that also means that you have to be comfortable not having your roster generally set until late in the summer. Yeah. And generally they want to get their stuff together. They want to be able to give their coaches a plan for how they're trying to build a team out. Okay. It's one thing to add a pew suitor in August. Yeah. It's another trying to find your running mate for Pedersen in August. It's another trying to find the D partner for Queen Hughes in August. There's an okay solution to go into the next season with Nils Holglonder as the running mate for Pilius Pedersen. I don't think so. No. Yeah. That's not to me. It's like I think they was pretty much admitted that they needed to upgrade there. Yeah. And I think Holglander perhaps can grow into that more consistently. I think he's best suited to kind of run his own line down the lineup a little bit, you know, and we'll see how that all kind of fits in. But if it's Pedersen and Holglander as your dual heading to next season, to me, that's not enough. This text, signing Linholm gives you the ability to trade Pedersen if there's a sneaky offer on the table before the season starts, don't underestimate the management to assess the needs of the team and make a bold move like Pedersen to Utah. That's one text coming in. I would be shocked if only as Pedersen got traded by the Vancouver Canucks. I'll just, that's the only way I'll respond to that text. Yeah. It's one of those things. And you know what? Because they're not trading him this off season. It's probably not happening next off season. Yeah. Right. And here's the thing though, let's say it gets to a point where both sides say, yeah, let's get to a trade. That probably means that he had a really tough season. And how is it going to be to have a player on the market having a tough season, making 11.6. You know what I mean? In terms of truly exploring a Pedersen trade beyond this season, it's a no win situation. I mean, things have gone horribly wrong. And I think we all need to really chill out on the Pedersen stuff. Yeah. And I think next season, you'll see a player bounce back, you'll see a player be able to get a lot better because this might be like the low point considering the expectations. Like he's had worse stretches as a canuck. Yes. But none of it has mattered as much as it did down the stretch and in the postseason. This text, not sure why you think Linholm is returning, he's out of here. Daniel and Campbell, if they sign Linholm, I'm going to lose some faith in management after such huge steps forward. So I get the hesitation, the worry of signing an Elias Linholm to a 50 plus million dollar contract because realistically, that's what it's going to take on a seven year term. So I get the inherent risk that you take on with that. It's just when you look at the scenarios available to the Vancouver Canucks, when you look at the potential of this offseason, the names that are available, what it's going to take to get them, what their willingness may or may not be to join Vancouver as a free agent, then you start to wonder, okay, at what point is Elias Linholm the best option for the Vancouver Canucks? And the thing we've talked so much about is raising the ceiling on the team. Yeah. They are level players. And like Linholm was a start level player, they got, now I know his production wasn't where he wanted to be, what you saw in the postseason, what it was, right? And I think ultimately that's where the Canucks are, even with Linholm, we need them to add somebody else to look at this team and say, okay, this can be a team we can view on the outside as a team that is a legitimate contender, right? There's still kind of one player on top of Linholm that you want them to add, right? Yes. And I don't know if that player is a big name player. To me, it's somebody who can play like David Posternock still performed in Boston this year with like, you know, Charlie Coyle and Jake Dobresk as his main line mates. Yeah. Well, that's Charlie Coyle and Dobresk, which is better than Hoaglander and McCabe, you know, right? And I think that's the thing. And to your point, I think the bar needs to be, yeah, of course you love to see them add against all type, like, of course you do, but if you even add somebody who's capable of scoring 25 consistently and playing up there, that's, I think that would make your, you a better team up front than you were last year, right? Yeah. Like it would make you a better team. The thing I wonder about when you spend that much money is like, what's the quality of your blue line going to be compared to last season? Well, if you lose her own it, it's downgraded. Well, yeah. I mean, you're losing her own, I can call. Now you replace those two players, but like, can you, can you blue line still be about as strong overall heading to next season if you're losing her own, I doubt it. But you might be slightly better up front. Yeah. But again, you're kind of like, are you still a team? Again, it depends on the rest of the league too, but like, I think it can work because you have a