[MUSIC] >> Fan, morning to a sports 10-5-9 of the fan, Ben Aniston, yelly, Francesca, filling in for Brendan Gunning. That was Ken Rosenthal on Sportsnet Central yesterday. So the Blue Jays, they got all the cards. You know what, they're kind of in the position the Raptors have been in the last couple of trade deadlines, right? It's like everybody's waiting for the Raptors. Where is the move coming? And could they finally unload those very valuable assets and they didn't two seasons ago? And they did finally, a last year's trade deadline, perhaps too little too late. But yeah, and the New York Knicks and the Indiana Pacers says thank you very much. And we'll see how the Raptors feel about that return. But the Blue Jays, they hold all the cards. They're the team everybody's looking at as we head towards the trade deadline on July 30th. So Ken Rosenthal obviously has his own reporting. And everybody's kind of in line with what Mark Feinstein from MLB.com wrote about yesterday. So here's, I'll just read it to you. According to sources, Blue Jays have told other clubs they are willing to move players with expiring contracts. But those with control beyond 2024 are not being traded. So that would include, of course, Boba Chet, Vladimir Guerrero Jr, the aforementioned Chris Bassett, Kevin Gossman, Jose Barrios. All those guys not on the trade block. Which makes sense. I mean, Ken Rosenthal said it. If you do that, and you say, hey, I'll work hard reset, look at the teams in our division. We can have no shot, which by the way, might be the reality, but we're not like a couple of tweaks and an off season away from competing in 2025. I mean, if you own the Toronto Blue Jays, if you're Rogers, if you're Edward Rogers, and you hear the guy who you handed the car keys to, now like almost a decade into this thing. Yeah. Say, I, you know, all the like no playoff games we've won and no division titles that we've won. Like that was, that was our successes. Yeah, that was the highest the price. We're not, we're, let's try it again. New era, which means like what a two, three, four, five years in the wilderness before we're ready to make the playoffs again. You can't do that. If you're Ross Atkins and Marc Shapiro, you're, you're basically saying fire me. Yes. You're fire me. Yep. If that's your proposal to ownership, okay, I am actually glad you raised that point because I've made that exact same point on many occasions, the last handful of weeks here in on various shows. I probably even mentioned it to gunning last week at some point when we were on together. But I think that is the most interesting part of all this, you know, they are very raptor Z right now in their position as it pertains to the deadline. They're very raptor Z right now in terms of being in this murky middle where they're mediocre and they're not great and you weren't just sort of as a fan clamoring for them to give us a sign of what the future might look like. And we were sitting in that sort of weird with the wilderness, this weird like dead zone with the Raptors for a handful of years, there are a lot of parallels there. Here's the one thing that finally we now see the Raptors decided, hey, hand up, we screwed up didn't work out. We were probably a little bit too sentimental with some of our assets. We mishandled various situations, but now we are going to admit failure and try and pivot and do something different. The J's can't do that. This front office can't do that because the biggest difference there is the Raptors you can walk into the front for you at OVO and there's a Larry O'Brien trophy sitting there. This franchise and this front office, as you laid out, can't even point to saying we want a playoff series. No, they haven't won a game though. In the postseason and so an admission of failure, even though in my estimation, that is obviously the most pragmatic and prudent thing to do, there's no way they can do that because it is then an admission of failure and you are essentially saying and signaling to the people that are above you, that are your bosses, that it's time for them to fire you. That's why this front office, as currently constructed with Ross Atkins in charge, will never put their hand up and say and take ownership for the various missteps that have transpired and for how they ended up in this position with a payroll that is north of $220 million yet they can't make the playoffs and they can't win a playoff game. I think that is one of the most fascinating sort of philosophical, methodological kind of components to all this is if you get into the head of those guys, it just from a pure job security standpoint, there's no way they could ever admit that they were wrong. >> But here's the thing. >> And how they went about this? >> I know they're pragmatic. I know they're cold and logical because they told us as much after they took over after the most exciting season in 2015, they said, hey, listen, if you didn't have the success, we would have said, thanks, but no, thanks to all these older players, but we owed it to the fans to run it back in 2016. Guess what happened in 2016? I know it wasn't the same level of excitement around that team. >> They made an American League championship series. >> Of course. >> Those guys looked old though. >> Sure. >> But whatever, they, who would have preferred that they sold off the assets and didn't have the potential postseason run that they had. The most logical, pragmatic thing for this team to do, I don't think there's any debate considering what the top of the division looks like, considering how far away from contention they feel like, would to be something, go something close to a scorched