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WOW: Alan Jackson Comes Out Swinging | 6.12.24 - The Grace Curley Show Hour 1
Today's podcast is brought to you by Howie's new book Paperboy. To order today, go to HowieCarShow.com and click on store. Live from the Aviva Trattaria studio, it's The Grace Curly Show. We've got to bring in a new voice, a young voice, a rising voice, Grace Curly. You can read Grace's work in the Boston Herald and the Spectator. Especially Grace, Grace Standup. Here's the millennial with the mic, Grace Curly. Hello everyone and welcome to The Grace Curly Show on this beautiful Wednesday afternoon. We thank you for joining us. We've got so many great guests and so many great segments coming your way. The Caron Read Trial continues today. I don't typically start with the Caron Read Trial. I like to keep that with some of the local segments later on in the show. If we're lucky enough to get Turtle Boy on, then we'll typically go to it. But there are days where it's out of my control. You've got a role with the sound that you got and this is unbelievable. For people who are just catching up here, Trooper Michael Proctor, the lead investigator in the Caron Read murder case. That is something that's very key to this, is that it would be one thing if you were watching him on the cross-examination and he was an underlink. He was just one of the guys in the group chat. This is the guy who's in charge of the whole damn thing. He is so dumb and so gross that it's hard for me to convey with words. That's why we're going to have him explain it for himself. But Trooper Michael Proctor is also known as Chip. Today we found out he's known as Bear. He's the man of many nicknames. It seems like that's a thing with the Stadys. They all have nicknames. I don't think there were Stadys, but the guys in his group, Doc and Bird and Chief. That was his high school friend, but the Stadys call each other. Yeah, they're all big on nicknames. He's on the stand today. He's being cross-examined by one of Caron Read's attorneys, Alan Jackson. I like both of her attorneys. I like Alan Jackson. I like United. I prefer Alan Jackson and I think it's the theater in me. I like a showman. I like somebody who's got a little bit of pizzazz. He's a lawyer. He's like a lawyer you'd see in a movie, which is very convenient because there's no doubt this is going to be made into several movies. I'm curious who would be playing Alan Jackson. Alan Jackson is cross-examining Michael Proctor and they're going through these text messages. Anyone who's been following this, even sporadically, even just once in a while, checking in and knows anything about Michael Proctor or anything about all these people from Canton that are involved in this, you won't be shocked to hear that things aren't going great for Trooper Proctor right now. Things could be going a lot better. And there's a few things I want to focus on and I talked about this with Turtle Boy yesterday, but something that blows my mind about all this is how it's the timeline of it. It's how quickly Trooper Proctor was on his phone, disseminating this information that's supposed to be confidential, that's supposed to be kept private, that's supposed to be top secret. He's sending it out to not only a group chat of his state Trooper buds and some of his superiors, but also as Jared pointed out, his high school friends, his group chat of his buddies. A bunch of morons in this group chat getting intimate details about this case while it's barely, it's hot off the presses. We're like 10, 15, 20 hours in and these people are getting updates. That is how little he cared about kind of the sanctity of the crime scene, the investigation. He was not concerned about the investigation being corrupted about his own relationships to the people in the case and how that compromised his integrity, and that was a conflict of interest. None of these things bothered him because 16 hours after this happens, he's sending it out like it's gossip that you heard about your friend from high school. Oh, so-and-so got divorced, did you hear? They're all just chitter chatting about it. They're just gabbing like girlfriends. Hey, yeah, that's so crazy. Oh, and then what? And then was he drunk? Oh, no, and then he-oh, and then they think she hit him? Wow, that's crazy. Is she hot? What does she look like? It's a gossip channel, and John O'Keefe has just died. A Boston cop was found dead on the lawn, and this guy's acting like he found out Brad and Angie broke up. Do you think Jen and Brad will end up getting back together? That's how much concern he has about the seriousness of the case. That's how seriously he takes his job, and then you add in the fact that he's just a pig. Like he's just really gross, a gross human being, but we'll get to all of that. But I want to start with some of these questions that Alan Jackson is asking to proctor. By the way, I've got Libby Emmons planned for one o'clock. I also have Mark Salinas, our legal beagle. He's going to be joining us in the two o'clock hour to break down this Karen Reed case. But we are going to talk about a lot of different things. But for this first hour, I'm keeping the