[MUSIC] I think it's the ramble on here, but I do want to touch base just off the top on some way or something. It's obviously getting maxed back. It was a priority, we're excited to get maxed on versus a top player. Competitive kit, we all know Max, he wears his heart in the snow, getting Joe to all done. And extending him, you know, we got a lot of faith in Joe. And we think we're going to have a real good career in front of him. And a real good important season in front of him. So that was a priority for us to see if we can get ahead of that. And then adding Anthony Stolars, Stanley Cup Champion now. You know, the goal training will work itself out. You know, that is Matt Murray as well, obviously Matt coming off. And last year with the trouble hip surgery, we wanted to end up in a position. And we certainly don't forget to go down to some of these young developers involved in this. So you've got a couple other things to learn out, that you have to be just in the hot dirt. In terms of some gut science, you know, we'll look to find like some of the coming in there, coming out. I think that's a good idea. Brad, you actually missed the leader in that. Oh, sorry, Jim, it's the yes, he was going to do that when he started going to have one on. The dulcet tones of Brad tri-living, Toronto Maple Leafs general manager. And now, now like in earnest, right? Last year, got a trade, it's like the car was already, I don't know how it was running without the keys in it. But the car was running and they're like, hey, tree, good luck. They threw it to him and he had to jump in and he's like, it's a manual. Oh my God, I got to get the clutch going now. Now he understands he's had a full year, he's had control of the car. He knows what he's doing. And I certainly started to put a stamp on the Toronto Maple Leafs. I was just going to add he was a passenger in a self-driving car. That's what he was last year. Now he's actually sitting in the driver's seat. He's like making suggestions to the car. He's like, what about? Hear me out, John Klingberg, and the car's like, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew. Now he's got hands on the wheel. Very, very much so. Yeah, tactical, you can feel the buttons, no touch screen business for future living. And I do feel like a Brad your living built a car like as few touch screens as possible for him. Oh, it's cool. Yeah. Meat potatoes. That's not a way you build a car. It's good. Good. Exactly. Make it heavier. That's probably what he says. What is blue line to be perfectly honest, both in terms of literal weight and just the way they play. Obviously, they did a ton to augment the blue line, TANF, the big move, OEL, a relatively big move. Timothy Lillegrine is the guy that I think people are looking at this wondering how he kind of fits our producer as a party have alerted me to this that there was a moment. It might have been right after that answer he gave where he went. Did I leave anybody out? They went, yeah, you did. Timothy Lillegrine might have been a Freudian slip there just might have been in that look, this is a player who struggled to get in the Leafs lineup. I think there have been times where you look at him as the, okay, maybe there's a role for him as the power play quarterback here, but that's never really taken a hold. Obviously OEL is going to get some of that opportunity now. So this to me feels like a classic deal that you don't have to move, but probably gets moved at some point in time in my opinion. Yes, I would agree. I think part of this and what factors into the equation to sign him to a new deal, as opposed to say dragging this out, is he's probably getting a similar value in the arbitration process anyway, so better to have some level of conclusion here and resolution before you have to go through this prolonged process. And it gives you clarity as to what you can possibly do and how he factors in it is interesting. He's a guy that's in his mid 20s. He's now on his second bridge deal effectively has been scratched gunner at least once every post season that he's participated in. So he's never really had a stronghold or a firm grip on a on a position on the back end, and they've clearly added a bunch of guys. So it kind of feels like unless he comes out and is still on this roster and unless he comes out and completely blows everyone away with tapping into a whole new element of his game, we're probably looking at a similar situation here, but it felt like from both sides, this probably made the most sense like it kind of did. Yeah, certainly certainly did for at this point in time as well. A biggest piece that's no longer leaf probably Tyler Bertuzzi. I say this is somebody who enjoyed his time here, but I don't feel like they're missing a whole lot there. This is a guy who needs power play time to perform and he just didn't get a ton of it. Yeah. It'd be interesting to know how much of that he would have got with a potentially different looking power play with Marks of Art kind of at the helm of it all now. But yeah, that was that's a guy who I look at and that feels like the biggest piece that's going to make the team kind of feel not not obviously, you know, you add TANF that's going to make the team feel different from from a lost standpoint that's that feels like the biggest one. And we were staring down a barrel of a Mitch Marner trade and you know, who knows what that what ripples that would have kind of led to. It is interesting that it feels like maybe the only piece of consequence they're going to lose from last year is Bert. Yeah, you know, I had fully considered that that is a good point. And even even then it felt like there was an appetite on both sides to potentially revisit and get something done. Now again, he gets, he gets handed a big paycheck and okay, there's only so much you can do there. That's why. But yeah, you're right. You're right. They've added more than they've had to subtract. Yeah, they certainly have time now to bring in our insider and this insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. Joining us now, a man who