It's gonna be a lot of fun. [MUSIC] Welcome back to the Van Mornings Show. Matt Marchese, Danieli Franceski with you here. This is hour three of all this already. >> Yeah, it's true. It's flown by. >> Yeah, you know what? I was a little bit duped because, you know. >> It's their sunlight and their sunlight. >> Yeah, but it's four hours. So it doesn't feel like you're sort of, this would be the home stretch, technically. >> Yes. >> We're not there, quite yet. >> And that's okay because we're live at Coppinwood Golf Club for the NHL Alumni Association Golf Tournament. And it's a beautiful day. >> It is, it looks really nice. >> I mean, I would lose 30 golf balls on this course based on all the fescue that I am. >> And the forestry on every road. >> There's lots of forestry. There's lots of trees. >> It's the, but the vantage point here from the clubhouse is just stunning. >> Absolutely. >> So we're gonna have some NHL alumni roll through here as the program continues on. But before we do that, I want to talk a little bit more about the Toronto Blue Jays. And I understand that for a lot of Blue Jays fans. Listen, the game yesterday was a great baseball game. I saw the great Keegan Mathison put out his article and the line in it was, they had failed so many times trying to get the ball across the one yard line that Pete Carroll almost came in and called the passing club, which was a fantastic line by Keegan. >> But you know what though, it just is a reminder that this team can play good baseball at times. I mean, every team can play good baseball at times. >> Wow. There's not the White Sox, man. >> Yeah, not the White Sox, which is so crazy to think of where this team was three years ago. >> Yeah. >> The Chicago White Sox, holy smokes. But with the Blue Jays, I mean, there are things that you can learn within a 10, 15 game stretch. >> I think that we've learned that George Springer has figured it out. I think that's safe to say. For the time being, he is one of the hottest hitters on maybe the hottest hitter on the planet right now. >> For sure. >> Pretty close to it over a 12 game stretch. I think the other thing that we've learned over the last little bit, and it's been two of three starts because his first start back, Yariel Rodriguez did not get, he got out of the first inning, but not much further out of the first inning. He didn't look very good. Yariel Rodriguez, his last two starts against the Astros, and the Mariners has looked fantastic. To me, this is found money in a sense that, yes, you're not paying him a lot, but it's found money as a starter because I don't think the plan was this year for Yariel Rodriguez to be in the rotation. It was to be a high leverage arm at the back end of your bullpen. If everything went according to plan, Alec Manoa came back, and Alec Manoa showed signs that he was back before the injury. >> He did. >> You expected Kevin Gossman to be better than he has been. You say Kakuchi has shown his flashes. He struggled a bit lately, but you expected him to be what he was last year. Jose Barrios is better than he was last year, and Chris Bassett is Chris Bassett. He's going to give you your innings, and again, he's had some rough starts, but generally speaking, Chris Bassett has been consistent. Yariel Rodriguez was not in the plans to start, in my opinion, >> Sure. >> this early into his Blue Jays tenure. Maybe he was going to be a guy in Buffalo that was going to, they'll ramp him up and whatever, but I don't think that this was, if you laid out best case scenario for the Toronto Blue Jays, Yariel Rodriguez with that stuff this year is a high leverage arm at the back end of the bullpen. So it's an interesting conversation because I hesitate to firmly say that he is now locked and loaded as a starter for this team long-term going forward in terms of heading into 2025. He's in your rotation. >> Sure. >> He probably will be in your rotation, but that's going to be more out of necessity in my estimation than it is you making that luxurious call of how do we best deploy this player. They did make, and I know in terms of major league baseball money in the economy that is MLB, his deal isn't the most taxing. It's a five-year, $32 million deal, but they did go out and prioritize trying to sign him and bring him over. I still do have questions. I have question marks. I think he's looked fantastic. The last couple starts no doubt about it against two good offensive teams, as you rightly noted. I think where I have some consternation is can we see him do this for a more prolonged stretch and not just throw 80 pitches. Let's ramp up this workload to where he's throwing what a normal starter workload consists of, which is give me 100 pitches or 90 plus pitches, every outing for five, six outings in a row so that we can see are you capable of actually being a true starting pitcher. He didn't pitch in all of 2023 during the regular baseball season. Prior to this year, his most recent appearance on a professional mound came at the world baseball classic where he made two starts in pitch seven and a third innings combined across two appearances. So there are still questions to me about his ability to do this and be sustainable at it, but I will say we have seen some encouraging signs. One thing when you look at repertoire for any starting pitcher, do they have a good fastball and secondary pitches that play? He checks boxes in both of those areas because he doesn't just he's not a he's a three four pitch guy. He can change how he approaches hitters and I like the versatility in his overall arsenal that he possesses. The one thing we've seen in the last two starts is he's done a very good job of establishing the fastball throwing it for strikes. Something that was a bit of an issue earlier on this season for him was throwing it in the strike zone. And in the last two outings, we see him do that more effectively. So I think there are encouraging signs there. And because of how much they have invested in him and the fact that he is signed through at least 2027 with a player option in 2028, that is positive and it is important because that tells you realistically he is one of the few guys on this roster that is actually going to be here and we can pencil him on paper as saying he's probably going to be around for multiple seasons in a Blue Jays uniform. That isn't the case with everybody. And that's why I think this recent string of results is important for him. So I was I was when I'm doing my notes for the show, I'm looking at it and I'm going, okay, who is part of this roster on this current iteration of the