legitimate number one D. But who's like, do you have, and maybe Heronic isn't even this guy, but I mean, even the Oilers have echolm and Bouchard playing at an incredibly high level, right? Or as much as we talked about their D and how nurses and up to snuff, how Cody CC isn't up to snuff, like both of the teams in the Stanley Cup final have aces in the hole. They have elite top pairs. And that's what Heronic and Hughes were this year, a big part of the Canucks success. If you put Hughes and his main partner is question mark, what does that look like next year? I don't know. Is it Tyler Myers? Probably not. Is it Alex Carrier, Noah Juleson, Matt Roy, like all of those players can be nice in theory. None of them are as good as Philopronic and I like, I still want to have want to see the Canucks have a elite top pair on D. And if you don't have that, I'm not sure you can. Any like, there's no way around the idea that you're going to be a little bit worse on the back end next year. They were talking about maybe splitting those guys up though, even. Yeah. Remember, Alvin and them were saying maybe Heronic and Hughes on their own pairs next season? That's true. So I don't know if I even love that idea. But if that's what you're looking to do, then you're not getting that elite top pair no matter what. Right. Exactly. Right. So then the Zach, and was that maybe an indication of them trying to say maybe their way of saying maybe Heronic's not coming back? Yeah. As in like preparing everybody for like, hey, he doesn't need to be like, it's one of those things like semantic, you're not semantics where, but you're kind of laying a marker a little bit. You're saying, well, they may not play together anyways. Yeah. So what happens is like, well, we were already looking to find somebody else to play with Quinn, right? So it kind of aligns in terms of your messaging on players. I just, why would you choose to be not okay with overpaying Philopronic, but be okay with overpaying Nikita Zadorov and Elias Lindholm, who maybe aren't quite at the level that Philopronic currently is at, right? We're paying Lindholm and Zadorov rather than maybe overpaying Philopronic a little bit. But it's also one of those things where Heronic's also somebody that is a asset for you. Right. Next, I don't have a ton of assets. So in terms of making trades, we talked about this, right? Like the one asset you have is Heronic. If you bring back Lindholm and Zadorov, maybe you could use Heronic as an asset to get something else to help your forward group. Right. Or even your back end. Because I've thrown this out there in the past, right? Like if you can't get Heronic signed, are you against acquiring Sean Dursey in a pick from Utah? If that's on the table. Yeah. And Dursey had a good season. I mean, he's not going to ask for, like he's a righty defenseman too, like it's not going to be cheap to sign him. It's probably going to be around between four and five million, right? Which is the same we were talking about righty defense, but he's younger, right? And maybe he can get an extra pick in addition to that too. I don't know about a first, but he can get a second and maybe a later pick or something, you know? All of a sudden you're getting the player you want, younger, locked in longer term at a smaller number for you, and he's a better Puckmover too, Dursey, right? He kind of fits the mold. To me, that would be a nice solution if they can't sign Heronic. And then now you have a little bit of money left over to sign that free agent forward that you need for Patterson. I would, I would actually, like, I've looked into it a little bit more. I'd love for the Canucks to be in on Capo Caco if he shakes loose at a New York. That too. And one of the things that Canucks are looking at is RFA types. Yeah. Like guys who are kind of like haven't quite hit yet, that they feel like maybe come in here and hit. And again, when you have more limited cap space, you kind of have to look at those things too. Yeah. And if you're looking to find that star player, sure, you'd love to be able to go on sign one, but you also have to have to try to find some guys. And Caco would kind of fit the bill of, do you get a bit of a distressed asset and turn that into something for yourself? You can also just sign Nick Blankenberg as I know, Sat would be on board with. Yeah, I do. I love Nick. I'm all for Nick Blankenberg. There could be as well some interesting guys that don't get qualified by their current clubs. And I saw the daily face off, had a couple of names floating around today. One was Henry Yokey Haryu at a Buffalo. So there could be more names, well, there will be more names that get added to the free agent list. Come July one. And that's going to add more to this conversation. We appreciate you the listener for continuing with the questions. We'll have a mailbag tomorrow as well. Plus Yannick Hanson will join us at five o'clock as we close out the week on Canucks Central for Costa and Josh, my co host, sat. I'm Dan. You've been listening to Canucks Central.
