[MUSIC PLAYING] Main morning show sports at 5.9 in the fan bed. And it's Danieli Franceski, filling in for Brent Gunning. Next week, Major League Baseball all-star break. The just like the quintessential slowest sports week of the year, like there's just no question. The day after the all-star game is just nothing happening. So it's a time of the year where a lot of people take vacation, myself included. Yeah. Danieli, you'll be grinding. Yeah, don't remind me. Yeah, I'll be here. Let's talk to our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. So I'll be going to a cottage. Our next guest, our insider, Blake Murphy, host of Blue Jays Talk Plus. Also getting away as is, man, you've earned the right, of course, with how much you're grinding. And again, this is when people take the time off. I just found out seconds ago, you're going to a cottage, again, close proximity to me. Yeah, I have to check at the break when we're done here and see just how close. I might have to change plans here. Yeah, buddy. Buddy, let's get together. Let's do-- let's rent a jet ski together. Let's go-- Oh, yeah. Yeah. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Two-man jet ski. Yeah, LeBron, Mellow, Chris Paul, D. Wade. We'll get the whole 590 crew up there. That's forever iconic. That is forever iconic. And we can't escape that, like, you know that. We can't escape that, those comparisons and that connection. OK, I guess, you know, I'm ventiluted to this. Even off air, he mentioned it. I mean, what's it like having to do two hours a day on this team and try to come up with fresh things and different things to talk about when it feels like, at times, you know, you're kind of grasping at straws. And we're all almost in this holding pattern where it's leading up to the inevitability of whatever transpires on July 30th. Yeah, the inevitability is kind of the big thing. And, look, yeah, two hours. Trying to find 10 hours a week of stuff to talk about. It's still-- it's better than a real job. Yeah, it's just definitely an accurate thing to say there. But it is tough. And you've had a real job, too, which is like-- I have had a real job. When I say that, I'm like, in theory, because I've never really had a real job. But yeah, you know what it's like in those salt mines. No, I can tell you what happens if you have a real job is you spend all your time, even if the team is bad, trying to read about the team or, in my case, book fake meetings to write about the team. Yeah, oh, I'm in a meeting room for two hours. Nobody bothered me. I'm on the phone with Japan. Yeah, no. Just on bang wraps, grinding stuff out. I mean, look, July is fine, right? Like any time there's a lull in game stuff to talk about, we could just do trade slot for the next couple of weeks. It's going to be more August and September. And you guys know what I like to do on the show. Like, I care about the kind of more granular stuff. You know, what's gone into the George Springer turn around. Why has, I mean, it certainly didn't work out less. And why is Bowdoin France is trying to add a new pitch? Things like that. But when the team is as bad and there's no, like those things feel like they matter way less. And certainly it feels like the audience cares less about those micro things. So we'll see. August and September might just have to zoom out and be kind of like MLB talk plus. Really lean into the plus in the title. I know, so like the saving grace was always going to be we'll look at the young fellas. Yeah, they're all here. Relevus Martinez ain't, but he ain't coming back. And now like Ricky Tiedemann's not even going to be here. Who knows what, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here, but you're talking about forearm tightness for a guy that was coming off forearm tightness, who has a history of forearm tightness, who has like a career high in innings of like 70. And like another professional kick of the can where it's like he's going, his development stunted yet again. Like honestly, that was more devastating than almost anything not the relevance thing was pretty devastating. But as far as like the excitement of watching one guy the second half of the season, we don't even get that. Maybe that's brutal. Dude, I had Jeff Ponce of Baseball America on my show this week and he had said, like Baseball America has been very high on Ricky Tiedemann. Like I know he was a third round pick, but like almost immediately when he got to affiliated ball, all the scouting people were like, yeah, he's a dude. The stuff is unbelievable. You know, he added that bit of velocity and things like that. And Jeff told me like he was his favorite left handed pitching prospect in all of baseball, not in the J system. And like they would have had him in the twenties or thirties in their overall top 100 ranking had he pitched at all. But at this point, like, I mean, he's still on there. He's fallen into the seventies or eighties now in their mid season update here because he hasn't pitched much. Like, I don't know, I don't know how you can project what that looks like. And we went through this kind of with Nate Pearson a few years back like 2017, 2018 too. And he was at least pitching. And then there were like, well, he's also not actually that good kind of elements. Teethom has still been good when he pitches. And then the man, the kind of like kick when they're down of Adam Macko also hits the aisle this week. And that was probably, yeah, that was probably like the next guy up if you were looking at New Hampshire. Yeah. And like pitching well, and I heard rumblings, you know, hey, late in the season, they're going to try him a buffalo and see how he does there. But he's a guy too that they've they've had to be cautious building up and you know, even this year he started, he was pitching like every, every six or seventh day, not every fifth day to make, to be aware of that kind of thing. So I mean, with Teethom and I don't know what you even do, like if this ends up being a seven day I'll stand cool, but like the last time there was forum tightness, it ended up being over a month. The owner nerve impingement or whatever it was ended up being over a month. I just don't know at this point, and like I'm not a doctor, but any time a guy has the same kind of elbow issue over and over again, you start like with Jordan Romano, his wasn't TJ, but you know, he eventually needed to undergo surgery because something's going on in there that your elbow and your forum keep getting sore over and over again. So I don't know, I just I don't know how you go into 2025, especially in the scenario where like we everyone keeps talking about where they trade off at this deadline, but the idea is to be competitive again next year. Yeah. I don't know how you like comfortably pencil rookie Teethom and in for any of that. Like I think that's a hey, if he's around and healthy and good, that's