[MUSIC] Obviously, our starters are kind of what we rely on. And we've talked about it for a while, where there's opportunities to step up. And today was a really good example of Nate doing that. And then Trevor throwing again to kind of bridge that gap to Chad. But we're going to need a promoter for Trevor. >> Jason just went all the time. John Schneider, sounds like he knows he's talking about this guy. Look at him, he's got it all figured out. It's amazing how much smarter you sat when your ball club hits a couple over the fence. And then you got not too much, but a little bit of pitching, mostly coming from the bullpen. Nate Pearson, very nice work from him, striking out a bunch in his two innings. Just allowing the one hit. You'll certainly take that. You certainly need it right now, given the state of this pen. So we got nasty Nate, we got big bad Chad at the end. I'm sorry, Trevor Richards, you got gray hair, you're not intimidating. I don't know, you throw like a change up as your toughest pitch. >> He's a silver fox. >> The silver fox. Okay, there we go. We got three great nicknames for the J's pen there. This is a great thing to have for a team right now that quite frankly, like you can't be letting a single game slip away from you. And I don't say that is like the playoffs are apparent when something went, no, that's super sailed. Unfortunately, I know it technically has it, but in my opinion, it has. That's not why I'm talking about it. But you one, you just like, you need to play competitive baseball games still to this point and you certainly saw that last night. And two, you know, we sit here at different times of the calendar and say, well, you know, a team needs this. We've talked about this with the Janssen trade of, you know, how many teams are going to need a catcher at the deadline, if that's the route they feel they need to go, even with Bishette, you know, like a plus position like shortstop, it can be potentially hard to fit it. There has never been a team in the history of baseball that said, now, you know what, our pen is actually perfect and we could not use one more arm. It doesn't matter how good the pen is. It does not matter what you have at your disposal. You always want another arm. You always want another set of bullets. You always want somebody who has maybe a slightly different profile than what your guys offer. So if this is a team that's looking at a selloff and something like that happening, which I think they're going to be looking at, that is as good a thing as you possibly could have seen, like forget the Homer for Horowitz, forget the Homer for Springer, which feels insane to say. That was the biggest thing to take away from last night's game is that maybe those are things other people might want. Yeah, you know what? I really like that point. I think that's a very astute observation on your end. And I couldn't agree more. There are some interesting pieces there now in a perfect world gunner. You'd like to see Romano and you'd like to see Garcia back in there because those are probably your two most valuable trade ships coming out of that bullpen. But I mean, just ask the Blue Jays. They know this better than anybody every year for the last like three years. It's been, all right, we got to hit the market to go find another reliever. They've done it. They know. Every team does it. They never know. And I think Trevor Richards is a guy certainly that holds a ton of value. That's no doubt about it. Richard's a guy in that regard as well and a completely different profile of the player and Chad Green that, you know, again, you would, you would by no means would you want to sit here and say like, it is great that Garcia and Romano aren't available. It's amazing for this team. Wrong. Wrong. They're your two best believers. Relievers. It is not a good thing that they're not there's, but not me. I don't know. There's a lot of believers out there. It's going to take a lot to convince me. Yeah. Seeing is believing for me. Okay. But I think that the thing is that green is a guy that even just the few reps he gets in these safe situations, he's picked up three of them on the year now. That is somebody that with the, with the understanding of what he's done in the past in this league, it doesn't take much to get people to buy in. You've already had the results. You get it. It leveraged situations, especially at the back end of games. It's only going to make him more appealing to other, other teams. Again, J's are hoping they don't find himself in that situation. I think they're going to, but we got about a month to figure that all out. This insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. Very, very pleased to be joined now by Shai Davidi MLB insiders, sports that baseball columnist and Blue Jays reporter, check out his work on sportsnet.ca. Shai, how you doing this morning? I'm all right. How you guys doing? Doing well. Doing well. Blue Jays won a game. They hit a couple over the fence. I mean, honestly, given the state of things. This season, I'd be hard pressed to complain about that. Obviously, George Springer, I shouldn't say obviously to me, he feels like the biggest story, but I kind of want to park that for now, just given the conversation we were having. There's no such thing as a good time to not have your closer and your set up man in Garcia and Romano, but what do you think it does to the value, quite frankly, of Chad Green to have him closing ball games and Richards is obviously forced into slightly higher leverage than he then he did. Do you think it does to their value? And I know that the team is not in a place where they're ready to do the sell off yet, but if it gets to that point, which I think it will, how much does this little stint potentially increase their value or the way they're perceived across baseball? Well, for