Toronto Blue Jays. Conceivably, who is a part of this roster? You can even look at next year, but let's say two years down the road, it's almost it feels like an almost impossible question. It's a which is exercise, which is which is a weird thing to say when you think, well, Boba Shed is on this team in Vlady Guerrero, juniors on this team in Alejandro Kirk. Like if we had this conversation two years ago and I had said, who's a part of this team's future in four years, you would have locked in those three guys for sure. Alec Manoa locked in. You like you've got a bunch of guys that you look at and go, there is a there is a foundation here. It's really hard to find that foundation right now. It's crazy. Like I look at like, I don't know. I think they would like Vlady Guerrero, junior, to be a part of this thing going forward. I think they would like Boba Shed to be a part of this thing going forward. Only one of those guys at most is going to be a part of this. And I think it's probably Vlady who's also an all star this year, by the way, is is Spencer Horowitz part of this equation is David Schneider. Those are the names that I look at and go, those are names I could see. Yeah, because age is a little bit more on their side. Less so for Spencer Horowitz than it is for David Schneider, but Spencer Horowitz has been great for them. By the way, just to be for clarity, what year are we going to project to? I want I'm going to go through this exercise in my brain. So what year are we going to say, 2026? Okay, 2026. All right, we're going to go through this exercise. You can continue to I'm going to write down a few names that I think will probably still be. George Springer is still here because he has a contractual obligation to be here. After that, I mean, boy, Kevin Gosman is still here. You sure about that? No, I'm not. I'm not certain about that either. Chris Bassett's not here. I think Barrios is on their list. I wrote it down. Jeff has a partner, a wonderful producer texted it, but I had him. Barrios. Yes. Yeah. Bassett. No, I know. Koochie Koochie should be gone at the deadline. He should be gone in three weeks. Here's that's true. Here's the name. And here's a name that you and I differ on. Okay. Danny Janssen. Danny Janssen going to be 30 years old. Yes. And the point that you made off the air, which I will allow you to make is a very poignant one. My thing is is figure it out that Danny Janssen is not on this roster. And your point was what? They have nobody else. It's very simple. That's why you get up to do this show. They have nobody else. And even, well, there's a few layers to the Danny Janssen story. If we peel back the onion, one is they have nobody. You know, you you were making the argument off air for Phil Clark and Hank granted. Hey, I'm a very he's at a very good year. 100% and I'm a very good run, really. I'm a Phil Clark guy. I'm a Phil Clark guy. Okay. I love these stories. I love like the David Schneider story. He's very much in that same vein of a guy that's probably not. And for those and for those that don't know, Kevin Clark is Kevin Clark. Phil Clark. He's that's he's that good. Phil Clark. I saw Kevin something on my Twitter. That's why Phil Clark is playing in Buffalo. And he is a ninth round pick. I believe out of Vanderbilt. Yeah. And he has rocketed up the Blue Jay. Was he 2019? Anyway, regardless of that point, steadily progressed. He is steadily progressed through the the minor league system for the Toronto Blue Jays. He is not does not appear on their top 30 prospect list. Yeah. He's never been remotely close to the top 100 prospects in baseball. But he has had a nice little run through the Blue Jays organization to the point where he's gotten to Buffalo a lot faster than people would have anticipated. Part of that is a lack of catching depth in the organization. But not to take anything away from the guy. He's hit the ball very well at the minor league level. I don't know how he is as a defensive catcher. But in order for you to get through, you have to have something for for sure. Yeah. So that so just so people know who Phil Clark is, that's who Phil Clark is. Anyway, continue on to your point. So beyond him, beyond apart from Phil Clark, who is certainly drawing the ire of a lot of people in the prospect community at this particular juncture of the 2024 season. There isn't a lot there. Brian Servin is is he going to be your number two catcher? Even if you have to go half a season, which is in the cards with Brian Servin being your number two catcher hit the ball hit the cover off the ball. It's bring training now like it's just it's just a very difficult proposition to sort of buy into. Yeah. And Danny Janssen. So that's one factor. Secondarily, they've invested a lot in Danny Janssen. Now there's been loyalty on both sides like Danny Janssen has been very good to them and he's evolved as a hitter. So his offensive skill set has expanded and it's it's grown and developed over the years. But defensively, you know, and even in terms of communication with a pitching staff and handling that responsibility, there's nobody better. Like there's nobody better that this organization has seen in quite some time since Russell Martin, sure, that you can equate to being as comfortable in that role. And he was deemed to be the successor to Russell Martin. Look how long it took Danny Janssen to get comfortable doing this job to be in this position where he is viewed and regarded as a leader on this team as somebody that can catch whomever is in your rotation coming out of the bullpen. And he's more durable than Alejandro Kirk. The problem here is if you trade Danny Janssen, which is very pragmatic and it's a practical decision, frankly, if it's any other team, it's probably the most prudent way to go. Alejandro Kirk is not capable of catching five out of seven days of the week. That is a problem. And and then you go into the 2024 off season and you're looking to replace what you just traded away, which is a veteran catcher who can handle a staff who can who can provide a little bit of offensive upside here and there or at least hit above his own body weight offensively, which Kirk hasn't done. And and somebody who has a little bit of leadership quality to him. So you're looking for those exact same qualities in a guy that was just on your roster. Why would you trade him away? That's why I think the most salient and logical route to go with Janssen is to try and retain him and extend him. Like if he happens to walk in his own volition, it's going to be a bitter pillow swallow. But I think that