(upbeat music) We're back on Canucks Central, Dan Riccio and Satyarsha. We're here in the Kintec Studio and continuing to talk Canucks. Plus a lot of other things. Let's bring in our goalie guru. He is Kevin Woodley. He joins us every Wednesday on Canucks Central and he is a presentation of White Rock Hyundai. What's happening Woodley? - Not much, boys, not much. Just missing hockey tonight, like two day gap, but I guess it's a good thing considering one team can't even get to Edmonton, so we'll take the extra day. - It doesn't seem like great planning, does it? Like I know people want to avoid Edmonton as much as possible, but like, just why don't want to fly there yesterday? - Yeah, and it's not like any of the Florida Panthers have to drive a car into an unpaid parking lot. There's no way for a big deal. One of my listen folks, easy. Everyone from Edmonton, it's a pet peeve that goes back to covering the '06 Cup Final. Relax, I love you. I love the city. I love Alberta. I just tease. - It's been a, I mean, an interesting first couple of games. Obviously, Bobrovsky was unbelievable in game one, and for the first time in the playoffs, he gave up a goal five hole in game two, but it didn't matter for the Oilers as at Florida was pretty good, but, you know, as far as Bobrovsky goes, I, assuming, or thinking about Florida being two wins away and having a real good chance at closing this thing out, like do you think he is a rare candidate for a goalie cons might winner? - Ooh, game one probably tipped a few things. - Yeah. - In his side, like, he's still yet, he's still not the best goalie in the playoffs. - Yeah. - You know, but he's getting up there and from an adjusted, say, percentage level up near the Yorkshire American, although that one between the legs, you know, it's funny, it's five hole 'cause it goes to, but it's not like it's along the ice. And I think the one thing, so yeah, he's probably in that conversation. I'll be honest, I don't vote. I'm not covering this series personally, so I'm not paying as close attention to it, you know, in terms of the other deserving candidates. First round wasn't, he made highlight real saves and yet his numbers washed out below expected, right? Like, so he hasn't had to stand on his head throughout and I think there are other guys. I think there are things about his environment that have more to do with a lot of the guys in front of him and it'll be interesting to see if that gets recognized more so than his performance behind it. And I think we saw that in game two, right? He didn't have to do a lot on like game one. So, you know, recency bias, if he pulls it, if he has another game where Edmonton dominates and he plays as well as he does in game one, then I think that'll be a lot harder to avoid. And as the goalie guy, I should just be screaming, yes, give it to the goalie every single year, you know, but we're in a run here where, you know, we've had Darcy camper named Hill and, you know, different guys win the cup. Not to discount their performances, Hill was really good. And, but I do think a lot of the times, it's about having a system that, you know, sort of supports your goalie in a near-perfect way. And, you know, one of the things that I would take away from the goal that he gave up to at-home, if I'm Edmonton, is stop trying to be so perfect offensively. I sort of harken back to the lesson, they were a little slow to learn on our Tercy loves. And the second round, once they did it, paid off. Bob has similar issues with long-range tracking. Like he does not necessarily track pucks well from distance. And so you can catch him playing low from mid zone. You can catch him transitioning in stances from higher in the zone. But if you continue to try and tic-tac-toe your way to the goal and everything ends up down low and tight, like you're playing to the strengths of one of the best lateral, you know, moving goalies in the entire league, one of the most explosive. And so they need, I think, to have a little bit of a shift here. Like, especially that first power playing game too, like just trying to put everything through the seams and great. Like if you can complete three or four seam passes in a row against the Florida Panthers, you might actually be able to move the pace enough to get Bob out of position. But the chances of doing it against a team that shuts down the middle and in front of the net this well seem low. And then the second part of that is from those shots higher in the zone, if you get tips and traffic and then the type of things they did so well against. See loves, even though it goes against sort of who they are offensively in their DNA, you can get second chance opportunities. You can strand him at the top of his crease because he is aggressive positionally on plays higher in the zone. And this is where sort of the conversation about goalies that fit the system matters so much more right now than it has in the past or is being paid attention to so much