Chad Green, and I think you were mentioning this just before I joined you guys, but I mean, Chad Green's none known commodity within baseball. And I think for him, it's all about, is he healthy and is he fully recovered from that Tommy John and he stuff continues to be there and you see the pitch ability last night, the ability to get out of a significant jam there in the top of the ninth with the leadoff double and striking out two guys and then inducing some not dangerous contact from Jose Altuve to end the game. So I think for him, it's just about reinforcing that the arm is back and the recovery is there and he's able to take the ball as often as a play off contending team needs a leverage reliever to take the ball. With Trevor Richards, you know, I think seeing him back in leverage can maybe create a bit more comfort for teams, but he's also the type of Swiss army knife pitcher that every club loves to have, right? You need someone to give you some length. He can do that. You need someone to go through a run of lefties at some point. That's a right-hander that can do that. You need someone who could give you a leverage spot and get some key outs later in the ball game. He can do that. And he's been showing that for a couple seasons now with the Blue Jays. He's got the ability to get some swing and miss with that change up. It's really an elite pitch and he continues to demonstrate that on a regular basis. So yeah, there's absolutely value in both those guys for contending clubs. There's some other circumstances around there. Chad Green's got another year left that I believe it's 10 or 10 and a half. So that's a pretty sizable financial commitment that some teams may or may not want to take. But with Trevor Richards, I mean, that's just the type of bullpen arm that every contending team is looking to add at this time here. Yeah, there's value there for sure. And whether you go to a contending team and it knocks you down a peg potentially in terms of your leverage role, still that is a valuable, valuable arm to have in a bullpen for a team that has higher aspirations of making a long postseason run. I did want to stick shy with the bullpen for a second and I wanted to key in on Mr. Big Nate Pearson, who had obviously a very, very strong outing yesterday, very positive performance from him and his two innings of work. I feel with Nate Chai, it just depends what day of the week you catch him because he feels like the ultimate science experiment. There are days where he looks almost unhittable as we saw last night, where he sat down six of the seven batters that he faced. And then there are instances where it feels like he can't be placed anywhere near leverage because he can't command pitches consistently and doesn't have control of the strike zone. What it needs to happen with Nate Pearson in order for him to sort of achieve these type of results more consistently because I think consistency is really his biggest problem. Yeah, I mean, that's a fair point and you're right. There are times this year where he looks absolutely untouchable. And I think back to in April, that outing that he had against the Rockies where he just absolutely overwhelmed them and you're like, okay, that is what everybody's been waiting to see. I think he touched 102 in that game and this stuff was beyond electric. But then there are other times where, like you said, you know, he can't find his own, he's falling behind, you know, the breaking ball is inviting and it's why hasn't this come together. The Blue Jays have been at this for a few years with him in trying to figure it out. They've gotten to a point where, you know, if you run up health injuries that he had to endure or aren't a problem and he's able to stay on the field right now and get on the mound and give you those innings. So that's obviously an important progression. But there are some pieces in terms of consistency of delivery, consistency of approach, methodology of attacking that the Blue Jays are still trying to, and he's still trying to really lock down. And so we talked a lot about the time missed and how much that impacted his pitching in some ways. He's still learning a little bit on the fly and he needs some runway with that. And I don't think that's unfair to say about him that he does need a bit more time to put all these pieces together and that you think with all that stuff at some point would. But yeah, it's when you just look at the package, you know, how physically imposing he is, how incredible the stuff is, it's impossible to also not think why isn't this as awesome as it looks like it should be on a regular basis. Yeah, say it can be a frustrating thing that you see a night like last night and you do wonder if there's, if there's more of that lurking, something that I'm sure he thought was lurking inside of him, although I certainly doubted it was this, this stretch from George Springer sitting 507 game hitting streak. It's another bomb last night. They dropped him in the lineup and it wasn't an immediate flip of the switch, but it did kind of precede him taking off here. Can you see a world where they start moving them up in the lineup? I mean, batting order can be such a precarious thing. It's not that it matters, it's not that it doesn't matter at all. But you know, sometimes guys are creatures of habit. We know that was certainly the case with him. We know how much he loves batting lead off. Can you see the team moving him back up there sometime soon or do you think they just kind of keep him where he is in the lineup and let him keep hitting this way? Well, it was interesting, it was trying to think about when this was maybe two, three weeks ago. Yeah, it was Ben and I yelling at you about it going, why is he batting lead off? How dare they? Yeah, that was hard. I mean, you guys have often yelled at me