(upbeat music) (dramatic music) - Welcome to a special Friday edition of "Wallowing in the Shallows," the podcast that skirts the perilous drop off of a deep dive into television and movies. We are academic nerds aspiring to become TV and movie geeks. There are no spoiler guards in the shallows, so listen at your own risk. This week, join us for a while out in the alkalite season one. (upbeat music) - Hey, hello peeps. Welcome to "Wallowing in the Shallows." This is Tori. - And this is Rebecca. And today we are talking about the alkalite season one, episode three, Destiny. - I had laugh when I saw the title. (laughs) After we did the whole thing in our last episode, it's gonna be black and blue. - Uh-huh, uh-huh. So did I, no slash, just the same word, but maybe the reason it's gonna be interesting to see if they go back to it after. Maybe it's because this word is right for both sides. - Yeah, well, and the twins were together. - Well, also true. - Also true. - So I guess that's kind of where my brain went. - Yes, okay. - But they were the twins were together, so we only have one word title. - Okay, okay. I can go with that. - Yeah, but it is. - Destiny also could be destined for this, destined for that, you know. - Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. - So it definitely applies to both of them at this point. - So a couple of things that I just wanna throw out. - Okay. - Haven't realized, but when we recorded last week because of all of the wig and facial hair, that Torbin played Tomin, the actor, played Tomin from Game of Thrones, picked Tomin from. - No way. - Yes, yes. - Whoa. - Yeah, yeah, it was a little bit easier to see this episode because he wasn't aged up or whatever, but I still wouldn't have recognized him with now hearing that. - Oh, I didn't catch that at all. - I didn't catch that at all. - And I didn't watch the show, but certainly heard about it. Did you ever watch Squid games? - I did not. - Okay, well, apparently, Soul was in Squid games, which was in, that was not in English, you know. - Right. - And it was so popular, right? It really caught fire, but I was just kinda like, I don't need to see a bunch of people die and in a game to format. So I just was not drawn in, but I was almost drawn in just because of how many people were talking about it. It was just everywhere. So I think that's part of the Western fame draw was that he was in Squid games. - Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking the woman that played mother, I, oh gosh, I forgot the name. - Anisea. - Anisea, thank you. I thought she looked familiar to me, so I looked her up and I didn't recognize, I mean, I recognized the names of the things she was in, but I know I hadn't seen them. And then I saw she was married to Joshua Jackson. - I don't know who that is. - You do know who that is. - Oh, okay. - He played Peter on Fringe. - Okay. - That I do know who he is. - And so I think I've seen a picture of them together. - Okay. - Because I was looking up something about Peter Jackson. (laughing) - Hold on, hold on, hold on a guy. - Joshua Jackson. - I do know who Peter Jackson is. (laughing) - But anyways, I think that's why she looked familiar to me 'cause I'd seen a picture of her and her husband together. - I thought she did a great job. - Oh yeah, so at the end of last episode, you were kind of like, yeah, you know, it's fine, but I'm not really sucked in yet. Any change after this episode? - Well, I thought this was a good episode, but I'm still not attached to anybody. So I, I mean, I'll of course watch the next episode because I don't think we don't have all the answers yet. I'm still kind of suspicious about the Jedi's role in all of that. - Oh no, and we are, we've got to break that down. We've got to break that down completely as we're going through here because this is clearly, we have not seen everything. - Oh no. - And I think there are some breadcrumbs, but I'm beginning to believe that none of them really had the complete picture. I'm not even sure the Jedi completely. - No. - Yeah, yeah. - We'll just, we'll just see, but I think there's a lot of miscommunication, infusion to go around here. - I would agree with that. I would agree with that. Yeah, so I thought it was a good episode, but again, I'm not, I mean, I've read books that I thought were decent books, but I wasn't, if I can't get attached to a character, it's less for me. You know, it's just not as, I wouldn't go back and watch it again, or I wouldn't go back and read that book again if I don't have a connection to the character. And so I still don't have that, but I did think it was a good episode. And I found some connections with some other stuff that is from the animation, so. - Oh, okay. - I don't think when I mentioned it, you'll be like, "Uh, don't know what she's talking about." But I'm sure our listeners will appreciate it. - Perhaps, I guess we'll see. