[MUSIC PLAYING] Fan Morning Show, sports head 590, the fan badass, Brent Gunning. So it's a very interesting off season for the Toronto Maple Leafs in so far as they may ask, there are $11 million, nearly $11 million, homegrown player, 99-point guy, to wave as no move. It's good to say he's actually exactly as close to 100 points as he is $11 million. Yeah, it's very interesting how that works. They may ask him to leave. Could you please leave? Maybe. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he is intent on leaving? Maybe he doesn't want to leave. Who knows? Maybe more coffee with Craig Burouba in the future. And maybe Joseph Wall is, like, really, really good. In the sample we've seen of him in the postseason, still departing as the Stanley Cup playoff leader in save percentage. Bob's trying to catch him. Yeah, he's up in the ante. And he's not at 100%, so, like, enough games played. Bob could conceivably-- In theory. --it would take-- A lot. A lot of shots, and a few more shutouts from Sergey Babrowski. Anyways, I think we can all agree that Joseph Wall is pretty good, but can he stay healthy? How many games can you count on Joseph Wall? Certainly not to be the number one unquestioned, you know, 60-game starter for the Toronto Maple Leafs in 24-25. So, what do you do behind him? Elliot Friedman, starting the pontificating on 32 thoughts, talking about a potential target for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Is there a latest on Jacob Markstrom in the Calgary Flames? I think the thing is here is that it was so crazy during the season, Calgary is trying to do this as quietly as possible. But there's definitely something going on. I mean, New Jersey Fitzgerald's on record is saying he will consider moving his tenth overall pick. And I know a lot of people are looking at it in goal. A couple of other teams, I wonder about their two, Toronto. And I know deals with Toronto and Calgary are kind of complicated, but the GM in Toronto was the guy who signed Markstrom in Calgary. And just on paper, a Markstrom Wall combination is a pretty good combination. I look at that and I say I could see why a team like Toronto would be interested in that potentially. And the other team that I think is in on almost every goalie conversation is Ottawa. Now, the thing about Markstrom is trading for him. He's basically a two-time six player you're trading for. And if your choice is trading for a goalie, especially him with that contractor, going out or signing someone in free agency, that might be a bigger number, you're very happy to take that. So I can understand whether it be a lot of interest in Markstrom. - All right. So yeah, two years at six million per is the cap hit remaining on Jacob Markstrom, who's no spring chicken anymore. He's 34, turning 35 on January 31st. He has a full no move clause as well. It should be stated, finished this past season with a 905 save percentage in 48 games for Calgary Flames team that missed the playoffs. Is he target number one, if your brides were living in the Toronto Maple Leafs? - Yeah, I think he is, but I'm also a little weary of that. But I think this is the nature of goal tending. I think some people would look at sorrows and say, no, no, no, that should be your target number one. The thing I like about Markstrom is you don't have to immediately, I mean, you're making a decision on either of these guys, if you're trading for him, but you then don't have to immediately lock him up. You get your two runs, he's gonna be 36 years old, and then you probably shake hands and say good riddance. I think that's probably how it would go. So the timeline works out perfectly. Obviously, this is a guy who has performed well in the past, but, I mean, go ask Connor Heliabuck how quickly it can all end, and I'm not necessarily pouring dirt on him after that series, but I don't know, the world where Connor Heliabuck continued to get the little bit worse deeper and deeper into his 30s, we can all see that. And if we can see it for Connor Heliabuck, we certainly could see it for Markstrom. So he should be target number one, and my weariness of making a move on him has nothing to do with him. It's more so just the position, but that is the, I mentioned Jake Allen is another guy, which is funny that the Devils are another team interested there. This is what you want, a stopgap measure that you feel confident in. I think it's kind of, it allows you to live in both worlds effectively of a little bit of term, but a more certainty than if you'd go with a guy you're giving a big, big ticket to and serves. >> Yeah, I think he would be the number one target, but it's not, it's like, it's not gonna happen. I mean, and Ellie had hit on part of the reason why. It's just everybody else has more assets to trade. I guess the, the, the unsaid thing is the no move clause, but I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't feel like New Jersey is a place 'cause of its proximity to New York City, the people that lock trades do, and they've obviously got a good young core there despite missing light. Like they can, they're a gold tenor away this season. >> And if the issue is a big market, I don't think it's then looking at Toronto that would be more appealing. >> All right, no, I think just like factually the devils have more assets to give up. And also there's reports that UC Soros, like that train is leaving the station that he likes it in Nashville and the predators are interested in re-upping him. >> Of course he does, he's an NHL player playing in a somewhat Southern market where no one would ever have pressure on him. >> Of course he loves it. >> Linus Almark was never a possibility, not that anyone was talking about it as any serious possibility, but it feels like that's not so for the Bruins. Despite those leaves being- >> That's not so for both parties. >> Being the little brother in the division, it