about a variety of different things. I'll be honest, I don't get that worked up. Ben does most of the yelling regarding the J's. So yeah, but we have. You're right. Yeah, public service reminder that I am not in that front office, but the, I think there was, John Shiner was talking about, we're talking about the lineup and the different permutations and he said that, look, the ultimate goal is to get back to, you know, spring or one, bishette to a variety three, turn or four and that original vision of what this was supposed to be and that is something that they wanted, had been working towards essentially, but to, you know, moving guys down to try to get them right, to try to get them hot, but, you know, they wanted to go back to the original plan. And so is that imminent, you know, he had said at that point too that it's not like a clear thing. It's not one game or not one week and you say, okay, now it's good. It's just a steal for what's working or what's not and what do you want to accomplish there. I will say, and I've felt this way various times during spring or spring here is that I do like him in that four or five area in an RBI spot because, you know, obviously you'd like the way he sets a table and the way that he's a threat right at the start of a game. But, you know, for a team, especially since the Teosco Hernandez and Lotus Goryel trades, that has lacked that depth middle of the order slugger to help protect, bow, and flatty, that's something that's been missing and he can provide that. And so we've seen him in that spot in the lineup in recent, in the recent week we can have and the damage that he can do there and the impact that that can have when he's able to hit those three run homers that have really been a missing element of this team. And the part of me that's, I kind of like that there and it seems to work, especially with what the team has right now, you know, part of that too is, you know, Boba Shett getting being as productive at the top of the lineup the way that he can be. You know, I think we're all we are well in agreement that that's coming at some point. It has to be because he's just to get a player to continue hitting the way that he has so far this season. And that can help at work if you got, you know, both setting the table there, Spencer Horwitz is really working in the two spot right now, getting on base a ton. You know, Isaiah Kinefalefa up there as a table setter too was good, but, you know, he's going to be gone for a month, month and half, so that's off the table. And so the way things are set up right now that maybe this, this is the way the lineup works and, you know, Springer in the middle of the order, there's, there's some merit to that. I am so glad, Shai, that you made that point because you articulated exactly what my thought process is. And Gunner and I touched on this a little bit earlier and I said, I think George Springer's best fit in lineup is probably in that middle third of your order because he's, I just said, this stage of his career, I feel like if you tell him George, try and do as much damage as you possibly can. Step in there and try and be, just be aggressive, be a guy that's not looking to just get on base and set the table, like we know he's got that aggression in his approach. That's innate to him. It's always been innate to him and how he steps in the box. But I feel like that is best served out of mentality, sitting behind the likes of Vlad and Bo or just in that middle third of your lineup. So I'm so glad you referenced that. You also mentioned part of the reason why we see Springer not being in the lead off spot is Bo's currently occupying that place, but he's been struggling mightily. And you know, I'm with you and I think the general consensus is, hey, he's too good of a player to be this version of himself for a substantial amount of time here. It is July. And I guess what are you seeing when you watch Bo, like what are the biggest indicators of when he's going well versus when he's going poorly? Well, to me, this has been a super weird season for, for Bo, right? Because there are times where you're like, okay, he's right on the verge of taking off. He's right on the verge of taking off. And then it doesn't happen. And I think he'd be, he'd say something similar in terms of he's felt like he's on the verge of taking off all season. And for some reason, it just isn't there. And since he's come off the interview list, he said a ton of balls hard. He's had some good games, been having mostly good at bats. And again, like the results haven't been there quite in the way as you would have expect them to. And some of that is, okay, give it some good hesitations and have it come around. And, you know, he did miss the time. He did have a calf issue and, you know, obviously your legs are super important when you're hitting. And he's a guy who has a lot of torque all over his body the way that he swings. And so it's reasonable to think that there's some physical thing that he was working through before he hit the I.L. But look, I don't think it's this snap of a finger thing. Like if it was an easy answer, somebody would have answered it a while ago. And he's, he's really just been having one of those years. But I think back to 22, where we were having the same conversation about bow throughout the first four months of the season and August and September, he was out of his mind and he essentially dragged the bludges to the playoffs that year. So, you know, maybe this is a season like that and that's what's coming. But that's also the upside in bow and why the bludges are really looking at that and saying, okay, let's put him in a spot where we can get him going and lead off spots a good place for him. It's a spot in the lineup that he likes hitting. And maybe, maybe this is the final ingredient that pulls it all together. Let's hope. I certainly would like to see some knocks from him and so would he, so would you. So would you, even though you're not in the front office, as you smartly pointed out to us, uh, shy, always love getting you on. Thanks so much for jumping on with us this morning. A problem. Have a great morning, fellas. There he goes. Shydeviti, this insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you could expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus dot com. I, I, okay. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. I did. There's a lot of juicy stuff there. Uh, okay. I think just on the bow front, uh, I do agree with Shydeviti assessment that at times it has felt like, okay, he's just, he's right there. He's on the cusp of really hitting his stride and looking like the old bow, the bow that we all know and love. And I love, I love, uh, last week I was part of my commentary above Vlad was this is the Vlad. We all know in love. This is it. Finally. I feel like we've had. We're, we feel like it, both been close and I think you're starting to see you have seen. This is where there are some positives. The app. That's look better. Yep. They definitely look better. Now it's about taking advantage of pitches that are hitable Vlad suffered through this for not, for I think a more prolonged stretch than bow has ever where you see, okay, he, he will work the app back in a favorable manner to get in leverage counts, but then what's failing to do damage on the pitches that you're supposed to take advantage of the fast balls down the middle of the plate, the hanging, breaking balls and bows in that same spot right now. So maybe it is a matter of timing. I think the most encouraging part, actually quite frankly, is seeing both stick to the, the approach that he's historically had throughout his career in any time he gets to two strikes, he changes how he approaches the app bad. If he was not doing that, and he was just now swinging at everything and looking visibly, visibly uncomfortable up there, I think I'd be more concerned. I do think there are some decent signs there, although, you know, again, it's so high, you got to start producing at some point. You can't be three for 20 over a five game span every two weeks at a certain point. You got to start piecing together a string together games where you've got as bloody, we saw multi hit games and you're starting to get on base consistently. I just, I think that is interesting. And the other piece that this got me sort of thinking about a tad in all of this is just when it comes to where like these guys that we've seen come up this year in particular, your horror witches, your bargers, you know, Leo Jimenez is now here and I'm curious actually to see what he can do. I hope he has an opportunity to at least get out there certainly more than a Ralphus Martinez did. Although we know, of course, a Ralphus in any way, it's hard when you get handed in any game suspension. To say, please keep his name out of your mouth when you're discussing but but I I do wonder what the ripple effect is in terms of how the alignment of this team looks going forward. I will say the one thing I really like about the pieces that we've seen now recalled and elevated to the major leagues is it feels like this roster is a lot more pliable and malleable than what it was when the season began. And I think that actually plays into the hand of how we can frame and evaluate John Schneider as a manager. We now at least at this point Gunner. Yep. A, the team is more watchable and they're more fun than they were for the first two plus months of the year. And I think a third key thing here is okay, we can actually evaluate the manager in a different way because the roster is not filled with positional redundancies left, right and center. There are guys that you can fit into different spots. And now the onus is on him to find the best alignment and combination that can work, obviously within the margins of whatever your talent is on this roster. No, I actually think that's a very good point. Like I, you know, it's become a hobby horse for me. But like I've gotten sick and tired of John Schneider talking about this team, but part of it is what there's no moves to make. It's like, okay, I will do a which aged guy would you like to be DH today and which one would you like to play first? But that's not the case anymore. You got Horowitz in the mix and you know, Vlad, they seem to move around a little less, but you're still in the cards. You could do that there. You have Varshal and center field and all these other pieces. I agree with you. I think the last thing I'll say on the bow of it all is I'm the other reason why it feels different with Vlad is that and the struggles are different. Like I don't want to make them out that they're the exact same, but with Vlad, he could hit and you go, okay, that doesn't count. Hit a home run. We don't, we're not going to do that without any single man. There's no world where, I mean, maybe if we, if he starts to hit, then we can get to that point. But he's not a guy you expect to have 35 home or pop or anything along those lines. So if he can just start hitting that success right in and of itself there, unlike with Vlad, where there's another level, you kind of need to see him get to obviously, you just got to let him get him hitting first before you can worry about any of that other stuff. But I think that's the other reason why it's so odd that he struggled this way because at least with Vlad, like again, there have been times the struggles were all encompassing, but there have also been times where we go, yeah, he's struggling, not really, but not enough homers. So that is still struggling. We're not going to do that with Bo. We're just not. So you think that the biggest difference in sort of the, the