all you have and I'll see you next week. Welcome back. Our three of the fan morning show. Nice little pull by Josh Santos because I kept calling me petty. You get a little. Oh, nice. Yeah. I didn't put two together. Everything comes full circle around here. You just got to say the right things. Yeah. Speaking of full circle, we get a lot of people. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. 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I'm a big fan of the game. some new players, but it's an exciting time. And yeah, I'll take third. It'll be great. Yeah, really. 100%. Thanks a lot. Craig, enjoy the rest of the day, pal. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, fellas. There you go. It's Craig Forest, the footy prime podcast and former team candidate goalkeeper. That insider was brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus dot com. Before we get to something else, I just didn't want to point out if you are look, if you want to look at what the future looks like, potentially for Canada and some of the players coming up, you need to look up Canucks abroad and they give you a list of all the players that have Canadian eligibility that are playing abroad. They're playing domestically here. It's for men's players, female players, youth players, like they've got the whole thing there. So it's a great resource to find out what is going on in the future of Canadian soccer. It looks very, very bright. One player that really comes to mind is Jaden de Guzman, who is born in the Netherlands. He was born in Rotterdam, but of course, he has lineage. His father is Canadian and he plies his trade at PSV Eindhoven for the U18s there. So he is born in 2007. So he is just 17 years old. But again, like these are the types of players. You know, he's also joined by another player, Kevin Kahn, who is also there. He's born in 2008, plays for the U 17. I mean, this is in a roundabout way. It hits on something that Jesse Marsh mentioned, and it was more specific to the CPL. But he talked about actually how the young players in this system need to be challenged more regularly. And that entails, you know, heck, maybe it's there's there's an added incentive or bonus just like you see even in the CFL where like there's a certain number of imports versus non import players that have to play. But but something to make sure to help ensure that these young Canadian players are getting opportunities to play. So not just beyond a team, not just beyond a roster, or if you're 17, 18 years old, and he's specifically single about those young players. And it's very apt and applicable because heck, one of the best players in the world that we've seen in this international window happened to be 16 years old. And heck, the guy who plays across from him, opposite of him for Spain in Nico Williams is 21 and Jude Belliam is 21. And so you see how much youth factors into the the high level teams, the teams that are playing at the highest quality, you need to have youth on your side. Sure, you need guys that are established and have experience. But youth is so important. And it hits on something that Jesse Marsh has alluded to now on a few different occasions. And one thing that I actually want to just praise Jesse Marsh for, is for a guy that's been on the job in this role for less than two months now, Matty, it feels he exudes leadership. Yes, like he's got a vision and an idea of how he wants this team to play. But bigger picture, how he wants the program and its developmental tentacles to look. And I think that is awesome to have somebody in place who has the vision, the foresight, thinking that far ahead. Heck, he's still in the midst of this tournament. And he's taken time and he's part time to preach about the importance of this. That tells me a lot about the type of individual he is, the type of leader he is, and how much, a how passionate he is. But obviously, there's an incredible coaching acumen there. And I'm excited for what that means for the future of this program. >> There's something also to be said about capping young players, bringing them up through the program, capping them at a young age so that you have them in your system. There was a goalkeeper. >> Well, I think they did that with credit again to Hermit, but they did that with Kone. >> Yeah. >> That was an Alfonso Davies. That's why they really was before Hermit. But with Kone, I do remember they pushed hard to just get him on the roster and cap him for the sole and, you know, explicit purpose of saying he's ours. Like that's a big deal, especially when you're Canada, it's less of a priority when you're other countries. But sure, it matters. It really mattered. By the way, I was just taking pick up that Canucks abroad that you referenced, that website in the real unbelievable, really good stuff. >> There's a lot of good stuff there. >> Just gave him a nice little follow-up done. >> So there's also, though, this has been a thing where it's been a problem. Like you bring these players up. Do you remember the name Azmir Beggavitch? >> That name sound familiar? >> How really? >> Well, he was a, he