good morning and welcome in. It's the fan morning Joe fourth and five 90 the fan reunited and it feels so good to have our daddy. Danielle Franceski here with you for the next three hours. A little bit less than the four hour one that we did on Monday together slightly a different mathematically one more mathematically in a different a different setting as well. Not quite the view of a lovely copy of golf course. But a Blue Jays win a series win one of the rarities on the schedule and you know Kevin Kevin Godwin was mentioned in that clip he goes seven innings against his former team in a ballpark we had a lot of success two earned runs, no walks and three strikeouts. The series win is nice. Sure. At the end of the day, you know, we had Boba. Like there's you know what it is? There's always something with this team. That's what it feels like right now. There's always something and whether it be Boba. Shet before the game. John Schneider says, you know, he's got a bit of a cap issue. He's day to day. Arden Swelling says that could be an I else then. And he's like, OK, of course it is. And then after the game, you get to win and Kevin Kermiers placed on waivers for the purpose of a trade, which listen, we all know where this thing is heading. We understand all of that. I guess the biggest question that I have is how deep do these cuts go? Because you still have to feel something post trade deadline. And it's not as if this this system is flush with guys that you're just itching to bring up to the Major League roster. And not only that, it's it's all what does this mean going into next year? Because you cannot go into a season and at least from my perch over here with this ownership group. And I feel like I always have to say, yes, we understand we work for the company as well. But from a business perspective, they just did renovations. I don't see a scenario in which this team is going to tank and completely rebuild this this roster from top to bottom. Well, I think there are layers to it. It is very difficult to be quite honest. In my opinion, at least to envision a scenario where the Blue Jays go from being a sub 500 team this year and end up winning 90 games next year or even getting back to that 89 win threshold. That is that's a lot to ask. I feel of a team that even optically with our own eyes doesn't look very good at times. A storyline also Mattie that by the way you didn't mention that emerged yesterday and maybe flu slightly under the radar a little bit, but it was rather appropriate given who they were facing yesterday is the idea of Nate Pearson. Oh, yeah, moving back to the rotation in 2025. And this was something that I don't know if it was, you know, it was obviously the idea was presented by Shida VD who mentioned on the pregame show had a discussion with Nate to, you know, see if there was any material sort of feedback there in regards to his desire to do it. The quotes would suggest, yeah, he really seems like he's interested in this as a guy who came up as a starter. And clearly, if you can be a quality major league starter, there's probably better returns in there financially. And over the course of your career, the opportunities that arise from being a good major league starter. But that was one that sort of slid under the radar a little bit. Going back to your main question, though, and that story, it speaks to what we know, which is this system is bereft of talent beyond the major league roster. And if we laid out a scenario, because we keep hearing this time and again, people trying to in and around the team, or even externally on a national level, people who are tapped in talking about, well, the J's don't want to punt on 2025 either, right? They want to still be competitive. They want a challenge for a postseason spot in 2025. If we assembled a list of qualifiers of certain thresholds that they need to meet in order to be in that position, it's a lengthy one. And it consists of a lot of ifs and hopes and maybes as opposed to closer to being certainties. That is a problem. That was a problem last off season. So why would it be different? I understand from a business standpoint, of course, of course, there is not going to be an appetite to have this become a wholesale tear down to the point where you are saying we are selling off every major asset we have. It's going to hurt, but we need to replenish the system. Arguably, frankly, that's probably the way you should go. It is maybe the most pragmatic and logical way you should proceed. But I get it in terms of being skeptical about how that's going to impact or being apprehensive about the impact it's going to have on your fan base. I understand that. It's a fascinating question because we've seen now varying degrees of reporting on the idea of what happens with certain players. It seems like the expiring contracts on this team odds are and we saw it again yesterday with the Keir Meyer decision, it seems like they're going to be gone. And that feels like almost a certainty. The closest thing we can get with this front office is that those pieces are probably going to be gone by July 30th. Beyond that, I would suggest and I think based on what we've heard and seen, it's unlikely that other guys who should be considered trade candidates are going to be moved. The guys with control are probably going to stay. >> And I think that reflects on who's going to be making that call. I think that's the biggest factor in all of this is it's not likely. I mean, maybe the president and the GM are back next year. I don't know the answer to that question. It feels like maybe it's one or both that aren't. But I've been surprised before. But what I think it does speak to is there is going to be a complete reevaluation of where this team is at from top to bottom. >> The general, the president, to the general manager, to the manager on down through the players, the staff, all of it. I think there's going to be a real deep dive into what we are doing and how we need to fix it. >> But do we know that for sure? We don't. >> See, that's the other thing that scares me a little bit. Because I think logically, if we're trying to approach this from a very sort of neutral position and say, okay, in most instances, when this situation X arises, where you see a team that's kind of teetering on mediocrity, but has veteran players and invaluable assets, which did Jay's do, they have players that whole value around baseball. Mind you, some of them, again, this gets back to when do you cash in on those? You need to be very deliberate and when you're doing that. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know that it's a foregone conclusion. We can say when the 2024 season concludes that our perception of what we think should be done or the approach, the change in philosophy methodology that needs to happen, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they're going to feel the same way. Because we've seen how they react and how they as an organization approach certain things. I think what's going to happen here and I can already visualize it. Two weeks from now, when the deadline rolls around and they trade away, you say Kakuchi, maybe a couple bullpen arms, they're able to return a decent number of prospects. Okay, we're going to say, okay, great. This is a positive sign in terms of them being aware of where they are as an organization and what decisions are required come this off season. But then our natural instinct is going to say, next on the docket is Bovlad, all bigger decisions, basted, gauze men. And they're going to have to go and actually make an educated assessment on those players in the winter. But why? There's no impetus really for them to actually do it, especially if they don't make a change in the GM chair. Like who's to say that? He's still here. Ross Atkins is still in charge somehow. There's no, I'm just saying there's no guarantees. That's all I'm trying to say. There are no guarantees as much as we think we have an idea of what should happen or what needs to happen. They clearly view things differently and have a different lens that they are viewing this team through. So who knows? Who knows, Maddie? I'm not trying to, I'm being, I don't think I'm being cynical. I think I'm being realistic. Well, so here's where here's where I look at this from a different perspective. I'm looking at this from an ownership perspective. A spot that I will literally never be in in my whole life. I don't even own my house. I barely own my car. But from an ownership perspective with this group, remember that this company also runs a telecommunications business. And what do we all what do we know about it? It's about perception. And I really do truly believe that they take into consideration what they see on social media. What they hear about this team, whether it be people that call into the show app, the Jay's talk after. Today it will be with Blair and Barker. I believe it's Blair and Barker today. No, it's not. We're going to find out. Oh, the guy. Oh, they get the West Coast games off. That's right. Yes, that's right. They had show that they had yesterday. So it was an afternoon game. It'll be show Ali. But the point being is that I believe that they take into account public perception of where this team is at as it pertains to how the front office is viewed. If this team is, you know, sorry, it's been a rough morning. How the team is perceived, how the front office is. And the other thing is is if they play an entertaining brand of baseball that brings people to the ballpark. And I think you can go through that list and say, a lot of people don't like the front office. I think a lot of people don't like the brand of baseball and the other part, which is the thing that ties it all together is, are you having success on the field? And yes, you've made the playoffs. You've made it as a wild card, but you haven't had any success in doing so. Yeah. So that's where I think the the organizational autopsy, let's call it after this season. I think that is not going to be the decision of the president. That is going to be from ownership saying, what are we doing? How are we doing it? And why have we not grown with a group that was supposed to take the next step? Is it because we've made bad trades like dealing a Taos for Hernandez to the Seattle Mariners for Eric Swanson who's not even on the baseball team right now? Is it moving? You know, a catcher that like we could go down the list of all those things. But the point being is that I think that they're really going to look at this and say where are we at? And what is the what is the best way to keep this thing and this team relevant so that we can continue to get bots in the seats? Maybe we win 85 games next year. But we play a more entertaining brand of baseball and we're in it in August. I know. I think that is where the evaluation goes and which is why I think. And again, with no with no knowledge of the situation, I do wonder if they go to Mark Shapiro and say, okay, you're going to you've done the renovation. You're going to stay here. But if you're going to stay here, it's it's one or both. So the GM goes or both of you go. And I wonder if that's a conversation that might be had as well. Well, I think I mean, I think many people would agree in saying it was probably a necessary conversation that needs to be had because they've been given significant runway both in terms of time and resources. Oh, fine. Financially, they have been given the almost a not a blank check. But hey, they were when it comes to the history of this team as close as you can get to a blank check. Well, hey, for sure ownership, obviously signed off on going after show hail time, of course, and that's a and that's also a business decision. Yeah, there's a lot. That's the anomaly that there's a lot more layers, but that's still a significant investment into this baseball team. This this front office has had the privilege of handing out the biggest contracts in the history of this franchise and not on one occasion. They've literally done it multiple times. They literally one up themselves like every year. Well, think about it. Springer, the biggest free agent signing review was the first one, right? 