(upbeat music) - We're back on Kinok Central here in the KinTech studio at Stan Reacho and Satyar Shah. Let's bring in senior NHL writer for the score. It is John Mattis. Thanks for this, John. - How are you? - I'm good, boys. Are we talking Joey Chestnut or what? - I don't know, man. But if I knew I could make that much money just eating hot dogs, maybe I should have decided on that as a career earlier in life, right? - He really does have that corner, right? Like, if he literally the only person doing that full time, I feel like he must be. - I just always wonder, like with somebody that has a, let's say, unique talent. Like, how did you figure out you could stomach that many hot dogs in one sitting? I just, I don't know. It seems like a weird thing to try and figure out if you can do this. It's like, the whole Guinness Book of World Records is like that. Like, why did you think you or want to even try to make this a Guinness Book of World Records? I don't understand. - I love it. And it just, it brings it back, right? I don't know about you guys, but I remember my grandparents had those really thick Guinness Book of World Records. - Yeah. - Just on their coffee table. It was a very like 90s thing, obviously now with the internet and whatever. I assume it's all mine, but it was certainly like a big deal and you flip through the pages and see these, you know, whatever, the most toothpicks, you know, in one room or whatever, I don't know, like the most random things. And yeah, you bring up a good point. I don't know, other than, hey, I want to make it, I want to set a world record. That might be the motivation, but other than that, it doesn't make a ton of sense. - It's definitely a strange one. But, you know, this is just coming from a guy who never found out what I could do to get into the Guinness Book of World Records. So, something Sat and I have been talking about, I mean, we're curious as to what exactly the Canucks are going to do here in free agency. Obviously, it was a very successful season for them, but, you know, there's a lot of unrestricted free agents. And while they've made a pretty competitive attempt, it sounds like to keep Elias Lindholm. It doesn't look like it's going to get it done. And it's pretty obvious who the best fit in free agency would be for the Canucks. It's Jake Genssel, but it's going to cost quite a bit. Like upwards of nine million per year on a seven year deal, John. My question for you is, do you think Jake Genssel is worth that kind of money? - In a vacuum, yes, but, you know, his age, the fact that, and I'm not by no means saying that Jake Genssel is a fraud or anything, but the fact that he's played, what, 98% of his five on five shifts in his career with Sidney Crosby. And I know he's been away from now, but like, there's still a little bit of, you know, doubt in my head in terms of like, over a large sample, what does he look like? Looked great in Carolina, so he started to certainly convince me there. But he's the type of guy though, that like kind of fit on any team, any line, has a long track record of producing. Like, there's certainly a lot of players out there that would be worth signings, regardless of, you know, how much Genssel signs for, because, you know, you'd rather pay star caliber players than say middle six guys or bottom six guys or your seventh offense than that never plays. There's a lot of mistakes made in free agency, and certainly you could make one with Genssel, but, you know, there's, it's a better option than a lot of other players out there. I know I'm probably talking circles 'cause I'm trying to think like, is this the right player for the Canucks, or are they just kind of chasing the big fish? What do you guys think? - Well, personally, I'd be all in on going after Genssel, and I'm pretty stingy when it comes to the Canucks signing contracts. I'm pretty reluctant when it comes to a lot of their own free agents. I just feel like he could be a great fit with Patterson, and he's the left handed shot, which they need on the bumper spot on the power play. So I just see him being a near perfect fit for this team. So I'm big on trying to get Genssel, if he's willing to come north of the border. And one of the other reasons why I would strike on it is, it's hard to find that caliber of players, and in free agency, every year fewer and fewer of them come be available. Like it's him and Ryan Hart, and we'll see if Ryan Hart even gets to free agency, right? And then, yeah, there are guys like Lindholm that are good too, of course, and Stan Coasey's get a bit older. Look at next year's free agent class. It's like Mitch Marner. We'll see if Drycidal gets there. We'll see if other guys kind of get there, but if not, like you're not going to have a ton of chances to go after high-end guys. And with 32 teams in a league, I think you can't be sitting on the sidelines too long nowadays if you have a star caliber player available on the market. - Yeah, I think that's pretty compelling. And you already have Patterson locked up, Quinn's at a good number, JT's at a good number, even though obviously at the time with that contract, created some consternation. You know, next year, Brock Besser's around at a decent hit. Nothing to be too worried about there. Like, I feel like they're in a pretty good spot cap-wise, especially if, you know, Lindholm walks. If they don't pay Josh well too much, if he does indeed return. Yeah, I can see it. Haronek, obviously, we'll see how high that AV gets. But you make a good point. Like, I just, it's one of those things where, like Stan Coase is probably going to resign. Ryan Hart's probably going to resign. - Yep. - I think you, you know, you're way better off spending your money on, let's just say nine, nine and a half for argument's sake on Gensl, then two or three players that are, you know, three million each or whatever. I think you swing for the fences in that sense. You know, obviously it comes down to the player, does he want to come up to Canada? What does he think of the tax situation? All that good stuff. But I think they should certainly pursue him. I'm glad we've talked this out 'cause I didn't have all the great take it for us. - See, like I, the thing I kind of, I almost wonder, 'cause I don't think you're alone in the idea of like, okay, like I get it. Jake Gensl's numbers are about as good as they are in the league, but how do I, how do I decide for that when he's played so much of his minutes next to the greatest player of this generation, Sidney Crosby, right? And how you separate that, it's difficult. And it feels like that reputation might affect what he ends up getting paid because production wise, you know, he's not too far away from, I mean, you know, when I looked at it from left shot forward players over the last three years, Jake Gensl has 106 goals, that would be the 12th most in the entire national hockey league. You know, like he's not too far away from having Johnny Goudreau type numbers when he hit the open market, right? Goudreau had definitely more assist numbers and things like that, but it's, he does have superstar level production here, John, but it doesn't feel like Jake Gensl has the superstar tag with him because so many people just, how much of it is Jake Gensl and how much of it was playing with Sidney Crosby? - Yeah, and it's like on one hand, it's fair, that criticism or whatever that outlook because you go like literally you've been tied to Sidney Crosby for the vast majority of your career. So it's just hard to tease that out, but then it's a little unfair because when you watch him, he does a lot by himself, he's incredibly smart, it's hard to play with superstars. And then also you have the small sample size of playing with the hurricanes and you look fantastic, especially in the playoffs. So if you put all that together, I think it's a pretty good bet that he'll be fine elsewhere, especially if you put him with Elias Patterson, who is like Sebastian ah-ho, who he played with in Carolina and like Sidney Crosby. And I'm obviously grouping them together vaguely, they're not all quite the same, but Gensl has shown that he can play with this sort of playmaking center, two-way playmaker. So it makes a ton of sense in that sense. But what's the bidding war like out there, right? Like is there a Godfather offer coming from Utah that has like literally $40 million in space and can go buck wild here with a new owner? I don't know, does, you know, with Gensl entertained going back to Carolina, I don't think he'd go back to Pittsburgh, but there'll probably be a fair amount of suitors here. And I'm not saying that means that, you know, we should exclude the Canucks 'cause they are certainly enticing after the season that they had, you know, Rick Talkett, I'm sure is part of the recruiting plan as far as getting guys excited. If, you know, you can pitch them on just, hey, you're gonna start the season with the Elias Patterson, we're gonna see how that goes. I think that's pretty convincing. You're gonna be on the ice a lot with Quinn Hughes. That's pretty convincing. So yeah, I can see it. There's always risk with signing guys out of free