Radio Miraya
2752: Nairobi Peace Talks: Taking stock of the mediation process?
[Music] >> The round table. >> A very warm welcome to the round table with me. Today we are broadcasting a special edition of the round table transmitted remotely from Nairobi by Sunny Martin and the team and facilitated by me in the studio base in Juba. Our topic of discussion today is to my A&P initiative, one month on taking stock and looking ahead. It is exactly one month today, Saturday, seeing the high level mediation process for South Sudan was launched in Nairobi. The launch on 9th of May, 2024, was greeted with great anticipation. Sunny and his team and his guests will review the past one month and dive into what lies hate. Sunny can you introduce to us our guests who are there with you and tell us what has been happening for the last one month and now as we look ahead of what is yet to come. Sunny, over to you. >> Thank you so much, Garang, and listen to us. We will open to you as usual. In the second hour of this discussion, we can call us on our studio line. You can also visit our Facebook page. We also live during this round table coming to your life from Nairobi. With me here, I have three guests who are already sitting with me here. We wait for one more to join us. I have Dr. Ayak Cholden. I like who is from the civil society. Stakeholders group and we will be hearing more from how has the discussion continues. First of all, Dr. Ayak, thank you so much for joining us during a business schedule yesterday. I know you must be so tired. Good morning and welcome to this program. >> Good morning, good morning. It's great to be back on Radio Miraya. It has been an exhaustive couple of weeks and I'm looking forward to share all that with you. >> Thank you so much. >> Yes, we also have Ed Moni Akane, who is the Executive Director of Community Empowerment for Progress Organization and he is also representing the civil society. Stakeholders, as they are known here, Ed Moni Akane, thank you so much for joining us. I know there are so many meetings going on in the sideline. Welcome to the round table. >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Sonia Martin. Good morning to listeners of Miraya FM. As my sister said, it's been a busy week that we're engaging on searching a pathway for peace and stability in our country. So, yeah, I'm really here to share my opinion with the citizens. Okay, we are waiting for Richard in October, who is here ending this minor peace initiative representing the South Sudan Council with churches and also a member of the whole here where the discussion is happening. Like I said, please, you can visit our Facebook page, drop your comment there, or you can call us on 091, 206, 279 or 091, 206, 2950. Those are all our lines. You can call us later on and ask your questions about this peace process here in Nairobi, Kenya. First of all, let's begin with Ed Moni Akane. Yesterday, in the same hallway we are sitting, there was an interaction yesterday in the evening hours between the delegates from both sides to these talks, and the Foreign Minister of Norway, and it was a very big event. And first of all, before we begin hearing from you, I will close back to my colleague, Yach Garang in Juba, to just play for us what they can principle secretary for Foreign Affairs, Dr. Abram Kori Singoy said about some of the key milestone that has been achieved so far like my colleague. Garang said one month down the line. Yes, Yach Garang, maybe you can hear from Singoy. Coming to you soon is just playing soon. A day shy of a month now, on the 9th of May, his Excellency President William Ruto at the behest of his brother, President Ki, and in the presence of about 10 other heads of states from the continent launched the Pumayini Initiative, an initiative that seeks to bring together the critical sectors of the South Sudan society around a table to such for durable peace. I'm pleased to say that barely a month later several milestones have been achieved, including a declaration of commitments to the process, various confidence building measures, and critically, clarity around the issues that need to be taken forward through policy, legislative and constitutional approaches. Your Excellency, I am confident, the Kenyan government is confident that this process will yield an outcome that will result in more stable and perfect South Sudan society. That is it, my colleague, Sonny? Yes, yes. Let's begin with Dr. Ayak Chol. Ki milestone has been made so far over the last barely a month since the launch at the Statehouse here in Nairobi, and also a lot of commitment, a document will sign the declaration of commitment by the parties, and what is your reaction to this kind of a statement coming from the host? You have been here for over a month now. Thank you once again, Sonny Martin, I would say the statements made by the PS, Dr. Abraham Korea, are a continued expression of Kenya's genuine commitment to peace and stability in South Sudan. And really, it is a testament of Kenya's continued goodwill for the people of South Sudan, and that is evident throughout the history, not just the CPA, but also during the time of refuge here in Kenya, the bilateral relations between the two countries span far and wide. And as a civil society, I felt that message spoke to the people, and it showed Kenya's commitment to the people of South Sudan through her government. But I also want to say that the milestones, the three C's, the commitment, the confidence building, and the clarity on issues that he mentioned very clearly. The commitment, the declaration of commitment, I would say, has been initialed by all the parties. That is indeed positive. It has seen all parties reaffirm commitment to the cessation of hostilities that were signed not just during the arses, but during the Rome process. So that's an added advantage. However, when it comes to some of the items that we wanted as civil society to see immediately operationalized, I think we need to see more. Because again, it is committing operationalizing these commitments that translates into confidence because trust and confidence building take time. And so for items like the