[MUSIC] >> My God, what a sad start to a Friday. I mean, the tone is fitting that that first Schneider clip. I thought we were gonna get like I will survive as the musical undertones. We just, you put one foot in front of the other and slowly march towards death. It is either the trade deadline or game 162. You tell me and then they'll put me out of my misery. >> They'll put me out of my misery. My goodness, yeah, that's it, there you go. Man, yeah, Sheldon nailed it, nailed it. Nailed it with your end of Leafs tenure presser by the lake and nailed it with that assessment right there. Good morning, everyone, fan morning show, Gunnar and Daniele along with you. My God, this Blue Jays team and, you know, we were talking about this before the Mike Slip. No, not the 12 minutes of LeBron talk, we crammed into seven minutes. No, not that. We were talking about this Jays team and last night there are shows you can do where you come in here and it's over 37 with runners in scoring position or? >> I mean, I won't, I can't do it justice. The like Ben coming in here the day after Vlad, he got picked off second to end the season last year. Like there are days where it calls for consternation and anger and what's wrong? How do we end up? Yeah, that was a baseball game yesterday. These things happen. You can't get too bogged down by it, but I think I think the, and you know, we can talk about that aspect of it, but the thing that just jumped out to me and I don't know that the team would say this is why they're feeling it, but maybe if they dig deep, they'd realize this is why is that's a playoff team and you're not. You just got a front row seat at it, that's going to be a playoff team and they're not one. >> They're not one right now. >> Right now. >> They're going to be. >> Yep. >> And even if they're not, that's so much closer to a playoff team than you appear to be are and I just, I can only imagine how, again, I don't think they wholly think of it this way, but it's got to be a little moment for looking through yourself in the mirror and saying, yeah, there's very pretty big difference between what's going on over there and what we got here. >> Yeah. I mean, they should be privy to that already. There's a golf between what they are as a team and what some of these other organizations are. A month ago, they're playing teams that are above 500. Every opponent that they played in the last, what is that I have in front of me, it's 22 games. >> Yeah. >> They've played, has been a team above 500. Also, here's the thing. I think, this was my biggest sweeping takeaway yesterday, I guess, because I was trying to figure out what is there to deduce from that type of game? And the point just comes back to, it's pretty simplistic. It's just not good enough, but you're just, you are what you are. And you see it, this is where a team like Houston, maybe this is the big takeaway, that in a game like yesterday where there's a lot of unpredictability, there's a lot of spontaneity, there's ups and downs, they are able to work through their mistakes better than the Toronto Blue Jays can. And that is part and parcel a personnel thing. And in addition to that, it's having pedigree, which plays a big factor in spots like that in closer games. And you see Houston Bulls, a 3-0 lead, they don't blink, they don't flinch, they just come right back and they're able to tack on a couple runs, bullpen comes in and is nails and holds down the fort. You know, the J scored three runs in the first and then had five base runners the rest of the game. Doesn't work very good. So that's not a recipe for success for any baseball team, that is probably what stood out most. Because as you put it, it was a baseball game. And that's essentially what it was. There was nothing overly dramatic about the way it unfolded, except you had one team that I think showed a little bit of more of their maturity and poise as opposed as opposed to the Toronto Blue Jays, who right now are really struggling to establish any momentum to find themselves. It feels like they don't have an identity. I guess the other thing, even last year, at least they had an identity, we knew it was all pitching in defense. They're going to win games three, two, two to one. They're going to skate by as best they can. This year you say, what are the 2020 for Toronto Blue Jays? We don't really know how to define that or answer that question. Yeah. No, definitely the, I mean, even, you know, a day they struggle yesterday, this is now back to back games, this score and the first inning, that was like maybe going to be the thing that defined them in terms of their offensive ineptitude, they're even flipping that on its head and scoring early in ball games now. You know, something we had talked about earlier on this week, I wouldn't go as far as say I'm a tastemaker, but I did call for it and he did appear there, George Springer, back in the lead-off spot. I've had in a couple of games now. Two more knocks yesterday, I, what, it doesn't change for me anything about the Jays season if George Springer has a, you know, reclamation second half or something. But how much does it change the tenor of the conversation for you about the off season? If Springer is a different guy, you know, it's funny. I was thinking about this when we were talking about with Marosi yesterday and you mentioned the Springer trade is God, he almost felt like a perfect like non waiver or sorry, waiver trade deadline guy from back in the day. Oh, yeah. Oh, big money. Nobody wants that, but it has another hot month and some team is going, God, we do need a warm bottle and it's only $50 million or whatever it is that's left on the book. He did feel like a classic guy who would have got traded at the end of August, and it's like, may not playoff eligible, that's okay. But you know, I, we've gotten so far with Springer that it does feel like you, the idea of a hot week or a hot month, even turning your perception around can't exist, it does feel like you'd have to have, and it's not this. I mean, he's been on fire, he's been hitting, you know, close to 500 over more than the last week. That obviously is not going to sustain itself, but if you can just get something closer to you know, average offensive production out of him, how much does that kind of change the conversation about what they have or if he's even here for you this offseason? Yeah, I think it changes it in a big way. The reality is, and I posed that question to John yesterday in regards to, is there enough runway still left for him to rehabilitate any meaningful trade value? I think, you know, the most likely scenario is that there isn't, there probably isn't a world where you can