more. Good luck getting to those second chances. Like how many of those battles do you win? How many of the Oilers won in the first two games of this series? Even when there are loose pucks around Bob, how many times are they the first ones on it? And even when they are, how many times is there not? Either a stick in their back knocking them down or stick on stick or some type of pressure. I think at the Hyman one, where he went forehand backhand and over the net, and that might be the only chance where Edmonton's won a puck clean down low in a second chance opportunity so far in this series. Yeah, there hasn't been a lot of-- and it just shows how hard it is to even get there to begin with, but especially when we get this far into the playoffs. Neither team's generating a ton and now a bit more from Florida, but it was really interesting to kind of watch how hard it was to get to those spots between these two teams so far in this series. But you know, Ompa Brofs gets-- it's really funny to me because I usually-- I don't like the phrase, generally. Goal-tending is voodoo. I think it's an easy way to kind of cop out of real detailed analysis and the knowledge you need to be able to figure out goal-tending. But at the same time, I always find things that test my resolve with that take. Because Brobowski's 35 years old. And we all thought, OK, he's going to sign the seven-year deal. We're 10 million per season. He'll be really bad when he gets to his mid-30s, but he'll be fine to begin. And then he's had his struggles in the middle of that contract. But now he's looking a lot better. Like, what does it kind of say about goal-tending and how hard it is to evaluate, though, when you're watching a 35-year-old, now earn his money at the atail end of his career? Well, I could just tell you that goal-tending is voodoo, but I don't think my friends that Murray White Rock Hyundai would sponsor me, if that's all I said every week. So I'll give you some background. I'll give you some background on Sergey Babrowski and why we're seeing what we're seeing. So first of all, the foundation was laid after he went from Philadelphia to Columbus. So for all the Philadelphia Flyers fans out there that still lament that loss, and there's still plenty to do why the hell do we ever trade Sergey Babrowski? If you go back and watch footage of how he played in Philly, like it was crazy. So low, so locked in early. His elbows, literally, like no exaggeration. Go find photos. When he got into his safe stance, his elbows were literally pulled back around his ears. Like, he looked like a spider monkey. That's how he was playing goal. So scratch that. Gets the Columbus, adds some of the structure that we still see today. That looks very familiar to how a Thatcher Demko and Archer, she loves plays by Ian Clark in terms of post play and some of the movement patterns. But he, and tell me if you heard this before, when it comes to, you know, like, say a Thatcher Demko, he ran into lower body injuries around 2014 after the first Fezna, just repeated. I think there was one season where he missed three different stretches with lower body injuries. So he works in the off season. He would train at Red Bull Salzburg in Austria, and they hire a Finnish goalie coach named Hanoo Nyquist. And Hanoo met a Finnish former martial arts expert, I think Hanmodo or Hando. I can't remember the name of the martial art. It's not one of your everyday varieties who had gotten into goalie training 'cause he saw some of the similarities between sort of how a goalie has to move and has to have access to explosive power and yet keep it in reserve and patient most of the time. And he started training and developing training methods that were, you know, sort of based on more of these martial arts philosophies and applying the goal of attending. They were introduced to each other. It's now, since 2016, they've so now worked together like eight years. They're still working together, these three. Alongside the goalie coaches, first Ian Clark and now Robbie Talis in Florida, to try and make Bob's body better prepared to sort of handle the rigors of an NHL season. And very quickly after that, he won his second visit trophy and he's obviously having the success now. Now that answers the, how is he doing it at this age? And I think a lot of it is him changing his training. And I would suggest having gotten into some of the methods and methodology and thought behind it, it isn't dissimilar to Thatcher, Demko switching over to Adam Fransillia. It's not identical, but it's sort of, there's a lot of sort of deeper understanding of body mechanics that are going on here in terms of how you train and how you move. And so that's, you know, they're tied that into the Canucks at Bowes Well for Demko, despite what happened at the end of this season. So that's how he's doing it at 35. Totally changed what he was doing, how he trains, you know, finished martial arts guy. Like it's got, that story's got every kind of weird twist you could imagine. It's all true. We have a version of it up at Inglomeg.com that originally we ran almost four years ago. The second part, and this is where, you know, you could argue it's a little more voodoo-ish for sure, the struggles early on in Florida compared to what's happening now. 