It's the Monday edition of Canucks Central coming to you live from the Kintec Studio, Kintec, Canada's favorite orthodice provider for his power by thousands of five star Google reviews. Soarfeet, what are you waiting for? Satyar Shah, with Vick Nizar, who's in for Dan Riccio, and Riccio is on a golfing adventure. Excursion? Yeah, he's playing golf. We're not quite sure how his round is going. We are endeavoring to find out. When we do find out, we will tell you. He's doing a charity event or something like that, so I'm jumping in here. I'm on the carries. We'll find out his score. Josh, Elliott Wolf is on the case. We have Elon, Chuck as well. He is behind the boards, and we are here to talk everything, Canucks, and everything National Hockey League with you as well. Game two would sound like a final gets going tonight as well. Now before we get to all that, let's get to the open. Welcome to the open. That's your home. Are you too good for your home? Answer me. I think Dan Riccio is finding the cup really well. Is he finding home enough here today when he's playing golf? That's not happy Gilmore there. That's just Riccio calling into the station. That'd be like a good fear of home. He might be. We are going to talk to Don Taylor and Shane Malloy, that's coming up a bit later in the show. We'll talk draft with Shane Malloy. We haven't really talked draft much on the show. Can you believe it? We're into June. It's June 10th, and we haven't really talked draft on this show because the Canucks, we're playing off team this year. They went deep. Two rounds deep. They don't have a first round pick. No first round pick. No second round pick. No picks in the top two rounds. But who knows if the Canucks do acquire any picks, we'll talk to Shane about this draft that's coming up a bit later plus Don Taylor and everything to do with the Stanley Cup final. Now, where we wanted to start things, however, is the Canucks off season, which continues very quietly so far. All we're hearing outside of some coaching moves, and we'll talk about Jason Krog, who's joined the team as a skills coach, replacing Yogi, who has now moved on to being an assistant coach. So, wait, the team made a higher? Yes. They didn't cheap out, and say like, "Oh, the internal hires only." They filled vacancies? Yeah, they filled vacancies. Oh, interesting. Now, we'll talk about that. Interesting. Coming up in a little bit. The bigger news, and I wouldn't say it's bigger news. We talked about this quite a bit last week, but the Canucks and Elias Lindholm, and some thought that the Canucks may have offered a seven-year deal worth $7 million earlier treatment today on the Jeff Merrick Show and also on the $32 podcast. On Sunday, Manchin mentioned that Lindholm is probably not coming back to Vancouver because he said no to that offer. Now, things can always change, and they've always say those things, but right now it looks like, according to Elliot Friedman, it looks unlikely that Elias Lindholm is coming back. So, the question that we have now is if they don't bring Lindholm back, first, what does it tell us that the team is willing to do? If they offered Elias Lindholm seven times seven, what does that tell you about their ambitions this offseason? At the very least, they'd be willing to spend $50 million somewhere. At the very least. It doesn't necessarily mean third-line center, doesn't necessarily mean Lindholm that to me that there is big ambition to spend some money. That is the very least. And obviously, look, they got so much cap room, which is bizarre to say and make. I think they have the sixth most cap space heading into the offseason. But that there will be a big swing. It's just a matter of where it is going to be spent. Yeah. And I think they clearly want to have some real needle-moving players, and if they're willing to spend seven times seven, that tells you to probably willing to spend more too on the right player. 100%. And you've got to remember, too, that's paired with what they think they can get Philopronic because he's a restricted free agent. So if you pair those two dollars together, they believe they can improve and spend over 14, 15 million dollars on two players. Yeah. So you think of like the financial commitment that is, they're doing it under the reality that we're going to be a better team doing those. Yeah. And I think the question then becomes which other high-end player are they going to go after? Yeah. But the other part of it is you don't necessarily have to go after another high-end player. And it doesn't have to be seven million dollars? No. It can be more. It can be more. It could also be less. Sure, of course. Where you go market-wise because the way we've looked at things, if you start looking, okay, who are the options? And I think there's another discussion to be had about how much do they prioritize having another center behind Patterson and J.T. Miller, especially a higher-end center. And I will talk about that coming up in a second. But before that, who are some players to look at that? Now, in free agents, we all know who those guys are, right? Like we