earth with this team at the deadline, get as many high level assets as you can for not just the pending free agents, but for whoever people find value in at the deadline, that's not the most fun. Frankly, I know that this is counterintuitive to what you've seen the last two seasons. What is going to happen is more fun. As long as it results in better than this next year, it's hard to imagine it being worse. You don't have to be very good to make the playoffs. I think the Blue Jays can return to being a 500 team next year, which you may roll your eyes at. But this is the state of the game in 2024, 2025, is that if you're 500, you're very much in the playoff race until the end of the season. You might be making the playoffs, especially if you're the national league where the Diamond But if you're in it to have a team that looks like a World Series winner, that's not the path you would go down. But it's also, like we mentioned about that if you choose to go down, the one where you're like, okay, what do we want to do? Make the playoffs and win a World Series. If that's the decision you make as a front office, you're like, okay, but somebody the next guy can do that because we can't like what what owner would considering the lack of success. Let you do two tear downs. It just it does not happen in pro sports. So sell them. Does it happen? So it's I know as a fan, you're like, and maybe I'm speaking only to the hardcore fans because like the casual fans, yeah, they don't want to see bow and Vlad traded away. They want to see those guys as Blue Jays for life. Yep. And they want to go into a 2025 season where, yeah, sure, okay, they are expected to be in the playoff mix. So that's what you're going to get. Yep. What you're going to get is anybody barring like Juan Soto plus plus this off season picking the Blue Jays to win the American League East next year and win the World Series. Now that being said, doesn't mean they can't do those things because unlike basketball, as much as like chip in a chair, I roll my eyes at the Arizona Diamondbacks with 84 wins did make the World Series last year. Sure. The Texas Rangers did not have the best record in the American League and won the World Series last year. It's not possible, but you're not going to be set up in a way, barring something unbelievable. Like the greatest chess move in the history of the sport that Ross Atkins and Mark Schabauer are about to pull off where the Blue Jays roster wise just names on paper look like the best team in their division, let alone their league, let alone Major League Baseball next season. I think it goes back to what's the goal? What's the goal? Is the goal to be a playoff team, to be a team that can hover around that 500 mark slightly over be in that conversation because yes, with the advent of the third wildcard and it's it's a lot more convenient and easier to gain access to the postseason. Or is it to actually build something that is sustainable and you can be a perennial legitimate contender for championships? If the answer is the latter, I'm sorry, like, you know, clearly changes necessary and there is a route that it can be the most logical. But in this instance, certainly from the position of those in power within the front office, Mark Schabauer or Ross Atkins and company, they need to bet on the former in order to keep themselves relevant and their jobs. The system has allowed it to be so, right? Like if this was 20 years ago and you're talking about one wildcard team and you had to win the division, there's just no choice because you're you would not be in a position to make a run at a playoff spot if you were a 500 team next season. This system promotes bad decisions and it promotes terrible decisions. It promotes mediocrity and it promotes bad things making bad decisions. It depends on how you feel about it because what it promotes is in a way like not tanking, right? Like it promotes not tanking because the Blue Jays see a path to making the playoffs and even this season, like honestly, as bad as this team is, it's not under the realm of possibility that they get a couple of games under 500. If you're under 500, a chip in a chair and it's bad. I know, I know you're just saying that, but our eyes do tell us a sort. Not just our eyes, like the every statistical analysis of this team giving up as many runs and scoring as few as they do that there's no run coming. The thing with numbers, analytics, you can always manipulate metrics to tell a story that you prefer it to tell. And we've seen it on display by this organization in various capacities over many years now. But my point is your eyes will tell you. Like we all know the 2021 Blue Jays, for example, were objectively a good baseball team. 2022, not not as good, but still good. And then you watch last year and you watch this year and the reality is not a great baseball team. All right, we don't even need to know what it says on the back of a baseball card or what it says on stack cast and baseball, so on or whatever metric to know that they're not good. That's, I think that is what it that's as simple as it can be. But those things will also tell you that they're not good. Like there is. Sure. You get a double whammy because the eye test and the stats all of them tell you that the team is no good. But they can dig up numbers to try and suggest that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think they can. There isn't. Like there's no expected batting average exit velocity. It's the same thing with both shots like you just got to go on blind faith that a turnaround is coming. Yeah. Do you get that? No, I think. Yeah. So what we do get like a little too stuck in