100 Rio, but he was was he the largest initially? I feel like you believe it or not, the craziest thing to to actually fathom and processes prior to Ross Atkins, Mark Shapiro arriving in Toronto, the biggest free agent signing in franchise history, both in terms of term and dollars was Russell Martin. Russell Martin, who is making like what 10 just over $10 million a season. I think it was. It was like five years, 50 something million dollars along those like 24 five years, 82, 82. Okay, sorry. I vastly underestimated the value of Russell Martin into financial power. A lot of scared all there. Well, you know what? But he was a supplier. Sure, he was. Mind you, that was the largest deal they had ever handed out in free agency. They never mind one up in it. They completely, completely destroyed that threshold because they signed George Springer to a contract that pays him $25 million a season. They had Kevin Gossman walk through the door as a free agent. They've signed Chris Bassett as a free agent. They traded for Barrios and handed him a long term extension. Like this is a front office that has had the privilege and the opportunity to do things that other front offices in the past never frankly had the opportunity to do. Like even we all we all completely we we we praise Alex and thought bliss and rightfully so. It's tenure. If we actually think about it, for the most part, it was mired by plenty of controversy and a lack of performance from the team and them constantly underwhelming. But to his defense in some respect, they didn't they never had the resources. This is a franchise that had to nickel and dime Jose Bautista a little bit after he hit 50 something home runs and set a franchise record and they nickel and dime them on the next contract after that. Like this this organization from an economic standpoint and resources in terms of the allocation of of those resources and how they've supplemented the growth of this organization and this team. It's grown leaps and bounds. They've benefited from that and yet this team has a want to playoff game under their watch. So I think rightfully there should be as you coined it this internal autopsy that occurs once the season is complete and hopefully that there are necessary and appropriate changes that come to pass. Like you know the whoever and I know a lot of people have said this and we've been sort of reiterating this time and again throughout the course of the 2024 season. They have two crucial decisions to make. The biggest decisions that they've are maybe perhaps in this franchise's history or certainly in the last 20 years. You got to decide on two guys in bow and Vlad that were promoted, labeled as cornerstone players for your franchise. You need to make difficult calls on their future. Is Ross Atkins the guy to do that? And I think if you ask most people right now today, the answer is unequivocally no. Frankly, he's had his opportunity. He's had his chance to build this team up. He's had his chance to go and be proactive in potentially signing those guys or one of them to long term deals. It hasn't materialized. Now it's time for somebody else to have a kick at the can and to be in charge of overseeing whatever this next era. This next wave of Blue Jays baseball looks like. Okay, so the hundred or anything it was at the time, I believe it was the highest annual value of a contract. So our crack research team behind the glass, Jeff has a party. I use crack as like the, you know, the operative word here. He's not, he's not doing it. He's not doing it. He's not doing it. I don't know what he does in his personal time, but he's not doing it here. Just for anybody. He's responsible. Jeff is employee. Jeff is a very good man. Yeah. Don't tell him I said that. So the five richest contracts in Blue Jays history, Russell Martin, five years, 82 million, Kevin Gossman, five years, 110 million. This one is a banger. Vernon Wells, seven years, 126 million. Yep. Okay. Jose Brio, seven years, 131 million and George Springer, six years, 150 million. Other notable deals. Jose Bautista, you talk about the nickel and diving five years, 65 million. Think about that. Yeah. The guy hit 54 home runs, whatever it was. Yeah, inflation is real, man. He'd be making bank right now. Could you imagine a prime Jose Bautista in the middle of this lineup surrounded by Beau Vlad, having some actual thump in them? I was going to say, you mean to hit home runs like the guy. Oh, yeah. He's doing right now. That's interesting. I mean, come on. Not even that. Like Bautista's not even you can't hold a candle in terms of comparing those cars, right? Of course. Of course. But the guy routinely was 40 and a hundred every year. This team doesn't have that. They haven't had that for years. Here's here's another one. Alex Rios, seven year, 69.8 million. And then a hundred or you four years, 80 million. So he's the sixth highest in terms of total contract value. So