agency to face it, but I think the risk is relatively low if that AAV is outrageous. Like it can get a little crazy out there. So yeah, I like the fit. It's, I know recently you wrote about wingers and wall play and how wingers are kind of the, I mean, they don't get the love that centers and defensemen do, but also something you mentioned there with Genssel, like it's hard to play with good players. And we saw it play out. Like I don't think Elias Patterson was playing it as best in the playoffs here, John, but I also know, like if Ilea McKay have could finish a little bit, you know, Elias Patterson may have had a few more assists to go next to his name on the stat sheet. And that's just the way that it goes sometimes, but you know, it's not easy being an elite winger. A lot of times you're not going to get the love for it, but there's a lot that goes into it that helps drive play for your line mates if you don't do some of those little things well. - Yeah, and it's just one of those things, right? Where you go down the list and, you know, goalie's obviously got a ton of attention. Sometimes they get, you know, they get the bad side of the coin or everyone to put it in terms of the blame. - Yeah. - You know, not everything being their fault, but people thinking it is. But when they, when they pitch a shout out, you know, goalies are hailed at heralded, and then, you know, you look at centers, pretty self-explanatory, defense men in terms of the value and just the attention they get. So wingers, you know, there's only so many positions and they certainly fly under the radar and if you can find one that drives play, I mean, that's one, pretty rare because they're usually playing with the center who can drive play. But if you think of, say, a math, you could chuck who's in the cup final right now, he does so many little things defensively, offensively, to just make sure the pox movie in the right direction. When it's going back, you know, towards the Florida zone, he's, you know, he's backtracking, he's there, he's making sure, you know, he's breaking up plays. So it's one of those things where, you know, if you think about, say, Pasternak in Boston, he drives the line purely by being, you know, a dual threat as a playmaker and as a shooter, he can have Joe Blowas' centermen and they'll produce. So it's really interesting in that way and, you know, the further you get down the lineup, the harder it is to find that value. But one way that wingers can lift up their line, lower down the lineup is by being really good along the wall. And especially in the defensive zone where, you know, if you're watching a game, if anyone's listening and they're kind of trying to visualize, if you think of just like a basic breakout, you've got that first pass, it goes to the boards. And I don't know about you guys, but sometimes my mind just completely ignores that, that connecting pass of what the winger's doing on the board because you're already thinking, oh, how are they going to exit this zone? What kind of rush chance are we in for? Or just, oh, that was a terrible first pass or whatever. You blame it on the defenseman. But what the winger's doing there is very, very important. And sometimes you just can't see it on the broadcast. The fans in the way, it's on the other side of the range. You can barely see. But what they're doing there is super impactful. Like it's one, it's a vulnerable position on the wall. You've got the defense been pinching in, which is pretty much every defenseman in the league nowadays. You've got a forward, an opposing forward backtracking and going to pin you against the wall. Back in the day, that meant you're getting crushed and potentially concussed. Now it's more, they're probably trying to take the buck from you and go back the other way and try to create something. And it's also just vulnerable because if you fumble the puck, if it tips off your stick, off your skate, there's a prime scoring chance for the other team. So I implore anyone listening to watch the next game on Thursday, the Cup game. And watch Carter Verheggi on the wall. He's incredible at, you know, he's just this like, he's this goal score. We don't think of him as, you know, a guy who helps in transition in sort of this gritty way. But watch what happens when the puck comes to him on the wall in the defensive zone. His percentage or his success rate getting the puck out into the neutral zone and making things happen that way is off the charts. And it's just, it's IQ, it's passing, it's hockey sense, it's, you know, risk reward. There's a lot going on there and it all happens within a split second and a lot of people don't notice it. But that's a, you know, a way that, that wingers can make an impact. And it's one of those things where you ask a winger about wall play and they start, you know, just rambling about how it's underappreciated, how it's underrated, how it helps me contribute to the team and helps me stay in the league. It's kind of this like underrated thing that coaches absolutely love. If you can do it right, you're making them look good. You're helping, again, the play move in the right direction. And, you know, your teammates love it. Your center certainly is gonna love if the puck's coming off the wall and to the center lane at the perfect start. - And that's a great breakdown, John. And when you watch this series between the Oilers and the Florida Panthers, I mean, a lot of it comes down to also playing within inside the dots. And that's where the Panthers really dominate. Like last night, I can't really think of too many quality looks Edmonton was able to generate. I know, according to natural statrix, 5 on 5, they had zero high danger shot attempts even. So it kind of tells you the way Florida is able to take away the middle of the ice. And I know the playoffs, I know that hockey has changed a lot the past couple of decades, but playoff hockey really has not changed one bit, has it? - No, I think that's a pretty good observation. And one thing I'd say that's different this year than last year in the Cup Final was last year with Vegas, all the talk was in about how they were sort of insulating their goalie, they were kind of just, I guess all just kind of collapsing on their goalie. I find that what the Panthers are doing right now as far as limiting in those high danger opportunities, limiting slot shots from the Oilers is that they have layers. Like they have a guy actively, let's just say with McDavid, like on him. And then when he inevitably gets through that guy, there's another guy right there and they switch off so well. But at the end of the day, it's doing the same thing that Vegas did last year to the Panthers where the goalie is not seeing anything dangerous. It's just a kind of a different way of going about it. And I checked today and at five on five, McDavid has one slot shot per game in this series. So two total and then one and a half slot shots, slot passes, sorry, per game. So that's three total over two games at five on five. And I don't know about you guys, but McDavid has been flying out there. His transition game's been fantastic. Like he's totally engaged. You can tell he's not, you know, he's not hurt significantly like, it's not like this is a matter of them like a hundred percent shutting him down. It's just they've managed to somehow keep him to the outside, keep him to the perimeter. And I think that slot passes statistic is more impressive than the slot shot one or one because McDavid's more of a passer. But just the fact that he's been unable to get the puck to the slot, to his teammates, when that's kind of his bread and butter, everyone pays attention to McDavid. Oh, someone's open, boom. Hyman scores is 50th goal of the year or whatever, right? So I mean, I think that's incredible. And I don't know if it's going to continue in Edmonton when they have lost change, it probably won't. But nevertheless, it's a pretty impressive start to the series for Florida. - The question I think now is how much does this series change if Sasha Barkov isn't available for game three and maybe beyond, you know? We could maybe talk about the dry side will hit and why it didn't receive any supplementary discipline. But, you know, the bigger question now for Florida is, like, what are we going to do if we don't have Sasha Barkov? - I agree, if it doesn't come back, it's a massive blow. But I'm finding that Gustav Forzling has been like all over McDavid in a very good way, all series. He closes gaps so quickly with his skating, with his stick, his anticipation is just perfect. And Xblads look pretty good. I mean, I think he's a guy that you can expose because his feet are a little slow. But I thought especially in game two, he was all over the puck and poking pucks away on the PK, all that good stuff. And, you know, you've got Reinhardt there. He's a very good defensive player. He's a, if I'm not mistaken, a selfie finalist behind Barkov there. So yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. Like taking Barkov is the equivalent of taking McDavid on the other side. So if that does happen, it's a massive blow. But I would say, you know, it's