[MUSIC] Don't admit to that. >> Bad morning, Joe Forsen, 5'9" is a fan band. And it's Danieli Francesco filling in for Brian Gunning. >> Yeah, Blue Jay is handing Logan Webb a career-worth stat line, taking game two of that series in San Francisco. Ernie Clement, yet another big blast off his shoe tops, playing a lot of golf. So that's- >> Yeah, I mean, he wouldn't be the first to- >> He wouldn't be the first major league baseball player on a road trip to bring the sticks. Maybe he rented his golf clubs, but yeah, that did remind me of a golf swing. Because he took a change up basically off a shoe top, so to left field in San Francisco yesterday. >> You don't see that happen. The location of the pitch, you sell them see Homer's head when a pitch is down at your ankles, and in fact, it's the first time ever in Logan Webb's career that he has allowed a Homer on that particular pitch in that particular location. And even funny enough to add to what is an interesting sort of development there as it pertains to the power and the home run in particular. He's now Homer in the back to back games, of course, identical three run homers. Both on breaking balls, both off speed pitches, which are the second and third of his entire career. So credit to Ernie Clemente, and obviously he's been integral to sparking the offense the last couple of nights. >> Yeah, I think Joe Siddle hit on it correctly as this guy came out of the chute and he had one scouting reporter was that this guy is hunting a heater. So if you throw one, he'll be looking for it. And he's punished a few, one of Yankee Stadium notably. I think the word is out though, that maybe you shouldn't throw him so many fastballs and he's adjusted nicely to that. I gotta say, I just hand up of all the players that were producing well in Buffalo over the last couple of years, he was the guy that was least bullish on just because of the age, because he's been around a while, because he has a little bit of a major league track record. Because his professional track record, his minor league track record. No doubt overwhelming, doesn't take walks. I mean, despite the homers in the last two games done hit home runs. He plays all over the diamond and the defense was pretty good. Well though, this year it's been kind of up and down, especially third base. But I've been impressed. He's bounced back after after like there was a month span there where you were looking at roster possibilities and I was like Daniel Vogelbog or like Ernie Clemente that could be DFA'd and I didn't think it was a non zero possibility. That was like a triple negative. I thought it was very possible that Ernie Clemente was DFA'd off this roster. He wasn't, he was Daniel Vogelbog and I mean, he's not going to be hitting the middle of your lineup if you're worth a damn, but yeah, he can be somebody's 26 man. Yeah, well, I think that's the key here for context. He probably, you know, he probably grades out his ceiling is that guy towards the back end of your roster that is more of a utility piece and 26 man role as opposed to somebody that's going to factor in prominently for a team that is not mediocre that has aspirations of actually accomplishing something in terms of making it to the postseason or even beyond that. But he has been a positive story. There's no doubt about it and deservedly so. I think in fact, if we even look at all the Buffalo guys, the Buffalo brigade as they were heralded when they first came up last year and we saw them a large contingent break into the major leagues really with the exception of Addison Barger. They've all been pretty decent like like to their credit, whether it's Horowitz or Schneider or Clemente, like they've all come up and actually contributed. Don't skip over Lao Jimenez. You know what? Oddly enough, I gotta be honest, it's been a, it's a small sample, but he's looked okay. Like Lao Jimenez has actually looked competent both at the plate and in the field. And yesterday is another situation where he's thrust in there because Bo gets hurt during the game. You know, David Schneider, same thing where he's thrust in because Dalton Varsho gets hurt during the game, but yeah, at least at the very least for a franchise that as we know has zero farm system depth right now. The fact that there happened and we were, we are going to get into that, which, because it's a prominent topic of discussion today. The fact that you have a few of those guys that success stories that are coming up and at least showing that they can acquit themselves well enough to be decent major leaguers. I think that's, I think that's encouraging and props are an inclement for how he's as you alluded to Ben turn the season around in the sense he went from being a guy that you're looking at on the periphery of the roster saying, okay, when player X returns from an injury or player X is ready to come up, he's the casualty. And now it's like, I mean, no, you feel what, semi comfortable that he should be in the lineup on a regular basis for this team. Yeah. And part of that is the competition behind him. It's not super fierce. Yeah, it must be said and you touch on the Boba Shedd injury. There was also a Dalton Varshow injury. Yeah. Maybe that that's where we should go next. It was nice win for the Blue Jays scored a bunch of runs against the Giants ace. That's really good. Like Logan. It's fun to score runs. Yeah. Logan Web is quite good and he's never given up seven runs at a start before. So doing that over five innings of work, the way this baseball game started is impressive. Like not only scoring seven runs against Logan Web, but Chris Bassett somehow getting through five innings. It looked like it was going to be a long night for Chris Bassett. The way this game started, it was kind of shocked that it ended almost at the same point that the basketball game, which we'll get to and then I thought, oh, for sure, we'd be looking at this game being an hour longer, despite the pitch clock changes to major league baseball. Chris Bassett had like 60 pitches over his first couple innings. 63, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It ended up with only 99 and it wasn't like had an overwhelmingly good stat line. He gave up three year and runs over five, but he kept his baseball team in the game and considering what the Blue Jays are working with from a bullpen perspective, hugely important. So Chris Bassett will also talk later on the show about Mark Feinstein's reporting yesterday on MOBLY.com about what the Blue Jays are thinking is a head towards the deadline, who could be on the block and who couldn't and he's one of the guys that according to reports will not be because he's under contract for next season. I will say, if I was a team in a postseason position looking to bolster my rotation for the postseason, he actually would not be a guy that I'd be looking at acquiring. But what he is is, okay, R.A. Dickey is the worst type of this guy, but somebody over a course of 162 game seasons, starting 30 plus times a year that you absolutely need. And the Blue Jays are happy to have them. We're all those guys that can put himself in troublesome spots, but has a career track record of baby being able to extricate himself as the ERA 352 and had the 200 innings last season. Valuable, valuable dude over the course of a regular season, I think and the Mets would probably tell you the same thing. When push comes to shove in a very important postseason position or a very important regular season game, because here's the thing, if that was a playoff game, Chris Bassett would not have gone five. He would have been lifted maybe in the first inning and certainly in the second inning before he got a chance to take himself out of those troublesome positions. But over the course of a regular season, because he has the built up equity of a track record of being able to get himself out of those positions, he was afforded the ability to do so by John Schneider. >> Yes, you're absolutely right. Also if there was a bullpen in place that was maybe a little bit deeper and laden with some better options, again, context of all of this is important, but I think your point is well-made. Yeah, the fact that he was able to extricate himself from some precarious positions in those first couple of innings speaks to just the overall resilience that he seems to bring every time he's on the mound. I would agree with your assessment that if you're a playoff team, he's probably not the ideal starter that you would be looking to pursue at this deadline, which in a weird way, given the profile of pitcher he is, doesn't it make more sense then to try and trade him now while he still has an extra year of full complete control over the course of the course? >> If there's value there. >> Totally. And I would argue, again, yeah, that is an important caveat for sure, like what is the value? Like if you were to dangle that carrot and use him as trade bait, what teams are coming to call, what are the packages look like, what are you getting in return? Because if it's nothing of consequence, then or major consequence, you're probably better off keeping that. >> I just look at a team that's in a playoff spot and what they'd be looking to acquire at the deadline. Because bad teams now make the playoffs with the three wild card system that even the Yankees with their incredible swoon, and it is, and they barely escaped to the win over the race as a race stink, and the Yankees were teetering in that game as Marcus Strowman couldn't get through five. >> I know. >> Okay, they're looking for guys that will help him in the postseason, again, no offense to Chris Bassett. I don't think he's helping anyone on a postseason. I really don't. I think if he's starting for you in the playoffs, he's your fourth starter and you're just hoping to get E5 and died, but like you're very aware of the possibility. If he gets into trouble, we're not letting him get out of it. I just, I know what you're saying, I think he's a very valuable guy. I think he's more valuable during the regular season than he is in the postseason. But I think that also plays into actually maybe the fact that this is the most opportune time to trade him then, because if you're going to, let's say it's a team that is on the fringes of the playoff race or is competing for a division title, and they're going to be playing meaningful games from August through out the end of September for a two month stretch, he might help you in those positions. And even if he projects as your fourth or fifth starter, like still, there's more value there now than potentially waiting. And you're not trading him as this premium asset that is, as you put it, a guy that is certainly a surefire bonafide option to be in a top three for a starting rotation come play off time. I think maybe that actually adds to the urgency of maybe trying to trade him because he does provide more value as a regular season asset, and not just as somebody that you might consider in the postseason, because yeah, there are other guys out there that you would prefer to line up for. Okay, hypothetically, I know you're probably going to, which direction you'll go here. But if you're in the market for trading, you're trying to look for a guy, a starting pitcher from this Blue Jays team, outside of you, Seikakuji, who's obviously an expiring contract. Kevin Gossman or Chris Bassett, more attractive? >> Honestly, I would say Kevin Gossman is more attractive right now, considering the upside, and I know it's been an uneven season for him, but we know proof of concept. There is a game one of a playoff starter in there for Kevin Gossman. >> But even in the postseason, historically, he hasn't been great. >> Sure. >> And he's a two-pitch pitcher, which again, evidence will tell you, history will tell you, that is not exactly the best recipe for success in the playoffs. Like it's just- >> Kevin Gossman was having a pretty good start before John Schneider went to the bullpen and he went to Tim Mays. >> Yes. >> 2022. >> Against the Seattle Mariners. >> 2020, I think- >> I mean, what is it for his example? >> That's a fair example. >> What is it for his postseason resume? How many stars does he have in the postseason? It's not a time check. >> It's not a, it's not a, I don't know. That's a good question. >> I mean, I would imagine he'd probably name it. >> It's three stars. He has three career stars. >> Yeah, was one with San Francisco? >> He has one with San Francisco. He has three relief appearances, previous to San Francisco, two with the Orioles in 2014. He was an entirely different pitcher. He had one start with the Giants, which wasn't like, it wasn't horrible, it wasn't good, oh, he went six innings, gave it four and runs and struck out seven. In his start in the aforementioned Mariners game, he gets tagged with a bunch of inherited runs, given up four earned over five and two thirds. Again, seven strikeouts and in his start against the twins, last season, gave up three and runs over four. >> Which that wasn't a great one. And I think- >> I don't think there's any debate that if you're a playoff team and you're projecting