mentioned it before, Genssel, if he gets there and where it is, he is going to get to free agency. The question is, does he have his eyes set on a team down south? And if that's the case, well, he's not coming to Vancouver. Nonetheless, Ryan Hart fits the bill of a high-end player. But again, is he more than more likely to stay in Florida with the Panthers or go to another American team? And then that's pretty much it outside of Stephen Stamkos or Jonathan Marsha so. And that pretty much is a list when it comes to higher-end players, unless you want to put Matt Duchenne in that category, which I don't. I think in terms of like higher-end guys, it would be Genssel, Ryan Hart, Lynn Holman, and Stamkos would be the next guy because of his age. But do you have a chance of landing Genssel, Ryan Hart, or Stamkos or even Marsha so? It might even be taking. The thing is though, those last two guys, it's the age is the thing that kind of. I actually like Marsha so, like, I look, I'm big fan of both of those players. It's just, if we're talking about $49 million, $50 million, I don't see those two guys getting $50 million in the market. But how about the AAV, remove the total money, right? So let's say if you look at a guy like Marsha so, I'm into the Marsha so market if it's a three-year deal. If it's four years, I get a little squeamish on it. But if you can get him three years, even that's seven, three times seven, that's 21 million, right? But you're talking about solving your winger issue with Patterson. And you'd find a guy that would play next to him. The question is, is he going to get to market and can you extend yourself to four years if that's what it's going to take to sign him? And is that really the player that truly fits the bill for what they're after? Like he's a right-winger, right-shot. I know they'd love to add a left-shot as well on the way. Yeah, it's, that might be the way I don't want to go. But it's more about what's best for the team rather than a statement of the player. Right. Cons might the winner and just an unbelievable player. But for me, it would make more sense to buy long-term stability with Lee as Patterson than someone who's here for two, three years. Right. But the thing is, is that available to you? Well, we're only discussing free agent options. So is there another way to solve the riddle of where to spend seven, some odd million dollars? Right. And I think in terms of free agency, you can always do it cheaper. And we talked about this before, go with some cheaper options. A couple of guys are on shorter term deals. You can look to do that potentially to bridge a gap until you, like you're a Mac, you're perhaps somebody else coming in to play along Patterson or even higher up in the lineup with JT Miller even perhaps because as much as Besser and Miller are a thing, you can probably upgrade on Souter. You can probably still upgrade on the second winger for Patterson as well. And if you're adding another third line center with caliber, you may want to have another guy to play there. Well, if you're flirting with spending seven million dollars somewhere on the roster, you can improve on pretty much everyone except for Patterson and McCabe, or sorry, Patterson and Miller. I was reading McCabe's name. So Miller, you can improve on the camp. And Hughes. Right. That's like, if you, if you were willing to spend seven million dollars, you can improve on Carson Susie. Oh, yeah. You can improve on Connor, like you, you can improve anywhere on the roster. And that to me is where it gets interesting that is this is about finding a specific style of player, like a Lindholm, or is this about just finding someone who's awesome at their job? Because the, the thing with Lindholm is it's not just like seven million dollars a guy you want to retain and you can play third line center. He would be one of the best third line centers in the league. Yeah. And he's a PK specialist. He's a a matchup guy, matchup guy, he's a face off guy. Like you're getting, you're, you're filling ideas and roles on your roster. It's not just, oh, let's just get someone who's good. If you went and got a defensive specialist as a D man, or just someone who pairs with queen, whatever it is, go get best in class in something, not just go spend the money. So I don't disagree with that best in class, however, do you include defense there? I would just say just best in class of this guy in across the NHL, like whatever position in someone's texting him, like what about Nick Eelers? Okay. Well, that's a guy who incredibly can be a fantastic playmaker. I'm not the biggest fan, but he's got obvious talents to his game. Like he's got speed. He carries the puck well, creates for others. Like that to me is someone that fits a building of he might be best in class at something. Well, it could be a winger, it could be a defender, and I'm not even saying right-handed or left-handed, just someone who is solid at their thing. So in terms of the back end then, would you look at a higher end defenseman who would shore up your defense? So you would, would you keep her own and add somebody else