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay. Okay, well, let's dig in. So Brendak looks incredibly idyllic 16 years ago. - Yeah, it was a little bit, well, maybe just the yellow Bantu trees, that was called Bunta, I think that's what it was. It was a little bit avatar-y for me. - And the little flying thing? - Yes. - Yes. - Yeah, sort of neon-ish colored. - Yeah. - Agreed. - And I thought it was weird that there was just like the one, the one Bantu tree, which was like a neon yellow willow tree. And one bug, we saw one bug. Or a bug, I'll buy you his lonesome. - That is, what did you see? - You know, they're kind of painting me as maybe a little sadistic and has totally drunk the Kool-Aid. I don't know, do you think she was going to hurt the insect or was she just trying to control the insect? - Oh, I think she was gonna kill it. I was like, "Yeah, we have our budding sociopath here." - Yeah, I think so too. I mean, I think we're seeing some sort of grim elements to her. I don't think they're quite as grim as were led to believe by the end of the episode, because I have definite thoughts about the fire. But that insect thing was a little disturbing. Anything else you wanna say about the bug scene? - So that poison they used on, that the may used on turban came from that tree? - Exactly, exactly. - Right on. - All right, so ascension. - Yes. - I was trying to remember what other sci-fi shows. - Could it be Stargate the series? Did that one scientist ascend? - Yes. - And sort of became the, you know, all knowing beings or whatever. - Yeah, but then he didn't like it and he came back. - Yeah, I didn't like being ascended. Yeah, it was Stargate, SG-1. - Right, the television series, yeah, yeah. - Yes, yeah. But it's, ascension seems like kind of common in sci-fi. And I don't know if I've really read enough to be able to say that, but it seems like it, but it was probably just SG-1 that I was remembering it from. - Oh. - Other than role. - I do know another one, but I don't want to tell you. - Oh boy, probably from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but okay, okay. - Yeah, so, and then we get new characters. Mother Corville, or Corill? - Corill. - Corill is what I have down, K-O-R-I-L. - Corill, and then Mother Hana Seiya. I'll try to remember that. - And we see that soul, that soul, soul, soul, saw the girls. - Yes. - So, we know that souls keeping an eye out, which is absolutely what none of the mothers want, none of the couple wants. - Right, right. - We don't want these kids knowing at all. And cats out of the bag. - For sure. - So, were you at all surprised at the sheer defense looking of this fortress? - They were living in, so this coven has sort of lead common society here and set up their own place, which I understand building it for protection, but they're like at this place that I don't think that they really think people are gonna find them. And it's just built, I mean, I just kept referring to it as a volcano fortress. It looked like a fortress and it looked like a volcano. - Yeah, this is what I have in my notes. - That is a big fucking fortress. - There we go. It felt, it felt overkill to me. I wondered if they took over an existing outpost somewhere. I mean, the capability to kind of build this thing, I felt like they must have found it more than started this spot from scratch. - Which I think is part of what happened in the disaster. - Well, I mean, it seems like they're in touch with some pretty dark magic, dark side of the forest stuff. So, I mean, I guess it wouldn't surprise me if they could have magic to bunch of that stuff. - Now, could you tell me what parts you feel are dark? (gentle music) - Well, I think for me, when oral and Anisea are talking after they send the girls to their room. - Yes. - And is it after they sent the girls to their room? - Well, when they're alone together. - Yes, when they're alone together. - And I'm just gonna call her mama that if I say mama, it's just mother Anisea. - I've been calling her mama a, so. - Oh, okay, okay, oh, I just call her mama. Okay, so she asks coral about the Jedi, right? And as they were talking, I started wondering if we're getting a little bit of origin story for the Knight Sisters that we see in the Clone Wars, animated series. - Okay. - So, remember last week I was talking about Ventress? - Yes. - Ventress is one of the Knight Sisters. - Okay. - So, they have, there's some of the stuff that was being said and done made me think Knight Sisters, even though they're clearly not the Knight Sisters, because it seems like most of them die. But it did make me start thinking about that. And then when they're arguing and corals like, "I carried them." Yes, and mama's like, "I made them." I was like, "Did she pull a Anakin' kind of thing here?" You know, and is this an immaculate conception? Did she magic the twins into being or what? And then it was reading something. Wasn't looking for this, particularly, but evidently in Marvel's Darth Vader comics, it is explained that Emperor Palpatine used the dark side of the Force to create Anakin. 