[MUSIC] Fan Morning Show 4759 of the fan badass, Frank Gunning. So there will be no sweeps in either the Stanley Cup Final or the NBA Finals as the Mavericks trying to stay alive tonight. Serious shifting back to Boston. Very similarly have these two series played out, right? Down 3-0, Mavericks is hammer. The Celtics in Game 4, down 3-0, in Edmonton. The Oilers just hammer the Panthers in Game 4, 8-1, setting up Game 5 tomorrow night in Sunrise, Florida. I will say just from personal perspective, I feel very differently about the two series. Part of that is I think the the Oilers are more legit than the Mavericks. But part of it is like the history of the sport. And it happening four times in NHL history that a team has come back from a 3-0 series deficit. And twice in the last 14 years, you only have to go back 10 years to see the last time it happened as the Kings beat the San Jose Sharks being down 3-0. In the first round of the 2014 playoffs and then of course 2010, Flyers, Bruins. It's only happened once in the finals, but like that, there is proof of concept. It's never happened in the NBA playoffs. Part of that is just a math equation, there just hasn't been as many series, like we used to have best three to five in the first round of the NBA playoffs. But how different do you feel about those two 3-0 series deficits in those two sports? I think it's the nature of the sport in and of itself. Like when we went to the expanded playoffs and the play in, my entire thing, and we've had this conversation in the NHL, and until the heat, I felt like I would forever have had this like to stand on was that I was fine with a play in existing in the NBA because whoever got through there was just going to get their teeth kicked in by the good teams. Whereas in the NHL, that is entirely possible, you get hot goalie. You get hot power play thing X that propels you to the next round. We've seen upsets ad nauseam in that sport. So I think that's the reason why I was most not liking the idea of an expanded playoff. And it's because anything can kind of happen with hockey. So that is why I didn't like the idea of it. I want the teams that deserve to be there to have the punchers chance, not everybody. So too, that's why that's for that reason is why I say, yeah, it's way more likely that the Oilers would come back because of the sport, but also as good as I think Luca Donciches. I think he's amazing. He ain't gone to McDavid. No, no, he's top three MVP finisher this season. Yeah. Jason Tatum. Jalen Brown. Not that. Another concept in the NHL, right? Connor McDavid can talk to his teammates and say, hey, this is not like otherworldly. This is not something that's never happened 10 years ago. What happened? Yep. This is, we're not that dissimilar a team to the Florida Panthers. We got gold in a bunch of these games early on. We can do this. Obviously, you can't just create a 3-0 series comeback. But if you could, I bet you Adam Silver wishes he had something to point to, right? Because as bullish, and you're going to do this if you're Dallas, because what other choice do you have? You've got a long off season to come, right? Way to do you. But there's nothing. You cannot, at least now, majorly baseball. It happens, and you can point to the 04 Red Sox as it's only happened once. Yeah, why not us? But it has happened. But in the NBA, you got nothing. It's like, yeah, we can be the first, and as much as self-belief is a big thing, and you can convince yourself that, oh yeah, in the back of your head, you have to be thinking, oh, there's a reason why it doesn't happen in this sport, which is honestly my thought press process going into 2004 with the Red Sox. I mean, who wouldn't have thought this? Also, you know, you added on the whole curse of it all. But like, oh yeah, they're not coming back, because it doesn't happen in this sport. It's too random to win that many consecutive games in a postseason. It's not going to happen. Then it happened, and now we can believe. In the NBA, until it happens, there has to be a thing in the back of your head, as much as you're great at convincing yourself, you're capable of doing something. How can you not just think about the length of history in your sport, and it never happening, and that creeping into your mindset? Yeah, the weird thing is, is we think of the NBA as the sport where the one guy matters the most, and obviously the star does have an outsized impact in that sport. When I look to baseball and I look to hockey, they each have the one position that if that guy is going, there's kind of nothing that can be done. If the goalie is going to stand on his head, and I know we've been saying that about Babrovsky, but how many comebacks in playoff series have happened with the team trailing goalie getting hot? If the goalie goes transcendent, nuclear, sometimes there is just nothing you can do. In baseball, if you have, and it's not one guy every day, so that's why it is harder to come. If you have two, three, potentially four starting pitchers that are just going to shove and be nails at a certain point, not to turn myself into John Schneider here, you got to tip the cap and there's kind of nothing you can do. In the NBA, we do see those performances from superstars, but it's just so hard to see it in kind of consecutive games, whereas it does feel like it's so much easier to kind of game plan for a superstar in the NBA than it is a goaltender in the NHL. Yeah, there's no way to go to game plan against their kitchen. That's all we say. I mean, which is true, sure, and there are supposed to be rules in place, but you watch Cup final before? Yeah, I mean, there is. So there is that. I think the more effective way would be to just like score some goals and then like eliminate whatever mental hole that in the mental kitchen to yeah, which may be happening for the Oilers as well as they score eight times in game four, five of which against their game of Babrovsky. Who is I still imagine the favorite to win the consmith? All right, time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley, North Lexus dot com. It's great. Luke Fox. How's it going? Luke. It's going pretty good. I made it to Florida. Good for you. Good for you. It feels like it's been a while since we chatted. It's good to hear from you. Are the ingredients