narrative and the discourse surrounding Bo struggling in comparison to Vlad struggling is that when Vlad struggles, he's still able to go one for four with a single or two for four with two singles every now and again, whereas Bo, it feels like it's all or nothing. Well, and I also feel like the difference is is that with Bo, I mean, one, the track record is allowed him to get to this place, but that with Bo, there's a little more wiggle room of acceptable outcomes for people. It was Vlad and Bo. Yes, but it was Vlad and Bo that there was a lot of wiggle room of what is an successful Boboshette career look like there are people and we've done a good job, I think, of explaining this to them that we're going, I'm sorry, like walking into Cooperstown or it's bad career for Vlad. And it's like, well, there's a lot of room between a good career and that. And I think that that's the other part of it. The changes perception. So much. And if I can, that actually speaks to maybe more of a front office, totally issue than it is the player issue, totally the fact that we are sitting here and we need to view Vlad and Bo, I throw Bo in this, yep, through the same lens of saying, you need to be the generational hitter. Yep. That is not necessarily an indictment on them. No, it should be more of an indictment on the front office because they're both, you know, and I know both struggling for the time, inky really is very much, but they are good players. You know that that needs to be the caveat anytime we have that conversation about, well, you know, your best guys need to lead you. Okay, that's fair, but they don't have him. We saw this yesterday. They don't have your down over as who is a transformational offensive run producing middle of the order back. They don't have that. If that guy was in your lineup and you had Bo and Vlad, imagine those three, you'd be having the tune of this story would be completely different, completely different. They don't have that. I was about to stay in and walking through that door. He's not exactly not even going to throw his bathroom. No, we won't do that. He might take BP occasionally, maybe, yeah, but don't ask too many questions. Okay. Born and raised festival returns to Montabello Park in St. Catharines on July 5th and 6th, and we have passed it to give away for the two day event to see city and color and Alexis on fire to enter listen, daily to the fan morning show for the code word, then text the code word to 59590 today's code word is city and color. That's right. The word city and color to 59590 for your chance to win today is the last day we're giving away it passes. But if you don't win with us, tickets are on sale at live nation.com. Oh, back to hockey talk. Luke Fox is going to join us next. We haven't even talked about this headman deal talked a lot about Sam coach yesterday, the headman deal sneaking out right as we wrap up the show. What does that mean for Tampa and will a team in the Atlantic ever get worse other than the leaf surges, everyone just improved year over year for all of eternity until forever. We'll ask Luke Fox next when we continue fan morning show on Sportsnet five nine of the fan in depth blue jays coverage with an analytical twist jays talk plus with Blake Murphy be sure to subscribe and download jays talk on apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning show here. Brank gunning. Danieli Franceschi along with me. Good musical selection. Sam man. Yeah, I do love me some city and color, but I really love it when gourd down he hops on a track with them. Oh my God. Yeah, love that. Love that. Love that sleeping sickness for those of you on the podcast who don't get the music and that's why you have to get up early in the morning with us. Okay, you do. I don't. Well, I was about to say I don't make the rules. I actually don't make that rule. But I've been forcing it. You want a music you get up with us somebody who I believe is up now unless Jeff has parties just still yacking away on the phone with them. No, he is up. Okay. Luke Fox joining us now. Luke. How you doing? Summer is is upon us, especially for you hockey people. You're so close. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing a lot better. The news has calmed down the plane rides have stopped, introduced myself to my son again. Yeah, I was going to I was going to say, what was it like for your family? During the you were, in fact, a person and not like a hologram on FaceTime or something. I'm sure that was nice. Yeah, well, basically all of June I was gone because that the Panthers and Oilers decide to go seven and NHL decided to jam the draft right up against right from the shredded ice of the Stanley Cup getting awarded to the 42 degree heat of Vegas. But I love it like it goes by fast because it's so newsy and the hockey was so good in the playoffs. So, but I am pretty excited to, you know, try and get my golf game in order. Yeah. At a point barbecue. Yeah, covered all the bases, barbecue and golf summer is on in the Fox household. Okay, before we get to into any of the particulars, just I'll give you kind of first blush reaction and won't lead the witness. Would you make of the Leafs day or a couple of days here since since all the chips started falling? Obviously, you know, don't be sticking around. Mitch Barnard's still here. Tyler Bertuzzi not. Would you make of how different the team looks or not different the team looks from a couple of days ago? Well, not different up front. I think, I think considering the circumstances when circumstances is no move clauses for everybody, I think Brad's living did a pretty good job of accomplishing his number one goal. He said before free agency that he wanted to remold the blue line, you know, in order to do that in free agency, he said he tried trades, nothing there to his liking. So you're going to pay and you're going to pay in terms. So yeah, it's Chris Tan has been a play all six years, be effective for all six years. No, exactly Marston going to be effective in year four, maybe even three of this deal. Probably not, but this is a team that wants to still be competitive, try and win while Austin and Mitch and Willie and Morgan are all in their prime. So in order to do that, I think the decor heading into this fall compared to last fall, I think is a lot better and a lot deeper. So to that end, with the budget he had, you know, I think he did okay, am I a fan of running it back? No, but I think his hands were tied a little bit here and also the summer's not over. I would remind people that the Matthew Kachuk trade happened right in the middle of summer. So this isn't necessarily the finished product. So we'll see what else he has up his sleeve. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think it is worth remembering that obviously a couple of years ago when that trade occurred, it was later on in the, in the offseason proceedings, Luke, you mentioned the forward group and it feels like if we're looking at areas of this team in which there's still room to make changes and that's independent of Mitch Marner. That feels like upfront, there is still an opportunity potentially add and tweak in terms of what the middle six or bottom six might look like for this group is that sort of where your attention is fixated and focused right now is how they go about whether it's spending the remaining cap money that they do have, which isn't a ton or potentially entertaining trades that they want to probably find a way to add another forward into the mix before the offseason is done and dusted for this front office. 100% and we talked to Trey living after the madness of July one shook out. He said that he still wanted to add a forward he was, you know, upfront about that part of the pond. So the left side, it's got to be, to me, it's got to be a left winger unless you can find a three C that tends to bump domain to the wing. So I think you're looking at a three C or a left wing because you lost for Tuesday and I think for Tuesday is going to be missed. I actually thought, you know, of course, it took them a while to get going, took them a while to find his niche. Once he got some power plate time, once he got some confidence by scoring some goals in the second half of the season, I actually thought he was quite an effective player for them in the playoffs. So I think he's going to look, you know, you look at the left side, you got Matt Nye's on the, on the, maybe up top, or you got Bobby McMahon probably higher than he should be. Don't, don't mean you can move up there, but then you need it, but then you're, you're heard at center, so you're, what do you, you're hoping Pontus Holmberg can place some more center or you're hoping Fraser Minton is all of a sudden, the three C, I don't think so. Um, you know, talking to people, I think they really want them to have a full year in the AHL and develop and that's the, and I think that would be Tre Living's preference. So I think they'll poke around, you know, you, you see a guy like Adam Henry, Rick stick and Edmonton for, you know, not very much money, you're like, man, the least could use a guy like that. Right. Yeah. But, uh, you know, I, I think there's room to move and if you, hey, if you don't find it now, you can find it by the deadline. Yeah. There's certainly an element to that and I think Domi is, he complicates it because I don't think there's a, I mean, if you play him with Austin Matthews, that is as close to a perfect fit for him, but I also don't know that that is the perfect line. If you have it with Marner on the other side of things and Domi, the, the question I have about him is, do you think does Craig Baroube being the head coach now as opposed to Sheldon Keith, make you think it's more or less likely he plays more or less center? Because I think with Domi, again, it's weird in that the best hockey I think he played was on Matthews left wing there being a set up man. But I think the thing that allowed him to play that hockey was the stretch at center. He played that immediately preceded it that seemed to get him reengaged or find a new goal. What do you think ultimately, and the answer to this is he'll do a little bit of both. I'm aware of that. What do you think ultimately is their kind of preference or with Baroube in the mix where they start with Domi? Do you think? Uh, yeah. I mean, it's a good question, but really it is. He's going to move around. It's 82 games. It's going to move around the lineup. I, I think he's best as a winger and I think you need a more defensively responsible two way center to be your three seat, but the Leafs like most teams aren't constructed perfectly. So you're constantly patching holes. Uh, I think Brube is, the other thing is, Brube is just getting to know this group. Totally. So he might try some different things. What I would imagine happening is there's going to be less of a divide. I mean, you still got superstars and second tier forwards, but I would imagine there's going to be less of a divide in terms of ice time between the top six and bottom six. That's not really the way Brube likes the coach. He likes to make every single person feel like they're important, feel like they have a role. Uh, I think he wants to crush the, as much as he can, the, the ego or the hierarchy, the internal hierarchy of a team. That's going to be a challenge. And I think that, but one way to do that is through ice time. So maybe, you know, he's coming at it with fresh eyes. Maybe we see a different lineup, you know, maybe whatever keep was doing gets crumpled up and thrown out and, and we see something fresh here. Yeah, it's, it's entirely possible. So a couple of things there. You talk