[MUSIC PLAYING] Fan Morning, Joe Sports at 590 to fan Ben Ennis. Brent Gunning. Sorry, everything has to be a LEAFs discussion, except not sorry. Take that back. Good. A threat and a promise. Everything has to be a LEAF discussion. I mean, we had-- we just had to stand like a final game yesterday. Yeah. The others lost. Yeah. How long did it take for me to get into the LEAFs of it all? And I regret some of it, because of your impassioned defense of this LEAFs team that's won absolutely nothing. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. One around. One around. Yeah. And got to game seven over time. It's the Boston Bruins. I feel like you're kind of purposely mistating my point a little bit on that, but that's OK. Anyways, perhaps there will be a different look, significantly different look. We know there'll be factually different looks, a bunch of free agents. And TJ Brody is going to wave goodbye. Craig Brube, very angry looking. He's angry looking. Crossing his arms while having coffee. Oh, apparently, Max Domi's representatives have had a conversation with Brad for living to this point. We'll see. There's some common ground between them, of course, Tyler Burtuzzi, also appending free agent. The Max Domi, who famously had more points while playing for a team that went to a conference final. And that got him a one year show me dealing Toronto. And now obviously, a lot of term and a lot of money coming, because that's how the spot works. Great. Yeah. Great. Yes, and there's-- yeah. There's a reason why Tyler Burtuzzi, too, chose the one year deal with the most notable NHL franchise. Anyways, speaking of that notable NHL franchises, I mean, once the cup final is overdone with everybody, we'll be talking about one thing. I mean, unless I'm-- Mac, Mac, one celebrating. Unless a guy I'm overdoing, I don't think I am, that it's going to-- all the attention leading up to the draft and free agency will be on Mitch Marner. OK, so we'll talk to Frank Swervelli later on in the program. But let's play you a clip from his most recent podcast, DFO podcast, Daily Faceoff. I've said it all along. People have said that I'm-- and I think people have tried to pour cold water on it with speculation. Oh, you know, Frank said single digit percentage that Mitch Marner is a Toronto Maple Leaf. I stand by that. I know what his campus said, and I'm not doubting them at all in their ability or interest to hold firm on the full no move. It's just that I think the Leafs are going to make a play, and they're going to basically back him into a corner over the next three weeks that says, Mitch, it's been great, but we're moving on. So whether it's now or eight months from now, your time's up. OK, so again, we'll hear a strife in the horse's mouth later on in the program. Would that change anything materially for you or for Mitch Marner? I mean, you're understanding of how this is going to play out with Mitch Marner. Would it change it for me in terms of his campus desire? No, I think it's very obvious that his camp wants to play this out this way. The question I have about this-- and I think everyone has-- is what does that mean exactly in terms of if the Leafs kind of force their hand or force the issues? Because I think you ask 10 different people. And I don't just mean your buddies that you text about this with. Go ask people in the game what it looks like. And I think they'll have differing opinions on what exactly playing hardball looks like. And how different is it when it's a-- I mean, Shanahan's still at the top, but when it's a different regime, different GM, different head coach, and honestly, it feels like a different Brendan Shanahan that's at the center of this all now as well. So that's kind of my read on it is I started out believing that Marner would not start the season as a leaf. And then it sounded like there was more scuttle butt of him. Maybe he would. I think Frank's right on this. I think there is a very small percentage chance that Marner is a leaf by the time September rolls around. I'd almost respect the hell out of-- not almost. I would respect the hell out of Mitch Marner if he did just say, OK, granted, understand your opinion. And even if it's not said in those explicit terms, that's clearly-- even if Brad's who are living in the Toronto Maple Leafs have made up their mind and there's not a trade that's coming from Mitch Marner, there's no extension coming. So whether they say explicitly you're gone or not, like that's how it's going to play out. And he's not going to be traded at the deadline. I find it hard to believe that the Leafs are going to be a seller. And even if they're not a seller, like they're just not going to trade Mitch Marner in a season in which you're presumably in a playoff spot and looking good and Mitch Marner's very good. Even though you're going to lose him for nothing, you're not going to trade him in season. No. I can't see a world where that happens. But they're speaking of mentalities and the difference between Conor McDavid and every player in the Leafs core four, this would be a shift to me. Tremendous shift from Mitch Marner. If he said, got it. And I understand where you're coming from. I haven't performed in the postseason. I think during the regular season, I've been plenty good enough. And maybe injuries are part of the reason why you didn't see my best. I've also had moments where I've been pretty damn good in the postseason. That's fine. That's fine. You need to see it? Watch this. Watch this. And you say that I'm done no matter what happens this season. That's obviously not true. Because if we not even reach the ultimate goal where everybody gets extensions and that's obvious, stupid, deep talk about, Leafs win a Stanley Cup. Mitch Marner, eight year, whatever, like we can, everybody can make the Austin Matthews. We can sure, whatever, we can all live in that world. But even if there is like modest postseason success, or even hard to imagine less than that. But Mitch Marner looks like the best player on the ice in the postseason. There of course isn't about face that's possible where Brad for Living says, OK, you did it. You proved to