your postseason rotation, that you're looking at Kevin Gossman, despite the unevenness of this season, but just the upside potential, that Kevin Gossman, you feel more comfortable in a postseason start than Chris Bassett. I think if you want to fill out your rotation in April and you want to look at 30 plus starts, I think, yeah, okay, you could look at Chris Bassett as being the more likely guy to give you an accumulation of war over the course of a 162 game season. >> Team that comes to mind for example. Now mind you, they have a fair bit of pitching depth overall in their system. But if they're looking for somebody that's a little bit more established, veteran presence has pitched in the postseason, why can't Cleveland, for example, fancy pursuing Chris Bassett to say, okay, Chris, you're our fourth or fifth starter the rest of the way, helping us try and trend towards being the number one seed, win the division, secure those bonafides to get to the postseason. One playoff time, you might make one start, you might not, you might be on the roster, you might not, but then now we at least have you in the fold for 2025 as well. Like I do think there might be some suitors that see that as valuable and a luxury to have somebody with his experience level in the back end of a rotation the rest of the regular season. And then as an option at the very least for even some playoff baseball, whether that's in a starting capacity or not. Yeah, maybe if I was a guardians, I'd be looking at my division lead and how crappy the central is. And again, looking at the postseason rotation and him not being in it and saying like, I'm going to pay assets for that guy, why to solidify my rotation so that we can cruise to the central title. Okay, maybe I to me he wouldn't, hey, if somebody's willing to convince themselves that that's the case, I'd be open and open to trading any 35 year old starter, like there's just, there's no debate about that. But I to me, his value lies during the regular season. I expect him to be a Bluejay beyond July 30th. Okay. So you think you think even his value is better served. The Blue Jays are better served having him on their roster than just trading him as a, as an asset that has one year left, or even as an expiring asset next year, his he actually provides more value as a Bluejay than he doesn't. I mean, we're talking about a theoretical trade, like I don't like if Jackson Holidays on the table, I think I'm going to execute that trade, but I do think this is a Bluejay's team with five starters named blank in, in the AAA system, sort of driving it. Yeah, I get that. So I mean, the idea of trying to backfill already, I mean, whatever the rotation looks like next season without you say kakuchi and, and yeah, okay, Yariel Rodriguez is now like a bona fide part of your rotation next season, Kevin Gossman's year older and undoubtedly you have no Alec Manoa. You got to restock the cupboard somehow from a depth level and you got to restock what you're getting in 200 innings, at least last season, 30 plus starts at a crisp asset. Yeah, unless you're getting something pretty substantial in return, I think it's hard. If you're going to compete in 2025 and every indication is that the Blue Jays are trying to do two things. They're trying to restock the carpets as much as they can at the deadline and then get ready for another giggly can in 2025. I think that involves Chris Bassett doing his best Chris Bassett in interpretation. All right. So mentioned the couple of injuries. So Bo goes down with the right calf soreness, which is not great. That was the injury he sustained previously, they landed him on the IL Dalton Varshow trying to get the first base, stay in the game briefly and then departed left knee contusion. Those two players are good and have been good to various degrees. Dalton Varshow this season, we haven't seen Bo be good at all this season. Ernie Clement has two more home runs than Boba Shef this season like like let that sink in. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. Ernie Clement has multiple more home runs than Boa Shef. It's July. What is it? It's July 11th. Yeah. It's July 11th and Ernie Clement is leaving Boba Shef in the dust as far as his season home run totals are concerned. Dalton Varshow had the good little start this season. A June, oh, was awful and July hasn't been much better. I'm not saying like in an overall sense this is true, but right now the Blue Jays are better offensively with those two guys out of the lineup and I don't care who's back filling. The Varshow injury allowed David Schneider to re-enter the ballgame and he had a tough June 2, but had a couple of hits yesterday and we know he can take a walk, had a great catch as well, like, okay, and then we mentioned Leo Jimenez, who I don't know what he is, but the minor league track record is there and early returns at the major league level. Obviously, Boba Shef is an MVP candidate in prior seasons, led the American League in hits twice and could have been a third time if he didn't get hurt, obviously, obviously. You know what I'm saying? Well, good riddance, Boba Shef for Leo Jimenez, like that's not happening, but at the current moment in time on July 11th, the Blue Jays are better offensively with Boba Shef and Dalton Varshow at a lineup. >> Yeah, yeah, I mean, objectively they've been two of their worst offensive players for the entire balance of the season and I know Varshow has provided power at the very least, but the consistency hasn't been there. Am I a bad person, Ben, for having the thought in my head yesterday when I saw Leo Jimenez enter? I'm like, you know what? When am I seeing a little bit of him, like, just more of him, like, am I a bad person for thinking that? >> No, I mean, what you're gonna be looking at for this team past the deadline is the young players and seeing how much playing time they get and how they project into this lineup in 2025. >> And I mean, it is tricky because as we know when Bo is active, he's always gotta play short and that's where he is. So where do you fit in a guy like Leo Jimenez routinely? But I mean, I really liked what I saw and what I've seen to this point from a young player in Leo Jimenez that is coming up and really his promotion was a proxy of, or Elvis Martinez getting suspended along with injuries that have transpired to the point where now, okay, I guess now it's your turn, Leo Jimenez, to be on the Major League active roster. But yeah, there's no argument to be made in terms of the offense. If you look across the board, even with, you