there for the Oilers to make history and come back from the three Oh series deficit becoming just the second team in finals history? Yeah, you know what? I was talking to with someone about this and you know, so much of sports is about legacy And if you're Conor McDavid and Leon Drey's title, you should be saying yourselves, what an incredible opportunity. How rare is it that a team comes back all three and does the reverse sweep and wins a Stanley Cup like, yeah, we dug ourselves a hole. But if we can get three more wins, like people are going to talk about this forever. Whenever someone brings up this team, whenever someone brings up a David or dry title, that might be one of the first things they mentioned, how they pulled off the impossible and did the reverse sweep one four in a row and shocked the world. So that's kind of the mind frame. I think they should be in like they have they they have nothing to lose. Now, in saying that, I don't think it's I don't think it's very likely that I've been around this this Florida Panthers group a long time now and they don't get too rattled when things go sideways and things went really sideways, shattered it. But this is a pretty consistent group, a deep group. They still have two home games. If they need them, they got last change, they're the best defensive team in hockey. I think they will flush that one and deliver a much better effort tomorrow. So is that and you know, I understand every team is different, every group is different, but is that right there? What you just said, the kind of distillation of the advantage that the Panthers have. I mean, we've seen this movie a few times recently, an NHL history of team gets closed. They get over the hump the second time. Is that kind of what we talk about and Lord knows without enough conversations about learning lessons in this market? But is that kind of the simplest kind of way to distill it down of what you're talking about there is just that they've gained that the ability to know how the confidence, whatever way you want to put it from last year's Cup final to this year. Yeah, they talk a lot about last year's Cup final and how the desire to get back here. Not even just the desire, the expectation that they would be back here started right in training camp and they had a really hard training camp and they like it's really strange for hockey players to bring up training camp in June, but a lot of them have referenced it in terms of their conditioning and physically end their mindset being on getting to this place and they're the best third period team in hockey. They were in the regular season and they are in the playoffs and they believe that that has to do with the conditioning that started way back in September. Now what I would say is that what happened Saturday night was it something that they hadn't experienced. That the franchise has never been in a position to clinch and it really reminded me of the 22 Colorado Avalanche. So you talk to those guys, they had a chance to clinch and eliminate the Tampa Bay Lightning and all of a sudden all their families are there. They're worried about tickets and they're talking about the Stanley Cop and what it would be like when we're on the ice altogether and taking pictures and it was like overwhelming to them and they admitted later that it kind of that opportunity to, okay this is our first time in our lives to clinch and lift the Stanley Cop and it's a madhouse. So all the Panthers families are flying to Edmonton because hey you want to be there, right? Brady Kachuk is up there watching Matthew and it really throws you and the Avalanche said that year we needed the next game. Then it was like, okay you kind of take a breath, you calm down. So I would be shocked if the Panthers, I'm not saying they're guaranteeing a win but I'd be shocked if they deliver a flat performance. I think they need to get over that. Yeah, maybe that was Rory McElroy's problem, the final three holes. But he had two shots. Like if that happened on 16 he was like, I just need another, okay let's flash that. Put that aside, two and a half foot putt. Give me another one than they did on 18 and he missed that one too. What idea for him? So is there a scenario where the Panthers win this series and Sir Gabe Abrovsky is not the conspite winner because I kind of thought like the two were wearing a twine there. I guess Sasha Barkov is creeping ever closer according to Vegas. And rightfully so, after the game you go and dissect the game and I hang out with a lot of my fellow cons and it's a hot debate. What if he gives up six tomorrow? I don't think it's a done deal. I still think he's the front runner but Barkov has been incredible. So what if they win six, five and Barkov has four points? I do think the race is that narrow that he has a chance to edge him out. Is it fair to say though that Babrovsky still has to kind of lose it one more time? Like I agree with you. If you know, Barkov has a five point night or something like that in the win, it almost doesn't matter what the score is. I can see a world but to me it does feel like Babrovsky has to kind of throw one more egg of a game for him to kind of lose this thing or are you not seeing it that way? Yeah, I think it's tight. I think we got to watch another game. Maybe watch two more games. Why not three? Why not? Let's get ready. Why not? But what I would say though is Babrovsky's case is strong. So when Anthony Stoller goes into the game, I look up Anthony Stoller's game log. You know, last game he played two months ago against the Toronto Maple Leafs. Babrovsky has owned that net. Like, talk about workload. The backup hasn't even seen any action in two months. Like, I'm with you and like, let's give this guy a little bit of a break. He had a bad game. I thought it was smart of Paul Maurice to just hook him out of there. It was unbelievable. The Oilers fans, credit to them. They were on him just, you know, saying, sir, gay, sir, gay, and they were just shaming him with these glittery things that they handed out to every person. And then they started Bronx cheering him, making, you know, long-distance jump-in saves. And so it was out there when he did. Yeah. And we'll say one game does not a series make. We'll see if they're able to repeat that performance or something