doesn't matter. You're not trading him with, it's not gonna be a trauma belief. >> There is no world where that deal makes a lick of sense for either side. You're boss and you're staring down, trading away the wrong goalie, although we all know how this would happen, they would have traded away exactly the right one. And if you're the Leafs, you're looking at Matthew Nye's Boston Bruins legend or something on those lines. >> So get yourself accustomed to watching Laurent Brassois split in time with Joe Wall, and then like a third goalie, and maybe this is where we finally get to see the AHL depth. >> Yeah. >> Be a part of the NHL conversation. >> Yeah, I mean, you would think like if normal progression is part of the equation there, that this would be, at least they wouldn't be terrified to put them into an NHL game as they were a season ago. It's going to be a guy of that ilk. Even Jake Allen, why he's been good at times as a starter? That guy's a career backup. >> No, he is, but I do wonder if there's a world where, I suppose the Devils would just wanna keep that tandem, but it's like they like their kids. Would you not wanna pair one of those kids up with Markstrom? And then if you're the Leafs, you like, I'm not saying Allen would be the guy I target, but if it's a world where the Devils get their man. >> He's in the Brassois bucket though. >> I feel the more confident Allen. >> No, there's Markstrom. >> Yeah. >> And there's Sorrows. >> I'm not sure. >> And there's Allmark. And then there's like, yeah, the Allen Brassois bar. He's a, okay, maybe boy, for parsing, like we're breaking each rung into like mini rungs. Okay, he's up a mini rung on Laurent Brassois. >> So I'm not sitting here saying he's a massive like difference maker. And honestly, it's like, maybe I'm just being swayed by the fact that he's so good on TV, but I do feel more confident in Allen than Brassois. And I don't know if it's like playing in Montreal, if that's some element of it. I, there's just, I would have much, it's scary how much more security I would feel with Allen than Brassois, 'cause you're not wrong. >> Yeah. >> This is the disc goalies though. >> No, I know. Here's the thing, yeah. I mean, if you have Laurent Brassois, you have Joseph Wall, you've got Dennis Hill to be. >> I thought what you were gonna say is, kind of no matter what the answer is, whether it's Allen or Brassois, Joe Wall better be pretty good. I thought it's what you were gonna say, 'cause that's the actual answer. >> Yeah, and I think you have to make peace with the fact that he's not gonna be very healthy, right? Like the idea of Joe Wall being the number one, having the best performance of any goalie that you have within the organization is probably likely. But the idea that you can get him even for, like even a backup's workload without getting injured, man, I just like history would tell you it's not happening. >> Until I, because all of the injuries have been different, I, that actually is like slightly more appealing to me and that it's not a bad back that's constantly undone him. But until he proves otherwise, yeah, you have to expect he's going to play at most 40-some odd games, at most. So, yeah, that's the way I look at it. >> Yeah, Jacob Marksman would be great. It's just, yeah, do you have a top 10 pick? >> No, and it's really, it's really good that the Leafs got rid of the GM that apparently no one wanted to make deals with. And now the only team they want to make deals with, they have the GM that apparently isn't allowed to make trades with them. >> Yeah, good, good stuff. >> Awesome, awesome, awesome. >> Blue Jay started a series in Milwaukee tonight against the rules eight o'clock on Sportsnet. Sportsnet 590 the fan. Spencer Horowitz, I would imagine against the right, he's getting another start at second base. You could quit it himself nicely. >> Yeah. >> Brief time we saw him, of course, in his debut, we didn't see him make a single play, and he was immediately removed from the game for a bench hitter, and then the ball went immediately to second base. But we saw him make a couple of plays yesterday. He looked pretty darn good. And he took a walk, even had a base hit on a first pitch. He's been jumping on some more first pitches in his professional career this season, because he's trying to get more power. It's weird that the first pitch that he jumped on was like a little flare to left field. Anyways, he has the first hit out of the way. He has played 11 games in his professional career at second base. And I'm not like, there's two ways to message this. One is, it's hilarious that all defense and pitching team is going to the guy who's like, hey man, crash course and learning how to play second base. >> It is incredibly hard. We really have to have that Washington drop ready if we really do. >> Right, it wasn't true in the moment, it's not true now. I mean, maybe first base is more difficult than second base, but Spencer Horitz literally learned how to play the position. And they were comfortable enough in his defense there. Over a two week span that he's in the major leagues, playing that position. I imagine every day against righties at the very least. >> Sounds like it. >> For a team that is hoping to make the playoffs. So it's on the one hand, it's like hilarious and embarrassing. On the other hand, I can't be too mad because it was multiple times this season. And last time we talked to Ben Nichols and Smith, which was last week where I was like, come on, can we act with some urgency here? So at least there is an acknowledgement that, hey man, perfect world, we would be the pitching and defense team with enough offense, but there's not enough offense here. And we have to do whatever it takes, sacrificing defense along the way. >> Jessica, something is embarrassing. Doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do, okay? This is the move that