release of those that have been arbitrarily detained, for those who have been detained for associating with some of the actors who are active participants in this process as a show of goodwill. Really, it is to urge our government to expedite their release as a show of goodwill and adherence to the commitment, but also to foster the confidence that is being the seeds of which have been planted, but I yet to germinate. As for the clarity of issues, I would say this is the agenda setting phase, and we have now reached a point where it is very clear what the issues are along the four thematic areas, which I'm happy to share on later. But just in a nutshell, the focus is around issues to do with governance, issues to do with legislature and policy and the constitution around key thematic areas of economy, justice, governance and polity, and the economic and social issues. So there is absolute clarity on what the issues that have been ailing South Sudanese are. Now the biggest challenge for all of us here is to find innovative ways to translate those issues into actionable recommendations, and then a new mechanism to implement the challenge has always been implemented. You shall be talking about that later on. Yes, Edmond Ya Khani, the services, commitment, confidence, clarity, and also the P.S. city that key milestone has so far been achieved barely a month, and this will yield a stable South Sudan. And remember, if I can just attach this during the launch here in Nairobi on the 9th, that was on a Saturday. First of all, the Zambian president said that if this conflict in South Sudan, it affects the whole region. First of all, what is your take on the statement made yesterday here by the Kenyan officials? My take is that the statement of the Kenyans is confirming that Kenyans are serious about these issues, and Kenyans wish to see outcomes that respond to the aspiration of our citizens back home, which is mainly availability of peace and stability so the citizens can cope up with their lives. So that's really the position of their Kenyans, this number one. But within this statement that made by the P.S. is assured in South Sudan is that whoever failed, Kenya is not committed to deliver peace through these processes, that person is lying. Kenya is really committed, as you have mentioned, the truth is that they want to see peace prevailed in South Sudan, and of course, you are aware that the driver of the mediation in Kenyan peace process is a retired left in general. There is a leader who is known to South Sudanese, who knows most of the people who are here from both parties, being the government of Hindu position. So he's aware of the context of South Sudanese, he's aware of political attitudes of South Sudanese. So Kenya is assuring the world and the continent and the community that Kenya is serious to see is stable South Sudan because, as you have said, based on the statement of the president of Zambia, that any impact of conflict, that's what affects only South Sudanese, it affects the region, it affects the immediate neighbors of Kenya. And we have seen refugees here in Kenya, so Kenya is a sovereign impudent of the political instability in the country, which is a result of refugees in Kenya. But also Kenya do care about a stable South Sudan because any stable South Sudan, it has direct implications on Kenya, and sometimes conflict that within your neighborhood, it may transfer to your country. We have seen what happens in Sudan, it has affected us in South Sudan, it may affect Egypt, so that's where Zambia is saying, whatever conflict is happening in any member state of Africa, it affects all Africans. So it affects the continent. And also your mother might have very clear from the president of Zambia by saying, look here, at a current moment, people never win wars, people only win battle. So it's also a political elixir, how much you are discontented, violence is an option because violence will never yield any peace and stability at a current moment. What you need to do is to sit on the mediation table with a constructive mind and make sure that you really have a purpose that you want to deliver something that made fast there. And meet fast the aspiration of your citizens, which is a comparative analysis between holding the peace talks in Arabic and holding the peace talks in Rome. You are aware in Rome these current peace talks took almost four years without any concrete outcome compared to an Arabic. What only we have in Rome is that the parties signed the declaration of principles, but at least I know people have moved beyond the declaration of principles. What is it, fast? People are able to really look into the in-depth of the declaration of principle in Rome for the last four years. And people are able to evaluate the revitalization agreement in the eye of the government, and government have a very strong delegation. People have to tell the government very clear that, look here, the problem is that you, as an incumbent government, you lack political will to implement the revitalization agreement. The agreement is very beautiful in nature, but the problem is that the people who are tasked to implement the agreement are actually the spoilers of peace and stability in the country. What normalize terms of hijackers, people who are hijacking the agreement. So, and this is very clear for me, that's one thing I'd like to make it very clear. And secondly, here in Nairobi, people are speaking to real issues. When you see people right here in the delegation, I can have a few of them as an example. For example, if you see the way how General Wiyi expressed himself, how Stephen Buell expressed himself, the way how Pagana expressed himself, people like Costima, Niba, Cyrillo, Itang, express themselves. Just speaking to the reality of the underlying factors that have led the country to an unstable situation now, and in the eye of the government officials, and the government officials were able to count and react. So, for me, the spirit of dialogue towards having a real peace and stability is very high in Nairobi, and what have we achieved in Nairobi? In less than one month, I would really say it's only 21 