our silos, especially talking about sports every day when we talk about, hey, what's the best and smartest move for the Blue Jays to make as opposed to what's the most fun and if you're a casual fan again, like rebuilds are no fun. They're not fun for fans. It is not fun to go through what the Blue Jays went through for a couple of years in 2018 and 2019. That's not fun. Like you can talk about, hey, getting to see the young players, sure, I guess it's fun to have hope even if it's just to make the playoffs or make a wild card spot. It's not fun to basically punt on an entire season. So I understand like everything I just said still stands best way forward for this team if they want to get to where the Yankees or the Orioles or it seems like the Red Sox are further ahead of them in their pursuit of being at the top of this division and a contender for a World Series as the most prudent course of action is to sell off everything that can return you some young controllable high ceiling assets. But that's frankly not as fun as what the Blue Jays are about to do. Now it's going to be not, it's going to be the least fun thing will be them doing this and getting the same result next year and then bow and Vlad walking for nothing and you're holding the bag and it's like, oh, not only are we a year behind the rebuild and yeah, we're in the wilderness anyways, but we got nothing for those guys and it's like our best hope is selling off the pitchers that are under contract. But to that point, also in this Mark Feinstein article, I think this one kind of went under reported. Yeah, I agree. You guys have talked with agents for both players, this about bow and Vlad, about potential extension sources said, although the club has been unable to get a deal done with either, one source said it's a quote, much smaller gap in quote that has been reported, leaving Toronto hopeful that it will be able to retain at least one of their young stars beyond 2025. So that, that is interesting, okay? We know there's only one year of control remaining for both Bobshed and Vladimir Guerrero Jr and the proximity to the free agent market makes it very difficult to find a spot where both sides can agree on a dollar figure. But we have seen it with Raphael Divers in the exact same spot with the Boston Red Sox, where it looked like they were going to walk them right into free agency day before regular season they come to terms on a deal. The understanding I had was that this, I mean, they've talked, but like it's not really much of anything. If this is true in that it's a much smaller gap than we could have previously anticipated, yeah, that means that I guess this front office believes that the window is extended for as long as one of those guys, if not both of them are extended for. So this reporting is interesting because in a lot of ways it runs contrary to most of the reporting that we've consumed on this subject for the last handful of months when it comes to the conversation about Bo and Vlad. And if there had ever been material contract, we haven't, we've always been under the assumption. And heck, I think even, you know, this is, maybe I'm slightly dubious of the extent to which there has been this degree of progress because even was it two weeks ago, three weeks ago when Ross Atkins was on Blair and Barker, they, and they, and credit to Jeff and Kevin for how they proposed the line of questioning because I thought it was very, it was obviously very scathing and very pointed. But you know, on the subject of Vlad, Ross talked about how they, that he didn't think there was any chance they were going to sign something this year or even in the off season. Like that was, he made that clear and I thought, oh my goodness, this is the most revealing piece of information we've ever had from the general manager because more often than not, it's a lot of, it's a lot of, you know, GM speak. It's a lot of word salad from him and we don't get much clarity. He almost explicitly kind of tipped his hand and saying, yes, we've kind of obviously had these internal discussions, but realistically we, we based on where things are, we don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. So I am, forgive me if I am a little slightly dubious on that point. That being said, I think my stance and my position has evolved, but it's always been steady from this perspective. I think you need one, you need to be able to retain one of Boer Vlad. You can ill afford to have a scenario where both are walking out the door. I think one of them can still factor into your future, whether that is a remodeling of some kind or a more drastic, more drastic measures are taken in terms of fully tearing it down. I still think they're young enough that you can have one of them, pay one of them and have them be a part of this next wave of Blue Jays baseball. To lose both would be, I think, would be devastating. To the fan base, to the organization, it would be a tough pill to swallow if both guys walked out the door, or even if you chose to trade both guys, unless it was for a king's ransom. I think the best option is to at least try to keep one of them in the full pick one, identify who you prioritize, which is more reasonable and realistic, and go that route. Make that player feel comfortable making that player, Boer Vlad, the highest paid player in Blue Jays history. Give them the biggest contract because that's going to be inevitable. Given their age, given the amount of term that will be attached to the deal, they will have the largest contract in franchise history. Commit to one, but to lose both, I think would be devastating for everybody. Yeah, it has to happen this