(♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪♪' And Morning Show's 4.759 of the fan band. And it's Frank Gunning. There is an American presence in the semifinals of the Copa America held in the United States. It's Jesse Marsh, head coach of Team Canada, as the Canadian men getting set to play Argentina for the second time in this tournament. First time, it ended up on the losing side of a 2-0 score line, but held their own, had chances. Maxime Carpo made a couple of a glorious saves. Carpo! He'll be asked to do more of the same, you would imagine, tonight. Like a lot of that in East Rutherford, New Jersey. Time now for our Insider, brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom. Visit DonValleyNorthlexus.com. But today's Insider, Josh Kloke of the Athletic, who's latest as a maritime messy, the napper, and the rock inside the Canadian team taking on Argentina. How's it going, Josh? Good morning from New Jersey. I'm still on the hunt for Bruce Springsteen. I'm still doing my Soprano's impression. It's fantastic. It's sunny, it's game day. Everybody's ready. Holy cow. Yeah. Who'd have thought, like, yeah, this is, yeah, all of us. Who'd have thought, even going back to when this team qualified for the World Cup, we saw how those three matches ended up, held their own against Belgium with the last two of the group stage, not overly positive. But here we are, just months later, new head coach, and they're on the verge of, it would take the biggest upset in this country's sporting history to do so, but on the verge of the final of the Copa America. Just frankly, Josh, like, do you think they have a shot at all, tonight, against the number one ranked FIFA nation? Sure, they have a shot. It's very, you know, Lloyd Christmas. You're telling me there's a chance, like, you can, you can ugly it up in a game, and look, Canada has a ton of quality on and off the ball. Argentina is in a different stratosphere, but you can, you know, technically ugly it up on the ball. You can try and get a surprise goal because we know Argentina is going to score. Maybe you can force penalties. I know Jesse Marsh, you know, was talking about that before you had me on. So there is a chance you can do this. I mean, upsets happen. That's why we play the game. I don't think Lionel Messi is, is that perfectly full health? So, of course, there's, there's a chance, right? It's, it's incredible to be a team, not just in this game, but any team, like psychologically, when you are just playing with house money, right? And if Canada lose tonight, they can go home with their heads held very, very high. Argentina can't do that, right? You have to remember that this, this game in Metlight Stadium, it's going to be 99.9% Argentine fans. That's reality. If they go up by one or two, that's great. You feel like you have like a small city behind you. If by some chance they go down and those fans turn on you, that, that home field advantage disappears. It becomes home field pressure. And that's a really difficult thing, like a difficult mental hurdle to get over. So it's going to be on Canada to try and, you know, run them and press them into kind of submission. And, you know, maybe you can do it in penalties, but for sure, there's a chance because if you're Canada, you, you feel incredible about where you are. You don't have to worry about losing in the way that, you know, Argentina does. If Argentina lose this, they have to go home as national shapes, right? Canada doesn't have that. So there is a chance, I guess, is what I'm getting at. Yeah, and I mean, the other part of it is like we're talking about the incredible story that is Canada's soccer. And that's definitely our angle on it. But from Argentina's perspective, you know, not that they would feel great about like losing to Brazil or somebody of that ilk. But at least you can sit there and go, OK, like, this is a nation of our peers. They, you know, they can respect Canada all they want. They're still not necessarily, I don't think, looking at them that way. You know, there's some we've talked about. And, you know, for me, the moment these stories go from being a story of interest to us really caring is when we stop talking about, well, how much do we care? And we start talking about what's actually happening out there. One of the things that I think is kind of going under the radar is that the size of the pitches are just flat out smaller in Copa, America. I think it's six shorter, six less wide. And then the other dimensions, a little shorter as well. Do you think that kind of plays into or against Canada's favor? Because, I mean, you know, you, you cover hockey as well. And we certainly have conversations about big ice versus small ice. Do you think that the size of the pitches is really kind of impacting these games kind of one way or another? Yeah, I think the size of the pitch and the pitch quality does impact the game. You know, Jesse Marsh was asked about this yesterday about, you know, pitch quality. And he said, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but he said, I hope the pitch is of poor quality because when that happens, when the pitches, you know, in busted up shape, it's harder for players to play on the ball. It's harder for players to play, you know, beautiful, silky football. So that's going to help Canada in that regard. Yeah, I think your analogy to smaller rates is good. We know that, you know, Swedes and Finns and Russians do an extent, you know, are raised with more space. So they're raised with, I guess, just like painting with a wide brush, but like better puck skills and they can make plays that, you know, maybe a lot of Canadians don't learn to make because they have to learn to play. Physical and tighter spaces. I think that's what Canada is going to try to do. I think you're going to see Canada try to come out as the aggressors tonight because you get one chance to do this, right? And you get one chance in your career to bully Messi. You're going to try and take that. There's a number of Canadians. I think that know that next thing too, you're talking about things we have talked about. A lot of Canadians could see their careers defined