gravy. I don't think you can plan as if he's a part of the plans right now. I completely agree. I think ideally part of what could have factored into him being in that equation is if he would have actually showed up and pitched this year for the Toronto Blue Jays. Now that clearly that's probably not going to happen. We can't sit here and have any assumptions of what he could be, could not even, never mind what he is, but what he could be for them in 2025, that would be silly. And presumptuous of us to even have that thought or that discussion. And also he is like the trade value is very minimal at this point because even though he's a great prospect, like you'd have to like get him into your facility and have your doctors like dig around in that thing to have any level of confidence, right? I think what's fascinating in terms of him specifically is well, what do you do next? Like because there's a history here and this continues to happen. Does it point to something that he's doing wrong, that the Jays have overlooked or what is the solution here? Does it entail? And this is where even if you wanted to dangle him as a trade chip for whatever reason, the team that is acquiring him would have to do some serious inventory on trying to figure out, okay, why does this keep happening? Is there something we can fix, whether that's mechanical or his repertoire, the way in which he's being deployed? I don't know. But something that we can actually figure out tangibly to help prevent this from happening in the future. And I wonder if those discussion, I'm sure those discussions are probably happening. - Bays, they just turn to stop throwing baseballs at high velocity. - No, it's not, it is a league wide thing. But yeah, I mean, when it's him, Bariara, Maco and Maraudis all on the aisle at the same time, I get where you're going out here. - Also, I do think the answer is just like, pictures get hurt at times. - They do, and not to cut you off there on your point. But like, with Nate Pearson, the one thing that was always most compelling about him is he threw hard. That's it, that was what it was. And so what made him that preeminent prospect in the system for the Blue Jays, and had everybody gushing over the potential, is because he threw insanely hard, which we know isn't sustainable. But in Tiedemann's case, it's not like he's throwing 98, 99 miles an hour as a starter. He's not, he's 693, Ben, 93 miles an hour. - I mean, in the brief spring training start that we saw from him was that this year or last year, anyways, I saw him upper 90s in that start. Like he has capable. - Yeah, they won him around 95, like when he preaches and they, like I think that would be the target. And you know, yesterday I think he was, yeah, 93, 94 before he came out of that game. - Which might have been telling. - Yeah, yeah, like I think he's a guy who they project to throw like 95 in time. But to your point, Daniel, they like, yeah, it's not 101, right? It's not your arm falling off. I mean, he does have really sharp break on his pitches and things like that. I think it's just, man, it's, it's so, and like this is why I have begrudging respect for the pirates finally doing like a smart thing. I'm like, yeah, just rush ball schemes, whatever. - Yeah, of course. - You don't, like, and this is, this is overly nihilistic or defeatist, but like a lot, some pitching prospects are only gonna have so many bullets in that arm. - Of course. Like, do you remember when the Nationals sat down, Steven Strasburg? And then it's like, what do you, and like, it's like, okay, we're gonna protect him and maybe he doesn't pitch in a playoff race, maybe he doesn't pitch in the playoffs to save him for what? They did get a World Series MVP. Like he still blew up, like not long after, like with some pitcher types and some pitchers, you only got so much in there. - Of course. - I'm not saying Tiedemann should have been in the Major League, but I think generally, - Oh, I think like if he had any level of success, like he had only took, if he maybe made two more starts in Buffalo, he was gonna be in the Major League. I can almost err, - Because you're gonna have Kakuchi backfill, right? Like if he gets dealt with the deadline, you're not gonna bullpen day at every fifth day of the rest of the season. You're just gonna throw an Andrew Bash against the wall or something like that and see what's there. But yeah, it would have been Tiedemann. So, I don't know. It's, some of these guys might only have so many bullets in there. So, I don't know, maybe it's a case where, I know this kind of contradicts what I just said about, you can't pencil him in for 2025, but maybe if he shows any sort of capability heading into 2025, you just put him in there because you don't know how long the arms are gonna hold up. - Honestly, I wouldn't even put like an innings limit. Whatever he can give you at whatever timeframe he can give you it, I would like to see it. I mean, and boy, he was the one guy that this front office could point to when you look at their minor league track record or their draft track record with the draft coming up on Sunday where it's like, well at least we got, we got Rick and Tiedemann. Don't forget about Rick and Tiedemann. - Yeah. - I mean, I outlayed the seven starters in Buffalo that have made the most starts this season. It's outrageous. - Is Andrew Bash number one? - Andrew Bash is number one. So, he's got a nice little 3, 6, 9 here, right? With a walks per nine to four and a half. - He also, so Enosaris of the athletic told me that. So, basically there's this trend in baseball right now where teams are not sending their top pitching prospects to AAA until at least they've had a taste of the major leagues. And this isn't every organization, but like the Mariners often keep their guys in AA. The Brewers, the twins, like there are some teams that will do that. And because of that, like by Enos stuff plus metric, like almost nobody in AAA has what you'd consider good stuff. And Bash is one of the only guys. All right. But he's also like a 27-year-old mom pro. - I'm just gonna say, yeah, okay. Maybe I shouldn't discount Andrew Bash, but like again, like just the, you don't, you have to go like one stat column over to realize that he's walking everybody and be like, oh yeah, probably not good. - Yeah. - Chad Dallas, the array of almost seven. Paolo Espino, a guy, five ERA. Aaron Sanchez still making a go of it with an ERA approaching 11. Yariel Rodriguez has started seven times. He's good. And that was good. They signed him as, yeah. A guy that had a professional track record. - Not great that he's up there on your starters list when they were just rehab assignments. - No kidding. - Bo Salzer, Troy Watson. - It's Ben Nicholson Smith's story on sports.js. - Outstanding. - Ben and I, so not to give too much of the process away, but Ben and I had talked about that a little