partially Barkov that's doing this McDavid. It's also Forzling. Xblads to some extent, they've really done it as a team. And I guess you do what you can if Barkov can't go. - Do you think Drycidal would have faced supplemental discipline if this was a regular season game? - It's hard to tell, it's really hard to tell with player safety stuff. - Yeah. - But I would say probably, I feel like you would have got like a game or two. But yeah, when it comes to the playoff today, obviously weighted differently. And, you know, no one wants to say it, but I'm sure the fact that he's a star comes into into the equation, even if it's kind of subconsciously with the evaluators at player safety. - Oh, and the series is too nothing for Florida too. - Yeah, so yeah, like, and this all sounds like a little icky when we're talking about it, but it's kind of, it's probably the reality. So yeah, but all that said, it's not like it was like a 20 game suspension type of thing. I think maybe if they'd give him a five on the ice, then okay, we sort of move on. But the fact that he didn't get one, yeah, it opens the door to some sort of other discipline, but they decided to walk away from it. - Hey, John, really appreciate the time as always. Thanks for this. - All right, fellas, have a good one, cheers. - There he is, John Mattis, senior writer with the score, follow him on Twitter @matisjohn and check out his latest work on the score app or via his Twitter account. It's Dan Richeaux and Satyar Shah. So the Oilers down O2 in the series should a one game one. Florida comes back better than ever in game two and even still, as much as the shot clock was heavily favored in Florida's way, I thought Edmonton defended well, but they made big mistakes. - Yeah, they did. - And that's ultimately what decides games and where everything is so tightly checked. - Edmonton, their team game, defensive game, has been more than fine. It was fine, hey, they were under some duress at times, but for the most part, they've been fine, how they've played, they've made some mistakes that have cost them. I haven't had issues with their team game. They just couldn't generate any looks at all last night. - Yeah, like nothing. - Florida is so suffocating. - And nothing, they had nothing, right? So, and that to me was the biggest concern I have and heading into now game three and four. And I picked Edmonton to win this in six, so I had Edmonton winning. I just don't see how they're gonna win for the next five with how little they're able to generate against Florida. - I would be, I think a lot depends on Barkov. Like the door opens a little bit if Barkov's not there. Because-- - But do you think that a dry saddle avoids suspension that Barkov is injured? - That's gonna be the great mystery. I mean, we won't find out obviously until Thursday, but-- - That would be my guess. - It feels like this thing is kind of already over. - It feels that way. - The idea of beating Florida four out of five times with how good Florida's been all season long, it just, it seems like a stretch. - It does. Now, hey, in Vancouver, not to bring 2011 back in again, but-- - Oh, here we go. - But no, my point being, it's like that was, it was the same scenario, right? There was a team that had home ice. They won the first two games. It looked like it was done. And then they just take care of business the next two on home ice, and the series is back to being even. - Back on. - I mean, game three is for all the marbles, isn't it? Pretty much, right? Like-- - You're certainly not coming back from 3-0 down. - You're not, right? And 3-1's still a stretch. But like, your only chance to be alive is winning game three. - Yeah. - After that, like, you're done. - Oilers in a tough spot, although I know many of our listeners not shedding a tear for the, quote, unquote, Canada's team. It's Dan Richo, Satyar Shah. Coming up, Erfan Gefar is going to join us more on the Canucks Free Agent Plans next on Canucks Central. - Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drans. Get your daily dose of Canucks Talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - We're back on Canucks Central, Dan Richo, Satyar Shah. Let's bring in our next guest, Tia's Canucks Insider and U.S. Open Enthusiast, it is Erfan Gefar. What's happening? - What's going on, fellas? How we doing? - I'm doing all right. What do you think you would score at Pinehurst this week? - A lot. - Behind number? - A lot, a lot. - Would you break one to one each? - I think it'd be very, very high number. Move the T's way back and just let it go. No, that would not be fun weekend. - The U.S. Open's always hilarious. Like the videos they show of like how thick the rough is and the greens are running at like a 14 on the scale. And like it's just like, you drop it on the green. It's just going to roll off. It's like, how are you even supposed to play this? Doesn't make any sense. - Well, I work on professional golfers. - Oh, I get reminded of that every time I go out to the course. (laughs) All right, let's get in on the Canucks because Sat and I are trying to figure out what exactly this team is going to do. We talked a lot about Jake Genssel today. And, you know, I know Rick Dollywall mentioned today that there's a thought that, you know, the Canucks could still be in on this. To me, like, I'm reading between the lines and all I hear is like, yeah, Jake Genssel might be willing to go anywhere if the number is right. You know, the agent is putting in work right now. - Well, I guess the question is, like, for the Canucks, like, does it make sense to go into the nine plus nine and a half million dollar range for a player of Jake Genssel-Zilk? - I mean, if you really believe in the player, for sure. I think, you know, the knowing the management group and they know what kind of player he is is one thing. Obviously, you know, Rick talk it as well as another thing, but it's the fit, right? Is he going to immediately fit with the least Pederson, right? If that is the case where he is going to play, or is he going to be a guy that plays with JT Miller? And then you end up having moving Brock Besser down to play with the least Pederson. So he's a winger that fills their need, for sure. And like you just mentioned down off the top, I mean, reading between the lines, obviously, I think the, for him to, is preferred place to play is in the United States. I think that, you know, one phone call from the Vancouver Canucks or any team for that matter north of the border saying that we'll give you exactly what you want, maybe a little bit more to come play here. How do you not say no, right? So I think that you definitely have to look into it where there's two sides to this in everything. But I think from Jake Gensil's point of view, you know, he's going to get really what he wants. And I think the teams that want him the most are going to give him all of the extra incentives. And if the Vancouver Canucks are willing to do that, then, you know, it's going to be an interesting summer, for sure. - Well, the question is, are the Canucks willing to do that? Like, I know the Canucks like Gensil, obviously, right? Like, I mean, they'd be in on it, the question is, how far in on it are you? And if they can't sign Lindholm, they want to add a big time piece, do you think they have the appetite to outbid other teams for Gensil? - Well, how high are you willing to go? And I think that that's the biggest question. Like, if you're willing to go north of nine million dollars or starting at nine million dollars, I don't think that that's going to happen. Now, whether Gensil decides that maybe nine is too high and it's eight and a half or something like that, but there's someone out there that's going to pay this guy a lot of money, right? 29 years old, you know he can score. Obviously, championship pedigree. And he's going to be one of the most sought-after guys out there. He makes a lot of teams better. He's great in the playoffs. He's exactly what a team that's young, like the Vancouver Canucks would like to have long-term. It's just a matter of money, right? Are you willing to commit to this guy for some, that large for that long of a period of time? And, you know, for the Vancouver Canucks, you got to be smart about it, right? If he's your guy and if Lindholm's not, you just mentioned that they want to make a splash, then you have to go swinging. You got to go and be able to outbid the other teams. It's, you know, assuming Sam Reinhardt stays in Florida, like Jake Gensil. Yeah, I think he's going to. Yeah. Like, I can't see a situation where Reinhardt isn't a member of the Florida Panthers. When it's all said and done, I like, I think that one's, you know, I think that one's definitely kind of in the bag. Well, then Gensil is the best winger on the market. And really, he's like, if you look at his numbers, he's a top 10 winger. He's a top 10 left winger in the league, for sure. He's easily a top eight to 10 left winger. He came to say top five to 10 left winger in the NHL. Depends on how you value your guys. To me, like, if he signs for under $9 million, Ben Hankinson did something wrong in this agent. So I wonder