then? Again, in this reality, it might, it might have to be her own account too, right? Well, then, but if it's her own account, then you still have money. You still have money. You still have to add. Correct. And you still need to add another defenseman because all you're doing is replacing her own. It could still add somebody else. The question is, but if you got like a true blue, another like top pairing demon, like I don't view Phillip, I think Phillip Hornock is good, but I mean like the regression proof, this guy is, carries his own line. Like we don't even have to build a reality of like, do we think Phillip Hornock can carry his own pairing? It's, you just, you plug and play this guy, you know, because you've seen it at the NHL level that this guy is stout at what he does. So on the trade market though, which, who are some defenseman that you could go after at that level? That's a thing. And they're right. It's a little different. Like it's tough. Well, and then also the guys who may be available, do the Canucks even have the assets to acquire them? And I think that's also the issue they have with nature. It's like, hey, that's a player that they want a very high end package for. And are the Canucks able to swing that type of deal? And if they're spending their assets, are they spending it on a defenseman or on a forward? Because I think they look at the free agent market and say they're a bevy of right hand defenseman this year. They have Hughes, they have Soussia on the left side. So all you're trying to solve on the left side is essentially a third pair guy, which becomes a lot easier. But are they? Yes. But are they spending the assets they have on another, on another, on another defenseman? A righty or a lefty? Either one. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's the thing. Well, I don't know that they would do right. Like we've sat here. We talked about like someone like Zidorah, right? Right. And comparable to Carson Soussia, a little bit of contract inflation. But like if you missed it on that, to me, like it would be really interesting because the, the, the Ian Cole minutes that have departed are our departing. The, the role you have to take over is the number one penalty killer defensively for this group. Like he played the most minutes PK. So that's the role you're taking over. And if you wanted to spend $7 million on a, on a guy who's a two-way ability and can PK and then then fits in the style of like how Nikita Zidorah off played, that could be a marquee player. And you could just build the right side of the defense differently knowing that in like two years, like we don't want to overspend on the right side because Tom Willander is coming through. Well, that's, I think that's the other part of it. If you have Willander on the right side, but I think Huronik is the guy that truly do want to keep. Sure. The number just comes down to what the number is. And the thing, I think that I'm thinking about the most at this point, especially if they don't bring Lynn home back and they don't, aren't able to get some of those bigger and forwards, do their, does their next move happen via trade? Mm hmm. Is that more likely? If it's for Ronik, right? Cause they're, their best asset is probably for the product. And someone's going to miss out on the D right handed D market because I imagine there's some teams looking at this and salivating and thinking like Tanev, Demello, Roy, Walker, Keri, Pesci, someone's going to miss. Well, I mean, even today, uh, Dollywood mentioned if Chadfield makes it to market, the Canucks will be interested in a jail and chat field type, which fits kind of the bill of down your lineup a little bit. I mean, if you keep Huronik, you have Huronik, Myers and Chadfield, you probably live with that for your right side, for instance. I think there are enough righty defenseman that no team is, is right now, I think overextending via trade for a righty. And I think that puts them in a bit of a tough spot with Philip Huronik because if a team is looking to make a choir right handed defenseman, right? They're, they're different players. We're talking like 100% fill the depth chart, but like, well, no, like, it's something like Montour. Yeah. Like he might make it to market. He might be, it might even be hard for Flora to keep him like that's a legitimate right handed defenseman. But the team that misses on a Montour, are they going to jump to, you know, Alex Keri to be like, Hey, we, we need you to fill our power play. That's, that's not a like for like switch for me. But here's the thing, how many teams are looking for a righty, righty defenseman on the power for these like three or four teams, maybe. Mm hmm. And are they looking to solve all that tonight? I wonder if as much as they want to make the Huronik trade, are they even able to really make a good one by the draft? That's fair. That's fair. But then it gets complicated because arbitration, right? So I think it's, it's one of those. But if you have a trade for Huronik, they're, they're giving them the money, right? But I just wonder if the best move for them