was very busy yesterday, I imagine it'll be relatively busy today. And then like all hockey insiders, he tries to be as unbusy as possible. After that, Frank Seravelli joining us now, hockey insider, a president of hockey content, a daily face off host of the DFO rundown podcast as well as frankly speaking, Frank, how you doing? Have you caught, have you caught a wink asleep? Have you been able to exhale after a rock as first day of free agency? I did actually. Last night was the first night of normal sleep that I've had in at least six weeks. So it was actually pretty good. Yeah, I can only imagine I say this all the time. I don't know if this is a chicken or the egg thing, I don't know if I need to be thanking the general managers or if I need to be thanking the insiders for exerting pressure on them. But everybody getting their business done as soon as humanly possible and then running to the closest body of water they could find in the summer is my favorite NHL tradition. I just love how much this stuff, there's always guys who linger, but I just love how we tend to take care of the big news right out of the gate. This year in particular is different than any other. I can tell you just from sheer math. So I did my top 75 yesterday, 66 players are gone, like in the 40s, all 20, all of the top 20 were gone in like the first two hours and and look, they weren't gone in the first two hours. They were gone in the first seven minutes, like these deals were done five weeks ago. So it was certainly different in that sense if you like, I can only tell that people started to get some teams started to get a little nervous that hadn't gotten business done ahead of time, which, you know, I guess if everybody's tampering, then no one is tampering ahead of time, that's breaking the rules, Frank, that couldn't couldn't be. But like I just said, if everyone's tampering, then no one is tampering. But I can tell you that I got a call from an agent maybe two hours before free agency and it was someone trying to get a deal done and they said, well, we, you know, we'd like to talk and they're like, ah, not available. And the GM was like, what do you mean not available? And he's like, so everyone started to freak out and they were like, well, what's happening here? It's clearly mad and there was a bunch of nerves like, well, is this, is this the point in time where this is going to blow up? And it was like, hey, if you didn't get your business done weeks ago, like that's on you. Okay. So Frank, how do they govern this? Like does the NHL care like do they govern this? Because that does feel, I mean, there's a lot of, as I'm, Gunner and I talked about the NBA earlier and we said, hey, there are so many backdoor dealings that happened there and even Gunner made the point, which is an app one. Well, in heck nowadays it just happens on podcast all the time with players anyway. But does the NHL care about this and how do they work to govern it? Because it feels like there are certain things that they are very strict about, but in this instance and in the situation, the example you just referenced, like what is, what is the line then that needs to be drawn here? I don't know how they could possibly expect to have a schedule student the way that they did and believe that that wasn't going to happen. You can't go from cup final to draft to free agency opening in a period of five days and think that that's not going to happen. Like there have been the Detroit Red Wings. They were one of the teams that waited until Sunday to get Patrick Kane done and to try and bring some of their guys back. That was 76 days after their season ended and they were still dealing with their own guys. Yeah. 76 days is longer than I think the Panthers are going to have from cup final to puck drop. Honestly, when you put it that way, you're right. The other part of it as well is just, I mean, you shove all these guys in a room together and go, but don't talk about it. Okay. Like, I know, hey, agents. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So every single team goes, every front office goes and every agent in the world goes. You mean to tell me that they're going to sit there and talk about some guy in the fifth round? No. No. They're talking about free agents and contracts. Yeah. They are. Okay. You were down this road now of policing things and spirit of the rule and the CBA. No one cares. You caused quite a stir in these parts, Frank, with your, with your, your tweet regarding, and I'm just using the quotes you provided in your tweet, fake years to contracts. Do we think that this is something the NHL is kind of looking at more closely? What do we think led to the impetus? Is it just that the cap's going up? So teams are spending a little more freely and this wasn't as much of an issue when everything was flat. Like, what do we think has led to the discussion around this topic? Well, it's the, it's the contract that Chris and I've signed, which is the contract that Chris and I was rumored to sign, which is why I asked the question and which is when I put fake years in quotes, that's the exact term that I received back from the league when I asked. I didn't come up with the term a clarification. Yeah. So to be fair, that's just, that's a normal course of business in terms of, hey, this seems a little off to be handing a guy a contract and, and look, talk to multiple people who obviously know Chris Tan as well. The Leafs, they're, they're getting a, a great player. Like this is a, I think they've significantly improved their back end for the time being. But I don't know any one single person that was comfortable going beyond three years. The Dallas Stars weren't comfortable going beyond three years. The Calgary Flames, when they had him, they weren't comfortable going beyond three years. Every game, your heart is in your throat. He goes down the tunnel once a game, like it's, it's, that's not an exaggeration. Um, that's, but that's also a testament to how he plays, right? So that part is important, but the Leafs are throwing that to the wind because that's how