the point, the point being is that this front office has been given, like you said, it's been giving the resource, given the resources to make things happen. March to head upstairs and actually propose these things, which is something in the past. I know, you know, anybody will tell you wasn't always the case. Well, here, and here's the biggest thing to all of this is that they have been given and you kind of alluded to it with in terms of Bow and Vlad. They've been given this thing called time. They have been able to strip the roster down, rebuild the farm system and strip it down again. And what do you have to show for it? No playoff wins. That to me is and they've been here how many years now? So this is six for Shapiro. This is number season number 10 because he came in in 2015. Right. Okay. And for Ross, this is his ninth year. Right. Geez, I was having a man. It doesn't feel like it's been that long way. Yeah, you're right. Ben Nicholson Smith did a deep dive the other day on their draft history and how porous it is. This is going to be Sunday because Sunday is the MLB draft. Yep. Round one. Jase of the 20th overall pick. I'll take another college pitcher. And this is Ross's ninth draft in charge, although technically speaking, it's really eight because in 2016 he arrived late and all the support staff from the scouting department remained in place. That draft produced bow. It produced Kevin Bizio bow was a successful story because he wasn't a first round pick. And and there was some concern that they may not be able to sign him. Well, and and the iron the great irony in all of this, Matty, is that within months after that draft concludes and what has unequivocally been the most successful draft for this team under the stewardship of Ross Atkins, he decided to completely overhaul the scouting department and what have they had to show for it since their most successful draft pick. And they'd certainly deserve credit for this one is Alec Manoa. But besides Alec Manoa, and mind you, they're they're drafting my COVID from COVID onwards is a little different. But prior to COVID for the first what three four drafts that they had, you're drafting 41 players every year. Yeah, 41 players every single year. And they they are producing. I mean, it's marginal. How many of those guys are even touching the majors? Never mind being a player. I was gonna say for just watching the brought making an impact. Yeah. Right. It's it's pretty damning. It really is. Yeah, it's good. So I guess that kind of leads to like, when we talk about how deep these cuts go, even if heading into next year, and I made this point yesterday on on sports net today, you are maybe I made it off here. I can't remember. Everything's a blur. I usually say my best things off the air. No, the the thing is next like you cannot if you are this organization and trying to sell tickets. Yeah, you cannot go into next year without one or both of flatty and bow. And I don't and I think the bow thing that that that ship to me has sailed already. Like he's even though he's gonna finish the year here. Yeah, he's he's probably out the door. Yeah, I feel similarly about that flatty wants to be here. You know, and I was thought I was talking to Chris LaRue about this yesterday. And there's a lot of consternation about flatty and how he conducts himself in the dugout when things aren't going well. And he's like, I want that guy on my team. I want happy people because you know what? Baseball's hard. It's a grind. And and to have like, you know, even even he talked about George Springer, like George Springer is still the leader on this baseball team, one of a few. But you see how when George Springer starts to go, how the engine starts to run a little bit better for sure. And the engine being the offense. And so like having these guys who aren't sulking, who are because that just brings everybody else down, especially when you are looked at as you know, one of the best players on his team, certainly in George Springer's case, the highest paid player on this team. But then you see like some of the body language from Boba Shen. It's it's it's so like it's almost as if he's already gone. Yeah, why is flatty is like, yes, still in it. And and also let's give credit to the guy because whenever whenever it comes to Vladi, we look at all he's so he's more concerned about the home run jacket and he's more concerned about laughing and the dugout and playing jokes and this and that and blah, blah, blah. Well, guess what? It's time to give the man his flowers now because he has been their best hitter by a pretty decent margin. Okay. Yeah. So maybe maybe there is because I also went back and forth on the idea of maybe not bringing either of them back. But Vladi, you're a dream is 25 years old. Yep. And he wants to be here. Yep. And he is among the if we're talking all around players as a first baseman, he is among the six, seven best in baseball. He's probably in the top five, even this version of him that we we consider to be a semi disappointment. I know. The 2021 season screwed him. Oh, and the and the and this vision of him. If his if his 21 2021 season happened in year five or six, our perception would be vastly different. Well, we'd be saying, how is he not an extension? Well, that already. But but on top of that, if we if he had, let's say his career start started in the same fashion, but year three was 35 homers, 100 RBI, 280 hitter. We'd be saying, okay, here we go. Yeah, right next year, it's, you know, 26 and 94 like it was last. You say, okay, you know, it wasn't great, but it was okay. But then imagine now it's the 40 plus 300. You're saying he's one of those players in baseball. Right. But that with that