'Cause remember his mother said that he didn't have a father? - Yes. - And so now I'm wondering, "Did mama do the same thing?" But I was already thinking that she had tapped into something dark, because corals like the Jedi wouldn't have liked that. - But the Jedi don't like, there's quite a bit the Jedi don't like. - True. - I felt more that this was a maligned and oppressed group of powerful women. And I felt like it wasn't so much. Now I'm with you on how did they create these twins, but also what was the motivation, right? In sort of continuing their lineage and their group. I'm not gonna call them shining beacons of good, but I'm not ready to cast them as evil. I think they are a group that has been wronged, right? I think that there is suspicion about them and all this sort of stuff. And they are powerful, they're clearly powerful and that's threatening. But they are also, they've run away, right? They're not trying to take over, well, maybe the future is they wanna take over something, but it seems like they're just, they're trying to live their lives and do their thing. And I wouldn't blame them if they have some, I don't wanna call revenge plans, but some kind of retaliation for how they've been treated and how they've been ostracized. So that I find their group complicated. And I'm just not ready to say that the way they use the magic is dark. I'm gonna call it more of like a battle, you know, like a little bit, a human, a very human use of the worst, I guess. Well, you know me, I'm just gonna look dark side first. Well, understandable, understandable, but I had a lot of empathy for this group. And I also, though I don't feel it, I understand the biological imperative to procreate and given that they were all women, you know, maybe there was a little fiddling done there at first. I was like somebody, the first thing that I looked at when I saw these women was like, oh my God, somebody got raped, you know. So I was actually really glad that wasn't it. I'm gonna, it was more of an agency move. Was it all there? I thought there was a guy in there, or at least one. I did not see a guy, but I would, I would certainly be ready to stand corrected. I'd have to look at it again, but I think, you know, when they were doing Tai Chi right before the Ascension Ceremony started, I thought I saw a guy. But I could agree. Oh, well, that would be a huge oversight on my part. This would kind of blow my theory because I thought this was a coven of women. I thought they were all women, sisters doing it for themselves. And that I also was layering on with their being ostracized and hunted and chased away or whatever. I was like, just because he's women are empowered and strong. Now you're maligning them, you know, so... Well, I could be totally wrong. I just, I thought I saw, but I did not go back and double check. But I did... They're just non-binary, you know. Maybe they'll take me. I did note, right, that they're persecuted. And I made a note to the effect that, I guess it doesn't matter where you are in the universe, which is are gonna be persecuted. Then I was, all of a sudden, which finder thou shalt not commit adultery? Pulsifer came to mind. (laughs) I was like, I wonder what's the equivalent? Yeah, I was thinking, are they gonna have an equivalent to that? But anyway, yeah, I always kind of have the dark interpretation first and you're much more optimistic. Well, that all being said, my new theory is that it's a surviving witch that is actually that master pull in the strings. I've moved away from it being one of the Jedi. I think that somebody survived my bets on coral and I think it's her. And I would understand that they robbed her of her entire world and killed the one she loved and all this sort of stuff. So given at the 16 years ago, I'm sensing humanity from this coven of women. But I am, my belief is that one of them is the stranger guy, the stranger. The Sith Lord. The Sith Lord. I don't have a theory on why they haven't been like so yet, but that, you know, she could have, all she needed to do was get one off of somebody, you know? Yeah, so. Well, I mean, all they have to do is find a Kyber crystal and they can build a lightsaber. And, okay. So we're almost getting to the part where, did you clock the, right after the twins were sort of going, there was the training and the mom was able to push back one person and then two people and then they kind of heard a sound. Yes. And then coral like went into this big control room, which I think is where the showdown at the very end is with the two girls. And there was sort of this blue, staticky stuff going on that looked like not all was well with the fortress's inner writings. Right, right. Yes. I think that's Kyber crystal related, that power. There was that little blue fizzly fizzle that looked a lot like a lightsaber blue to me. And it's not the only time in the episode where we see that blue. Oh, that might explain more why the Jedi would have shown up. Maybe, huh, huh. So at the very least, I don't know if I'm jumping toward the crystal thing, but at the very least, not all is well with this fortress. That, that staticky blue light flashing looked like electrical fire waiting to happen to me. Yeah. Now whether there was sabotage or it's a technology that they don't completely understand and it got out of control, I don't know. But I feel like that was a huge card show to see that lickory flicker there toward the beginning. That might, oh, that kind of fits in with your idea that maybe they just took over this place. Yes. And they were able to kind of somehow get the power thing to work, but don't really understand how it works. Yes. Hmm, possibly. You've got, this is my, I've got a whole, very doubt that I've got an entire head cannon with that thing and I have very little pieces to support it. But I'll hold on to those threads. Yeah, you know, I was wondering how may survive that fall off that bridge, but if coral survived, that makes a little bit more sense that she might have been the one that saved May? Yes, I think that's quite possible. I tried, I went back and watched, it was tough. I did not see her among the dead group we did see and it seemed like Mama A did die because we're, she's actually identified by OSHA and that would actually fuel my theory even more because I do believe that coral and Anastasia, I mean, I think coral would be devastated to have Mama A die. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so I don't think it's Mama A, that's the stranger. I think that she sadly is actually dead. I'm not gonna. You're not, you don't, you're not ready to say that. Well, I'm not ready to say that, no. Okay. But you're not alone. I think a lot of people online, at least than the one quick article I read, there are other people saying that coral is the, is the Sith Lord, but there are also other people from last, like, you know, last week that we're saying, Yord. Yeah. And then they got a name for themselves now, the Yord horde. I've heard of this. I've heard of this. I didn't know that the Yord horde all thought he was the Sith Lord. I thought they were just kind of big fans of Yord, but you're saying that the Yord horde all is subscribed to this theory. Well, that's what this article I read made it sound like, but that could be totally erroneous as well. Okay. Okay. But it's really interesting. I'm hoping that the next episode, it's probably going to bring us back to the present and not tell us what else is going on in Bryndock, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did think that the little girl playing May did a really good job. She looked, she scared me. Like when they're getting ready to do the Ascension ritual, and she has got this look on her face, and I'm just like, "Man, that is a scary child." And I would be running in another direction if I saw her coming to her. So she hats off to her. She did a really, really, really, really great job. She scared the hell out of me. And the one playing OSHA, the little girl playing OSHA, and they're real twins in real life, I thought she did a really great job of portraying her weariness and her fear of May at times. And I was like, "Man, to be scared of your sibling like that, that would be tough." And especially your twin. And I also understood the Herbal identity thing, right? Like I don't want to do the stuff you do. Yes, I thought OSHA's reaction was more about identity. And I don't want the same things you do. I have my, I want, I want to be me. I don't like our little I am you, you are me. I want to be me. So that is more what I felt about OSHA than fear. But I can certainly understand. I mean, she seems to be ready to burn her alive. So fear would be warranted. But I was picking up more on the, oh, I've been a twin all my life, and this is sort of an insular little place, and my sister's better at it than I am. I want to go somewhere and make my own mark. Yeah, it could be. Which could explain why she couldn't force pull what the hell pimp to her. You know when that ship was crashing? Yeah. Because I think you commented on it last week. Like, gosh, you couldn't even pull that. So yeah, I mean, that could totally be. And it probably felt really good to her to have Seoul saying, you are special. Yes, and now as we're talking, and I'm saying that, I'm wondering, because it did seem at first, right? But he was just interested in OSHA. And then he kind of throws in almost at the last minute. The other sister too. And I'm wondering if something will find out in the future is that OSHA has contributed something to the whole situation, because she was seeing the whole Jedi thing as hers, like something that could be just hers, and she didn't want to share it with me. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. That's a really nebulous thought in my head at the moment. I would certainly think she wouldn't have liked it if they jumped into it wholeheartedly. I don't know that May gave her any indication that she would have done so, but I do think there was a real autonomy play. Though I must say, this whole Jedi thing is really kind of terrible. They just take these little, they take these little babes out of their mother's arms and take them off to Coruscant to never feel again. I don't know. I'm not real keen on it. I remember thinking hypocrisy much when Inara is like, the Jedi are concerned that the coven is training children. I'm like, "Hello?" Yeah. (laughs) Isn't that what the Jedi do or constantly taking kids and training them? I mean, I would think that many parents would want to hide this fact because it means they lose their child. Yeah. So, Jedi are not looking good here. Now, something like the Mandalorian situation, right? Soundling, whatever. Parents have died, blah, blah, blah. Okay, that's different. Giving a family to someone who doesn't have a family, but seriously, just okay, this kid has got this characteristic. So, yep, he's ours now. Yeah. Essentially, in Inara, I should stop calling her Kirian. Inara is like, you can't deny that the Jedi have the right and I'm like, to take the children. You can't tweet to these women who've been ostracized by society and have tried to find their place outside of society, and now you're still coming for their kids. Can't they be a little