days, we're able to reach consensus on matters associated with political governance in the country, with matters associated with security arrangement in the country, matters associated with justice, matters associated with economic and social issues. And as a civil society, we pursue them both being the opposition and the government that, okay, since the question is around trust and confidence, then let us have a time to discuss, and Dr. Wiyi is going to join us. So, for me, the reality is that I've seen so many people undermine the process of Nairobi, the person Nairobi is leading us somewhere. So, we'll find out why people don't believe what's happening here in Nairobi. Let's go to the second speaker yesterday during the interaction of the foreign minister of Norway. Yes, my colleague who is sitting in Juba, Garang is going to be playing for us the speech from Dr. Serena Hitteng, who is the Secretary for External Relation of the Reliance Film, and he also made a very brief statement. That was also echoed during the talks. Yes, Garang, can we hear from Dr. Hitteng? All right, playing soon. We have come here to address the root causes of the crisis of our country. We have come here with open minds. We have been well received by the government of Kenya. We have all taken care of, and this time around, we believe that we are going to put an end to this crisis and with the help of your government and the family countries in Europe and the rest of the world. We are going to show maturity. We are going to show seriousness that we put this country first. We put our people first. We are not going to look at our own individual interest. For the first time, we are negotiating about establishing a clear future for our country. We are not talking about power sharing like previous agreements. We are not discussing with positions we are going to occupy. We are discussing how to put our country on a firm competition that will bring to an end, and that will give us a future for our children and for our people. Thank you very much. Over to you, Sunny. We are not here fighting for positions. We are not here fighting for share in the government. We want to make sure that we discuss the root causes that has put ourselves down to where we are. We are showing maturity. We are very serious. We are putting the interest of our people first, and many, many things. And sitting in the hall here, is that what is being discussed in the hall? Or what we are hearing from him is just like a Soga Kottet statement. Sunny Martin, I can assure you that I do not. Dr. Ashirino Hittang was actually quite accurate in his depiction of the conversation in the room. You see, it is refreshing because this is my second process where I am also representing civil society, and it is truly refreshing how this process is truly people-centered. It is not about power sharing. It is not about political accommodation. It is about how do we address these genuine issues that we have South Sudanese have gotten ourselves into. There is a sense of collective responsibility and ownership of the problem, which I feel is quite different from how things were. I really want to add to what my colleague Edmond has just said. And this is the benefit of this forum that we are in right now. We realize our civil society, and we always complain about how peace processes incentivize the warring actors. And this is because our people do not have a genuine way of addressing their grievances. There is no nonviolent form of resolving disputes internally. And so they go into these platforms. They take arms and they go into these platforms, which incentivize them. But what we know throughout the 2030 years of peace processes all over the world is that inclusive processes result into inclusive outcomes. And so it does not come as a surprise to me that the room process could only go so far because of how many people were in the room and the actors that were in the room. The bigger stakeholders to the peace and stability of South Sudan is its citizens. And so as civil society and the different stakeholders, the academia and the religious actors and the persons with disabilities, all of us in our diversity, when we come here, our job really is to make sure that it is people that are at the heart of the conversations. You know, as you pre-empted that peace, instability in South Sudan equates to instability in the region. We can see how our neighbors, the frontline countries, we can see how Ethiopia is not doing so well. We can also see how Sudan is falling off its seams. We can also predict that with the poorest border between Sudan and South Sudan, the huge influx of refugees and arms and so many illicit trades. It is just a matter of time before it reaches, you know, the Kenyan corridors. And so it is really also in the interest of regional peace and stability that not just Kenya, but the region and the world as a whole comes together in putting off this fire that we've really started on our own. Interestingly, the question of the root cause has been at the heart of all conflicts in South Sudan. And also interestingly enough, there have never really been true avenues of addressing the root causes. You realize throughout our history with Sudan, there was the Jazur al-Mushkila, the root cause. And then we came into our independence internally within the government. There was still the unaddressed issues of the root cause. And so the mediation, and this is to really to the mediation and all the stakeholders and parties in the room, that finding avenues to really address this elephant in the room, which is the root cause, would really be the key that unlocks all these mess that we're in. Okay. Yes, Dr. Garang, let me find out from you. We also had some speeches yesterday from here. The head of government delegation, Ambassador Albino Matam, also made a speech yesterday that caught the attention of everybody in the whole canoe here from him and get comment from Yakhani and my three guests as we wait for Richard Bishop in October to join us and talk about the issue of a confident building among the parties here. Sure, Sonny Matam and the guests there with our team in the studio, we are playing