could be frank given what they have in the system is the best way to go. See if you can keep him because it takes a long time to find another one of those there. J's are not going to be able to go out and you know, sign a marquee free agent catcher. In fact, I don't think there are any that are going to be on the market. But you know, there are very few William Contreras trades that can be made for example. Yeah. And even that guy who's going to be the starting catcher for the National League All-Star team and deservedly so, right, even in that situation, he's there are still questions about his ability as a defensive catcher. Janssen at least gives you the stability of what he does defensively and how he handles the staff and the fact that you know, he can hit for power. So you're going to live with him in 220, but he's probably going to hit you 20 homers. That's hard to find at that position. So this all speaks to the complete stalling in the development of Alejandro Kirk. Absolutely. Because forget because here's the thing you can live with Alejandro Kirk. You know, his defensive deficiencies because it's going to take a toll on his body catching four out of five games. You could live with that if he's hitting 250 and he's getting you 20 bombs like a Danny Janssen, you can live with that. But that development has not even it's just completely stalls plateau. He is not like he remember the conversations about him being, you know, a very good contact hitter and he could get on base and all of these things. That is just it's gone. And so that to me is what this all speaks to is just you would have a lot more confidence in dealing Danny Janssen if Alejandro Kirk was anywhere near where we thought he would be at this point of his developmental cycle. Totally. If there's anybody to point to as the prime if Danny Janssen, we get to July 30th and Danny Janssen does not move. The number one reason is because of Alejandro Kirk. It's not because of Danny Janssen. It's even frankly, it's not even because of the overall organizational depth. It's because of that one guy not achieving the ceiling, not reaching the ceiling that people expected or hoped he could be as a starting caliber catcher in this league. And and if we think hindsight is always twenty twenty, but frankly, they probably should have traded Alejandro Kirk two years ago. And instead of it being Gabriel Moreno that was traded, it probably should have been Alejandro Kirk and and that's been relitigated time and again. But as we sit here today on July eight twenty twenty four, that's proven to be costly for them in terms of the long term overall outlook for the Toronto Blue Jays going forward. Okay. Moving on to something that is near and dear to your heart. Not my I like how fired up you get. Love it. So Lewis Hamilton. Yes. The British Grand Prix. If I'm not mistaken, that is nine nine British Grand Prix's for him. It's his last British Grand Prix as a Mercedes driver. He, you know, is crying in his father's arms. It's all just it's all part of this wonderful story that is Lewis Hamilton. Now, having said that, I am not a race car fan. I don't like NASCAR drivers driving in circles. It's not it's not my thing, but you're very invested in it. Love it. So tell me as someone who does not walk the car, the race car drivers. Now, I take nothing away from them because they are people say who they drove a car. Yeah, they're in way better shape than you listening in your car or at home right now. It's not even remotely close. Their reaction time is better than Tyree kills one of the best riders. Did you see that clip? It's incredible. Yeah, it's incredible. I think it was him and was a gazzle or oak on I think it was oak on that clip was unbelievable. It's ridiculous. Tell me why as a non racing fan why this should matter to me. Okay. So here's my sales pitch. Okay. To the general casual sports fan out there. That might not be overly invested in Formula One or motor sport in particular. Here it is. Matty, there are very few instances in professional sports where nostalgia meets reality. Okay. Yesterday was one of those moments, right? I'm thinking Tiger Woods 2019 Masters is one that I immediately pops into my head where the nostalgia of what Tiger was meets the present day version of that athlete and it works. Okay. Kobe's 62 point game in his final NBA game. That is the nostalgia of Kobe being one of the greatest of all time and him doing that walking off and leaving in the sunset as this unbelievable, leaving a mark on that franchise and an incredible moment for us. Okay. Yesterday was that yesterday was that for Lewis Hamilton and for Formula One and for motor sport fans across the world. This guy who has come to represent an entire generation of what that sport is and stands for. I phrase it this way to in terms of the overall importance and how to contextualize it. Max Verstappen has been on an illustrious tear the last few years with Red Bull and everybody remembers the 2021 season in which he beats Lewis, right? He beats Lewis. In fact, this all ties in beautifully because Lewis's last win came in 2021 in the penultimate race before Max one in that dramatic fashion to take the title his first of his career. Now Max has gone on and he's won three in a row looking for his fourth consecutive this year. Lewis has won seven titles. So Max is on an incredible run right now, but there's no athlete in that sport and that includes even if we include NASCAR, no athlete in motor sport that actually attracts casual viewership that transcends various barriers than Lewis Hamilton. He is the exception to the rule. He is bigger than that sport in and of itself. He is a sportsman through and through and that is why yesterday was so impactful. Also, and I as a fan, like either we watch sports all the time, right? Whether it's hockey, basketball, baseball, tennis golf, whatever it may be, we're watching soccer right now. That's obviously the hot thing. We're all watching sports. I got to tell you, there are very few things in which I ever get that little butterfly feeling anymore when I watch sports just because of the industry we're in yesterday. Man, how could you not like watch that and well up a little bit and sit there and be like when he crossed the line for his first win in nearly three years? I'm telling you, like I gave it the old good fist pump like I don't get fired up about a lot of stuff because I'm naturally cynical, but that was a beautiful moment. That was such a beautiful moment and it just was it was phenomenal to see the emotion. That guy had won 103 Grand Prix prior