how that's all going to play out. Because, you know, he's a top end player. And the way things are going, you know, I know we've talked about this quite a bit the last couple of weeks when you've been on. But it seems like Lindholm has maybe got his eyes set somewhere else. Yeah, I think that, look, when it came out of it, it was reportedly seven times seven. And that was kind of the discussion. And, you know, I think the market for Lindholm is seven and a half to $8 million, to be completely honest. And I'm not entirely sure that Canucks are going to want to get up that high. Or give an extra year for a seven million times, eight year offer. I don't think that they want to do that either. So when it comes down to it, you know, Lindholm is going to have options. You know, there are teams out there that are willing to pay him, that will be willing to pay him. I mean, you know, obviously, you know, you hear the teams and the names, you know, it's no secret. The Bruins have been linked to Lindholm, among other teams around the National Hockey League, especially on the East Coast. So, you know what, he's going to have options. I think that the seven times seven offer, you know, was fair for the Vancouver Canucks. And that's why it's a negotiation, right? You go back and forth to try and figure something out. But from the Lindholm point of view, I think he's going to try and, you know, get every dollar that he can. This is his last big deal that he's going to get, probably in the National Hockey League. So, you go and get your money. And, you know, you hope you go for a team that, you know, like the Boston Bruins that might be, or wherever he goes, might be able to challenge for a Stanley Cup here. - Do you think the Canucks have made their best offer for Lindholm or do you think they may circle back again before we get to free agency? - I've said this before, and I've said it again, even with like the JT Miller stuff. Like, all it takes is one phone call, whether the best offer was made one way or the other, or whether, you know, things have, they haven't been talking at all over a few days, or this goes with any player in any organization, in all honesty, like, it's one phone call. That gets it done. So, it's a matter of who wants to make that phone call, and who's willing to move. I think the Vancouver Canucks have definitely told, you know, the Lindholm camp where they stand, and I think the Lindholm camp has told the Vancouver Canucks where they stand, and kind of what they're looking for. So, it's a matter of waiting. I think there probably is going to be another discussion here at some point down the road, and if not, then you know what, on July 1st, or just before that, or whatever it is, he's going to have a lot of teams lining up to pay it. - Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the thing I also kind of wonder about was what Elliot mentioned today, that perhaps Lindholm isn't enamored with the role he's have, 'cause it's clear he's probably not playing full-time with Patterson, probably not playing full-time with JT Miller, so who is he playing with? How much do you think who his running mate's going to be for the most part, or what line he plays on is going to factor into his decision? - Yeah, I mean, look, I think that you don't want to have a revolving door of line-based, if you're him, right? You want to be able to play with guys that can put the puck in the net, or at least build some chemistry with, like Dakota Joshua, by all accounts, you know, that one's going to be interesting if we see the Canucks end up making him an offer or not, but it sounds like he's going to free agency. You know, you look at guys like Connor Garland, like is that going to be the guy that's the last Lindholm money mate? And then is it, is he playing against the team's best players? Is he a match-up guy? Is he only going to be a power play guy? And just your PK guy, and really, if you're paying a guy seven north of seven or north of a million dollars like that, to be your third-line guy and maybe get 40 points, like that's tough on him, right? That's a role that, you know, you have to look at it and say, am I really, really willing to do that here? Or are you going to take an elevated role somewhere else in the National Hockey League, where you're really dependent on nighted and night out? I mean, the earliest better thing is interesting too, because, you know, what type of lead is better, so are they going to get back? Coming back, right? We all know what happened in the playoffs, the struggle after that. And, you know, there's a, there's a, he's a big talking point. We saw what a lead, a life Lindholm did in the playoffs. And I think that's why a lot of the people, you know, are interested and want to bring him back if they can. But, again, it's a numbers game. And I think that when you're 29, 30 years old, and you're going out to try and, you know, provide and make enough money for the foreseeable future, for you and your family, you're going to take every dollar that you can. It's, it's curious, like they're plans and free agency. So much is still up in the air. I mean, they've got so many guys as unrestricted that look like they want to test the market and get as big a contract as they can. And, you know, I'm not blaming them for doing that. That is their right. So go out and do it. If you can get the bag, you should go out and do it, absolutely. But it leaves the Canucks in a really interesting spot. I guess what I wonder about is because they've, they've clearly valued Lindholm and valued even having him as, as a third line center. Would they still value that if they aren't able to, as we've talked about, get Lindholm and maybe look for somebody else on the free agent market to fill that spot? - Yeah, I think that, you know, Rick talk, it loves the idea of three centers, right? I don't think that that's a secret. I mean, you look around the national hockey league. It is a pretty good recipe for success. But are you going to pay your third line center or quote unquote third line center? I guess hybrid, seven and a half million dollars. And then are you going to put them on the wing when he doesn't like playing on the wing or not as successful on the wing? Or doesn't, you don't put them in a position to succeed there. So it's tough, right? Yeah, I think from both sides, if you're the Canucks, you know, you've probably made your offer where you believe it's definitely fair and for a good reason because you want him back and that's the price that you're willing to pay. But from the Lindholm point of view, I kind of agree with Elliot, it is role and it's also money, right? At the end of it, it all comes down to money. So if you're willing to go up, whether it's half a million dollars a year or a million or another year of that contract, then maybe you can get back to the drawing board and start talking again. - The other thing too, we talked so much about the free agents, the Canucks have free agents on the market, but like trades and RFA's, they've gone after in the past, like Coronav wasn't, wasn't RFA had a contract, but a guy under control, they've gone after the RFA types with Studnica in the past and other players of that ilk. How aggressive do you think they're going to be to try to trade for a young NHL player? Perhaps a guy that's maybe not taken a step or perhaps a guy that needs a contract who's deal is up after his entry level deal. Like do you see the Canucks making it that sort of a trade as well to address their forward needs? - That's the one that I think that, you know, a lot of us should watch, right? They don't go out and land Jay Genssel. You want to get a winger to play with, if it's Elias Pedersen and Elias Pedersen or if it's J.T. Miller and you're going to put Brock with Elias Pedersen, if that's your plan, you need a winger, you need a scoring winger. So you go down the list and you look at some and you know, you see names Adam Henry, probably not. You know, then they math like going to be a guy and the opportunities might cost too much. You know, and you have, there's guys that are kind of overrated a little bit, right? You look at Anthony Duclerc, Jake DeBros, players like that, I mentioned Jordan Martinook. Today, obviously, what an interesting one, but that's not your top six answer, right? That's something that you've got to try and figure out. So the creativity part of it is what interests me for the Vancouver Canucks. Do they have their eye on someone that's out there currently, you know, an RFA that they're willing to, you know, part ways with an asset for and then sign this player to a contract. So that's one where I'm going to keep my eye on, to be completely honest, as we, you know, inch closer towards reagency, see how active if the Vancouver Canucks are in a trade or we're talking to teams to try and get something done, especially in and around the draft area, because that'll be interesting to see as well. Do they want to try and get back in or things like that? Or are they going to try and lose someone to, you know, fill that Rochester spot that they need? - So that's not like a, that's not a Martin each ass we're