bit on my show at one point. And then we kind of started going through and this was a couple of weeks ago now. And it was so bleak. And like we even initially have been like, yeah, they get credit for some of the international signings and stuff like that because of Kirk and whoever. And then like, we actually don't fit on the numbers. It's not that encouraging. Obviously for Elvis, turns out that could look a certain way. Yario, I don't, I think you consider him a pro free agent, not an international signing. But yeah, it's bleak, man. And that 2016 draft class where they got basically all, all the non-monoa value they've gotten out of the draft was like debatably the old regime. Because you're not going to over the course of half a season overhaul your entire scouting department and start from scratch, start from scratch on the draft. So it's a, yeah, it's pretty bleak. And like the churn in the scouting director chair, the churn in like, oh, what, like the fact that, and I shouldn't say this because Shane Farrell's on my show tomorrow, but he does that presser yesterday and he gets asked like, what's the strength? And like it's all process side stuff. There's no like, well, this is the result. >> Something definitive. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And if there was any, what result can he point to? >> I mean, and this is like, this is not the thing you want to hang your hat on. But the one thing that actually have done well is like these swing decision plus bath to ball quick through the minors and college batters. They have done a good job of the Alan Roden, Josh Cosevic, like the Davis Schneider Spencer Horwitz type. And they've done a good job of those guys. But those guys are like bench pieces. Like it's important to hit on them still. But like none of those guys are like really changing the ceiling of your team unless they just like somehow add 25 home run power at some point. >> I mean, if you look at this, this speaks to the early round picks and obviously think of even the top prospects in the system, any of them first round picks. Like Manoa obviously at a point was a first round pick. He comes up, he immediately hits. He delivers and even if heck, even if we don't really see Alec Manoa ever again, I would still consider that a success because he was a saw young candidate. And deservedly so. I think if we look at the other first round picks, the collection of guys that they drafted, including even 2016 where it was TJ, so like who else? And it's not fair to include, I would say, like Arjun Namala in there because he's obviously really young. >> And he's on fire right now, which is great. >> They took him out of the system, right? >> So yeah, they over promoted him. So they started him at the Needon this year, which like he was the youngest player in the league. He would be almost the youngest player in this draft coming up on Sunday. So they pushed him to Denidin instead of having him play extended spring training. He really struggled. They pulled him out to go on the development list where you're just like getting like extended spring training again basically. And then he went to the complex league for like a pseudo rehab assignment. And ever since then, he's just been crushing. >> Yeah, but he had two doubles and a walk again last night. >> But now he's got Joey Votto hitting behind him, right? So like he's got line of protection. >> Yes, yeah, you can't, you have to pitch to Arjun Namala because Joey Votto will work a nine pitch out behind you. >> Four year old Joey Votto, my God. No, but anyway, back to the point of the first round picks. >> Yeah, it's, that's where you're supposed to hit on the, on the high upside guys. And evidently, based on where they currently are and the guys that you are, we refer to as quote unquote, the core at this particular point in time, that hasn't been the case. And maybe that is in a way, one, and I know people will point to a lot of the decisions as it relates to trades, free agent signings or non free agent signings for that matter. But maybe the biggest indictment on what this, this sort of era has been is the fact that they were brought in with the intention of sort of replenishing that system. And they have seemingly failed to do so to the greatest extent possible. >> Benny dropping the Mark Shapiro quote in there. >> That was great. >> Yeah, there are five blanks and then you look and you just named five blanks. Like no disrespect to like you, Salsa. >> No, and Troy Watson, but those guys are supposed to be like multi-inning bullpen guys at Triple A. Like you don't happen to know, I wouldn't expect you to know who the blanks were, 'cause I would, I need to go back in 2015 and find out who the, the Buffalo Bisons starters that he was referring to. Like, 'cause clearly they actually had human beings occupying those spots, but who they were, are you looking it up right now? >> Yeah, I, if you, if you finish this question, I will find it for you. >> Yeah, I mean, I was gonna move off of this topic because I've done it a lot today. But yeah, it deserves repeating that it's insane because it's, all we're looking for here is hope for this, this team, right? And it exists in a way in Spencer Horowitz who've, who men, it's, he views himself offensively differently as a second baseman. I view him entirely differently if he's a capable second baseman. >> Okay, so you've got it now? >> It's so good. So Randy Wolf started the most games for that Triple A team at age 38. So it's a good player. >> Scott, I coulda, coulda, coulda, helped in a pinch. >> Scott Copeland, no recollection of him. >> I think he pitched in the Major Links for the Blue Jays. >> Yeah, at some point probably. >> I think he's a singer baller. >> All right. >> Yeah, he had, you'll be more familiar with these next few weeks. >> Daniel Norris at 22 at the time. >> Yeah, sure. >> Andrew Albers who obviously made it as a reliever at one point. Jeff Francis, former top prospect Chad Jenkins. >> Okay. >> Todd Redmond. >> Todd Redmond was like valuable for the team for a bit. Felix DuBrant, Matt Boyd, Philippe Omont started a couple games. >> Honestly, all of those guys are better than everybody. But Mr. Bash. >> Austin Beaten Dierks, who's now a pitching coach in the system. >> Yeah. >> All sorts of blanks there. But is that any different than what we just read out for this trip later? >> Literally better. >> That's probably better. >> Yeah, it's not good. >> It's a source of confidence there. >> So, okay, well, I wanna talk to you about Team Canada and then the first exhibition game yesterday about the United States in just a second. But like before we move off of Blue Jays. 