defense, that kind of the that one outlier season, coupled with the hype of what he was as a prospect, really, really did a number on him in terms of certainly elevating him to a level where he was regarded as one of the best young players in the sport. And then here domestically, within our own city in Toronto among Jay's fans, it's like, okay, there's our generational hitter. Yeah, there it is. And I've made this point numerous times. It's okay if he's not that. It's okay. If he's still an above average hitter, that's fine. But clearly, the right there's he's one of nine in that lineup. It's a team game. Yeah, it's like football, you know, and frankly, baseball might be even more of a team sport than football because in football, you can have a quarterback touching this the ball every snap. In baseball, you're only stepping up into the box. If you're fortunate enough, four times a game. So the level of impact you can make, it's there, but it's not as significant on the overall outcome. You need people that are going to complement and supplement you within that lineup. So it shouldn't be Vlad's fault that this year, he's a 290 hitter with 13 homers and the power has sort of dissipated a little bit. But on balance, when you compare him to other first baseman, you take a look around Major League Baseball and the offensive environment in which he's doing this, he's actually been fine. He's been fine, right? But we don't have that perception. We don't have that for whatever reason, that idea of him anymore as still a very, very high end elite player, which he is. And he's not just good, even like, even if we want to say, I know defensive first base is a bit of a trivial thing, but he is still a go glove worthy and caliber player at first base as a defender. That factors into his position and his job and his performance. Could I do with him not fraternizing all the time with opponent? Yes, I've admitted that time and again, I hate that, right? I hate that. But if that's the worst thing about the guy, then right? That says something. And with bow to your point, I can't remember if it was with Ben or with Gunnar last week, I actually pointed to this and I raised them. And I thought maybe it's a silly dumb observation, but I was watching a game and I had that exact same, that exact same thought, Matt, is it not? Aren't there times where you just look at him and you feel like he's disinterested or like his mind has wandered elsewhere? Like, at a certain point, if you're really struggling, you're in this funk, you haven't homered in more than a month and a half at this point. I'm sure he cares, obviously, and he wants to perform. But have we seen any adjustment, any change, any shift in how he's trying to get himself out of this rut? No, we see the same guy who looks podium day in day out, who looks dissatisfied day in day out. I know that's always kind of been part of his shtick and who he is. But it's hard not to notice it more, especially when the guy is struggling. >> Yeah. >> And the body language is very noticeable. I feel like it does tell a story. >> I think it does and he's frustrated with the way the season is gone. There's no question about that. From a team perspective, and I'm sure from an individual perspective, but, and this is not, I'm not even trying to poo poo Boboshette here, because at the end of the day, he's still a very good baseball player. We're not going to forget the talent hasn't gone anywhere. But Boboshette's also looking at this situation and saying, I can walk right to free agency, and I'm going to make a boatload of money. >> Not if you hit 240 this year and next year, and the power disappears entirely. >> But here's the only thing that I will say, because remember, there's ego involved in these decisions made by teams, specifically the front office, GMs, presidents, whatever. They believe that this guy is going to do something different here. That's always the case, because they look at the talent level and it would be the same question, the same thing for Vladimir Guru Jr. If we surround him with better hitters, he's going to hit 35 bombs. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, and I think that's the logic with Boboshette. And he's at a premium position. So, when you have offensive ability at a premium position, which is shortstop, guess what? You're going to make bank. So, I think he's probably looking at it and saying, like, yeah, I need to pick up my game here, but I can walk right to free agency and I'm going to make $200 million. And it's probably in the cards, yeah. >> And so, that's why I'm saying like, he's looking at this situation and saying, okay, it's not going great, but I've got this in my back pocket, or I'm going to get traded and I'm going to go to the Dodgers, or I'm going to go to the Yankees and I'm going to be surrounded by better players. And my numbers are going to go like, I think that is, I think everything is on the table here for him. So, there's less of a concern about the next contract. That's what that's, from my perch, that's what it kind of looks like to me. >> His mind is a little preoccupied. >> It does feel that way. >> It is preoccupied. >> And there may be other things going on that we don't know a little. >> Yeah, sure. >> We're not in the club house. We don't know what- >> We don't reach everything. >> So, we don't know. >> Yeah. >> But the body language, like you know you're on camera all the time. Not that I think these guys care. But there is, you've seen the look, and it's not a good one. We'll see what happens. It's going to be very interesting. Blue Jays open up another new series tonight in Arizona. You can watch it on Sportsnet and listen to it right here. On Sportsnet 590, the fan three game weekend set with the D-Backs, Yariel Rodriguez versus Ryan Nelson. First pitch of chase field schedule for 9.40 PM. Blue Jays central teeed up on TV starting at 9. And you can listen to Jay's talk after the game on radio. When we come back, the Canadian men's national soccer team back at it tomorrow against Uruguay. And Uruguay will be with Darwin Nunez. There will be no repercussions as there shouldn't be when you are protecting a family member, especially in a situation like that. But it's going to be very interesting. What does it all mean? We're going to talk about that. When we come back, it's the fan morning show with Matt Marchesi and Deniali Franceski. You're listening on Sportsnet 590, the fan. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, we're barely standing, but we're going to get through it. It's a fan morning show. Matt Marchesi, Deniali Franceski here with you. And Elton John, so good. Oh, that's who it is. Yeah, I know you're not. I know, John, I know, I know, I know, you know, Elton John is, but did you know that it was him? Yeah, because you're, I know you're not a music. I don't, I don't, I don't say that disparagingly. No, no, this one, I was fully aware. Okay. Yes. He's so good. Canada takes on Uruguay for the third place game at the Copa America tomorrow night. And, you know, the conversation has become for a lot of people. Well, what does this, like, does it mean something for Canada to win this game tomorrow night? And I believe like, there's multiple reasons why it does. One is there is a windfall of cash that goes the, the federation's way for winning. Bingo. There is one thing that we can say about Canadian soccer, Canada soccer, is that, well, they haven't spent the money very wisely over the last little bit. So a windfall of cash would be great for the entire program. But the one thing that I look at, because there is, and I have, I have two players in mind when I speak about this. What does a result like this, and then qualifying for the World Cup on your own accord and not just getting in because you were a host. And having success at the Copa America, with this younger group that you have, what does it mean for dual nationals? And maybe the decision to go or not go to play for Canada. And so there are two players that I had in mind. One is Daniel Jefferson, who plays for Bournemouth. He's a 20 year old striker. He was highly thought of. He's never represented Canada, but he is eligible because he was born in Oakville. He's a player that would probably help this group. And again, playing on the national team and getting those opportunities because they need something behind Jonathan David and Kyle Laren, especially behind Kyle Laren, because he is getting older. The other guy that I have in mind is Luca Coliosho, who is of Italian that he was born in Italy. I believe his mother is- It's from the motherland side of Mo Pomer, I'm sure. Yeah, seriously. His, although they didn't fare very well either. But he's eligible to play for, and I don't remember how, but he's eligible to play for Canada, Italy, or the United States. Wow. So he has options. Now, he's only represented Italy at the youth levels. But how much do the, I wonder how much, and we'll never know. We'll ask Craig Forrest when he joins us in the final hour of the program about this conversation surrounding dual nationals. What are the biggest contributing factors to a player choosing one or the other? Because if you are Daniel Jefferson, the other country that he can play for is England. If you're Daniel Jefferson, are you really getting into the English national team? Do you believe that that's going to happen? Are you good enough? Are you good enough? And there have been cases where guys that, they don't go at 20 years old. That's fine. And they go a little bit later. But I also wonder how much they look at it and say, look at the success they had at this tournament. They qualified for a World Cup on their own accord. And now they're going to have World Cup Soccer in 2026. And by the way, you're still going to have the Gold Cup. So you're going to have plenty of international opportunities here. That's where I wonder what this type of result means for guys like that. Something I hadn't really considered. I think that's a very, very interesting point that you raise. There's a lot of focus in the aftermath of what Canada has done in this tournament up to this point. And after the lost Argentina, where we heard players, we heard Jesse Marsh devote a lot of attention, direct a lot of energy towards the development of younger players domestically in this country through, you know, namely the Canadian Premier League and what that means and having that pathway, that stream of consciousness for that clear stream that you can expand the pool of talent that you have to pick from. But that, what you hit on there is important because, and I don't want to say it's a shortcut, but there is an opportunity there to potentially attract quality players that are ready to contribute in a more immediate fashion. By going that route and finding guys who are, whether it's some vague connection to Canada, or they actually. We don't care. Look at you all. But that's my point. It's like, I mean, I remember, you know, Japan had Lars Neupar play for them at the World Baseball Classic. He was the starting world for that, isn't it? It's like, the biggest of vague tie-ins at the World Baseball Classic. You're like, who? Wait, how? How did Marcus Schrowman pitch for the United States? And then go pitch for was a Puerto Rico? How did that what? That adds up or the Dominican? I can't remember who we pitch for at the most recent World Baseball Classic. It's one of