us the thing. And there's just no way we can let you walk away. We've shown to the world that we can make it work with you, plus the 11 million of John Tavares is coming off the books. And the salary cap is going up another 5%. Yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda. I would be blown away if Mitch Marner said, I can put all that on the back burner. I can deal with the animus that may exist between me and the front office. I can put Craig Barouba in a tough spot in his first year as the head coach of this hockey team, which also is a component here. And I can deal with the fan angst, at least early on. But that'll all go away when I play, the way I'm capable of playing. And I believe so much of my abilities and my skill, even when the games get tough in the postseason, that watch this. Watch what I do and watch what position you put yourself into. Yeah, I think there's an element that he wants to believe that. I just think that's a thought that you have in July. Maybe you have it in August. But I think that as the season gets closer and closer, let's also not dance around this. Deserved or not, there's been no player from the core that is war in this more than Marner, right? Matthews is, you know, your mileage may vary on this, but to a certain extent, unassailable. Because of the goal scoring and the clip he does it at and having, you know, a few big moments in... Having no goals against the Panthers two years ago was a serious conversation. Yeah, and then everyone else stunk in that series too. And then he had the season he had after that. So I think that he is as close to from the core four kind of unassailable. Kneelander, he was always paid so much less that there was an insulation that happened. Now he's making more than these guys. And I imagine that, but he has also changed the player. He has been to become commensurate with that. We'll see if that continues. And John Tavares, I think there is always going to be a section and hand up, I'll include myself in this, that finds it hard to keep too much on the guy who finally did decide to come home. And did he take way less? No, but he took less than he could have got elsewhere to be a leaf, whereas Marner doesn't have any of that. So I do feel like he has been the guy of the core four that's worn it the most more or less year in and year out. There's been other guys who have worn it alongside him, but there's never been a year that he hasn't been a massive part of this conversation. And I just, I wonder how he, how much he wants to do that, if it's not an off season of it. But it's a whole regular season. And if he's gone, when things go bad, it is human nature that if Neelander is locked up and Matthews is locked up, that they fan angst is, and look, if Marner is on a hundred, if he's having the season Neelander had last year, of course that over, that paper's over it, but he's never had that season. So to think he's necessarily going to, or to feel like he's going to, is a little bit of a fool's errand to me. I think he should be very confident that fan angst and the other stuff that is unquantifiable and just like the awkwardness will go away pretty quickly as long as he has a normal regular season. - This is where it gets to how dirty a pool or how hard well this leaves from the point. - Well, this is what I want to get. Like if you are, if the messaging is like Frank says, and obviously it wouldn't be exactly that where Brad for living is like, you're gone. You know now our next off season, take your pick. It wouldn't be quite that harsh, but it might be, I mean along the lines of, hey, we're not going to sign you to an extension no matter what kind of a regular season you have. So like there's probably a lot more financial security. If you open yourself up to a trade and lots of people will sign you to that deal. So where do you want to go? Let's figure this out. But if you're willing to go closer to, like if you're in for penny in for a pound here, like if that's where you're at, why not just go full bore? And at the very least say, okay, you want to play hard ball? You're not going anywhere. You want to act like the tough guy. You believe enough in your skills, which is your absolute right. It's also our right to take away your A. And there's actually also a case to be made that the power play that's underperformed. You don't get to play on it. - Yep. - And like we can't, like we're also still trying to win hockey games. So you're going to get your 20 minutes a game. Like we can do things to make it uncomfortable for you. - See, it's interesting that that's where you go. I think all those things are very much in play. I think it starts way before that. I think it starts with the report from insider X of the, I'm just going to throw names out here that may or may not be. It's like the predators and leafs had conversations on a trade and Roman Yossi's name was mentioned. Hmm, where would they be able to find the amount of cap space it would like, that's where I think the pressure ramps up. In season, all that stuff can happen. But guess what? To the point you were making earlier. When the rubber starts beating the road and there's hockey games to be played, Greg Barubay can be as much a part of the furniture around here now and be part of the master plan. He's still going to be coaching when hockey games. And if Marner's going, he's going to be putting them over the boards. And if Marner's going on the power play, he's going to put them out there as well. I think where the hard ball starts is with the leaks of reports of the things the lease wanted to do. Bradger living, it's not going to step to a podium and say, oh yeah, I had this trade lined up. I had that trade lined up. And that guy right there refused to wave as no move. That's not going to happen. But we're going to get it through the tea leaves and read between the lines here of, oh, Leafs link to this player, link to that player. Oh, Pesci had interest in Toronto or something along those lines. Oh gee, why can't they make the money work? Hmm, hmm, fully there's a website. I don't know, like, cap friendly we could go to to look at how this money could work. And you will be able to do it until the draft. That's where I think the hard ball actually begins. Now, all the on ice stuff is there, but he has so much more control over that. There's nothing Mitch Marner can do in the summer outside of saying, I'd like to wave my no move, to get Bradger living or the Leafs or the brass there to ease up on him if that's the way they want to play hard ball. 