the J's have to make. They have to act with more urgency to get more offensive players there. But this is what I said when Vlad, the first guy moved over to third. Okay, good, honestly, congratulations that you are experimenting. This is a good thing to see. It is proof positive that the vision and the ball club you'd put together at the first crack of things wasn't working. So you want to give them kudos for doing it, but it doesn't mean that it is not a complete demarcation from kind of where they are to start the year. >> Yeah, it's not ideal. Taking two out of three in Oakland is not the perfect scenario, it's a good scenario. >> Hey, you don't even need to say the team. They just, they won two or three, they won a series. >> Yeah, as they joined the Chicago White Sox and the Pittsburgh Pirates is the only teams to lose series to the Blue Jays in the last month. All right, let's talk to the voice of the Blue Jays, Ben Schulman on Sportsnet 5.9 in the fan. He joins us now. How's it going, Ben? >> Doing well, gentlemen. How are you? >> Doing all right. How do you feel about the early returns on Spencer Horowitz as the everyday second baseman against Rites at least? >> Yeah, I mean, I will say, you know, he's had a couple of bets. I thought, you know, for the most part, it's gone well. He's had a single on a walk and that's what he's going to do. A lot, he's going to find his way on base almost every single game. Really impressed with his defensive play though yesterday. I thought he had a handful of tough plays yesterday, including the catch. He had to make battling the sun in right field and the ball that probably wasn't really his ball. If you were to redo that play and a couple of ground balls, one or two that he had to come up with quickly and throw over to first. And I was a little more concerned about defense and offense for Horowitz, who kind of was solid offensively when he came up last year. And he did a lot defensively yesterday. I thought he was good. >> Yeah, obviously there are going to be games like that for him. I mean, he's a player comes up from the minor leagues. You don't want him to need to kind of save the season. Before we get too deep into what happened this weekend, I got to talk about what happened to get Horowitz up here. Kevin Bggio, DFA'd. What was your kind of level of shock at the move? I think a lot of people can see the roadmap to how the team got there. But I also think a lot of people maybe would have picked some other names if they would have been the ones choosing. What did you make of a B&B GEO that drew the short straw? >> Yeah, I mean, it's not like I could see the future, but I actually wasn't really surprised. It was what I thought they might do. You know, Kevin has been an important player for them for a number of years. But I think when a lot of people looked at the options, it was him, it was potentially Vocalback, it was maybe Ernie Clemente. Those were the names that I saw people looking at online. And when I looked at Horowitz as a player, you know, Clemente is a right-handed hitter. He plays a couple of positions for which doesn't play. So I thought, you know, that makes sense that maybe you'd keep him because they would play in different situations. And then, you know, a lot of people say Vocalback maybe. And I just looked at a team that has not hit for a ton of power in general. And I know that Vocalback has, you know, had a couple of good weeks later than that. Hasn't played much and hasn't done, you know, a ton for them at the plate. But I just didn't see them getting rid of a guy who hits for power right now to bring up another on-base, you know, base-running defense guy. I think as good as Vigio is at that, and as much as Clemente helps you with that, as much as Horowitz helps you with that, they already arguably have too many of those guys on the roster. So I just thought that, you know, it had a lot more to do with redundancy and types of players that Horowitz and Vigio are than necessarily Vigio versus Vocalback. Who do you or who do they like more? So I kind of understood it. You know, I wasn't like happy at all seeing it. Kevin, first of all, it's a great person to work with. And, you know, in general, I think it's just, it has been a fun player to watch for a while, but I did see how they got to that point. Yeah, I think they're hoping to get a rich man's cabin Vigio out of Spencer Horowitz. So yeah, they do feel like similar type players. So I don't know if you disagree with this, Ben. I don't think the Blue Jays are good yet. I really don't think like a series victory in Oakland against the A's. And I mentioned all those teams that they've won series against in the last month. I don't think it means, despite them being closer than to 500 and all the teams that they're. Now they've actually leapfrogged the race. They're no longer in last in the American League East. I don't think we're anywhere close to where this front office thought they would be at this point in the season. Maybe you disagree with that. Maybe you agree with that. What in your mind do they have to do to look like that team? Yeah, I mean, first of all, they're not over 500. So I'm not going to say I totally disagree with you. They definitely did not want to be below 500. 