talking about. We're talking more maybe like a copo-coco type of player, a guy that's got promise, but maybe hasn't yet delivered and, you know, the New York Rangers situation, maybe they don't have the cap space to keep copo-coco right now. - Yeah, I mean, I'm not really going to throw names out there. - Yeah. - For the sake of throwing names 'cause I don't want to get radioed. But like, I just think that they, I'm thinking about that at type of player specifically. - Yeah, I definitely do. Maybe the fit hasn't been there. - Yeah. - Maybe they've had a down year, the last couple of years and maybe a change of scenery for both parties is good. And the Canucks, if they're willing, if they look at some of their players and say, okay, we have an asset right now on this team that we can go using a trade chip to get a guy that we believe can fit and be a fit with Lias Pedersen or the GT Miller or in amongst that top six four group, you know, you have to go and exhaust every option. You don't have the money to spend and go blow it in free agency on all these types of players. It just doesn't work like that, especially with the free agent class right now. So you've got to be smart about it. And I think that that's what the Canucks are doing. - The Canucks have a restricted free agent that's pretty prominent. And it was a big part of the roster this year. I know Frank Cera Valley mentioned it. I think it was over the weekend that maybe the Canucks, knowing where Lindholm and Joshua are currently at, maybe they shifted their focus back to Philip Peronic. Is there been any movement there from where you sit? What's what's going on with the Canucks and Philip Peronic? - Yeah, no, not entirely, to be honest. I'm checked in just before we did this hit. Earlier this morning before, we had another one on Ringglide, but yeah, I think that things right now kind of just the way they are, right? I think that the Canucks are trying to take care of some of their business with their free agents. And, you know, I understand that, you know, Philip is the guy that's an RFA, you know, they have the Canucks have some control there. But eventually you're going to try and get something done, you know, saying no to $52 or $54 million was the one thing. And if you really think that you're a seven and a half, eight million dollar guy, I just don't think that that's here. Now, if that's going to end up being a trade, it would be interesting to see what a return would be, but I can't imagine the Canucks are going to go into this and not at least have another conversation that you're with Philip Peronic. - Yeah, I'm sure they're going to have some discussions too, especially because like we haven't got to the pressure point. Yeah, like when we get close to their draft, that's going to be like, okay, things are real here. Like where are we at and you have to make a decision. I mean, arbitration is always an option. You can go to is just not your preferred option. Like I don't think anybody wants to make, hey, Peronic, perhaps he wouldn't mind. He will get a nice number for next year. Then he hits unrestricted free agency. - That's a bad option for the Canucks. - But for the Canucks, not a good one. - Yeah, you're going into, you know, him being the final year of his contract as a UFA, you want to be contending. It's not like it wouldn't be a player you would want to trade at the deadline if you're assuming you're in a playoff spot. - I'm not going to be as forceful as saying he's guaranteed to be traded by the draft if he doesn't sign. But I'd say there's a really good chance that a trade happens at the draft if he doesn't sign an extension. - Yeah, I mean, look, that's the one to watch, right? The extension ones of these guys that are going to be free agents, that's all out there already. You know, the rumored offers and things like that and being close and not being close and talking and not talking, that's all out there. The Philip Roanich ones, the one where you haven't really heard too much about it. So whether they've not talked at all or whether they're working behind the scenes to try and do something here, that's kind of where the interest lies and where it should lie over the next couple of weeks. - As far as like, there hasn't been much on any of the free agents really outside of Elias Lindholm lately. I know Zadora of it still looks like there's a bit of a bridge to gap there. We haven't heard a ton on Joshua, but it just feels like those guys are looking to max out what they can get in free agency while the Canucks. Look, they're willing to give them competitive offers, but maybe just not exactly where the market might be for them on the open market. And that makes it difficult for the Canucks because you're kind of changing over a third of the roster that got you to game seven of the second round. Like Joshua was not an insignificant piece to this team, nor was Teddy Blueger or any of these guys, but that's kind of the game you play when you have so many unrestricted free agents on your team. - Well, that's the thing, right? And I mean, the thing about being competitive and your window to win right now with the players you currently have under contract and then Quinn Hughes obviously for the next few years, you know, Dr. Demko a couple more years there as well before he might have to get paid. So you try to strike while the iron is hot. You know, you're one win away from the conference final if you're the Vancouver Canucks. So, you know, you've seen as this team, but as assembled, could have done it. The unfortunate part is you're gonna lose someone somewhere, no matter what. So even if you did bring back this team fully, you still need a scoring winger. You still need some depth in that bottom six score group. And you still probably need another defenseman, you know, to try and shore up that blue line a little bit as well. So there's still work to be done, even though they were one and one win away from the conference finals, you know, there's definitely still some work to be done. And a lot of roster makeovers gonna happen. That's just the way the new NHL, right? You try and get guys while they're on their entry level deals to have the most success that you can. And if they are your star players and you do that, once you have to start paying guys, it's the role players. It's those players that you're gonna have to go out and find, whether it's via trade or or in free agency or college free agents or stuff like that, they're gonna help you kind of round out your roster. - So England's favorite for the Euro? - What? Well, they're my favorite for the Euro. - Oh, they're the betting favor as well. - I got my new kit coming, excited, Sunday. - Kissed death, never seen a kiss of death, quite like England being the favorite going into an international football tournament. - Yeah, but it happened so much, we're just so used to it. - Yeah, you're so used to failing on it, yeah. I mean, English team looks pretty sick though. I will say, - I mean, you know, Jackie Boy not in the, not there, you know, Maguire don't mind. - It's gonna be interesting. - It's a pretty good team. They're really good, man. - Stone Cold, Stone Cold Palmer, you know, just bagging goals left, right and center. - Yeah, you know, as long as they don't beat Ellingham, bossing the midfield, as long as they don't beat Italy in the final again, they should be okay. - I think Italy's gonna lose to Portugal at some point here. - Well, that would be tough, I would not. - Cristiano Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo is gonna lead the tournament exploring. - Wouldn't surprise me. - You think so? It would not surprise me. - Yeah, he's just gonna, I think he's just gonna go off. Portugal's got a sneaky good. - Portugal's got a good team. - I don't know if it's sneaky good. It's just really good. - But how good are they if they have to have Ronaldo be a big part of the team? - That doesn't matter. Ronaldo's Ronaldo. - Yeah, yeah. He should be the super sub, but we know his ego will never allow that. Erf, we appreciate the time as always. - Gentlemen, be well. - There he is. Erf on Gefar, Canucks insider joining us here on Canucks Central. Really interesting stuff on the Canucks plans here for free agency and you know what else could be out there. The talk about maybe targeting restricted free agents that you could trade for. You know, younger players to add to this core. I know that sounds exciting. You know, it could be costly and this team doesn't have a lot of second and third round picks to play with already. So you're getting into, I wouldn't say an ugly territory, but you know, I would like to see what kind of a fit that player is before deciding it's worth that mid round pick or higher pick to acquire a player like that. - Yeah, no, I'm with you on it, right? So it always just comes down to how willing are they to stay? - Yeah, and a lot of the free agents. Doesn't seem like they're willing to give the Canucks a bit of a pay cut here. - No, and that's the thing, like. - Or hometown discount. - Well, I think they are. It's just relative to what people think, right? It's like, we talked about with Bo Horbad, it's