'Cause yeah, the trade deadlines approaching and barring something totally unforeseen and counter to what every insider is saying, including you who is our insider today. The Blue Jays are only gonna look at selling off the pending free agents and anything beyond that probably, unless you blow 'em away, like always. Everybody's available for a price at all times everywhere, right? But it looks like it's just gonna be the guys that are pending free agents. And they're gonna try and run it back to some degree and fix the holes for 2025. So, to me, that's like, there's three bats that you gotta add at least, like third baseman. You need another outfielder 'cause you're gonna wave goodbye to Kevin Kiermeyer and Dalton Varshos, your center fielder. And yeah, okay, whatever. And a DH 'cause Justin Turner's, but three bats, minimum. You need to revamp the entire bullpen. Which, I guess, if you were looking at one area of your team, it would be the easiest to redo. - Sure, and then they'll tell you, like, oh, we have so many relief pitching arms in the minors. And it's like, yeah, okay, Connor Cook, Mason Flourity, Eric Pardino, TJ Brodley, those guys exist. But first of all, you shouldn't be talking about your minor league relievers as your prospects. And also, like, the bisons are way under 500 and can't pitch either, so. - No, your minor league relievers are supposed to be your failed starters. Like, you're supposed to have guys like, yeah, can't hack it three times through the order. But yeah, they give 'em short stints, 20 pitches, they can get it done. And the rotation is gonna lose Yusek, Kuchi, and they're at least one. And like, they can't do a third year of no AAA starting pitching depth. So paint the most optimistic scenario for 2025. Forget about 2026 'cause who the hell knows? And don't even talk about the Vlad and Bo extension stuff 'cause who the hell knows there, too. But like, for 2025, 'cause they're gonna, to save their own hides, they're gonna try and make the playoffs again in 2025. Paint the most optimistic scenario you can. - Yeah, Vlad is the version of Vlad. He's been since the start of May. Boboshette gets back to previous versions of Boboshette. The George Springer we've seen the last couple of weeks is the actual George Springer. April Dalton Varshow comes back, you get a third or fourth consecutive season of none of your rotation full of guys in their mid 30s getting hurt at all. And yeah, you find on some bullpen, guys. It's a pretty flimsy plan when like, I've crunched the numbers and I did some arb estimates for guys and like with the holdovers, and I know should I use the lower number for the eight guarantee guys, but if you include the arb estimates and stuff like that, you're looking at like 190 million already tied up before you add those three starters, or sorry, two starters, three bats and some bullpen help. Like this team can spend $250 million, but 60 million, 70 million doesn't go all that far. And yeah, it's a, and then you could be spending a ton of money and then, you know, it going similarly to the season and then watching Bo and Vlad wave goodbye. - Yeah, and like look at the ifs that I just had to lay out there. Like that's a lot of things not breaking in the right direction all at the same time. And like in the three wild card format, like even in the air, at least like, yeah, you can win 85 games with like some positive regression and some health and like, like everyone is, everyone except the Jay's is in the wild card Jay's world. That happens, but the path to them being on par with the Yankees and Orioles, like there is one. It's just not on the table short of like, you pluck Juan Soto from them. Yeah, but even. - Yeah, I know that's, yeah. Even then. - That's one guy. Yeah, I'd be really excited about that one guy though, and then for the roster that requires this must, this much construction, it's crazy that you just painted the picture, Blake, where there's 190 million, that's probably already tentatively tied up. - They're like eight or nine games under 500. Like they're a bad team. - Yeah, we're talking about like, it'd be one thing if they finished your 81 and 81, and they were like, yeah, a few things right next year, like coming out of 2021 when they missed by a game, but like, you're talking about, they're going to have to be like 15 to 20 wins better next year. And that is not all just going to come from like, guys being a little closer to the way we project them. Like they've got to be a better team. - Yeah, anyways. - Yeah, right. We're going to watch a Canadian men's basketball team play at the Olympics for the first time in 24 years, got their exhibition schedule underway yesterday with the loss of the Americans. Good start though, love the way the Americans would throw in the ball all over the place and missing every shot. What was it? 11, one. - 11, one run, yeah. - Starting before Steph hit that three to open up the field goal scoring for the Americans. I mean, it's just like, what was your initial impression? Our first look at it, like, Daniele and I were talking about, Jordy Fernandez going with the full like hockey line change. - Yeah, so are the substitution pattern. Look, it's the first exhibition game and nobody played over 20 minutes. So I'm not going to get too worried about it yet. But he did do that at the World Cup as well. And he's talked about wanting to go 10 deep in a pool like Canada's. And when most of these teams will keep the rotation to kind of eight, you're not going to be able to do a full, even with better depth this year, can't do a full bench rotation. You've got to have, you know, probably one of Shay or Jamal on the floor for offensive purposes. And then, you know, even with a strong bench, right? Like you have Kelly Olinik who organized your offense, Ludor, who's your best defensive player. Like, that's a good bench unit, but, you know, there's not going to be a time where the teams that you're playing against don't have one of their stars on the floor. Like, I mean, the USA isn't a fair example because they bring Jason Tatum and Anthony Davis and Anthony Edwards off the bench. That's not fair. And like, Greece doesn't, like, like Greece in the non-Yaunus bench minutes, maybe you can get away with it a little bit, but you're not going to be able to do that regularly. >> Yeah, I mean, you can't even do that against Australia. >> No, probably not, and like, you can't. >> Yeah, then less like, yeah, I don't know, the corpse of Matthew Delvedova, just like. >> Yeah, unless that corpse felt completely off a cliff, but you know, but you can't because stylistically, the way those teams play in Spain included, it's just a different style of game. >> And certainly not U.S. and Serbia and France, if you're looking ahead to what things look like in the knockout stages. >> It was reassuring for you to come in here and inform Ben and I that they have two more exhibition games. Because again, I've gone through the process of, I knew there was the one against France, wasn't aware of the one against Puerto Rico, that you alluded us to, simply because that hadn't