those two countries. That's actually really important. And it's a useful tool. It's essentially the equivalent of recruiting. How well are you going to recruit? Can you go out there and take those, as you said, the dual nationals, the guys that have flexibility based on where either where they were born or where they grew up or having family with familial ties to a particular nation, can you convert those? And over the years, for decades now, Canada has routinely lost that battle. Canada has always lost that battle, in fact, when it comes to anybody they thought they might have an opportunity to retain, keep in their system, and is worth a damn, they've all walked away. And I know there was this conversation actually a few years ago as it pertains to Ishmael Kone, when he was a young player coming through the system and everybody was sort of earmarking him as, okay, this guy could be something. And John Herman was very proactive in convincing him, persuading him to make sure he stayed on board with this program. That's got to happen a lot. I think you're going to need fewer of those conversations of more domestic players. Like, I think that is going to hopefully that you're not going to see as many of those. Like, we're not going to have defectors going from born in Canada, raised in Canada, played in the system, and all of a sudden now as they get older, they're going to leave. But now you got to try and recruit. Let's see if Jesse Marsh can recruit. I think that's a really interesting point that you raise. And something that kind of gets overlooked in all of this, because it is a factor and it is a pathway for them to actually get better in a meaningful way in a shorter period of time that will impact their team in a more appreciable manner over the next couple of years as they prepare for a world cup where there will be expectations after what they did in this tournament. >> So as we look at Luca Coleo show, apparently Spoletti has confirmed that he does have interest in the player. >> Yeah, but who's going to play for Spoletti? Nobody's going to want to play for Spoletti. >> Well, okay, so now, so now this is, but you say that like half jokingly, but in the same breath, when you look at the Canadian team and what they have done in this tournament when we talk about, even before that, yeah, I know the Netherlands game is, you know, that's the first game under Jesse Marsh, and they made the adjustments. But the Drew France, they played top against Argentina twice. They advanced to the semis to the co-op America. If they won't beat Uruguay, who's among the 15 best teams in the world, or at least again, maybe it goes to penalties, whatever, but the game is close. How does that, how do you look at that if you are a player? Let's say it is a guy like Coleo show who, you know, can go play for Italy or the US. Is the US really tangibly better than Canada at this point? >> No. >> No. >> Are the Italians tangibly better? >> No, I know, I hate to say this. The answer is no. >> So this is, so this is, like when you look at this result and then say, Italy's not even guaranteed to get to the World Cup, because God knows they've missed the last two, jerks. I will still never forgive, I will still never forgive the Italian national team for not getting to the World Cup when I was in Italy in 2018. That would have been an entirely different trip. Couldn't do it, couldn't get it done. What a shock. But that's where this conversation maybe changes a little bit in that they look at this program and say, look at the direction that they're going. The other thing that I think is very intriguing is how they play under Jesse Marsh in terms of the style. It looks like it's a lot more fun to play that style than what we've seen in previous iterations. Less so that John Hurdman style of play. But even before that, it was like, let's just sit back and hope for ties. >> If I could jump in on that point quickly, is it not more enjoyable to watch Canada play than it is to watch this current permutation of Italy? For example, that's a factor. I don't know how much of a factor, I'm just saying it's a factor. Like also for a player, for certain players, you're thinking about path of least resistance in terms of getting opportunity. And frankly, I know there's just a larger pool that the Italians have to select from than Canada. So if you're somebody that's sort of like in this instance, it makes sense. If you're on the fence, you could probably envision it a way in which you can go from being a young player, transitioning, breaking into the program, to all of a sudden, now you can sort of envision yourself playing an actual meaningful role on the national team. Whereas I think that roadmap is not as clear. It's a little bit more murky when you're playing for a country like Italy. And the same could be said for England, Portugal, Spain, right? Like a lot of these nations where the depth of talent is vast. And the pool is just, frankly, it's just larger because they have more people playing the sport at a high level. So that is another benefit for potential dual nationals to have the opportunity where they can easily jump in and see a pathway, sort of develop and materialize to where they can actually, maybe instead of, yeah, you're not wearing the Italian jersey. But maybe you end up playing the Italians, but you're actually on the pitch for the game. There is something to that opportunity, man. It's all about opportunity. Where is the opportunity going to come from? And if it happens to be in a Canadian jersey, then why not? Why not? The other thing that I do wonder is how people look at, like guys that have committed to other countries and where they believe they are now, and looking