know, last night, it was great to see Alejandro Kirk finally do something. Like Alejandro Kirk has been fighting it and weirdly, it actually contributes to one of what I think is one of the more underrated storylines as it relates to the future of this team, which is what the heck do you do at Catcher? Like, what does that look like? Well, you know, Springer's starting to turn it around a little bit, and obviously- >> Yeah, the way George Springer looks right now is mind-bending to compare it to the way he looked the first couple of months. >> I mean, he looked completely lost, right? Think about it. He just, the quality of that bats and even, you know, even hard contact, I was not happening. Forget like bad luck. He couldn't even hit the ball hard. And yesterday he smoked a pair of doubles, which was really refreshing and encouraging to see. But totally, you feel better. And whether that's an IKF, when he comes back or even earning Clement at this point, I guess the one exception and the argument you can make as well, realistically, Kevin Kermeier shouldn't be playing anymore in this outfield. So then naturally, that would be Varsho's spot and center and then Schneider's in left potentially, which is probably a better overall offensive picture. But the way that they're currently deploying the team, then you're absolutely bang on. The team is better, unfortunately, when those two guys are not in the lineup at the moment. >> Yeah, because the younger players are performing at the moment. >> Yeah, the moment. >> Yeah, like, Leo Jimenez may cool off significantly, and they're like, where is Boboshette, obviously? Because Boboshette is a good player. I don't know what's happening this season. I do expect him to be better than one of the worst offensive players in baseball considering his track record, but, and maybe injuries are playing into the performance at the major league level. So couple of major league injuries, who blue Jays yesterday, and then the news not good at the minor league level for this blue Jays team. So the save and grace, I mentioned it in talking about Leo Jimenez over Boboshette earlier. At the July 30th trade deadline, when the blue Jays sell off their pending free agents, even if that's all they do, and it's Kevin Kurmer, and it's Justin Turner, and it's whatever Danny Jansen to a lesser extent because it's, yeah, the kukuchi, yeah, kukuchi plays into this. I don't think anybody's all geeked up to see more Brian Servin, which is what you're going to see at the catcher position. >> Please, no. I think people are, and should be rightly interested in seeing Addison Barger again, who's, I think, gone down to Buffalo, and he's picked up a couple of hits as well. Also Joey Votta with a couple more hits yesterday. >> He's behind Arjun Namala too, which is really interesting one too. Anyways, so yeah, there'll be some intriguing players. We lost the guy that was the most intriguing, right? Yeah, we had a Norelvis Martinez right at our fingertips, in fact, at the major league level before he departed forever. Maybe. >> Hopefully not. >> The next guy, the only other guy, that it was like, at the tippy top of the prospect pile for this organization and a top 100 prospect, and I don't know if Barger was in it at the beginning of the season, was Ricky Tiedemann, who had some injury concerns, but it was rehab and looked pretty good. Yesterday leaves his outing in Buffalo very prematurely, and you have to have one inning with forearm tightness, which is, it's the worst thing. Because I've seen people, when you say forearm, you can get as close to your elbow as- >> Exactly. >> Your UCL goes into your forearm technically, and that's what we're looking at with Ricky Tiedemann, who has a career of injuries of this nature, has never really put forth a fully healthy season. I mean, there goes the last bit of real excitement for this team post trade deadline. Like, I'll be excited to see more Lea Jimenez, and hey, can Spencer Horowitz do this for a whole season? And Davis Schneider, can he get back to what he was? And hey, Ernie Clement, can you cement yourself as an utility player? I'm Brian Survin, you're gonna like, do you have a major league future? Yeah, you're probably just like a journeyman backup catcher, but that's fine. From the pitching side of things, there's nobody- >> There's zero. >> Yeah. >> He's the one guy. >> Yeah. >> He's the one guy. And now we're like, he looks at the Nate Pearson injury trajectory, and he's like, you're pretty healthy, man. How do you pull that one off? I think, and we'll see, maybe I'm overdoing it, but it's hard not to go down that path considering the career to this point, and considering where he was this season, he was rehabbing the same injury. Also Adam Macco, like I don't know if he was gonna- >> I saw this in AA something happening. >> Same thing. >> Okay, another forearm. >> Forearm tightness. Also rehabbing forearm tightness. So good stuff. So those like, and I don't know if Adam Macco was ever in the plans to arrive this season, but he's at AA. >> Don't let your stones throw away and continue for form. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he could show up. Those two guys, the two shining beacons, as we say, the like Blue Jays draft track record conversation for after seven o'clock, the two guys that Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins might have been able to point to, yeah, I mean, their seasons are very much thrown up in the air. This, unfortunately, this story has played out many times in Major League Baseball over the years. Even more recent example that pops into my mind is a guy like Shane Bos with the Tampa Bay Rays been. >> Sure. >> Right? Like who's finally back in the big leagues this year who just, I think he just got called up either last week or two weeks ago after being in the minors for a good solid two plus seasons when if we recall he debuted, I think it was in 2020 and everybody was just losing their mind at the arsenal and how dynamic he was. And yet what happens suffers a series of arm related injuries. He's not the same guy and you see it again and again with a lot of these young prospects. Unfortunately, this is part of the risk that comes with it. But for whatever reason, I will say, I don't know if this is an, if it speaks to something the Jays have done or that they're not doing, but it does feel like they sort of fall victim to this a lot. Like they have certainly in the life cycle of this front office. When you think of Pearson's trajectory initially to where he ended up to now having a