have a team sort of squint and close one eye and say, you know what? Okay, the contract sucks, but we'll do it, probably not. As John laid out, I think the most likely scenario, if you were motivated to get rid of him is you'd have to attach him to him far more valuable asset as part of a bigger trade. But I do think given that the odds are he's going to be, you're married to this and he's going to be on your roster, if you can have him performing at a league average level offensively, you'll gladly take that, you'll be happy with that. Because again, opening day 2025, it's more likely than not, he is on that roster and in that lineup. So as such, you want to see him at least perform, he's not going to be the springer of old, but give us root like regular sustainable production of being a decent major league hitter. And if that's you as the lead off man, George, give us an high on base percentage, work good at bats and he's been doing that routinely lately, which is encouraging. Now let's see it, you know, sort of extend to a larger sample because I know a lot of people have made this point and I even referenced it. Last year was his healthiest year as a Blue Jay and yet if you looked at his offensive production, it was one of his worst among, you know, the years in which he's performed over the course of a full 162 game schedule. We're clearly on the decline here, but if you're going to salvage any element of this contract and what's left, he's got to give you something offensively. That's it. And right now you're kind of married to this reality. Unless some team decides to bail you out, which is highly unlikely, you just got to sort of say, okay, let's hope for the best here, let's pencil them into our lineup and into the equation, whether that includes some of these other guys who are on expiring deals or might be more tradable, George Springer is probably still here and in the cards for you over the next couple of years. Yeah, it certainly feels that way. What do they have in Spencer Horowitz and is it a great question less than we're giving them credit for? I am always, especially with a guy who comes up with this exact story of, hey, he is not a prospect. Okay. He's he's fully baked. He is what he is. You get him up here. You squeeze what you can and then you throw him to the wayside. Whenever a guy comes up with that story, I will admit it always takes me longer to believe this is a guy who's hitting 3 14, the OBS is above 900. We know how sample sizes work in baseball, but three more knocks last night drives in a couple of runs. A guy who can again, I don't want to overstate it like he's Ben Zobrist out here, but can play a couple of different positions for you. I think at the very least, this can be their Davis Schneider story of last year, not in the spectacular way he burst onto the scene, but a guy who comes in here and at worst case scenario, he should be one of the 26 men on this team next year, worst case scenario. Better case. Maybe he forces a Davis Schneider scenario where he's in the lineup more often. And on this team, he definitely should be playing every day right now. But yeah, I think it's, it's always an interesting question when you have a player with this kind of profile arrive and really perform the way he has, I think it's, I think it's two for one. I'm in full agreement. If you can have this be one of the bright spots of your season, then that is a positive. I've been sort of saying for weeks now that if 2024 means anything for this franchise, let it mean change and change in terms of what we see on the field and maybe what happens off the field, but let it resemble change in some fashion. If Spencer Horowitz can prove his worth as a major league player in this sample that he has now where he's getting, he's going to have the opportunity and the runway. That's a win for the Toronto Blue Jays and the reality is going forward. I feel like he profiles best as a guy that as you alluded to is more of a utility presence on your roster as opposed to an everyday player. And that's okay. You need those kind of players on your team. Is should he, can he be an everyday second baseman or or and we've seen him play first, obviously? Probably not. Like that's probably not in the cards for him. But it's good to have that kind of utility coming off the bench and this goes back to something we touched on briefly yesterday, which is the overall playability and versatility of the roster. It's funny how for a franchise that for years has preached versatility and diversity of talent on the roster as a whole that they went into this season with a really rigid roster and limited options in terms of the overall utility of different guys like a Volgo back. Like I mean, Justin Turner can only DH essentially, like there's limited utility in how you deploy a lot of these guys, Horowitz fits the mold of somebody that can sort of play in a variety of different roles. And I think crucially, what I do feel like we're trending towards, you know, the universal DH, you know, came to effective a few years ago and now you're seeing teams really take advantage of it. It's obviously always been a thing in the American League. I think the Blue Jays going forward are going to start to veer away from just saying we're going to plop a specific individual into that role and say you're the DH and this is where Horowitz comes into play. This is where Vlad. He comes into play. I think that we're going to see them be more flexible in terms of rotating different guys through. And I think that starts next year because the idea of having to marry yourself to one player getting the bulk of the starts and at bats in that particular spot, I think that's just not feasible and it's not sustainable. That's where I think Horowitz kind of factors in as well. No, the best teams don't have a set in stone DH. It is a place to get your guys off of their feet. It's the reason why the Blue Jays and, you know, vocal Bach to a way, way lesser extent, but Turner as well needed to go that route is because they were searching for any semblance of pop and they had to bring in anybody that they thought could have forget pop even just with Turner. Not to say it was completely absent, but you're just looking for good ABs out of him. Absolutely. And that's why they had to go out that route. It was just per, it was more admission, quite frankly, at the lack of an offense they had built that they had to go out and get those guys. And that's why you'll see, I mean, it'll be an admission again. If you were looking at a team, please, they can be Justin Turner again as he's a year older, but if it's bodies like that in those spots, well, then they haven't done their