at Canada and saying, boy, did I make a mistake? There's two players that I have in mind specifically. One is Marcelo Flores, who committed to Mexico had that turnout for you. He plies his trade for Tigris, but he was in the Arsenal system. And the other one, which is a guy that would be a wonderful addition to this team, is, or is it here? I think you're going with this tomorrow? No. Oh, I thought you were going for Kyle tomorrow. Okay. There's another one too. Born in Calgary, plies is traded for AC Milan, capped by England, has played five games. Yeah. And he's 26 years old. And do you think he's breaking up that that center back? You think he's playing over John Stone's anytime soon? Don't think so. No, he's not playing over Joe Gomez at this point. Yeah. Yeah. No. So like he didn't even make the hero. Here's an interesting example to now at different timing. But I do know Brian Christante from the Italian national team has the Canadian connection. And he he was another one that when push came to shove and he had to make a decision chose Italy, mind you, in hindsight, it probably paid off for him because he wins the euro. He was on the team. But if you talk about opportunity and, you know, the role, like that guy in a Canadian uniform would have been heralded as a God, but he would have been celebrated beyond measure and glorified as the greatest thing since sliced bread that this country has ever seen on a soccer pitch, because that's the quality of player that he is. But he kind of gets lost in the shuffle for a team like the Italians that are obviously flush with talent, specifically midfield, terrible. We know they can't produce strikers. But that that's an area where they have a lot of depth. And he's just a guy. Whereas, you know, part of the equation of what does it mean for my brand? What does it mean for my profile? Imagine you're you're you're you're you're a you're a fish in a big pond. But now you were to come here and you are the fish in the smaller pond. Yeah, that that makes a big difference in elevating your profile as an athlete overall. I that's where I think this is big. We can talk about the financial windfall. We can talk about the success that they've we can talk about the players that have played and what we've learned about them. What we even even the guys that have been bit players but have impressed in their limited time, like a tanning, all he will say. Yeah, or an Ali Ahmed who I thought those two guys are very impactful against Argentina coming off the bench. I believe that both of them are going to be starting tomorrow. Likewise, especially all it was say, because he's actually been among the strikers. The guy who's probably created the most, or at least been the most dangerous, because he's fast. He's on a very good goal scoring clip for Minnesota before he came to to play Africa. And that was a dual national as well. I believe he could have played for Nigeria. And so I think this means something because I don't think there's any shame and all this guy has a choice between. I think that's a I think that's a feather in your cap. If you can convince these guys who have like less so about a guy playing for Nigeria and no disrespect to the Nigeria national team. But we're talking about comparing it to England or Italy, although even that feels like more credit. But still, so to have that happen, that's where I wonder how big of a deal this is. And well, like I said, we'll talk to you first about that conversation later. I don't think that Craig was eligible to play anywhere else. But this is a guy who's had success with the national program. And you know, I am very curious to see what this all means because what do I always say? If you have players playing in the top five leagues in Europe, you're playing against very good competition all the time. Now you have to play because that's the other thing for guys like Schaffelberg, for even a Max Crippo, for go down the list. Yeah, ahead of the World Cup in two years, these guys have to be playing every week. That is a must even a guy like Tejan Buchanan. It's great for him to be at Inter Milan. It's one of the most prestigious clubs in Italy. Yep. Maybe the most prestigious them in an AC Milan. Well, me are sorry, UVA as well in that conversation, duh, but that's where if you are not playing, it doesn't matter what team you're on because you're not going to be fit. And I think that was Buchanan's problem in this tournament. He didn't play enough. And then when he finally got into a groove in the second half of the third game, I think it was the Chile game. Then he gets hurt. He's impactful. And then he gets hurt. So you got to be playing ahead of these big tournaments. You have to be. We're going to take a break. When we come back, I can't wait for this next block. I know, I know I'm, you know, I'm not even going to undersell this. It's Peter Drury from Sky Sports and NBC and NBC Sports. This guy is one of the great play-by-play, or as they refer to him in England commentators of the beautiful game. One of the greatest broadcasters that we've ever seen in terms of play-by-play. He's got fantastic calls, his call of England getting to the Euro final was magical. And Peter Drury will join us in the next block. We'll talk about that Euro Cup final, which goes Sunday between England and Spain. It's going to be a really fun game. I hope, I hope that's what you pray for. I don't care who wins, but you want a good game. It will be good. It'll be a good game. It'll be compelling. It'll be very compelling. It's coming home. Is it? We're going to find out. Peter Drury's next. This is the fan morning show. Matt Marquesi, Danieli Franceski, you're listening on SportsNet 590, the fan.