ultimately ends up just being extending him. Mm hmm. And if you extend him, it'd be fine, which is fine, right? But it still means that you got that money to spend upfront. Right. And, and I wonder if we see them go after somebody via trade. Like, I just wonder if that's what we see happen, because you can fill out, like, people are texting in, like, to folding and stuff. Yeah, you can sign a toddler to folding or to go after to folding. But you can do that reality, even if you spend, like, if you brought back Lindholm. Well, well, that's the thing. If you're not bringing Lindholm back, like, you have room to do something much bigger. Mm hmm. Plus one of those players, right? And if the team wants to really take a step next season and they want to be better than what they were last year, well, you have to find a way to upgrade on Lindholm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And now, here's the thing too, is I think we get stuck at times trying to build what the playoff roster looks like in the off season. There's going to be holes, okay? You don't have to solve the playoff lineup for training camp. They're going to go through the season. And that's why we've talked about, hey, is Noah Jules, are you going to play 60, man? Because that's, I think that's fine from October to January. But if you're in the mix, you're going to want to make an improvement there. So, so you don't need to spend all your assets right now and have it all locked up and come and trade dead like you make no changes. You just need to do, like, get everything to a certain threshold. And for what you were just talking about there is, like, if that move isn't available just yet, do you just kind of paper over it and say, hey, like, Teddy Blueger will be great for us. And then we'll go add the guy at some point, like Blueger Third Line from October to March is more than capable. Well, for instance, what they could do is, and I know this isn't super, people aren't going to be super excited about an off season like this, but you could actually get yourself to be about three and a half million under the cap, even with an output Pullman on LTIR to try to accrue as much cap series as possible this year and give yourself some real cap space about a trade deadline to make moves of those things if those things happen. But how, how enamored do you think fans would be if the connects have this type of off season where they sign jail and chat field, right, they bring her on the back, they sign jail and chat field to Myers, that's your, that's your blue line. And up front, they end up signing say, I bring his name up a lot. Let me just mention him again. Why not zooker on a one year deal and assign somebody like Mike Hoffman on a one year deal. I mean, I love me and Mike Hoffman. And then you sign a Travis Boyd, like you could do an off season like that where you're literally doing the same thing as you did last year. So you're just getting one year deals, placeholders and give you a little bit of cap space to go into the season. It's super boring. You would not be excited about it, about it, but like you could do that and kick the can down the road. That to me is more inspiring than what you said earlier, like, oh, the March or so thing of like four years, three or four years, but three years I can live with four years. I'm not. But at least this one is like your, your, I always say flexibility is more important than space. That maintains a lot of flexibility of if some of these guys don't work out, you can trade deadline. But also it's like it's off the books. Well, it's also like it's, it, it also sets up for, you know what it is in some ways, it's almost like the off season, uh, Florida had this, this past off season. They signed Evan Rodriguez, right? Uh, they brought me a Mecola in. They made some changes on the back end, but they didn't do anything super significant this off season. Just kind of a little minor moves around the edges. That's kind of what they did. And they ended up being really good and relying on the team. The issue was they didn't lose somebody like Lynn home after roster. Mm hmm. And I just, you can do it that way and then wait for something to come your way. Like I, I heard what Dranson, dog, we're talking about today about how, you know, you can, you know, not use all your assets, then have some money left. And then if somebody big gets moved somewhere, then maybe somebody gets pride free and you can go after that player. The thing about that is I really don't like that at all. Not only that, and also the whole one year thing about just kind of like seeing what happens, all what you're doing is setting yourself up to be reliant on other people making moves for you to have a chance to do something. Yeah. And yeah, exactly. You want to be in control of what you're in control of. And to be honest, like this management group is talking about that all the time. That to me is like letting things happen to you rather than going and attacking the problem. One thing is if your, if your plan is to wait for somebody to become available, like what if they don't become