bit P.O.? Yeah, I'm really feeling for these sisters. (laughs) (laughs) If they turn out to be all bad, that's gonna be a bit of a bummer. But no, yeah, I was feeling what they were putting, and again, I'm not saying that they are all goodness and light, but I feel like their actions are understandable given their oppression. Yeah, I mean, and I'm thinking about this, I mean, I have not seen everything that Star Wars has put out series-wise, like animation and so forth. And of course, I haven't read the comics, haven't read the books, but it's always kind of a portrait that it seems like parents are happy to give their kids up because they've got the Force, their Force wielders, and the Jedi are good, and but this scene made me think, like, wow, what the fuck Jedi? Yeah, yeah. You'd think there should at least be a consent required. Well, Kirian does say that. And Dara, I just should give it up. I'm just gonna keep saying Kirian. I mean, she does say at some point, right? Like, it's with your consent. But the whole thing is so freaking colonial. I mean, and that's always, I mean, you always can see the colonial overtones in Star Wars, but yeah, I mean, the whole thing. And when Mama's talking about, you know, it's about power and who's allowed to use it. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so true. Yeah. And the beautiful parallel, which I loved that they gave to Mama A, was she listened to OSHA? And even though it went against every fiber of her being, she was gonna support OSHA in her desire. Yeah. And so that's a real parent, right? I know she's still a child, but I know that she knows her mind on this and I'm not just gonna rob her of this agency. Right. So I just loved that about Mama A. And just thought, this is a good mom, right? This is a good mom. And I think the Jedi bristle every hair on the back of her neck, you know, because they're part of the, they're part of the patriarchy. That they are. And I know we see a lot with soul as well, that soul really seems to care too, but it's just matter. This is the girl's mom. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, we start, we see the beginning of the attachment between OSHA and soul here. And it's like, Yoda would not be happy with this attachment. Right. Right. And what? I'm jumping, I don't wanna jump ahead just yet. So I won't. Okay. Where are we here? I have a question about the ascension. I have a couple of questions about the ascension. Okay, let's go there. Do we wanna do anything before that? Okay. Okay. So the ascension. Very key piece. May completes the process. Right. OSHA does not. And so I'm curious about what that really means. And then I've also got to say, who's the witch laughing maniacally? Through a snake pony. I was like, what, this is inappropriate? Does somebody got Tourette's in here? What's the situation going on? I was calling her Hyena witch. Yeah. I don't know. That was like, I was like, what? It was just so weird. It was real weird. Yes. Yeah. I was like, okay, doggy. Okay. So that's kind of an aside. I mean, that's sure sounded evil and devilish. I'll tell you that. But let's go back to the ascension point. So, you know, it seems like mom a call some sort of cosmic power or something. And then may get smirked. Right. And may wholeheartedly. I do blah blah blah, OSHA's like, I do. Yeah. And we do not see her. She does not get marked. Right. Was there some sort of... Mama A says you got to go through pain to come out the other side. Was this some sort of bestowing? I guess what I'm saying, does May somehow have some additional coven power since she completed this ritual and OSHA does not, has not. I don't know. Yeah. I do not know. Maybe that spiral marking helps to channel the power. That's the only thing I can think. Yes. Okay. Well, we shall see, but it certainly does seem quite significant that one of the twins completed it. One did not. Yeah. Well, maybe that's, again, helping to channel power, which would explain why May is so good at, you know. But we saw it even at the beginning, right? May was trying to do something with the bug and I'm sorry. OSHA was trying to do something with the bug and May came more naturally. And May defends OSHA, you know, she blocks the attack in front of OSHA. So May does seem to already, well, she seems to be succeeding more in the coven training than OSHA is. Maybe it's just because OSHA's half-hearted about it. I'm not saying OSHA doesn't have it in her, but May is clearly thriving. May is winning in the coven training. True, true. I mean, that's kind of undeniable. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what the spiral marking does for them. Okay. Except Markham is part of the coven. Okay. But maybe we'll find out. Maybe it does, it is more important than just that. We shall see. I'm sorry, this goes back a little bit and you alluded to this as well. I liked Mama A's description of the thread. And you know, it kind of reminded me of we have all these different religions with the same God, if you will, you know. And it just seemed like another interpretation of this sort of universal fact that was out there, this power or whatever. And it's just they have their own interpretation that I thought was pretty convincing. I liked the thread metaphor. Yeah, well, and it was really interesting. I hadn't really thought about even calling it the force, right? That's very militaristic. It's got some inherent violence behind it. Yes. Then, and so then you do have that light in the dark side. And yeah, and Mama A is talking about the thread connecting everything together. Yes. In a way that's not really as violent when you think about it as the force. So I was, I thought, wow, that's kind of cool. I hadn't thought about it that way. Okay, a little more to my theory of, I think it's coral, but one of the coven people being the stranger, I went back and watched the stranger's little speech from the end of episode one, does not mention the force, does not say the force, does not say thread either, but doesn't say either. So I just, I just want to say that. Mm-hmm. As we haven't had a nod tipped in a Jedi direction with that. Yeah, and I still don't get the whole, you know, you can't use a weapon kind of thing. Well, what's it? Or whatever. Okay, but interesting to me as well, and I think it even does point to a little bit, how does Mama A defend herself or attack with the thread when the one person comes after in the two people. There's no lightsaber, there's no weapon. She just uses the power of the thread to repel them or bind them away or something like that. She doesn't use a weapon. Right, right. Are we sure Mama's dead, Mama A? I'm not positive. I'm not positive. It fuels my coral theory because I think the anger and darkness of losing her would feel coral. But if it's not coral, if it's another one, you know, or if it's even Mama A herself, then I'd find that's fine. For a core, I think it adds credence to coral if she's dead, but I'm not married to that. Well, I mean, and we've seen so many, we've seen other characters, right? Turn to the dark side when they lose somebody important to them. So, oh, maybe it started way back then, I don't know. I guess when we also know that May doesn't even know who the stranger is, that coral feels a little more right to me than Mama A because I think Mama A would let her know. But why wouldn't coral? What would be the point of her keeping her identity from May? I think she's gone real dark. I think I think coral has gone real, real dark. (laughing) All right, well, it'll be interesting to see what happens. - And I think that she may even be disfigured from whatever happened, and that's why she-- - She has a mask on, maybe she doesn't want May to see her. She is, I'm not sure. I'm not sure, though, I don't know, maybe Mama A was burned, but it really seemed like all those, it seemed like there was a collapse in the building. I don't think anybody's been burned from this fire. - Yeah, that's what I thought, too, when I saw that, I'm like, "What, they're not all burned? I don't see any burned." - No, no, and when May, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. When OSHA is what? Brawling through the locked laundry chute, I'm not even sure what she's crawling through. But then there's like, she looks up into this vent where there's some light, and she hears the women scream in a big thud, I think the ceiling collapsed on them. I don't think the Jedi killed that group of women. Now, maybe they're responsible for the whole thing coming down, but I think that, I think that the place, there was a flaw and it got out of control, the timing's kind of crazy here, but, and that the ceiling collapsed and killed as a result. - Now, you went back and looked at that scene? - I did. Was there a lot of rubble around them? - Yes, there's rubble. And when OSHA's looking up and here's the scream, it's like the vent vibrates down. It's like something, it's like a bunch of stuff. It's like, there was a big crash. - Interresting, interresting. Because I was wondering, I mean, precipitous much, OSHA was up right at the same, at the right time? - That sucks. I agree with you on that, and I have a note to myself, what is OSHA doing there? And he's the only of the Jedi that we see at the party, if you know, but what the heck is he doing there? - Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I've come for your daughters. - Yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm thinking that another reason I might have attributed, you know, more darkness to the covenant is because coral looks like Darth Maul, it's just a different color. They're both, what are they? Oh, I wrote the name down of their Zab-Sibs symptoms. Zabrocks or Zabrocks, Zabrocks, Zabrocks. - That was not lost upon me. And maybe somewhat influenced me painting coral with the Sith brush. - Mm, yeah, that's easy enough to do. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons I was like, oh, look at that. Darth Maul's grandma or something there. - Mm-hmm, oh my God. - Wouldn't that be interesting? Wouldn't that be interesting? - Oh, that would be why I love it. I love it. I think it adds additional creams to the theory that I am trying to travel together here of coral as a stranger. - That's funny. Oh, gosh. I was kind of wondering how, I'm wondering if Ocean knew when she was MacGyvering her way out of their bedroom. - Uh-huh. - Going down that tunnel, if she knew was actually gonna come out and why was May there? Was she there trying to destroy that power source or what was going on? I was really confused about all that. - Yeah, one, what the heck is this locked orifice in their bedroom that goes to the control room? - Yeah. - I don't, I really, I don't get that at all. Why, why is it Fort Knox to get into this, into this, it seemed like a vent or not a garbage shoot because it didn't go down. I don't know, I do not know what that thing was. - Yeah, I don't either, it was weird. - Okay. Do we wanna talk about this incident? Do we wanna, do we wanna get there? What do we wanna do? - Yeah, let's do it, let's do it. - Okay, okay. So, do you have any idea what that little book that looked like a book of penance, penance like flag penance? - The triangular journal? - Yes. Do you know what that was? Was that what she was drawing in earlier in the episode? Okay, so this is something special to OSHA. That's sort of private to OSHA. Okay, so here's my thing. Now, of course, May does said, I'm gonna kill you, but locks, closes the door. I don't know how she's locked in, I don't understand that. But all we see May do is burn the dead. Is burn the book. - Right. - We do not see her drop the book. - Yep. - We do not see her drop the flamey thing off the wall, which seems like a real fire hazard right there anyway. We only see her burn the book. Was this some statement she was trying to make with just burning the book? And was she surprised by something? Because we do then see a shot outside the room. We hear a crash, a crash, which I think is the little fire thing hitting the floor, precipitating the big fire, but we do not see her drop it. Was she surprised by someone? Did someone else do something? I'm not sure. But all I am willing to blame May 4 at this point is burning a book. - Yeah, you know, when you see her start to burn the journal and then we cut into OSHA, and then we look back at the door, and I'm like, what the hell did she do to go from that little thing to this conflagration? - It was a conflagration is the only word. And guess what else we see? Some of that blue sparkle, sparkle, fire, whatever that we saw at the beginning as well. If you go back to that scene, it is the same blue sparking kind of to the right of the door on the inside that we saw at the beginning. So I think there's something electrical that happens here or crystal, whatever, I don't know, but it looked like the same blue flame. - Oh, I did not notice that. - Yeah, I went back to rewatch it. So I don't think that that whole, and there's not a better word than conflagration. Nice work, that's perfect. I do not see how this little journal in this moment of time, unless this entire place is a tinderbox, then if so, why do they have open flame in front of every door, right? - Yes, yeah. - So it just seems to be more firepower than May had at her command, other than perhaps using the thread somehow. - Yeah, that was confusing. So hopefully we'll get more explanation about that and we'll find out how May survived. And was she really alone at the bunta tree? Or was there somebody there with her? - Like, oral, or... - Because how the hell does she get off of that rock if she was a survivor? - This is an excellent, yes, because we know the Jedi have left, right? So I guess, okay, I didn't do a roll call. I think I'm making an assumption that all four Jedi are on the transport heading to Coruscant. Who did we see? We see soul. - Yeah. - We also saw Torbin, right? - Yeah, and Sandara. - Okay, so did we see Calleca? That's just the only other one. - That I cannot see for sure. - Okay, I should go back and check that. But my understanding was the Jedi are gone. - Right. - They think everybody's dead, or I don't know. I don't know what else they did, but I don't think they did quite as much. I think something was wrong with that fortress. And maybe somebody within sabotaged it, but something... - Hyena woman. - Yes, Hyena woman. Yeah, oh, she's... - Was she also the one who kind of yelled out that they're trying to take our children? And that got everybody kind of riled up. - I do remember that. - Interesting, we need more information about Hyena woman. We need more information about her. - Yeah, I'd have to go back and look at that again. - There is just no way. May would have had to be setting fires all over the place. I mean, that control room core center was just blowing up all over the place. - Yeah. - And I sure thought like I saw a whole lot more metal. I just don't know what all was flammable in this place unless it was a more systematic internal issue. And it certainly could not have been just that book. I can't even explain that for the fire that's right outside of OSHA's room. - Yeah. - And then to have it be all throughout the core of the entire volcano fortress. - Yeah. - Maybe we're finding out why the place was abandoned before the Covenant arrived. - Was that good for me? - I really need to go back and watch that episode again. Like I said, I only got to watch it once. But we're like, the hallways in that thing, weren't they, rock? - Or metal. I think it felt like an amalgam of like, I think it was built in a volcano. - Yeah, I couldn't even let me write about that. - I mean, do you know that scene that we see? So I felt like it was sort of like rock and metal combined. And you know, maybe the answer is that it was active. And it was actually the volcano blue, but it sure didn't look like that kind of flame and it didn't seem