similar to that performance tomorrow in Sunrise. All right, Leafs. You got to talk to the Leafs. All right. How's that? Like, so you're traveling with all the national hockey media, again, I'm sure there's a lot of Mitch Marner discussions. Like, how was the conversation shifted over the last couple of weeks? Yeah. I mean, for sure, he comes up and there's a lot of, you know, a lot of you have theories on what they should do or what they shouldn't do. What I would tell you is, I think the Maple Leafs are open to moving him for the right deal. But I don't think they want this to get public. I don't think they want this to get dirty. I think they want to work with Mitch Marner. And I think a great example is how Brad Trey Living, you know, worked Matthew Kucharck's exit out of Calgary. The player had all the leverage, but, you know, he wanted it to be amicable. He worked with Kucharck and said, okay, where do you want to go? Let me see if I can find a trade that makes sense for the team. And yeah, Jonathan Huberdough has not panned out that extension with a bad extension. It's looking horrible. But Mackenzie Wieger is a top-word offensive in the NHL. He is a good contributor to the Calgary Flames. And at the time of the deal with the player holding all the leverage, you know, us analysts were saying, hey, that's not a bad return. You were going to lose this player eventually. The player held all the cards, which is the same case with Garner, and he did okay. I think that's the kind of deal, and that's the kind of process that he wants to work with Marner. Can we work with the player to find something that works for Mitch and that works for the Leafs? Now, if they don't find that, or if Marner digs in his heels and says, no, I'm playing at my contract here, I don't care what the fans think, I don't care, you know, what you guys want, I think the best chance for me to pile up a bunch of points in my contract here is to start a power play, stay playing with Austin, then so be it, it is his choice. But I think the team wants to work with the guy. I don't think this is going to get dirty, and they're going to try and turn the fan base against Mitch or anything like that. Does that mean then that we get a relatively quick resolution to this and a kind of we're not moving on? This is our team from Brad for Living, because if they want to do this quickly, it does seem like it have to be kind of done at the draft, wrapped up by free agency. And if it doesn't, then, you know, if he's still a leaf into free agency, any move that is made in free agency is viewed through the lens of what does this mean about Marner? What does this mean about his future? If they do want to keep it quiet, does it not feel like it would have to be dealt with at the draft? And then maybe a statement kind of from the team one way or another? I mean, we know the GM is going to talk that during that weekend there. So does it all roads kind of point to us really understanding where this is going to end up at by the time the draft's done? Well, that would be the team's preference, absolutely, but it's not entirely their choice. That's the tricky part here. You know, Marner would have to want things to be settled that early, and there's no pressure. Just the same thing with Kneelander at this time last year. There was no pressure on him as long as he believed in his abilities. He didn't have to sign right away. He didn't have to do anything. You know, this is all because you give the guy full no move. You hand all this control to the player, then you can't be upset. You know, yeah, the team would like things settled by the draft. That's when most GMs want to get their structure in place and make their plan. You want to get, you know what's happening with your biggest fish that you can fill in the gaps, but hey, that could Chuck Trade happen in the middle of the summer. Like it doesn't mean it's impossible. Now, what I find interesting, and if I'm a competitive team, there's a third party here, which is who wants Marner? If the Leafs aren't going to resign him in 2025, even if he plays out half a year, full year, he's got to play somewhere. If I'm an opposing GM, this is a all-star winger, 99-point guy in his prime. The cap is going up and up and up every year. Do you not want a guy like this, marketable player, penalty kill, power play, he does everything. Like if you're, you know, Ryan Smith in Utah, if you're the Seattle Kraken and you can't score a goal, like there should be some aggression from the opposing GMs. Like I think, you know, these guys don't come available very much. They should be more aggressive. 100% and it's why I think that the Leafs at this point must have a pretty good idea of what they're going to get in return for Mitch Marner, right? Like the idea that they're all still humming in a horn, and we don't know what, like nothing's been publicly stated, obviously, or leaked about a potential return. We've heard various teams mentioned as part of the rumor process, but the idea that you'd still be confused about what you'd be looking at for a return, I agree with you. There's many a team that would love a Mitch Marner, and why shouldn't they, right? Like the regular season statistics are undeniable. It's all the post-season, but there's a bunch of teams that would just love to be playing in the post-season, and Mitch Marner can definitely help you get there and you could always dream on him changing the narrative when it comes to the spring. That's what's a little confusing to me here that it still feels very nebulous, unless it's posturing, that like Brad for a living must have a pretty good idea if he's going to get what he wants in return via trade, and that it still feels like wishy-washy, where it could go one way or another. It's two weeks away from the opening of free agency, and that's a big part of it, too. Like are you freeing up a bunch of cash to go splash under your blue line? You would love to have an idea of where you stand in that regard. It's hard for me to hear some of the talk that they're still undecided as to what their plan of action is with Mitch Marner. Yeah, well, I'm sure he has a feel for the landscape of what he could get today, but maybe it's not that great. Like if it was great and if Mitch wanted to go there, it would be done. So the