tonight. And they know, even though it's not the first thing they'll talk about, they'll know that like a 10 out of 10 performance tonight against Argentina can change the trajectory of your career. Clubs will take notice. Clubs will offer you different contracts because you were the guy that quote unquote, you know, shut my message out. Right. We talked about Maxime Crapo. We're still talking about what he did in the tournament opener, right? His career is. Is he in Messi's head? Is he in Messi's head? Are you going to have to ask the question? Hi, politely. I don't think anybody is in Messi's head right now. politely. I don't think the greatest player to ever play the game is all that worried about, you know, the cerebral docile Maxime Crapo. But I mean, Crapo knows that he can stop him. So there's all these other little psychological factors. And again, if you're Argentina, your guys are already playing in the best clubs in the world. But like we don't even have to pick a Canadian name, but we know that there are players who are on the come up and they know that if I shut down Messi tonight, if I lay a tackle in on him that changes the course of the game, that's a clip that is going to go around the world and it's going to make people go, wait, who's this guy? So there's so much more at stake here that I think people recognize and that's why I do think you're going to see a real genuine, I don't know cliche, but a real genuine Canadian effort tonight. And frankly, like, is that not all like, you know, people back home talk for neutral, because that's not all they want. Yeah, I mean, doing what they did in the group stage match, the first match of this tournament scoreless at halftime would be what an exhilarating second half this could be. Jacob Schaffelberg, for me, is one of those guys whose name is now like just ingrained in my head now. When it comes to this squad, you're doing a great job of covering this team on location for the athletic and a very heart-wrenching story about Steven Eustachio losing both parents over the last couple of years as well. But in that locker room and talking to the players since the victory on Friday against Venezuela, what do you sense is the level of belief from the players themselves? No word I keep hearing and it's the kind of thing that does make you want to run through a wall. The word I keep hearing from this team is fearless, right? They have nothing to lose and they're going to play like it. There is a high amount of belief in this team right now because like again, they have that kind of fearless emotional component and they have that under John Herdman, right? Going into the 2022 World Cup, this team was built on emotion, the culture and character because that was something that had long been lacking in its men's national team, right? John Herdman did a fantastic job to build up the floor to change the culture of belief in this men's national team. We all remember the brotherhood, but what was missing I think back then was a real heightened tactical component. And now when you talk to players, they say what's different is yes, we still feel that brotherhood, we feel that emotional, fearless pull, but players are so much more tuned in to where they need to be on the pitch, what their tactical responsibilities are so that in different game states, they know what to do, they know where to be. Maybe they didn't have that before and when you have that edge as well, and that's all credit to Jesse Marsh, when you have that edge as well, you can be that much more confident because you know if things don't go your way, you literally know what to do. Players have told me again and again what they do in practices, training sessions prepares them for the next game in a way that past coaches did not prepare them, right? And that's what Jesse Marsh is, Jesse Marsh is a real tactical brain and that's what he's got them tuned into doing. So there's another like just an added layer of confidence there that I think players didn't feel in the past and that's why they feel they can go into this game against Argentina and like quite literally even against the best team in the world, one of the best teams like of this generation and they can quite literally know what to do. Like we've all been there before when you go into like a big day at work and you're like not prepared and people can sniff out that anxiety, right? I think Canada feel prepared and I think that's what makes them feel dangerous. Speak for yourself. I am the utmost professional and have never in my no, you're right. We've all we've all been there for sure. Good to ask you a soccer layman question here, but I think this is what a lot of people have. Why do they have Alfonso Davies so far back there and would it not be more beneficial to have him play in like left midfield as opposed to left back? I this is the thing I keep coming to is every time he gets the ball. It seems to be make and runs and good things happen and you know and Schofelberg's up there on the left side. It seems to go a little better. What why like what is the benefit of having Davies in the left back spot as opposed to kind of moving him up because in other iterations of this Canada team, we have seen him playing up more before. So there are some very, very good soccer bars across the country and you figured out the best way to walk into a soccer bar and just show your question and get the whole bar debating. You figured it out like that. I'm not something that is still a million dollar question in Canadian soccer circles is where should Alfonso Davies play at Bayern his club team. He's progressed from a left back to more of a like we would call it like a left wing back like an outside midfield role. It is a great question and there was a long time, you know, especially when I began covering this team that I was consistent. Alfonso Davies is your best player. He's probably the best player in this program's history. You should have your best players in attacking roles. But what's happened since Alfonso Davies really came onto the scene in 2018 is Canada has developed, you know, better attacking players. You need Alfonso Davies according to Jesse