to be coming from below. It seemed to be coming from around the side. So I'm not really ascribing to that. - It was all, it was kind of weird, but they better, they better break any answer to the questions. - Yes, we do need, we do need answers. But I just, you know, this whole, they all died in the fire. - Yeah, I don't think so. - That's just, doesn't track. Place was falling apart, right? I mean, that ridge or whatever, that the two sisters were on either side of was like in half. - Yeah, yeah. - It didn't burn in half, I don't know. It was some serious devastation that occurred very quickly. - Yeah, I guess space fire. - Well, you know, the fire does weird things in the Star Wars universe because as we saw in episode, was it episode two? Episode one, episode one of the show that fire burns freely in space. - Hmm, yeah, that's quite a feat given no oxygen. - I saw so many people. Well, not so many, I watched our boys. - Oh, yes. - Adam's like, "Fire in space." - Yeah. - Suspect. - It is suspect, it's kind of funny. - There's one thing fire needs. (laughing) And it's not in space. - That is true. - Yeah, it's going to be interesting. So again, I like this story. I like this episode in particular. I thought it was good. I just really want to connect with a character and I haven't yet. - Yeah. Yeah, obviously I'm not sure I have totally connected with a character yet either, though I do really like, I do really like soul and I'm going to be devastated if he's actually evil. But I am into the story they are telling because secondary to me with character is plot. I do like a good plot and maybe I can forgive some lack of, and perhaps it's like what you said. Maybe it won't stick with me, but in the moment I can get into a good plot and I'm feeling some nice plot getting laid out here for us. - I wouldn't argue against that. - Okay. - No, gosh, I'm trying to remember I know there was something I was going to try to get into. I mentioned it early and then, but I think I covered it. I've said I was going to wait. I should actually finish sentences so people understand. (laughing) But I think we did 'cause it had to do with the whole incident. So I think I'm good. Do you have anything else that you wanted to say or? - No, I think that's going to do it. And boy, I've really gone out really far on this limb and we could find out at the beginning of the next episode that it's all a house card. (laughing) We say, we say quarrel's dead body. (laughing) No, that doesn't rule it out 'cause I think quarrel's the most likely, but I am, if I say more generally, I think one of the coven has survived and is the mentor here for me. Now, why may wouldn't know that, right? I mean, that is confusing because if this shortly thereafter happens after this fire, so it's not airtight. (laughing) But somebody had to know May was there. Somebody, somebody got May off BenDock. - Yes, somebody did. It's kind of funny. I was just sitting here thinking, I wonder if our predictions are going to be as good as they were for Loki. (laughing) - Oh dear. - Meaning really bad. (laughing) - Well, the odds are much better that we're wrong than we're right, but it's a fun ride along the way. - It is fun. It's probably, yeah, that's the fun of this stuff is to try to figure out what's going to happen. But it sounds like you've heard that there are some other people that think it might be coral then. - Yes. - Okay. - Yeah. - Okay. - I came up with it independently. - You did, yes, yes, yes. I read two short articles and that was it. I didn't even watch "Boss" or anything. - I got to watch "Boss" 'cause I want to see if they say anything about this blue, this blue flicker thing. Because it's not even like, you kind of expect with an electrical spark that'll be like yellow, you know? The blue, the blue, I don't know. - And the energy that, wasn't it purple that Mama A was putting in May's face? - She wielded from above. - Yeah, wasn't that purple energy? - It sure wasn't this blue I'm talking about that felt like light saber, light saber blue. - Yeah. - It's my only way to describe it. - Yeah, I probably watch it again right before I watch the next episode. - Yeah. - Yeah, keep an eye out, keep an eye out for the blue flame, keep an eye out for the scene when OSHA's going through the shaft and I believe we witness the death of that group. Check for the rubble and if you see coral amongst them. (laughing) You don't get a good look. Well, I don't have the best TV either, but I couldn't see a woman with horns coming out of her face. So. (laughing) - Right on. I'll have to take a closer look. - Okay. All right. Well? - Okay, all we gotta do now is say bye. - Thanks for listening, everybody. (beep) - All we gotta do? No. - Sorry. - Yeah. - I'm starting to crash. I ain't gonna be able to do it early today. (laughing) - I believe it. (dramatic music) - Wallowing in the shallows is created and produced by the both of us, edited by Mo. The soundtrack for the Wallowing in the Shallows, the Acolyte Season One, is Star Wars-style battle music by Luis Humenoid, available on Pixabay.com. You can send us feedback at whichtvpod@gmail.com. That's W-I-T-S-T-V-P-O-D at gmail.com. (dramatic music) (dramatic music) - Subscribe. - Then subscribe. - Then subscribe. - Then subscribe. - Subscribe. - Hit that subscribe button.