lines open. I want people's take. And you know what else I keep thinking of, Jared? I keep thinking of the times where we talked about this, especially after Jen McCabe's testimony, and we got heat from people who were saying, "How dare you have Ontario blank? How dare you even believe this? It's so obvious that Karen reads, if it's so obvious that Karen Reed is guilty, why the hell do I feel like the third party culprit defense has taken over this thing? If Michael Proctor knew that Karen Reed was, she's bleeped as he put it. She's a whack job. She's a bleep. She's not going to skate on this. It's going to be cut and dry. All of these things are true, and if all of these people who called them my show and had issues with the fact that we were even indulging the theory, that we would even legitimize someone like Turtle Boy and have him on to talk about this, where is this evidence that made all of these people in this cesspool in Canton and elsewhere that made them all so flippin' confident that they had this in the bag? And I don't think there was any evidence. I think it was just the fact that they knew they had power. They had positions that would help them create a case that was cut and dry. They could frame somebody. They could bleep somebody as far as justice goes, and they knew it. Because I haven't seen one piece of evidence in this that makes me go, "Oh, well, yeah, it's cut and dry. There's no question that she killed them." And also, the other part, Jared, is all those people who are coming on here, and by the way, Michael Proctor does this too. They're singing the blues. Oh, Jen McCabe, all these people are harassing me. All these people send horrible things. There was a moment in time. I'm embarrassed to admit this. There was a moment in time where I felt a little bit hesitant to talk about it because I felt like if she did do it, these people are getting a lot of grief. And, you know, they're local and blah, blah, blah. If this is what they're saying in these text messages and these group chats to one another, if this is the level of integrity that these people have, they have lost the right to complain about anybody else being mean to them. This is a group of corrupt, moronic bullies. And so, don't come on here and sing the blues. Don't come on here and tell me you're the victim, Michael Proctor and your wife. Oh, she was home for 10 days with the kids by herself. Wah! I don't care. Get off the cross. We need the wood. I do not care. I don't know how this guy shows his face in public ever again. I don't know how he's sitting there today. I would be like, I think I would collapse in on myself. I would be so humiliated about these text messages. Okay, so let's get into this. We're going to go through all of them throughout the course of the day. Like I said, line is open for you. 844-542-42. So the 16 hours to me is an important part because it really does show you how unconcerned he was about keeping this case confidential. And the issue with that, I mean, besides the fact that it breaks a lot of protocols with his job, is that often times, and I know I know most of this from true crime stuff. But you can't leak things out about a case because there has to be certain things that only the cops know. So that going forward, if you get a tip from somebody, if somebody knows something that they really shouldn't know, it can lead you in a different direction if you're open-minded, which Michael Proctor and a lot of these cops clearly were not open-minded. They clearly went in with a narrative, with the storyline, and they just wanted to shove everything in and make it fit and make it work for them so it could be cut and dry. But there's a reason you keep these things confidential. There's a reason you keep these things on lock. And it's so that going forward, there's certain information that only a small group of people know, and it helps you differentiate between real tips and fake tips between people who might have been there and people who have no business being involved in the case. That's why you keep things top secret. It's not just because you don't want to be a gossip with your friends from high school. But there's an actual reason as far as protecting the case. So let's have cut one. Jackson's asking him about this group chat with his nine high school buddies. So this is a group text or a group chat with you and eight of your high school friends about this investigation, correct? Yes. Triple Proctor, you never thought when you were engaged with these other individuals that this particular set of chats, whatever become public, did you? No, I do not. I want to take a look at page 2527, if you can turn, that's on the bottom right of the document and tab two. Do you recognize? I'm sorry, do you have that page in front of you? Yes, sir. You recognize that this chat, this group chat was taking place on January 29 at about 10.52 PM, correct? Correct. Correct. And the person that I'll identify as 5051, that's the last four digits of that phone number, indicates chip, name of that BPD cop, correct? Correct. First of all, you indicated on Monday that your chip, is that right? Yes, sir. You responded at 10.53 PM, John O'Keefe. Is