Marsh. And I think I'm inclined to agree with it. My thinking is kind of shifted. Yeah. You need Alfonso Davies. You need Alfonso Davies left back because the teams that you're playing are just as fast or just as talented. So you literally need a last line of defense that is speedy and can recover when teams hit you on the counter attack. Right. If you had someone a little less fleet of foot in that left back position, you know that you're going to get hit because Jesse Marsh likes to play what we would call a high line. He likes his teams when they have the ball to be really high up the field, but that leads you exposed for a counter attack. Having Alfonso Davies a little further back makes sure that you're a little bit more defensively responsible because you can use his speed to get back and recover. I think it's something. It's a role that that he's still kind of learning. The interesting thing about Alfonso Davies in the past, especially in and around the World Cup, he was kind of given license to do. I shouldn't say that. Maybe not licensed. He did a lot of whatever he felt was necessary in the moment. There was a lot of freelancing on the field. His role is super, super clear right now and you talk to people that kind of you know, soccer people will all say, you know, Alfonso Davies has been good. He hasn't been great. This tournament. I think that's him learning the the importance of playing left back the importance of being defensively responsible because again, this team is going to get hit, but they do have attacking power that that maybe they didn't a few years ago. So that's why he's going to play left back. It's a long answer to a really, really good and divisive question in Canadian soccer circles. I hope that made sense. That was great. I'm just happy I could ask a super divisive question. Yeah, I know. You divided people. Well done. All right. This won't. And this and this requires all your reporting skills here, Josh. Has Sydney Crosby extended the boys trip? Is he going to be an East brother for tonight? There is there he is. There's no word yet of Sydney Crosby, but I don't want to. I'm going to do the selfish thing here. I have been told that there are some other quite major Canadian celebrities on the way. I don't want kids. I can't because you're writing about it. We'll see travel plans do what they do. And I don't want to account for, you know, flights in the air and delays and last minute plan. It wouldn't surprise you like Canadian. Sorry. Sydney Crosby Canadian icon. And I was fortunate. I used some, you know, intrepid hockey writer skills to go track him down after, you know, the game in Dallas. And I think the Canadian players themselves were just quite exuberant at having Sydney Crosby, like literally recognized this team. And that's a big part of it too. Like let's be honest. This team is focused on breaking through the kind of pop culture wall. Like this Canadian team is not where, you know, the men's Olympic hockey team. Like when they play, we know that like you're not, you're not going to work that day. Right. They're not there yet. But they want to be. And I think they're getting closer. And I think they recognize that even as hokey as it might sound to some. Oh, Sydney Crosby came in and bless them. But that matters. Well, all of that matters. Because you want come 20, 26, you want to be the biggest story in the country. And I think they're getting closer. If the people I think I've been told could show up today show up. We could be having an even greater conversation about who this team is and how they're being recognized. But we'll see. We'll see the mind raises. All right. We will be refreshing your Twitter account. Josh. Thanks buddy. Enjoy the game. Yeah. Take care guys. Thanks so much. There's Josh Cloak of the athletic. He was our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley North Lexus.com. Is it? Is it James Sharp? That's where my mind went. He is the host of footy prime the podcast and joins us online right now. Are you are you gonna East Brotherford? Are you there? I wish I was a bigger star than Sydney Crosby like Josh was intimating. Yeah. Well, yes, I am. Yes, but I'm not going down there. Unfortunately, no, I've got to do studio work for sports net. You know, so lame, professional that I am. I've got to stay here. Unfortunately. All right. That's two. Okay. So James, you've you've followed this Canadian national team for years and years and years. We've worked together doing the Fox ocarneuse and and and being surrounded by people invested in the result of a Canada Honduras match and seeing that goal so wrong. And it was an incredible experience to watch them play through World Cup qualifying and then on the World Cup stage and hold their own against Belgium, who stinks now it seems. But then yeah, it's horrible lose all games of the World Cup. How has the narrative changed with just like getting results at a major tournament? Yeah, it means everything, right? I mean, listen, the World Cup, the journey to the World Cup was incredible. We shouldn't forget that. It wasn't that long ago. But the World Cup itself was anticlimactic. And then since the World Cup for whatever reason, this team declined, you know, and lost that momentum and the off the field nonsense didn't help that as well. And we almost took a step back, I thought. But Copa America comes up and I think we can erase the last 18 months. This program is back on track. And yeah, the narrative is very much one for the future geared towards 2026 and enjoying what will be one of the great occasions in Canadian soccer history tonight as was the Venezuela game as was the the first Argentina game. So it's a very important narrative shift. Now it's up to Canada. Sucker to start promoting and marketing these players, you know, before the World Cup. That's so important in previous years. That has been a failure of Canada. Sucker. But now we have these these faces, these names which aren't household just yet in Canada. Some of them are beyond Canada, you know, in the soccer world certainly, but not in Canada. So that's the next step, I think. But yeah, what a shift. What a different mood is around Canadian