'Cause we knew they weren't physiological 'cause he'd solve that by then. They've been working together for a while. As a matter of fact, his health since then is quite remarkable. I think he's only missed a couple of stretches. Only one of them, if I'm correct, due to lower body. But he has the pressure of a $70 million contract and that's a real thing. He's yet to have his first child, which only happened in the last couple of years. I want to say times of flat circle since the pandemic. So it's two or three. And that helped change some perspective stuff for him. And the reality is, and this is back to needing to have the right match, the reality is the Florida Panthers weren't that good then. Right? They hadn't committed defensively the way they do now. And so at the end of the day, you can have all those other components fall into place for a goaltender. And if he's not on a team that, whether it's just, you know, blanket statement, good defensively, good overall, or your ultimate statement in terms of that synergy, a team that's good defensively and does things that suit your strengths and doesn't allow a team to get to your weaknesses as often, it doesn't matter without, like, you can be good and nobody will notice. Bob was tracking awards 400 wins, two Vessna trophies. And in my mind, that's the automatic entry in the Hall of Fame before. But are we having the conversation if he doesn't end up behind a wagon of a Panthers team that's in a cup final for two straight years? I think when he retired, we would have had the conversation and I would have voted yes. But if he doesn't end up on this team in this moment, I'm not sure everybody else is. And so at the end of the day, as much as we like to say goalie is voodoo or other people like to say goalie is voodoo, I'd go back to my preferred statement that I've used over the years. And that's a goaltending, doesn't exist in a vacuum. And you can have everything else in place and a really good goaltender. And if the support and the structure, structure, structure, Canucks fans isn't in place in front of him, none of it matters. Whether it's Sergey Babrowski early in his career with the Florida or his stint with the Florida Panthers or Thatcher Demko two years ago in the first full season under Bruce Boudreau. It doesn't matter how good you are if it's a tire fire in front of you. - What a flex though. You say, hey, you wouldn't get paid by White Rock Hyundai if you just said goaltending is voodoo, then it goes off and tells us an incredibly detailed story like that, that's great stuff, man. Now, what you also mentioned there about Demko, like there were some similarities, is that something you can look at if it's Vancouver or somebody else who makes a long-term investment on Demko, that there's a path similar to Babrowski, now not everybody's the same, where he can be healthier and you can see longevity into his thirties. - So why'd you say whether it's Vancouver or somebody else? - I'm just saying, I'm not gonna mean it in that way. I didn't wanna be like, I don't want to make everything about should the Canucks extend Demko or not, I'm just asking in general about Demko. That's all, that's all. - So that's about to get radioed. - I'm gonna make you listen, I just, I ask only because I had that question asked of me and I thought, why are, why, why person from another team, are you asking me about that, your Demko's health? Is he available? - Yeah, I mean, what I will say about this management team is that they'll probably talk about anybody if you call them, right? So we'll leave it at that. - Well, and listen, like if my ears perked up when you said that because my ears perked up when I had somebody else from another organization asking me questions about his health. And so my answer to both is that the work he is doing, I believe firmly will help him sort of stay healthier, have a longer career. At the end of the day, this is a goaltender who's now had injuries to both knees in the last three years, had his hips done coming out of college. And all those things, like none of those things have to be limiting. You can get, we've talked for years about goalies that have that hip surgery, including Thatcher and feel better. It's like, it's a significant surgery and it can go wrong. But for a lot of guys, it's like having an oil change. Like everything works better. And it doesn't have a sort of shelf life on it for a lot of guys. So the same can be true of the knee injuries at the end of this year. I've already said what I said about, you know, the knee injury two seasons ago and how that ultimately led to the groin injury. And I do believe all the