was a Premier League goaltender, a goalkeeper, played for Stoke, played for Chelsea, Everton, played for QPR. Was on the bench for Canada, never got capped and ended up going to play for Bosnia. >> Ooh, that's tough pill swallowing, right? This is a mistake that they've made so often for whatever reason. And now this is a chance to fix that problem. We got a couple minutes before we take a break and get to our next guest Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun. I did want to bring up this Paul Skeens thing. And for those that don't know, Paul Skeens is a fantastic young pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates. He was taken out of a game after a note hitter, after seven innings and throwing 99 pitches. This is getting silly. This is getting silly. You are talking about one of the most electric players in baseball, period. I would put him behind Aaron judge and Shohei Otani only as the most watchable baseball players on the planet right now. And he just started his majorly career. This guy may end up starting the all star game. He should after what 11, 10, 11 starts. It's, it's unbelievable. But this, this is getting silly. I believe if I'm not mistaken, he has two starts of six innings and no hits that I are on top of my head. I don't know. I thought I had seen that. I have to double check. But I thought I had seen that in the last part to do that was Nolan Ryan in 1973. Last time I checked, he's pretty good. That's not but this notion of taking this guy out. If there was ever a time at the, at the age that he is that you're going to allow a guy to throw 120 pitches and go for a no hitter for a pirates team that isn't very good and doesn't have much going for them, how do you not let him do it? So if this happened 10 years ago, today would be all about Paul skeins. This story would be dominating every headline. It would be leading every major sport talk show. But it's not why? Because in a weird way, we've almost become immune to it. It's not that it's been normalized, but there's been a level of immunity amongst fans, amongst media of people. This is now this is the reality that we face. And to me, that is actually the biggest indictment. It's the fact that as a fan, it's become the norm. That's it. Yeah. So as a fan yesterday, I'm sitting there and I'm consuming this and you're sort of catching wind of what's going on and you're flipping over to see what to tune in to see. Okay, let's see if you can get there. Guess what happens? I am not as a fan. I am not so I'm already thinking in my head. I am conditioned to think the worst. I'm conditioned to think that at 99 pitches, he is coming out and there is no chance he's coming out for the the fact that I have that in my brain as a fan is a problem. There's no other sport where when individual athlete is on the precipice of something great, yeah, the opportunity is ripped away from them. They are not deprived of that. In fact, the team, the players, their teammates will go out of their way to give them that extra opportunity. But in baseball, it's different. It's different when it comes to starting pitchers. Now, whatever, you can say, you know, he threw 107 pitches in his last start before this one. And hey, man, how many times what if what if, God forbid, he goes out tomorrow or he pitches at the all stream and he blows his arm out? Yeah, again, knock on what I'm not I'm not trying to check that on. We want we want him to play. But what I'm saying is this idea that you have to protect and insulate guys, I really hate this. Yeah, because frankly, it he could any of us could go outside and suffer an injury or of some kind. We could we can hurt our elbow throwing a tennis ball. He could doing his elaborate warm up routine. He could blow out his elbow. What's the difference between that being pitch 105 in a game versus pitch 10 against the Washington Nationals? Yeah, in two weeks. Yeah, my point being nothing's guaranteed and it can happen at any moment. So to deprive people of what could be special moments makes zero sense to me. And that is what this is. We're depriving people of the opportunity to see special things happen. And he's one of the great attractions in the sport. And yesterday could have been an awesome moment for the sport to elevate it on a day where, frankly, there was not a lot going on. It would have been the major headline. It would have been awesome for major league baseball for the pirates and for him individually. And yet that was taken away from us. By the way, it is confirmed Paul Skeens to starts six innings. No hits this year. And he's been taken out of the game. Nolan Ryan, literally the only guy that's on it since nine. Come on. Here's here's manager Derek Shelton trying to defend this ridiculousness. Not at all. He I mean, he was tired. I mean, it was, you know, it really didn't have anything to do with the pitch count. Everybody makes it about pitch counts. It was about where he was at. It was about, you know, trusting your eyes, trusting him when I went and talked to him after after that. I mean, he was tired. They did a good job of wearing him down. And