team is in a pickle. The team is in a pickle. Now, that said, even if Mitch is part of the team in the fall, they have guys, a lot of free agents coming off the books, so the team is going to look different. You know, don't meet in Petuzzi, we're making some good money, that's coming off the books. Brody's coming off, Geo's coming off, that wasn't a lot of money, but he's coming off. The defense is going to look different. They have enough cap space that they can take a run at one of the bigger D-Men. I think they're going to get maybe a second tier D-Man as well. I think there's up front, they're hoping Matthew Nye's takes a step. There may be an opportunity for a Minton or a Cowan, you know, play a few games, see if they can stick, and that would be good because they're on entry-level deals. So I do think the team is going to look different. They need to find a goalie. There's lots of things that are going to happen regardless of what happens with Martin. Yeah, they're going to have a lot of room at play there, and he mentioned Geo's money coming off the books. Brad's living as a whole bunch of change in his pocket, jingling around now, now that that's taking care of there. I do want to go back to the kachuk trade of it all, and I'm sure that's informative for him. I wonder if simply the biggest lesson he takes out of that is less is more. I've made this point before, but I'll make it again. If he just trades kachuk for Mackenzie Wieger, a first round pick, and hey, if it doesn't want Huberto, I'm sure he could have got a little else in there, we're talking about it at a completely different light. They're not saddled with this quite frankly bad contract. I do wonder if that's simply the lesson that he takes out of this is not to get hamstrung in the return with having to have a particular type of player coming back. I would have to think for me that'd be the biggest lesson I would take out of it if I was tri-living. Yeah. And the other thing I would say is it doesn't have to be one move, say you want Seth Jones. It doesn't have to be Marner for Seth Jones and something. It could be just Marner for a lot of picks and free cap space, and maybe a role player, and then you turn those picks and go hunting at the deadline, and you're a big game hunter at the deadline. It could be a two-step process. You don't have to hit your home run. You could just gain assets and then spend those assets in a trade with another team. Last one. Gibusche predictably done as he was not in the running to be predictably. I'm shocked. The next head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs after his vaunted power play. During the regular season, the numbers weren't abhorrent. They finished seventh in the NHL in power play percentage, but yeah, one for 22. And you're the face of it? You gots to go. And we all just assume the Marks of Art thing is about to happen after he and the Flames parted ways. They've made some moves. What's the hold-up on so far? That's going to happen. He's going to be the face of the power play next, right? That's what I'm assuming, but yeah, no announcement yet, so maybe not. Maybe they are talking to some other guys. I think the organization wanted to part waves with Gibusche right away, but I think they just wanted to do this in a step-by-step process. Let's hire the head coach. Give the head coach the option of keeping the assistant just the way when they hired the GM. You give the GM the option to keep the head coach, but you know, Bruh Bay obviously has a vision. He's going to fill out his stuff. But yeah, the fact that Savard and the Flames part of waves, it raises eyebrows. You certainly assume he's the front runner, but let's see. Yeah, we shall see. Luke, thanks as always, pal. All right. Enjoy the game. All right, you too, buddy. Luke Fox. Back in Florida. Back in fourth, he goes. He was our insider, brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit DonValleyNorthlexus.com. Certainly, I would hope there is more than just like an understanding or a hope from Marks of Art that he's not giving up an NHL paycheck just because he thinks that there might be an opening in Toronto. Like, you would think a guy who's coming to that agreement with the Flames that they're going to go their separate ways, and he's worked under Craig Barouba in St. Louis as his power play assistant that, yeah, he'd be coming to Toronto. Yeah. That happened, like, feels like a month ago. Can I give you my theory on the matter? Okay. He's just trying to sneak in as much golf while not employed by the Leafs as possible because it's like this second, because like, look, we, I'm not going to pretend to be as close as to savvy as other people who have worked in the building, but the few times I've worked with them, two of them, he has walked in carrying tailor-made drivers into the studio so the man loves his golf. So I do think also it's like you just don't want to hear like, oh, on the links, but like, you know, people are the worst than that regard. Yeah, they're not great. They're not. So that's my pet theory on this is that the contract is in a drawer somewhere and he will put pen to paper once he no longer gets beaked about golfing. So I mean, he's going to give up July and August for golf in September, like, I don't know, maybe the Leafs go Lulee Morello with this. How many times does Lulee Morello sign to free agent that we all knew he signed three months ago in September? It's happened before. That's true. That's if our boy Savi ends up a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs coaching staff. All right. When we come back, Blue Jays trying to get back to 500, the Reds aren't we able to do so and more. So they beat the New York Yankees on the strength of nine stolen bases yesterday. We'll talk to Joe Sittle-Nax, the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, sports net 590, the fan. Diving deep into leaps, Raptors, Jays and NFL, the JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning show sports net 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning. So what a difference a year makes for Dalton Varsho in particular. Like all questions now are race is having a good, if not great season, but pretty close to the guy he was in 2022 in Arizona for the Blue Jays acquired him. And last season, his numbers