to yesterday. He had never cried before when he won a race. That includes his debut race that he won. He never cried yesterday. He cried for win number 104 and his ninth time at that track. Come on. How can you not be romantic about that? How is that not poetic for the guy that has come to define motorsport in that country in the UK and has come to define a generation. Oh, and on top of that, the brand that he races for in Mercedes that he wins in his final race at his home track for his home team. Come on. It writes itself. It is a phenomenal story. So here's how much I know about that one. I had no idea that Lewis Hamilton hadn't won in three years. Yeah, I thought Lewis Hamilton was still great. Nope. Well, he is still great. I think that's what it proves to. I think that's the other thing that it proves. I mean, I'm sorry, dominant. No, that's the word that good word dominant, but it's David Croft, who I love is one I think is one of the best play by play announcers in all of sports. Like he's just unbelievable on commentary. He has one of his lines when Lewis crossed the finish start finished straight and and it was, you know, it was an iconic call. Awesome moment, but he said that Lewis Hamilton is back and that was the only point of his entire little monologue that I would pick at. I don't think Lewis Hamilton is back. I don't think he ever left. I think it's just a matter of of him being in the right machinery because I think Lewis is still proven time and again that he is an elite, elite racing driver and that he can still be very, very good. And that's what makes next year when he goes to Ferrari all the more intriguing. This brings him back to even our Italian tie in. Now we get to cheer for him in an Italian manufacturer next year. And and I think that is that's the only thing that I was a little bit dubious about when because everybody's like he's back. I go but he never really left. He never really left. It's just given the right machinery and he's still capable of being very, very good and winning a lot of races. A Brit in England has not been very a Brit in Italy has not been very well received in the history of time. So I will I will leave it at that in terms of the fandom for Ferrari. It's you know, it's a great story. Listen, you sold me on it. I thank you. I tried. I know you did a good job. I'm not saying that I'm going to go watch the next race. But you sold me on the story that is Lewis Hamilton because I do know for a fact that he is, you know, arguably the greatest driver in the history of F1. We can, you know, you throw Schumacher and that that conversation as well. Okay, you won. You got me. Oh, thank you. You should be proud. I am very proud. I am delighted that we carved out some time to actually touch on Lewis Hamilton because I was excited and fired up. And yes, for a guy, it's like 945 days for him to do it again to step on the top step of the podium. That was quite special. And you want to talk about his legacy overall. He's the only driver in F1 history to win after eclipsing 300 career races. He's the only one to ever do that. That includes a lot of legendary drivers that have been in that sport for many years. He's the only one to do it. How many days did you say? 945 945 days. I can't. The only thing that I know that I haven't done in 945 days plus, which I'm continually setting records for is not going to the gym. I'm doing a very good job with that. We're going to take a break. When we come back, Rick Vive, a belief alumni. I played also with the Vancouver Canucks. He will join us when we come back. We are live at Coppinwood at the NHL Alumni Association golf tournament. A fantastic day here at the golf course as we overlook. I don't even know what hole it is, but it is a fantastic look at this beautiful golf course. Matt Marquesi Deniali Franceski with you here. This is the Fan Morning Show on SportsNet 590, the fan. Diving deep into leaps, rafters, J's, and NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, welcome back. It's the Fan Morning Show, SportsNet 590, the fan. Matt Marquesi Deniali Franceski with you here live at Coppinwood Golf Club for the NHL Alumni Association golf tournament, and pleased to be joined by former 50 goal scorer Rick Vive. Rick, how are you this morning? I'm fabulous. Couldn't be better. It was a long drive here, but that's okay. I mean, at least the Cenics are good because we're sitting here in the clubhouse. It is just a wonderful looking golf course here, and I'm not saying that because we're here. It looks fantastic. My only problem is, and you're a much better golfer than I, I would lose about 100 golf here with all the best. And I like to consider myself a decent golfer. Like, I shoot, you know, like 87, I'm okay. You're not shooting 87. Like, you were telling us a story off the air. Like, you're, you're a very good golfer. This, although looks like it will be a challenge. Have you played all in? Oh, it'll be a challenge. All right. I have played here before. It's a very difficult course. A lot, lot tougher than the one I play on a regular basis. So, but hopefully I don't lose a whole bunch of goals. The pro shops open. Don't worry. So, I wanted to, I wanted to talk to you about your scoring endeavors in the NHL because, listen, we can, we can talk about, you know, people say, Oh, well, the 80s in the same. I don't care what anybody says. You scored over 50 goals in the NHL. You scored a lot of goals over your career, 441 to be exact. And when you look at at that time and scoring, especially with the Toronto Maple Leafs, because let's face it, you were the only guy that had done it. And that was a big deal. What was that time like for you? Because, you know, you, you played with some really good players during your tenure, but that's specifically that three year stretch of 54, 51, 52. What was that like playing in Toronto and, and having those kind of goal scoring exploits? It was excellent. It was, it was awesome. I mean, Billy Derlega was my sentiment for half of those three years. Danny Daou for the other half. And so, I mean, they were unbelievable. Getting me to puck when I, you know, when I got open and that sort of thing. And, but, you know, being in Toronto, probably, I don't know, Montreal, Toronto, comparable as far as a mecca of hockey and then National Hockey League, I guess. And being there and being able to do that was amazing. Like, it was so much fun. Rick, there was a time, obviously, where 54 goals in a season was the Leafs all-time mark. And now we got Austin Matthews just assaulting the record books year in and year out. And I remember it wasn't that long ago. We think I think that's what, like three years ago, four years ago in which Austin actually eclipsed that mark. Two or three. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't too long ago. But you, for the longest time, had that record. 40 years. Did you ever think somebody would come along and take it from me? Did you ever think we'd see that caliber of score with the Maple Leafs? I never, I never thought a kid coming out of Arizona, that was for damn sure. But, no, he, you know, when I got to talk to him, I got, Frank Mahabas congratulated me when I broke his record. And I got to go down and see him and congratulate him and everything. And it was so good. And he's such a great kid, great player. And then it was funny as part of what it was last year. I saw him at the Leafs and Legends Golf Tournament in September. And we got talking, and I asked him how the summer was. He said it was awesome. I trained real hard. I'm ready to go. I said, well, if you're, if you're that ready, you may as well get 65 or 70, because that'll be around for 100 years unless you break it. And he goes, yeah, okay, I'm ready. So then I saw him in February at the Blue and White at the Royal York. And I said, well, you weren't kidding, were you? Yeah, you know, watching, watching the players today. Listen, I have my own qualms about the way the game is played. Like, we talked off the air, your, your son Justin and I are the same age. We, you know, came up at a certain point. And you even more so when you played, the game was a lot more physical. The game was, let's face it, it was nasty. It was night in night out. There were, there were brawls. There were all sorts of stuff. When you look at the game today, and it feels like we're kind of getting, we're fixing the overcorrection to everything is skill and less physicality. Like when we watch the Florida Panthers win a Stanley Cup or the Vegas Golden Knights, where you out with the way the game is played today, do you feel like there was too much of an overcorrection on everything needs to be skilled? And those guys that can play physical, they kind of had to find their way again. Do you find that we've kind of come back to it a little bit? Well, I think Florida. Sure. Vegas did last year. They both played very physical. They four checked hard. They finished all their checks. And you saw that with the Florida Panthers. And so I think they got it right. And I think to have success in the playoffs, you have to have a team that buys into playing that way. Because you're right, it's kind of gone all to skill. And the players are very skilled. When you look at some of the things they do, it's unbelievable. Like I said to Austin at one time, I think you put it through his legs. And I said, if I ever tried that, I blow a coin or something like, I mean, you know, and he goes, well, no, he said if you you probably work at it all summer, so you wouldn't. And I said, well, that's a good point. But I didn't work at it all summer. But for you and you were playing like that stuff wasn't even a thought. Like even again, even when when I came up playing minor hockey and played junior hockey, like a lot of this stuff was not a thought in your brain. And you watch it. These guys do it at the level that they do it. When we watch Conor McDavid do the things he does at the speed that he does, I think that's probably the biggest thing for me is the speed in which the game is played that these guys can still pull off these elite moves. And you look at it and go like, I think it happens so often in the game now that people actually have a lack of appreciation for how good these guys are. Yeah, they may. I mean, I don't. Well, I'm going to show you that. I mean, these guys are all ultra talented and just to watch the things that they can do with the puck and this thick and like you said, at high speed is incredible. I mean, I don't remember seeing that one. I mean, my view, you were getting hooked all the way down the ice. That's another thing too. Yeah, like hook and hold and someone asked me one time, who was the toughest guy ever played against? And I said, it was Brian Sutter. Sure. And with St. Louis. So we played them like probably eight or nine times a year. And we never had a fight. But when you played against Brian Sutter, which I had to pretty much every year, yeah, when the game was over, you knew that you played a hard 60 minute game because you had to play against him. And that was kind of the way it was. And I'll give it just an example. I remember when I was in Buffalo, we were playing Montreal in the playoffs, the six game series. It went six games. We didn't win. But so I'm in front of that in the power play. And I got Ludwig on my left and Chellios on my way. Oh, great. So the puck goes over here. Chellios comes in and he's cross checking me on the iron like crazy. Puck goes over there. Ludwig comes in. He's cross checking me. And at the same time, Patrick was whackable. Like, you know, I think about that. I look at the referee and he goes shakes his head. All right. Well, they got to cut my arm off, I guess, to get a penalty. But anyway, it's the game has changed, you know, incredible over the years. And, you know, I would like to see a little more physically in a game. I really would. But it is fun watching the talent that these guys have. And, you know, I mean, it's like I you see guys trying to Michigan goal. Yeah. Yep. You imagine trying that against Hexdall or Billy Smith or one of those guys. You wouldn't be able to live to tell the tale. No, like they cut your arm off or something. I mean, it would be it would be incredible. But again, evolution of the game and, you know, there is fun to watch at times to see the skill that these guys have. But at the same time, I wish there was just a little bit more physicality. Yeah, it does feel like, Rick, though, you know, anytime the postseason rolls around, you do get it sort of teetering back in the direction of it being more of that physical, grimy style of hockey all the time. So you still I mean, we still see it and we just illustrated that with the point of Florida and Vegas winning the Cup of the last couple of years. That's part of their identity as a team. So it still exists. Just maybe even more of a vacuum in terms of that three month sample, which is the postseason. One thing that you have in common with a handful of other luminaries in the sport is you've been a captain and you've been the captain for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I'd imagine with that comes, you know, a