I mean, he gave us everything he had his ability to adjust within the game. And again, going back to, you know, I thought the Brewers did a really good job with him. I mean, we had not seen anybody make him grind like that early in the game. And even without giving up hits, the fact that he was able to, you know, take his game to the level that he needed to to finish it, I thought was important. Here's the rookie. Yeah, I don't think anybody thinks that you're when you come to the big leagues, it's going to be like this. And there's going to be some rough patches that he's gone through. I think we're just speaking. It's a testament to, you know, last year, we made the right decision. We made the right decision on how we prepared him coming into the year, whether people thought it was right or wrong. And I think we're seeing a guy that's just really talented. He's right about one thing. They made the right decision in how they chose to develop him and deploy him because it's what they they they accelerated that development and got him to the big leagues. Why? Because as I said earlier, you'd ever know what might happen. So you might as well put him in the position where he deserves to be, which is yeah, frontline starter. And it's just so funny to me, the rationale he gives is using our eyes. If your eyes were the what you used as the barometer to gauge how where he was in that outing, heck, even your your ability to communicate with the guy in the dugout, probably would have told you I'm good. I want to keep going. And yet it's not like he pointed to an analytics thing, right? He said my eyes told me this. Well, everybody else was sitting there saying, man, this guy looks unbelievable. Yeah, they they, you know, the Brewers really grinded him out when he struck out 11 batters for seven ground balls and three fly balls. And just had a six pitch inning in the six. Yeah, that's the other thing, Matty. Like he was getting more and more efficient as the game went along. Yeah, he looked really tired. This is this is an epidemic in baseball. I mean, well, it's never going to go anywhere. But I mean, it'll it'll never change. So we should probably just like you said, it's become the norm. And that is very annoying. We got to take a break when we come back. Rob Longley from the Toronto side, we'll talk about the Toronto Blue Jays. Kevin Kermier on waivers. Boba Shet is hurt. But hey, they got a series win against the San Francisco Giants. They get the D backs tonight. We'll see what happens there. Some familiar faces going up against the Toronto Blue Jays, or at least one anyway. We'll talk about that and more when we come back. Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun is next. This is the fan morning show. Matt Marchese, Danny Ellie Francesca, you're listening on Sportsnet 590, the fan covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jay's talk plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jay's talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back. The fan morning show. Sportsnet 590, the fan. Matt Marchese, Danny Ellie French Husky. Why are you, why are you pointing at Josh Santos? That's ice cube. See, I like there are things that you surprised me with every day. Like I had, you have admittedly said that you are not a music fan and then you pull this out of the bag. Geez, you surprised me every day to nearly French Husky. It's cute, man. The Toronto Blue Jays don't surprise me every day. I just feel like we're in a kind of a weird circle of whatever the heck this is. Yes, indeed. Things are going to start to get interesting joining us on the line. Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun. How are you today, Rob? Hey, good guys. How are you? We're good. We're good. So Daniele and I, we open the show today and we're talking about as we get closer to the trade deadline. How deep these cuts go here because, you know, if we all believe the reports out there that anybody who has control after this year is not going to be traded at this deadline, which leads me to believe that maybe the guys in charge now aren't going to be making those decisions. But how deep does this go? Because you still have to feel the baseball team. And it's not as if this is an organization that is flush with guys that you want to bring up to the major league roster. Maybe some of the guys you trade for might end up filling that those gaps. But it's, it's a, it's a an organization that is really devoid of a lot of guys that are close to the majors that could end up, you know, just giving you some, some games here down the stretch. Like, how deep do you believe the cuts go here? I got to believe guys that that's, that's part of the conundrum that the front office faces because this just didn't, you still have to find a way to get 27 outs every night. So like, could baseball games go on in fit, like infinite at time? If they don't, if they get rid of all the relievers, how are they going to get these out? I joke. I mean, it's facetious, but it makes you, it does make you wonder how deep they go. I mean, my, my hunch would be that they, they focus on