they have to compete. They feel in order to get the player. Okay. I guess frankly. Oh, sure. Hold on a second. They're flexing their muscles as a big money, big market team saying, we don't really care about the total dollars. That's not of concern to us, you know, years, let's just assume that it is three years that he plays for us. And we get three good years out of us. We don't care about years four, five and six. We will happily pay it. But I think they're hoping is that if he isn't playing in years four, five and six, that he's just simply parked on L.P.I.R. and it's of no, a little consequence to their cap. I shouldn't say no consequence. And that's the thought process of how they compete to get a player like that. Sorry about that, Frank. I had two follow up questions here for you off of that. So one is what did the competitive landscape look like then for a player like Chris Tana? Because why would the Leafs feel the need to go to that extent if there were another teams that were even willing to reach, you know, beyond three, four years on a deal? Why would they have the impetus to do that? And then secondarily, has there ever been historic precedent in this regard when it comes to something like this, like, has that ever been discussed or has there ever been a prior example that we can actually reference? So the first part of your answer is, yes, there was competition in teams that have no state income tax. I mean, look at Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Nevada, anyone that has that advantage, four and a half in those places is fixed in Toronto. So yeah, to compete on a total dollar level, that's something the Leafs had to do for sure. So that was certainly of interest and why they pushed and yes, we've had plenty of examples of players that have been stretched to close to 40 years old or even beyond 40 years old on long-term deals where players have had the AAV pushed down simply by the method of total dollars divided by years and really kind of with no intention to play those years, which is why we ended up with the 35+ contract rule. Now, 10 of is 34, so there's no issue and that's perfect, but if it comes a time, just like anything else with LTIR, and I actually made this point in the Twitter thread that I put out, the league is going to be watching this deal as it moves forward because enough people have paid attention to it and said, "This is a guy that at times now feels like he's on his last leg, how are you possibly signing him until age 40?" They're fair questions to ask, so they're going to pay attention to it and the hope would have to be that if it gets to a point where he can't play, that there's enough in imaging somewhere that you could point to that says, "This guy isn't fit to play," and he has a bona fide place on LTIR. Yeah, I mean, I think it's some kind of mean thing to say, but it's like, I feel like we could go to a doctor right now with Kristana and they'd probably be able to at least squint and make the case, just like you said. That's the same bet they made with Joffrey Lupel. Joffrey Lupel wanted to continue to play and he continued to push and they said, "Well, look at this imaging here, he had a surgery, a spinal fusion surgery where I think two of his vertebrae are fused together. This guy can't play." Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there is so much. I think that's the part of this that kind of goes back to what we said about the tampering aspect of it all. It's like, yeah, it's just like in the guy's hands to a certain extent, not if whether they feel it or not, but it's like, "Are they going to fight it? Are they going to see this as well?" The other thing that you mentioned, that's what they said to Lupel though, they said, "Hey, if you want, you can fight this. But just know that not only are we not going to put you on the Marley's, we're going to trade you somewhere else in the AHL and you're going to have to report every single day on a bus in order to collect your $5 million. So it's up to you, your choice. Would you like to just relax on a beach in California and collect your $5 million, or would you rather go grind it out on the rock, I don't know, pick some place in the AHL?" All of a sudden, like hopping on a pod with Shane O'Brien once in a while doesn't sound so bad, all of a sudden, okay, so you mentioned the no state income tax thing there. This is such a, it has become maybe the biggest focal point conversation in the league when we do this. We've had the run of teams from no income states either, no tax or no income tax states that have either made it to a cup final or won the cup. Does the league see an issue with that? Like I can completely, I don't have to like it, but I can understand the league looking at the Chris Tan, I've got drag to go on, what are we doing here and what world does that seem fair? Why doesn't the league seem to want to look at, I don't know, the Sam Reinhardt contract and say what are we doing, does that seem fair because I highly doubt that number is getting signed to anybody outside of those states? Well, it's probably not, I mean, again, it comes down to pure total dollars that end up net in a player's pocket and then I also think there's some kind of misconception out there about that, like, if you, and I say this as someone whose last name ends in a vowel, link, link, if you have a really good accountant, you tend to find solutions to things. So what I'm saying is players that don't live in no state income tax states, they do a really good job with their accounting to make sure that they're not getting hit over the head with a mallet, if that makes any sense. No, totally. By the way, structure their deals to give all these guys a big fat bonus on July 1st every year and then salaries tax in a different way and we don't need to get into John Tavares particular instance. But yeah, they provided that the bonus is worded correctly, then everyone's good. Right. Um, so. Oh, go ahead. No, I was going to say, and one thing that I want to add just so that no one has any misconception about what I'm saying, this