work to build up the offense. So this is now, this team now is so far beneath 500. What is the nine games? Nine games. Yeah, most they've been under 500 since 2019 when they lost 95 games that year. Now a couple of fun facts, a couple of fun facts about that team pulling up the baseball reference page. Any guests, there are two players tied for the team lead in war that year. Oh man. It's going to be depressing. So I won't make you guess. I'll just tell you. Can I take a guess? Yeah, go for it. Absolutely. Tied for the team lead. Yeah. Team lead in war. Yeah. Okay. It was not random. Not close. Although he did hit 31 bones. That's why because he was their probably their most productive offensive player. Oh, who the heck else was on that? I know that obviously that's the beginning of bow and Vlad coming up. There was some Bizio action in there, but that that that that that no rewar, no, and Kevin Elvis. Come on. Yeah. Marcus Strowman in a two point eight, and he got traded halfway through the air. That's right. Eric Sogard, a little Kettin Giles action. Yeah, man. This is also the year that he who tried to catch a ball with his face. Derek Fisher played 40 games legend for your team. Billy McKinney was on that team. Now again, like that it also does kind of prove positive of how what's the right word? Unlikeable. This group can be a time that, you know, you go like say how you would feel about these guys. Danny Chantel was a young block play in a hundred games. It's like Justin smoke. I know we all got frustrated, but it's like he did the thing he was supposed to do, occasionally running into one. Yeah, I like to joke that you gave a stat yesterday about who was the all time leader or something. It was a, Oh, it was Jordan Alvarez in terms of the way he matches Roger center or against the J's. Correct. I was going to give the fakes that that it's second most to Justin smoke and games that I personally attended. I don't think I ever attended a game in which he did not go deep. But I mean, Justin smoke like again, a player that we all had our frustrations with. But when he's just a big first baseman, it's supposed to hit bombs and he did it on occasion. This was T Oscar. This was Lord us before he really broke out, you know, the Brendan jury, Lord knows there were enough takes had about him on this. But there were still some guys on that team that you could, you know, like wrap your arms around and, you know, that's supposed to be Davis Schneider and the rotation is definitely there. And I think that's the other thing is it's so different when all the guys on the team that pull their weight and you're supposed to like quite frankly, when they're all starting pitchers and, you know, it works out that the J's have so many of them that you do kind to see one of those guys every day. But it's not the same as having a position player. Think about what a, what a buoy bow has been for this in this regard of the guy who's just going to be in the lineup every day. And yes, he's going to have streaky nature to it because he's a baseball player, but he's going to produce day in and day out or by the time of the seasons that it'll feel that way. It's just so different when the guys you're, you can trust or you say, huh, great, he's here. They're a starting pitcher and you see them once every five, six days. It's so different. Oh, it is. It is vastly different. You need those pillars to be position players respect with respect to starting pitching, which we know is vital and you need to have high end starting pitching guys that you're every fifth day that you can look forward to like doc holiday, like Roy holiday. Every fifth day was like, okay, shut down and, and, and for three hours, focus your attention on the Toronto Blue Jays because he's one of the best in all the baseball. He's one of the greatest of all time and you're going to see something special more often than not when he pitches. I just, I, you know, I don't know why this, but like Bryce Harper popped into my mind as a guy. And you know, Jordan Alvarez is another one, Aaron judge, like you need those guys. You need those players to be the pillars of your franchise. And, and the visibility, like from a performance standpoint, but also even like, we're talking about branding and marketing and visibility. Those guys are important to helping raise the profile of your team. Here's the thing. And it's, I don't know, it's weird that we end up on this subject, but you referencing the 2019 team. Yeah. Even if we go through the 2021 season at this point, like we go up from, you know, 20, 18 through to the 2021 season, there was an element of like this innocent sort of ascent and development that is occurring. And you have patience or, you know, sure, we want to see winning baseball. And there were a lot of people who were very dejected by the fact that they're losing 90 plus games. But you sort of had this, this idea that there might be a light at the end of the tunnel. Now the tricky part is they're mediocre. And it feels like the people in power gunner are not going to be, they're not going to be the most willing to admit failure. And this is natural. And I've made this point a few times and I think it is, it is relevant and it is important. It takes a big person with a big resume to be able to stand up there, put hand up. We bleeped up and we need to pivot. And now this is the time for us to go in a different direction. Look, we apologize. We take ownership for this because more often than not, those guys don't get another kick at it. Man, not to, not to make everything about the Leafs, but that isn't even what happened with them. And who is a bigger man with a bigger resume than Brendan Shanahan? Even he didn't stand up eventually, we got to that point, but his hand was kind of forced by the guy who wanted to leave or a power play with him. City next to right. No, no, but I'm not even talking about this year. I'm talking about last year when Brendan Shanahan said we are making a change, we're moving up. That wasn't what he wanted to do. He didn't want to sit there and say, I'm a big man. Look at my resume and I'm firing Kyle Dubas. That isn't what he wanted to say. He wanted to bring him back and have a whole. So even that guy who again seems bulletproof here in this market or at least up until very recently, even he didn't want to sit there and say, we're doing a complete pivot. This has gone wrong. So and again, like what, aside, the only guy who has more clout. Even he doesn't want to sit there and say, we've done this wrong and it's taken so long to kind of get to that place. Yeah. I was going to point to the site as a good parallel because I think although he has an