guy in Ricky Tiedemann who's going through this a lot and he's 21 years old. So at a certain point, guess what, if this persists and you get into his age, you know, we don't see him in the big leagues for another season or more than that and then you're trying to build up his innings and by the time before you know you blank and he's 24 years old and as you get to pitch a full major league season at this level, you're going to feel like he's no longer a real prospect because frankly, at that age, is he really a prospect anymore? And you know, I think I point to even a brand in Bariara who they drafted a couple years ago, right? Ben, he's been in the same boat, like these guys haven't pitched more than 60 innings in a season. And he's had surgery now, he had the same surgery that Alec Manoa had the internal brace surgery. I mean, fingers crossed for Ricky Tiedemann's sake, it's not something that needs to be repaired surgically or there isn't a meeting that needs to have be held with Dr. Meister because we know that's essentially for pitchers, unfortunately, a sentence of, hey, you're going to be on the shelf for the foreseeable future with a significant injury. But this is something that is a theme, it's a theme around baseball. But it also obviously speaks to the fact that there is nobody in the system that you can point to beyond a very slim, lean number of guys, and that's problematic. It really is problematic because we just talked about it with a guy like Bassett who's 35. You're leaning on a 35 year old in Chris Bassett, a 33 year old in Kevin Gossman, pose a burials who has posted year after year after year to continue doing that and remain dependable. Reality is one day you're going to wake up and there's going to be holes there. So who's going to fill those holes? In other organizations, even I think of even Detroit, who hasn't been very good for many years. At the very least, they can say we've been able to churn out some decent major league pitchers on occasion. Terrick Schoolwell, Casey Mys, like there are guys that come through the system and this chase team has nobody, nobody for years now that you can point to and say that's a success story of a pitcher that they've drafted, developed or signed and developed and has now had a successful career or at least even a stint in the major leagues. That hasn't happened yet for this organization. Should have traded Ricky Tiedemann yet honestly, I mean, I mean, you should always trade your prospects. I'd say 2020, but it is well, I don't know if you're pitching prospects. Yeah, I guess. So that I guess that's the lesson. The pitching prospects. Yeah. So again, I mean, you're going to save this conversation for after seven o'clock. Blue Jays, June amateur player draft coming up on Sunday and their lack of success over what is now almost a decade coming up on the ninth draft for Ross Atkins Sunday. As you mentioned, minor league depth. Here are the top seven pitchers as far as games started for the Buffalo Bisons this season and their numbers. Okay. Okay. The guy with the most starts, Bisons this year, a guy named Andrew Bash, so I had a quadrillion round pick, he started, he started 13 games, nice little year, a three, six, nine, but you look like just one step under the hood. He is like walks per nine of four and a half, like he walks everybody, Chad Dallas, whoever you are. I feel like we've heard of him before. He sure. 12 games started. You probably never going to hear about him at the major league level. His array is six nine two in the international league. Not good. Paolo Espino. We've seen him. Oh, yeah. Major league level. Okay. Bye. Yeah. 10 games started, robust ERA of five, not good. 10 games started for Paolo Espino. 10. I can't believe that this is still happening. 10 games started for Aaron Sanchez. Aaron Sanchez trying to revive his professional career. He's he's made tied for the third most starts for the Buffalo Bisons with an ERA of 10 four five. Oh, good. Real that we keep doing this with this guy who's throwing like 82. What would he need to have been in order for him to actually get a cup of coffee again in the major league? I mean, some success. Well, no, no, but literally, because I think it's a pretty low bar. I actually think if that guy goes from having a 10 year eight to like five and a half where he has a stretch of five good starts, there's a there's actually a potential pathway. I would not be stunned. I honestly, would you be stunned if Aaron Sanchez may start this thing? I would. He's been so abysmal and like the stuff is so gone that yeah, I mean, yeah, it would be the path I just laid out of like have a respectable sort of, I don't know, two months simple. I don't think he's capable of that. Pretty clearly with the 10 four five here. Right. Yeah, real Rodriguez has as made tied for the fifth most starts with seven and he's was good in Buffalo because he appears to be good. Yeah, near a one three three, both Salsa also making seven starts with Buffalo. Yeah, six eight seven ERA and Troy Watts and also seven games started eight one six ERA for all of us. So that's what you're looking at as far as your minor league depth and starting pitching and the hope that exists outside of Ricky Tiedemann and to a lesser extent, Adam Macko. Again, we'll revisit this conversation because it's one very much worth having after seven o'clock and some great numbers laid out by Ben Nicholson Smith on sportsnet.ca yesterday. But when we come back, we got our first look at Canada men's Olympic basketball team playing the Americans with what two of the 10 greatest players in the history of the sport on the other side. Good start. Poor finish. We'll talk about it and more next is the fan morning show continues Ben and it's Danielle a French Esquis sports at 590 the fan dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL, the JD bunk is podcast subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts fairly well. Canadian men's basketball team, they're off to Paris today. I believe their flight goes straight from Las Vegas to Europe. The American team, they're going like Saudi Arabia Abu Dhabi. Yeah, Abu Dhabi first, then they're going to, so they're playing two games there. They play two in London after. Yeah. Abu Dhabi. Yeah. Yeah. So there. How much did Abu Dhabi pay for that? A lot. I would imagine. Anyways, we got our first look at this Canadian men's Olympic basketball team headed back to the Olympics for the first time since 2000 in Paris at the end of the month. We got to see our first look at them against the Montana