been really made public at all in terms of it being specified. This is, hey, what the schedule looks like, whereas the Americans, it's laid out pretty plainly in front of us to see what their progression is going to be like from game one yesterday to where they are before they opened the Olympics. The one other big takeaway I had was, and this is no surprise, 'cause we talked about this as a storyline coming in, as a pertaining to this team, they're going to get murdered in the paint. Like they have, they don't have enough size, they don't have enough interior rim protecting presence, and that's concerning. Also, I thought Kelly Olinik looked actually far worse defensively than I've seen him in quite some time, and that includes even with the Raptors last year, like I thought it'd be possible, right? Like honestly, passable, serviceable enough, but man, if he has to be a guy that you're leaning on to play 20 minutes, let's say, conservatively that is, because of the offensive upside, I'm very concerned, 'cause I thought it was frightening to watch him on the defensive end of the court. - And it'll look a little better against, you know, Greece's backup front court isn't, you know, going to destroy him. Australia, you know, Jacque Landell, you probably don't want him in there for those minutes, but, you know, their bench style for the front court, there is just throw a lot of guys at it and see who clicks. But yeah, it's a concern, and, you know, the tough part about being a little smaller at the five position, you can live with that if, you know, you're getting huge offensive value or something like that, or you're very switchy defensively, and they don't really have that. Like Dwight Powell's solid, Kelly Olinik helps the offensive stuff like that, but there is no matchup they're going to run into, where, you know, the interior at either end of the floor, they're really scaring another team, right? Like Dwight Powell and Kelly Olinik are nice players, but they're going to work around the, like, the elbow extended and stuff like that. Like they're not pressuring the rim in the way that some of these other teams are, and then, yeah, not traditionally rim protecting. Now, Canada can cobble that together with, you know, hey, we'll use our center conservatively defensively, our perimeter defense is so good, and we can get so aggressive with that, maybe that makes up for some of it. But yeah, you look ahead to a yawn, it's to a France matchup, to a Yokich matchup. That's where, you know, those things get tough. Now that's part of, you know, that's, those are the table stakes in a tournament as good as the Olympics, but, yeah, that's, you know, size is clearly their weakness. And if there was one, you know, this isn't going to change any of this discussion, but if there was one question with who made the final roster, you know, cabin Gellie's probably the one guy that you might wonder at some point, hey, a little bit extra strength, a little bit extra bounce in that position. You know, what could that have looked like as a defensive rebounding weapon? Something like that. I don't imagine he would have played a ton anyway, but that's kind of the one spot. It's similar, Blake, to how I feel, you know, about Kim Birch and not even Kim Birch, to a greater extent, Melvin Edgeman. - Don't you dare. - No, with great respect to him who, you know, Melvin Edgeman who's been loyal to this program and has carved out a fine professional career. The reality is Mofunu Kevin Gellie is a better basketball player, and I hate to break it to you. And the truth of the matter, and I think it speaks to this lack of size, and potentially some of the concerns there, is the fact that they picked those guys. I don't think Kim Birch and Melvin Edgeman would be on this team if, in theory, there was a more suitable, bonafide option at the center position that you had more faith in to provide you with a solid, or even a tandem that you can have as a solid front-court rotation of some kind. Those guys would not be on that team. - Yeah, I mean, if Zach Edie were available, right? Like, that's who your extra center is. Like, there's not really much question there, but those guys aren't there, right? Like, that this is the- - But even Zach, I know we paint him with a certain brush. I know he could have an impact in that setting, but he's not, he's not an elite player. Like, he's not at that level. - No, I mean, he's a cool Fibo weapon as like a change of pace bench thing. - Use your five, but also, we're talking about, like, the 11th and 12th guys who, like, shouldn't be playing anyway. We're just like, you know, like, it's not as if Kim Birch and Melvin Edgeman made the team over, like, damn out of bio, right? - Yeah, no, of course. - Of course. - You know, like, we're talking about Kyle Alexander and Kevin Gelly and Thomas Scrubbing. - O'Shaper said fairness to him. - Yeah, O'Shaper said was, that was an interesting one, and I wonder if him opting out of his contract and not having a guaranteed deal lineup or something like that affected that. But yeah, an extra kind of rangey wing defender. Anyway, we're splitting hairs on that part. There's no roster selection that would have made them not a very small team inside. - Yeah, but they have the runner up for the NBA MVP on the team. - Yeah, they're gonna be pretty good. They're gonna be pretty good. Last night was mostly okay to build on. - Yeah, Blake. - You got a busy day today. Thanks for doing this, buddy. - Thanks for having me, guys. Blake Murphy, host of Blue Jays Talk Plus, was our insider, brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. When we come back, Adnan Burke of MLB Network, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Aniston, Niele Franceski, Sportsnet 5.90, the fan. [upbeat music] - Diving deep into leaps, raptors, J's and NFL. The J.D. Bunker podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. [dramatic music] - Good morning, show, Sportsnet 5.90, the fan. Ben Aniston, Niele Franceski. Blue Jays wrapping up their series this afternoon in San Francisco against the Giants. They won yesterday to improve to eight games under 542 and 50. Shen Payne problems in comparison to the Blue Jays for the New York Yankees who did win yesterday against the Rays was not easy. They look a lot different than the way they started the season, but they did start the season that way. So this recent swoon has them at 56 and 38, but it's never a good sign when one, your general manager travels with you on a road trip and two, when your owner travels with you on the road, like Hal Steinrenner is with the Yankees on their road trip in Tampa. - Interesting. - They're just two games back of the Baltimore Orioles. They obviously, you have the pending Juan Soto free agency, so, but they're the Yankees and they're always gonna be good, but I wonder if there is like a certain, an extra layer of