that right? Yes, sir. So you were willing to tell just a few hours into an investigation of the death of a Boston police officer. You were willing to tell a bunch of high school buddies details about the investigation, including the name of the victim, correct? At this point is 16 hours later, sir, not a few. Oh, never mind, then. You waited a full 16 hours before you told your high school friends about the dead cop on the lawn in Canton, and gave them all this intimate detail about the case. You waited a full 16 good for you. Exoneration. You are a professional. You know what I noticed about Proctor? We've got, like I said, the full hour, so I'm not going to rush this. We're going to go through it nice and slow. We're going to take small bites here, but I notice he's got a tell. They all have tells, you know, all the McCabe's, the Macalberts, whatever you want to call them. Some of them like grin too much, or they like move their mouths in a weird way when they start to feel the pressure. He likes to say, instead of just responding no to something, he likes to say, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Every time he says absolutely not, I think to myself, it's probably true. It's probably absolutely, actually, yes. It's like when someone says, honestly, can I be frank? You know that you're about to get a whopper. He likes to go, absolutely not. Like, it's so outrageous. It's so outrageous all these questions you're asking me, even though I was texting people about Karen Reed's medical conditions, in such a disgusting way, hours after John O'Keefe was dead. But if you ask him something, Jared, that rubs him the wrong way, he goes, absolutely not. Like, how dare you even ask me that? I'm going to be real with you, Michael Proctor. I wouldn't put anything past you at this point. I think all these questions are pretty much on the table right now. 844-500-4242, it's a very serious case, and I don't mean to laugh, but this is a cast of characters. Every single one of them is, and he's doing the same thing. Do you notice he's doing the same type of thing that Jen McCabe did, that Buchanan did, where he looks at the jurors? And I can't figure out how he thinks that's going to work for him, mostly because I can't understand how he can make eye contact with anyone at this point. I don't know how he looks in the mirror, let alone at these jurors, and he's looking at them like, "Yo, yeah, really, you should really believe me." They just heard text messages where you referred to Karen Reed's medical issues and talked about a leaky balloon knot. How are you looking at these people in their faces? Shame! What's the thing from Game of Thrones? Shame! One of my favorite things to do is watch this on the computer on court TV and watch the court TV chat for the people watching on YouTube. Because they're like, "How did these people become police officers?" 'Cause they're like, "Tell me you don't live in Massachusetts without telling me you don't live in Massachusetts." Yeah, I saw one guy go, "I didn't know they made this much money." I'm like, "Oh, yeah, you have no idea." You don't have to wait once a week for your favorite TV show to come on anymore. You can just stream what you want when you want it. You also don't have to wait for your favorite radio station. You want to listen to Grace Curly show? You look it up on your, you know, Spotify, on your Apple podcast. You can pull us right up. Well, guess what? The same rules apply to real estate. You don't have to list your property at a price and then start negotiating. You don't have to wait an unknown period of time to sell. You don't have to listen to negative comments arising out of a home inspection. You can now choose to sell your real estate in a well-marketed auction with JJ Manning. Under your terms, and best of all, my favorite with no contingencies, times have changed, processes have evolved, people do things differently, and that's okay, change is good. The way to sell your real estate is changing, too, and it's changing for the better. JJ Manning uses their 30-30 marketing plan, 30 days of marketing and 30 days to close. They have refined this process over 48 years, luxury homes, rental properties, commercial, land. JJ Manning knows how to squeeze all of the juice out of the orange. So to learn more on how to get your commercial, residential, or land sold quickly, contact Charlie Gill. He's a great guy and you can reach him at 800-521-0111 or visit jjmanning.com. Again, call my buddy Charlie Gill at 800-521-0111 or go to jjmanning.com. We'll be right back. Hi, it's Toby from Cape Gun Works. I'm taking all your firearm and self-defense questions every Tuesday. Join Grace and me for 2A Tuesday, Tuesdays at 2PM. This is the Grace Curly Show. For one of 16 hours later, sir, not a few. 16 is a few hours, correct? Not talking about days later. It's about 16 hours later, sir. Correct. And you identified John O'Keefe as the Boston police officer who is fallen in the yard at 34 Fairview. Correct? Correct. He waited a very solemn 16 hours. You know, and in that 16 hours, he really thought about what kind of text do I want to send out about this to my high school friends, Doc