getting rid of dealing guys that are on expiring contracts and, and try to sort of reload in whatever way they can for one more run at it. And in a lot of ways, it reminds me of back in 2017, when they said, okay, we're going to give Donaldson and, and Southeast a one more shot of this. And, and if it doesn't work out, then, then we blow it up. But I can't see the blow up at this point. There's too much at stake financially for the team in terms of the new stadium and, and all the hopes and expectations that were centered around Vlad and Bo. I mean, can you really blow it up right now and, and, and saves safe face with the fan base? It's I'm not so sure how much the front office and, and the executive at the Blue Jays care about that, but it certainly has to factor into it. And, you know, I mean, I suppose if you're being glass half full in, in the baseball operations department, you'd be saying that a lot of the guys that have performed poorly this year, that's, that's bottom of the barrel for them. They say can't be any worse. So there is still some talent on the roster. So maybe you just try to piece together one more year at it before you, you get to the blow up page. But because before long, there's going to be a whole bunch of expiring contacts and contracts rather. And I think we're, we're at the point now where it's a little bit too early to blow it all up. Maybe some expiring contacts to Rob. Maybe that's possible. You never know. You never know. Um, okay. Hearing you say that, I got to admit, it doesn't make me feel very reassured from the standpoint of it just illustrates how, how bereft of talent and depth they, they are right now in the system. Like there isn't anything, almost to the point where as you laid out, you actually have to consider. Well, if we trade player X and player Y and maybe player Z, then what does it mean for us getting 27 outs on July, the, or sorry, August 12th on a Tuesday and you're thinking, ah, man, but we got to throw something out there. And they actually have nobody, like they can't point to anybody. And maybe, maybe Rob, that actually points to what could be the biggest indictment on this front office, which is they're pretty checkered track record when it comes to drafting, developing and fielding, building major league players. We haven't seen them do that. And frankly, that was before the team ever got to a point where it was destined to be competitive, where they were motivated to field a team capable of being in the playoffs and hopefully doing damage. Obviously that didn't, that didn't happen. They didn't end up winning any playoff games. But before that ever became a conversation point, they were brought in with the explicit goal of replenishing the system. Is that perhaps the greatest indictment on them? The fact that they haven't been able to do that. And now it's hurting them at a point where they need to pivot, but they really can't because they got nothing left behind them that they can go tap into in their minor league system. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. That that is the biggest indictment of this front office, because not only did they not replenish the minor league system, they depleted it. And really, we were promised, fans were promised that the way the Blue Jays were going to operate was precisely the way the Baltimore Orioles are operating right now. Now I realize that the Orioles had a bunch of first round picks and it took them a lot of the lean years to get to the point where they are now. But we were sort of promised that the business model of the baseball operations department with the Blue Jays was going to be just that, you were going to have this steady stream of prospects that you were going to trap and develop and that you were going to continue to either trade them for assets or bring them up to the major league system. And success would continue on in perpetuity. And here we are four or five years after those promises were kind of made with talks with incredible flux inside the organization and actual talk of blowing it all up. And I think anybody who was hoping that they would get back into this race before the trade deadline was we're kidding themselves. And now we certainly have evidence that they are sellers by putting Kevin Camayo on waivers as they did yesterday. That shouldn't be a surprise to anybody, but it's certainly a slap in the face of the reality of the situation around that team. And yeah, I mean, you wonder about what assets they even have to trade right now because there's not a whole lot in the, in the minor league system. And what are they going to be able to get to replenish that group with what they have to offer at the trade deadline? Not a whole lot. I don't think Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun joining Matt Marchesi and Deniali Francesca here on the fan morning show. So when, when talking about that and kind of trying to look ahead to next season, boy, they, they, they just did renovations on this ballpark. And from a business perspective, it's not good business to not have butts in the seats, which leads me to my