across the board were down because he was horrible at home, just like awful, awful, no good at Roger Center in the first year of the renovations. That's all over with. After that Grand Slam yesterday, Dalton Varsho at Roger Center this season with an OPS of 835, his sixth home run at Roger Center. And it was much needed for the Blue Jays to escape with the series victory over the Cleveland Guardian seven, six as they get set to welcome the Boston Red Sox to town tonight. Let's talk to Joe Sittle, a Blue Jays central. How's it going, Joe? Good morning, guys. Morning Joe. So, yeah, Dalton Varsho, obviously a huge part of any success the Blue Jays have had this season, but it's going to be up to the Buffalo boys. It feels like as Addison Barger, the latest to join David Schneider and Spencer Horowitz and those, those two guys, Horowitz and Schneider at the top of the lineup, Barger not asked to hit that high up this lineup. But how much is this team relying on three guys, two of which were not even in the majors to start the season? It's amazing where we are with this June 17th, if we had a discussion during spring training in late March, and you told me this was going to be the Blue Jays lineup and a final game of the series against Cleveland trying to beat the first-paced Guardians, I would have thought you're crazy, right? But here's where we're at. Nobody, I don't think we any of us, we're going to predict this. But when I say here's where we're at, Ben, it's like, I'm kind of, you know, I'm not a surfer, but I will ride the wave, and right now I think you have to do that with this offense, right? You've got to mix and match more, and yes, that might being Springer sitting a day and Barger and Wright, it might be being Turner sitting a day, and you know, goes out right now. But there is a vibe in this lineup right now that when that game ended, I thought to myself, this lineup was fun to watch today. When I was looking forward to the top of the lineup, turning over and seeing Corvitz come to a plate, I was looking forward when Barger put the ball in play to watch him run the bases. There's just a lot of excitement. I'm still a big David Schneider fan. I like the fact that when he's in the lineup, every time he steps to the plate, something could happen, and I'm all eyes. I'm watching it. He's been going through it a little bit, scuffling a little bit here, and everybody drew a couple of walks yesterday, but they just bring that something that this lineup needs. I mean, it's mid June. It's not the first of May anymore. So I think you got to somehow ride these guys and keeping the lineup especially, you know, obviously against right-handers, it changes against lefties with Barger and Horvitz, but against righties and Boston's got three righties going. I don't really care that Nick Pavetta uses his very good fastball with good ride at the top of the zone. I have David Schneider in my lineup, like not every pitcher hits every spot, and one of those fastballs might be middle and one of those fastballs could go into the Blue Jays bullpen with Schneider in the lineup. So that's just how I feel. I think, you know, it's going to be a day-to-day thing, but what we're seeing here is there's a good vibe. There's an excitement watching this lineup the last couple of days. Yeah, there certainly is. I mean, you win a series against a good ball club or great ball club, quite frankly, in the Guardians and how can the vibe not change? What do you think it does to the, and I guess this goes part and parcel to the feeling around the team or the vibe of it, but I also think it goes to the idea of accountability? What do you think it does to the clubhouse to see? And this isn't, you know, the team turning on George Springer, but saying, yeah, okay, you know what? Maybe it is his turn to sit down a day and we're going to get barter in it bad or, you know, I know, Springer and Horowitz aren't tied together, but these types of players are going to get more. What do you think it does to the, you know, internal competition that there does seem to be an accountability of if you deserve to play, you're going to play happening right now with this team. I understand early in the season, you're not always going to take that tact, baseball's a game of failure. You need to give a guy's time to find it, but it does seem like there's been a change in, in that regard. And I just wonder what that does to the kind of clubhouse dynamic as well. Well, you know what a clubhouse dynamic is when you go in after the game and the music's blaring because you just want a baseball game, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. Winning cures a lot of things, right? And as I said, with the lineup and the guys that have been there and look, there are several players in this game over the years that have had bad first halves of seasons and good second half. It can happen. I just, I think we all know, and I'm sure if you talk to George Springer, Justin Turner right now, we, and we've heard from them a little bit, they know where they're at. They know it's not going well. And they know that you've got these kids knocking on the door. And to me, it's everybody sees it. Is it the elephant in the room? Well, it is until you bring it up. I mean, that's just the way you have to play it, I think. And again, it doesn't mean every day like Turner and Springer are sitting and boasting this isn't going to keep happening. But I just, there are, there are times when I'm a big believer that if you hit you play and you kind of keep riding it, well, there are a couple of days there were earning Clement, had a couple of great days, a couple of doubles and he shipped the next day. Well, to me, I just, I reward that. I ride that because a good hitter or anybody that's in the big leagues is a good enough hitter. Now they may not be all stars, right? But when a hitter's rolling pretty good, I don't think it necessarily matters who's on the mound. Now, lefty, lefty match, it might be a difference for me, but other than that, it really matters who's on the mound. You're feeling good. You feel like whoever's on the mound, you're going to get that day. So you're riding. Now, I'd like to also say that I'm not saying that Ernie Clement and Spencer Horowitz and Addison Barger are going to carry this team to the