What The Ale?
Keg #9: LGBTQIA+ Liberation Movements
ghosts, cryptids, murder, conspiracies, beer, what, the ale. Hello friends. Hello hello. Welcome to our June keg. I'm Elana Ray. And I'm Mama Jay. Um, and before we get into the topic, Mama, what are you drinking and do you have any what the ale moments? Um, I'm just having some water right now because I have to drive my kid to physical therapy this afternoon. Um, but my what the ale moment for today is that our air conditioning has been broken for a few days. Yeah. And the guy finally came about to fix it today. And it turned out that some decorations I had hung my kids door had fallen and apparently got sucked into the air conditioning motor. And you know, it's just like the kind of stringy, like ribony kind of, um, streamers kind of vibe that were hanging on the door. And you know, I noticed they weren't there, but I assumed my kid had taken them down and my kid assumed that I had taken them down. But it turned out they probably just fell and got sucked into our air conditioning unit. So that so the guy was trying to fix their conditioning. And all this time he starts pulling out like ribbons of blue and red foily stuff. And I was like, Oh, shit. Like I didn't realize that had happened. Wow. Well, at least it wasn't like something crazy. Like you had to replace the whole AC or something. But yeah, oh my gosh, it's so stupid. And like, I mean, you know, it's an expensive fix. But yeah, it's at least it's not the whole whole air conditioning. But yeah, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so stupid. Neither one of us even realized that they were like the decorations were missing. They had gotten sucked in. So I feel a little dot because I hung them up. So it's sort of my fault. But that's okay. It was an accident. Turns me of the time I made rice crispy treats at my at my partner's house and the marshmallow got stuck in the garbage disposal and broke the garbage disposal. Oh, wow. I didn't know that was a thing either. I didn't know that was a thing. Apparently we just didn't like run hot water long enough for it to get through the map of them. So it just got stuck. But we used some Drayno and eventually fixed, but it was so gnarly for a couple of time. But I'm thrilled to have the air conditioning back on because it's like 100 degrees and yeah, I'm your conditioning. Yeah, that's that's quite a tale. Yeah. So what about you, any with the ale or what are you drinking? I'm not drinking currently, but I am really excited. My friend who is like now my neighbor invited me over to have some wine after work. And so I'm going to go over and have some wine later. So I'm drinking water now to prepare for having one. But let's see. Oh, what the ale moment. I think one of my what the ale moments is that I feel like my summer plans are super duper busy. And so I've just been like trying to get my ducks in a row because it's like every two weeks from now until the end of August, I'm either traveling or someone is coming to visit me. And so yeah, wonderful. And I'm so excited to see everybody and spend lots of good quality time, but I'm also like every week I have to like host, which or host or you know, be doing travel things. So I think I'm really I've been stressing the relaxation this week at my house. Yeah, I was looking at my calendar and I was realizing I have back to back like lots of, you know, I mean, it's good stuff, you know, fun things and things I have to do. But yeah, lots of stuff back to back. So yeah, it's going to be a crazy busy summer and moving my kid to college. And yeah, it just feels like up until they leave, there's a million things on my schedule. Yeah, well, yeah, that's a crazy time. But you know what? It's going to be great. We're going to do lots of wonderful things. But yeah, anyway, are you ready to get into our topic? Yeah, I am. Cool. Do you want to introduce it or shall I? Oh, you can go ahead. All right, friends. So we decided since it's Pride Month, we wanted to talk about like important movements and things that brought about lots of LGBTQ rights and cool things like that and just kind of the history of them. So not necessarily unsolved mysteries or anything, but we thought it would be a good thing to talk about since it is Pride Month. So mama is going to cover Stonewall and all of the wonderful activism there. And as a result of that movement, and then I'm going to talk about the legalization of a gay marriage, butterily. So yeah, I think it'll be fun. Yeah, all right. So I guess I should start because Stonewall happened before gay marriage. So, okay, so Stonewall while riots occurred on June 28, 1969 at the Stonewall Inn in Greenwich Village, New York. And the Stonewall Inn was a mafia-run gay bar. It was located on Christopher Street, the Addresses 51 and 53 Christopher Street. And it was owned by the Genovese crime family. Previously it had been a restaurant and nightclub for straight people, but in 66 three members of the mafia invested and they turned Stonewall into a gay bar. And back then they would not give liquor licenses to bars that would cater to gay customers. So once a week, the mafia would pay off a police officer. And apparently that was that payoff was known as gay Ola, which I've never heard before. But yeah, so but it seemed like, you know, because the New York State Liquor Authority wouldn't give those licenses to people, it made it easy for people, the police would, you know, harass anybody that was like in queer spaces and it gave them an excuse to raid queer spaces because they could go after, well, you don't have a liquor license. So, you know, it seemed like just the decision not to give the liquor licenses to places that had gay customers was, you know, a way to control and to have an excuse to raid. So it was very intentional. Sounds like it. I mean, yeah, so but it was pretty common that, you know, the mafia would run these bars and they would pay off the cops and it just seemed like they saw it as an opportunity to capitalize on the situation because it wasn't like they were gay friendly or cared about these people or treated them nicely. I think they just like felt like they could water down the drinks and overcharge and, you know, they didn't have to like maintain the bar very well because, you know, the queer community just wanted a space that they could come and so they didn't have to like keep it up or do much. And so, you know, they probably made a lot more money than what it was costing them to run and the payoff, you know, made it worth it that, you know, if they're making enough money, it was fine to go ahead and pay the police. Right. So before we get into like what happened in 1969 at Stonewall, I just want to say a little bit about what was happening in the queer community and the years leading up to the Stonewall riot. So, I mean, American gay and lesbians in the 1950s and the 60s faced a legal system that was like extremely homophobic and discriminatory. There were anti gay groups that wanted to prove that gay people could assimilate into society and they favored non-confrontational education for homosexuals. And then during the 60s, like things in America were becoming much more contentious, but not just because of like the gay rights movement, but it just seemed like that there was a lot of marginalized people or even people that were just sort of anti-government, anti-establishment and they started to become more vocal. So you think about like the African American civil rights movement and there was like a growing counterculture and anti-war demonstrations happening. So there were all of these like very liberal, like different kinds of groups, but that we're wanting to come together to fight for equality because Greenwich Village is a like liberal area. People there were starting to fight back against all kinds of oppressions. So not just, you know, fighting for gay rights, but fighting for, you know, just equality in