soccer right now. Yeah, it's it's honestly crazy to think you'd be saying this about the team after they made the World Cup. But this feels like a whole new beginning. Like I don't want to poo poo everything that happened in the lead up and you know, one of my favorite clips in forget soccer, like our nation sporting history is I forget who the player is, but buddy just herlin himself into a snowbank out of pure celebration. Like those are moments that stick with me. But under I don't know if it's just the new manager or what it is, but it feels completely fresh. It feels completely new and to have the ability to have a almost clean slate with a group that has accomplished some things in the past. It's remarkable. You mentioned the the need to kind of sell these players. What is that? What does that look like? I mean, you know, like Bayern Munich's not doing Canada soccer at any any favors and saying like, Oh, I'm gonna bring Fonzie over no worries or wherever Jonathan David ends up like, what do you think that looks like and getting people to because it's relatively speaking easy to get people to connect right now. But this team is going to go away. How do we kind of keep that that fire that that ember burning between now and 26? We're keeping invisible, right? You know, advertising campaigns, billboards, you want to see our phones at Davis everywhere, right? Let's be honest here, just make them more available as well. I think in the past, they've kept the players very much hidden away, tucked away, almost over protected. But you're right. Once they go back to their clubs, it's it's difficult, right? For Canada soccer because they are still under the guise and the command there of their clubs, but just get the conversation the media talking about this team as much as possible. And I think as 2026 approaches, we'll just get that organically because there will be a buzz growing and grown, but it's still, you know, two years away, right? So that could be lost potentially. But I remember speaking to players who played over 2000 Gold Cup. They want a championship and they all thought, man, this is now the tipping point. We'll go home and we'll be on the talk shows will be everywhere and nothing happened, right? They're like, you know, there's like six people at the airport to greet them in Toronto. It didn't happen. So times change this then. Obviously, social media is a big thing. Be present, you know, and I think Canada's been a pretty good job of that in recent months. But, you know, it's an interesting comparison, right? To the World Cup qualification and now Copa America. What is bigger? Well, you know, bigger is qualifying for a World Cup, I think, but as far as the the moments playing Argentina and Julio Messi at this stage, you know, it is quite incredible. Also, out of the fact that the World Cup was during the winter. Don't forget where there was hockey. There was basketball. Other distractions right now. Sorry, Ben, but what do we have? No, we don't have the J's. There's nothing. They've got this spotlight on them and there's very little competition for them at the moment. So it's a great opportunity. It is. I'm also enjoying the coverage of this team from the Americans like I can't get enough of the American talking heads just like losing their mind over this supposed to be their coming out party, the Copa America's in their country and it's an American head coach too that's led Canada and Greg Berhalter as the knives have been out for him for a while, but especially after they get grouped at this tournament. What have you made of? Yeah, I guess it should have been obvious when when Canada topped concucaf World Cup qualifying that they should be viewed as the the class of concucaf, but I believe well, the US definitely got through their group. I think Mexico did as well at the World Cup like where is the like local narrative as far as the Americans and the Mexicans and like concucaf and now Canada like asserting itself as the best nation in this group. Yeah, well, first is wonderful, isn't it? Seeing them wine and complain is just brilliant. We need rivalries in sport and the women have a great rivalry with with the US that have done for years. The men, you know, it's been a rivalry, but less so because the American men's team has been far more successful. But we saw in, you know, you mentioned in World Cup qualifying, Canada looking great, but that was during a transitional time for the US team. They bounced back at the World Cup. This is a very good team despite what happened at Copa is an excellent team and their expectations were very high entry in this tournament. So to see them, you know, just choke and crush and burn while Canada's just moved through, it's been wonderful and you hear that at the announcers, Carly Lloyd and Alexie Lallis, and they just can't believe it. They're so indignant that how possibly could Canada do better than us the great years of a best, great. Let's harness that. We're going to walk Canada, you know, continue this and become once again, King is a concucaf. I don't know. Next summer, guys, is the Gold Cup, which has been dismissed in the last number of years. You know, the teams don't often bring their best players, but next year, because it's before the World Cup, they might well do that. Canada's got a very good chance to win that thing now, right? We have to really promote that, I think, and meet the states at some point, and that'll be a fantastic, you know, growth pan for the rivalry. So, yeah, it's changing for sure. But the fact that they're getting upset and now, you know, pointing up North to Canada is a real good sign for the game in this country that will make us a noise, you know, King is a concucaf. Listen, that whole phrase was great and it worked at the time. But like I said, US in transition, Mexico is at an all-time low. And again, even now, they're in an all-time low on and off the pitch. Hey, let's take advantage, right? We're in this so-called golden generation. Let's grasp it. England is pretty in a golden generation, you would think. The results have not quite been there, and they haven't looked perfect on their way to the semifinals of the