playoffs, but the way they're playing right now, the bats, they're giving you right now, I ride it right now and it might change next week, we might have a different conversation because some of them, one of them, all three of them might be all for the next 17, like we'll see how it goes, but you kind of got to live in the moment, I think right now, if you're the Toronto Blue Jays because of where they're at. Now, I keep saying like where they're at, but you know, you guys, like me, you probably look at the standings every once in a while, it's crazy and majorly baseball down. And I talked about it on the broadcast yesterday. The way it is. I mean, there are a few good teams and then there's just a bunch of middle feeders, right? But you're still right in this thing and the ultimate goal, this is not going the way they thought, but the ultimate goal is to get to the playoffs. And right now you're staring at that third wild card and you know what that is? It's a chance. And I'm, you know, who knows how that'll go if they do make it, but you worry about that that your goals to get there. And right now, I think the best way to do that is to, as I say, right, ride some of these kids. Yeah. And then pin your hopes like as scary as it sounds on David Schneider and Spencer Horowitz and maybe to a lesser extent, Addison Barger, I think Horowitz and Schneider, I have a baseline of knowing what they are. They're at least league average offensive players, I think, right? Like, and they do different things. Maybe Schneider has a little bit more home run potential, but Spencer Horowitz is going to hit for a higher average, maybe get on base a little bit more. Addison Barger is a complete unknown to me because we have such a small sample of him at the major league level. We do with Horowitz as well, but I don't know. I just, I tend to think his skill set plays more in the major leagues. In the brief time that you've seen Addison Barger, what do you, what do you think of his offensive makeup? No, he does not. He's fun to watch in that regard. And I remember when he first came up, I saw him in spring tournament last year and then again this year and when he first came up this year and I was like, wow, that's, there's a lot going on there. And then you get to the big leagues there. I just, I just think it's so different in the big leagues now with, with the arms that are up here and I haven't watched triply baseball much, but, you know, we have this conversation. We were talking to Josh Naylor yesterday, I asked him that question because he made a comment about how, you know, the transition he's made getting to the big leagues over the years and he, he called it a three six. We have different it is and out at the stadiums, the pitching, the high powered arms, the way they go to the bullpen and they bring in those guys. So it's just so different up here. And that's what my first inkling marching bar to early on was that's a pretty violent swing. And I think my early returns, even just in this time is we saw him yesterday, you know, he's handling the fastball pretty well, but then they, they spun the ball a few times to him and it didn't look as good. So you'll have to, we'll see how he handles both the fastball and the off speed pitches, because I think he's going to see more of them just based on what we've seen other teams see that too. And, you know, I'm sure Nick Pavett will be spending that break in ball two interviews in the lineup tonight. We'll see how he handles it. Yeah. I wonder if you, you have a thought and, you know, I don't think, I don't think about this necessarily with Barger, but just talking about guys coming up from, from Triple A or Buffalo or the minor leagues in general is how do you think the, the players coming into the league now will kind of evolve or maybe you've seen a change already because I've heard some players talk about the understanding that these young players have of the strike zone just because of the challenge system and a truer understanding of what is a ball, what is a strike? Have you seen kind of a development from, because I mean, look, baseball is a game of change. It's constantly changing all the time, but do you think we're getting a newer, a newer type of young hitter because of the challenge system that's kind of come up and then maybe having a greater understanding of just what exactly the zone is? Well, yeah, I think Spencer Horwitz is the poster boy for that, right? And I remember last year I've talked to David Schneider about that and he's a smaller statured guy. And so in Triple A, he would take that pitch that was just, just high and it was a ball every time because of the system, right? But up here, it gets called sometimes and that was a tough adjustment for him. So I think what these hitters are doing, they're going to have to live through this adjustment right now to getting called up right now because the system isn't in the big leagues and then once it gets here, I think that will change. I think it was Danny Janton maybe went down on a rehab assignment last year. Yeah, I heard this from there was dancing. Yeah. He came back up and he's like, oh, yeah, it's like crazy. I mean, so many guys are walking because of the system and you just know that if you take this pitch, it's going to be called a ball. So yeah, that changes for sure. But I think the bigger thing to not just the ball strikes, but the system, but so many of the big arms are being pushed up to the big leagues fast. Now there are so many injuries at the big league level. So if you're in triple A and you're one of those big old arms that are throwing 98 with the splitter or nasty slot, you're in the big leagues like they're calling you up because of the need that's happening. So that doesn't mean that there aren't good arms in triple A, but it's just so different than so many years ago. And you know, we had guys like we had like 32 year old veteran guys with a few years of big league experience and triple A that could still really pitch. It was like that kind of a challenge that way, but now it's like everybody's throwing so hard. It's up in the game that a lot of those big arms are getting called to the big leagues sooner because of all the rash of injuries. And I mean, there are guys, we've seen them this last series, you see some 91s and 92s, I get it, but usually if you're 91s, 92s, there's something special about that like that Logan Allen, right? I mean, that wasn't just 91 right there that had a little giddy up on it that ride or whatever is they call it. And it's different. It's just, it's a lot harder up here, but for these young guys, it's transition time and then the system can. I think they're afraid to bring the system to big leagues because you might just have way too many walks and way to like, they've got to perfect this thing or make it a little bigger. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, maybe pitchers get forced more into the middle of the zone and offense goes up like it has in the international league. But yeah, nobody wants to see the return of four-hour games anymore. That's, that's enough. Yeah. Yeah, enough with that. Um, so Blue Jays have had their fair share of pitcher injuries this season. It hasn't necessarily come in the rotation outside of Alec Manoa, but I don't think anybody should have rightfully been counting on him to make 30 starts this season. So the rotation, that's part of the reason why some of those guys were required. Jose Barrios never spent a day on the IL. That's why he was given a seven-year extension. He's been healthy and Gossman started the year hurt, but it rushed himself back and kind of getting closer to the old Gossman, I suppose. But you know, the bullpen's been destroyed like at certain points this season, all four of their top four leverage guys have been hurt. Now three of the four are hurt as Chad Green's back, but it looks like Jimmy Garcia is going to go on the IL. Of course, Jordan Romano, Eric Swanson already there. I mean, who's the, who's the guy that needs to step up most in, in those three absences or now just like most recently, the Jimmy Garcia absence? Well, I think next up is Chad Green, right? I remember when they, when they signed him and even at the start and spring training this year, I remember talking about this on a couple of the broadcast and saying, I think Chad Green will save some games from Blue Jays this season and it, whether it's poor performance from others or injury, whatever the case may be, we're kind of growing accustomed to this game of baseball, aren't we, in 2024, like guys getting hurt, guys are going to get hurt, pitches are going to get hurt. It's just, it's happening everywhere and you know, for a team that's been relatively healthy and fortunate in that regard the last few years, it's, it's kind of getting them now. And to see Jimmy come out of that game, that's a tough one because he has been so, so good. You know, maybe not so much lately, but wow, what a first couple of months he had. So I think Chad Green's next up and like good thing when you, when you get a guy like that and sign him the way they did that you've got a guy with lots of experience back there. You know, you're, we've seen good from Zach Plop. We've also seen him have some struggles. We've seen them great from Nate Pearson. We've also seen him have some struggles. So maybe those are going to be opportunities for, you know, those big high flying guys, high powered guys out of the back end to really step up. Sometimes you get an opportunity to like that and you perform. So they'll probably get some chances too, he was piercing yesterday and he comes in and he gets the key out. So that's great. But there's, you know, I think the, the left side has been very interesting for me because we've seen kind of a lot of Brendan Little lately and he's been pretty good, right? He's just been sneaky good and, you know, he may have gotten the nod yesterday ahead of a Tim Mesa. So that could be, you know, Tim Mesa's obviously been an issue, he's been so darn good for this team, but it hasn't been that way this year and it started way back in spring training. He just hasn't been right. But when he got called up, you know, Dan and I again really alluded to this yesterday is that when he got called up, they knew who was coming. They knew they were seeing Milwaukee. They knew they were going to see Cleveland with all the lefties and now they've got Boston with some more with Devers and Duran. So I think Mr. Little has an opportunity to really perform against some of these lefties now too. Yeah. That's just kind of the nature of bullpen. The guys just in a season will emerge out of nowhere there, Joe. You know, I think with Little, they, they, they loved his arm, we saw his arm in spring training. It's like, wow, like it was 95, 96 with sync and it was really good, but then it was really tough to find the zone and a few times as John Schneider said, all we're asking a Brendan Little is to be in the zone because the stuff is just lots of movement. He's got the big sinking fast boys got the cutter and the curveball. It's great stuff. And of course you can probably say that a lot, but a lot of big league pitchers, but they got to hone it in and the running hones in and makes hitters actually hit the bollies and pretty darn good. So that can happen. It comes and goes. It's yeah. That's why bullpen there are so pickle right year to year. You know, a ton of major league relief pitchers that kind of do it year in and year out, right? And they're now with technology, they're tweaking things and whether it's the slow motion cameras or whatever they're using to tweak pitches or design pitches. It just seems like that's the way the game is right now. But you know, with the hitting to hitting environment is so down that you're just looking for guys that can come in and get any outs in their best slot right now. There are a couple lefties in a little pocket of three hitters. I think we're going to see a lot of Brendan Little the way he's pitching right now. Yeah, we are. Imagine if we see Red Sox on the bases tonight, we're going to see a lot of stolen base attempts. Had nine yesterday's ridiculous watching that. Yeah, that was outrageous. So I didn't realize maybe I'm not paying close enough attention, but I didn't really realize that Jose Trevino's arm was like that week. Yeah. And then I kind of went on to my little computer here and I was like, oh, yeah, it is. You know, he was a very good framer receiver. He's been very good behind the plate and I've heard so many good things about him behind the plate. But yeah, wow, I