offseason because the nightmare scenario that I laid out where it's like, oh, you're bad next year, and those guys walk for like, it won't be nothing. If you're bad next year, like, you got to get whatever you can at the deadline for those guys, but it won't be near what you could get now or in this offseason. To protect yourself against that scenario, you have to sign one of those guys and you have to maybe go beyond what you wanted to do financially, which is always the case with either free agents or a guy that are just a year away from free agency. Before we get to the draft stuff and the Ben Nicholson Smith article, which was so good, yesterday, Mark Shapiro, I don't know if he's read it and if he has, it's probably a lot of wincing involved. Yeah, but we've already heard some interesting stuff from Boboshette when it comes to the trade deadline and whether he would be surprised if he's traded and he said, frankly, no to Hazel May, the San Francisco Giants need a short stop. Since Brian Crawford said goodbye, I haven't had anybody play in that position. Susan Sluster had a one-on-one with Boboshette. Boboshette did a television interview as well on San Francisco television. Another one of the narratives out there, Bo, I don't know if you know this, some players, agents, some people think San Francisco, the way the city is right now, they might deter players from coming to play here. What have you seen so far? What do you like about the city of San Francisco? Yeah, honestly, I haven't really explored the city much. For me, first and foremost, I want to win. It would be the number one party for me if I was choosing a team, and the Giants obviously are committed to that. I think that they're in a position to get the right type of players, and I think that's what's important. >> Why is he talking like he's a free agent? What is happening here? I understand he's just answering the questions that are asked of him, but there is a way to extricate yourself, and maybe it's just like a guy that does speak, frankly. >> How many times have you heard that question? That line of questioning pop up in regular daily media vails about, hey, you're visiting this city, what are your impressions? And then it's like, yeah, love City X. It's great to be here and enjoy coming here and visiting every time we have to play, whatever. That question gets asked to athletes all the time. Why was this then taken by Boba Shedd as an opportunity? >> I mean, he said it. He put himself in the hypothetical scenarios, like if I were choosing teams. That's my point. And that was not included within the actual framing of the question. So that was interesting. And something else Ben, and I think everybody by now sort of knows this about Bo. He's very direct. He's very candid. If he's asked the question, he is going to answer it, and he's going to be very authentic and organic and how he goes about that, because that's just who he is as a person. But it does feel like, as you pointed out, it does not kind of provide you with a sense of maybe there's one foot out the door here and he is really being consumed by thinking a little bit at least to some degree. What does my future look like? Where am I playing? What do I value in a team? Like this is all I've ever known, but what do I care about as a player? What do I think is most important? It feels like there's an element of that going on here. Yes, it's bizarre. I want people to speak, honestly, I'm not going to drag him for saying things that he believes are true, but there's a way to answer that question or to be involved. He didn't, like you said, the question was not, hey, if you were picking a team, do the Giants have things that you'd be interested in? Yeah, I mean, he brought that up himself to do that at this moment in his career, at this moment in the franchise's history, yeah, it's just a little eyebrow raising considering the need at that one position for San Francisco, hard to imagine them giving up heaven and earth considering where they are in the standings and considering what he's done this season. Maybe this is just a, and maybe it's not as calculating as this. Maybe this is just a stoking of the fires for next off season or two off seasons from now when he is a free agent that, yeah, maybe people in San Francisco remember this conversation that he had in their one visit to San Francisco is just, it was very, very weird. I'll take a call, don't worry, I'll take your call. I imagine you would. Anyway, so, so the Ben Nichols and Smith article, which is amazing. So well done. So many great nuggets. Oh, I love me some graphs too, or like some spreadsheets where it's illustrating where the Blue Jays have finished from a war perspective from previous amateur drafts, which goes on Sunday. It'll be the ninth for Ross Atkins as general manager of the Blue Jays 2016 their first draft. And that was a really good one. Unquestionably. Now a lot of holdovers from the Alex Santopolis regime, like different dudes at the tippy top of the scouting department. Yeah, yeah. But hey, despite the bad season this year, yeah, who can argue with bullshit in the second round? Well done. Cav and Bezio. Okay. I get it. Maybe it's not an MVP candidate, but he's a major leaguer that you got in the fifth round. That's well done. Yep. Yeah. That was very good. Sure. That was a very good. They're one of the best teams as far as collecting war out of that individual draft in major league baseball. So they did deserve credit for that. And I don't care who's at the tippy top like no Ross Atkins, he the buck stops with him and he gets credit for that. That was on his watch. But if we just like separate that, I don't