general. Okay. So and like I said, in the 50s and 60s, most gay people were not welcome into businesses. And so a lot of people had to stay closeted just to be safe or to be able to find employment or to be able to like go into a restaurant and get a meal. So a lot of people had to hide who they were. And then gay and gay men and lesbians were included in the list by the U.S. State Department. So anytime they found out who these people were, they put them on this list and that made these people susceptible to blackmail. Oh, wow. So like, would people from the government blackmail them or would it be like? Yeah. Yeah. So they would have them on the list and then they could use that to blackmail them. And then in 1950, a Senate investigation chaired by a client, a hoey noted in a report, quote, it is generally believed that those who engage in overt acts of perversion lack the emotional stability of normal persons. And he said all of the government intelligence agencies are in complete agreement that sex perverts and government constitute security risk. So because they said that gay people were, you know, didn't have emotional stability and were threats, they ended up between 47 and 50. There were 1700 federal government job applications that were denied because people were suspected of being gay. Oh, wow. And 4,380 people were discharged from the military. Wow. 420 people were fired from government jobs because it was suspected that they were homosexual. Wow. Well, that's just so sad. I mean, you know, nowadays at least we're protected for the most and for the most part, you know, getting a job or, you know, whatever. But it's so sad to think like, you could be super qualified for a job and you're just rejected because of something like you choose to love or who you love, you know, and that's one certain company still do try to get away with it. But there are protections now, but it usually requires, you know, filing complaints going to court doing all the things. So it still is a pain in the ass if you experience that kind of discrimination. But at least we do have protections now. Yeah, definitely. And then the FBI and the police often kept list of known homosexuals and who their friends and favorite establishments were. And then even the US Post Office kept track of addresses where material pertaining to homosexuality is mailed. So like, if people were getting like gay newsletters or magazines or invitations to, you know, meetings or protests or whatever, the US Post Office would track who was receiving those things. Wow, okay. Yeah. And so, yeah, so sometimes they would like like not give people their mail or, you know, they would just like do things to make it hard for people to know, you know, where these events were taking place so that they didn't have support or can participate. And then I really didn't want to say that in the 52 of the American Psychiatric Association listed homosexuality in the DSM as a mental disorder. Yep. And there is a large scale study of homosexuality in 1962. And it was used to justify the inclusion of the disorder as a supposed pathological hidden fear of the opposite sex caused by traumatic parent child relationships. So they were definitely trying to say, you know, being gay is a disorder and that there is a reason for it. And, you know, and it's out of trauma and all of that stuff, which is not true. No, no. Yeah, crazy. There was a psychologist Evelyn Hooker and in 1956, she performed a study that compared the happiness of well-adjusted self-identified homosexual men with heterosexual men and found no difference. And, you know, although her study like, you know, kind of shocked the medical community who like believed that it was some kind of, you know, real disorder. You know, but I really want to stress even though people like were like, Oh my gosh, this study proves something. Homosexuality remained in the DSM until 1974, one didn't they just take out trans, trans identities like in this most recent edition. So it's still, you know, yeah, yeah. So I mean, that's totally, yeah, totally a thing. Yeah. And, you know, in the 50s, there were two, you know, pretty major organizations that they formed independently of each other. But they were just trying to provide opportunities where people could socialize, you know, and feel safe and not be afraid to be arrested. So one of them was in Los Angeles and it was for gay, mostly gay men. And it was called the Medeschine Society. Okay. And their objectives were to like, you know, fight people, educate them, provide leaderships and then assist with legal troubles. Okay. And then they, because there was a lot of opposition, you know, and they don't want to be seen as radical, they decided that they should focus more on assimilation and being respectable. And so they thought they could change more minds if they showed that, you know, gay people were normal people and no different than heterosexuals. And so kind of just like, we need to like tampered down a little bit and not, you know, not be seen as a threat or not be seen as different, you know. And there were several women in San Francisco that, you know, they just didn't really feel like they had a place as women. And so they formed a group called Daughters of Villatas. So D.O.B. and it was eight women who created it. And they, again, wanted to have a safe place to come together to dance. And they develop some articles to the magazine and just urge their members to try to assimilate to society as much as they could. Okay. So, but again, a lot of that is about like making yourself smaller and not standing out. You know, it seems like it wasn't really about like being pride, you know, being prideful or being comfortable with who you are. Right. It sounds like they're being forced more into the closet if you're supposed to assimilate. Yeah. Yeah. And then there was, you know, there was other incidents of government oppression. So like in 1953, there was an organization named One Incorporated and they published a magazine and the postal service refused to mail the issue because it talked about homosexual people in heterosexual marriages. So like acknowledging that there are gay people that are in straight marriages because, you know, they're trying to like pass and do what they need to do to feel safe. Yeah. And I mean, you see that all the time, even nowadays. Yeah. Well, and I feel like especially my generation, you know, and older, I think, you know, I can't tell you how many friends I have that, you know, we're in straight marriages or living that life for a very long time and then came out as a lesbian or a gay person way later in life. Yeah. And a lot of that was about trying to, you know, do what they felt like they were supposed to do to fit in. Yeah. That magazine article was seen as obscene. Oh, wow. Even though it was just acknowledging that that was a thing that sometimes happens, you know, right. And then that even went to the Supreme Court and it was determined that they could mail their materials through the postal service. So that was a win for the gay community. But again, like we shouldn't have to fight about things like being able to send out articles about what we know is true. Well, and like to be completely honest, why is our male being like red? Like our male shouldn't have been in red anyway. That's crazy. Yeah. So you know, and then there, I mean, obviously, like, because the magazine and the DoB were kind of wanting to just like assimilate and, you know, just kind of not make waves, but still try to like create safe space to be together. They were kind of upset when other groups were starting to be a little more in your face and a little more assertive about, you know, gay rights and that kind of thing. And then because, you know, and this is something I think we've talked about a little bit before, but because they were really wanting to focus on gay rights, they even saw and the wording at the time was