'Cause that's where I've thought about it. And 'cause I think the public perception stuff, sometimes we say this like it's a negative. Oh, Marner cares so much about how he's perceived. Good, I want you to care. You know why? 'Cause the best way to be perceived better is to be awesome and win. So I'm actually, don't have a problem with it, how much he cares about how he's perceived. But I think that's the way you go about it. - I agree that he is, he does care about the way he's perceived. I mean, he would adamantly tell you that he doesn't. That he doesn't pay attention. - That's poor attention, that's poor. - Anything that he doesn't read anything. - Yeah, I'm social machine. - I've seen old clips of Rick Tockett and all these guys being like, oh, we don't read the paper. And then he's just sitting in his apartment going, I like to prop the sports section up right here so I can read what they're saying. They all do, okay? - You know, it'd be a great way to prove to us that you don't and give us the impression that you really don't care about the way you're perceived or what the conversations are outside of the walls of that locker room. - Yep. - It just refused to weigh the no movement literature. - That's very true. - And say, you know what? Okay, leak whatever you want. You're a mythical Roman Yossi trait that yeah, that would be a tough one. (laughing) - No, but it has to be a name of note. It can't just be like, - Oh, the Leafs had a Middlesex Center and a third pair of defense when they could have gone. - Yeah, the Lightning are rebuilding. They're moving off Victor Hedman. Okay, sure, sure, sure, sure. Anyways, I literally don't throw that in my face. I said, I'm just spitballing here. - I would like to think that we'd all be smart enough to be like, well, where is this coming from? - Okay, but then, but there's plenty of space between Middlesex Defender and Roman Yossi, where you could start leaking names and get people excited. - No, question, but if you're a Mitch Marner, you're like, you know, I don't care, you know, how much worse could it be than me taking this team to task and missing some training camp, the slings and arrows that I've, and being the most notable team in the Stanley Cup playoffs and the biggest voices in media, both in this country and south of the border, I've been the number one target for Paul Bissonette, Kelly Rudy, like everybody have their shots at me. How much worse could it really get from Mitch Marner? - I think the hometown part of it matters, 'cause that's where you're not gonna see an explicit report from, you know, like a person of note saying, and because Mitch Marner's from Toronto, he should care more about doing right, but there is a massive undercurrent of that, and he shouldn't feel like he has to do right by a team that is probably trying to jettison him right now and saying we're not gonna pay you, but we also have to be real, that this guy clearly does care about the perception, and it is possible it goes the other way. It's possible he cares so much, says I'm gonna prove all these people wrong. Great, I think all parties involved with level motivated Mitch Marner. - What do we like more than a redemption story? - Oh, it's the best, but the problem is, is that there isn't one that could happen for him until the playoffs. - Right. - There is just flat out. He can go out as well. - 100, 20 points. - Yeah, great. - Season, finally getting there. - Right, and there's no regular season, I don't think that would make an extension palatable either. That's the thing. - I don't disagree, but I also think that, don't take someone's word when they're at their most mad, like the guy screaming in a rage saying, "Ah, there's that in the third." It's like, "Oh, I'll ask him how he feels "about that in 10 minutes," and I bet it's very different. Should there's some element of that with Mitch Marner saying, "Okay, all right, you're not going to re-sign me." And then it's going to be January, and this team's going to be moving, and Tavares money's going to be just sitting there burning a hole in your pocket for next year. And true living, do you think, now I suppose a little different first year on the job, but I don't think he started the season going, "Yeah, I'm going to capitulate "and give me $12 million, that's what I'm going to do." I don't think that's how he started the year. So I think there is definitely an element from Marner's camp of saying, "Okay, yeah, no, "that's great, you feel that way now. "Let's see how you feel in January "when you're staring at a roster two years from now "that only has Matthews and D-Linder on it." And not that there wouldn't be other pieces of knives or whoever, but of the core for there, you could easily see that happening. - So we started the show, and I made you mad 'cause I talked about the Conor McDavid mentality and the post-game comments, and I was like, "I can't wait for you guys to doubt us, "and it's not supposed to be easy. "It's going to be hard." And I said, "Yeah, boy, it just feels like that mentality "doesn't exist within the walls "of the Toronto Maple Leafs dressing room." - Mitch Marner does this and says, "I can take it all. "I can be the bad guy." - Yeah. - You need someone to put your finger and say, "That's the bad guy, I can be the bad guy for you. "And I don't care because watch this. "I got us, it's not supposed to be easy. "And he does the damn thing in the post-season next year. "Give him the sea." Mitch Marner has the gumption to say, "You know what? "Let me play this thing out. "I'm not going anywhere. "I don't care what you say about me. "I don't care what my perception is within this city. "I don't care. "I believe I'm capable of more." - Probably not during the regular season 