different level of responsibility than being a captain in other markets. Just in your experience, what can you say about what it's like to wear that letter in this city playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Oh, it was it was unbelievable. I mean, but the funniest part was how I got it. And it was just after Darryl have been traded to Philadelphia and Harold Ballard could like, there's no beating in the GM's office and all that and would you like it or anything like that? Not with Harold. Well, I'm pretty sure they had asked Boria. I'm almost positive. And he said, no, he didn't want that responsibility. And then Harold just came up to me one day and he poked me in the chest and goes, you're the captain. And I'm 22 years old and I'm like, hmm. So I've looked at him and I'm thinking, well, okay, if I say no, he's going to trade my outfit. I know that for a fact. And so I said, okay, okay, no problem. And thank goodness I had Boria sitting to my right in the dressing room because he helped me immensely. If I said something and anybody said anything, he would stand up and give them shit and say, you know, listen to him. He's our captain. And so he helped me immensely in the early days. You talking about Boria Salming and just, you know, another member of any, any since past, as we know, of the Alumni Association. And when you come to an event like this, and you know, we talked to Glenn Healy earlier about what the Alumni Association is doing now and what they have been previously. But it really feels like over the last, let's call it five years or so, it's really kind of ratcheted it up. And there's been a lot of work done for, for alumni members. What does the Alumni Association mean to Rick five? Well, I think it means a lot. I mean, when you think about all the things they're doing now and, you know, glad I'm talking about the guy they have the surgeon in Chicago that, you know, guys and their wives can go and get surgery and he doesn't charge you. And I mean, these things are three or four hundred thousand dollars sometimes. But no, we get treated very, very well by the Alumni Association and the Leaf Alumni is excellent. And, you know, I'm so glad I still live in Ontario and read the benefits of those things. But, you know, and I'm 65 now, so I get that special, yeah, but I only get six years because it only goes up to 1986. So that kind of sucks. But, you know, hopefully maybe in the next CBA, they could bump it up to like 94 or something. Sure. Yeah, no problem. When the salaries are going crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'll get the benefit of 13 years. Yeah, I got one more. Yeah, go ahead. We've already established that you're pretty, pretty good. You know, you're way around the track out here. Is there anybody that you're excited to spend time with to play with? Maybe some of you haven't seen in a while that you're hoping to reconnect with today and just have the opportunity to socialize and get out there? Or do you have a preference as to I'm not sure if you know who you're playing with yet, but do you do have an idea as to who you would like to play without there? Well, you don't want to think the best thing about this is just seeing the guys that you haven't seen for a while. Guys you played with, guys you played against. And I think Rich Sutter is going to be here today with Brad May and you know, I played with Brad and it's funny because Brad always talks about it. His very first NHL shift was on my line in Buffalo and we were played against Pittsburgh and they put him and I and I can't remember who our sentiment was and they put us up against Mario, Lemieux and Yager and I forget who else was on it. I don't think it mattered at that point. No, no, it really didn't and we outscored them to nothing. Oh, geez. Nice. And that that Brad still talks about that because that was probably like that's his first NHL game. Sure. Yeah. And you're playing against these great players and we shut them down and outscored them. And so that was a big day for him and well, it was obviously a big day for me to score those guys, but it was fun. It was so, I mean, just seeing the guys, like I said, a lot of them you didn't play with, you played against, but you know, we were even even though you played against these guys, you became friends. Like, you know, I mean, if we went into St. Louis, like Brian Sutter, like I said, we'd have a nasty game for 60 minutes. But then we'd probably go out and have a beer together, you know, and that sort of thing and Rob Ramage. Rob Ramage was a good buddy of mine. We played together in the WHA when we were in 19. I'd be in front of the net. He'd be shopping at my legs and everything and I'd give it back to him. After the game, we'd go up the church street and sit down, have a beer and have a chat and, you know, so regardless of whether you played against them or played with them, it's great to see the guys here get chatting and have a few laughs. And that's what it's all about. I have to ask you, you talked about the WHA, I have to ask you about the WHA because you read this, like, I'm not of that vintage. So I hear it from my dad who watched the WHA and I hear stories from people that I work with. Like, you were 18 years old. Not you were 19 years old. You played for Birmingham. You had 248 penalty minutes. What was the WHA like? Because all the stories I hear is like, it felt like the Wild West, but it had like that rock star kind of feel to it as well. The long, you know, is the long hair and mustache is where the NHL was buttoned down and suits and it really did have that feel to it. Was it, did it have that feel for you as well? Well, I didn't have the long hair of the mustache, but I was 19, but it was funny because Birmingham, the year before we got there, they had like six of the toughest guys in the league. Yeah, I can't even remember half their names, but well, John Brophy would have been the coach, right? So, well, the year before, the year before was somebody else. Oh, so you I was just you that had brought yeah, well, that's that's so a lot of it too. They were they all left. Yeah. And we didn't have any more. So kind of the reason I had 248 penalty minutes, because, you know, there were we had Dave Hanson. That was it. Yeah, he was the only guy left. And you still had more penalty minutes than him. Well, he did play last games, but you still have more. Yeah, I got the kick out a lot more. But but then again, you know what, I think the biggest thing was you was you got to get in. You got to get into the fight. You got to you got to stay in it. And