transvestites, but they saw them as a threat to like their own goals. And they saw them as like, you know, them being out and proud, you know, transgender people or drag queens or things like that. They saw that as, you know, they were kind of like, you know, gonna make people uncomfortable. And so it would disrupt their goals. And so they were not supportive of transsexuals, transvestites, transgender, whatever language we want to use. But back then it was transvestite was the primary use. And so, you know, they, I mean, and back then you could even just be arrested if you were wearing clothing of the opposite gender. So it was something where, you know, trying to be out and wearing clothing that you identified with. I mean, it really put your risk of just being arrested. And because of that, they were kind of distancing themselves. But obviously, the transgender community was really bothered by that saying like, we should all support each other. So it's just sad that that was going on back then. Yeah. And I mean, it is something that we see, unfortunately, in the community. And it's, I mean, I'm glad it's better now, but it is sad that that is how we treated trans folks. Yeah. Back then. And then getting back to New York, the mayor, Robert Wagner, Jr. This was in the 1960s, but he was concerned about the image of the city because in '64, the world's fair was coming to New York. And so he made like a campaign to rid New York, so he of all gay bars, because he just didn't want it to look bad for the world fair. So he revoked all the liquor licenses of all the bars and would place undercover police officers to try to entrap people. So usually they would just have an undercover officer that would like, you know, talk to a man in a bar or like in a public park or something like that. And if the conversation led to anything that was like flirty or Haiti, you want to get out of here and leave together that kind of thing, the officer or even if you like bought the officer a drink, they would arrest them for solicitation. Wow. I mean, I don't know. I've totally been in a bar and like, platonically, someone has bought me a drink before. So that is crazy to me. That like, you could get arrested for solicitation for buying a beer out of kindness. Well, and then there, I mean, but it was just, it was just entrapment, right? So there was one story in the New York Post that described him an arrest that happened in a gym locker room where the officer grabbed his crotch and moan. And the man just said, are you all right? And then he was arrested. So the man didn't respond to him sexually, didn't try to touch him, didn't try to do anything. And he's still got arrested just because the cop suspected him of being gay. Wow. And then they had a really hard time finding lawyers who would defend the cases. You know, and a lot of times, you know, some of those lawyers kick back their fees to their resting officer, but a lot of the people that were dealing with these things didn't have money for an attorney anyways, but they couldn't even find attorneys who are willing to fight for them. Um, so anyways, like all of that stuff is going on. So now I'm going to bring it back to Stonewall so we could talk about what Stonewall is and what happened there. But I just wanted to give us some background about, you know, what was the vibe happening in the US at the time? Yeah, totally. I think it helps like make the case for like why Stonewall was so important to well, and why people are so frustrated. Yeah. So Stonewall, what I'm going to use the word was because like it closed down the way it was and then we'll talk about it reopening. But Stonewall was a popular, um, just gay spot bar. And it was for people that were marginalized to a lot of the customers that came were homeless or just trying to find a safe space and community. Um, it was not a fancy place. And I really want to stress this is why I think it was like financially beneficial to the mafia because they didn't do much to keep it up. So it had no running water behind the bar. Oh, wow. So they take dirty glasses and run them through tubs of water and then reuse them. Um, there were no fire edits and the plumbing wasn't well maintained. So the toilets were, were frequently overrunning. And this bar, it was not known for like prostitution, but there were like drug sales and some other black market activities there. Um, and this was the only club. I didn't know this part. This was the only club in New York City at the time where dancing was allowed. Oh, really? Just not just like gay club, but club in general. Yeah, it was the only gay club where dancing was allowed. So that was one of its main draws was that you could come there and dance. Oh, okay. But like there were, there were street clubs is like, okay. So, um, so Stonewall kind of had a speaking, easy vibe back then. So patrons would be greeted by a bouncer and he would like check them out through a peep hole. And, um, so the, the drinking age at the time was 18, but, um, in order to like try to avoid letting undercover cops in the people that came would either have to be recognized by the doorman or would have to quote unquote look gay. So they were trying to be selective about who they let in to avoid letting police in. Okay. Um, and then they were trying to present themselves as a private bottle club. So when you came in, you had to sign a book to prove that you were a part of this club, but obviously a lot of people did not use their real name. Mm hmm. And then there were two dance floors in Stonewall. Um, the interior was black and so it was like painted black. So it was really dark inside and it had like the gel lights or black lights. And then if the police were spotted, they would immediately switch to white lights that would be turned on in the, in the darker lights and colorful lights would be turned off. And that would be cool to everyone to stop dancing or touching each other. Okay. Um, you know, because again, if the police saw that there was like gay activity happening, they could raid. Um, right totally. And then in the rear of the bar was a smaller room and that was frequented by the Queen. So it was one of two bars where, you know, more effeminate men could come and they could wear makeup or, you know, do their hair dress up. Um, and so, you know, only a few people that were, you know, in drag or in female clothing were allowed in by the bouncers because they needed to keep it, um, like small, you know, cause they don't want to draw a lot of attention. Mm hmm. And then the customers, they were 98% male, but there were some lesbians that would come. Um, and then, you know, the age of the clientele range between the upper teens and early thirties. And it was pretty diverse racially. Um, but it was primarily white, black and Hispanic patrons. Okay. Um, and then because of its mix of people, its location and the attraction of the dancing, the Stonewall Inn was known by many just as the gay bar in the city. So when people would talk about where we go on Saturday, they'd say we're going to the gay bar in the city. Hmm. That's cool. Yeah. So, um, police raids were super common in the sixties and like the tension between the police and the queer community was growing in that neighborhood particularly. Um, and you know, the queer people were really wanting to like, you know, honor who they aren't and embrace their sexuality. And, you know, but didn't want to have to deal with the fear of being arrested or being harmed physically. Mm hmm. So, you know, there was already a lot of tension and a lot of people that were becoming upset with all of the raids and the harassment because the police would also harass, you know, people that would just be on the street that appeared to be gay or definitely anybody that appeared to be transgender. Um, they would harass people that were doing sex work on the peers. So, um, you know, there was just like a lot of negative interactions between the