'cause I've been out freaking standing. - No. - Selky-- - Yeah, yeah. - Got a final answer. - For you can't do more. - Got 100 points. - It's been pretty damn good during regular season. - Yeah, yeah. - Please be damn good. - You can't do more. - I can carry it over into the post-season, watch this. "Given the proper motivation, I'm betting on myself." - Again, that's Conor McDavid like. I mean, Conor McDavid doesn't have to do that because no one's ever doubted him for one leaping millisecond. - Right, Felizo. - But if he does that, boy, one, it's like, to me, it's a shift in mentality from somebody. - Mm-hmm. - It would be mind-blowing. - Give him the C, he does that. And he leads this team to playoff greatness because he said, "I have personally way more on the line than any of you guys." - Yep. - And he looks like the Leafs best player on the ice. - Yep. - In the post-season through a couple of series victories, God forbid a Stanley Cup final victory. Give him the C. - God, you must be so good at telling your kids bedtime stories. You just pulled that out of thin air, that fairytale land that just happened of Mitch Marner doing all that. I'm not somebody who says Mitch Marner could never get done in the playoffs. - But that's, you gotta admit that that's, okay, well, it's not a likely possibility. That is a possibility. He has the skill. - Yes. - And at times, it's looked like the best player on the ice during regular season's pass. - Mm-hmm. - That is, like, in the realm of limitless possibilities. That's one of them. - Yeah, it certainly is one of them. I just, I go back to the numbers we've seen for games five, six, and seven, I imagine. Unless they're gonna all be series sweeps, in which case, God, what a boring run of the Cup final, it'll be. There's just so much, there's so many more miles to cover from what we've seen. And this could be said about all those guys, okay? This isn't, that's not just a Marner thing. To that, yeah, sure, if he does it, give him the C. But if I do it, you should give it to me too. And I think there's, those two possibilities are closer than I'd like to believe. I'd love to be proven wrong. And I think, obviously, if the Leafs ever did anything, Marner would be a huge part of it. But I don't think we're going to get a put, do I think we'd get a put the team on my back series from them along the way? 1,000%, zero doubt about that. We'd have multiple games of that in other series, I'm sure of it. But I still believe that when this team, when, (laughs) if this team were to ever do it, it's 34, that's during the drink. He is sure. Wouldn't you love it for that to be his mentality though? Oh my God, of course. Wouldn't that be the greatest? Yeah. For him to at least think, and it'd be a little delusional. Well, I'd like all these guys to have some level of delusion, right? This is the thing you have to. You have to have some level of delusion. I agree with that. I also, this is where I go back to kind of what we said at the beginning. It's like, I bet you match Marner enters every postseason. Think and he's going to prove everybody wrong. And then what happens? Same thing that's happened to all the Leafs in the postseason. They had one little modicum of success, then they go play golf and hang out in Arizona. Which, hey, sounds fun to me. But I'd rather be playing now. Yeah, it would be fun. Anyways, the Oilers are playing. Although, golf and Arizona feels like it was too hot. Especially now, it's like 120 degrees. Rodgers has announced an exciting new national contest, brings Stanley home to send Rodgers customers and hockey fans from across Canada to the Stanley Cup final. In Edmonton, Rodgers customers have the chance to win 10 VIP trips for two to attend game four in Edmonton this Saturday. The prize also including travel and accommodation, plus premium viewing at a game day concert featuring Shania, Freaking, Twain, outside of Rodgers Place. Visit rogers.com/stanleycup to enter for your chance to win. And for more details, when we come back, Jason Buchola. Sportsnet hockey analyst. As the fan, "Morning Show" continues, Ben Anis-Frank gunning, Sportsnet 5.90, the fan. Covering the blue jays from an analytical perspective. Jay's talk plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jay's talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan Morning Show Sportsnet 5.90, the fan, Ben Anis-Frank gunning. You don't have this issue, because what, you're 6.3? Yeah, it's 6.4. Wow, it's all person. My wife's always like, you're sure not 6.5. And I'm like, that's when I was confident and life hadn't beaten me down. You've literally lost an inch? I think so, yeah. I'm like right between, I don't think I've ever fully crested 6.5, but yeah, over 6.4. Yeah, 6.3, to me, is the perfect height. So you're into freak territory a little bit? But I'm not. You know what ever looks at me and is like, look at that tall freak. They're like, look at that, man. He has a nice athletic gait and long legs. 6.3 would be good. Oh, okay. Well, I'm closer to it than you, so eat it. No question, but price is right, rules, you win. That's true. I mean, I'm in the same situation. Macklin's Celebrating was in at the combine in Buffalo where, and he was on the sports at pregame yesterday, before game two in Sunrise, Florida. And you could see his reaction because they measured his height. And he's 6 feet, just like me. And now I must be taller than Macklin's Celebrating because I've never had anyone say that I'm anything, but exactly 6 feet tall. I might be bringing a measuring tape tomorrow. But Macklin's Celebrating, not quite 6 feet tall. And you can see his absolute disgust with the official measurement. And I guess he has to go into his first NHL season being 5'11. I could never. I could never. How heartbreaking would that be? Jason Buchola was there, sports and hockey analyst, joins us online right now. How's it going, Jason? The kids actually, you know, you can see some of them just wanted to put a lift in their sheet to get an extra half inch. Yeah. 5'11" and 3/4" and he's demoralized. I think when he's, I think when he's cashing multi-million dollar chest, he's