explicitly said it, it's clear that they've identified where they've terribly gone wrong throughout this process. But think about how long it took him to get himself to that place now in his case, even for Bobby, that whole franchise, that whole front office. The biggest difference is them pivoting off of what wasn't working and going in this different direction and vision 69 now that has actually evolved to a more traditional realistic version of what basketball is, he can, they can at least still kind of walk into the front hallway for a for a at OVO and there's a a Larry O'Brien trophy sit there. They can point to that. So if I'm just saying, like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to say that, you know, the Jase front office, Ross Atkins, they shouldn't be reticent to admit guilt or failure. But it is interesting to me that this is where it feels like if you're going to be practical and pragmatic overall, even as an organization, then it seems like you probably need other people to make those decisions for you. Because it's highly unlikely that anybody, not just Ross, but anybody in his position in that same position or something that you built and you envisioned for it to unfold a certain way has now backfired that that individual is going to be mature enough to stand there and say, you know what, we did make mistakes and we got to fix this and we got to go in a different direction. As a result of that, that's why I am dubious about what they're going to do at the deadline and what they're going to do in the off season. I have more hope for the off season because you're thinking, okay, maybe there's going to be more wholesale changes at that point. But for now, you're kind of stuck. It feels like given who's in charge and the fact that it doesn't feel like they're going to be privy to sitting there and saying, yeah, you know what, time for us to make difficult decisions and pivot. Yeah, I think honestly, I was worried about the way you were trending with this deadline for that exact reason, but then I think Bulbashek kind of took that out of your hands. I think, you know, we can sit here and talk about a God's been trade and maybe that can happen or Bassett and, you know, all the, all the free agents should go. And I think will go quite, quite frankly, the most interesting, okay, he, he, I think is somebody that you put in a slightly different bucket. But when we're talking about Kakuchi, we're talking about Richards, we're talking about guys of, of Garcia, guys of that ilk, they're gone and, you know, say what you will about Ross Atkins. And again, just go pick any old show where we've talked Blue Jays, I've said exactly what you're thinking that he is still going to be the guy that's going to make those trades and I don't look at this as some franchise defining trade of what you get for Garcia and what you get for Richard. Bassett was performing to the point that there were two or three clubs around the league look in there, lick in their chops. They're licking their chops right now, but they're saying, this is great. I can go in there with a low ball offer. You don't do it then. You just flat out, do not do it. It becomes uncomfortable. You go right into the walk here. I understand that. But that decision was made last off season when you didn't trade them then. So I just think the idea of the consternation of, man, who do you want making these calls at the deadline? Is it a guy that's probably not going to be here when you're making these calls in the off season? The biggest one has kind of been taken out of your hands. So that's why I look at it as kind of having no problem with it being Atkins who makes these trades. Again, like I think there is definitely, if you're out there saying, Oh, I actually would like somebody else because I think you're going to feel better. I, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that's a terrible argument or you're wrong on that. I just think that the, you know, the 1% or the 2% better and look like you hit on the right one prospect in any of these trades and you look at it as a Boffo deadline, like you've completely nailed everything. You hit on one guy that matters in those trades quite frankly. So I, that's where I keep coming back to is that if this was a deadline where the Vlad trade and we'll talk about Vlad maybe after, after seven here or more also the bow trade was very much in the cards. Different conversation. But guess what? Trappiro is still here and he's going to hire the net. Let's say you all, you all want Ross Atkins, you're, you're dying for it. Okay. Who do you think's hiring the next, the next Ross Atkins, who do you think's doing it? It's going to be March fire. It's going to be the next Ross. Well, there's going to be a search committee. I guarantee you love as far away. He's going to be the John Schneider at GM, but God, just love to drink a cold beer and talk trades with guys, you know, crush some peanuts in a scotch and just be men, write it down on a napkin. And I guarantee you whoever the next you have, there's going to be a line of demarcation in terms of a communicator, how it goes. Yes. Communicator is a good word. But what I, but what I say to that is Shapiro is going to be involved in. Let's, let's say that, that everything had gone amazing with Atkins in this tenure. And he, and I mean, that they wouldn't be talking about trading these guys if this was the case, but live in this duality with me. You know who would be involved in those trade conversations? Mark Shapiro. For sure. But unless you are somebody and the Lord knows these people exist out there that are saying complete scorched earth, nobody who's touched this can be allowed near this ever again. That ain't happening. So the idea that there's such a clamoring or you have to make your move now or you can't allow him near the deadline, I just don't look at it that way. And it's all because of one guy, it's Boba Shet and his performance this year. You're not trading them the way he's performing. Yeah. You know what? Um, I think weirdly, he might have bought himself more time because of the fact that bow hasn't been performing to the level that really, it's really bizarre. That that's the case. But it feels like they can look at this holistically and say, okay, what are the most as you laid out? What are the most pivotal decisions we're going to make in two weeks time? Yeah. None, none that are going to drastically alter the overall complexion of our franchise. So do we really need to ensure that whoever's making those calls is somebody that we fully trust? Yeah. No, it's okay. We can kind of play this out until the end of the season at which point then you