Americans who've won six of the last seven Olympic gold medals. They're quite good and they have like their best players. Yeah. Safe for Kevin Durant, who's injured right now, safe for Kawhi Leonard, who's always injured and like the idea that he wasn't going to play for the Clippers at the end of the postseason last year and then play for team USA was always head scratch. He's off. He's off the team. Derek White is on it. Anyways, Canada loses 86, 72 in Vegas to the Americans yesterday. Lots of energy to start. Yeah. Great start. Excellent start. Well, horrible start for the Americans. It was like, oh yeah, these guys haven't picked up a basketball in months. This is what it looked like. A lot of clanging, a lot of turnovers and the whole game really filled with turnovers for the Americans. But people are diving all over the court early in that basketball game. Hustle was there. Yep. I don't know if there's a ton to take away. Obviously, the size discrepancy was going to be an issue between these two teams. Also the fact that like, yeah, the Americans go to their bench and they're like, oh yeah, we'll just go to Jason Tatum and like Anthony Edwards, whereas the Canadian bench. Anthony Davis. Yeah. Who had a brilliant amount of any American. I mean, how many blocks did you have? Not four blocks. Yeah. Four blocks. Do you have a box square? I do. Where do you find that? I believe it was on the through the U S basketball cast they had. Yeah. It's an exhibition game. So not like readily available. In fact, there was like some weird, there was a moment there. I feel like it was an Anthony Edward shot that like went off the back of the backboard. I was like, yeah, yeah. Are defeat the rules allowed for the ball to hit the back of the backboard? Okay. So just for clarity on this, the only time in Phoeba, the ball is out of bounds is if it touches the top of the stanchion, the shot clock, if it goes over the backboard, it is not out of bounds. So that was where everybody kind of froze exactly and Anthony and that was Anthony Davis collected the offensive rebound and laid it in. Everybody's like, confused. I even know and and God loves Gus, I love Gus Johnson, even he was like, he didn't know what happened. I didn't even talk about the pocket. I just saw that the score go up by two. I was like, Oh, and then, you know, it's not pointing like it was good. Yes. I was like, wait, is anybody going to clarify that the basket? I actually counted. But that is the reason Ben is because in Phoeba, if the ball goes over the backboard, it's still in play. And the only time it stops is if it touches and in a lot of venues, like you'll see it has most of the that stanchion portion has like, you know, what is it? Geez, offset. Yeah. Kind of so. And basically, if it hits it, then then it's considered dead. Sure. But if it goes over, it's still in play and that's what unfolded yesterday in that situation. Yeah. I don't know how I feel about that rule. I love the ball off the rim and get out of here. Like if you can't, if you can't get it, if you can't hit nothing but net, you deserve to have your shot potentially swatted off the rim. I mean, it would have changed the course of raptors history, obviously. The fruit. Imagine. Yeah. Yeah. You're allowed to just want it once it hits suspended in the air for three seconds and then so Joel means like, no, yeah, get off the road. Go. Get out. That would have been quite a thing. If you miss swatting that four times. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. Joel Embiid, part of yesterday's game as well, the American Joel Embiid, as we well know. Yeah. Born Cameroon. I love actually as an aside on that one. So Grand Hill was on the broadcast. So he did like a press conference before the game, but he joined Gus Johnson and Bill Raffordy on the on the Fox broadcast and he was very, he goes. We recruited him hard so much so that they literally helped him get the citizenship to be able to bring him into the fold as a USA basketball athlete. That was literally part of what they helped him do. Brian didn't need to do that. Come on. Yeah. Come on, man. Really? Probably. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He didn't talk about it. Literally. Nobody else. He's like, Hey, the other guys, we were just, they asked you know, how cool was it and how did you factor into building the way we want to best, you know, build the best team. Obviously have, you know, a mixture of legends, but focus on the best overall culture for the group. But with Joellen beat in particular, he was overt and very explicit in saying we recruited him hard. I thought Dwight Powell kind of acquitted himself pretty nicely physically, especially early in the game and then taken the forearm shiver to the face. That was great. Yeah. That's fantastic. Interesting for an exhibition game. Anyways, this doesn't change anything and obviously when the games matter, there'll be a different level of intensity. There'll be more exhibition games in their back pocket. They'll be more practices to be had and more aggressiveness, honestly, from Canada's best players. Yeah, the Americans are the Americans and they can roll off, you know, a guy that could have been an NBA finals MVP off the bench and Anthony Edwards, who's single handedly led his team seemingly on a deep postseason run. I do not feel though about this Canadian men's basketball team the same way I do about the soccer team. I'm not talking about yesterday, yesterday is just an exhibition game, it means nothing. And the Americans are kind of a different example. Like, if Canada gets through its group and it's the Americans they lose to in a knockout stage game at the Olympics, okay, there's a level of, hey, what are you going to do? And do they acquit themselves? Like, do they put up a fight against what is the dream team redox and the final time we're going to see LeBron James and Olympics, okay. So yeah, the expectations are already that they exist with this team, whereas we're still learning what's happening with Canada's soccer. And there is still top end talent on the Canadian soccer team. We're talking about second place runner up finish in the NBA MVP voting and Shay Gilgis Alex Andrew. This Canadian team, a lot of people, they're viewing them as the biggest potential threat to the Americans when it comes to winning the gold medal in Paris. Yeah, I think what you're, what you're hidden on here is the fact that the innocent climb, that innocent ascent is over and rightfully so, because we've been waiting for this moment, this opportunity for decades