and Chip and Mo and Curly. He's just sitting there with a phone in his hand. He's got the countdown coming. All right, 15, 59, 26, 27, 28. Is that some sort of etiquette thing that we're not privy to? That like you wait a nice full 16 hours before you start making fun of a dead guy and like, oh, his girlfriend's not that hot, no ass. Like, oh, at least he waited 16 hours. I guess then it's no holds bar. The Father's Day experts at Omaha Steaks have made it easy to put a smile on the big guy's face this summer with hand selected gift packages starting at just $89. Go to Omaha Steaks.com. Please use promo code GRACE to get exclusive savings. Check out the latest episode of Meet the Experts with Howie Car featuring Todd Simon, the fifth generation owner of Omaha Steaks, available wherever you get your Howie Car Show podcast. So, again, Omaha Steaks.com, don't forget to use the promo code GRACE to save. Jared, what's the poll question? One of the results thus far. Today's poll question, which you can vote in at gracecurlyshow.com is, if elected, should Trump pardon Hunter Biden. This sounds crazy to people. And I got a lot of response on Twitter from, you know, followers who are not happy with even the idea of that. But there was a piece today in Red State by Rusty Weiss who was suggesting it as kind of a bleep you to Joe Biden, like there would be something funny about Trump saying, "Hey, if I get elected, my first order of businesses, I'm going to pardon Hunter Biden, not just for him, but for the Second Amendment." And like all the things he argued in this case, I do think that would put Biden in a bit of a bind. But for right now, I'm going to vote no. But I am going to explain the piece to people as we go so you can see where Rusty's coming from. 86% of the audiences with you right now know he should not pardon Hunter Biden. Okay, we got a minute left here. Let's go to Jerry. Jerry, what's going on? Happy Wednesday, Grace. You, right back at you. Grace, if I may talk about Michael Proctor for a minute, the things he said were unconscionable, professional, just a real shallow dirt bag. But you know what, the whole group, Grace, they are -- here's my definition of what I think they are. They're an incestuous, multi-generational group of chief liquor booze bag degenerates. They drunk all the time. Are they ever sober? Jerry, I have no notes on that. I have no edits. I have no qualms with anything you can say. I'm going to, you know, Jerry, that was such a succinct description. It was perfect because we're running out of time. Thank you very much. And here's -- and Jerry brings up a great point because a lot of these things, if you go back, it's like booze is -- booze is the heavyweight champ. Booze is undefeated. Booze never loses. Can make a loser out of you, but you're never going to beat the booze. And I think a lot of this stuff we're seeing, these late-night talks, these debauchery, these text messages, a lot of it, you can blame it on the alcohol. We'll be right back. Fireball. From the Aviva Trattria Studio. Bear let's focus, correct? Yes. Who's Bear? That's another nickname I have. Most people in life aren't blessed with more than one nickname. I don't even have a nickname. Yeah, that's what I mean. His cup run it over. Some of us don't even get one. Do you want me to give you one, Jared? I actually didn't have one in high school, I guess. But I no longer go by that name. What was this I'm going to do with comics? Diga. Just diga. The diga. Diglio, you know. Diga. Oh, I getcha. I getcha. Yeah, I'll think of one for you. I think it's going to be like Bear, Chip. It's going to be something short, sweet. You know what, actually, we'll take recommendations. What should Jared's nickname be 617213 1066? Start your text with the word curly. We need to give Jared a canton/statetrooper/groupchat style nickname. And we'll accept the best one. Let's go to Larry. You're up next on The Grace Curly Show. We're talking about the Karen Reed trial. We're talking about Michael Proctor's cross-examination, which is going on right now. But you don't need to watch it live. You can still tune into The Grace Curly Show. We'll give you all the clips you need to hear. What's going on, Larry? I'm just wondering. Does this case simply come down to something very obvious? Well, how did the guy die? I mean, if he had black eyes, was he bruised, was he beaten up, or what did he die of? I mean, if he's got all these injuries, it looks like an attack or some kind. Wouldn't that be an anxiety? But at the same time, maybe the injuries stem from being run over or hit by the car. Why can't a medical examiner come forward and tell us what the autopsy results showed and what the injuries show? We have simplified everything for everybody. Larry, it's a really, really good point that you're making. And actually, we don't have the cuts right now because we're pulling things as it goes. But when I was leaving my desk to come in here at 1205, they had gone into the part of the cross-examination where Jackson was asking Trooper Proctor about the medical examiner's report and the decision that she came to, which was she could not determine if it was homicide. They could