Euros, but they got the Dutch tomorrow. They won on kicks. Like, where are you on this on this English national team that like was barely able to survive the first knockout stage game, but now has a chance with two victories to finally bring it home. Yeah, I think I was on with you guys last week and I said how I've enjoyed one second of this. Yeah, they're soaring through the tournament approaching the semifinals. And I was very angry and bitter and down on English. But well, I've changed my opinion, shifted the narrative. I'm now looking at England as being a plucky underdog, a team with no expectations but have found themselves on this fairytale run to semifinals. I don't care how they win now. They can play awful football, which they've done so far as long as they win. Right. That's the point of international football. Only Spain's played well out of the big nations, right? So I'm good for England. Yay, good for them, you know. They're the line, the expectations and they're going to maybe get to another final. Wow. What a time to be in England there. All right. That's a wow. What an opportunity. You point and weird to hear coming out of your mouth, but okay, sure. We'll go with that. Charms, always a pleasure, buddy. See you. Thank you. Thanks, fellas. Bye bye. James Sherman, host of the photo prime podcast, doing some work for sports now as well. Yeah, I was watching that that England game. Love penalties. My neutral take having not cared about any of this outside of Canada is all the game should go to penalties. Super exciting. And I don't care how fair it is when one of the guys is literally just guessing and the other guy is just going to kick as hard as he can to spot it personally for my enjoyment. Absolutely love it. I love, love, love it. Yeah, but here's the thing. I mean, the guessing part. Yeah, if you shoot a glow that that works and you can save it. You have the guts to go top corner. You have the nerve that you score every time. Yeah, but you also could be Lee and Miller and just booting it right through the upgrades. Of course, just quick side note also, it's been all sunshine and rainbows today. That's Stephen and stockio penalty is one of the worst I've ever seen in my life. Yes, right. And I know it's like I haven't seen a lot. I'm sure there are people being like, Oh, I watch for for a long time and I've seen worse and not me. That was bad. I did not enjoy that. And I like a stockio. He's one of the guys I'm like, Mm, Porto. And I feel like I know something. Yeah. So I don't like it when he when he doesn't come through and boy, did he not? Although what's worse like Lee and Miller boot Nick clear over the net or could but at least he has the courage to try something or a stockio just going like here. He just that's it. That's that's there in lies the rub. God, I am. I'm on fire with these takes. I asked quote my great question. He's like, that's they've been debating it for a hundred years. I'm like, Oh, good. Look at me. I think whatever they're doing is working though. I agree with Jesse Marsh, whatever he decides to do. Okay. There's no world like is America gonna steal him? Because like I'd imagine they could just come and wave a gillion dollars in front of his face. I got to know how much they care to do that. But like I wouldn't like that very much. I know contracts are a thing, but it's like you can break a contract and you just got to pay money to do it. Yeah. Like no offense to Jesse Marsh. I actually think they're like looking higher. Okay. They're looking at like you're going. I just I hope is that that's not going to happen. I mean, I've heard rumblings about that possibility. I just feel like a lot of the people who have been yelling watch a lot of college football and that's exactly what they do to be like this guy is from here and he's winning. He turned a program around. Look at what they've done. Go get that guy. I've just seen that story a cajillion times in like college football coaching circles or basketball for that matter. Sure. I mean, I guess in a world that yeah, anything's possible, right? It is just it is just money. There's no like tampering. I don't want just to be clear. I don't want that to happen. It's like I'm fearful of it. You know, passports, powerful thing. It sure is. We have Toronto FC tickets to give away for today for Saturday July 13th, the match against the Philadelphia Union at 730 for Caribbean heritage night to enter for a chance to win these tickets. Text today's code word union to 59590. Again, that code word is union. Text it into 59590 right now to enter for your chance to win tickets to Wednesdays match. Should you win? You need an email associated with a ticket master account in order to claim your tickets. If you don't win with us, you can secure your tickets to Saturday's match at ticketmaster.ca when we come back. J's Giants and the Giants with the team that have all the guys the blue j's tried to sign this offseason. And every fan wanted them to sign and they're only marginally better than the blue j's. Let's talk to Ben Nicholson Smith of the Apple letters podcast next as the fan morning show continues. Ben and his friend gunning Sportsnet 590 the fan. Diving deep into leaps, rafters, j's and NFL. The J.D. bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning show Sportsnet 590 the fan Ben and his Brent gunning done a pretty good job of visiting major league baseball parks. Mm hmm. The best I've been to. Yes. If we're taking the history out of it. I went to old Yankee Stadium and Fenway and those are different type of awesome best ballpark modern ballpark I've been doing. I've never been a Camden but went to what was then AT&T Park. I think it's Oreo Park now or an Oracle Park now in San Francisco. That's where the blue j's will find themselves tonight as they start a series against the Giants. Let's talk to Ben Nicholson Smith of the Apple letters podcast. He's been to more ballparks than me. Where do you rank Oracle Park? I would say inner circle. I agree. I think it's I think it's amazing. I such a cool park. You know, Dodger Stadium Camden Yards. Mm hmm. Ones are up there for me too. I like America a lot. Yeah. I like that way. I