this cliff shortly. Yes, our present year demonstrate what went wrong in our country, and us being here is a proven the government of South Sudan. We are willing to change and commit ourselves for what went wrong. We will not have been here if it wasn't a commitment of this excellency, Dr. Chidram Bhutto, and we can tell you in which you can take it back to the people of Norway. This will be the last time people of South Sudan to negotiate outside out of South Sudan. We believe we are going to commit ourselves, one and forever, to change the perception and narrative of what went wrong between us, between our brother and Caesar. Thank you very much. Sonny Obateo and the guests. Yes, we are honored to be joined by Bishop Enochtome, who have just joined us right now in this discussion. We'll be hearing from him as he settles down. First of all, he has Edmoniakhani. First, your comment and for our listeners who may be hearing some kind of sound or noise, we are not far from the airport here in Arobi, and also we are sitting next to the park. You can enjoy the ambiance of the sound at the background as we listen to this panelists here. First of all, good morning Bishop and welcome to this program. Thank you. Yes, Edmoniakhani, hearing from the head of government delegation, Ambassador Albino, saying that this is the last time South Sudan is going to be negotiating outside South Sudan. So does it mean that we are nearing a total peace in South Sudan where at least people will now be talking about development, agriculture, infrastructure, education, health, and IT, tourism? Yes, we, I may not say total peace. Why? Because we have still other groups that hold out. The groups that were led by General Thomas Reylo, and they were led by General Simon Catuich and others, political, we have what we call a discontented position like a manual, which is political, doesn't have a military wing. Still we need to continue searching for peace. And Sonny Martin, this is what I've learned in Kenya, I keep on telling politicians that our political elites have taken a stand where they want to see peace in South Sudan in pieces, or what they call such for peace in pieces in South Sudan because it seems our political elites have this position that, you know, if what I say is not considered then the person who is listening to me is not in a position of reconciling or accepting to jointly work with me. And that's what holds out some few groups that feel that Nairobi is not a venue that people can discuss root causes, Nairobi is not a venue that it is safe. And now it's proven that Nairobi is a venue that is really good for negotiation. Among ourselves, South Sudanese, as we say, we respond to the root causes in an honest and genuine manner. At the same time, our safety and security is taken care of by the Kenyan government. So don't know what I'd like to say, this is the issue of trust and confidence among the political leaders. But one thing that I'd like to proceed further, Sunny Martin, to share with you, is that when I listen to the statement of Albino, I feel sincerely that now the spoilers that are there in the government are now at risk. And when I say the spoilers, what are the spoilers? The spoilers are those who have taken time in diverting resources that are supposed to be meant for the implementation of the agreement, for other issues. The spoilers are those who communicate negative messages to the principles. And here, by the principle, I refer to the members of the presidency. The spoilers are those who sponsor defections among the parties in the agreement when we start rolling out the R-axis. So unless they have to change the political attitudes, because the challenge that we have, whether for the government here in Nairobi or for the opposition here in Nairobi, if we sign any document that we may say this document is mounted as an agreement over to my any initiative in Nairobi, the challenge we have is really change of political attitudes among our political elites being in the government or being in the opposition. Yes, we can hear opposition who are saying here, like all citizens say, we are not for power sharing. But to be honest with you, Sunny Martin, a politician without a chair is not playing a politics, always politicians like to see. I do agree, we have really looked at the underlying factors, or what do you call the root causes that have created the political instability in the country. But the reality comes is, will our politicians change the attitudes? We have had the same sentiments when we are negotiating the agreement before it's been revitalized. But at the moment where politicians sit in the seat of the government, they forgot the citizens. What they do is that first, they look at what favors them, what made their interest. And this is a challenge for opposition here in Nairobi, they need to work the talk once we sign an agreement here and they join the government. I hope that they will not prefer to sit in v8s and forget the service delivered to our citizens. That's one thing I'd like to make clear. And for the government, if there's a spoiler among the delegation of the government here in Nairobi or in Juba, my prayer, my prayer, is that this time round, let the prayer of the God walk in a sense that those who will categorize them as spoilers will never cast them. They will never cast them to die, but they will cast them not to be part of the government because they have decided to subject us to all the political instability, the economic instability we have in the country. I know, I do blame the leadership, I do blame the leaders. And in the middle, I blame the leaders that they have taken time enough to listen to rumors than the truth. And they have taken enough to work with the people who like to see political instability in the country too much. Time has come for his excellency president and his excellency vice president and other vice presidents. When they're sitting in the v8s, with their motorquets, can they look around the roads that they're passing through their citizens who are walking, looking for food, collecting water, bottles. They can then look at the people who are on the