65 games in, you know, the two things they have to do are kind of the things that they've had to do the whole year. They need to hit more, which they've done a little bit more, although, you know, you guys talking about who they've played, certainly plays a factor. We're going to see how much it translates in the next couple of weeks when they play. You know, I think the worst team they're going to play in the next couple of weeks is one Houston series and a couple against Boston, who has a very similar record to Toronto, and they got to be more consistent in the bullpen, which, you know, some of which unfortunately comes down to injuries and just they have not had great luck in the pen this year. But at the same time, they have to, you know, if they were 20 at the ERA, it'd be a little bit easier to say that, but they're 29th, I believe, or maybe they lowered it yesterday with a pretty good day. But they have to, you know, be a little bit better in the bullpen. So they're going to, you know, they're going to get good starts. They've had really good starts. It'd be found Francis yesterday, went four scorelists for them in a spot start. Yariel Rodriguez is about to start for Buffalo on Tuesday, I think, was the last word that we heard and maybe could return soon. So, you know, they're going to start well. They got to keep hitting. They got to get guys around flatty, going a little bit more consistently. He's kept it going, which has been great. And, you know, they have to lock down more games when they're leading close late, which is tough with the personnel they're working with at times. Yeah, I mean, the Blue Jays, quite frankly, they aren't leading enough games late to squander away ones when they are. You mentioned Rodriguez there, him continuing his rehab, what is the ideal kind of role for him? And I don't know, maybe these are the same question, maybe they're not, but where do you think he fits best on this Blue Jays team when he is back? Is it the long man? Is it more as that fifth starter? Where would you use him? I think I'd put him in the starter role. I'm not sure that he's, you know, going to throw a hundred every time. And, you know, prior to Alec Manoa's injury, I was frankly really excited to see what he could do in shorter stints in the bullpen. I think he would be a great reliever. He was the set up man of the year one year in Japan and was an incredibly effective reliever over there. But I think at this point for the Blue Jays biggest need, I think you put him back in the rotation. You can pair him sometimes with the Francis. You can pair him sometimes with the Richards, but he gives you enough length that you're not asking for, you know, three innings out of a reliever and then it does a little bit less to disrupt your bullpen than what you're currently doing right now. I think for the Blue Jays, you put Rodriguez in there. I mean, he was very good for them for the most part when they had him in the rotation before he got injured. And you hope that that works out. You know, if things change about the complexion of the season, especially, you know, if they fall out of it entirely, then I think you start making other decisions. But if you're looking to win as many games as possible, I would want him to start it personally. God, it is hard to imagine them falling far enough out of it that it's like you got to sell every piece that's not nailed down. I do think they should be thinking about no matter what the next month brings trading away the guys that are pending free agents, but just man, with three wildcard teams in each league, it's hard to imagine the Blue Jays being bad enough that it's like obvious, obvious. We'll see though. I just still don't think they're quite very good. Ben, appreciate the time. Appreciate it. - Thank you guys. Hope you have a good one. Talk to you soon. - Sounds good. Ben Shulman, voice of the Blue Jays on Sportsnet 5.9 the fans, they opened up a series in Milwaukee against the Brewers to that point. So I mentioned they're climbing the standings. - Yep. - Despite like, have you watched this stretch of games? Despite the fact that they split a series against the Baltimore Orioles, which is maybe their biggest accomplishment over the last month. - You saying that, I'm just, I have to be honest, I just have the visual of the Blue Jays logo doing the like hill climber game from the prices, right? Like, that's all in picturing my head right now. - Yeah. So they're ahead of the defending World Series champions. The Texas Rangers are behind them in the American League wildcard chase. The Rays are quite bad this year, but they're ahead of the Rays. Again, like my big fly metric, big fly factor. - Yeah. - The Rays are just really bad. I think you can count on the Rays being bad. - Yeah, I've heard you, I've heard you want power bats to win in the year 2024. I've heard, I don't know. I might have you screamed it into this microphone in front of my face for the last two months, yep. - Yeah, the Astros are behind them. They end the Rangers. The Astros and the Rangers both have a positive run differential. Blue Jays are minus 35. So they're looking up at the Tigers Red Sox and the Twins holding down the final wildcard spot in the American League. - Those teams are like otherworldly. It is hard to imagine the scenario that frankly, I guess did kind of present itself before the Blue Jays won a series 'cause they went almost a month before winning that series against the White Sox, where it was like, oh, this team's gonna be 20 games under 500. They're bad, but it's not going to be obvious. If you're just transported from, like you've been in a coma, right? You're Brendan Frazier. You've been in your bunker. And then in the middle of July, you're brought out and the Blue Jays, you see them where they're going to be in the wildcard standings and what the record is, be it at 500, a couple of games under, a couple of games over. And for you to be like, well, obviously you gotta sell. That's not going to happen. The talent is so flat and everybody stinks so much and everybody gets into the playoffs, it's just not going to happen. It is going to be a difficult decision. But you're an idiot if things continue to look the way they do and I don't see the path to looking otherwise, you're an idiot. If you're Ross Atkins and Mark Shapiro, whoever's making the decisions, if you don't sell off your pending free agents, if you're not re-signing them at least. Like, if Danny Jansen, you're like, we got no other answers at the catching position. And, you