things he's changed will give him the best chance to have a longer, healthier career than he would have otherwise. But that this is a position that also puts a ton of stress on the body and none of that is guaranteed for anyone at a time when we're seeing goal tenders play less and less and have more and more health problems in general. So there are no absolutes. There's no way that I can say in a vacuum. He will be, you know, he will be playing and it's healthy as Bob at age 35. But I will say that I'm confident because I've seen other guys do this that the changes he's made and how he takes care of himself, prepares to play and trains to play and ultimately moves should give him a better chance of doing so. - So something we haven't been able to get to the last couple of weeks with your hits. But I wanted to get to it this week because, you know, the off season is just around the corner. Sat and I have been talking a lot about free agent options for the Canucks. Obviously, they're not looking so much in goal. But when I do look at the goalie options in free agency, it's not a lot of number one types, let's say, that are out there and available. But there does seem to be number one types available in trade, whether it's Lina Solmark, we've talked about Jacob Markstrom in the past. Do you think some of these goalies do get moved this off season? - Well, I mean, I saw, I think it was Elliot this morning, or at least somebody tweeted a quote about a report he made. So I gotta be careful that I don't radio Elliot based on something I read on Twitter. But, you know, that the flames were still hopeful that they could be the team that Jacob Markstrom wants to go to a winner, and they were still hopeful they could be that team. My information is that's not likely to happen. I don't believe you'll see him back in Calgary. I think he is very much on the trade market and frankly, has no intention of going back. So like it's not quite, we're not quite in slapshot, trade me right now, but I feel like we're not that's not far removed from sort of where that situation is at. So I fully expect him to be moved and he should be the belt of all, frankly. Even with Lina Solmark potentially on the market. And I say that not because I'm saying one's better than the other, although I do like to fit in Jersey because of Hurricane that requires Superman saves and, you know, highlight real stuff. They give up way too much. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. So you need a guy who can be an acrobat. And that's Jacob Markstrom compared to Lina Solmark. On the market, the interesting part there is again, controls his future and I'm not sure he wants to move. So that becomes a big question mark for me. The other name that is very much on the market right now is John Gibson in Anaheim, actively so. But haven't sort of found any links to a team in particular that, you know, whether it's interest or just, you know, conversations or think the way things are going. So there are no shortage. To me, the shortage of number ones or proven bonafide number ones on the open market just sort of ramps up and sort of puts more attention on the amount and quality of the number ones who I believe are definitely available right now on the trade market. The question becomes, especially with the trade protection and the say that gives you and where you will go, doesn't actually mean we're gonna see somebody get value or good value in a goalie trade. 'Cause history says it's a deflated asset. Are these teams going to be able to get more than they have in recent years for guys who, again, you know, I mean, Lina Solmarks, a seed and remove from the Vesnotropy and deservedly so is the winner. And again, for all the sort of, we gotta keep Swamin and we gotta get rid of Olmark talking to Boston. During the regular season, Lina Solmarks suggested same percentage actually finished higher than Jeremy Swamin. This year. - Well, and you know what, you mentioned that too. One of the things that I've been thinking about, we talked about this a few times, but there are 32 teams down the league, right? Like, does that almost help the value of higher end players? Be they goal, these are not because there's only so many of them to go around. - Yeah, it's, I mean, not only is there a demand, right? 