love America. I I haven't been to a time rated. It's like so close. But yeah. America's great. Yeah. I would school in Windsor. So I was like hop over the border. I as someone who has not been to a time. It's like the two that absolutely must get checked off and like take Riggly out of this because I have been a Fenway as well is its Oracle Park and then PNC in Pittsburgh. Like those are the temperatures from an aesthetic standpoint for sure. Yeah. I mean, no, they're so fun. They're so fun. You get a nice day for it. You know, you get some fun. You get, you know, full crowd. It can be just a great atmosphere. Yep. I have some garlic fries. Oracle Park is a nice little evening for you. All right. So the Giants are better than the Blue Jays, but only barely so and they're looking up at the top of their division where the Dodgers reside as we expected them to. But they got all the guys that Blue Jays fans wanted the Blue Jays to sign when they missed out on Joey Otani and Matt Chapman's doing a pretty good job of contributing. He's got an OBS of 750 playing then the normal Matt Chapman defense, but Jorge Salaire is like not been much. The I mean, even if you go to the pitching side of the thing, like I get it. Jordan Hicks has been good as a starter, but I don't think that was ever a possibility tonight started Blake Snell is not good at all. I mean, so we have this conversation earlier, Ben. Yeah, I want to criticize Ross Atkins for this team's construction because they're bad and predictably bad, but like what was the, what was the move in the off season because it seems like all the guys that they could have pivoted to after Otani outside of Chapman, even Cody Bellinger, they all stink predictably. Jorge Salaire. There was a period of time where I was talking about Jorge Salaire a lot. And yeah, it's got zero point four war on it on the first year of a three year deal. So, you know, not a look not to not do it on that path. Yeah, but I think people know where I stand. I think the chase. Yeah, there is no need to do that. But to your point, yeah, it is it wasn't a great creation class. Otani is obviously absolutely incredible. And then beyond that, there there wasn't any transformative player who was going to be that single one. So was there a single move that the Blue Jays could have and should have made beyond Otani? Probably not. But as a front office, their job is to be creative to find the unexpected moves, to find the minor league moves, to get the most out of their own players, to make the right coaching and personnel decisions, you know, to make the right draft pick. So there are all these little decisions and little things that add up over time to a good team as a team like the Dodgers can tell you with waiver claims for guys like Evan Phillips, their closer. The Jays probably haven't done enough with that. But there wasn't a singular off season move that they should have done beyond Otani. This isn't just a Blue Jays question, although it'll certainly impact them just as much as everyone else. But do you think teams kind of have to adjust their thinking in terms of those players being available? Like not to say Soto won't get there this off season or there won't be one or two big shiny bubbles at the top of free agent classes. But do you just feel like teams are kind of going out of their way to lock up talent younger and younger trying to buy up some of those free agency years? Do you think they're and not that it was ever the smartest way to build your team is just buying free agents every winter? But do you think there has to be a little bit of a change? And again, I'm not putting this just on the Blue Jays, but every team or most teams in baseball with the idea of being able to kind of rebuild your team in that way through free agency because it's just less and less quality players available or do you think it's maybe overstated just because of what the last couple classes have looked like? Yeah, it's always an adjustment. And so I think that MLB front offices have to adjust to one another. I think the big adjustment that one officer has to make is that teams are no longer spending as aggressively on mid tier free agents. And so I think that if other teams aren't doing that then you can't be the last one in there doing that. So you have to be really judicious in the last that player is a huge game culture like a one Soto. So I think that's a big difference. I think that teams have just gotten so smart over and this includes the Blue Jays and no one wants to hear this, but they're so systematized. There's so much information that goes into it. And there's so much better understanding of risk than it was even like 10, 12, 13 years ago. So I think that you're not seeing as many bad contracts in the game as you did at that period of time. So that's one adjustment that teams have to make. And yet at the same time, like you could look at the Phillies and that's still a team that has been built largely by free agents, whether it's real Ludo Harper, Katzianos, you know, Kraturna was a free agent. So Aaron Ola at this point was a free agent Zach Wheeler was a free agent and they're a great team. So I don't think it can't work, but you've got to be really careful and you've got to pick the right guys. Yeah, this team needs a lot of work. Okay, this rotation, I guess needs the least amount of work, but it's not as dominant as it was a season ago and who knows how Alec Manoa factors in if he does it all next season will be not until the latter half of it Yariel Rodriguez looked pretty good in his lock up all starts like can you get, you know, 30 starts out of him that would be unreal. The bullpen is abysmal. Like it's atrocious needs a complete overhaul. The offense is one of the worst in all a baseball, but I kind of want to focus on it because like the bullpen, yeah, it like almost completely scorched earth on the bullpen and bringing in what 567 relievers next season. But those are relievers and they're not that expensive in any theory. They're easier to acquire than everyday position players. How does this team get like significant because it's going to have to get significantly better offensively for 