police and the queer community. Right. So, at 1 20 a.m. on Saturday, June 28th, 1969, for undercover officers, two of them were men, two of them were women and are at the bar just to get visual com confirmation of what was happening and that there was like gay activity going on in the bar. And again, this was just people socializing, dancing, having a good time, like they weren't doing anything. I've seen they were just dancing together. Mm hmm. But they radioed to their colleague outside the bar, Detective Charles Smith and Inspector Seymour Pine. And then they called her back up. Mm hmm. And usually the employees would be tipped off the parade was going to happen, but they didn't receive any warning that night and there was approximately 200 people in the bar. So, people started to run for the doors and the windows in the bathroom, but police barred the doors. Mm hmm. And then I guess the normal raid procedure was that they would line patrons up and check their ID. And then if there were people dressed in women's clothing, then female police officers would take those people to the bathroom to verify their sex. And if they would be transgender, they would be arrested. Wow. Yeah. On the night of the Stonewall riot, there was a trans woman who refused to go to the bathroom with the officer. And then the men in line started to refuse to produce their identification. Mm hmm. But the police decided to just take everybody to the police station. And but they did separate those people that were like in femme attire into a room in the back of the bar. Mm hmm. And, you know, and then some of the some of the lesbians that were there were complaining because, you know, when they were frisking them, they were filling them up inappropriately. And so they started speaking back about that. And so this the discomfort spread quickly throughout and everybody became heightened because, you know, these women are kind of being assaulted. Yeah. Under the guise of we're frisking you. But they were clearly doing more than that. Wow. Yeah. And so, you know, the police, you know, normally they would transport all the bars, alcohol into patrol wagons. And I guess a lot of it, the, I didn't know this, but I mean, it makes sense when you think like prohibition and stuff. But a lot of these bars would have like a hidden compartment, like under the bar, like in the floor and stuff where they can hide bottles of alcohol. So the police would get some of it, but not all of it so they could reopen quickly. Makes sense. Yeah. So there was 28 cases of beer and 19 bottles of hard liquor that were seized. But the patrol wagons had not arrived yet. And so those that were not arrested were just released to the front door, but they didn't leave quickly like they normally would and said they just like, you know, the crowd grew outside and they were just like waiting to see what would happen. And again, usually people would just get the hell out. But there was just something different about this night or people were like, no, we're not going to run. We're not going to be afraid. Right. And so then the police started like forcefully pushing or kicking some of the patrons out of the bar and the customers being released. You know, they just seem like they were the police were like, I don't know, just being a little more forceful than they needed to be. And so, you know, people were getting really bothered by that and upset. And then the first patrol wagon arrived and and Inspector Pine said that the crowd, most of them were homosexual men had grown by that time to at least 10 times the number of people that they were planning to arrest and they all became very quiet. And so he saw that as like something's happening that's not normal. Wow. And they started to escort the mafia members to the first wagon and the bystanders were all cheering because, you know, they, I mean, the mafia opened these clubs to them, but they didn't treat them well. You know, they weren't, it was not night. You know, this, I don't know, they were not nice places and they knew they were being overcharged and all of that. So the bystander started shouting gay power and somebody started singing, we shall overcome. So there was some like humor, but also some like hostile feelings happening. And then there was an officer who shoved a person who is in drag. And he responded by hitting him in the head with his purse. Hmm. Okay. So then the cop clubbed the person in drag over the head and the crowd started to boo. Wow. Okay. Again, everybody became more restless and angry. And then they started like throwing things. So they were throwing things like pennies and then beer bottles. And they were thrown at the wagon. And then there was rumors that people that were still inside the bar were being beaten by the police. And then there was a scuffle that broke out because a woman who was in handcuffs was escorted from the door of the bar to the where the patty wagon was. And she escaped and fought like the police and, you know, was like, you know, like swearing and shouting, but she was kind of like a butch lesbian. And she got hit over the head, you know, with a baton by one of the officers. Mm hmm. And she was just been complaining that her handcuffs were too tight. And that's how he responded. Wow. Um, I mean, I don't know if you've heard of her, but the woman's name was Stormi de la Vere. Oh, yeah. Her name before. Yeah. And so, um, so, but she yelled at the bystanders and said, Why don't you guys do something when the police were beating her? Um, and then they, you know, the police officer picked her up and threw her in the wagon and then the crowd became a little more violent and started fighting back. Mm hmm. So I mean, the crowd overturned one police wagon. They slashed some tires. Um, you know, they were, they were throwing, you know, they were throwing bricks. They were throwing garbage and garbage cans. Um, they were throwing bottles. Um, and then the, uh, someone in the crowd was like yelling that the place was rated because the mafia didn't pay off the cops. And then somebody else yelled, let's pay them off. And so then they started throwing coins at the cops. Wow. Um, so yeah, it just like, you know, it got, it became very violent. The police were outnumbered by somewhere between 500 and 600 people. Oh my goodness. And there was an activist folk singer named Dan Van Roink, who was there. And I just thought this was a fun fact because my dad's a fan, but he was the mentor of Bob Dylan. Oh, cool. You know, and he had, he was just at a bar a couple, um, doors down and he was not gay, but he had experienced police violence. And so he, during like anti-war demonstrations. And so, um, a quote from him was, as far as I was concerned, anybody who's stemmed against the cops was all right with me. And that's why I stayed. Oh, every time you turn around, the cops were pulling some outrage or another. And so, you know, there were even people that were not gay. They weren't there, but they started participating because they were just, everybody was done with police, trading them any kind of way. Yeah. I mean, I think that's awesome that people were banding together, you know. Yeah. So it just seemed like everybody like felt like they had had enough of the shit and just weren't going to take it anymore. Um, I know I mentioned before that, um, you know, Martha P Johnson was there at some point. Um, and, you know, but by the time she got there, um, you know, there were garbage cans on fire, some people said that the mob was the one that lift, lift the garbage can on fire. Um, and, and, but it was said that one of the garbage cans that was on fire was, um, pushed through one of the broken windows and that that's what started, started the fire at so long. Other people say that the police lit the fire that happened in the building. Oh, okay. Um, and demonstrators did break through the windows and a lot of the windows were like covered with plywood, uh, to