know, we'll get him at Commensurate Market Value. We're not going into some long rebuild. Okay, that makes some sense. But like Jimmy Garcia gots to go. You say Kuchy gots to go, you're not re-signing him. And I think that's insane to resign him at the mid 30s. It will not be obvious, but you have to make the tough decision the next month and a half. - Yeah, we've seen it across all sports that this is actually the road to success in the immediacy. If you want to have any semblance of an immediate turnaround is you have to make those hard decisions. The thing I would say about the Js, and, you know, I suppose you can make this case for some other teams, but if they had an, you know, again, like if the Tigers lose school ball, this is going to affect, it's going to affect what they do. But the Blue Jays losing one of their kind of, I mean, any of the guys are front end starters. They have been so important to what they do. I do wonder if you lose one of those guys and then you're in a position where you're patching it together and it's Rodriguez and Francis for two thirds of your rotation. I could see a world where that happens, but we don't sit here banking on injuries. That's the only way I could see it where they do fall out of the picture completely. And if it's one of those guys, you're potentially losing a trade asset there. So I'm not telling you that's a good thing either. That's the only scenario though, I can see where they kind of completely fall out of it. - Maybe. - 'Cause if there's no burials or gauzmen, what does this team look like? - Well, burials has never spent a second. - Right. - So I'm not going to be him. - This is career and yeah, the reason they target these guys in free agency is because they believe in their ability to stay healthy. - One and say what you will about this front office. And again, just listen, pick any show and a Jay's segment and we've probably said it, whatever you're thinking out there, they've done an amazing job building this rotation. They lost a 25 year old in the peak of his prime coming off at all star season and it kind of didn't matter. It barely changed the math on what you expect from their friend or from their rotation. So yeah, I think they have to make those hard decisions and they're probably going to be sitting there staring down the barrel of it. But unlike all those other teams you mentioned, like the Texas Rangers, you know what they have? Like young promising players that have not had four or five years of major league track record that you can just say, okay, these guys are what they are. They've done this and it has happened. So yeah, the Jay's are going to be in a spa where they have to make a hard decision. I hope they have the gumption to do it, quite honestly. - Gotta have gumption. - I've always said that, gotta have gumption. As mentioned earlier in today's show, Santana coming to Budweiser's stage this summer on June 26th with counting Crows as part of their oneness tour to enter for a chance to win tickets. Text in today's code word marathon to 59590. Again, that's marathon to 59590. Now the pair of tickets giving them away tomorrow. But if you don't win with us, tickets on sale at ticketmaster.ca. When we come back, game two, cup final, sunrise Florida. That's where we find Jason Demers of NHL Network. Next is the fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jay's Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jay's Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Fan morning shows, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning. Rogers announcing an exciting new national contest brings Stanley home to send Rogers customers and hockey fans from across Canada to the Stanley Cup final in Edmonton. Rogers customers have the chance to win 10 VIP trips for two to attend game four in Edmonton. Saturday, June 15th. The prize also including travel and accommodation. Plus premium viewing at a game day concert outside Rogers plays visit Rogers.com/Stanleycup to enter for your chance to win and for more details. Game two of the Stanley Cup final going tonight from sunrise Florida, where I would think the Panthers need to be better than they were in game one outside of one guy, but we shall see time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. Today's insider, Jason Divers, hockey analyst for NHL Network in Florida right now. How's it going, Jason? - What's going on, boys? Just take it some time. You're taking my time away from the sun, so just roll it. - It's one thing. - I just went through it. No, it's one thing to be on like the Florida road trip in the middle of the winter, where it's like, oh, you get to throw the jealousy card at us, but it's like, it's nice here. Like, I'm gonna go golfing today. Like, your words mean nothing to me, Jason. - Oh, it is so hot here. - Yes, too hot. - Yes, too hot. Yeah, you should be jealous of me. - I am. I'm looking forward to being in a cold rink. (both laughing) All right, would you be encouraged or discouraged if you're the Oilers after a game one in Sergey Babrowski stealing that thing? - Oh, I mean, listen, you have to be encouraged because I think that's one of the better games they've played, you know, outside of two mental laps as they had defensively, but, you know, that's one of the better complete games they've played. But, you know, the thing that would worry me is, you know, just Florida didn't play a great game. I don't think Florida's gonna give you the looks that they gave in game one. So, for me, it's interesting to see the adjustments Florida makes and then, for Edmonton, you can't have anything less than what they had last game. And if they keep putting that effort forward, I mean, pucks will start going in. It's just, you can't give Connor and those guys that many chances, great days, but I don't see that happening. So, I think it's gonna become a lot tighter