'Cause there's 32 teams, but like how big is the list of guys that you would call, like, surefire guaranteed, locked in number one, you know, maybe throw around the word cheapishly elite, right? Like, that's a short list, right? And it's also why I think there's trepidation about a couple of the prime restricted free agents and what they might command, whether it's Igor Shisterkin with the New York Rangers, and he's the guy that Bob's chasing when I talked about, you know, the best goalie in the playoffs so far, statistically it's Igor Shisterkin, even though he's done the head, you know, earlier than Bob. Ilya Sorokin, we thought he might have reset the market for, you know, 'cause we saw for years, Markstrom was only six. Demko had five, the guys were sort of settling in at that five, six range, and all of a sudden Sorokin, and we didn't think we'd see another Bob at 10. But Sorokin gets eight and a half, and he ends up sitting on the bench, and she's not your starter in the playoffs, right? Like to me, as much as, you know, Bob's success this year and the number that Sorokin got may have been things that drive the price of goaltending up in some eyes. I look at what happened, especially with Sorokin this year, and I'm like, am I having, you know, is this a cautionary tale for a team that's like, hey, we think our guys are in elite number one, but in a time when the position's just never being more volatile, are we willing to commit that much to it? So like in some ways that should drive up the price on Jacob Markstrom, because relatively speaking, he's a bargain for two more years at six. I don't got to commit term, and I don't have to get into the eights with the price tag. So as much as Calgary got ripped for not completing the trades he signed off on prior to the trade deadline, I believe that further poisoned that relationship. Maybe they ultimately end up doing better, because like you said, there's a scarcity of guys that fit his bill, and more teams that need someone like that than the numbers that are available on the open market, for sure. - Woodley, we appreciate the time as always. Thanks for this. - In my pleasure, we didn't even get into Stuart Skinner, guys. - Oh yeah, we'll be quickly, he's been okay? - He's been okay, but honestly, there are, and a lot of people are just looking at it, like it's not Stewie's fault, and I'm not blaming him, but even on the bang bang, like tough goals, there are things he should do differently and could do differently. Maybe this will come with age, he's still only second year in the NHL, but in terms of, you know, pucks behind the net, pass into the slot, that's a bang bang play really tough. Watch the puck go below the goal line, never looks off it, never takes his head off of puck in an und dangerous area, scans the zone to see where the thread is. So he pushes out blindly and has to readjust. Tough save, but he's not giving himself the best chance. Even the back door to Verhagi almost gets there. There's no need to be outside your post when Barkoff's on the backhand at the dot, you can cheat off that, and then you get there, and with Verhagi gets it up over your pad, it doesn't matter, 'cause your pants are already there, you've had that extra half a second to push further across. The goal off the Boucher giveaway, or Bouchard, who's part of me, giveaway in game two, obviously egregious giveaway. But again, again, there's a screen in the middle. He chooses to look around the left side of it. When I saw a short side lane, short side lane allows him to keep vision on the puck, and he's not out of position when that shot goes short side high. He's just making his life a lot harder than it needs to be with reads and awareness that still needs to mature at the NHL level. So it's certainly not on him, but those are the differences beyond all the physical tools that Ababroski has, the experience of knowing those reads at a higher level, processing them faster are things that I think still need to develop, and still can in Stuart Skinner's game. - Woodley, you're the best. Thanks for this. - Thanks, guys. - There he is. Kevin Woodley on Sports at 650 Bratty by White Rock. Hyundai, visit the showroom on King George, or in White Rock, or whiterockhunday.com. Dan Richeaux and Sati Arshra, you know, it's funny because there are things, there are times like, even I'm like, what the heck is Stuart Skinner doing? He looks so out of position, he looks so awkward. You're like, this guy's all over the place, and you saw it too in the Canucks series, but at the same time, yeah, like some of the goals that have gone in for Florida in this series, it's not necessarily Stuart Skinner's fault. - But it's one of those things, he's done enough for them. It's about the rest of the team at this point, right? - And are you giving yourself the best chance to be able to make that big save for your team? - For sure, and all those issues are there, but he's still giving his team a chance, like if they've been in the games, they haven't come through offensively. That's been the issue in this series, not scoring. - McDavid, where is he, I mean, he's been quiet, they're two games, right? Like, we know what the Oilers mantra is, they need McDavid and Drycidal to go, and Drycidal too has been pretty quiet in the series, outside from trying to take Sasha Barcov's head off. It's Dan Richeaux and Satyarsha, more Canucks Central coming out on Sportsnet 650. (upbeat music) - Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drans, get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on Sportsnet 650, or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. (bell dings)