urgency with this team this season, considering what is about to happen with Juan Soto and considering how disappointing the season was a year ago that, yeah, they're one of the teams that are gonna do everything within their powers to improve themselves with the deadline. - They're a veteran team and they're in a wind now mode. And that's clear as they've been when you look at the roster, the way it's constructed and the amount of money that they have invested in certain areas. I don't know, I'm sure you saw this. - To Mesa? - Yeah, minor league reagent for the Yankees. - Then I can't wait till he comes up in August and then he's like, shovels one and a half E.R.A. - No, does, but to him, Mesa has done the last couple of years in the Major League, right? - Familiar as ever with the A.L. East, of course. So we'll see what happens there. But yeah, I am fascinated by that. And obviously the Yankees have been bereft with injuries, especially in their bullpen. - Yeah, no question about it. But yeah, they picked up a much needed victory yesterday because the race could not come through with the men on base against Marcus Strowman. All right, let's talk to Adnan Burke of MLB Network in the Cinephile podcast. How's it going, Adnan? - Dan, welcome back. Hope you're the good respite. I don't want to land within the cards or what you're up to, but give them the back and the other good to talk to as well. - Yeah, no, not Wonderland for me. I actually decided to punt on Wonderland this summer because my little guy is too young to ride any of the good rides. My older guy is old enough, but I obviously like, that's a tough one to hack if I go to Wonder. So instead, I went to African Lion Safari last week and we drove through the monkeys and I told the story already, but like, I was kind of half hoping they would jump on in our card despite the potential for mayhem. But they did jump on the car in front of us and they had one of those big, like, truly like storage bins on top of the roof rack and there must have been bananas in it. They were trying to rip that thing clean open. They couldn't do it. - Oh my God. - And then the one monkey relieved itself on the side of the car. That was, they made the trip for me. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. You ever done African Lion Safari? It was very enjoyable. - I have, but what I've noticed is that, like, it's just, it's slow moving, right? It's kind of thinking, oh my God, Safari, it's gonna be adventurous, but like, you're just, you're inching along at 10 kilometers an hour just hoping to see it giraffes. - Yeah. - And then you'll see something, but like, you gotta make sure you're blasting the AC and as you sit at a window stop, and hopefully you'll see something. - I agree with it though, it's a cool little trip. It's a nice little, very trontonia thing when I hear I have to buy a surprise to get some nostalgic memories. But when you mention the monkeys attacking it, I always did that picture like war for plenty of the apes like it turns into, you know, a catastrophic situation. - And then you mentioned Wonderland, hand up. I gotta tell you, I mean, I've lived like 10 minutes from Wonderland for my entire youth and into my adult life, and I cannot tell you the last time I visited Wonderland. So I'm sure that, I bet that makes you pretty ashamed. 'Cause anytime somebody talks about coming to visit Toronto, there's the CN Tower, there's, you know, Niagara Falls, there are all these different landmarks and activities, and then Wonderland always pops up. And I literally drive by Wonderland every single day, and I never think about even trying or having a desire to enter the park, ever. - No, I know what you mean to me. I can say for years, my parents moved to Maple from Kingston in 2019. - Ah, okay. - So you're right, all the years that I go back and forth. So I wouldn't have, you know, you're right, when it's right, a stone is thrown from you. You just, you know, you can't get used to it. Like, well, why would I bother going there? It's very, as you said, very touristy. The way they get you is the season's fast. If you just go one to like $45. - Yes. - So you get the season's fast, it's like $65. So they want you to go like 12 different times, but I hear you, man, it's one of those things that if you're out of the zeitgeist, why would you ever go? But now I'm like a tourist and like, oh, I have to go to Wonderland, I have to go to all these things. - Yeah, and I haven't been in so long. I talked to somebody who had been recently with their kids, like, oh, I can't go on the rides, my stomach gets upset. I was like, my stomach is fine. And I was like, when was the last time you were there? I was like, 20 years old, oh, yeah. No, I know, that could be an issue for me. I don't think it's gonna happen to someone. - But it makes sense with your boys, you're right, with your boys, six and four. Next summer's gonna be great. Seven and five, dude. I'm telling you, the candy rides, they're gonna have a little water park, I cannot wait for the edits. And it's gonna be like one of their logists. - I'll send you some pics. - All right, so to the baseball and your boy, Aaron Boone, God, this does feel like a carbon copy redox version of Yankee season, what, like two years ago where they got off to the insane start and then had the insane losing streak and then ended up with 100 wins. This is kind of the way it goes for the Yankees, but for the life of me, I don't recall Brian Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner being on a road trip with this Yankees team, trade deadlines, fast approaching. They have the pending free agency of Juan Soto, so there is a level of urgency with this team. Like, how desperate do you think the Yankees are to make a big splash at the deadline? And could that include trading Jason Dominguez? - There's a high level of urgency right now. There's no question about it because the start they got off to when they were at a 700 winning percentage, like, all right, start spreading the news. Yankees have been on a world service since 2009, 15 years is long enough. The act is gonna be a battle with the Orioles, but one of those teams is gonna be first and go down the wire and away we go. And the way the house has fallen in, I mean, the fact that as you said, they won last, they would've felt like, the Braves must win in the Yankees history in the middle of the regular season. They'd lost 15 of 21 games in the ERA of like around seven. Like that, what was crazy preposterous to me is when I was looking at their starting pitching ERA, all the numbers are still pretty good. Aside from Rodon and Cole, Cole was 675, Cole is now 493, sorry, Rodon was 493, after having this great start. Rodon's last five starts ERA of almost 11. But the other three guys are all like three and a half. I'm like, God, that just shows how great heel Cortez and Strowman were