reevaluate. I've always found this fast enough for the last couple of years. Sure. So the pyro has sort of strategically tried to really distance himself from the baseball operation side of things. Like when he got here, it was a, it was hands on. For sure. Full hands on. Heck, that's part of the reason why Alex and Thopolis walked out the door is because there was this, this, this schism in, in, in, you know, philosophy between him and, and Mark Shapiro, which resulted in, and Alex saying, I don't think I can work with this guy. I got to, I got to get out of here. And yet here we are 2024. Now, we, we, the only time we ever hear or see him is when it has something to do with the building. Yeah. The stadium. Other than that, he's kind of unseen, unheard, yet he's still at the end of the day. I, I'm in full agreement with you. Part of the title of being president of the baseball team is managing the baseball team, you know, not just the business side of it all, but also the product that goes on the field and you're, you can, you can 100% bet that he's going to be heavily involved in whatever, whatever occurs in terms of front office changes, or even if it comes to deciding is John Schneider going to continue on as the manager, all of that, all those discussions involve him. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. They, they certainly do. Just to put a little bit of a finer point on exactly where the J sit after, after that series loss against, against the strobes there, they're now eight and a half out of a wild card. That has them tied with the Rangers and the Tigers. Just to put that in perspective though, run differential on the year. Rangers minus seven tigers minus 26. That's not very good. Right? Oh yeah. Blue Jays minus 61. They're way closer to the angels than they are. Anybody of that, that would have them with the third worst run differential in the entirety of the national league and like, look, I understand four, worse than the American league. Yeah, it's not, it's not pretty. Yeah. Yeah. The only teams that are, the only teams that they can laugh at, that they can Nelson months, are the white socks, the athletics, the angels, and then the J's themselves, even the Tampa Bay Rays, who are terrible at minus 52 have got a healthy margin between them and the J's on that. And I do have a little nugget actually as a relates to the fact that they're eight and a half back. Here's a little nugget for you. And this should just absolutely bury anybody that's like, Oh, you never know. Let's see how it sort of unfold. Maybe they go on a hot streak where they, they do what the Astros did. And they end up winning, you know, 18 of 20 games or something along those lines. Okay. When the J's made the postseason in 2015, the biggest deficit they faced was five and a half games. And at any point in that season, that's when things were going sideways for half of the year. Yeah. The largest deficit they faced in the postseason picture was five and a half. The year after in 2016, the largest deficit they faced was four and a half games. And also historically, in the history of the franchise, the most that they have ever overcome in terms of games back of a playoff spot in terms of reaching the postseason was 10. That came in 1989. So suffice to say, odds are they are who they are. They're mediocre. They're not making the postseason. Let's just, let's just call it what it is. Yeah. Again, the most games have been under 500 since the 2019 chase. And let me, let me just give you some more luminaries from, from that squad. Anthony Alford who played 16 games. Our man doesn't even play baseball. Socrates, burrito playing 17 of them things. Hey, I know that drink. Yeah. And then Richard Urania, you got playing 30 games there. Yeah. For that team. God, Kevin Clark played five. Wasn't it? Alan Hanson was the other one. I skipped over him. He said, I thought his name was slightly less funny than the other guys. No, no, no. I know Alan Hanson. I remember him in burrito, man. They had a moment. They did. They were brutal. That was their moment. Beryl's Reese Maguire. Just boy, name and dudes. We might do that a couple more times today. I do love name and dudes. It's Friday after all. And it's a fan morning show. Gutter and Danielle, you talk about the Raptors. They held on to this Bruce Brown contract. Seems like a heady move. Will they be able to move it? We'll find out next. And by that, I mean, we'll just talk about it. I'm not about to announce a Raptors trade. That would be wild. Good morning, show continues, got to get Danielle a sports net five down to the fan. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. God, I feel like I have Ron Burg in the app to do the ladies and gentlemen. This is an urgent news announcement. I just found this out. I was looking. I don't know who else does this of like you see a news story and you clock it and you're like, okay, I'll deal with that when the time comes. Like got it on the radar. Throw that away because how many times it's like, oh, the comments coming and then like it doesn't come. Right? It's like the sky is falling. Don't look up. And then it doesn't happen and we're all fine. The LCB on on strike overnight. I saw that it was happening. And again, I just assume like, yeah, it's like the TTC last week I came in here. The whole of the 680 was burning. They're like, the TTC, it's kind of strike. What are they going to do? And rightfully so preparing everyone. And guess what? Because they came to a deal with the very last minute. That's just moving people around. This is says booze people. We got to figure this out. Okay. Like, you know, sounds like I have a problem here and like, you know, drink responsibly. Yadda yadda yadda. But like it is a Friday of a weekend in the summer. It's going to be hot as something. I have a lot of descriptors I want to use, none of which I think would be a good idea right now. But just good call gunner. Figure this out. Okay. I, I'm just flailing it everybody. I'm going to name some names. One of you. Figure it out. First things first. Jeff as a party. You're my producer. Fix this problem for me. Second things. Olivia Chow. Doug Ford. Trudeau. I don't care the law to you. Someone. Figure this out. And also like, you know, strike a fair deal. Don't crush the workers. I, you know, for the proletariat's also like, good job sticking it to the man. Like striking workers. Good job. Sticking it to the man. So if we can find a way to stick it to them and you could sell me a six pack that'd be like, if we could do both those things at the same time. Yeah, we are, we are seriously on the border of people losing their sanity over this. Like there's, there's