didn't know that. And I think the Red Sox exploited that in a hurry. And yeah, they'll do it. I mean, I think Janssen and Kirk can certainly hold their own back there. But so much of that is on the pitcher to give the catcher a chance. But I think part of that too is the Trevino's arm. It's just one of the weakest out of the weakest in all of baseball and they just totally took advantage of it. Yeah. Yankees have largely been able to overcome that by hitting a quadrillion home runs. That's why they lost and all they dropped to 50 and 24 devastating points. My best analysis on the weekend, I think, guys, was home runs are good. Yeah. Yeah. Homer are good. Yeah. It's bad when you give them up. It's good when you hit them. Yeah. And the Blue Jays did a good job of hitting them yesterday. Joe, always appreciate the time. Enjoy the game tonight. All right, guys. Have a great day, ticket. Yeah. You too. Joe Sittle, Blue Jays Central, Blue Jays Red Sox, first time, which is weird, this late in the season to be facing a divisional opponent for the first time this season tonight. I don't want to skim past what you just said, but I want to go back to what Joe said with that wonderful analysis. You know who else agrees? Kevin Gosman. He's like, God, that is so good. I don't like it. When the other guys do it, not a fan. Yeah. When my guys. We should do it. Yeah. We should. Yeah. I get it. The players are the most important thing, right? The players play the game. Yeah. Factually. Can't do it without players. It is not the X as it knows. It is, in fact, the gyms and Joe's. I mean, and we've done it stupidly in years, previous was like, you know what? I would take Brad Stevens like first before any player or like even Bill Belichick before any player. Right. And like, Oh, wait. Yeah. Take in hindsight. Yeah. It's never even in a sport like football where the coach has an outsized impact on literally every play. Yeah. Doesn't matter. You don't know the players. Doesn't matter. Hear me out. Dank Campbell though. Just doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. But they still do get paid, right? And there's obviously an impact that can be had there. And especially when you as an organization say that this is the number one reason there's going to be a difference. I'm talking about the Blue Jays and Ross Atkins and Marc Shapiro saying we're doing an internal accounting and there's we got a deep dive. This thing is to why our offense underperformed in 2023. You know what? Let's redo it. Offensive coordinator, totally different way we do business, evaluate these offensive players, give them feedback. This is a new day. It's been like one of the worst offensive seasons that just factually in the history of this franchise. You thought last year was bad. Who wouldn't sell their soul right now for the 2023 Blue Jays offense to emerge? Brace and D-Shinbox. He doesn't have one. Go ahead. I feel stupid for ever saying that the 2023 Blue Jays offense was a tough watch, okay? Goodness gracious, what a glorious offense the Blue Jays used to put on the field compared to this one. Now maybe everything's changed. The Buffalo boys have arrived, okay. But again, I think it's the players. I think like no amount of Don Mattingly is going to save George Springer from being a quadrillion years old or Justin Turner, same deal or Vladimir Griro Jr. being this forever. Right. Maybe Bulbashed. Okay. But if the organization is telling us that that's the reason to be optimistic about this team and they failed so spectacularly, I'm not one of those, well, fire the hitting coach people because again, it's up to the players, but then why have them? So they're telling us they're important. They're telling us Don Mattingly is responsible for the offense. It's not just been underwhelming, it's been abysmal. At what point are you not looking at Don Mattingly and saying, what exactly is it that you do here? Midseason hitting or sorry, sorry, not hitting coach. That would be rude. Little midseason offensive coordinator firing. That to me would feel and I don't, I don't think there was, not today there wasn't a time in place for it, but that would feel the most reshuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. To me, I suppose there would be people who would say, this is great. This is accountability, not good enough. You're the man in charge. You should wear it. I can't get, I can't sit here and tell you there's something wrong with that, but I am just such a believer that that's not the reason why this group is failing. The group is failing to this point because of the group in and of itself. So sure, make those changes. I'm not going to sit here and disagree with you, but if that was the change and it wasn't getting the Buffalo boys up here or even something like that, I would not want to hear it. Well, I mean, eventually you're going to run a run out of guys that are performing well enough of Buffalo to call them up like you're going to run out of guys to DFA, and you're not. Yeah. You're not. I don't think going to fire the manager after you just gave him an extension. You don't get to fire three managers. I guess nuts, crazy cuckoo bananas. But I mean the next lever must be done adding Lee, and I'm sorry. Yeah, the name, it carries weight. It does. And the fact that he's a former manager of the year in a 60 game season where he got an Olympic speed skater, a team that employed in the Olympic speed skater as a hitter into the playoffs. So like that's why he won manager of the year. Sorry, that that would be the shock to the system that I think people wanted with the potential of managerial firing or somebody thrown overboard. We've DFA now Daniel Volgobock, Cam Bijio cast overboard as well. All the Buffalo guys say for a Ralph as Martinez are up here is the next step, not done madingly walking out that door. Yeah. I think it's a fair thing. I think you could do it now that you tried the other things. But if the first thing was that, I would add a problem with it. All right. We're in Blue Jays line. They just want a series. Yeah. Maybe going to win another one. It's a Boston Red Sox. We'll be back tomorrow with another edition of the fan morning show, Ben Anis, friend gunning, sportsnet 590 fan. Good morning. You know, I wish we would have more hits like that. [MUSIC]