dare I say, or more than certainly more than a decade. Yeah, and it's a shame we didn't get to see them and more like in an Olympics four years ago, where the expectations aren't as high, but sorry, you didn't qualify and now you're immediately thrown into the fire. You put all your eggs in one basket here and this is now the best collection of talent that you ever had. And understandably, this being billed as the golden generation for Canadian basketball, there are expectations, rightfully so. And I think the way you portrayed it, the way you laid it out in terms of if hypothetically it was Canada losing to the United States in a knockout game, I think you would have to live with that, you would have to acknowledge that the United States is still just that much better based on talent alone. Like forget anything else, talent alone, unfortunately, you can't hold a candle, that's the American. Nobody can. Nobody can. Now, can you beat them? I think sure, but how you do it is the key, Canada's way of beating them would be is going to be different, their route, their path to beating the United States in a game is different than what Serbia's will be, for example. It's a different looking basketball game. Now, the United States is on their quote unquote revenge tour, like one thing we can celebrate and we should, there should be a level of pride attached to this. The fact that the reason their team is so loaded and the reason LeBron is there, the reason KB's back there, the reason Steph is there, part of that equation, and mind you, they're all motivated by the simple fact of trying to win a gold medal. But it's because the United States failed to finish on the podium last year at a major international competition in men's basketball, which never happens. And that was part of the motivation for them taking this so seriously to go and assemble this star-laden roster to the point where now they've obviously labeled this as the revenge tour or some people are calling it the redeem team 2.0 based off of what transpired last year. So I think that's why even last night, why were there so many eyeballs on that game? Yeah, part of it is because it's the United States and you're excited naturally to see all these different players, all these different superstars come together. It's always fun every four years, LeBron and Steph, the show at the court at the same time. Unbelievable, right? But I do think there was an element of it being Canada USA and the history of what happened last year factoring in to just the added level of intrigue surrounding an exhibition game that in the grand scheme of things obviously means nothing, probably meant more for Canada than for the United States, but I do think Canada has been complicit in helping the United States build this team. In a weird way, they have been complicit in helping them assemble what might be one of the greatest teams on paper in terms of pure talent that we've seen the United States ever put together. And they'll wear that because they get that bronze medal from the FIFA World Cup that they get to wear as a result of that. See, the Americans are like, they're a different conversation, but I don't care if Canada is in the group of deaths with Australia, Greece and Spain, like, gotta come out of that. No, no, no. That should not be, we should not be concerned about that. No, no, no. There's no similar conversation. I don't care about Janis. I agree. It doesn't matter. There's enough talent on this team and just about everybody on the roster being an NBA rotation player, wild wacky stuff. It's great to see Jamal Murray and Shay Gilchis Alexander sharing four at the same time. We would like to see like a more commensurate version of Jamal Murray than the one we saw yesterday. We only hit one three. Wasn't representative of him, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. But we've seen Shay Gilchis Alexander at his best in international play, like almost single handedly getting Canada over the finish line against Spain and hitting one of the biggest shots in recent international history for this team. So yeah, yesterday didn't do anything to quell the excitement around this team, but yeah, the Americans were at a different point. Like honestly, we're talking about a team that has LeBron and Steph Granite, the Twilight versions of those guys, but you cannot argue with Nikhil Alexander Walker coming off your bench compared to like Jason Tatum. You know, but here's the tricky part with this, like, and we saw this, again, it's different because of who was playing for the United States last year. Mind you, they still had obviously a roster that was all 12 guys were NBA players. Like wait, that needs to be stated and not just and then the guy that the offense should go through and Anthony Edwards according to him, not just, but not, not even like they're not average NBA players. They were they were above, they're all above average. Yeah. Players were talking about, you know, Michael Bridges, who just got traded for a king's ransom this offseason. Why? Because he's a good player. Anthony Edwards, who is a superstar and is a budding star in this league. He continues to make strides and as we saw last night is one of the most electric talents that the United States has to offer at this particular point in time. Austin Reeves was on that team who's a quality NBA player. Like they had good players. Now do they have legends on their team? No, different story. I did think though, if we look at how Canada played, and Jordy Fernandez made this comment post game, that he was not happy with how they played. No, he wasn't. Because for good reason, they didn't play very well. And this game, as I said a few moments ago, should have meant a lot more to Canada than the United States. Because if even from just a pure preparation standpoint, forget the flags. Let's say we stripped away the flags and said it's team A versus team B, team A being Canada, team B being the United States. Team A had a lot more at stake in this game. Why? Because they only have such a limited runway to prepare for this event. And I'm curious, I want to make sure we confirm this with Blake too, who's going to join us later on, because from my understanding, they only have one other exhibition game scheduled against France. And that's why, as you mentioned, Ben, they're flying to Paris, right? They're going out to France and they're going to play. On the broadcast, I think they mentioned that they had like three or four. So that's what I'm confused with. You can find note, the United States, it's