streets who are trying to clean the road in order to un-living. When, before they jump to the v8s, have they missed the tea, have they missed breakfast? When they're sitting in the office, have they missed lunch? Is there supper there? So for me, it's a time to test the leadership of the country. Otherwise, also, actually the leaders of the country will be categorized as a spoiler if they don't translate the outcome of Tomain. And remember, Tomain is what he did, say hope. When a politician failed to deliver hope, this politician is exactly, we can describe as a Judas carrios, we can describe as a zakayos, as a resource is concerned. We can describe this particular political leader, whoever he is, whatever type of resulting, he is not for South Sudan. He is a visitor, and he deserves to quit South Sudan in a non-violent way. Okay, if you fail, let go take him to the grave as quick as faster, so that we enjoy the struggle for our independence. Yes, Bishop Enoch-Tomain, thank you so much for joining us. We started the program by actually hearing from the speakers who had spoken yesterday in the same hallway we are sitting. I want to get you a general overview of what transpired yesterday here about this foreign minister of Norway who came and met, gave a very strong statement yesterday. What is your take on what transpired yesterday here, the speeches that were made? Thank you, sorry Martin, where I am from the region, foreign minister, is that they are going to support us, as they have been doing so since 1974. This is like assurance of support to us, provided that we should have good governance. We should observe human rights and transparency, and other points, I took note, but I don't know where I throw my notebook. So this assurance that they are ready to support us if we can work for a genuine peace, and we really want to thank them for that. Having worked with the Northern Chinese aid, I know that NCA and all the region institutions are very, very serious. They are committed because they suffered like us. I was telling my colleagues during breakfast time that Norway was doing a time hit while I was given as a gift to the Swedish. And we asked them, how did you eventually liberate yourself? They will liberate themselves in 1905. They always celebrate 1905 as the year of independence. So they are actually our friends because they suffered like us under colonial rule. So South Sudanese and the Norwegians are in the same basket when it comes to conflict. They have no... But the difference is they managed to get out as quick as possible. Well, it was not that easy. We went to the place where they planned for the liberation movement in the farm. They were even signing, because they were illiterate. Only the church was able to read and write, you know, because of the Bible. So they were signing the document like this commitment with the thumb. But now we are signing with the pen, you know. We have been signing with the technology. So we are even advanced in terms of technology. But they were primitive, but they united and they got liberated. So they become part of Troika because of that. Because in the end, it was the U.S. which liberated them. It was U.K. as well as Norway. They would become Troika since that time, Second World War, 1945. So, number two, after we ended with the Foreign Minister, the Unimes stayed with us behind. I'm sure you saw them. And they were asking exactly why I would not able to discuss the issues inside the country. With our own resources, instead of waiting for foreign funding and so on. We are an oil-exporting country. Where is our money? And we really felt a challenge. We have been saying, "If you give us money, we will make retirement packages for this, our people, the elders, to go home, so that it will give change to the young people." Because in government, whoever, in the parliament, in the government, they should really go home and rest. But we should not send them away, empty-handed. But when people hear that they don't feel happy, because you are asking somebody to be sent home with a package and they will say, "Okay, we have a job to do." The people still love us. Yeah, of course, that is true. But some of them are not very old even to think. They are no longer in good health. They are not even in villages. Well, they always sit under the tree and leave the young people to do hunting and farming. And they will start the young who can ask them for visit. Otherwise, yes. So they know if we exhaust them until they die, like everybody is saying. No, we should send them one or another to the grave, not for them out. So we should make retirement packages. Now, this morning, I made some analysis of the situation. These two money initiative is not inclusive yet. We have to bring on both those who have not come. But we also have to bring on both our business people. This is the name of this guy who was telling us, "Look, South Africa did it." And my sister here said, "Well, it's true. We don't have major class. We don't have business men like South Africa." Now, when I was reflecting on this, I was looking around. We are not brought on both our business people. So you want the process to be inclusive? Yeah, we must bring on both. Why do you want the business to be brought on? Because they have the money. They have the sources. They have the money. They don't control the market. So instead of looking for money outside the country, we look at money from owners and sisters. For example, in the argument, we have a very good lady. Who are with us in the argument? She should come. They're same with those who are in the market. If they can be invited immediately. So that they can come and help us to get the resources. To implement this, for example, confident building measures, which we have identified. Our political leaders, both in the government and opposition, of course, they should consider the issue of justice and law and order. This is what should the issue of security, security sector reform, as well as the issue of justice. There are some of us who will focus on the economy, and that's why business people must be here. Because you cannot discuss economy while people who are in