you can't let these guys intimidate you. And that's kind of the way I I was already wired that way, bro, for minding me a couple of times, but I was already wired that way. Anyway, I'm not going anywhere. You're not going to intimidate me. I'll fight you. You might break my nose. So what deal? I'm going to come back at you. My break yours. Yeah. Well, that's kind of the way I played and the way I was wired. And so that's why so many penalty minutes. But I did get beat up quite a bit. I mean, I've never been in enough fights to be beaten up. I mean, when I was, I was I went I asked my son to who six six two forty five. Yes, Justin is a man. I said, son, I wish I had your size and I could go back in time and beat the hell out of all the guys that get out of me. And he goes, well, that'd be great dad. But guess what? That's not going to happen. Yeah. I said, well, he calls me pop. Sorry. He says that pop said they're going to happen. And I said, okay, fine. But it would have been nice. Yeah, no kidding. I think a lot of us would have been like to have been blessed with Justin size. Listen, thanks so much for taking some time for us today. Have a great day out there. I'm sure you'll hit him straight and have fun. I mean, you talked about, you know, seeing some of the guys that you played with or played against enjoy the day. It looks like it's going to be a fun one. I'm looking forward to it. It's good. It's a beautiful out there and get to see some of the guys and shoot the breeze and have a good time. Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for my pleasure, guys. There he goes. Rick Vive 50 goal score, 441 goals in the NHL and of course added 26 with the WHA's Birmingham Bulls in 78 79. Listen, I mean, and only 176 games as he reminds us. Listen, Nellie, we talk about we talk about the the Toronto Maple Leafs and their history. I mean, Rick talked about Austin Matthews and breaking his record and I mean, we we await the the breakout for this team and we talk about Austin Matthews. It's funny how when you watch him play, you just see all you see all the things that he's able to do. And then you go, the sky feels like the limit here. But yeah, but the lack of playoff success is something that is plagued many players that have gone through the Toronto Maple Leafs. Absolutely. I mean, there's, you know, we think of a franchise icons. I guess the most recent example of a guy that's been very, very good is, you know, Matt Sundine, for example, who for for many years he provided us with some iconic moments but didn't achieve the ultimate playoff success. And that's something that I think is part and parcel of defining legacies with careers. Like nowadays, especially maybe more than the past, we define a lot of what a player is or what their legacy is based on what they've ultimately want and how often they've won. So I think that's a big piece of all of this. And it factors into the equation when we talk about him. Matt Marquesi, Danieli Franceski here with you on the fan morning show live at Coppenwood, ahead of the NHL Alumni Association's golf tournament. Speaking of greatness and speaking of a guy that has won, he's won individual awards. He is one of the great Leafs of all time. He's one of the great players of all time. Doug Gilmore joins us. Doug, how are you today? Morning guys. How are you? We're great. We're talking with Rick Vive. The weather's great. Like you guys kind of asked for a better day. And you know, it's like the Ricky as well. Like this is probably as two hundredth round this year. Oh yeah, he's he's out every day. He's he's there ain't no cheating with Rick. Like you know how good he is. We talked about the Alumni Association and you're a proud member of it. What does the Alumni Association mean for Doug Gilmore? Well, I just think being a part of it for 20 years in the National Hockey League and then Geneshell PA and then you go to the Alumni Association and there's always different things that happen in life. And we're here to get back as well. So Heels has done a great job. And I don't know, Nate's did a good job before, but it's something that we're getting more involved in it and trying to raise funds for, you know, obviously our friends, I need it. I know Rick was, you know, kind of downplaying how good he is and how consistent he is on the golf course. He was trying to, you know, he's trying to tell us that he shot over 80 a couple times and he felt bad about it. But how's your game, Doug? Like, what's the state of your game these days? And when you step out here, what are we looking for today? Well, it's, believe it or not, I got here and I see I'm with a group and it's one of my good friends from Lee's side back in the days. Oh, nice. I haven't seen Terry in probably a couple years. And so it's been, I'm in Burlington and belong to the golf course there. They love me because I get about 15 rounds in a year. That's it. So they're just collecting money and that's it. I played a lot of tournaments guys and obviously people want you to be there and it's all over the place. I got to go to East Coast. I'm not going to West Coast this year, but in around this area, a lot of places in Ontario, North Bay, etc. And so it's just fun to get out and meet people. And again, you want to go back to the golf game? I don't think I put a score in for two years because I don't want to say a bag anybody. Nice. So have I broke a hundred? Yes, but I'm not going to say. Yeah. I've also been over the last little bit. And again, as we all get older here, your body doesn't like it as much either. When you talk about the playing career, we talked to heels about the post-playing career. You accomplished so much in your career. You've had a fantastic one. When you look at the post-playing career, what was the hardest adjustment? Because the one thing that we kept coming back to was the schedule. You're regimented when you're in the NHL. You get there for your morning skate or practice, and then you've got meetings, you've got this, you've got lunch, nap, and then it's off your game day routine. Was that maybe the hardest adjustment for you post-playing career? I think it for everybody, yes. And mentally, the excitement that you get when you go on the ice to start a game, you're never getting that back. I spent 11 years in junior afterwards, so there's excitement there as a coach. Sure. They have a side of it as a general manager, and there's a lot of great things to it. And again, it's kind of full circle to junior side of it. But the hardest part about being a gym in junior is cutting kids. Sure, because they