series. - Yeah, I mean, one of the biggest reasons why, or not one of, the biggest reason why the series is what it is after one game is Sergey Babrowski. I mean, I imagine at some point in time, you've played on a team with a Red Hawk goalie, maybe you've been on the other side of it in a series. How does that change the feeling for a series when a guy just feels unbeatable? And, you know, not that I'm calling the shutout tonight, but if Bob does that again, I imagine the Oilers' heads are gonna kind of be spinning. What does it do to either the Panthers to have Bob rolling like that? Or if you maybe have more experience on the kind of Oilers side of things where you're just sitting there going, how do we beat this guy? - You obviously get a lot of confidence. I think after the game, I saw a couple of guys and they were all just like, Bob was incredible and just kind of a deep exhale, but they seem pretty confident and calm that they're gonna play a way better game. And on the Edmonton side, they were just like, listen, there was Bob beat us. We know we can get to them. We keep doing that. We keep putting that effort forward. We're gonna get it. So, but as a defenseman, when you know that's behind you, when you just, you pinch any time you want, you just know that he's gonna protect you, but you always gotta know that, you know, it can only last so long. Like a goal is only human and there's only a matter of time before he fatigues a little bit. So I think they're definitely gonna adjust and tighten things up. So, Sir Gabe Abroski didn't even start game one of the postseason for the Panthers last season. (laughs) He took over and they went all the way to the cup final. And then, you know, he's doing what he did all regular season and then having another run and he's the favorite to win the consummate this season. It's hilarious where we've come with this guy. He's won a couple of vesnas, of course, with the blue jackets. I think the conversation's probably obvious. If he wins a consummate as to whether he's a Hall of Famer, do you think he's a Hall of Famer whether or not they win this thing? I think he's in the conversation for sure. It's such a hard position and it's such a hard position to be consistently good at. And he had some, you know, down years and it's amazing how he's refound his game and probably taking it to another level. And the way he moves and the way he fights for Pops and the way he's able to see through traffic and also just his athleticism is absolutely incredible. So I think he's in the conversation. Obviously, I think cementing it is winning a cup and I don't think it's even a question if he's playing the way he played like Game 1. Yeah, I mean, obviously, if he keeps doing that, the consummate can't be far behind for him. Somebody who's been incredibly impressive on the Euler side of things. No, not McDavid, no, non dry side. The other guy racking up all the points. Evan Bouchard, whenever we see a young defenseman performing like this offensively, I think we immediately say, okay, there have to be some warts on the other side of it. Where do Adam Bouchard is a kind of all-around defenseman? We know what he's capable of offensively, but do you think he's made some strides even in these playoffs as a defender? Well, he's taken leaps and bounds defensively and just the way he moves the puck, you know, and the way he gets out of trouble and the way he creates turnovers, his stick is really underrated on the defensive side of things and, you know, he blocks shots. Obviously, I think that comb helps immensely, but listen, he's whatever Paul Coffey did or the coaching change or just being given the keys that became them last year and kind of learning how to play with this top unit and the Leons and the Connors. And he's incredible. He just, his patience and his ability to fold kind of, not even have a heartbeat in the face of like incredible pressure is really something. And the kids got ice in his veins and he looks like a middle school teacher. So it's just amazing that he's the ice man. So, and I'm super impressed in having known him for the small amount of time I did. He's such a good kid and such a hard worker. So it's, it's really root for somebody like that. Yeah, Oakville's own, shout out to Oakville. Apparently, the Oilers considering a boy. There's an oblock not afraid to make some, some massive swings when it comes to his roster decisions, his lineup decisions. Evander Kane has one point, no goals in his last eight postseason games. He's not fully healthy, but who is? Like, what are you seeing out of Evander Kane? And is it time to make a move? Well, you know, I'll preface it by saying that now block every decision he's made in the playoffs. And he's had to make, he had to make some tough ones as paid off. He's been, even when it seems like, what is he doing? He is a great deal for the room and the pulse of the team. Now, canners, listen, canner has one point. He does a lot more than points. I'd love to see him score goals and, and, and help out, but he's been great physically. Listen, you know, regardless of guys who've struggled on playoffs, they're all, they're in the Stanley Cup final. So they're doing something right. And I do think physically he was really good on Bennett and to Chuck during that game, just kind of getting his pound of flesh and being physical on them as well. You know, obviously Bennett broke through and created the, probably the four check of the game, but, you know, for parts of that game, I thought canner really neutralize them and was able to inflict some pain and get under their skin. So I do think he needs, he, because he's not scoring, he's gotten more physical, but, you know, I do. If they want to win in deep Florida, it's going to be a team effort. It can't just be Conner scoring four points a night. They need some depth to jump in, which they have this playoff. But, you