not determine what the cause of death was and how rare that is. And he had said in a previous situation, how do they keep describing these previous court dates or previous testimony? They can't say grand jury testimony. I think Jackson actually slept up once or twice today and said it. But yeah, the previous testimonies are prior testimony. A prior occasion that you were a part of a prior situation. So in that prior situation, he had said that the medical examiner or they had showed this text message between Michael Proctor and another state trooper and they were talking about how she didn't give them the result that they wanted because she couldn't determine it. And in a previous testimony, grand jury testimony, I'm assuming, he had said that in all of his years as a state trooper, as an investigator, he had never had that before. He had never had a medical examiner tell him that it was undetermined what somebody died of. Now today that changed. Like everything, everything's changing from these previous testimonies. Today he says he couldn't, he couldn't put a number on it. He couldn't tell you how many, but to Larry's point, that last caller, that medical examiner was also described by Michael Proctor to his coworkers as a whack job. He was very unhappy with the fact that she did not give him the report that would have made this as he liked to describe it cut and dry. He said, of course it's undetermined or of course I might have the exact phrasing wrong, but he was not pleased with the determination from the medical examiner. Now again, to go back to that caller, this is why I have the best callers on planet Earth and I love you guys so much, is that the photo part of this, the autopsy, that's something I don't understand. And I'm going to ask Mark Salinas about it. Like are these, at one point I had talked to Turtle Boy, I had him on, I said, have these jurors seen the photos of John O'Keefe and of his injuries? And he told me that they maybe had seen one, but I have to assume like Larry that that's going to add a different layer of clarity to this case is when you see John O'Keefe's injuries because I have heard that it doesn't make sense that the level of injuries he sustained don't really add up with someone who was hit by a car. Like, and not even saying that he didn't have horrible injuries, people say that his, I think Karen redescribed as his face was pulverized, but that wouldn't have been from a car backing up into him. And you'd have to have somebody better than me explaining it as far as a medical person goes. But what is clear is that Michael Proctor did not like the result that he received from that medical examiner and he also described her as a whack job. And then at one point during the testimony, he couldn't remember if he, when he said she's a whack job, if he was talking about Karen Reed or the medical examiner. I think all of us, I was just talking to the mailer manager, I said, I'm starting to think he thinks a lot of women are whack jobs. I'm sure if he was listening to this show right now, Jared, you know who'd be a whack job out of the two of us, yours truly, Grace Curly's a whack job. But it's amazing how again, people are very quick to dismiss all of this as a conspiracy theory is how could this many people be involved? How could this many people keep their mouth shut? But I would turn right back and say, how do you have a dead body in someone's lawn and the people inside the house don't immediately become suspects? How do you not approach the cop who owns the house and ask him to come outside and talk to you? How have you not been able to show anything in this case that pins Karen Reed to this crime? Ed, you're up next on the Grace Curly show. What's going on, Ed? Hi, Grace. Um, Colonel Boy has said one of the reasons that they're trying this case is so that they have something to point to, you know, when people say, well, who killed John O'Gee if they could say, well, you know, we, we did our best, but, you know, the public was brainwashed or that, you know, by the accounts. Another thing I think that's going on here that Karen Reed has to pay attention to is there's a three-year statute of limitations in Massachusetts for a defamation suit. And so that means if she's going to sue these people civilly for defamation, she's got a little over seven months to file that lawsuit or she forever loses her ability to do that. I'm sure she's on top of it. I mean, she's got an A plus legal team, um, and you're right, Ed, about as far as, but you know what? Ed just brought up and I was talking with my dad about this earlier because my dad said, I can't imagine that Morrissey and all these people knew that all these texts were going to be read and how embarrassed the state troopers were going to be. I mean, Colonel Boy pointed out on how we show Governor Mar Healy. She's in charge of the state troopers. This is a bad reflection on all of Massachusetts. I don't think I'm being dramatic when I say that. This is a horrible look. I have friends texting me who are never involved in politics, never care about the stuff who are saying this is, this person's a lead investigator and a murder. This is bonkers. But my