the market are not here. This is illogical. They know the market, how it works. I'm a bishop, I don't know how the market works. Even the discipline society, they know nothing about business. We should bring business people here to tell us how to raise money locally. Even the oil money. Where is it going? Yeah. So to me, I think the process is okay, except that it's not equalism. Just like their own was confined to all the government and so on. So to make it inclusive, we should get business people here, as soon as possible. Okay. As Yachigaran, like we said, there have been being, since the beginning of this discussion, yesterday also here, the center of what focus was the Norwegian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Espen, who made his statement talking about the disappointment. Because there were hopes that, after South again, it's independent, things were going to move on and there was going to be development, prosperity. Let's hear from him. Sunny, I would like to welcome the retired bishop in October from the year and to all our listeners who have just joined us. We are shortly playing in the clip. We were with you at the CPA in 2005, and we were with you all the way to 2011. Having had that very long commitment, I have to say that we have been quite disappointed with what happened. All the promises that were made, all the hopes that was created there, that was not fulfilled, and by the inability to agree on the key principles of a good governance of your country. We had expected better. We are not underestimating that these things are difficult, because building in new states is no small feat. It's about building institutions. It is also building the culture of a new state. I mean, the political culture of accepting the limits of power, of remembering that leaders, I am, for the moment, a leader and a former minister, a member of my country, I have never doubted that I am a servant of the people. The people is not my servant. It's the other way around. I'm elected, and my mandate states as long as I have it, but it's enshrined in rule of law, which limits power. You should have power, but you should use it in the proper manner. This is the essence of leadership in our type of societies, and the leadership has to be carried out by the leaders, but also that provides for the acceptance of the people. Not only people in parliament, people in government, people in the formal opposition, but also civil society. Sonny, over to you. Yes, Dr. Yachol, the Norwegian Foreign Minister, he has been with the people of South Sudan for a very long time, and they were disappointed that all the promises, the hopes were not fulfilled. So, what is your, when you are listening to him yesterday, what was going on in your mind, and does it signify the fact that many donors have not come forward openly to support the ongoing implementation of the RRCs in South Sudan? I think when I heard the foreign minister speak yesterday, it was heavy, but it's the truth. And you can imagine if the foreign actors who have used their taxpayer's money, and we have been to some of these countries, and we have seen truly how even these relationships that are relayed by government representatives are deeply rooted in the people. For instance, the Norwegian people truly, truly have a special place for South Sudan. I mean, we know even somewhere in Torit, back in the day there was a little place called Little Norway. And we've seen many, many young people at my age and younger, you know, younger than me, who have been, who an of Norwegian origin and who were born in South Sudan, and that just shows how deep this relationship goes. And so this expression of disappointment, because it comes from a place of being critical friends, they're able to speak to us with honesty and transparency and not beat around the bush about what truly the expectations were and how all the citizens of the world really rallied behind South Sudan during its quest for independence and nation and state building. And I would say, you can just imagine, if this is how much the foreign nationals are disappointed, how is it for the South Sudanese, for the people that had to bear this, how is it for them, you know, how is it for the people that stood in on cues. How is it for people that, you know, left, left wherever they are to come back home. How is it for those people who stood the test of time during this long conflict because they knew there was a better tomorrow. And we are in a country today where even, even public servants have not had their salaries for the eighth month running, including men in uniform with guns. What a dangerous combination that is, you look at our dignitaries for 36 months straight have not had their salaries. And so the disappointment is cross cutting. We've looked at inflation that has gone to over 300% in under six months. Where does the average South Sudanese eat from? And, you know, we have reached a level of apathy when you have no energy left. This is where the citizens of South Sudan. And so it was refreshing also to hear the Norwegian Foreign Minister express the hearts of the South Sudanese people. People are frustrated, they're angry, they're disappointed, and they want to see better. And I want to echo really what the Good Bishop has just said here, which is, it is clear that this political will is not something that you can plant on people. You know, you either have it or you don't. Unfortunately, our leadership has continuously failed the people. This is now less than 15% implementation of the arses. Our leadership continues to fail. Does the arses, then there is revitalization, extension one, extension two, then they do their own unilateral thing and do a whole roadmap and still very, very little. And so this begs the question, what is the problem with the people in leadership? If you cannot do the job, then why don't you assign the job to somebody else? Why don't you create an environment where people can identify who can do this job and the job can be done? It is not for lack of leaders in South Sudan. It is not for lack of leaders. We have cadas all over the world running big institutions, influencing