levels, there's enjoyment, there's sanity, there are, there are lives at stake here. People. You alerted me. I didn't know that. Yeah, I know. My boy, Ben. Ben was in line. I saw. I've been lying. That line looked long. It's pretty. He couldn't like pull like, like, I'm, I'm royalty and Burlington people. That was. Look at my hair. Look at this. Wow. God. He looks important. But again, everyone ordinary, they're like, this guy looks important. Maybe it's his fault. Yeah. That's probably why they were keeping him at the background. I'm like, you look too close to making decisions about this house. I know the TCC was a big one. Yeah. I got, I got, I caught one of this fully yesterday and it was Josh that alerted me to the fact that as of midnight, that was the deadline. They were going to go on strike. And then I, I immediately thought, man, like, you know, what, what are, what are scenarios or what are institutions at, in which things are, it feels like it's big. It's a big deal. Yeah. If something gets shut down. And you know, TDC is master for obvious reasons. Sure. You think, imagine a telecommunications something happens. Yes. All these various, all these various necessities of life. And then I'm thinking the LCBO for me at least will be pretty far down on the list because I'm not. Yeah. That's fine. I don't indulge. Yeah. I understand. Yeah. Given how what people do on a daily basis, God man, it's, it's pretty high up on that list. Gunner. It really is can't stand. It's too nice. That's the other problem. Like if I, I know people be like, trust me, I need my booze in the winter. I like, I like a glass of red, but it's a nice summer weekend. This cannot stand. Again, I don't know who to blame. Start with you, Jeff. Figure this out. And then again, everybody else. I bet as well as they're loading up. Yes. As though probably like pitchfork outside. How dare you? How dare you look at what you've taken from us? All right. It's enough on that, but I might end the show with that again, just like, I don't know. You guys go clip, whatever the best part of that was, that's what's happening after me and Danielle, you were like, right in each other's eyes and say, good morning, she's been doing that also. You've fully been into it. I feel like he might, he might forego good mornings without me. You won't. I will not bully Ben. No, no, no. No, absolutely not. No, no. He can do whatever he wants. No, no, no. No, no, no. As a show ends, when I'm not here, you look him dead in his eyes. Like you want to tell him you love him and you tell him good morning, okay? Even if he doesn't, you, as he starts winding down, you got a look in so he knows it's coming. I love you. Ben. Yeah. See, just like that. Just like that. You mentioned a guy by the name of Bruce Brown. I fake promise breaking Raptors trade and then I remembered what it sounded like I was saying and I just, we're going to talk about him. So Bruce Brown, interesting deal that picked up there's God, there's been so many, so much talk about what the Raptors did or didn't get and here at the end of it, we're talking about Bruce Brown and interesting contract, right? There was much debate about whether they were just going to say no thanks to the team option there. What 23 million was at it, which is five bucks an NBA money now is my understanding. He gets it. He can bum the rest of that off Jason Tatum, but you know, we know how important it is to match contracts in this league. If you want to make trades, what did you make of them kind of picking up the option holding on to the asset or if you feel it is one and then this report that the Lakers might have a little interest here. Yeah. He's, he is an asset. He is an asset because he's only one season removed from being a valuable contributor on a championship winning team in Denver and quite frankly to his credit as a player, Bruce Brown, he's worked himself into a position routinely where he's sort of become an indispensable part of a lot of various teams that he's been on. If you think about where his career started to where he was last year in earning a two year, forty five, forty six million dollar deal and free agency from Indiana, that's impressive. Like this is a guy that was a complete afterthought, he's undersized for the role that he fulfills in the NBA and yet he's always been routinely productive no matter what the situation has been. Now, I guess as the Pacers learn and as Raptors are learning, do you want a guy that's probably best suited as a, you know, second, third guy off off your bench making twenty three million dollars? No, probably not. That's not the best use of resources as we've come to learn. That being said, he does whole value. Yeah. I know the Lakers have been mentioned and tossed around. Another team that I've seen tossed around or player in particular is Cam Johnson because Cam Johnson shares the same agent as Bruce Brown. So there's some connective tissue there in terms of potential science. That's how everyone makes trades. It's like, do I have the same agent as a guy I might get traded for, obviously. Not even this. I think it goes even further. Apparently, like I didn't get, I didn't go too deep in the weeds on this, but I saw a bunch of different threads emerge over the last few days because this is what all the Raptors Twitter does is like find a way to, to absolutely scam another organization into giving us good assets just like they did last week with Sacramento. Yeah. Great job. Great job. Well done. But because there was some something about, you know, the, the, the Raptors doing a bunch of solids for CAA now that Bruce Brown because they picked up the option and helped them earn this guaranteed money that may be the agent who also represents Cam Johnson would be compelled to help the Raptors sort of facilitate this sign and trade scenario. I just think one of, one of, one, I was, I don't want to, given the free agent market, I wasn't surprised that they picked up the option because it's not like they were going to be spenders in that marketplace. What it did in picking it up prior, the night that on the EVA free agency was it clearly indicated they were kind of set with the roster that they had, they were comfortable. And that includes even if they happen to start the season with Bruce Brown on their team. That's not a guarantee. The best, the best case scenario is they are able to trade him elsewhere and maybe you're getting a draft pick of substance or a young player of substance that you can add into what you're trying to build here and on top of the foundation that already exists. But he certainly is valuable. He absolutely holds value. I guess if you're going and trading with