think is unfair because like there's there's still a big sample beyond that. That's one season. And again, there are reasons why you might separate it from Ross. I'm not going to, but like there are reasons why you could separate it from this regime. Okay, since 2017, so beyond that unquestionably good draft year. The Toronto Blue Jays ranked 21st among 30 teams in war with 11. That is right between the White Sox and the Marlins. They are dead last in the American League East. If like your argument is, well, they haven't been bad enough to draft well enough in these no, like Yankees much better than them, like unquestionably, they are dead last in the American League East. That's just players that have arrived at the major league level. They have 11 wars since 2017, but beyond that, if you're like, well, but they haven't arrived yet. Like the players that they've drafted and developed like they're on the cusp. Well, like obviously you would never say that because if you have even a passing knowledge of the Blue Jays farm system, you wouldn't say that headed into this season, the Blue Jays farm season, this isn't everything because like who knows, maybe the next Albert Paul Hoss is about to arrive thinking not the farm system was ranked 23rd by Fangrafts 24th by both baseball America and MLB.com. This was the P.S. The resistance for me out of the story from Benny and sportsnet.ca Mark Shapiro in 2015 after taking over for Alex and thoughtless in reference to what they were left with in the minor league system. Well, there were five AAA guys named blank. The guys named blank don't contribute many innings. We had to deal with that challenge and we're creatively trying to address it. Now, that was 2015, okay? That was almost a decade ago. I mentioned this earlier. I'll just quickly rehash it for people. So Mark Shapiro making a dig at the Blue Jays lack of starting depth at the AAA level like if there was an injury or a lack of performance, we got nobody in Buffalo to call up and support our major league staff. Here are the top seven starters when it comes to game started in Buffalo for the Bisons this season. Andrew Bash, ERA 3, 6, 9, but a four and a half walks per nine Chad Dallas, 12 games started, 6, 9, 2 ERA, Paolo Espino, 10 games started, 5 ERA, Aaron Sanchez, 10 games started, 10, 4, 5 ERA, Yariel Rodriguez, who's at the major league level right now, seven games started, 1, 3, 3 ERA, both Salsa, 7 games started, 6, 8, 7 ERA, Troy Watson, 7 games started, 8, 1, 6 ERA. The picture is so bleak and so embarrassing, frankly, for this organization over the last decade. I mean, if I were, you wouldn't have to go far to lay out the case as to why and you wouldn't have to say it at all. You'd just say you're fired. But if like say you had to make a case as to why this front office should be given the heave ho, boy, that's at the tippy top of the list for me. >> First off, when's the last time we heard Mark Shapiro talk about a draft, it's been years. >> Yeah. >> Because I think that's sort of by design in terms of him actually strategically distancing himself from baseball operations, news flash though, Mark, you still run the baseball team, like the entire operation sort of falls on your shoulders and that includes the actual product on the field. What was the line there, Ben? That list you just referenced, but what was the, obviously- >> There were five triple A guys named blank, the guys named blank don't contribute many innings. >> You know what that list was? A bunch of blanks. >> Yeah. >> And blank, you know what I should have done as I should have looked at the whatever triple A rotation he was looking at. There's, I can guarantee you the list that I just rattled off is worse than whatever it was in 2015. >> I think you're, that would be 100% accurate. Like, yeah, I mean, I can't, yeah, just think of how many different guys the J's had to cycle through even in the years where there, it was a clear dead period after they tore it down. Because there were these like serviceable enough options that they had to go and get from triple A. So that, that speaks to it overall. Okay, I did some digging myself here in terms of the draft and- >> I did your own research. >> Yeah, a little bit. Just because on the subject of, of how many players that have been drafted by this organization since Ross, Mark, and company came into power, how many of those on an annual basis have reached the major league level? >> So if we go to 2016, and as you alluded to already, that is by far their most successful draft. It goes without saying, Bo's in that class, Bijio was in that class. Overall that year, this is pre COVID when the drafts were very extensive, 41 picks were made by the Toronto Blue Jays, 10 of them have up until this point reached the majors. It's a pretty decent number, okay? 2017, that number goes down slightly. They had 41 picks again, eight of which ended up being major league players. Davis Schneider is one of the great success stories from that class. 2018, 40 picks, six guys made it to the big leagues, nobody of real note there. 2019, 40 picks, five of which have seen the major leagues. And that includes Alec Benoa, who is probably their biggest success story because of the peak, the ceiling that he achieved as a young player, being a saw young finalist, and Spencer Horowitz was also in that class. And now this is where things start to pare down significantly. 2020, now mind you, much smaller draft. There's one guy though, out of all the picks. They had five picks, one guy, Austin Martin, and he was included in the trade that brought in Jose burrios. Also based on the evaluation, what we've seen so far might not be the greatest major league player. Like he's not, he's a major leader, but is he a good major leader? Different conversation. 