deter the police from raiding the place. And so, um, yeah. So there was just like a lot of chaos going on. Um, there was someone that sported lighter, lighter food onto the bar floor. Um, and then the police took aim at him. And, you know, so the whole thing lasted about 45 minutes. Mm hmm. Uh, and so, you know, but it was just, I don't know, it was very bad. You know, there was just like a lot going on. And so I want to get a little bit into like what were some of the things that happened after. Okay. Um, you know, because obviously most of us know that this was the thing that started, um, pride, you know, movements and activities. So, um, so let me see. Um, oh, I wanted to say too, because, um, you know, Sylvia, uh, was also there. You know, Marsha's best friend was also there. And, um, there were other people, um, in the early morning hours, there was a woman named Zazu Nova and Jackie Hormona, which I think is the fun name. Mm hmm. And they were three that were, you know, um, transgender women that were like really on the front lines and pushing back against the police. Um, and so yeah, so all of them were there too. Yeah. Now, by about four and the streets have been cleared. And, um, a lot of people were just like sitting out there, like what the hell just happened. And, um, there was like some people that saw it as like the aftermath was kind of beautiful because they caught, you know, they finally has stood up for themselves. Mm hmm. Um, and then, um, within like the days that followed, there was a lot more activity, like putting information out there so that there were leaflets and press coverage. And there was some more violence after this, you know, because there would be, I mean, obviously the police were upset that people were fighting back. So they were continuing to harass and, and, you know, act that way. Um, and, you know, so one of the leaflets that was put out was get the mafia and the cops out of gay bars. Um, the leaflets called for gay people to start their own establishments and to boycott Stonewall and other mafia owned bars. And then there was, you know, public pressure for the mayor's office to investigate that whole situation. So the fact that these bars were mafia run, the fact that, you know, um, the police were taking these handouts, whatever. Um, so there was a lot of public pressure that things were done. Hmm. Okay. Now, as I mentioned before, there were some that did not see this revolt as a positive thing. And so a lot of the older gay people and members of the Mattachine Society, you know, because they really tried to act like we are just the same as everybody else. And like, you know, we're not threatening and all of that. So they saw the displays of violence and the effeminate behavior as embarrassing. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then there was a man named Randy Wicker who marched in the first gay picket lines before the White House in 1965. And he said, quote, screaming queens, forming course lines and kicking went against everything that I wanted people to think about homosexuals that we are a bunch of drag queens in the village acting disorderly and tacky and cheap. Wow. And I just wanted to share that quote because I do feel like, you know, I know I said it only didn't, you know, Martha, Marcia's case, but you know, I do feel like there was like a lot of that even when we were talking gay marriage, which I know you're going to get into. But like where, you know, if you were more effeminate or you were in drag or things like that, it was like, Hey, don't mess with our rights. You know, don't do anything that's going to disrupt us. And you know, I know I said it before, but we all need to be lifting each other up and it's we're all in the same fight. So. Yeah, no, there's definitely I feel like there's a lot of strong opinions about the correct way to be out and proud. And you know, there shouldn't be one, one size fits all options. Yeah. And then the village voice ran reports of the riots and they used a lot of unflattering terms, which I'm not going to repeat here, but they made a lot of nice comments. And I'm just ended, I'm just ended on Christopher Street and threatened to burn down the office of the village boys. Wow. Time it was headquarters. It's headquarters was like, there were several buildings around and including Stonewall Inn and other writers from the newspaper. I mean, they were just like, you know, they realized they needed to be more careful about what they were doing or how they were describing things to. And so then they put something out that said, the word is out, Christopher Street has shall be liberated. And then it says the Ephsler have had it with oppression. Wow. All right. Yeah. So. So, you know, I mean, obviously, like, all the different groups started to try to do things that were in their own interest. So the Masheen Society performed its annual picket in front of Independence Hall in Philadelphia and called the annual, the annual reminder, all of the people that were involved in that participated for several years in like different picket lines and things like that and marches. But, you know, even though the Masheen Society had existed since the 50s, a lot of their methods seem too mild for people now. And so even though they thought they had the power and they were like, you know, you guys need to like quiet down on a lot of people are like, no, you guys need to step it up. And so, you know, they try to have like it that what they called an amicable and sweet candlelight vigil demonstration. And somebody in the audience shouted, sweet bullshit. And so then they started like saying, oh, we need to be loud. We need to be proud. Within six months of the riots, activists started a city-wide newspaper called Gay. And the village voice refused to print the word gay in, you know, in its articles or advertisements, even that the magazine had paid for. They would not have the word gay in it. And then two other newspapers were initiated within a six week period. One of them was called come out and the other was gay power. And I think it's really cool. They were like, okay, village voice, you're not gonna like support our, you know, our efforts, then we'll create our own magazines and, you know, newspapers and things like that. And so, the readership of those three periodicals quickly climbed to between 20 and 25,000 readers. Oh, wow, that's awesome. Yeah. And then police raids did not stop after the Sonal riots like that continued to happen. You know, even though there was a lot of public pressure for that to stop. And then on June 28th, 1970, they had their first New York City Pride March on Christopher Street Liberation Day, which was something that they had decided was going to be a day that they were gonna hold as a special day. Yeah. And so people gathered on Christopher Street and simultaneously in Los Angeles and Chicago, there were other Pride marches happening to commemorate this event. Even though that was not coordinated, they just wanted to have a Christopher Street Liberation Day. And then the next year, gay Pride marches took place in Boston, Dallas, Milwaukee, London, Paris, West Berlin, and Stockholm. Wow. Yeah. And then by 1972, the parkers participating cities included Atlanta Buffalo Detroit, Washington, D.C., Miami, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, and San Francisco. And I mean, obviously, since then, now almost every major city has a gay Pride March an event. Yeah. So a lot has changed. And then there was a man and he was somebody that was like, like, he was an organizer of gay activism in the 50s. And he was a part of the Mattachine Society. So he was trying to convince people, you know, that weren't, you know, gay people are no different. And we have to like tamper ourselves down or whatever. But, but I think, you know, he later was quoted as saying by the time of Stonewall, we had 50 to 60 gay groups in the country a year later, there