like Bo's willing to give you a discount, but we're not talking about he's willing to give you six and a half. - He wasn't taking the nudge contract. - Right, like his idea of a discount was yeah, maybe I'll do eight times seven or eight times eight or something, maybe I'll do that. - Yeah. - 'Cause he got eight and a half. Maybe he'll give you four million total off 500K per year off, right? Pedersen gave you what, maybe three, 400K off, right? JT maybe gave you four, 500K off. That's what we're talking about here, right? So they're willing to take less, I think. It's just where's your price range at? And if we're talking Zadora off thinks you can get five million plus. - And you're in a tough spot. - Right, so he's like, yeah, I'll give you a discount 'cause I can get six times six. I'll do it for five for you. But again, so I think that's where-- - That's still the player dropping six million dollars to say I'd be willing to stick with you, but-- - Right, if that's even, let's say it's six times five even. - Yeah, right, like the Myers contract is out there for him, but the connector, he'll do five times five. - Yeah, makes a big difference, right? That extra year, an extra five, six million dollars can change a lot. A lot of things are still unsettled for the Vancouver Canucks, right? Like right now, like of all the free agents, the only one that we've had sort of any positive news on is probably Tyler Myers. Other than that, it doesn't seem like there's been any sort of positive movement towards the Canucks signing any of these players. Like, yeah, with Lindholm, there's a bridge to gap with, that's probably not going to get gapped with Zadora, if they know where the number is, but are they willing to get there? - We've heard those things, but the only one that's seemingly more likely than not to come back as it stands right now is Tyler Myers. - Yeah, and I think he's the guy who's made the biggest step towards that, right? Like, I think he's a good guy that's made it very clear I want to stay here, and I'll probably forego, you know, quite a few offers to stay here. Whereas the other guys are kind of like, yeah, we'll give you less, but this is our chance to make money, right? Myers has, he's banked a bunch of money in his career. I think he's made like 60 some million already in his career, right? So he's made a lot of money, right? Like for him, yes, money matters, but it's fit too. And where he's at in his life and where he wants to be. This is Lindholm's chance to get paid. Zadora, this is his chance, Dakota Joshua, maybe his only chance of his NHL career to get a contract. - Yeah. - It's a lot harder for those guys to be like, yeah, I'll take significantly less. - And the big cloud over everything is filiparonic. I mean, that one is, we're two and a half weeks away from the draft, like we're not far away from this hitting sort of the pressure points that you mentioned earlier. - Yeah, and I think the way the Canucks look at it, I don't think they want to be cornered. And I think if you go to arbitration, that's being cornered. - Yeah. - Like it's extension or trade. Now, again, like I said, I don't want to be too forceful and say that I guarantee he's being traded if he doesn't signed by the trade deadline by the draft, but I think the Canucks really have to investigate. And I think the stuff that I kind of heard too about how they're viewing these things is like those pressure points matter. And if you're not getting a deal done by a certain time, like all bets are off. - Stan Rachow, Sad TR Shaw will take some of your texts, talk more about the Stanley Cup final, and we've got a giveaway coming up next on Canucks Central. (upbeat music) - Hey, it's Mike Alford and Jason Bruff. Join us for Alford and Bruff in the morning, weekdays for 6 to 9 a.m. on Sportsnet 650. - Or on demand anytime through your favorite podcast app. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Back in on Canucks Central, it's Stan Rachow, Sad TR Shaw. Final segment of the program. And we've got a couple of goodies coming for you. Yesterday, I understand that part of, I don't know if it was the reason you guys had me do the walk-and-talk with you in BIC yesterday while I was at the golf tournament, but you had a giveaway attached to my golf score yesterday? - Yes, we did. We gave out inside-out two tickets, and we made people guess what your front nine score was. And the people that got a right, the first person to get a right won the tickets to watch inside-out. - Right. - Two. So I figure if we're giving stuff away, that's how we should do it. We should do it when it comes to your golf score. So like, do we have more inside-out tickets to get away, by the way? - We have two more packs. - What? - Two more packs? - Two more packs. - Two more pairs? - Yeah, two more pairs. - Two more pairs. So how about we do what reaches final score? Did you keep counting final scores? - Yes, yes. We do have the ugly final score. - You have the final score. - You said ugly final score. Okay, so that's a hint. - Well, we knew what it was after nine. - Yes. So what was the correct answer yesterday? - Yesterday, it was 47-9. - Okay, so he had 47 through the front nine. He just said ugly score. Keep that in mind. Now ugly may not mean three digits, but it may mean that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what your final score is. So if you want to see inside-out, we have two pairs of tickets to watch it. - Yeah. - Two inside-out two. - It's a pre-screening, by the way. So you see it before it's in theaters. - It's a pre-screening. These tickets are for tomorrow night, June 12th at 7 p.m. over at Scotia Bank Theater in Vancouver. - Okay, all right. So guess reaches final score through 18 yesterday. And if you get it right, we have two sets of tickets. And don't call it and text it into our Dunbar Lumber text in a box, 656.50. You can't call it in. - Front nine. Front nine was 47. And... - Do I need to give people the range? - No, it's not enough. - I think leave it at that. I think we're close enough. - We've got a lot of text that are around the range already. - We're getting stuff coming in. - So 656.50 Dunbar Lumber text in, and when we have a winner, we'll let you know. Winners, we have two winners. - Yes. We'll have two winners, so call in. - 60428.00. - No, no, no, no. - No, text in. - Text in. - Oh, we're texting. - You're not listening. - I'm sorry, I'm sorry. - You're not listening. - I'm so frustrated about my golf game, and how many like damn shots I left around the green, like just scalling one across, or bad shot out of the bunker. - Text in. - I think I four-putted a couple. It was bad. It was just, you know. - Ooh. - Very frustrating. - A four-putt. - We got one. - We got one. - One winner already. - All right, okay. - Yeah, it was a four-putt. It's not pretty out there. The putter is really struggling. - Oh, yeah. - I was having a tough time reading the greens, you know. They were rolling well. - It's not easy. - It's not easy. Golfing in easy. - Ben is just like so disappointed in us. - I'm not disappointed. We were talking about a pre-shot routines today. - Oh, yeah. - They were kind of talking about yours a little bit. - Yeah. - It can be quite a scene sometimes, I guess. - I got some ideas. - So for those that are texting in. - We've got two winners. - All right, we got the winners. - We've got a couple of winners. - We got 120. - Jerry and Ben, no, you're not correct. 120 was too much. - What? - It was a major mat in Abbotsford and Lee and Langley. I will text you back. - All right. - You want to give the number out now, or are you two embarrassed? - Yeah, it's a 99, okay. - I say too embarrassed because maybe for you, that's embarrassing. - I'd be tickled, I'll be tickled if I break 100 this year. - Gretzky, if I hit 99 at one point this year, I may just walk off. - Yes. - I'm done for the year. - I'm good. - I'm good. - I'll play again next year, guys. - I'm a good round here. - I'm good. - I'm good. - See you guys next year. - I just, the thing is like I put in, I wouldn't say I put in a ton of time. Like I'm not practicing every single day. - No, twice a day. - But like, you know, I hit the range once, maybe twice a week, you know. Thinkin' about it all the time. I'm definitely doin' dry swings at home. Like I'm that guy. - You are that guy. - Yeah. - Well, you're dry swings in the studio at the time. - Yes, I do sometimes, yeah. - Sometimes if you leave him alone in the jaw clowns for long enough. - It's a problem. - And it's sneak up on him. - Sometimes I'm gonna scare up a couple of balls. - Sometimes the swing thought pops into the head and you're like, "Ooh, I'd love to think "how about like how this feels." - What does this feel like? If my elbow goes there. - Yeah. - If I do this with my hand, like does that-- - Does that work? - Does it cut? - Does it draw the ball? - We just told you like an overthinker. - Uh-huh, yeah. I missed the days when I was just gripping and rippin'. We were playing Pit Meadows yesterday. - Pit Meadows. - For those asking on the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox. US Open this week, very excited