dad said if they knew all of this, if they knew they were going to be so humiliated with this Michael Proctor, calling people horrible words I can't say on the air and talking about people's medical conditions. How did they not at any point say, listen, we just got to drop the charges and take the loss here. We cannot go in front of the nation, face it. It's a nationwide story now. It's not a local story. It's nationwide. There's people all over the country who are watching this. They knew this was going to be aired. The people were going to be zoned in. Michael Morrissey was very, very aware of the kind of roller coaster or the rapid fire effect that Turtle Boys blog had had. The people were really gripping onto this thing as a true crime sensation, so they knew this was all going to be put out there. And then when you're having a trial, you know what the judge is going to allow. You know what's being allowed into evidence. So how does Morrissey not at any point or any of these people at any point say, we cannot go forward with this. This is too embarrassing. We'll never come back from it. It's over for all of us. If you have Michael Proctor up there reading these text messages that he wrote to his friends. And I don't know if they just felt like it was too far along or they had spent too much time or too much money or maybe they really thought that there wasn't the interest was going to die down, but they miscalculated big time. Okay, let's play more of these cuts here. So this is Jackson again, asking Trevor Proctor about these texts that he sent to his high school friends as he pointed out 16 hours after John O'Keefe was found dead. This is cut to you also inform these same folks, these same high school buddies that quote all the powers that be want answers ASAP, correct? Yes. You knew Trooper Proctor that there was brass that wanted this case wrapped up quickly and efficient. Isn't that right? Jackson. Oh well that. Is that what you were thinking? No, the people wanted answers, sir. They wanted it. They didn't just want answers. They wanted answers ASAP. What is ASAP mean? That's as soon as possible. Right. And you were texting this to your high school friends again, 16 hours into this investigation, right? Correct. And you knew at that time, you knew at that time Trooper Proctor that this was not going to implicate in any way, shape, form or fashion, another cop, correct? Correct. A few things, I love when these cops, and you know, Jared, when Brian Higgins was on the stand, we had mentioned that he was a fake tough guy and I said, I love when they get into this, this kind of attitude of like, we wanted answers right away. Like suddenly they're the character in the Mark Wahlberg movie. They're, they're the, we're still have a lot of respect for them. And when we were talking about Brian Higgins, when we were making fun of his testimony and we said, oh, yeah, he's the fake tough guy. Oh, you know, if I had been there, you know, this is what I would have done. And I got this email from this guy. He's like, you don't know Brian Higgins. This is what we're dealing with now. He is a real tough guy. He did X, Y and Z. I'm like, will you please stop with the trying to put a shine on this, on this sneaker? I hate to break it to people, but that ship has sailed like you are not rehabilitating any of these people in my mind. And I'm not going to get emails about how I should feel bad. I called him a fake tough guy. What these people were calling Karen Reed, and I'm not saying Brian Higgins did it because in comparison to Michael Proctor's text, he looks like a choir boy, but I'm not the issue. And the people who are interested in this case are not the issue. They love to clutch their pearls, don't they? We wanted answers right away. Oh, is that why you were texting all day long? Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the fact that it seems as though most of these people spend their times glued to these phones, texting each other. And drinking. When they're not drinking. And there's probably a little bit of texting and drinking, you know, there's probably a time in the schedule where they mix both. They mix business and pleasure. But this reminds me when we talk about Hunter Biden and we say, you know, between the filming yourself having sex and smoking crack, is there any time left in the day to do anything else? This takes up a lot of time. It's texting. I think if I was texting as often Jared in the office, I don't think I'd get anything done. They're always on their phones. He's texting his sister multiple times a day. He's calling her. He's got the group chat with his high school friends. He's got the group chat with his state trooper friends. This is a full time job. I don't think it would pay a hundred and forty something thousand dollars a year. But he's moonlighting as like a professional texture. It's, and we haven't even gotten to the really good stuff. I'm saving that. There's three cuts that I have here that we might have to save for the one o'clock, Jared, because they're just too juicy, eight, four, four, five hundred, forty two, forty two. And of course, the homeowner comes into play. Actually, let's play one