about like crushing the hierarchy a little bit. You also mentioned Adam Henryk's deal and I think those two things tied to one person for me and it's John Tavares, uh, the future of him with the team. I mean, we've had a lot of conversation about Marner. He has got one year left on his deal. I mean, the idea of a Tavares trade seems to seem to have stopped immediately following the season and it's like, I understand that actually. So where do you think the team is at with him? Cause I saw that head reek deal and I said, God, the least probably die in a give John Tavares. Something like that. A year from now, what do you think his future is? I mean, there's been talk about the stripping of the sea can, can a guy lose a sea and he's not stripped of it? Can he hand it off? Like how, how do you think the conversations surrounding Tavares are going to kind of evolve as we head towards camp here? Yeah, it is interesting. And, um, yeah, I saw that Nick Kiproos quoted at that idea that maybe they're considering that behind the scenes, you got one more year left on a deal. Do you want to embarrass a guy like that? Now I think publicly, I think you would put on whatever's best for the team base. Um, you know, every time we talk to him, he already kind of defers to Matthews as being the best player on the team, our leader, like, I don't think he is, uh, you know, confused and thinking that he's the number one guy anymore. But I also think he's very proud of having that letter on his sweater and he takes it seriously. He's already training for next season. I think he's going to, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a better season this year than he did last year, despite the age, because, and there's, there's two things. I mean, one, his work ethic has already been there, but I, I think he knows he's heading into a contract year. He's tight with Stan Coase. He would stand coast in his contract here, you know, it's, and I don't think it's sticking it to the team or, or the world. I think it's, I think these are just really proud athletes that want to say, I still have it. I'm going to show everyone I still have it. And, and not that he needs the money, but there's a, there's a pride factor. And this is his life. He's, he's a hockey player. So that's number one. And number two, I, I really believe in a, and he's probably a long shot, but I believe he wants to make team Canada. I think he would like to play in the foreign nation's face off. He, he was the captain of the national team over at World's, obviously that's a smaller pool. You're not drawing from most of the playoff teams, but this is a guy that wants to represent his country. He takes it seriously. So I think we're going to see a very motivated John Tavares, and that's not a bad thing for the least. Luke, I, I think you're, you're spot on there. I do find it interesting, you know, the parallel there between Stephen Stamps Coast and potentially John Tavares. I think the key is with those guys, if anything, they want to put it, they want to make sure they put the ball in the court of the team versus the team being in a favorable position that they can say, Hey, you know what, yeah, the, the, the diminishing returns here. We're just going to be able to part ways amicably and that's that. So I feel like even, obviously, look at the Stamps Coast situation, like loyalty was tested there deeply and it didn't work out. So I do think John Tavares will be motivated to perform at a high level for a variety of different reasons. You mentioned something there in regards to Austin Matthews, and I don't want to bring this all the way back to Mitch Marner, but I do think it's an interesting question in all of this, which is how much influences Austin Matthews have in potentially what happens with number 16, a guy that he's been linked to throughout his entire tenure with this hockey club. They have a great relationship. They've shared a line together for many, many years. I do wonder, and I don't know that this has been discussed in abundance, but what level of influence Austin Matthews might have in any discussion that pertains to the future of Mitch Marner here in Toronto. Well, I'm sure that when the players do their exit meetings, there's probably some honest conversations. What do you think of this teammate? What do you think of him? What do you think of him? You think they ask him to rank him in a list and then they put it out on the town square, do you think? Or do you probably not? But what I would say is it didn't hurt Max Domi's case returning the fact that Austin Matthews has on ice chemistry with them and off ice chemistry with them. For sure. They sit together at the back of the plane, they hang out, they're close, they spend some time in Arizona together, it doesn't hurt. Ultimately, it's GM's decision and there's got to be budget for it and all that, but I think if conversely, say there was a teammate, everyone thought it was a bad teammate and it was a UFA, probably not coming back. That certainly wasn't the case with Tyler Bertuzzi, I think they would have had him back at a good rate. It's just, hey, go get your money for sure, apparently he wants to play for every original 16, not for the model already, so go get your term, go get your money, but I do think it's a factor. Is it the end factor? No, but if Austin said, guys, I really think me and Mitch can do it. You see what we can do together, I'd love them to stay. It means something. Well, it does make me think of this and not to use a cross-poor comparison, but look at how much work was needed to mend relationships between the Raptors and Kyle Lowry when they traded to Marty Rosen. It's not quite the same thing, but you're talking about in the same vein, guys that have been marquee representatives of this franchise for a prolonged period of time, and we know