going to be OK at all. And that quarter of an inch isn't going to matter. He's going to feel 6 feet tall at the bank. That's for sure. Yeah. 20 feet tall. No, I mean, Kevin Vax was saying that, like, yeah, they don't check exactly where, if your feet are 100% flat. So maybe, and it meant, I've never felt more related in mentality than Macklin celebrating in my entire life. Because, yeah, it has nothing to do with money, right, Jason? The idea of being 6 feet, as opposed to 5'11" and 3/4, it does. It feels like a difference. Were you there when the reaction shot happened, of him being visibly just distraught at being 5'11" and 3/4 instead of 6 feet? I was actually down in the other corner where the windgate and the chin-ups were going on. So I was more impressed with him on the chin-up bar. Holy shit, the kid's strong. It was incredible. So, yeah, listen, guys, I'm not sweating over that quarter of an inch. But I know, I know, for the bragging rights, that extra quarter means a lot to these kids. Try to remember, who was it who, like, famously couldn't do a pull-up? Was it Reinhardt? Is that-- Was that Sam? Yeah, I said-- OK. Can't you handle that, too? And Casey, yeah, I know. Was that it Reinhardt? I think it was-- yeah, it was Reinhardt. And then it was Casey Middleston. Casey Middleston was doing it. He was looking like he was having a brain hemorrhage at the same time. [LAUGHTER] And he was just using it right up. It was classic. It was a horrible look for the poor guy. But oh, well, he's still in there. What else could we put in there to embarrass them? Like, I didn't even think they'd do this in gym class anymore. But can we get the rope that they have to climb all the way and, like, slap a bell on the ceiling or something? Just trying to think of what else we could do. It's like, you know, things are going to go pretty well for these guys in the next couple of months. Got to keep them in check. Well, it is weird, though, like, so the NFL combine, you do some football things, right? Jason, like, should this not be on skates and not that it should impact your decision-making all that much anyways? You should probably be looking at the previous seasons of their high-level junior play. But, like, yeah, does it make sense to be doing the things that the NHL does that they were combined? I personally wish that we could find a way to do some things on the adjacent ice surface, whether it's just sprints and crossovers and edge work. And, you know, for the volatenders, just some crease movement back and forth, some pushing, some, you know, just some lateral testing, stuff like that. I wish we could do that because it's more relatable for me. But, I don't know, the sports scientists seem to think that they get their head wrapped around whatever is going on there right now. And that's good enough for me on balance. But, yeah, I mean, listen, I really don't care if you can jump 25 inches in the air, if you can't close a gap in the biggest game of the year, or if you have the puck on your stick-like blue shard last night, you pass it to the wrong team under duress. You know, those things kind of matter to me a little bit more, actually. Yeah, that was a rough one for him, but it's very hard. They should have a drill for that, of like, pass it to the right guy. Yeah. Anyways, so it is the silly season for most teams, except for two, who are still playing in the Stanley Cup final, where we're starting to hear some rumors bandied about. And, of course, the Maple Leafs are going to be in the market for a goaltender, either through free agency or through trade. And one of the names that they've been associated with has been Jacob Markstrom, who's also on the radar of the New Jersey Devils, who have the 10th overall selection. I don't know if that would be part of the package to go get a Markstrom. How valuable do you think the 10th pick in this draft is? The 10th pick still has good value. You know, like, for me, my list is coming out today, but sneak peek like a 10. I've got Sam Dickinson, the London Knight defenseman. So clearly, you know, that's a left-shot top pairing defenseman on my list, you know, so I don't know how this is all going to fall, but there's names in that range that definitely are top pairing defenseman or top two forwards. I guess it just depends where you think you are as an organization, i.e. New Jersey. Obviously, the Devils are coming off the season that they needed more stops, but they also had a lot of different things going on there that were unfortunate injury-wise. You know, Markstrom at $6 million, if they think it all on, is affordable if he's playing at the top of his game. So I see the strategy. And I think they're in winnow mode. Like New Jersey is ready. Like, I'm sure there's a mandate coming down from the top that we got to be better in next year in terms of going on a deep front and playoffs. So the pressure is on that way as well. So yeah, I see the value. I see it. It'll play in a different way though in time. I'll give you an example. Like Florida traded the Olympic lead draft at 10th overall in Chicago years ago when I was in Florida. And for the Giroud, in the Giroud trade party with Philadelphia a couple of years ago. And of course, that didn't last more than, you know, eight weeks or whatever. And Giroud is wearing a different uniform and tippets, you know, 30 plus gold guy in Philly. But the cats found a different way to attack it. And they're in the Stanley Cup final looking pretty good. So the value of that trade as it as it planes out, that's an example of where you lose at the end of the day. - Is that a trade? If you're moving, or I shouldn't say if you're moving, if you're acquiring the 10th overall pick, is that a trade that you've more or less agreed to with an understanding of maybe you have a couple of players on your board you want to take in that spot? Is that a deal they could do ahead of time? Or is that something that needs to be done on draft day because, you know, a team like the Flames would maybe have a couple of guys in mind and they'd want to be sure they were available or that they just look at 10 as an asset in and of