for it. I have a pool now that I do religiously for all the majors. It's great. - Yeah, do you do well? - No. - No. - I do okay. - I had Xander Shoffley in the last pool. I just didn't pick much else right. So that was the problem. So we're excited for the golf this weekend. - Yeah, it's great to see. Especially a local course getting a tournament like that. - Yeah. So Bit of News happened yesterday as far as one of the members of the Canucks being up for an award. We'll find out if Thatcher, Demko, and Quinn Hughes are able to lock down their big award nominations. Come awards night, which I think is the day before the draft. June, June 27th. - I believe so. It's the party before the draft. - The party before the draft. So June 27th. But yesterday the NHL did announce the Jim Gregory Award winner for GM of the year and finishing in second place with six first place votes. But well behind the winner, Jim Nill, was Patrick Allvene of the Vancouver Canucks finishing in second, just slightly ahead of Bilzito of the Florida Panthers. - Probably the right call, no. I mean, Bilzito's done a good job. What did he do this year that was so spectacular? I mean, he signed OEL, he signed Coolacov, he signed Evan Rodriguez, some lower kind of budget kind of guys, right? Made the Terra Sanco trade. Okay, sure, nice and some need some moves. But most of that work was done before the big stuff, right? I'd say Jim Nill makes sense. Jim Nill had a pretty great year. - Yes. - Right, like, obviously it's hard to, look, Patrick Allvene and the Canucks front office collectively took this team from being very bad when were they 11th last year, 11th from the bottom and took them to winning the Pacific Division. The second biggest jump year over year for a Canucks team as far as points in the standings. What did you say was 28 points year over year that they increased. - Yeah. - So it was really good. But Jim Nill took a good team to being a great team. Now, I know that they fell just short of the Edmonton Oilers there. Well, they lost in game six. And Edmonton actually won that series fairly decisively with the way that it ended. But not only the addition of Chris Tanev at the deadline, but guys like Matt DuShane had an unbelievable year in Dallas. - Huge bounce back here. Huge. - And I think part of this, I know you're only supposed to evaluate like what happened within the year for voting on this award. But I have to imagine some of Dallas's recent draft success played a factor in this. Like how much Logan Stankov and popped this year and Wyatt Johnston as well, even though that came years prior. Like it feels like Jim Nill's recent track record played into him winning this award as well. - Absolutely. And I think that's a part that doesn't get talked but enough, I think sometimes year to year. And you're right, like you look at a year to year and say, well, it's not just this year, but the work they've done organizationally with drafting and development is spectacular. - Yeah. - And they still got the HLNVP coming to. - And there's no award for, you know, system of the season, right? Or like prospect pool of the year. Like there's no such award. So to me, the GM award encompasses a number of things with your organization. And with the level of success the stars have had, I think it's imminently fair for him to win the award, especially when you get to the conference final. I think generally speaking, the ones who win that this award get to the conference final. - Yeah. - Had Patrick Alveen gotten to the conference final, I think he may have won it ahead of Jim Nill. Because of the year to year impact that they had, 'cause OEL was a massive buyout, the Canucks were very aggressive, the trade deadline as well, during the season with the trades that they made. The Canucks were the most aggressive team in the offseason and in season tinkering with their roster. - Yeah. - But because they didn't get out of the second round, I didn't think he was gonna win it. - Jim Nill has now won it in back-to-back years. He won it for 2023 as well. Prior to that, Joe Sakic, Lulee Morello with the New York Islanders won it in the first two years, 2020 and 2021. So they were really good back then, the New York Islanders. Of course, Don Sweeney of the Boston Bruins won it before that. But I think you're right about how that game seven played out. Maybe Patrick Alveen gets a few more votes if the Canucks are into the conference final. That's when the award voting happens. But I think when you look at it for next year, obviously it's gonna depend on results. But the Canucks did spend a lot of assets to get to where they ended up. And you see it in the unrestricted free agents. You see it in their lack of assets that they have to trade now. First round pick gone for this year. Second round pick gone again. They didn't have one last year either. Third round picks are gone for the next two years after this one. So it's like they've spent a lot to get this team to its ceiling this year. So for as much as hey, Patrick Alveen finished second, I almost feel like his job is only getting harder from here. - I don't disagree. And I think this is where you get paid. It's one thing to kind of get going early on. How do you sustain the winning? And how do you get the right contracts under the book's long term as well? For you to be able to year in a year out content and get to the third round and beyond. I mean, the Dallas star has got to the third round and back to back years. The conference finalist two years in a row, right? How did the Canucks get to a point where they're knocking on the door that way and hopefully getting into a cup final? And that's always some of the hardest things to do. And I agree with you in terms of, don't expect to see a lot of picks in terms of trades where the Canucks are giving them up. I expect though that they are going to be exploring player trades, you know? And we mentioned Hironic before. What happens with him? Does he extend or not by the draft? And where does that kind of go? I could totally see a trade at the draft if he doesn't sign an extension. And then you look at guys like Neil's holdlander. How does he fit in? Because the Canucks aren't trading picks. But if you're making trades, you're going to have to trade guys like that. Like it's going to be Hironic, whether it's trading Hironic to a team and getting something back or trading Hironic to a team and getting some draft picks, which you then use to go and get other players. Or we saw them do that with bow, right? Where they traded a bow, got the first and then when it got Hironic, when that player became available to them. I could see them exploring deals in that way as well with Hironic, where if they don't get the player they want to return for him, if they have to trade him, that they'll take the best assets and then use those assets to go and make their team better. And do they look at a guy like Neil's holdlander at some point and say, what trade can we make with this player? And do you find yourself in a situation where you can trade him for another RFA? That may fit a bit differently? - Yeah. - Right? Where a team is looking at their player after an entry level contract and saying, man, how much do we pay this player? Right? And if it's like, okay, we're not quite sure we feel good about it. But here is Neil's holdlander, who has one year left on his deal at 1.1. We can kick that can down the road another year and we're not sure on this guy. Let's just go to this guy. Is there something like that the Canucks explore? Those are the things that you would have to consider if you're looking at trades. 'Cause as you mentioned, the Canucks don't have a ton of draft picks or mid round picks, late picks to throw and try to fill their needs. It's gonna have to be free agency or those types of trades. - It's, look, I think there could be a lot of movement on the trade market. We'll see what happens. But the RFA landscape, guys at the high end, like guys like Seth Jarvis, Quentin Byfield, Moritz Cider, they aren't getting moved, right? But a name we mentioned in the past could you do or work out some kind of a flip with Utah for a Sean Dursey. Like those are kind of the things that you're brainstorming right now probably trying to figure out where there might be other fits for you than, you know, Philip Roanick at $8 million. - Yeah, and if you can't sign, like I've said before, if you can get Roanick signed to a contract under just under $7 million, I think you have to do it. - Yeah. - I don't like paying him $7 plus. And again, I've mentioned the Seaberson comp and I think they're very similar. He's at $6.25 over $8. And I just don't feel comfortable paying him $7 million when a direct comp just last year was $750K less. And I understand paying him a bit more, but I don't like paying him over $7. But if you get him at $6.5, $6.75 even, hey, I sign him and I keep him. 