next point. You cannot go into next year, not having an extension done for one of, or both of Boboshette and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Now I also concede that I don't think that Boboshette is going to be signing an extension here. I think he's more likely to be traded, but the Vladigararo thing is very real. And I believe that he would resign here. In terms of building this thing for next year, are you an agreeance that if you want to try and sell tickets, not having one of those guys in your lineup is probably not good business. And do you think that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and that extension is priority number one here? Yeah, I think so. I think, I think I think why Guerrero is the, is the flash point for all of this. I mean, really, how many years now have we been told that he was the future of the franchise, you know, both both to a certain extent as well. But it was always kind of Vlad, Vlad's world. Vlad's the guy who can hit 40 home runs when he gets hot. Vlad, Vlad is the face of the franchise. Vlad is the face of the fan base. Vlad is popular well beyond Toronto. He's a superstar in this sport or seen, seen as such anyway. And he's the guy who can win you ball games almost single handedly, and he can fill the seats almost single handedly. So I think as an organization, you have to do just about anything you can to keep him in the fold and continue to build around him. You know, it'll be take two of building around him, but that's probably the route that you have to go. And you have to believe that ownership or the front office at least recognizes that there's a certain amount of angst around the fan base now. I mean, seats are still selling. They're still getting over 30,000 night most nights. I think we're going to find a little bit of a drop off in August and September that way, but they keep adding promotions to sort of get people in the building. But remember that the luxury suites aren't even finished yet. I mean, the people that are paying the big money for those haven't even had an opportunity to settle in and enjoy what that's all supposedly going to be. That's going to be mostly for next year. I'm sure they're going to be done before the end of the season, but the product on the field isn't going to be such that you're going to be clamoring to get into those private boxes. So there's a lot on the line financially for the team in this offseason, because as we know in baseball, especially so much of the ticket sales are advanced. And I think people loaded up on their seats this year. They bought them in the wintertime, expecting this team to be a contender. Now they're somewhat stuck with them. And you can see it in the resale market. The resale market is pretty lean out there right now. You can get tickets at a very reasonable price. So I think financially there is a lot on the line. And I think for that reason, they have to both be aggressive in the offseason and trying to remain a contender. But in particular being a super aggressive and trying to lock up a guy like Vlad Giro Jr. Well, I think, I mean, you hit on so many different things there, Rob, that are in peak interest right now. To me, it all ties back to the front office really. And, you know, who are the individuals that are making those decisions? Because it feels like this is going to be a pivotal offseason. You have Bowen Vlad in the final years of their deal and everything that's going on as it relates to the investment that's been made in this team, both on the field and off field. Because frankly, if we look at the roster, like they, they, and I think, gosh, geez, I'm trying to remember where I saw this stat earlier in the week, but even going into next year, they already have $190 million committed on their payroll to guys that are under team control for a team that is going to miss the playoffs in all likelihood for a team that's probably going to finish below 500. Like that is, this front office has had carte blanche to at least propose different strategies and the ability to pursue free agents at a high degree. Does everything, I guess, begin and end as it relates to whatever the future looks like for this team with the front office? And what does that, what does that look like in terms of how this offseason plays out, where we see that begin once the 2024 season is officially behind us? Yeah, this is a fascinating part of it all. Really, what does ownership do with the front office? And maybe more specifically, what does Mark Shapiro do with his baseball operations department if he remains in charge? And, you know, all the indications would suggest that Mark Shapiro wasn't going anywhere unless he goes on his own because he's done a lot of good things for Rogers, for the ownership. You know, business is pretty good. The renovations on the stadium have received rave reviews, and legitimately so, they've done a nice job on it. It's on the baseball operations side that things have fallen through. So can Ross Atkins be entrusted to oversee another sort of rebuild? Many would suggest not, but you know, perhaps you just reshuffle