is exactly what I would do if I were in their shoes too. I've got a pile of money. I am used to spending 20 years ago way more than what the cap is now. This is the, this is the way I can flex a little, like I can flex on facilities, on staff, on data science and analytics, sports science, whatever, I can flex on everything. This is one way I can now continue to compete a little bit better. This is one advantage that I have over some other teams that just their owner would say, we're giving him three more years. For what? Get out of here. No chance. Most, that's the way most owners would react. But the Leafs have the ability to do what they see fit and I'd use every single advantage in my toolbox and this is exactly one of the other things that I added in the thread that I put out. There's been so much belly aching about LTR and the Vegas Golden Knights the last few years. I had a GM say to me in Vegas at the draft, he said, do I like how this, this LTR is being handled right now? Do I like what the Golden Knights have done? And the answer is no. However, I might be in a position one day where I need it. So if change happens, organically, fine, but I'm not going to be pounding my fist on the table to have changes made now because we all might need it. Frank Kristin is obviously the most notable addition that the Leafs have made. They were busy yesterday. They kind of remodeled the blue line and that's probably the area that's obviously they've devoted the most attention to. Max Domi comes back. I guess as you see it now here July 2nd after a day where we had plenty of movement across the board. What do you think is the next biggest priority for Bradtree living in the front office here? Well, I think you'd have to probably turn your attention now and ask the Mitch Barnard question, but you guys have talked about that enough over the last two months. But that's I mean, it's a natural inflection point. Get through the draft, get through free agency. You've accomplished one of your goals and I touched on it briefly with TANF how significant I think the changes are like got a chance to watch Oliver Echten Larson up close during the Stanley Cup final have obviously seen his play in Florida all year. It's don't sleep on how important of an acquisition this is. This is the guy that should have been John Klingberg last year and they tried. But he he could have or should have been the John Klingberg edition someone that look as the Stanley Cup final went on, they shifted him to power play one. And the Leafs so he can do a bit of that. He skates extraordinarily well. And I think he did a great job defending last year for the cats and and speaking of defending. Johnny Hockenpaugh, if you're not familiar with his game is there's the classic defense first defenseman. He's the better version of Labushkin. He is he's really good at what he does. Unfortunately for the Dallas Stars, he was hurt for the bulk of the playoffs. And I think missing him in the lineup and then what they had to ask. Well, TANF was heard at the same time, but missing some other guys pressing and Alex Petrovic. For instance, the guy who played five consecutive years in the AHL into the Western Conference final against the Oilers is a big reason why the stars ended up losing that series. So Hockenpaugh was a big piece of their team. He's one of those guys that doesn't get a ton of attention doesn't have a ton of name recognition. But your defender that I think the Leafs upgraded their blue line in a big way over the last five days with TANF, Hockenpaugh and Ekman Larson. This is the change that this team really needed. Yeah, it was always apparent that that was going to be where Tre living wanted to do most of his work. That would be the case with any team, but just with the compliment of forwards the Leafs had that it was always going to be where Tre turned his attention. Frank, thank for this. Thanks for everything all year long. Not saying we won't talk to you again, but always always been fun talking with you early on these weeks. My pleasure guys. Have a good one. There he goes. Frank Sir, Villy Hockey insider and president of hockey content to daily face off this insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. So I thought of the most interesting part of that, obviously, is all the L T I R and everything. Now the, the person from a front office that he spoke to who said, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go drag it or, you know, pound in my fist about this because I might need it one day too. I think the important thing to remember with that is that everyone's allowed to use L T I R. Yes, not everyone is allowed to. And I, Frank is right about the accountant thing. Like it is, it is, it is more. It's not nothing. Okay. So anytime someone's like, Oh, state income tax actually means nothing. These guys pay the job. Yes, they do pay a jock tax. It's different in every state. It is overstated, but it's not nothing. But it's also unavailable to the Leafs. There's no world they could structure it however they want. They can give as many, again, not Frank's term, someone from the league's term, fake years as they want. And they can't give as many fake years as they want. They can give up to seven or up to eight L T I R. We can all hate it, but it's available to anybody whose player gets hurt. The idea of no one caring and it only being a good day and never a bad day to be a Florida panther. It's either a good day or a neutral day. No bad days. Some, I would imagine sometimes the team sucks and you wake up and you're like, yeah, kind of sucks, but sunny flip flops. No one cares. Wow. Okay. So this is the flip side of that for years and years for decades. Yeah. Those teams. Yeah. We're not good. Yeah. Now Tampa is probably the exception because they've had two different. Yeah. They're very good. And you have the you know, the Vinny look, have I a the Brad Richards, like they, they want. Of course, like they so they are probably the, the out the utmost exception to that rule. But if we think of, you know, Florida, we think of Carolina, we