know, I think canners are the best factor in the series. Yeah, I do think Conner's going to have to have maybe one or two four point nights in this series to win. But I see your point about Kane, you know, it, heading into the series, it was such a big topic. I mean, I think it's a big topic. I mean, I think it's a big topic, but, you know, I think it's going to be a big topic. I mean, I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. I think it's going to be a big topic. We're talking to guys who talk about the Leafs all year. We know that one. We have that one memorized. Yeah. Well, yeah, with the Leafs, it's just because they're shocked. So it's kind of like it's going to happen to you as well. Now I had to get you there. I loved it. I loved it. No. Get back to the Stanley Cup final and not the Leafs. I think that it doesn't worry them. Obviously, Connor is the only one in Leon that physically you want to kind of protect. But they're gamers. They don't mind the physicality. And I think it's going to be a physical series the way Florida plays. But I don't think Edmonton shied away from it and will shy away from it at all. Back to the Leafs for a second here, Jason, because you brought him up. Come on. Let's talk some Leafs. Let's talk some Leafs. Yeah, let's talk some Leafs. I don't know. I've talked enough. I've talked enough Panthers and Oilers. Let's talk some Leafs. Right. All right. So we haven't had a definitive comment on the Mitch Marner thing. We don't even know if anything's been presented to him. How do you think an organization should go about approaching that? Should they be taking offers for Mitch Marner? And then if they get something that they might be interested in acting upon, bring it to him and his representative and saying, hey, like, would you guys accept this? Or should they talk to him first before they go out into the world and try and solicit offers for a guy that has a full no move clause, but in the last year of his deal? I honestly think that, listen, they paid him that contract. If they want to go look for deals, they'll look for deals. And for anybody saying, well, he's got a no move and, you know, you can't get rid of them. I'm like, I haven't modified no move clause. And they found a way to get rid of his show. They'll make it uncomfortable. It's all held for him. And Tom, they're not going to play him and whatever and sit him down and he'll wave it if they're ready. Now, did him and Baruba have a conversation that we saw that kind of famous picture? Oh, yeah. In the coffee shop. Did they have a conversation and kind of ironed things out? And Martin said, hey, listen, I want to be here. But, you know, the thing that worries me is no one, no matter how good of a season he has next year. And he's a great kid and he's a great player. But stop forgetting. You listen, fans are on him, but he's a great player. No one's going to be able to look past their inability to get far in the playoffs. So no matter how good of a season he has, as soon as the playoffs come, everything's going to be under a microscope. Fans are going to get on him after game one if they lose. Because listen, he's not a guy that's going to go in the corner and come out with the puck. Like, he's a perimeter guy that can really make some nice passes. And he can create some incredible things. But he's not a Sam Bennett. So it's like fans, but fans can't get past that. And the media can't get past that once the playoffs start. So I think if I'm him, it's just too uncomfortable. I'd get out of there and I know you're prideful and you want to win. But he's in a no win situation. Because if he, the only way for him to get out of this is when a cop and anything less, he's going to be the guy, one of the guy that's taking bullets, no matter what happens, because he's under a microscope. Even though that, that last goal that eliminated them had nothing to do with him. I don't care what anybody says, you're not going to chase the guy from the bench. You know, Tammy's got a poke check there. And there's four other guys that were flat footed. But because he's under this microscope and everybody's on him first playoffs, they're going to, you know, the pitch works are going to come out and the torches are going to be lit. So I just think it's a no win for him, honestly. And I just think it's one of those things. It's time for a change, a change of scenery. Listen, there's so many teams in the league that will blow up their cores after one missed opportunity. This team's had way too many opportunities for nothing to change. So it's either, I just think one of them of the core four has to go. So obviously not aim at. It's obviously not knee landers like Willie. It's John here or Martin. What's going to get you the bigger return? So it's Martin's. And I think if I'm Martin's and I understand this and we're prideful guys and we want to win, but you also got to make the right decision for you as a person. No offense, Jason. You got a great career. You're an Olympian. How'd you get a no move clause? How'd that work out? Modified. Modified. I'm just a hell of a player. That's for sure. I was, you know, I was an underrated. I'll take it, but it was only 18. So that's right. Can you name the eight teams? Who are the eight teams and what were the reason for the eight teams? I was every Canadian team because of media. No, I'm getting it. I don't even know. I don't even know who it was in the moment. You know, I think it was like teams where I kind of looked at the rosters and I was like, if I were to get traded there, it wouldn't have fit. So I tried to make it where there was room if I had to be moved. And somewhere where like there wasn't a player similar to me. So, you know, it might have been, I think it was like Detroit at the time. I just like, I didn't sit in Detroit and I didn't want to get thrown there. If something happened and, you know, and