itself. And then they'll kind of select whatever players there. - I think they look at 10 as an asset in and of itself. I think they're going to target, I mean, that would give them three picks in the first round and given the flexibility to, for example, potentially move up from nine, which is their other pick to call it, you know, five or six. So if TJ Ginless falling, I mean, it's a nice story, but I mean, beyond that, he's a great player. And I have a five on my list that he falls to six or if he looks like he's falling, you know, just kind of pick up the phone and say, you know, to Utah, for example, or even Montreal, like we'll give you nine. And I think it's 28 that they have to move up into the slot here. So it would give them even more flexibility that way. The rest of the day also have to be very comfortable with what they have in goal, you know, to make a trade like that. But it does feel like Markstrom, that whole thing with Marky, like the noise around that, it's a trade deadline and there's got to be a lot more stories behind the scenes. It just feels uncomfortable, like that relationship's coming to an end one way or the other. - Yeah, and they got a ready-made replacement in Dustin Wolf, whether he can carry over his, his age, else success will be another question, but no, he's that their next in goal in Calgary. So it doesn't feel like, and, you know, maybe the Leafs push more chips into the middle of the table for Markstrom, but yeah, I mean, partly because they don't have the assets that the devil's team has and also partly because of the personal relationships it feels like between the Flames and the Maple Leafs. It's hard to imagine them figuring out a deal, the Land's Jacob Markstrom in Toronto. It does feel like everybody's kind of made their piece with Laurent Broswan. Apparently they're being like mutual interest between he, pending free agent and the Toronto Maple Leafs. He had a great season. Last year in Winnipeg, same percentage to 927. As the most starts he's ever made in his National Hockey League career, he made 22, backing up Connor Hellebuck. We know the injury concerns that follow Joe Wall around for his entire career. How comfortable would you be if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs going into a season with the goaltending tandem of Joe Wall and Laurent Broswan? - Oh boy, I wish I could be jumping through Hoops. I mean, you know, Bruce Wall's a real good steady backup goaltender. I don't know where his threshold is, well, guys, and that's a concern for me. And then conversely, it's the same on Joe Wall. Like, I mean, how durable is Joe? So, you know, you're in a pickle a little bit here. You know, if Bruce Wall can eat 35 games at, you know, close to what he did last year. And I mean, I think that at 22 games, those numbers jump off the charts. But as you know, it gets a lot harder when you get into the 30s, et cetera. So am I going to be completely satisfied? I think I'm going to be on balance if Wall was healthy. More excited about the tandem than I was, you know, even though San Antonio, as Samson, I went on that run, you know, a little bit. You know, I still feel better with the tandem that I did with Samson off being in my mind, unpredictable at times. More often than not, like my trust factor has always been kind of relatively low there. So I feel better that way. But not over the moon, there's still some risk there. - So from, we've seen it in the past in this market. I mean, I imagine we're going to see it in a couple of weeks here when Bertuzzi and Domi ring the bell on some deals that are bigger than the one year deals we took. There's not really a downside of coming in as a mercenary forward or even a defenceman, quite honestly. It tends to work pretty well for those guys. With goalie, I can see the downside of coming into a market like Toronto on a show me deal where you want to prove where you are, you know, sunlight can illuminate a lot of things good or bad. Do you think goaltender's view coming to Toronto as the same kind of show me opportunity as position players do? Just given the pressures of the market and how big a factor goal-tending always is? - I don't think that I think that Toronto is a market that you have to have exceptionally thick skin to begin with. And when you come in as a goal-tender, you know, you just said it the best way possible. Like it's always shining on you. And when you let in a lemon, I mean, you know, you're going to hear about it. Not only, you know, from the people in the stands that it happens more than once, but certainly in media circles. And it's a lot of pressure. So, but, you know, I guess I'm a little bit old school when it comes to this stuff. Like, I don't care where you land in the National Hockey League. The amount of pride and pressure that you should take along that comes with that job. And when you're getting paid the kind of money these guys are being paid to be pro athletes. You know, you have to have an expectation. So maybe that's why it costs a little bit more for some of these guys to come to Toronto, you know, as well, you know, there's a cost of limiting expense. But maybe there's a built-in expense too of the stress and the pressure that it takes to be a Toronto Maple Leaf. Yeah, playing net in Toronto. It's been a while, hasn't it? Since we've been sitting there talking about, you know, the two Joes and the Pockmans and the Belf Wars and you know, you can start going through it. It's, we're still looking for that guy to, for the team to take deep into the playoffs. - Yeah. And Joe Wallace looked like that guy at times. It would have been nice to see him play in game seven against the Bruins, but yeah, can't turn back the clock on that one. Dennis Hildeby is also, you know, a prospect of note and, you know, did sit on the bench at the National Hockey League level briefly for the Toronto Maple Leafs. They were low to have him step onto the ice in an NHL game. Like, does that change next season after he has a more full AHL season under his belt? Is he a factor at the NHL level next season? - You know, he's gonna be turning 23 next year. So he's starting to edge