all have a dream like we did, and it's, I don't want to reality, but it's still, it's not a lot of fun. Doug, you've had the privilege of playing in some really incredible markets, you know, and you've also had the opportunity to play in the United States and Canada, and we have this discussion routinely. It comes up all the time about the differences in playing in a US market, and we just saw Florida win the Stanley Cup, so everybody is harping on floor, especially in Toronto, as we know. But in your experience, given that you had the opportunity and the privilege of being in both situations, what can you tell us about maybe the differences in playing in a Canadian market versus what it's like to play in the cities that you experience down so? Yeah, so I was obviously fortunate, three and a half years in Calgary, five and a half Toronto, then almost two years of Montreal, and it's something that, you know, there's a lot of watchdogs and a lot of people. That's a nice way of saying us. You're talking about us. I'm going to tell you a story. When I got traded in New Jersey, the first two weeks, Dave Bell and I are actually the first two and a half months, we stayed in the hotel and then season was over and then you had to go home. But two weeks after I got there, we're in the Netherlands and we're in Sea Caucus, where we're staying at a hotel, and finally my car arrives. So drive up, we're coming into the Netherlands, the rink, and the guy says, "Can I help you?" I said, "Yeah, it's a player." What's your name? Where's your pass? I said, "My car just came here." He goes, "We've never heard you get parked over there." So that's my first... Thanks a lot. Here we go. So again, but at the same time, it's refreshing that you, you know, just spend a lot more time with your family and friends and not worry too much, but half my career was in the States and it's something that they're great fans. You talk about, you know, you don't really talk about regrets, but I guess the one regret that I never played anywhere warm. I was going to say, like, of all... Is it because, you know, the one thing that... And Brian Burke talked about this with Scott Neatermeyer, and when he went to Anaheim, Scott Neatermeyer could go to the grocery store, and nobody knew who Scott Neatermeyer was, and that was... It was totally fine with him. Is that part... When you see the players today, how much do you think that weighs into the decisions about where they want to go? Because, like, the no-tax thing is great because, I mean, so many of these no-tax states are also in very warm climates, which people tend to forget. But when you talk about that, like, how... And even now with social media, you played in a time where social media was not around, so you didn't have to necessarily deal with the same type of, you know, coverage, but there was a lot, especially when you were in Toronto. Is that maybe something that you wished, like, wonder what that would have been like? Because you played in St. Louis and Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, Buffalo, like, there's a lot of media attention. You know what, you absorb that, you accept it. You're in a hockey market. So when you get up in the morning, you go to the rink, and there's a lot of people there waiting for you or going to watch you play that night. It's exciting, guys. Like, you can't, again. It's not the same when you go, I walk out of the dressing room in New Jersey. It's not the same. So, again, it's not that you have to pump yourself up because that's mentally, you got to be ready each and every game. But there's a big difference when you're in that environment. And, like I said, you got to absorb that and accept it. But it's, in my eyes, I would not trade those years in Canadian markets, for sure. So, before we let you go, I have to tell you, my wife is going to be very jealous because you were her favorite player growing up. And I know when she hears this, she's going to be like, damn you, for getting to talk to Doug Gilmore. When you look at the current iteration of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and you see, you know, it feels like they're so close sometimes, and then it feels, you know, like a game seven loss against Boston is so far. If you could give one piece of confidence to the Toronto Maple Leafs fan base, and with this team, and you say, I believe in them because what do you see? They've got talent. I think the offseason, you know, a new GM coming in, and now he's putting his mark on it. And I love the changes. We just got to keep believing, guys, you can't trade away talent. The one thing you need is talent all year. And nobody knew that Matthews was going to be heard, or Newlander. It makes it was coming back from a high ankle sprain. So just play the year out, make sure the goal tends solid. You get some new defense. You know, talent wanted to be here. That's great news. Just keep building because, you know, the regular season, obviously, it means a lot. But, you know, the playoffs mean everything. So this is what the biggest thing for these guys is fans and media. They don't remember the regular season. So this is where they got to go out and make memories for themselves. And for the rest of the fan base, who's been, uh, jones in for some playoff success over the last little bit. Doug, thanks so much for taking some time. Have a great day on the golf course. Thank you so much. Have fun. There he goes. Doug Gilmore, Hall of Fame forward, Leafs legend. I mean, we could go down the list. Just a fantastic career. 1,400 points over his illustrious career. Um, with his body. Still, uh, still as I as I like to look back on what a fantastic career he had, just one of the great Leafs of all time. Absolutely was. And you know, talking to him there brings back some memories of growing up as a Leaf fan and watching him do his thing, which was fantastic, especially that night to 93 season, 127 points in 95 assists. Just fantastic. Uh, we might not be talking about a Leaf team that hadn't reached the Stanley Cup final. I mean, Doug, it was close, man. They were close. That was as before my time. That's as close as they've ever been close as they've been. Uh, we got to take a break. Um, when we come back, there's going to be more alumni rolling through. Absolutely. Glenn Healy and Rick Vive and Doug Gilmore, there's going to be more here. We're live at Coppenwood Golf Club for the NHL Alumni Association golf tournament. This is the fan morning show Matt Marchese in the LA franchise. We'll be with you here. We will be back in a few moments. (dramatic music)