was at least 1500. Right? Which 50 to 1500, that's a lot of groups. And then by two years later, to the extent that account could be made, it was 2500. And so, you know, he was even acknowledging that, like, as we're being a little more assertive, like, you know, it is moving, you know, our goal and our movement forward. So he was finally recognizing that that should be a thing. Mm hmm. That's awesome that, like, there was a bit of a acknowledgement there. Yeah. And then I know I said it during Marsha's episode, but Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson established the Street Transvestite Action Revolutionary Star Organization, you know, where they helped people have community and housing and and a lot of their support went to black and Latino communities and other places where people were being marginalized and trans youth that needed shelter. And then there was the TAT, which was the Transvestites and Transsexuals. And then another group called Queens Liberation Front. And so all of those came to be after Stonewall, which is really important that we had more groups that were doing good work to support people. Mm hmm. Yeah. And then, you know, there was still a lot of like, um, particularly, well, it went both ways, but there were women too that were seen as like, if, if the women were dressing to masculine. Um, it was seen as like, you were trying to, I don't know, make yourself more male to feel powerful and like them, feminist kind of, um, activists were like, we need to like embrace our femininity and not try to be more masculine as a way to feel strong, like we need to feel strong ourselves. Right. And so there was a little bit of a divide with like, butch lesbians and then people who wanted to just be a part of a feminist movement. And again, stop fighting with each other. Like, let's all find ways to lift each other up. Yeah, there's no one right there to be a woman. Yeah. Um, yeah. And so, but this was really, um, there was a one woman, and this was one of the women that were part of the, um, the group in San Francisco, Barbara Giddings. Hmm. And there was also a feminist activist, Jean O'Leary. And they said that they perceived cross dressing drag queens as mocking women. And so during a speech, um, O'Leary, she was claiming that drag queens made fun of women for entertainment value and profit. And so Sylvia Rivera and, um, another activist, Lee Brewster jumped on the stage and shouted, quote, you go to bars because of what drag queens did for you. And these bitches tell us to quit being ourselves. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. I mean, it, yeah, it's crazy to me when people don't like realize their history or like the reason why they're allowed, like not like they're allowed to exist. Everyone is fair and violent to exist. But like, yeah, like queer spaces don't, don't exist in the magnitude they do, or they do exist in the magnitude they do because of the amazing work of like trans women and drag queens. And I feel like there's like not a lot of at least, um, completely, there wasn't a lot of recognition of that. Yeah. And O'Leary worked, um, in the early 70s to exclude transgender people from gay rights issues because she felt that the transgender rights would be too difficult to attain. But O'Leary was later quoted to say that she regretted her stance against the drag queens. And she said, quote, looking back, I find this so embarrassing because my views have changed so much since then. I would never pick on a transvestite now. It was horrible. How could I work to exclude transvestites? And at the same time, criticize the feminists who were doing their best work in those days to exclude lesbians. So she did come around. And we need everybody else to come around to. Yeah. I mean, and it's okay for people to learn and grow, you know, as long as you know, they acknowledge and recognize that they've learned and grown, you know. And then I wanted to share too, but in the 1970s, um, the American Psychiatric Society or Association, um, did have a conference about behavior modification. And during the film, they demonstrated using electric shop therapy to decrease same sex attraction. And Boris Kite, who was a GFL member, um, but he was in the audience. He started yelling torture and barbarism. And, um, they took over the microphone to like talk about, you know, that this feels like you're torturing gay people and like people need to be accepted as who they are and all of that. So, um, you know, that was like one of the first times that people were confronting, like trying to do any kind of conversion therapies or things like that. Mm hmm. Um, and then it was in 1973 that the APA unanimously decided to remove homosexuality from the DSM. Um, and they say that was totally to do with the grassroots effort of gay men. Mm hmm. Um, and then I guess in 1979, the National March on Washington for lesbian and gay rights, um, was time to coincide with the 10th anniversary of Stonewall. Mm hmm. So, you know, I really want to stress even though all of the reading I've done says Stonewall is not the first time that people fought back, but there was just something different about this event that it lit a fire under everybody to do something different. So, I mean, there was definitely resistance before there were definitely things happening before where people were taking a stand, but there was something about this event that sparked something. Yeah. I mean, definitely everyone knows the, everyone knows about Stonewall, right? Like everyone. So. And then, um, there was a contemporary analog that Stonewall was a lot like Rosa Perks's refusal to move to the back of the bus in Montgomery, Alabama. And that sparked the civil rights movement, you know, and within months after Stonewall, radical gay liberation groups and newsletter spring up in cities all over America and all over the world. And in college campuses across America and, you know, Northern Europe. And so, you know, we really want to stress, we're not saying it's like, this is the first time any of this happened, but it definitely sparked something that had like major and far reaching influence. Mm hmm. Um, well, with Rosa, you know, we know that was a huge organized effort for Claudia and all of that, but it was definitely, it started the best, it started so many big things that, you know, it had a huge impact. Yeah, and she was the face of it, but you know, as a teenager that did it first. So yeah, Claudette Colburn, she was 15. So yeah, it's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, and then, you know, they made, um, you know, and I think it's important to remember that, you know, there are a lot of traditionally marginalized people that cannot hide, you know, so if you're a different cultural group, you speak a different language or you have a different skin tone or, you know, things like that, you know, you can't hide that you're a part of a marginalized group. Yeah. But, um, you know, but so they would say that, like, you know, to be gay, yeah, you're marginalized, but you can be invisible if you want to be. But the whole point is like, we don't want to be invisible. Like, we don't want to have to hide who we are. Yeah. Like, why do you, like, why do, why do, why do we have to hide? You know, that's way. And then, um, I just wanted to say, you know, for all my bisexual friends, it was in the middle of the 1990s that we decided to include bisexuals as a represented group within the gay community. And they sought to be included on the platform in 1993, on the March for Washington, for lesbian, gay and bi equal rights and liberation. And then trans people asked to be included at that time, but they were not. Um, because again, people saw the trans community as a threat to gay, you know, rights efforts. Um, and so, and there was also like a lot of bad attitudes about non-binary gender. Um, and there's a lot of discrimination around that impact sexuality. So