the way things are done. Perhaps you bring in another voice. You completely come up with a new look on how you approach things in building a contender because it hasn't worked so far. And alternatively, maybe there'll be a sense that, you know what, there was a lot of bad luck here. And we're better than this. And we'll, you know, we'll turn things around. We'll add where we can, but we still believe in this core, although that refrain is getting kind of old because we've heard it for the past two offseason now. Rob, I got a couple of minutes for this. You know, Danielle and I were talking about this the other day. And when you look at this group two years ago, the conversation obviously would have been different. And we look two years ahead. How many of these guys realistically, do you think are a part of this that are on the roster right now? Well, that's, I mean, that's pretty hard to say. It's, and of course, that's the height of all this interest. I mean, you have to, you have to think that Jose Barrios would be a part of it. You know, he's proven that he can be an ace. He's gone through struggles like others have. And I think a lot, any starting pitcher that's been struggling for the Blue Jays now, I think a lot of it has to do with stress and overwork because there's just, they have to pitch games where their offense is in scoring runs and where they don't have a bullpen. So, so, you know, you look at guys like Barrios and, and Gosman and, you know, maybe even Bassett, although Bassett could be a kind of guy that you'd get something for at the trade deadline. We talked about Vlad. I think Varshow because he's under, under control, you wouldn't want to see him go anywhere. You'd try to get something for Springer maybe, but nobody's going to, nobody's going to fight on him with that, with that, that contract. So, it's, unless you were going to eat some of it. So, you know, I think there's, there's a handful of guys that would still, still be a part of this. It's just a matter of how they decide to approach it and what, what return they could get on, on, on some of those assets. If, if you get an offer that blows you away for Jose Barrios, you certainly listen to it, right? Especially if it, if it comes with, with high end prospects and, and, and maybe a, a player that can contribute immediately. So, I would suspect that they would, you know, they would be open to listening to all offers, but I, I would think that there'd be a few players that they would, would be reluctant to part with. Well, it's going to be fascinating. I mean, the trade deadline is just coming up in a couple of weeks and boy, oh boy, down is on. Yeah, it really does feel like you're going to be a very busy guy. So enjoy it while you can. Thanks so much for taking some time for us this morning. Greatly. Appreciate it, man. Thanks, Rob. Hey, my, my pleasure guys. Take care. Have a good weekend. You too. There he goes. Rob Longley from the Toronto Sun boy. Can I give a parting thought? Sure. Okay. All right. Whoo. There should be no insinuation that this is a roster and a team that needs just a simple visit to the ER and a little bit of triage. They need major surgery. Honestly, they do. Maybe it may be a lobotomy too. And any, and any insinuation that they can sort of use a band aids and tinker with things to get it back to a point where they're going to be in a playoff position next year. I personally think I personally think that is I don't want to say pipe dream, but that's highly unrealistic. So I just hope they are pragmatic and as pragmatic as can be, do what is right, be prudent and face the reality that you're currently dealt with. Go from there. This is obviously a pivotal trade deadline. But yeah, that's just my piece on that. And I felt like I've, I've been eager to say that. And I think it sort of sums up, you know, in using an analogy, it sums up how I feel about where they are. Yeah, you didn't feel like that at the beginning of the year, right? Like coming into this year, it felt like it felt like, you know, especially the bullpen, the bullpen feel that that is a massive, massive overhaul that needs to be done there. And that's something that we looked at saying it was, it was, oh, but you can, you can fix those. It's the other stuff. The things that are more deep rooted, that are systematic. That's the part that's tricky to fix. Yeah, it's going to be, oh boy, it is a good, it's definitely going to be interesting that we can say for sure. Oh yeah. That might be the peak of the J season, by the way, honestly, yeah, as sad as that sounds, like the fact we're, we're us being eager to see who they trade away. That might be the peak. Yeah. And that's not necessarily a good thing. No, I know. That's going to do it for us. Thanks to everybody that joined us on the show today. Peter Drury, Craig Forrest, Rob Longley. Wonderful show. Thank you to Danieli Franceski across the table. Thanks to Josh Santos, Jess, Jeff as a party behind the glass. We will be back on Monday. Enjoy the weekend. Everybody will talk to you then. This has been the Fan Morning Show on SportsNet 590, the Fan.