think of, I mean, Colorado is very fortunate and they've had, but they had a period where the things weren't great for them for a long stretch, 100%. So there's a, there was a natural appetite out of time for the league to make sure that they could grow their, their hold in those markets and, and make their presence felt. So that's why they sort, I don't want to say that they do this intentionally, but they're, they see value in having a team like Florida win or having those franchises capitalize on the opportunity to do this. I'm not saying that's right wrong. I just think it is a consideration. And it's sort of what has led to this point in, and to where now this feels like a major issue and a major discussion point. And it's fair. I also think it's all about, hey, is it, should we view that as cap circumvention? Yeah, because they can pay a guy $2 million less to market value, but the Leafs can't. And then if the Leafs do this, let's say down the road, they do get penalized for it. Yeah. Well, then they should be penalized, but the other teams that signed guys for $2 million less shouldn't. Where how does that add up? The point of the salary cap is to make everything financially fair for all parties involved. That is the intention. And if you have one subset of teams that are just able to pay guys less, look, if there was some world that we lived in, we don't live in this world. But if there was a world where every Canadian NHL player was just dying through blood and tears to play in this country, and they were like, no, no, I will take $5 million when I'm a $7 million player just to play here. I probably wouldn't be the guy pounding my hand on the table for it, but let me tell you who would. Gary Beckman. Okay, there's no world where that would happen. And I think that is the thing that has created this. For the longest time, we have this belief, and I'm not saying these players don't exist, but where, hey, guys, you're going to want to come here. They're going to want this smoke because when you win here, it matters more. Well, guess what? Well, no one's ever won here, at least no one who's alive, like 30 years ago, 30 years ago, Chris, Chris Tannov, like we talk about him like he's aging on death stories, four years old, an Canadian team won the cup for the last time. Okay. He barely remembers it. Guess what? He doesn't remember it because I'm older than him and I don't remember it. Okay. So I think you look at that and you just see that they've not been able to touch it. They've not been able to feel it. And you're not able to see that if there were, you see it every year at the deadline, there a point. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I missed it. We have never seen the Claude Giroux saying, I'm going to only go to Toronto with the deadline. We've seen Jason Spetsa say if you play me off waivers, I'll retire. Yeah, Chris has this. This feels like yes. It was but pretty clearly but our, but our Canadian brethren, the Calgary Flames were hoarding them going, no, you can't have them. You can't, no, you can't. You're not allowed. Only Galis is allowed to have them. That is what happened. No, and absolutely is. Yeah. So I think that is the part of this that is, it's the thing that is, it's not going unsaid. We're all saying it. You can't force a player where he wants to play. I understand that there's no edict, the NHL can do. It's not the NBA. No, that's right. That's right. There's no edict from the NHL coming down and says, we need a 12.2% of all superstars in Canadian Martin. No, that's not the problem. The problem is every time a guy has a chance or a choice and this isn't a Canada thing. It's mostly a tax thing and talking to a lot of the guys, but go look at no trade list. If we had it available to it, I'd love to see what percentage of Canadian teams are on guys no trade list. But if you have a six or seven, there's a reason. There's a lot of six and seven, no, no trade lists in this league. Okay. Do the math. Yeah. So many Canadian teams there are. Okay. So it's just, it is a thing that is becoming an advantage for those cities. And if the pendulum is going to swing the other way, and one day we got this air of players that just, I will only play in Canada and I need to play where it matters. Okay. I bet you the league would do something about that though. I bet you they would do something to funnel players to those areas. And I'm not asking for them to. I'm just asking the league to acknowledge that there is clearly an imbalance in terms of where players want to play and in a, in a league where you're not allowed to flex your financial might really. And if you try to, the league's going to come back and retroactively hammer you for it. It just, that is the thing that is kind of gummy in the waters of most in these conversations. I would imagine it's a very divisive topic and it's hard because you have the Canadian franchises, you have the Maple Leafs that will clearly be one side of the aisle and probably the vast majority, if not all of the NHL, all the other franchises on the opposite end of the aisle. I think though, in a perfect world, you find a way to compensate for that within your cap system. I don't know what that entails. If there is a way to not incentivize, but to ensure that if the Maple Leafs want to pursue player X and free agency, that they don't have to overcompensate on term to meet the financial requirements salary wise to make up for tax sector. Maybe there's some way to incorporate that into how the salary cap system works for Canadian team. I don't know, I just think you're absolutely right. And the problem is I don't think this will ever be fully addressed or table. Why? Because as I pointed out right at the beginning, it's too much of a divisive issue and there are too many parties involved and we know they want to attack issues that seem to have the closest degree of certainty and to a consensus being reached. This is far from that. Yeah, I'm going to put it on the, I'm going to put it on a slightly different reason why I will never be resolved is the people who will