more though, because I keep referencing the cut and dry. Ah, no, I'm going to save it. Sorry. I'm all over the place today, everybody. I'm just, this is too much for me. There's so much sound to get to. It feels like it's Christmas morning going through all this sound. And this is just the wackiest day. Bear, let's focus. Yeah, we're, he's calling everybody else whack jobs. I don't think he is the prime example of sanity in any way, shape or form. And I, again, I just, I love how he's like posturing himself as his honest. Like he's looking at the jurors, like, absolutely not. We would never do that. Hmm. I think you lost the jurors by the book investigation based on evidence we saw. If I were the judge, in this case, I would say you can't look at the jurors anymore after the leaky balloon, not text. You have lost the right to look at people in the eye forever, sir. You look down at the podium. You look down at your little chair. You do not look anyone here in the eye. We can't. We can't handle it. I do have to say there was a lot of questioning from a lot of different people when all this started, if the judge was kind of in the bag for the prosecution. Now I can tell, like, I think even she is sick of these people because she's not right. She's allowing everything just to get through this. She does seem to rush Jackson more than she does the Commonwealth, like the Commonwealth's lawyers, Lally and all these people, they're, they're, it's like, you know how they said the JB team versus the varsity? This is like professional. This is like the Celtics versus a group of middle schoolers, like these people shouldn't even be in the same courtroom. They're in different worlds as far as legal abilities, but she does seem to rush Alan Jackson when it's like, I want this dude taking his sweet time. Every single one of these texts could be a full day of breaking it down. Well, we'll come back to this and I know I keep saying this, but I just want to make it clear. I don't mean to ever make a light of any of this. It's very serious and I feel horrible for John O'Keefe's family, but it is nice to see Michael Proctor have to sit there and get cross examined and explain some of this group test behavior. Father's Day is almost here. If you're struggling to find the perfect gift for the man who has everything, well, I have the solution for you and it's very simple. It's very easy. It's not very expensive, but it's delicious. And that is the unforgettable experience of Omaha Steaks because a world-class dad deserves a world-class steak. 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So go to Omaha Steaks.com because dad wants steak. Visit Omaha Steaks.com today. Don't forget to use the promo code GRACE at checkout. And also don't forget to let me know what you chose. You know, I picked this up for dad because I think he's going to like it. This is how we're going to grill it up. I love to hear your experience and get your feedback on Omaha Steaks because I love it so much. Jared loves it so much. The whole crew here at the Howie Car Radio Network. We really love this product and I think you guys will too. Go to Omaha Steaks.com and then use promo code GRACE at checkout. We'll be right back. You're listening to the Grace Curly Show. This is the Grace Curly Show. Welcome back everyone to the Grace Curly Show. You know, I'm tuning into the testimony in between the breaks and it's getting even worse. Michael Proctor sounds like he's having a panic attack on the stand. He's very breathing very heavily, having a very hard time coming up with these details. And the way I read that is it's hard when you're lying about things and you're changing your story. It's a lot easier to tell the truth. It's a lot less complicated when you're just telling things that you remember happening. And another factor in this, and we're going to talk about his relationship with the proctors. I'm sorry, with the alberts and the text messages back and forth and the thing you get. We're going to get into all of that. But the driving drunk, the amount of people in Canton driving around, drinking booze, getting in their cars, getting in their cruisers, some plowing other people's driveways. That's part of this story too. It's like any sort of concern about other people on the road, I really think you have a case of a group of people who thought they were untouchable, which is so crazy because they're not like the first family, none of these people, they're union guys, they're cops. They're, they really never thought anything was going to come out of this. And you know, when Karen Reed looked at those cops in the Milton barracks and she said, is this a joke? This is a joke, right? And she said, John O'Keefe's head was pulverized and that he got the crap kicked out of him in that house. I would have said, is this, this is a nightmare? This isn't a joke, this is a nightmare. This guy, Michael Proctor, in another world where this all didn't come out, would have been in charge, would have sealed Karen Reed's fate. And this is what he's saying behind the scenes. Now that's chilling. We'll be right back. We're going to get to all this sound. Don't go anywhere. (upbeat rock music)