prior to the stretch where everyone collectively has been dreadful. So they're very lucky they got out to this amazing start. So they've got this room, but you're right, it gets to this point where you go, hang on, and by the way, it's almost quite the depth of how the red socks have taken off, literally since June 12th, the red socks have the best record in baseball. Since June 15th, the Yankees have the worst record in baseball. So now Boston very much is in play for a wildcard. Like I think they're going to make the playoffs. They just agile the royals who, listen, it's been a nice start, but I think ultimately Boston is the better team. They're pitching holds up their offense, never's been amazing, et cetera. So yeah, I think the Yankees have to look close and go, there's precedent for what's happened. Like you said, Ben, like this has happened before. You started out great, you slump badly, and things never really got turned around. So Cashman can't afford to just sit back and be passive. And Dominguez is an all-world player, we know that. But eventually, the time is now to win. Soto could be caught after this season. I don't care if Jason Dominguez is there for the next seven years as his all-time great slugger. They got to make a move, and if he needs to be the one that they have to part ways with, I think they'll be willing to do so. I really do. - Yeah, it feels like it could be a carbon copy of 2022. There's no doubt about it. And if we even think back, what was the most compelling thing going on with the Yankees for the last two months of the season? It was everybody just kind of sitting on their hands and saying, all right, well, at least we have Aaron Judge to watch, but the team felt old. It felt like they were in a different space in terms of their actual ability to compete for a World Series at that time. And I obviously, given that they've made a bunch of changes since then, in terms of the roster and some of the key pieces that they've brought in, including Resigning Aaron Judge, there's an appetite for that to not happen again and have a repeat of it. Aaron Boone is interesting in all of this. And I know Ben mentioned Brian Cashman and Hal Steinburner bring on this trip with the team. He's been around for a long, long time as the manager of the New York Yankees. Is there-- - Careful, that's his boy. - I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, and we're asking a sensitive question here. I understand this, but in terms of the appetite for potential change in that regard, what do you think the sort of the atmosphere, the mood is like among the fan base right now as it pertains to the manager? - Well, it is amazing how quickly things changed in there. Like, 'cause you're right. When they had this amazing start, and by the way, Boonie was at the end of last year, they gave it to your contract. So he is just another year and I have to go to steal. But it felt like, okay, hey, he's finally gonna be the guy, the Winter World Series, he can keep going. As you mentioned, he's pretty long to your manager. Now, seven seasons, I still recall being at ESPN and seeing the news class that he got the job and calling him immediately and laughing about it. Like, it doesn't feel that long ago, but it's been seven years. Like, he's lasted in a really hard, tough, pressurized environment a lot longer than people have realized. And his resume has been great aside from the post-season success. They have not gotten the World Series. They had that great ALCS against the Astros, and they fell in six. But I do think that the frustration is rising. And to your point, there's Yankees fans around me like, "Oh, your boy voting." I'm like, "What do you mean?" Like, did they have the best record in baseball month ago? Like, "How was he gonna get fired?" Like, "Yeah." And they're like, "I don't think the Yankees would make a change in season." That feels too much of a desperation move. But like you said, I'm kind of, it's one of them, Cashman joined the road trip, but how, as well, I got like, all the vultures are just circling right now. And again, I don't think it's like they're ripping off a 10-game losing streak, he's gonna get fired. Again, I really don't think you'd make a change mid-season. I really don't. But after the season, if the Yankees don't have, you know, a strong end, it could be a tough time for my guy. Even with one year left on this contract, it makes him make that move. Now, he's thickest, he's a blind Cashman. And by Cashman, we recently signed his deal. You're a little bit ago. So Cash will definitely not want to part with this guy, but it's not the first time we've seen a situation where GM and manager are very tight, and the GM has to make a tough decision. He doesn't necessarily agree on to appease the fan base to appease ownership. But I think he's okay for now, but I definitely think everyone knows this is not good right now. - Yeah, I've been trying to get Jason Dominguez into a Blue Jays uniform for the last couple of weeks, trying to figure out the trade, because at least that sells you hope. And I know his ability to return even this season is kind of in question. He's got the oblique thing, which is you just gonna miss a couple of months. Just coming off the Tommy John surgery, but that's a guy, even at the brief foray we saw at the Major League level, you could convince yourself could be a cornerstone of the next Blue Jays' contending team, which this front office is hoping is 2025, because every report at NAN is that they're only selling the dudes that are pending free agents. Is that enough? Like, should the Blue Jays be digging deeper as far as the guys that they're gonna make available before July 30th? - The problem is, of course, Ben, like the big chips, it's tough to par with. Like Vlad has turned it around. He's like, how can you trade Vlad, Junior? Are you kidding me? This guy could be your star for the next 10 years. You could get trade Vlad. And Boba Shep, when looking at his numbers yesterday, I was like, he has like the third biggest drop-off in batting average of any player of the Major's. Like, I was looking at his numbers yesterday, you know, from 306 to 6th season, they go to 223, whatever it is. And like, it's just, it's alarming. And so you can't trade a guy when he's slumping that bat. And, you know, somebody can give the thought to you. They go, it's almost better this way. It's a better what way. They go, the Jays will have a bat season. Now, Vlad's camp will ask for big money. Okay, fine. Hopefully they can sign him that often. Before you might get into the disc notes. And I said, hang on a second. You're going to run this back to the Blue Jays organization and to the fan base, it's all right. You know, we stuck. We've had no playoff success. But we're going to bring back the two big links for the whole success. And my friend was arguing, listen, there's only so few stars everywhere else. Where else are you going to replace these guys? Yeah, but for if both isn't the guy you thought he was, why on earth would you give him $200 million? Like, I don't necessarily view that thought process. So I answered your question. I think those two guys, it's too tough to pull off a trade. 