the Lakers, for example, well, what are you trying to get? Like they, they're not, they're not flush with draft picks. They don't have a ton of really attractive young players. Right. So I don't know if they would be the ideal trade partner, partner that I would look at per se because you want a young player, unless you're going to ask for Bronnie. Go for it. I mean, I don't know. Well, then you do the Tim Legler. God, I don't know if you saw his, like to hold the whole thing, the guy hostage. Yeah. I don't know about you guys. I'm a fan of taken movies. Tell them we've got your son and the reaction to the panel was not in taking kind to that joke. And he went, I'm obviously just joking here, guys, that's sorry. You just mentioned that. And that was the, that was actually the single best Brody James take we heard through it, through it all of it. Yeah. The single best one. And then the complete dead fishing from the panel around him, like, that's not funny. That's LeBron's son who joke about him. There were plenty of Celtics, luminaries out there, like, you know, legends of the franchise. Yes. There's such a disdain for the Lakers. I love it. That they came out and said, gosh darn it. I think it was Boston had the 54th pick. Yeah. Yeah. Just take the kid. Yeah. Hold them hostage and ask, we'll give them to you. You want them? Give us Austin Reeves. Yeah. Give us something of a significant value. And you can have your precious Brony James. Otherwise fine. Go play an Australia kid. Let's see. Put the cards on the table. Are you really going to do that? Yeah. The interesting thing with the, with the Bruce Brown is just how, how much is there an appetite in terms of holding on to get the best deal versus to your point about the agent and everything there. Yes. It's funny. Every sport we say this, I'm like, you know, this is the weird thing about trades in this league, right? And the NFL, it's that they don't happen for good players for whatever it seems to be the way it goes about. But in this league specifically, there is, I think that's the more interesting thing is just because honestly, it's as far as an asset goes to your point, it's not nothing. But this isn't something that you're, well, let's hold on. Let's call every team in the league and see who wants to give them. There's such a facilitation that happens like you mentioned, the agent of it all. I think that is the thing that is just so kind of unseemly, I think, to a lot of people about like the NBA, the transactions of it to such an extent, because I hear, I hear you say that. And you know, it's not to say that the Nets wouldn't have reason for wanting that. But it's like, the Nets reason for wanting it is the third or fourth thing we talk about when we're talking about a trade. It's like, well, what would make this agency happy? What would make the two players involved happy and then, hey, if the other team can get even one centil of good out of it, it's just, it's so different than how we would talk about another sports. And I think it's one of the interesting, like, it's why I love covering being a generalist like this, covering all of the sports is that they're all so different. But it's just so jarring that, I mean, we only know who a player's agent is in the NHL when it's time to negotiate a contract, right? Maybe, maybe when free agency pops up, there's something of those guys sharing agency, but really not, it's about, you know, they played team Canada together, they grow up playing some juniors. They know each other. Are they friendly with each other? It's that kind of thing. And in the NBA, the agents are, I mean, arguably bigger power brokers than not all the GMs. Like, I think they're obviously GMs who carry a ton of weight in the league. But if we're just doing the, the old, like most influential people in the NBA, like Rich Paul is what? Oh, he's no, no longer than fifth or something like that. You lay out a really compelling case, I would argue it probably goes players, one, actually, sorry, let's rephrase that. If we include the entire ecosystem, owners, players, agents, general managers, front-office people, that's what it is. That's the hierarchy, which is nuts, but if you, if you actually break it down, it makes a ton of sense in terms of how that operates. Also with Bruce Brown in particular, here Gunner, for the Raptors, they're not going to trade them to, I believe, a crappy team, unless in Oakland's case, they, he is comfortable going there. Right. Right. If he says, yeah, okay, fine. Like, I'll go, I'll play. I'll be able to hopefully establish a pretty solid value of it, handing into another free agency year where I can hit the market. Classic deadline flip, all that. Totally. Otherwise, if he's adamant about saying, well, you know, I want to play for winners. Like, I'm a serial winner in my career, I've played on winning teams and I can contribute to winning, send me somewhere where I can do that, then I think it becomes a little more difficult and this, and the third part of this is like, is there any utility for him on this team? Like he has to show up for camp and he has to start the season with the Raptors. He's too good of a player for you not to play him and to have some role to occupy some kind of actual role on your team. So that's the thing that jumps out most to me is if, and I'm not like saying, I'm like, I disagree with you, but okay, like you're Mr. Serial winner, you have all the winning habits, you have the DNA, you've been around it, you know what a winner smells like when you walk in the locker room. Nicole Yokech. Yeah. Yeah. I hope it smells like horses. I think probably. But you, would you not want that guy or, and like, you've had a little balance with them towards the tail end of the season and this is again, it just goes to the nature of the sport and a player that occupies this position and I don't mean literal position, but like place and hierarchy on a team that's in a place that the Raptors are in. I think most orgs and again, like if we just remove the NBA of it, if you just say it sports team with these parameters around it and say, Oh, I mean, it's a one year deal. You hang on to it and you pay that guy unless someone's going to get dumb about it to be Mr. winner guy and instill the habits and he's a guy who can give you good minutes. And I think that is just again, the thing that if there was ever a time that Raptors are in that spot and you need good vets and all that, I mean, this is God, I feel like you'll know what I'm talking about here is pretty niche NBA, but there's a good to go to agents. I think he's an agent. You might feel like more of a brand new marketing guy, Nate Jones, he works with Dame