2021, they made 19 picks, nobody has touched the major leagues yet. Now that's three years ago at this point, that included Ricky Tiedemann, that included Gunnar Holglin. 2022, 22 picks, we haven't seen anybody, Brandon Barrier was the first round pick and obviously last year. They just did 90 picks. Nobody's been up yet. Arjun Namala was the first overall pick. Within that, the amount of names as I cycle through, that I was like, I've never heard of this guy, or man, it's a short list of guys that I'm vaguely familiar with from various prospect systems and rankings, I think speaks to overall how this has become a failure. And 2016 is an outlier because as we already touched on the staff surrounding Ross Atkins at that point, the people who are overseeing a lot of this evaluation and the assessment process and coming up with the strategy as it pertains to the draft, they were then subsequently replaced right after the 2016 draft concluded. It was like Mark Ross was essentially saying, we have our own vision now, let's get rid of people, shuffle a whole new group in, and here we go and off they went. And since that point, they have not been able to supplement their system in any meaningful appreciable way. That has obviously been a massive failure, and quite frankly, I would argue because you can go out and this organization, this company has proven that they've been willing to invest in that team, this has got to be the biggest failure of that front office. Is this is something you control, you have a heavy hand in dictating the developmental process, the selection of young amateur players and the developmental process that they are going to go through in order to hopefully become major leaguers. That hasn't materialized in any way, shape or form outside of really one guy, Alec Manoa. That's it. And it's been super bleak and it's part of the reason why, like, yeah, you can talk about full teardown, somehow threading the needle of telling ownership that, yeah, you need a full teardown, but staying on the job. And then being optimistic about that is hard considering the lack of talent that has been internally developed by this Blue Jays team before Dig and Break, so here are the first round picks. Yeah. In the tenure. TJ Zweick, Nate Pearson, Logan Wurmoth, Jordan Grosjans, Alec Manoa, Austin Martin, Gunnar Hoagland, Brandon Brere, and Arjun Nmala, the last guys, like they're so recently drafted. It's hard to, like, the jury is out, but Brere is, I mean, he arrived one thing. Well, I mean, he arrived when Blue Jays, I remember the reports, they was like 50 pounds overweight, and then like internal brace surgery. So yeah, not looking great for the Blue Jays when it comes to the draft. They'll get another kick of the can, though, on Sunday, as the draft goes. 20th overall. 20th overall is their first pick. All right. When we come back, we'll talk to Michael Copeland, CEO of Woodbine Entertainment. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Danieli Franceski, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Unrivaled insight, analysis, and opinions on all things Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning shows, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Danieli Franceski, filling in for Brian Gunning coming up after eight o'clock. We'll talk to our pal Blake Murphy of Blue Jays talk plus as Blue Jays, even up their series with the San Francisco Giants. One more game this afternoon to wrap up that series before they wrap up the first half of the season in Arizona against the Diamondbacks. So they see their good buddy Matt Chapman in this series, they see a bunch of good buddies on the Arizona Diamondbacks to wrap up the first half of the season before the all-star break in the Home Run Derby, of which Teoska Hernandez, another good buddy, is going to be participating. Coming up next month though, 165th Kings Plate, August 17th airing both on Sportsnet and City TV streaming on Sportsnet Plus and City TV Plus, a new broadcast agreement between Sportsnet and Woodbine coming to fruition. Let's talk to the CEO of Woodbine Entertainment. It is Michael Copeland. How's it going, Michael? It's going well. How are you doing? Doing very well. So what does this partnership with Sportsnet mean? Well, first and foremost, it brings the Kings Plate to the Rogers family and having this iconic Canadian sporting event and such a big day in racing on City TV and Sportsnet is just amazing for Canadian race fans. So we're super excited about that and looking forward to working with Rogers on producing it and showcasing that day and the way that only they can do. So that's going to be amazing. And around that, it's part of a bigger broadcast initiative with Rogers where we're going to be showing not only other major races from Woodbine, so five other major races on the calendar, which will be shown across the Rogers channels, but also races from around the world. So it's an international series where we can bring races like the Melbourne Cup and the Breeders Steaks Classic races from Hong Kong, the US Triple Crown, Royal Ascot. All of this is now going to be available under one group, so it's going to be pretty special. So I love these big racing events. I love going to the racetrack as well. I haven't been this year, but last year I went with my wife who picked up a fascinator on Amazon. You got to get a fascinator, right? Like if you're a woman, you're going to the racetrack. I wore my suit and sweat through it. It's just part of going to the racetrack. I love that the Kentucky