all clearly laid out. This is what we're doing. This is who we're playing. This is, these are the dates. This is everything. Even just from like a logistical standpoint, this is like as a Canadian basketball fan, bit of a gripe for me. I'm looking, I'm trying to figure out when, who are they playing and when are they playing? Because if that's game one of five, I will feel differently. But if it's a game one of two, that game should have meant the heck of a lot more. Because it's only one of two final dress rehearsals that you have to show us how you're going to deploy this team. And for even those guys to get a sense of how they're going to be utilized. Here's what I didn't like that I do think is applicable. I don't like that the minutes for shade, Gil just Alexander and Jamal Murray weren't staggered. The fact that they basically played exclusively together, which is not the way you need to deploy them and the best use of how they can maximize their skill set and their offensive prowess. I didn't like the fact that you ran your second quote, unquote, all your reserves together as a full blown second. It was a hockey line change and the Americans came back with their starters and they stayed with it. It was it was played as if the result of the game didn't matter, which obviously it doesn't. But that it was that it was managed in such a way that it felt like Jordy Fernandez didn't care about what the final result was. You're right. It was coached and managed like there were five more of those, which this is what I want to know. Is that the case or not? Because if it's not the case, then I think we can poke holes and ask questions. Now, even in terms of tangible things, basketball wise, Kelly Olinik is a turn style. Kelly Olinik is going to kill this team defensively. Ben, that's where Dwight Powell and I even joked about this yesterday watching the game. I'm like, man, if only Dwight Powell hate to say this was three three inches taller, man. Like it's set because he can do things that no other Canadian big, Zac Ebe included who everybody was obviously clamoring to have on this roster. He does things that even that guy can't do. But Kelly Olinik is going to kill this team. I'm thinking about him trying to guard the, you know, the Australian bigs as they're cutting and moving off the ball routinely or the Spanish bigs who are terrific pastors and operate in the high post and low post actions as pastors and as initiators and facilitators. How are you going to guard that? How are you going to survive that? Those are the tangible things we can actually point to. And I think there is something to be said about using that game as the proper training ground to actually say, he mentioned it before the game, Jordi, that he was excited that they finally had the opportunity to compete against someone other than themselves. Well, guess what? You kind of packed it in early, man. You kind of sent the wrong message in that sense because the game was there to be won. And I don't care when you're playing the United States, if it's on the moon or if it's in the middle of Alaska, or if it's in January when they have their C team on the court, you're playing the U.S. try and win the game. It means something. It means something to people like me, like other basketball hardos that have been on this country and have been following it. It means something to try and beat the United States, especially when they have their best players out there. I was excited for the narrative that would have existed around granted, like meaningless game. But if Canada had won that thing, we would have treated it as more than meaningless. Yeah. Boy, would have been nice to see that team with Zack Eadie as well. They're going to miss Zack Eadie, I think, be a nice big to have. All right. Time now for the Canadian football report brought to you by Securian Canada, the official life insurance partner of the CFL headed into week six in the CFL, two undefeated, two winless teams this season, the own five Hamilton Tiger Cats on the by. So I'm not going to pick up their first win this week, maybe in a scrimmage. The week starting in Montreal is the Argonauts. They're in town to play the Alawettes for the second time already the season. It's a rematch. Last season's East final despite throwing four interceptions, the Argos lost last Thursday. Cameron Duke's getting the start. Al is chasing their first six and O starts since the 06 season, but more importantly, went over Toronto, giving them the season series as they won the first showdown in week four. Second game of the week also has a season series on the line Friday night. The Calgary stampede is looking to get the decisive win over their West division rivals, the Winnipeg blue bombers coming off their first win last week after being in the breakup final last year, Saturday's CFL matchup could be the game of the week, undefeated Saskatchewan rough riders get their toughest test so far. They head into BC place to face the four and one Lions team that has rattled off four wins in a row. It was home last week Sunday night as Shea Patterson did not show any jitters in his first start in place of the injured Trevor Harris, Lions D also generating five turnovers and a pair of defensive touchdowns. They ran up the score on the tie cats who as I mentioned are windless. The Leo's win, it would have them leapfrog the riders, put them on top of the West division and the finale of week six has the O and four elks looking for their first win of the year coming off there by extra long week Edmonton actually three and a half point favorites over the red blacks in this game despite not having a win this season. And the reason for that elks have had a tough schedule to start the season. They've already faced the top teams in both the West and the East and Saskatchewan BC Montreal and Toronto add on to that that their last three games have all been losses of just three points auto on the other side. So uncertainty and quarterback Drew Brown left last week's game against the bombers did not return a lot of people think this could be the week the elks pick up win number one of their 2024 season. And that was the Canadian football report brought to you by security in Canada the official life insurance partner of the CFL when we come back. The insiders are starting to ruminate about potential possibilities surrounding the Toronto Blue Jays. Some interesting nuggets from MLB.com's Mark Fine sand will get into that and more next As the fan morning show continues, Ben Annis Denielle, Franceski Sportsnet 590, the fan.