2025? That's where my it's hard to wrap my head around how that happens. Yeah, I agree. I think that's the big one of the big challenges facing the front office. Don't have 50 something in the neighborhood of 50 million coming off the books. That's assuming that they're, you know, they're free agent. Leave this off season or they're traded before that. So if you have that kind of money coming off the books, of course you do have some arbitration raises baked in, but that should give you some money to work with. So you could theoretically sign a prominent free agent. Now I don't think that's one soda, but could it be balance or if he opts out or is it will you promise? I don't know. I mean, you could sign a good player. Like you can sign a major league player to add to the lineup and presumably you're going to focus on power. So that's one way to do it. And the other way would be trade and the sooner the better, right? I mean, it's tough to do, but in theory you can acquire someone at the deadline for a rental that helps your lineup and you know, this is the best case scenario. But in 2017, the best trade Ross Atkins has probably made his Blue Jays GM trading away from Cisco, Lyriano, getting back to Oscar Hernandez. So that's the kind of template that again, it's that can't do that every year. But in theory, you could start on the rebuild this summer. Yeah, just put on the ski mask and go rob someone point blank. If he can do it, I certainly would welcome it. These are the these are the positions that Jay's are in. I think the question I have and you know, I don't know. I don't know that there's a, you know, a hard and fast answer for this, but you see them take two or three games against the Mariners. Is there anything that can happen between now and the end of the month that changes their mind? And I'm clear on where I stand that nothing that happens. They go win every game between down the end of the month and it wouldn't change how I feel about what they should do. But is there a world where this team wins enough games to make the front office change or even kind of slightly alter their course? Yeah, I mean, so let's say they, I don't know how many games they have before the deadline, but let's say it's 18 games. So if they were to go 14 and four. Yeah, I mean, I would say they should buy at that point. I mean, I don't think they're going 14 and four, but they certainly show a no indication of doing that. But yeah, if they go 14 and four, yeah, go for it. I mean, yeah, at that point, you're in it. So I don't see a reason to necessarily, you know, maybe maybe it's a little more nuanced than that. Maybe you're trading away kimchi, but you're holding onto Janssen because you don't want to be totally bereft of the cash position. Like, you know, you can find ways to do it to spread a needle there. But essentially, yeah, no one's holding your breath on this team going 14 and four. Like that's a huge leap. That's, you know, that's not that's a good stretch for a really good team. I don't know that that's in the cards here. So I would certainly certainly expect the J's to be selling their pending creation. Yeah, proof of concept would be that 2013 season with a blue J's team that was also very bad. But one 11 straight to get back over 500 into late June before they floundered before the all star breaking before the trade deadline. So yeah, there's some large questions surrounding this team and big holes that need to be filled headed into next season. But I thought you knew and I think you do know what you have in Vladimir Guerrero Jr. The baseline is very high. And I think you would do everything in your power to try and re sign him now or the off season at the very least and make him a part of your plans going forward for the next decade decade plus is Bobo shag going to be okay because like we all go back to 2022, right? And the slow start similarly slow, not as bad as this though, and just salvaging the whole season last month in like a week. It's unreal. It was hidden seventh in July and he was the best hitter in baseball for the last month that have this is extended. And again, worse than 2022. Is he gonna be all right? I think he will be. I don't have a lot of data to back that up. That's the problem. Right? Yeah, for for this year, you know, it's not like he's got this great barrel rate or it's not like everything's just finding a glove and it's, you know, it's getting bad after something. Yeah, the numbers aren't great. The underlying numbers aren't great. At times it doesn't look great. So it's, you know, everyone knows this Bobo shag knows this. It's been a really rough first half of the season for him. I tend to think that, you know, because of his track record, because of his age, I don't think that he's about to just drop off a cliff. I really, I don't. I think that he's going to be a good player for the second half. And I think he's going to be a good player in 2025. But that's a little bit of a, I mean, it's not even an argument. I'm just like stating my opinion, like looking into a crystal ball, right? Like it's, it's kind of a leap of faith more than anything. And I think back to George Springer, two weeks ago, he seemed to be done. And at that point, it seemed like, you know, he might be, he might be done forever, just because of his age and how many, how many reps he's got under his spell over the years, but he really turns around. Players look good when they're when they're hot. They obviously look bad when they're hot. And it's rare for a cold treat to go on for this long, but I still tend to default that at 26 years old, Boba Shek is going to come out of this. Yeah, again, there is proof of concept. This would be more extreme than 2022, which was pretty damn extreme when he was hitting seventh and then ended up leading the American League in hits. But this has been worse. It would need an even better turnaround to end up with an OBS over 800 before they go. Aggregators jumping all over you and Arden on the podcast talking about Nate Pearson to the rotation again. Yeah, again, you talked about developing young players and minor leagues and traffic. So it'd be nice to have like a bubbling crop