towards, and don't forget, he's got one year left on his deal, like he goes our after next year. So I think that you really have to get a feel for what the future holds and that might include games. I mean, the reality is that, knowing what, like all three of us know today, Joe Wall has not proven to be a durable solution that can run the table, but we hope that changes, obviously. But that does mean that he'll to be, at some point, he's gonna be called upon and you're not gonna be able to put that security blanket over him. So I anticipate him getting some games next year. He's a giant in the net. He had a solid year in the American League. He's a late bloomer overall. Like he was a late draft pick as well, like, you know, age wise. So you can only hide him for so long or protecting for so long. I'm interested to see how his summer goes and what kind of camp he has come a Traverse City at the rookie games. - If I remember correctly and talking to you when there was the possibility of him getting in games and then we saw, as Ben mentioned, how low they were to do that, the big thing kind of holding him back or at least one of them was his handling of the puck. Not that that is not important. Obviously, you need a guy who's confident in kind of all facets of his game to be in the NHL, but it did strike me as a little odd that that was maybe the thing kind of holding him back. How true is it that that could be the thing that's holding him back specifically and how big a piece and maybe an underrated piece of the goal-tending puzzle is that aspect of it in terms of being able to handle the puck? - It's a percentage of it. I mean, if I had to throw a number on it, maybe it's 10%, you know, handling the puck, but both enders who handle the puck and move the puck, like we're not in the Martin Broder age anymore with the Trapezoid and all that other stuff. So, but in the back after the season, it gets more important. You know, teams strategize and teams game plan differently for how a goal-tender handles a puck. You know, for example, obviously, goalies are more comfortable moving it on their forehand and some of them can out that long range, you know, like goal into blue like that thing and are far blue line. But for me, more importantly, for Hill to be, that is part of it, but that's not unusual for European goal-tenders. There's not a lot of European goal-tenders who aren't created in Haley's pocket first. But more importantly, for Hill to be was just, you know, using his massive stature to his advantage and never getting outside the post. There was a lot of times when I was watching him. So if you can imagine it's coming down the, his blocker side and, you know, he's, he's butterflying or if he's pushing it across laterally, you know, his right leg ends up outside the post and it's almost wrapped around the corner of the net, which exposes the, the, the far post and you lose your, your, your size advantage when, when that happens. So, overexposing himself a little bit just because he's probably getting used to the smaller rice and we'll have to move as much in his mind compared to where he came from before. He improved on that exponentially as the year went along and he's ready for North American game now, guys. He's, he's, he's close to NHL, right? - I mean, he's got an NHL-ready nickname, which is for me, like half the battle, the Hill to Beast. I gotta see him at the end. - That goes, right. That immediately goes top five NHL nicknames that we've got. Like we don't do them anymore. - No, I know. - It's clear. - Rather than the monster. I don't know what a monster came from years ago. - Yeah, he was a monster to the Leafs. How dare he did that to us, yeah. - Yeah, that was a rough one. Before that you go, Jason, I wanna ask you about this cap-friendly thing because I use it all the time. Brian uses it all the time. I imagine you use it all the time too, Jason, right? It's the best publicly available source of information when we've got with that we have to evaluate each team's individual cap circumstance. I would have assumed that these NHL teams had their own internal thing. I was a little bit surprised and confused as to why the Washington Capitals felt like they needed to take it away from me. Can you explain what your understanding is of cap-friendly and why the Capitals thought that they needed to buy it? - Well, I've got an insight. I don't have all the information from Jamie Davis and Dominic Zim, but I am a partner at Cap-Friendly. I was one of the guys that I haven't provided discovery reports for Cap-Friendly over the last year. And we sat down recently and out of the discussion. They didn't reveal that this was going on, but obviously that the combine is starting to leak it up and everybody was hearing about it. It's a little bit curious, I guess. It's a great business opportunity for first of all the guys at Cap-Friendly to, you know, these guys are really smart and they're fantastic individuals, so good on them. Curious that Washington, I guess, doesn't have something like this internally already or something close to it, because my understanding is most teams have built out these types of systems on their own. So obviously there's a strategy above my grade grade, you know, with their API, which is nerd speed for information that's being shared, you know, from website to website. And there must be something in there, a tool that they feel that is super valuable that they can't allow anybody else to have, but the general public won a loss. Now, our friends at Puckpedia, they must be jumping through hula hoops this morning. - Yeah, there's a vacuum there. And yeah, Puckpedia at the moment, I guess, is like the go-to, but there's still time for you to get a website up and running there, Jason, like, yeah, maybe we should have a conversation offline here, and then we can put something together. - Let's do that, and with the five minutes that I have left in every day right now, as I prepped for the draft, I'll just build another cap from the website. - Sounds good, man. - You said it, not me, get to work. Chop, chop, Jason. - Big time of the year for you. We appreciate you jumping