available? And you start training camp and you got, you know, six million dollars in cap space. That's, I don't mind having a little bit of flexibility. Like I said, like I can see, I can see them being like three and a half under, you know, with Tucker Pullman, so that way, or even two and a half under and have Pullman. And now you can actually accrue some cap space, right? That you can do that, but you're not, you're not utilizing L.T.I.R. So you're not using five million in cap space that you could be using. Mm hmm. Well, with already an inflated, um, OEL bio, right this year, right? So it's it would be a step back. It would be a step back to set yourself up with something bigger. I just not sure that's the off season approach they're going to have of all the options that are available. Maybe like go be aggressive is the ideal situation. Yeah. And I think they are like everything I've heard about them, and I mentioned this last week, like you hear that people around the league talk about how Vancouver is up and around everything, not to say they're going to make an ideal, but they're very much aware of everything going on. They're around everything. They're always looking at, okay. Well, they got a lot of spots to fill and it's also one of those things where it's like, I think they're not, they're not, they're also looking at teams that are a move away now, that if they make a move, they're going to have somebody else become available potentially. And that's one thing that you look for here as well, pre draft though, not like summer. No, pre draft, pre free agency. So as soon as you get to the draft or free agency, some things move and all of a sudden a guy's available. Like I think there's things like that. If you want to keep your cap space for June 29th, yeah, that that's, that's just prudent to say, Hey, what opportunities can we not see right now that become available? But if we're talking about, you know, late July, August and we're waiting for something to happen in the market that maybe shakes out and now we can pounce on an opportunity, that, that to me is too stationary. No, yeah, I think you have to be more aggressive. I think they have to solve their issues instead of, you know, being waiting for something to come their way later this summer, later in the trade that liner, perhaps the next off season. I mean, yeah, I don't think you just punt on a year waiting for something to come your way. If you don't, if those things don't come your way. The other player that is was kind of in the news a little bit, well, not in the news, but Elliot mentioned Dakota Joshua being a guy that a number of teams are after because poster boy. Yeah, the size, the scoring has some toughness. There aren't enough players like that around the league nowadays anyways. And the question is how much can Vancouver spend to bring him back? And if somebody's willing to offer him four million plus, like I just don't know if that happens to Vancouver again, unsigned text here. Do you guys not see value in overpaying paying slightly to bring Dakota Joshua back seems like you don't care if he is gone. Hey, if he makes $16 million, congratulations. That's awesome. It's not that we don't care. The question is what do you, what, so the person texting in like, what do you think is overpaying slightly to bring Joshua back? Because sometimes I hear people say that. And then it's like, what do you mean? They're like, well, three and a half million. It's like, well, I don't know. That's not, yeah. And that's not realistic. Right. So I want to see what you mean by overpaying. Yeah. I'd give him three something. I'm not paying to Dakota Joshua four million plus even even with the scariest player type. I would be OK up to like $13 million total money. Yeah, sure. I would be very comfortable with that. You spent that out over four years, sure. Yeah. You honestly, even if it was three years, actually that might be too much. But somewhere around like 12 to $13 million, I'd be more than happy to do. If another team is saying, hey, Dakota, we got 16 for you in that reality, that that's just too much. I've said this before. I think he is the number one free priority. It would be for me. I think you're going to get priced out of Lindholm. You're going to get priced out of the door of the price point and the role and the type of player and the scarcity of that player. To me, is the reason I'd be willing to go to something like $13 million for Dakota Joshua. And I think that's a very, very competitive offer. So in terms of the scarcity, I don't disagree, but how many good playoff games did you have? Like a good handful. Three. Right. But the three. But he's also a player doesn't have a ton of experience. The three were very impactful, like he contributed to wins. So the question here is for me, how much projection do you still see a player that doesn't have a lot of track record, late bloomer, obviously, maybe hasn't shown his best yet. How much more is there in that player? As much as it's projection, though, too, he's thriving in a role that's already important for you. So I think that role for him next