'Cause one, you don't think you're going to get fair value for Vlad. I'm not sure he's your part with them. And both, you're definitely not going to get fair value. So why dump them now? And as far as the other pieces, I go, listen, Kevin Gossman's an interesting one because you go, hey, he's a veteran guy. He hasn't had a good season. Everyone knows he can, he's capable of being a top 10 starter. Why wouldn't you at least float Gossman's game up there? And you might get a team, you know, especially in today's game or starting pitching is so valid. Like I think you'd get a pretty good haul for Kevin Gossman. So I'm with you, Vlad. I wouldn't be averse aside from Bowlin flat. I don't think those trades are tough. I wouldn't be averse from dangling a pretty big carrot aside from those two guys. If there's a starting pitch like the awesomeness to need out there, I would do it. 'Cause otherwise, as you said, if you're a Jason, you look at the year and you go, okay, we got a terrible year. We're not going to trade anybody. What exactly is the plan that's off season? There's no discernible plan to move forward. - No, 20, 25 doesn't look so great either. That's the problem. But it looks a lot better if it's like Kevin Gossman. And you say, you can have the two pack of Kevin Gossman and you say Kukuchay for Jason Dominguez, like, come on. Come on, who says no, I love it. - I swear to God, I'm a text booty later today. Like, hey, how's Jason Dominguez lookin'? How come what are you looking at Jason before? Just throw it out there. You're definitely standing over there. I'm sorry, truth of this. I'm like, just catch it to cash. Come on, why not? - Before that you go, have you seen "Horizon?" That the... - Oh my God. - I'm one of the few, apparently, that side, yeah. - Okay, yeah. - So, number two is not coming out to theaters, right? A $100 million budget. Kossner puts $38 million of his own money into the first two films. And wants four films. This is an era in which, as you guys know, no one loves movies, won't be, no one loves going to the theaters, won't be. But nobody goes to theaters anymore. Everyone's waiting for streaming. Unless it's a Marvel movie, unless it's a major movie, people generally don't go to theaters. But this dude, and I admire his ambition, and I love Kevin Goss, of course, the untouchables, still the theaters, all the rest of it. But at the age of 65 years of age, you guys, you know what? I'm gonna risk my entire career, my legacy, on four, three-hour Westerns. Like, unless Wolverine shows up at some point, this is like a hell of a risk. So, the first movie comes in, and I'm cheering for him, right? I want this to work. 'Cause like, this will revitalize movie theaters. This will prove the worth of movies. And the movie wasn't very good. Like, I'm not gonna say it was horrendous, but I watched it, I sat through it. It's too long, it's began during. There's some great moments. Chloe, he's a talented guy. He's a good director. There's a couple of shootouts, a couple of romantic scenes. But like, there's a movie, here's my issue, as a standalone film, it wasn't very strong. And you've gotta have a great movie which stands on its own. You can't say, "Don't worry, it'll get good." That happens when they be serious. People tell me, "Oh, you should watch The Bear," and I go, "I don't want to go." It gets really good in season two. So, I've been, that's four hours of my life. I can't do that. It has to be good out of the gate. So, right, it's a constant attempt to go, "Don't worry, it'll get good." And that's what, nobody watched the first one. So, now no one's gonna watch the second one. It grossed 11 million dollars. - Right. - And as you said, it was supposed to be part two, August 16th. Now they go, "Well, I will just move it." You know, it gets worse. He's in the middle of shooting the third movie, and it said he needs more money. Guess what? You're not gonna get more money for that third one. And that fourth one, he'd have it either. So, you've never condensed all that slow you have. Go, go, go, re-shoot the ending of episode two, whenever it comes out. 'Cause that's what it is, man. You're not gonna get this four movie anthology, I hate to say. - Now, it's gonna make "Water World" look like not a debacle. The way that this is playing a costume is gonna look back fondly in "Water World." That actually apparently made money. I didn't realize. It felt like at the time that that was like the biggest embarrassment. But, nope, this one might change the game. - But you're right, Ben, for a guy. - For a guy who's had such great successes, won the Academy of Work to answer the goals. He's got his "Water World," which he said broke even despite the fact of the huge budget. But the postman was a colloquial, that's right. And this is gonna join it as well. So, there's been some bad movies he's made, man. - That's rough. Adnan, always a pleasure. Great to talk to you again, man. Thanks. - Appreciate that, boys. Jason Dominguez, keep that fuel going, buddy. - Yeah, like, I will. See, Adnan, there's Adnan Verk, MLB Network, and the "Cinephile Podcast." That's the guy, if I was a Blue Jays fan. - 500%. - I mean, like-- - The Martian, Ben? - Yeah. - Yeah, of course. I mean, yeah. - I don't care about this in-division trading. - No. - Especially considering the twofold thing that, one, you only got 13 divisional games now. And two, I mean, John Marosi put it in a way that I hadn't really thought about it before, but you're factually competing for more playoff spots against the other teams in the American League than the teams in your division, who are also, I guess, competing for those wildcard teams, but no. There's three wildcard teams outside of your division. There's only one division winner. So yeah, absolutely have no problem trading with the Yankees, especially if you're looking at getting somebody like Jason Dominguez. Anybody sure to like Jackson Holiday, yeah? - Honestly, if the Yankees would consider moving him or be tempted because of feeling pressure to perform this year, man, you best make that call. He's terrific, he'd be awesome, he'd be so fun, so fun. - He's hoping he figures out a way to stay healthy. - That is the hope, yes. - Yeah. - All right, buddy, you'll be back tomorrow hosting the show. - Yes, sir. - Great job today, and enjoy tomorrow. And next week, you enjoy your reprieve, Ben. - Well, thanks. - Well, thank you. - Thanks, buddy. It's been the fan, morning show, Ben N.S., Danieli Franceski, sports net 590, the fan. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (dramatic music)