Derby has its own drink, right? The Mint Julep, does the Kings plate have its own drink? And might I suggest like looking into creating a signature drink for the Kings plate. We actually do have a signature drink. Now, whether our culinary team and are going to concoct a new one for this year, I think that's a details yet to follow, but we haven't pass created signature drinks and had them available throughout the property, and it's, you know, on Kings plate day, there's several different areas that have several different parties, but in all of them, the one thing that ties them together, other than the racing itself, is that signature drink. So it's, you know, it'll be on site, for sure. Michael, one of the things I'm always amazed by is just how, how enjoyable of an experience it is when you got to go to, you know, watch live horse racing. And it's something that, you know, I feel like is really an underrated, overlooked experience at times because, and heck, even right now, like we're, look at the time of year we're in where there's obviously all the traditional big market sports teams here in Toronto that are off for the time being, with the exception of the Toronto Blue Jays, and that's really the only ticket in town. You have this experience that is right in our own backyard that is constantly happening and it doesn't even have to just revolve around a big event. You can go down to Woodbine at any point to taking some horse racing. I just guess as someone that's involved in this on a daily basis, what do you think makes it such a unique spectacle to be in that environment and watch that sport unfold in person in that type of setting? Well, I mean, I think firstly, as you mentioned, it's so unexpected when people get on the property and they realize, you know, it's, it's beautiful. The grounds are beautiful. You're outside, you know, in the nice weather in Toronto, there's not a lot of places where you can actually get outside and space and it allows you to do that. There's, you know, the races come up every 25 minutes or so, so there's always something going on. It's usually, even if you don't have a bet on the race, most people sort of pick their favorite horse, their favorite color, their favorite number, and are interested to see how it's going to shape out. So they're engaged, oftentimes when I'm watching the races, I'll look around and watch the crowd and everybody's on their feet. And there's not a lot of sports that can claim that sort of level of engagement and interest. So everybody's into it. And then I know our team does an incredible job of just delivering an experience. If you're up on the Stell Terrace, which is our patio overlooking the track, the food is unbeatable, everybody's out, it's, it's all different, you know, ages, it's all different demographics. But everybody has this shared experience where it's super fun, we've got a DJ up there. And you know, in the summertime in Toronto, it's just an amazing experience. And then, you know, when you kind of think of what it all revolves around, it really does come down to horses. And you know, there's something special about horses, I would say that most people have just a natural, you know, emotional attachment to them, you're thinking yourself, if you ever drive them through the country and there's a pass by a field that has horses in it, most people point that out or turn their neck to look at it or, you know, if they're special animals and that would bind you get to get right up close to them and you get to see them in some amazing action. So you bring all that together and it makes for a really special day. Yeah, I might suggest to people if you are going to go down and go down to the paddock to look at the horses and you want to sound like you know what you're talking about and have people like talking to their friends like, what is, oh, this guy knows, he knows a little thing or two about the ponies mentioned the horses, Fettlock. It's like a part of the leg. This is my, my dad always said, like, well, look at that guys, look at his Fettlock as a strong looking Fettlock. Sure. That's a, you know, a little tip, but then you're going to have, you're going to have like nine people gathering around you. What do you like about it? No, I've been to the Steliterus. It was awesome. It is a tremendous, tremendous experience and I don't know, we'll for sure get out there again this summer. So, so Michael, people obviously know you from your previous time in the CFL as well, COO of the Canadian football league and then CEO of the Toronto Argonauts. I mean, how is that experience with that notable organization sporting wise and the, of course, notable team impacted your career and, and, and your next step of the way it would mine. Oh, that, I mean, it was much of a privilege to be part of the Canadian Football League and then the Argos and, and, you know, we had, we had success with the Argos and coming from a, it's been a difficult situation both on and off the field. But we, you know, through just really trying to understand, you know, what could be done and what the size of the opportunity, we were able to turn that around. And, and so I think it's just, just understanding that when you have something that means so much to so many people, that's a real gift and that's really something to work with. And, and it's taking that lesson applying it to horse racing. And so this is something that really does mean something to a lot of people. And, and it's, I think that the opportunity we have is just to redefine how we bring it to them. And so we talked about the on track experience and making sure it's, it's incredibly fun. It's incredibly