'Cause it's hard to find those types of guys. But if you get above that number, that's when I get uncomfortable. - Yeah. He's a really fascinating player and a big part of the Canucks office. - Yeah, and I love that that's why the whole the Dursey type example. Like to me, that's like, if you can't sign him, the ideal type of trade would be can you get Dursey in one of their seconds? - Yeah. - Or something else in addition to that. - 'Cause you need another right shot defense man. - Yeah, if you get a right shot defense man, it's not gonna pay as much. He'll get paid a decent amount, but it'll be in that five to six range max. It won't be in the six to seven, eight range, where we're talking about her own. And I still don't see eight guys. I see like seven something, perhaps, somewhere. It's not here, but I don't see eight. Whereas Dursey's might be, maybe, you taught things of him in the four range, but he produced more and he's young. Righty is gonna be five or so, but I don't mind moves like that. Like, I'd be all for it. 'Cause you're getting a legitimate righty defense man, top four guy, saving some money on the cap, plus you're getting a draft pick. If you can do something like that. - This text, question coming in. How can Pedersen really become a better player? Strength, size, speed, any update on the Canucks? And if the Canucks have provided him with any resources to improve any of those. Look, Pedersen has shown that he's willing to put in the work in the off season. I mean, he's grown quite a bit over the last couple of years. I know it didn't look that way, maybe, towards the end, but he has gotten a lot stronger. And, I mean, Pedersen to become a better player. We've already seen him have an over a hundred point season. I think more, we're just talking about how do you get him back to playing at least at the level he was at prior to this year's all-star break? And certainly during the course of most of last season. As far as Pedersen becoming a better player, I think ultimately what you want his ceiling to be is sort of what he's shown for much of his career. And that is a high point scorer, guy who produces among the best in the National Hockey League, and also doesn't give up much the other end. Like, I don't know if he ever wins a Salke. I don't know if he ever provides defensive value like Sasha Barkov does, but Sasha Barkov, Jack Eichl, the last two Stanley, well, I'm already calling the Florida Panthers a Stanley Cup winner, but like you look at those two examples, it's not like Eichl and Barkov put up the most points in the league, but man, when they led their teams to cups, they were unbelievable at both ends of the rink and very rarely gave up much going back the other way and made it very difficult for their opponents to play against them. That's what, that's Pedersen's ceiling for me and we just didn't see it this year in the postseason. - No, I think just to sum it up with something very basic to answer the question, 'cause it asks player strength, size, speed, he needs to be sturdier on the ice. - Yeah. - Right? He needs to be sturdier. And I think if you can do those things that whatever training he needs to do to get to that stage and what can the Canucks do to give him resources, there's only so much the Canucks can do. Their regulations to what you do in the offseason. Honestly, they tell him what he needs to work on and these guys, the trainers they have. - Yes. - There's no worries about resources. That stuff is there. It just comes out to him putting the work in which I would expect that he would do, right? What about this question from Daniel and Campbell? Do you guys subscribe to France's theory that Zadorov and large hockey pool players in general, age better, Myers, Chara, the six-year deal is less scary because of that question, Mark. France, does that mean France or France? - I think he means France. - That is France. - That is France. - I don't know what, is France's theory a thing? - We employ a France. - We do, we do. - Was it published at the University of Paris that bigger athletes perform better well into their 30s? - So I do understand the point, right? Like not necessarily wrong. If you have a guy who's fleet of foot into his 30s, he can still be very effective, right? Especially defensively in playing playoff hockey if you're smart and all that stuff. In terms of Zadorov finding another gear in his game, my question about that is if you look at Chara, you look at Myers, before they got to the age of 29, they had some big seasons under the belts. Like we were talking about this last week and for all to talk about what was Zadorov's better than Myers, at the age of 29, Myers had vastly out-produced and outperformed what Zadorov has done so far in his career. - Yes. - Vastly. We're talking about a guy who's playing 23, 24 minutes a game during seasons. Zadorov's never played 20 minutes a game, putting up 30, 40 points, even more, right? The most Zadorov's ever put up in a season is 22 points. I do agree that his, he can age fine, where he can be the player he is today four or five years down the road, I think that's fine. I just don't know if there's another level to his game in the regular season, truly. I hope there is, and if you're signing him, you better bank on that being something there, right? Like you feel convinced about it, but the dude hasn't had more than 22 points in a single season before, he's 29. So like, how much more can he truly realistically achieve that he hasn't achieved so far? Char was a late bloomer, yes. But in his mid-20s was crushing with Ottawa. - Yeah. - Crushing with Ottawa. - It's very hard for me to get behind paying Zadorov at what the market might be able to bear for him this summer, because what you're paying him for is essentially a small sample of the best we've ever seen out of Nikita Zadorov, right? Like the four goals that he had in the playoffs. - Yeah. - He was dynamite, he was dynamite, he picked his spot, he scored, you know, I mean, he scored that goal against Sorrows from the wing, you know? Like it was just like crazy that that happened, and then he did it again against Stewart Skinner, right? And so like, how often is that gonna happen twice for a guy? I get the love behind Zadorov, and I think he played incredibly well. But again, you have to remember, this is a player that prior to coming to Vancouver was never really trusted to play more than 18 minutes a night. And had 14 goals last season with Calgary, but like that's the max of his offensive output that we've seen, has never really shown to be a great playmaker, although he is a good puck mover out of his own end. You know, he's not exactly a playmaker in the way we saw Aaronic and Hughes perform this year. - The way I view it is, you have to be comfortable with Zadorov being what he was in the regular season. - Being a 20-point guy. - Yeah, you gotta be comfortable. If you're paying him four to five million, I think you have to be comfortable with him being 20-some point guy in the regular season. Be the type of player you've seen him be, and then you get the better version in the playoffs. - Yeah. - I think that's the most realistic version you're going to get from him, right? I hope there is more, right? I hope to see him become a more consistent player that can play more minutes and be more productive. I hope so, but you have to be comfortable if you sign on that contract for that to be the case. And if you're not, then you gotta really reconsider how comfortable you are paying this guy for, I mean, five million plus. - Stan Rachel, Satyar Shah, tomorrow. Overrated, underrated. - I may have a personal submission for overrated, underrated tomorrow, because I made an impulse buy on the weekend. I bought a ninja creamy. - A ninja creamy? - And I make myself ice cream every single night. (laughing) - Is it good or do we have to-- - It is the most incredible purchase I've ever made. - Really? - So yes, I don't know if it's, I've already spoiled it, if it's overrated or underrated, but-- - I hadn't even heard of it. - Now I-- - Really? - I just want to know more about it. - Oh man, it was protein ice cream, 300 calories for a whole tub of ice cream every single night with over 40 grams of protein. Is it crazy to use? It's fairly easy to use, yes. - Okay. - The only problem is waiting 24 hours for your recipe to freeze up. - Oh, 24 hours. - Yes. - Okay. But once you get through that first day-- - Oh, and it's a nonstop ice cream machine. - Yeah, you got ice cream for days after that. - Anyways, overrated underrated tomorrow plus Kevin Woodley and we'll have lots more on your Vancouver Canucks and their plans for the off season. - Are you gonna bring ice cream in tomorrow? - No. - Okay. - It's strictly for me. - I was definitely gonna say, I'm like, "For us to test this properly, you should bring some in." - Okay, may, may, may, man. - Now we have to make-- (laughing) Which is like, I had no ice cream on the go. (laughing) - I have one for tonight. - Anyways. - Any ice cream for tonight? - Peanut butter. Peanut butter and then I'll mix in some chocolate chips. So it's kind of like a Reese's peanut butter cup. - Wow. - Ninja creamy. - I know. It's, I am the most easily influenced by TikTok person on the planet. It is unbelievable. - That's your thing, all right. - For producers Ben and Josh, my co-host Sat. I'm Dan, even listening to Canucks Central. [BLANK_AUDIO]