on with us. Thanks, Jason. Anytime I can hang with you to 5'11" and 3/4" guys, so it's a good morning. So enjoy the rest of your day. Stay tall, hang in there. - Thanks, buddy. Jason, Buko, SportsCenter, Hagean, and analysts, I will need to stay tall. I am tall, okay? - Yeah, people are saying it, definitely. - I think the average height for North American male is like probably 5'10", so I'm certainly above that. And I've never once been officially measured at less than six feet. - I don't have a ganglin celebrating problems. - We'll see. I'll bring a tape measure in here tomorrow and I'll make you stand and even make you take your shoes off. - Yeah, no cheating with the shoes either. - Yeah, that's fine. - Okay. - Not an issue. - I also wasn't gonna bog down the exit 'cause it was very clean, but I don't like Buko lumping me in with that. - Has he never met you? - No chance. And if he had, it's like, I feel like I'm very bad at like when I introduce myself to someone, I'm like, I work at the fan. They're like, what do you do? - Nevermind, I don't care anymore. So even if I had met him, I don't think he'd ever make the connection, but I just wanna go on record as not being lumped in with anybody that's 5'11" and 3/4", or six feet tall. - No, no, no, you're not. - Okay, just, and you're not normal tall, either you're freakish tall. - Again, I think you're in the freak zone of six, three, and above. - My buddy, I think I'm in the sweet spot. - No, you almost were there. - No, you should, honestly, you're the 5'11" and 3/4" of freaks. - Oh, it's tall? - Yeah, like you should wish you were six, three. - No, no, no, no, no. - If you were six, three, you'd be in the nice, sweet spot of one. - Okay, now it's tall. - Here's the one place where you're right about this. Is it is a big bugaboo for me is buying sweaters, 'cause my arms are long. Like I am not only tall, but I'm very gangly. Like, you know how they'd say the thing of like your wingspan, just roughly your height? I forget what exactly it was, but I like did the measurement and it's like I have longer arms. - You would do well at a combine, at least the wingspan part. - Yeah, they'd like get me to a volleyball combine maybe? Again, no jumping allowed though, 'cause that'd be too close to the sport that they actually play. And like we found out with the NHL, you just get to do box jumps and stuff. So none of that for me. - Just easily translatable to a hockey game. - Right, so for them matters will have me like do Sudoku at the, or Sudoku at the volleyball combine that I'm mythically attending here. I do well there. And I'm not freakishly tall, I'm perfectly tall. - No. - It sounds like a former president, I know. I am the perfect height. Everyone is saying it. And there are many haters and losers that have been lying about me being too tall. - I don't know, all I've heard is that you look like a freak and that you are a freakishly tall. - It was weird that you don't get to say you've been hearing it when you're the one saying it. - So I can hear what I say. - Yeah, I hope. - If I have to be subjected to it, you should as well. You're a freak. - All right, time to have the wakin' rake presented by Sports Interaction, your home grown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. Blue Jays trying to even up their series in Milwaukee against the Brewers as it's you say Kukuchi coming off his big hit in Oakland. Facing Carlos Rodriguez who's making his major league debut eight 10 on Sportsnet One tonight. And the Blue Jays slight favorites, minus 115 Brewers, minus 105, the total eight and a half in this one. - You're gettin' a good Kukuchi start 'cause it gets the extra hour of sleep with them being in the central time zone. And there's gonna be an under in this game 'cause Kukuchi's starting and then the Blue Jays are the other teams. So eight and a half, gimme the under. I know minus 120, but what are we doin' here? This is shades of early season Raptors for me. Take the under until proven otherwise. - Yeah, the Brewers are not an offensive juggernaut as well. Like I mentioned, this is not a team that despite the home runs they hit yesterday, not a huge slugging team. So yeah, I very much like the under eight and a half. And I don't care if this guy's making his major league debut. He has the opportunity to come up with a pretty good debut against the Blue Jays team that is low to score some runs. We also have updated Stanley Cup final odds. The Oilers now plus 400 to win the Stanley Cup after going down two games to none in Florida, the Panthers minus 556. So that's interesting considering Sir Gabe Abrovsky. The clear cons might trophy favorite minus 167, but yeah, compare that to the Panthers at minus 556. Like what's the scenario where they win and he's not the cons might winner, it's hard to imagine. And Conor McDavid plus 550 to win the cons might, well there's only plus 400 to win the series. Again, I don't paint the scenario, what? Evan Rodriguez has another, like he finishes the series with multiple two goal games. It doesn't, Evan Rodriguez, by the way, plus 5,000 to win the cons might. Former Leaf in name only I think, but formerly nonetheless. Yeah, the thing I'd like to point out is once again, this stat was good for the Panthers after game one, it's better after game two. Teams that have gone up to nothing in the Stanley Cup final have ended up winning the series 49 out of the quick math 54 times that that has happened there. 49 and four, a little over 90%. So yeah, I think the Panthers are gonna take care of this thing. If you want the value, you gotta go Bob. But if you truly want the value, take McDavid 'cause there is a world where he goes transcendent at the end of this thing and just wills the Oilers. I agree. All right, that was the Wakenrike presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. All right, we're already heard from Frank Sirivelli on today's show. It was in an audio clip. Talked of a live version of Frank Sirivelli. Coming up next is the fan morning show continues Van Anis, Brent Gunning, SportsNet 590, the fan. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (dramatic music)