never stop watching hockey or the people who are angry about this. You got a bunch of markets and just like we're sitting here frothing at the mouth being like, how dare you? How dare you? How dare you? And please, when is the puck dropping on next season? I need it. I need it back in my life. I'm already feeling that way. So I think that's why it's always going to be, they don't have to, they're not trying to, they don't have to convince us to watch. They got to convince the guy in Florida to turn on. Yeah, exactly. And apparently the only way he will is if he gets up, it's his birth rate to be in the cup final every three years. That's it. So let me see it one time in my life. Would that be so hard? One time. I'd have a kid. So somebody from my family could maybe one day watch it. All right. The Born and Raised Festival returns to Montebello Park in St. Catherine's July 5th and 6th. And we have passes to give away for the two day event to see city and color and Alexis on fire to enter. Listen daily to the fan morning show for the code worth and text code word to 59590. Today's code word is Alexis on fire. Again, text, Alexis on fire to 59590. If you don't win with us, tickets are on sale at live nation.com. I'm just going to help you out there. That's all one word is the way they wrote it because that's how the band spells it. So text it in that way. Coming up next, somebody who has a hyphen in his name. It's not all one word Ben Nicholson Smith. He's going to join us next wrap things up here in the fan morning show with Gunning and Dan Yellie on sports net. I have nine to the pin diving deep into leaps, rafters, J's and NFL, the JD bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning show here. Gunning and Dan Yellie as it will be for the rest of the week. I promise I won't talk about it for too long, but I did just see something that just took me back to like not quite my youth, but a happier time. Okay, saw a video. He just made me talk about it here. I was a video of Mikhail Grabowski and Nikolai Kuleman getting ready to do some like skills camp or something. I don't care. Just seeing those guys that era leaves hockey. Oh, impossible not to love it. So go check that out. Grabo, grabo sneaky great on Twitter. Never would have thought that that would have been something that was in his vocabulary quite frankly. And the lack of the vocabulary sometimes is what makes it great. So yeah, I love it. I love it. From somebody with not the best one to somebody with the best one. He has the best words you make them say. Oh, look at you, busting out a good word to bring him in. Ben Nicholson Smith joins us now. Benny, how are we doing this morning? Doing well. Are you guys saying I have good words? If so, that's a big call for me. Yes, you have the is the best words people the best. So when I been this Blue Jays team, I mean, we've been up and down a million times. We could we could have our Vlady trade talk or Vlady extension talk. But let's talk about something from a baseball game that we witnessed. Yuri Rodriguez, that looked pretty good. I would certainly sign up for more of that. In terms of things, the Blue Jays are looking to learn this season. I mean, it seems like we have a lot of questions that are starting to have answers to them. Rodriguez does seem to be this kind of unknown in terms of what could lay ahead for him. Just how encouraging was that start? And what do you think the kind of expectations are for him the rest of the year, Ben? Yeah, that was great. That was the best outing he's ever had as a major leader might be the best outing of his 2024 season. And that'd be fine. I mean, it's it's a really impressive outing for him where he was able to go into the seventh inning. I mean, keep in mind before yesterday, he had not recorded a single out in the fifth inning or the sixth, let alone the seventh. So he had really pushed himself in that start, had all his pitches working. And the Astros too. This is a good lineup. They have Jordan Alvarez and Alex Braggman, obviously Jeremy Peña, who got who got Rodriguez for the solo homer. But you know, this is not an easy team. They've been playing really well lately. And he was able to hold them in check. So as the Jays move ahead, they need options in that rotation, right? Assuming that they do trade, you say Kikuchi at the upcoming trade deadline. If not then, he's a free agent. So that's one of your starting pitchers, who's, who's heading out the door potentially. And Alec Benilla's hurt. So they do need that starting pitching reinforcement. And Rodriguez was really, really good in the appearance against Houston. Yeah, piggybacking off of Gunner's question regarding Yereel Rodriguez. What do you think the next sort of layer is in this development process as he sort of getting acclimated? Obviously had the setback missing time with the injury. But we haven't and as you alluded to yesterday, it was the deepest we've seen him go in a game. We haven't seen him like build himself up to the point where he's routinely in the ballpark of throwing 90 plus pitches in and outing. Like, is that the next step here for him is to see how far he can actually get stretched out to get into a routine where they can learn, Hey, is this guy a viable option to be in a starting rotation every fifth day? Yeah, I think it is. And to do that in the course of a major league season, yeah, with with all the challenges that come up every five days, I think that's the next hurdle. And he's not going to do it for the rest of the year. At a certain point, they'll take him out of that starting rotation just because he didn't pitch last year professionally, right? As he was making the transition from Cuba and Japan or to to the major leagues, didn't essentially pitch. So they're going to be very cognizant of his innings. At a certain point, there will be a shutdown for him or he'll be transitioned to the bullpen, which is, which is fine. But in the meantime, he can get into that rhythm and see can just physically, mentally, as far as planning, as far as taking care of himself between start throwing a bullpen with Pete Walker. All those different things can be part of a process that makes him more ready for this next year. Assuming that he is probably going to be a starting pitch in Canada for this team in 2025, he can learn a lot of lessons in the meantime. And some of that is just wrapped every five days. Ben is a time for us to be concerned about Bo. He's, he's really fighting it. He had below 200 in the month of June. Obviously, there was a 17 game sample there, but missed some time with an injury just, but he just doesn't look the same. Like he just doesn't look like the guy that we've seen. And there aren't signs of him really busting out of this current slump that he's being, he's in. Is it time to be a little bit concerned about what Boba Shet has done this season when on the field? Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I mean, we're in July. So if she can't be concerned now, then, you know, wait, wait until September, I think, might as well. We've waited this long. Why might as well? No, I, you, you know, I think that's a very valid and salient point to raise, because I honestly, this really, you know, popped in my eye. I've been, you know, I think a lot of us, when we watch Vlad struggle, there's a natural, we have a natural inclination to immediately jump to the most drastic conclusions that we're all saying, Oh boy, red flags everywhere, like this is the end of the world. Like he's, he's fighting it right now. It doesn't look good. But with both, there seems to be a higher degree of patience, which I think, you know, plays, you know, the fact that he's a two time AL hits leader plays a part in that, of course. But I just found it interesting, you know, yesterday we were sitting there. Here he comes up to lead off the ball game. I look at the, you know, the numbers flashed on the screen and I'm like, gosh, it's still live. He's got four homers. He hasn't homered in over a month. Like that is, that is a far departure than from, from a guy then, you know, it's just that is just quote, unquote, struggling at the moment. Yeah, for sure. He's been struggling all season, really. There hasn't been an extended stretch for his look like himself. And that's rare for him in the course of a few months. Now, I personally, I still think when you look at hitters who are 26 years old and have the kind of track record that Boboshette has and are healthy, those guys tend to produce for, you know, the next few seasons at least. You do not see hitters decline at this age when they've reached that kind of height. So I think if we zoom out a little bit, it stands to reason that Boboshette will find himself at the plate and you will have really good stretches, whether it's starting tomorrow, whether it's starting, you know, on August 1st or maybe it starts next year, I don't know. But I do think that Boboshette will get back to being a very, very good impact player. So from that standpoint, my concern is relatively low, but you look at the results and anyone who's who's sitting there a little bit worried, I think that's totally understandable at this point that we're in July 2nd. Yeah, certainly. And it's been, I feel like we've all been like stealing ourself to be worried. It's like, okay, we know we've been through this before, but if this continues, it's not good. And then we run another month later and all of a sudden now we're here on July 2nd. And it does seem like we're running out of track for it. The other thing I think about with Beshed and, you know, just the question it naturally leads to is what does this mean for what the team does going forward? I mean, this is a player who's had, to your point, the track record of success. And it just, I mean, I think it quite frankly stops the possibility of him being traded down just the lack of performance and the team probably not wanting to pony up in a huge way. But you got to make a call one way or another this offseason, right? You either got to extend him and I imagine it'd be very hard to find a figure coming off a season if it continues to look like this, or you got to trade him because I don't think you can just enter the walkier with Beshed and see what happens. Like, how much does this, this one season kind of undo or impact what has happened before in terms of the contract or trade negotiations this offseason? Yeah, it definitely makes trade talks tricky, right? Where, you know, even this summer, it would be really hard to align with another team. Let's say the Dodgers as an example, a team trying to acquire Boboshette might not want to pay full price. But if you're the Blue Jays, if you're Ross Atkins, you can't exactly trade him right now for, you know, pennies on the dollar. So it becomes really hard to align on trade in the short term. I think that would still apply for the medium term where you're talking about a player who's going to make a lot of money in 2025 and someone who will be on the brink of free agency, but he's got a ton of impact as well. So, you know, it's tough to find that great comp for a player of that caliber coming off a mediocre season or worse. So as for the in or out possibilities, this is where I sort of would disagree. And I think we talked about this before a little bit, Brent, but, you know, and you're, I don't think you're alone in thinking about this the way you do, but I don't think it's an either or I don't think you have to extend the shed or create him this off season. I actually think it's okay to go into the 2025 season with him not extended and just see what happens and hope that and work to make sure that he's going to be able to get more out of his skills in 2025. And I know that's an uncomfortable place to be. But, you know, teams like the, well, the Blue Jays have done this before with guys entering their walk here and it's worked out and so have other teams. And I think that there are other problems with this organization and with this team. But the idea of letting a guy walk, I think that's okay. That should be okay. And you should be able to overcome that. Yeah, I think that's interesting. You know, I