policy, even at top government levels all over the world. I have alone those who are home and are still bearing the brunt of the suffering that is metted on all the people across the board. And so really finding innovative solutions for a dignified exit for the leaders that have not been able to deliver and create room where we can have citizens that are patriotic with interest of the people at heart to take this mantle forward. You know even when you are running, when you are running, there is a time that comes that you are tired, that you are out of breath. You hand over while you are still on top. You don't hand over when you are down. Because they are saving the best dance that leaves the stage. You have to leave at some point. Even Jesus came and left. He is from the last statement from also the Norwegian Minister of Foreign Affairs where he talked about this is the last chance. All right, coming your way. This should actually be the last time you need to fly out of the country to come to a different country. You need to solve your problems at home. We will support you. We will be with you. But the key is governance. The key is respect of the rule of law. The key is human rights which will be universally applied to all people. And the issues of economic growth and prosperity and how to share the resources of oil. We have a lot of experience in that in Norway, how to manage the economy. That comes once you get your house in order, once you get governance. You have so many friends already to help you, but we cannot enforce. It's you who have to get your house in order. You have to get together and actually find the key solutions which the people have also done, expects from you. We have a duty to help you, but will help you to do your job. That's why you are here. And I wish you all the best. And I have a lot of hope, a lot of tonight. Over to you, Sunny and the guests in the studio over there in Nairobi. Yes, a bishop in October, we are ready to help, unless you put your house in order. Does it mean there are people out there who are ready to help us when we are ready to help ourselves? Yeah, of course the Troika is number one, but also other countries. I remember the Arabic, and I know that all of them are in Juba. Whenever we meet every month, they hear the reports of the implementation of the peace agreement, and they get disappointed, just like the Norwegian foreign message expressed. So we are not transparent. We do not want to admit our mistakes. That's our weakness, but I think we also should recognize that these are our leaders. Probably they are not tired. They have been fighting for 21 years, and now they have to do the transition until we got our referendum and we got the independence. They have really done good job. We should congratulate them for that. After that, we should not join them to do what they call nation and state building. This cannot be done by one party, one person. It should be all of us. So if they were to take our advice, I think those who are above 70, should really go home to rest. They leave the younger generation to embark on the most difficult job, the nation state building. I've talked about this in 2019, Ebony Center Forum at Grand Hotel. I said it took us 40 years to achieve the most difficult jobs in the world. Some of them said that we will not be there. I said that we should be mentoring young people, rather than killing to be charged and doing more damage than good. We should retain the legacy, not the legacy of liberation. So that we die in peace, and also include a good name, and leave very good legacy to children, children, children. So I think it is time, as the Norwegian ambassador put it, they are going to help us. But this is the last time, this is the last chance. And therefore, I think we should make use of it so that we go home. What does it mean, when a foreign minister of another country saying this is the last chance? Well, when your friend tells you this, it means that he's given you the warning. If you don't listen to your friend, he's going to now work against you. You tell the right that he has even not listened to me, his friend. So why should you go to them? So this is the warning, very clear. So should the politician and leaders of South Sudan take it as a serious matter, and also couple yesterday, the chief mediator, the Russian mayor said, "Don't abuse your friends." That's what he said yesterday, without going into more details. No, you know, we all deal with respect. There is a professor, John Paul Leatherack, who has come out with the concept of a pyramid of society. The top level, the level one, is the political minister leaders, who are now the one in Juba. And those who are outside here, they want to get in, also eat, like those who are in Juba. And then we who are in the media, the civil society, the leaders, the academia, the eminent persons. There are also some elders who are very good, like others I know, I don't want to tell the names. Like we have, for example, a professor Paul in here. Then the people at the bottom. Now our focus has been all the looking outside, to the U.N., to Roy Ka, no. It is time to go to the bottom. Make our people aware that we are now in charge of our own country. The time of colonialism is over since 2011. People always talk about the government. I say, "You are the government now. You have the sovereign power to bring whoever you want to bring. And to what are those who have served you. But our people need to be enlightened." So what we can ask for from our friends, instead of leaving us to mess up, let them help us to a lot of our people. Because they have been, they have ruled for over 190 years. And they all took up to colonial powers, including our own government, from 2011. No, it is now our government. We should bring the government which will listen to us, which will serve us, which will not kill us, which will not torture us. It is our duty. But of course, people say, "Pish up, but you know, I am not the government." I say, "No, you are the government." You are the sovereign people. You are the sovereign people. How do you do that? How can an ordinary South Sudanese have no power? Like Ajax