season, if you're paying $4 million, the number one non-center penalty killer you have, I think that's difficult to find. And $3 million is not like a huge collar to go over $4 million. So to all of a sudden, you're paying him for, you're playing Garland 5, and what, blue group, $2.5? Yeah. But I think you're trying to create this reality of like, what are we missing out on? Well, you have to value what you get, too. You get a strong penalty killer. It's not about like-- Well, you retain one. But that's a problem solved on your roster. It's this fear of like, oh, you have to make sure you get value. But like, what's the value he provides for you, too? I know. You're getting something credible for that money. You are. But he also hasn't shown the consistency yet in his career. Like, would it shock you that next season it comes up, has a step back season? Thirteen goals? Yeah. Right. But it's not just the goals scoring for me, it's that he's won a role that's important for you. Yes. But don't get me wrong. That part shouldn't drop out. People had inconsistencies doing it all year. He came to the off-training camp not being where they needed him to be. It took him like, what, 10, 15, 20 years to this season to get healthy, scratch early in the year. You want something about stuff like that? If he came into camp, like, best shape of his life and all this stuff, wouldn't a lot of people say it's like, oh, well, you're only doing it for the contract? No, who would say that? I do it if-- Well, yeah. But we say about talking about-- I'm not talking about those people, I'm talking about us having this-- People say that wrote Tyler Myers. Well, I don't say it. Who cares? But I'm talking about us. The same reality of like, worrying about a narrative. I'm not worried about a narrative. I'm not talking about-- You just said he came into camp. Who's narrative? I'm telling you, his track record has been spotty and inconsistent. But that's his track record. But you're holding it against him. No. If he came into camp-- Wait, wait, wait. I'm saying he didn't show up to camp the way he needed to. He's showing inconsistencies. There was-- There was a game from that if you don't want to pay a certain amount. What do you mean, like, it's his track record. You don't you evaluate his track record and say this is what I-- these are my concerns. If another-- if a player showed up, right? In the best shape of his life, right? And it's like, I'm going to go get paid this year. That's a bit weird too. And there's concerns-- What's weird about that? Because there's concerns of people saying like, oh, you're only doing it for the big payday. You're talking about it's like, you didn't maximize your off season to get ready for the season. Yeah. And it's like 27 years old. It's a valid concern. Like, I'm not saying that. It's just the flip side of that coin is like, Tyler Myers has a career year. And there's people that don't want to pay Tyler Myers right now because he had a career year and a contract year. So it's like, you can be fearful of the exact same thing of the best case scenario of what you're talking about. Well, I mean, I'd still be concerned about someone having a contract. You're talking extremes. All I'm saying is, on Dakota Joshua-- That doesn't extreme, though. But what's an extreme? Him showing up as a training cap and getting healthy scratch early in the season? Like, that's not an error. That's not an extreme. But he overcame it. I disagree. And developed into my big goals. Has he shown-- are you confident that this player is going to be consistent in his off season approach, in season approach, and be able to maximize his career? Yeah. Okay. I have questions. I have a level of confidence. Yeah. Confidence? It's difficult to do. P.K. 100%. That is very difficult to become a reliable penalty killer. And that is tougher than, like, I'm going to be Alex Chase on and hang out in front of the net to me and score 11 goals and I can go get the next contract. I think it's tougher to become a P.K. or than just be the big guy in front of the net. Sure. But he P.K. last year as well. It's not like he wasn't P.K. But he was much better. He was much better this year. No, I'm disagreeing. Much better this year. All I'm saying is, I have some concerns about it. And that's why I don't want to pay him $4 million plus. All right. We're going to talk to Don Taylor on the other side as well as satin bick and Josh, do we have an update on how Dan Reacho is doing with his golf round? We do. We do. What's going on here? Well, it's golf music. We're prepared. He has five holes in hole one double hole two double hole three double hole four just a regular bogey. Okay. Whole five just a regular. Just approving. He's eight over through five. He's improving. He's moving well. This is hilarious. You guys found great news. All right. Well, we'll keep you updated on how Dan Reacho is doing with his golf round, but we'll get the Don Taylor next right here on Canucks Central. Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Strance. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. (bell dings)