there was a lot of conflict in the 90s. Um, in 1994, New York City celebrated Stonewall 25 with a march that went past the United Nations headquarters in the central part. Um, and people, the estimates are that there was like over 1 million people there. Oh, wow. That's a big, that's a big. And I want to stress badass Sylvia Rivera, like led her own separate march in New York City in 1940, 1994, to protest the exclusion of transgender people from the events. That's awesome. I love that she was like, okay, you're not gonna include me. We're gonna do our own thing. And, um, yeah, and obviously now, I mean, you know, LGBT pride plus pride events have like grown so much and they're almost in every city. Yeah. Um, and then there is in a President Obama declared in June 2009, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender pride month, officially citing the riots as the reason to commit, um, to use this month to commit to achieving equal justice under the law for LGBT Americans. Um, and I know people because some people, you know, Barack Obama at first was like not very supportive of the gay community, but I think when he did this, you know, again, maybe it was like he learned and grew and did better. Yeah. So I'm getting him credit for that. Um, and then the two years later, the Stonewall and served as a rallying point for celebrations after New York State Senate voted a passing sex marriage. This act was signed into law by Andrew Cuomo in June 24, 2011. Yep. Um, and then Obama actually referenced stone, the Stonewall riots in a call for full equality during his second inaugural address. And, uh, you know, he talked about, you know, that our journey for equality is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law. Um, and this was a historic moment because it was the first time that a president mentioned gay rights or the word gay and an inaugural dress, which I thought that was cool. That was really cool. Um, and then throughout June 2019, Stonewall 50 and World Pride New York City, 2019, they produced Heritage Pride and partnership with Isle of New York, took place in New York to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Stonewall uprising. The final estimate included five million visitors, and it was the largest LGBTQ plus celebration in the history. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then, um, oh, in 2018, 49 years after the uprising, Stonewall day was announced as a current commemoration day by Pride Live. And they were a social advocacy and community engagement organization. Um, in 1999, the U.S. Department of the Interior included Christopher Street and the Stonewall Inn under the national register of historic places. So it is a protected place now. Yep. Um, and there is a, um, the Assistant Secretary of the Department of the Interior, John Berry said, quote, "Let it forever be remembered that here on the spot men and women stood proud, they stood fast so that we may be who we are, we may work where we will, we will live, where we choose, and we will love whom our heart desires." Which I think is nice. Yeah, that's a good one. Um, and then President Obama also established the Stonewall National Monument, and, um, which is administered by the National Park Service. And, um, and we have been there. There's a lovely park. They have, you know, the plaque and all of that. And, um, they even have like a ranger station and interpretive services for the monument that you should be completed by the end of this year. So they're even expanding it right now. That's awesome, which I think is a tiny little square, but I'm glad that they're accessible for all. Yeah, it's kind of more of a triangle, I think. But yeah, it's a tiny little area. But yeah, so when you're all out there celebrating Pride this month, know that Stonewall was not the only thing that, you know, got us going on Pride kind of events, but we commemorate it and celebrate in June because of the Stonewall uprising. Yep. Yeah, very cool. All right. Mine is not as long as yours, so that's good. Thanks for hanging with us, friends. Um, but I wanted to talk about, you know, kind of how gay marriage was like fully and federally recognized, um, here in the U.S. And so, um, I'm actually going to tell like a little bit of a love story and it's, it's kind of a sad love story, but it's important. Um, so there was a woman named Edie Windsor. She was born in 1929 in Philadelphia. She became aware of her queerness in the 1950s. However, out of, you know, self-preservation and wanting to protect herself, she married a man out of fear and it happened to be a friend of her brothers. So it was someone she knew and trusted. Um, but she actually, after a little bit, you know, kind of came out to the husband and made it known like she wants to pursue romantic connections with women. And they actually parted amicably, like it didn't seem like he punished her at all. Um, but she didn't feel like she would find a lot of support in Philadelphia. So she actually ended up moving to New York to find other queer folks. Um, and a main like issue for her was that she found the bar scene in New York, like far too rough because the police were raiding bars constantly, as you mentioned. Um, but she ended up moving to the West Village or Greenwich Village. Um, and she met the Aspire, who was a psychologist and a violinist. So she had her PhD and like was a very accomplished musician. Um, and they, you know, in the 60s, that's so badass. Um, but, you know, so they fell in love. Um, the couple became engaged in 1967 when Thea proposed to ED with a diamond pin instead of a ring because a ring would raise too many questions. Um, and at the time they just kind of were like living their life and their relationship. Like, you know, they were like clearly together. People who knew knew they were together, but they weren't like out and proud and out here, like doing a whole bunch of activism things. Um, but in 1969, the couple went on a trip to Italy. And when they returned, it was the morning after the Stonewall riots. So they arrived and people were, you know, cheering and, you know, sitting outside Stonewall and like, clearly something had happened. And I think kind of a fire was kind of lit under them to be a bit more present in the community. And so at that point, like, they both started volunteering at a lot of, you know, different LGBTQ organizations participating in protest, that type of thing. Um, and kind of tragically, um, Thea was later diagnosed with MS. Um, and Edie became like a really accomplished computer scientist. Um, and she worked for IBM, but eventually had to leave IBM, um, as Edie's, um, health, uh, condition got worse. Um, it really is. I have a friend whose mom has MS and it's, it's really sad. Um, that's really hard. Yeah. Um, but throughout the AIDS epidemic, Edie volunteered with many gay rights orgs to support, um, you know, folks who had HIV and AIDS. Um, and like I said, she had, her and Thea had really kept like a pretty low profile as a couple. Um, but in the 90s, they decided that their long engagement needed to end. So they were able to legally register as domestic partners in New York. Um, and then in 2007, they traveled to Canada to legally marry, um, once Thea's condition became terminal. So Thea passed away in 2009. And of course she left her entire estate. But you have to think about that, right? Like the idea of, you know, when the diagnosis becomes terminal, you know, you have to leave to celebrate your loving, get married, you know, before your person passes. I mean, it's just so sad to want to have to, you know, want to do that, but you have to like go somewhere else. Yeah. Well, and the fact that they were literally engaged for like 40 years, I mean, it's so sad. Yeah, I'm glad they were able to do that, but it's so sad that, you know, they had to jump through hoops to get that then. Yeah. Um, but so sadly, you know, Thea passed away in 2009 left her entire