obviously I left Arizona off and that's where it went. So I had Calgary too, but I waited for Calgary and it didn't work. It didn't end up completing the trade. But I'd wait for Calgary show as well. I wonder if I was in, do you have to answer this? I'm just wondering aloud if Mike Babcock might have been coaching Detroit when you had him on the list. I'm just saying, I'm just just wondering aloud. What were we talking about? I was probably him too. Yeah, I was going to say, like, I feel like I'm kind of dancing around this. It's like, yeah, the roster constructs you. And the opportunity I could maybe, the coach. Yeah, if I imagine that would go into it a little bit. Well, you know, I'm trying not to say taxes, but listen. You can say it, man. Yeah, taxes. We all have to pay them. Yeah. We wish we didn't. Yeah, right? Yeah. The finger thing means the taxes. When you are, like, what do you think is going on among the Leafs group right now? These guys, you mentioned it, the core of these guys, they've been together for so long. They're at the very least friendly with each other. If they're not just outright friends, I don't think Matthews is sitting there every week going, "What are you going to do about this? No trade, Mar. What are you going to do?" But I imagine it's come up at some point in time. How do you think the dynamic is between those three or four guys, when something like this is lingering so much publicly? I think they're supporting each other. Listen, I've known Marner a little bit, just from playing at World Championships. And he's like, it's hard to rag on him because he's such a good kid and a good guy. Really genuine. So it's tough to get on him and be on the media side. And when everybody's kind of sniping him from the rafters, it's tough to kind of jump on that bandwagon. I obviously have to. Listen, it's my job and I got to call it like I see it. But I'm sure that the conversations have been light. I don't know if I'm sure they've supported him and said, "Hey, listen, let's go win this thing." Listen, let's be honest. Look at the two teams that are in the finals. Do you think Toronto would have any chance to beat member of the finals, even with a fully healthy roster? No chance. No. They need to do something. And I don't even think the conference finals too, they didn't have a shot. Not even a hope. So I thought they were going to win one round. That was my goal for them this year. And I think fans kind of knew that this wasn't a cup-winning team. But they'll at least get by a round. And they didn't. So for me, that's like, "Listen, it's something needs to change. No matter how many depth guys you get with just the money that's spread out there on the top four, you've got to make them move. It's unfortunate. You wish they could have completed the job, but listen, they're all going to be better off for it. Will the Leafs on your no-trade clause? No, I think I wanted to go there. Okay. It's easy to say that now. Good man. Good man, Jason. You could be a liar. Yeah. I'll tell you what that. Yeah. They'll love me out there, for sure. Yeah. Well, we love having you on the radio. So, yeah. Yeah. We definitely will. Stands to reason. Jason, great job as always. Enjoy the weather that's way too hot. It's much more comfortable here. It's sad than your toe is. Yeah. Thanks, buddy. It's a standing ocean, so bad. Jason Divers, hockey analyst for NHL Network. He was our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley, northlexus.com. I don't be afraid to talk about the taxes. Yeah. Meaning, I don't want to say taxes in my home. You should listen to this show. Yeah. Yeah. I don't care how many millions you have. You want more of your millions and your posh, like dollars in general. It's like I'll take more than less. Yes, please. Yeah. I mean, we try to get as much out of the Stanley Cup final. It's a great final. Game one was super entertaining. We're going to be entertained by game two. Hard not to. Yeah. Of course. When he opens the door for a Leafs conversation, we're not not going to step through that thing. You guys love talking about the Leafs. Yeah. Guilty. Let's do it. Guess what? Yes. Very much. Because he opens the door, he gets to get his shots in. Because we're not in season, I don't get defensive about it. I can just let him have his jokes. I don't get to go. No, but actually it's not true. Just let to have them. We can all have fun together. Very different conversation November one. No, that's not true. Leave them alone. But yeah. Again, when you hear a comment like that, you can't help but nod your head in agreement with the like Maple Leafs don't look like they belong in this cup final. They didn't look like they belonged in the Eastern Conference final. I just I go back to the comment from John Tavares at the conclusion of that seven game series against the Boston Bruins where he's like, we're close, man. You have to talk to the programmer about that one. That's not his fault. We're close. We're close to what? You were close. You were factually very close. Like one goal in overtime in game seven away from beating the Boston Bruins who were outclassed in every way by the Florida Panthers who outclassed the New York Rangers in the conference final and who are up one game tonight in the Stanley Cup final. So you were close to a series victory and I close to where you're supposed to be close to and that's winning a Stanley Cup. Yeah. How set up for him? Say it again. Wild to come to that conclusion in the year where you're missing two of your best guys for half the series. But it's true. Yeah. You're not wrong. It's just wild to come to that conclusion that year. Yeah, that's all. All right. I know. Open the door. I am who I am. All right. We'll be back tomorrow. It's another edition of the fan morning show. Ben and his friend Donning Sportsman. Five out of the van. Good morning. [music] (upbeat music)