would, I would just the thing. Well, the thing that jumps out to me is I agree with you if there was a system in place. And like, this is the problem with that is that I would agree with you. And it's like, we all go to the Dodgers for the like, stack system that's just ready to. But if it was a team that had been consistently kind of populating the major leagues with guys that have hit and stuck, I think you could make that case. But I think that's the reason why it's so unpalatable, not just to the fan base, but I would, and obviously you're more connected to this than me. So I'm not going to tell you what they think, but I would imagine that that would be the reason why it's so unpalatable to the front office as well is that you just, you either got to use Boba Shett to be Boba Shett, or he used Boba Shett to kind of reset this thing. I think that's why the sentiment is that way, is the just because of the state of the system, not because what you're saying is untrue about if a player can walk or can't totally true. And I think that, you know, the Dodgers have done a great job of restocking their system with really good young players. And so, you know, that's why they're the Dodgers, and the Blue Jays are not there when it comes to drafting a player development. There is a chasm between where the elite teams of Major League Baseball are, and where the Blue Jays are, especially when it comes to pitching development, but also, you know, position players, they've lacked that high ceiling impact since drafting the Shett in 2016. So, yeah, I think that to me, the way front office is not just the Blue Jays, but the way front offices in Major League Baseball attend to look at these questions would be, okay, if we say that we have to do one or the other, then we're just kind of painting ourselves into the corner. And once you say, okay, we have to either trade or extend him, well, extending him is going to be hard. Now, are we in a corner where we are trying to trade someone at a time that they aren't really good offers or trying to trade him at a time that his value was low? Maybe you just take that middle path, accept that it's uncomfortable, and then you adjust in the season. Maybe this time next year, you're trading him. Maybe this time next year, it's an extension at the All-Star Break, or he hits free agency and you resign them. There's still other pathways available beyond something resolved this winter. It's a good reminder that he could hit free agency and just stay a Blue Jays. I kind of forgot that was a possibility for half a second. So, it's a good reminder. Thank you for that, Ben. And thank you for joining us today. We really appreciate it, buddy. Anytime, guys, thank you. There he goes, Ben, Nicholson Smith. Very pragmatic. He's perfect. He's a perfect guy for me to talk Blue Jays with because I'm just like, the earth is on fire. What is happening? Bloody hits, but the team still stage. Rodriguez is good, but it does not matter. And he goes, yeah, yeah. Hold on. There's 162 of these. Well, that's the thing, right? They have to be him, shy, hard, and all these guys that cover the team on a daily basis, they need to, for the most part, approach it in that fashion to tolerate 162 of these. I wish we had that's the reality. I wish we had a Pete on the beat, because then I could call him, like, pragmatic Pete or something. Like, I'm sure there's like another P name, but yeah. I did have it. I did have it. I don't want to fully, I would not fully dismiss what Ben laid out there in terms of the option of having Bulbashek just step in the next season in a contract here. Yeah. But here's where I would feel comfortable and Ben used word uncomfortable. Yeah. Here's where I would feel. I would feel comfortable with that scenario playing out. If I knew there were changes within the front office and I say that because I don't feel comfortable with this group with Mr. Ross Atkins making the call on whether to trade or keep Vlad or Bo or to enter contract negotiations with those guys, I don't feel comfortable with that. So if we're sitting here a year from now, and also to his point, yeah, Gunnar, there's there's a the runway short at this point is Bo going to be in a position come the end of September. Yeah. Where we look at the base back of the baseball card, and it says 292 with 20 homers and 70 RBI. Probably not. No, he's running out of time. That ain't happening. It would take a historic historic surge for him to get to that level where his numbers reflect the type of player that we believe he is. So as such, you're probably heading into the offseason where the guy that is a depreciated asset, a a depressed asset because of the fact that he struggled and you wouldn't want to trade him at that point. So the longer this actually goes on, the more it lends to that belief or to the to the theory that heck, you know what, it might not feel great, but the best course of action might be to just say, we got to park it again. And we got to keep him here to at least start the 2025 season and then see where it goes. Yeah. And man, this is a, this is a longer discussion than the minute and half. I know, I know what I'm about to say is that you mentioned the front office, if there are changes there and like, this isn't me sitting here saying, Boba, she walks in the offices as yeah, I'll sign when he's gone. But if there are changes, does it make the chef feel differently about the direction the org is headed in and have faith in all that? There's, there's one person maybe two who knows that Boba Shet and his agent or Boba Shet and his dad. I don't know one at one of the two probably. These are questions we're going to continue to ask Blue Jays back at it tonight continuing their series with the strobes, Jose Barrios on the bump. So like the chances, but they're the Blue Jays. So I also roll your arm. I also don't know how they say that only only Marosi does that on the show here. That's dead yelling. I'm Brett Goding. We'll be back tomorrow. Bugs coming up next. It's been the fan morning show on Sportsnet 590. The fan. Good morning.