estate to ED. Um, but there were some issues with ED kind of inheriting everything because in 1996, Congress had passed the Defense of Marriage Act, which defined marriage for all federal purposes as between a man and a woman. So even though she was legally married in Canada, and she had been in a domestic partnership in New York, legally, ED was denied the benefit of a tax exemption versus surviving spouses, which resulted in a $300,000 tax bill. Holy shit. Yeah. And so in 2010, at the age of 81, ED was like, talk this and decided to appeal the decision. Yeah. Um, so, you know, she started out in civil court, you know, just trying to do things with a New York and then actually, um, after like she had two smaller like court victories, the case was moved to the Supreme Court and through her activism and her pushing back, they declared the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional, marking the first time that the court recognized same sex marriage. So this was in 2010. Um, well, good job for her to fight back and her age and just being like, I live my whole life with this woman. You're gonna, you're gonna give me what's right. Like, I don't understand that. Like if you were a caretaker for someone, you lived with them for 40 years, you were with them, you supported them, you did everything to be penalized because you were the same gender is insane to me. I'm glad she fought. Um, and what this meant was that queer couples could now file joint tax returns. They got access to, um, VA and Social Security benefits and they were able to hold on to their homes when spouses passed away. Um, and foreign spouses were able to get green cards legally in the US. So it was like a huge deal. Um, and it, um, and like I said, it also caused the court to overturn same sex marriage or what am I saying? It caused the court to overturn cases that denied same sex marriages in 17 states and laid the ground, uh, for some of the other massive same sex marriage advocacy, which I'm going to get into momentarily. Um, but I did want to say Edie, um, and 2013 was recognized as the grand marshal of the New York City Pride Parade and was up to be times person of the year, but she unfortunately lost out to Pope Francis. Oh no, I would have rooted for her too. I like Pope Francis too, but you know, I'm not a Catholic so I would have rooted for her. Yeah, me too. It was his first year as Pope though. So I know it's like hard. Um, but, um, you know, after all of this, she started foundations and, um, scholarship funds and things like that to support LGBTQ rights. Um, and she passed away in 2017. Um, but I just kind of wanted to talk about her because she really kind of lit the fire to, to legalize gay marriage here in the US. Um, but I wanted to talk about, um, Obergefell versus Hodges, which is really the big case that most people know about. Um, which starts out kind of similarly to Edie and, um, you know, Thea's story, which is James Obergefell and John Arthur James were married in Maryland, um, legally, but they lived in Ohio. And so, you know, they moved back to Ohio and a few months after, unfortunately, Arthur had passed away from a terminal illness. And, um, before Arthur's death, they had filed a lawsuit with the Ohio government, um, to kind of be able to, you know, have him get spousal support and whatever after Arthur passed. Um, but unfortunately, the Ohio legislature refused to acknowledge the couple was married. Um, and the Obergefell was his spouse. And so, again, like you just got married, your partner dies a few months later, and then you're already kind of thrown in this legal battle. It's just so terrible. But again, good for him for being empowered to do so. Um, but in July 19th, 2013, they filed the case and three days later, Judge Timothy Black ran to her to temporary restraining order, requiring the state to recognize their marriage on Arthur's death certificate. So at least there was a small one there. Um, in September of that year, they filed for actually two additional couples who had the same situation in Ohio, which kind of started the movement more. Um, and in December of 2013, the same judge from before Judge Black ruled that Ohio's refusal to acknowledge same-sex marriage and other states where it was legal was unconstitutional. So, he also put in a provision that prohibited the state from enforcing the ban on appeals. Um, which is awesome because they were like not like same-sex couples, even appeal decisions. Um, which again is it to me seems completely unconstitutional. I am really glad that they were able to do that. Yeah, I'm not a lawyer or anything, but that sounds unconstitutional to me. Yeah, exactly. So then the following year, Obergefell was like, okay, we had like some ones in Ohio, but like there are other states that have this issue. And so he filed a writ of search-searchy O'Reilly. If I said that wrong, I'm sorry to all law people with the Supreme Court, um, essentially challenging the 14th Amendment's constitutionality. Um, and the Supreme Court agreed to hear the case in January of 2015. And the two main issues were that, um, challenged whether the 14th Amendment required a state to, to license a marriage between two people of the same-sex and whether the 14th Amendment required the state to recognize a marriage between two people of the same-sex when their marriage was licensed and performed out of state. Um, because that, you know, obviously his issue was we got married in a state where it was legal, live in a state where it's illegal, that should still be fair. Um, and so, yeah, so they were going to argue this case. And in April of that year, the case was heard. And, um, officially, on June 26th of 2015, the Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment requires all states to license marriages between same-sex couples and to recognize all marriages that were performed out of state. So that is really huge for gay marriage. That's a huge win. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Um, and like to me, you know, I think I've, I've been watching a lot of, um, queer activism TV recently, but something I think a lot of people say is like a lot of people after gay marriage was one stopped advocating, but there's still so much activism people need to do. Um, and so much, so many things, especially with the drag bans, um, and bans on trans healthcare and things. And so, while we do have some really amazing wins and some amazing rights right now, um, it's important to still, you know, call your, call your senators and advocate as much as you can. Um, but yeah, that's all I got for you. Well, I was going to say and hopefully some of these wins will set a precedent that can be our unit and other kinds of cases. I mean, a lot of times they'll go, well, if that is the precedent, then that would also apply here. So, you know, I really hope that, you know, there's like a snowball effect when we have these wins that will impact other people in the community or other situations. So. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's really important too. Yeah, just kind of know, know what, what has been one in the past and what we're still fighting for. So, yeah. But anyway, um, that's all I got on that. Okay. Um, anyway, friends, thanks for sticking with us. I know this is a bit of a departure from what we normally do. We just thought it was important to talk about. Um, but if you want to follow us on Instagram, you could see so at what the ill pod, we also have, um, a Gmail, you can send us messages with story ideas or, um, if you have your listeners stories, you want to share with us anything like that. That would be awesome. And, um, outside of that, we have a Patreon you can follow. If you just go to Patreon and look up with the ill podcast, we will pop up. Um, and outside of that, I just want to say I appreciate your mama. And we appreciate you friends. Happy Pride. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]