of potential starters in the minor league system and they traded some of them away, but also haven't developed any. So you're left in this position where, okay, would you rather have like, I guess an okay middle reliever in Nate Pearson or roll the dice on the starter? Honestly, considering what Nate Pearson is as a reliever and that he's not manual class A, I would be inclined to just try the start with thing again. Yeah, it's interesting. And I know Arden was on that side as well. I personally wouldn't really go there. I just think that starting is so hard. You have to do so many different things. You have to hold runners piercings. Not good at that. You have to repeat your delivery over and over and over. You have to have multiple pitches. I don't know. I think it's I think being a starting pitcher in the majors is just really, really difficult. And I think that Pearson can help the Blue Jays, but I think that that roll at this point is more of a multi inning reliever, which is super valuable. Trevor Richards about to become a free agent. I think he's lost into that role and maybe he gives you, you know, maybe it's 60, 70, 80 innings and a bit of a ball. You're really full, but I wouldn't be trying to get this guy through, you know, six inning. I think that he's got the upside to do it. So theoretically, you could you could make that plus and certainly experimenting doesn't offer it in spring training, but I think that him as a reliever is just fine. Okay. Last last one. Joey Votto hit a home run in Dunedin. Do we see him this season? I'm going to say yes, but I mean, I don't I it's not going to be before the off the break. I mean, maybe after the trade deadline, but I'm going to I'm going to still say yes. Why not? Yeah, that's where I'm at. Why not indeed? Benny. Thanks, buddy. You gotta guys. Thanks. So yeah, Ben Nicholson Smith of the At the Letters podcast. Why not? Right? Yeah, I mean, well, you know my opinion on the matter because Canada days pass and you missed the best time to do it. So why bother at all? No, I mean, even I even I and again, my opinions on this are very well known. But yeah, even I can say sure why not, especially if you're trading away like Justin Turner. Yeah, I mean, yeah, sure. Yeah, there's there's no old man. Okay. Obviously after the deadline, it's all about, hey, what do you have next season and the youth movement? Every young player you got that you think could factor into the Major League roster in 2025 needs to play as much as possible. Agreed. None of those guys are first baseman DHS. God forbid you want them playing DH or not be a DHS. No, you want you want your Spencer Horowitz to play second base every day and you want Ricky Tiedemann to be taking the ball as a starter every fifth day. But there's nobody that's an every day DH that you're developing even or Elvis Martinez like it's like he ain't here. You're not walking through that door this season. So it's like that was the one guy who had a pretty clearly no position. I know they'd want to try him at one. Yeah, but even he is not here to gum that up. No, so I mean, in a season in which you are just trying to placate fans after the trade deadline, I would imagine and get people a reason to show up at the ballpark outside of, hey, it's baseball. It's beautiful day and the renovations are great, which is all true. That is all unequivocally true. And you can still have a series like they did against the Mariners where even though the stakes are low for one of the teams still feels important and there will be plenty other teams with stuff to play for. That's true. I think it'd be a nice little gesture to the fans as long as he looks capable of doing so that you call up Joey Votto and the lasting image of him isn't just in a Blue Jays spring training game wearing the Blue Jays uniform. It's actually in a major league game in his final season. And, you know, what an incredible moment it could be if like say he hits a home run in the second half of the season and then, you know, he comes out, plays defense maybe and then you bring him off the field in that game and then he says, that's it. I'm done. Like what an incredible moment that could conceivably be. John Crock was ringing through my brain. He did. I mean, I don't think it was the home aspect of it all, but I do remember him telling a story about, hey, my dad, I've been sitting here for two games waiting for you to get a hit. Can you get your hit cycle walk off from retire and he finally did and then that's exactly what happened. I'd be fine with that moment again, like my opinions, very well known, but for a lot of other people, that'd be very nice. Yeah. So that's a reason to be engaged. Blue Jays team seeing what the young players can do. Seeing if Vlad can continue to do what he has done this season seeing if Boba shed can just find himself poking him see if there's a pulse there. I don't know. Like there is like Ben said, it's just like you got to just believe there's no number that's going to tell you the real Boba shed is going to emerge and seeing doesn't have to be believing. You just believe to believe and then Ricky Tiedeman who is going to be back in Buffalo, maybe makes one or two starts and then you got to figure is going to be in Toronto starting for the Blue Jays. You think I mean, there was talk about not wanting to waste his bullets and triple A this year as it is and obviously just the way the years gone, the way the years gone up here, you get them up here for sure for sure. All right. It's July. I've already started to take my vacation. You have. Yeah. And more is upcoming. Yeah. And like a guy that used to work here used to say, why do you take so much vacation? You said because I have a lot. That's like is good. It's a good theory. Okay. Used to work here though. So enjoy your vacation. I will starting tomorrow. Swing in the sticks, baby. Cannot wait. Best of luck, buddy. I'll be back tomorrow with another edition of the fan morning show. Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning Sports at 5.9 in the fan. Good morning. In case you needed it. Here's another reminder. Joey Votto still bang. The 40 year old still has juice. [Music]