Lillard. And he's talked about this. The idea that it's just like having an adult on an NBA team does not exist anymore. The heat have had you don his has them is a player coach for, I don't know, the entirety of his NBA career effectively. Sorry, you D, but it's true. Definitely the last five years. Okay. And the idea that Bruce Brown would just be on this team and they pay him buckets of money to be that guy, that seems like the least likely outcome of all of them. And that is kind of crazy to me. And I don't even, I'm not saying it's wrong, but oh, you're, you don't think that's unlikely or you don't think there's value to it. No, I, I see your point. I understand the value in that, but here's where I, I, I, my perspective differs slightly. One, there's, there's one name that I'm going to throw out there that's going to, you know, not Trump church or that, that entire discourse, but it's going to actually resemble the exact sort of scenario that you're laying out. Garrett Temple. Yeah. They actually respect Garrett Temple as a, as their, as their quote, unquote vet, the vet. So he's the guy and they decided to bring, they, they, they think so highly of them that even though he can't play and won't play, they're bringing him back. That's fair. Hopefully in this environment, they need more of a guy like that than they do a Bruce Brown who still is as much as he's got all these really intriguing characteristics and traits that help contribute to winning and building good culture. He still inherently feels like he can play at a high level, that he can contribute in a meaningful way to a team that's actually contending and winning. And so as a result of that, they probably are better off allocating those 20, 25 minutes a game to the younger guys, like, would you rather see Bruce Brown or would you rather see Jacobi Walter, it's, it's pretty much in the same vein because that's what you're looking at here. All right. Would you rather have him Bruce Brown come off the bench and play those 20 minutes or would you rather see maybe extended opportunity for Jacobi Walter, for Davion Mitchell, for Jamal shed at times, like Jonathan Mobo, who they obviously draft 31st overall. This is the direction that they're heading. Their temple temple is going to be a low maintenance veteran guy that understands his role. He's already done it for a year. And that's why I feel like they probably feel like that box is kind of checked already. And they don't need to worry about it that as much. Yeah, I think there is just a difference between a Garrett temple who is there as effectively another coach extension of the staff than a guy like Brown who does give you minutes. And it's one thing to say like, Hey, if I was out there and to say, Hey, when I was out there, two minutes ago, I did XYZ. The other thing, and I don't know what the right answer with this specifically is, but you mentioned Mobo. You mentioned Walter, the guys they take. I don't know that like, do we just want to hand minutes to those guys? Do we want them to have to earn it? Walter, for sure. Are there enough of them that you can say, fight it out amongst yourself? And that's still earning it. That's the only thing that I, I, and again, I'm not, I'm not so hard and fast that I think this is the absolute right thing, but I don't love the idea of, I think if you have young players, you should give them a pathway to opportunity and you should certainly give them an opportunity to show what they have, but I don't think it should be extended if it isn't earned. And again, not to say that you don't have constant check-ins of like, all right, you had a stint at 905. Now you're back. Let's see how this goes. Like it should be a thing where you're constantly trying to build confidence, but I don't think that confidence should come just from being said, Hey, here's your, here's your 12, 13 minutes or whatever it's going to be. And there's very little you could do to ever lose it. Like that's the only way I have about that situation. >> You know what, generally I do agree with you. I felt that way certainly last year with Brady Dick, because it felt like he arrived on the scene and they handed him opportunity versus him actually, not earning it, but it was clear he wasn't ready. >> Mm-hm. >> And he needed to do what ended up happening, which was go away for a little bit, go through this process of playing in the G League, sort of adapting your body to make sure you're prepared for the NBA, come back, and then maybe towards the end as we saw, he was more prepared and there was a readiness to play in the NBA environment. I just, I totally understand the merit, but I still look at a guy like even Kelly Olinik, for example, who's on this roster, and he could provide those same attributes and qualities. >> Another good name. >> Right? Like he's a guy that you talk about great leader historically has always been viewed as a really, really good locker room guy, culture center and all those things. >> For sure. >> He's still gonna be a valuable contributor and play every night for your team and that could be your version of what Bruce Brown provides. >> No, that's- >> I do think cuz there is value to that, having a guy, not like your temple that's just sitting there, but having a player like Bruce Brown who's physically out there and also providing some of those other intangibles off the court. But I just think also the players on this team, the younger guys, those being even quickly and Barrett and Barnes and Grady Dick. >> Yeah. >> They are in a position where they probably want to be able to have that internal competition amongst all these younger players for minutes and say, all right, who's gonna fit to play, who's best to play? And that's where the competition derives from more so than having a veteran guy out there who's trying to set the table for everybody. >> Yeah, that's well said now, honestly, Linnik, he kind of threads the needle a little more perfectly for me and passport matches too. We certainly don't complain about that, all right, Vladie was talking extension. We haven't talked about that yet, so shame on us, we'll get to that next and big, big day, at least could be a big night for Canada soccer at Copa America. It's so big, even I'm excited about it and that really tells you everything you need to know about how much you excited you should be. >> And I can confirm because he's wearing a Canadian hat today, do you know what? This was a last minute lineup change. I have another hat in the car and I saw this one sitting there and I'm like, you know what? These holes are in Texas. Let's go. >> Well done, guys. >> Bad morning show, Contingus Dax on Sportsnet 5.9 of the fan.