lively. All the things, all the magic, we're just, you know, amplifying it and our team's doing an incredible job of doing that. We'll see that when you come up to the track. But in addition to that, you know, we've got this new, new opportunity now with sports betting in the province of Ontario, we can bring this to millions more people in a way that they're currently engaging with sports. And so, you know, that's a, that's a new opportunity for us to engage with sort of the next generation. And, and also to be creative and innovative about how we, how we show horse racing. You know, it's going to be different when you're, you're presenting a race alongside other sports in a sports betting app and, and how people see the race and how they engage with it. I think we need to challenge ourselves to say what can be new and different preserving all the, you know, the core stuff that, that makes it what it is. But, so we're having a lot of fun with that. We're having a lot of success with that. And I think it's opening our thoughts to an entirely new world of race fans. Yeah, I haven't talked to anybody who's been to Woodbine, like, well, that was a, I was underwhelming, just like universally always, always over delivers when you head down to Woodbine again, the one 165th Kings played Saturday, August 17th airing on both sports and at city TV and streaming on sports and plus and city TV plus Michael. Thanks so much for doing this. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. Thanks Michael. Michael Copeland, CEO of Woodbine Entertainment. So use that fat lock. I don't know what part of the leg it is. I think it's like the lower leg for the horse and Michael's right. You just hope that there's no follow up questions. But like, if you want to just, you know, just be the mysterious, like horse whisperer guy where you're like, Hey, check out number seven's fat lock. Yeah. Or maybe you want to mess with some people, you know, talk about like the heavy underdogs, like 100 to one. Yeah, I like that. I will 100% pull up and I make an annual trip every late July or August where we use the ponies as our way to determine draft order for a fantasy football league that I've been over many years. And it's now routine. That's tradition. Yeah, it's tradition. Every year we go down to Woodbine. And we gather a bunch of guys from the league, usually not not everybody, unfortunately, but you know, a large contingent. And we all sit there. And now I'm going to pull out fat lock. That's the word I'm going to throw out there this year. Yeah, I learned something. Yeah, as yeah, I mean, everybody should try to learn one new thing every day. And for you today, it's that lock is a thing. All right. Time now for the wake and right presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly afternoon action for the Blue Jays as they wrap up their series against the Giants in San Francisco. 345 today on Sportsnet Sportsnet 590 the fan Kevin Gossman against Jordan Hicks. Yes, that Jordan Hicks who's now a starter for the Giants and doing a pretty good job of it as well. The Blue Jays are the underdog only slightly though. It's basically a coin flip. Minus 105 Blue Jays Giants minus 115, the total seven and a half in this game, Danielle. I like the Blue Jays. I haven't been able to say that in quite some time, but I do. I think the offense obviously showed some signs of life yesterday. We've in line with some of the thematic composition of our show today talking about Kevin Gossman at times. Let's get a good Gossman outing on the books today, Ben. So sure, I'll go Blue Jays. I feel I'm feeling the J's today. Yeah, I think you score 10 runs in a baseball game and you're the Blue Jays and you have that offense probably hard to do consecutive days. I like the under seven and a half minus 105. And quickly, let's have a look at some NHL futures rocket Richard trophy winner Austin Matthews, the favorite at minus 115 naturally David Pasternak plus 550 Karel Kaprizov plus 750 heart trophy winner Connor McDavid plus 175 Nathan McKinnon plus 550 Austin Matthews plus 1000 Jack Hughes plus 1100 anything there stand out to you. Just the disparity in odds when you look at Austin Matthews in the rocket race compared to everybody else in the field. That is a huge gulf in terms of odds between him being the most significant favorite that you can possibly imagine for a preseason award that you're betting on in July. That's pretty wild to me. Yeah. And it doesn't job to me with him being the third favorite for the heart trophy plus 1000 agreed. I think where's the correlation there? Yeah. So I think if you're looking for value after a 69 goal season in which he was a silky trophy candidate, but not a heart trophy candidate, maybe a make good in the voters. I know there's a lot of Google scores in this league as a little bit surprised like Zach Hyman's name as I mentioned. I wonder where does Zach Hyman where is Zach Hyman on that list? Yeah. What are the odds for Zach Hyman and the rocket Richard Trump must be? That might sound crazy, but you know, he just had a terrific season. Oh, there he is. He's plus 2000. He's tied with Brayden Point plus 2000. Honestly, would not mind sprinkle. If you were like in the in the mood to sprinkle on random things and just say, Hey, take a long shot here that I would I actually think that's not a bad long shot at all. Sure. Yeah. Considering what he put for the season ago, that was the Wakenrake presented by sports interaction. Your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, we'll talk to Blake Murphy, a Blue Jays talk plus as the fan morning show continues Ben and as Danielle A. Franceski Sportsnet 590, the fan.