Matthew's obviously he's in a different tier and he is the face of the team, but clearly, if there is an instance where that conversation occurs and he says, hey, no, I really like Mitch and I'd like to play with him. I do think that holds probably a fair amount of weight considering we've seen it here in the city where that takes time to mend those fences and get back on the same road together after going through a pretty difficult divorce. It happened with the Raptors, and I just thought that might be an interesting comparison here in terms of what could happen, let's say the Leafs hypothetically go and make this move and do it independent of the Austin Matthews, and there isn't a mutual desire there or an understanding that this is the way that they wish to continue. Yeah, and then, hey, it's not specific to Toronto. The same thing's happening in Edmonton. Leon Dreyse said I was in the same position, Mitch Marner is, and Conor McDavid and Leon are tight, tight, tight. They're close and Leon's future is going to affect Conor's future and vice versa. I'm sure they've talked at length behind the scenes about what their plan is. And so, yeah, all of it matters. And those guys talk to each other, the coaches and GMs have a very good idea of where everyone stands and what the relationships that we don't see are like. So for sure, that's a factor. Last one before we let you go, Luke, and again, thanks for taking the time as you are just dying to get your barbecue and golf game tight, tight, tight, tight. Almost as tight as McDavid and Dreyseil maybe. Do you mention the, you know, effects of one player on another? Why do the Tampa Bay Lightning love Victor Hebbman more than they love Steven Stampos? They wouldn't give them that money, but they give it to Hebbman. I mean, I understand it. I think part of it is just defense are hard to find them forwards, maybe, but geez, from a public perception standpoint, that is as naked a choice as I can ever remember an organization making. Harsh. Harsh. Yeah, we're seeing a couple teams go that way where they're putting their business ahead of their loyalty to franchise players. And you know, Vegas has been doing it for a while and it hurts. And Stampos had that great line. It's like, you know, you're trying to hang on to, you want something that doesn't want you back, you know, and I think there's, I'm, hopefully I'm not the only listener that has been through a relationship like that. It's good to say we've all been there. Yeah. But it hurts, but the quicker you get over it and realize, you know, maybe I should lose to my grip here, they don't want me back, then everyone's better off. And honestly, guys, I think the predators are going to be a force because Marcheso, he's going to have a chip on his shoulder. Stampos is going to have a chip on his shoulder. No one's talking about the Brady Shea edition. He's a really good two-way defenseman that can help their offense. And they already got Yoshi, who's an amazing two-way defenseman. And I think they have, you know, top 10, top five goalie and sorrows right up now. So they're going to be a really interesting team, super competitive division, the central, but all of a sudden, you know, those contracts may not age well. But next year, that team should be a force. And it's like, finally, someone who can score a goal in Nashville, they've always been this defensive team that wants to win two, one, three, two, they might be able to score some goals now. Yeah. It's going to be remarkable. And honestly, it's like, you know me, in my opinion, on these southern teams, it's like, they might even have me cheering for them if it's just shove it to you and shove it to you, Vegas and shove it to you, Tampa. Yeah. What a compelling story. Luke, thanks so much for jumping on. I've enjoyed all the chats all year long now. Go enjoy some summer, pal. All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Luke. There he goes. Luke Fox, Leafs NHL reporter for Sportsnet now back with his family. We have finally given Luke Fox back to his family. Yeah. Well, I mean, like free. He's, you know, sure, his family's putting him to work. He's like, freedom, he's like, yeah, got the list right here, waving the list. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, buddy, don't I know about a list. Tell me about it. Okay. Interesting stuff with the Stamco's thing that is going to be, that's a new poster child for you have to make hard decisions in the sport and be really interested to see how the bolts go from here. I don't think that Hedman deal is going to age terribly by any means, but I mean, this guy's already been banged up several times. Yeah. It's entirely possible Tampa made the wrong decision there and how's that going to play out if you shoved Mr. Lightning overboard to keep a guy who is also beloved, but not Mr. Lightning. Totally. That's what pops into my mind right away is are we sure the aging curve is a little bit easier on Victor Hedman than it is for Stephen Stamco's like, what in it logically makes sense that the aging curve might be harsher on defenseman than it is for fours and a guy that can still occasionally score some goals and it doesn't feel like stamp goes who's just finished scoring 40 in a regular season is going to all of a sudden fall off a dramatic clip. Yeah. Like, I just, I'm with you. I think that's a very, very curious one and it was funny. It is almost very symbolic that the deal was identical four years, 32 million, just what a choice. They made it. Hey, they liked about choices. They certainly made theirs. We'll see how it plays out for them. Blue Jays back at it tonight, Kuchit getting the ball against the Astros will see how that one shakes out. However, it does. We'll be back tomorrow. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. of the game. (upbeat music) You