said, no payment for six, seven months, eight months. The inflation is biting since they are not going well. There are a lot of pockets of conflict, what they call sub-national violence, happening in some parts of the country. Well, we have our representatives in parliament. And it is in the beginning to ask questions, because they have not even got salary. In fact, one of them told me, "Pish up, I have not received my salary for three months." Very much. I don't know how you people are eating. I say, actually, we are not used to salaries. We just eat from scratch here and there. Whether it is through farming or fishing or doing small business. But they are used to salary, and I do. So, now they are waking up when they announce how many members, ministers, five ministers, last week. I give this amount 10. Yes. And now, if you have up here. Now, even the minister, the governor of France, who confessed that he was the owner who took the 10 million. Yeah, they should take action, discipline, accountability. These tips must be discipline, because they represent us. And if they don't, we will get them out. Okay. Yes, Edmonde, before we go, just in two minutes as we cross over to the second hour of our discussion. First of all, this statement that this is the last chance. Put your house in order. We need to see the rule of law, human rights, and also economic growth. The foreign minister also says, "No, it's good in dealing with issues to do with oil. If you are, in other words, in my own understanding, we are available to come and help you with your oil, so that it can contribute to the economic growth of your country." This statement is sending a message clearly to our leaders that, one, they can't build a state in the nation of South Sudan in a successful manner if they don't adhere to the values of democracy. You see, you have pronounced quite a number of segments that defines what is called democracy. But democracy also does not exist. In a society where you have political leaders who are powerful, whether financially or with the sector of the security and defense, and they tend to impress, try, dominance, and try after the visions and clicks. We know it would work as a clicks, because, normally, you see, South Sudan is being managed by wrong clicks, political clicks, that you can know them. They are cross-ethnic lines, so we don't blame any particular ethnic group for the country. So our leaders need to now change the way how they do business. What does it mean? It means they need to hold themselves accountable before seeing the question of accountability. In the sense, as Enotamar have said, that somehow parliament is a morning minister. Actually, you know, why parliament are not some morning ministers? Because the poverty have led to the hub of the MPs. They are failing it. They are failing it. They have been working over 20,000 US dollars, 4,000 US dollars. Not even 1,000 US dollars. MPs are not feeling that they are real MPs. Because the poverty, the feeling of hunger, the feeling of getting services as required, as my staff said, soldiers are turning now to be people of banning charcoal. Instead of protecting us, instead of enforcing the rule of law, they are not working in charcoal. These have touched the hub of MPs. Now, they are hot. So for me, as Revenel looks at, the message of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Norway, it is a big lesson to our current leaders in power to check action. And they have the opportunity to check action to make so that staff can be billed as a successful state. So for me, that's it. So my final message is that time has come, and I would like to take this opportunity. The institution I represent, we will start homegrown solutions. And unfortunately, when we are starting homegrown solutions, my message is for the peace spoilers. Who deny us space? Sometimes they want to arrest them, they want to threaten. This time down, after Tomayini, no way. We will be back home and want to see leaders that really send citizens. And you have said what the Minister said, that I am not as a Prime Minister of Norway because of myself. I am a Prime Minister because of the citizens' interests. I stand for the citizens' interests. So it's a high moment now, our leaders will need to stand up and take advantage of the current moment, the current attention that Tomayini have created to deliver peace and stability in the country. That's for me, the message, the whole response. And of course, one thing before we go to this platform is to call upon those who still believe that they have a venue, that they can stand up and work for peace. We have to be hearing that from you, we have to take a break as we cross the next hour of our discussion. Our lines will be open to you later now, we can call on 091-2079 or 091-206950. Those are all our lines, we can call in the next hour and depart our discussion about you. Garan, in our studio in Juba. To our collars, you will be able to call us on huge lines and we shall transmit your questions to Nairobi, I have a guess to respond to them. Let's go for a break now. [Music] The round table. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] You're listening to Radio Miraya. [Music] The round table, informative, fresh and direct. What do the people of South Sudan want, they want just any government or they want a government that they feel would represent the kinds of things they need that will bring a sustainable peace. Here from the experts, policymakers and major stakeholders about trending national issues around you. On the round table, ideas are served. [Music] Join the experts as they discuss national issues and how they affect you. You don't want to go back to war, you don't want to go back to war. The round table, every Saturday from 8 to 10 in the morning with a repeat on Sundays from 6 to 8 p.m. On the radio, the round table. [Music] Y'all, hello. My name is Lema Bowie. I'm from Liberia. I'm a Nobel Peace Prize winner. I'm a women's rights activist. My message to the women of South Sudan, stay focused, fight for peace. We'll let anyone kick you on the side. You got it, girls. 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