[MUSIC] Hey, that man, his money is what it means. He wants his money. He gets it in Smashville. $8 million cap hit per year over four years. Nice little 32 mil in the bank, not all today. He's got to wait to get that money. But every year, getting 8 million of those dollars, good on Stamps Coast, man. I mean, part of it is because for once a good player left the Atlantic as opposed to arriving in it. But kudos to him. That is my first blush reaction there, you know, in a world where, you know, obviously very different situations where Sam Reinhardt's like, no, no, just take whatever you guys want to give me. It's fine. No, six bucks. Okay. Sure. That works for me. It's tough 40, I'm your captain, I've been not Mr. Ironman, the Mr. Heartbreak and all these runs and coming back through like the torn labrum to score one goal in my one shift in the cup final and one of our runs. So I, man, I have to nothing but commend him for it, quite honestly. I mean, obviously I'd feel different about this if I was hanging out in Tampa, although maybe I wouldn't. And that's part of the problem, but that was first blush. You just, you do not hear the honesty, a lot of, a lot of times you'd hear the, yeah, you know, it couldn't make a number that happened. That's what it is. No, he expanded there of it's about respect. It's about what I'm worth and yeah, agreed he is worth that. I think, you know, and we've known this for a while, but his comments there and he used the word in his answer. Loyalty. Yeah. It's just nonexistent in, in sports these days and professional sports. It really is, is going, you know, it's going away. It's not. It's not there. It's going the way of the Dodo bird. Is that what you're going to say? I would have thought you're like too young a man for that one who had made its way to you. Okay. Yeah. I have that in my backpack. Okay. I just, I'm happy to know that it's out there still. Good job. But I think it's crazy for a guy that's 30, what is he? 34 now? Yeah. He's in, he's the same. I think. 34, 35 in February. Same as 10. Yeah. So for a guy at that age to get a four-year deal, 8 million per, and to come away looking like the sympathetic figure, I think that says a lot. That's a great point. I think that says a lot. Got it. Yeah. Right? He got his money and deservedly so. Yeah. And yet we all looked at it like, God, they did him so dirty, right? Right. And that's, that's the prevailing feeling. Yep. It really is. Julian Breezewa made a comment yesterday where he was, you know, and he was obviously being peppered with questions about stanchos and how, why it didn't work out and how this unfold. Yeah. Pretty much. Like, how dare you do this to a franchise icon, a legend, the captain of your team. Yeah. The greatest player in franchise history, Mr. Lightning. Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. And they've had a lot of good ones there too. It's not like they haven't had anybody. They've had good players. And he made the point, well, you know, it's very rare for guys to get their fourth contract with the same team. And he's like, Victor Hedman, we're working towards it early so we can make sure that that happens. And he becomes the exception. He named a guy. I forget who it was. He uses an example and I'm thinking, no, but it was your choice. Yeah. You made that decision. This guy was willing not to do anything, as you said, take six bucks. That wasn't going to happen. But he was going to be reasonable and he wanted to be there. He always conveyed how much passion and interest he had in staying with the Tampa Bay Lightning. And as a franchise, you just went and said, yeah, screw that. And guess what you did instead? You paid Jake Kenssel who's going to, Jake Kenssel's not in his mid 20s gunner. No, 29. He's going to be 30. They paid him $9 million a season on a long-term deal. Like I just, I don't understand the thought process. I was really confused because they made that move. Yeah. And then what do they do? On Friday, they traded Mikael Sirdichev, a 26 year old defenseman who's locked in at eight five for another six years, controllable, cost effective, especially with the rising cap. They traded him. I really don't understand the calculus of what Tampa's trying to do and why, for whatever reason, they were so obsessed with kicking their captain to the curb, a guy that really wanted to be there. Yeah. Like it has been loyal. Well, he's gone. I'm with you. So the, yeah, Genssel, like he's 30 in October, like he is effectively a 30-year-old signing this, signing this deal now. He makes $1 million more than Sam Coase is going to. And here's the thing I'd say about this. And again, this goes to, you know, I know it's my hobby horse, but I'm going to get a continue to harp on it is this goes to what the pressures are or aren't in Tampa. And obviously it's different because they've had success. They've won down there, but that makes them like love the guy more. How good does Jake Genssel have to be to not become kind of like public enemy number one? If he is, if it's just the dollar figure is right there, and I think I want to be clear, I think Jake Genssel is going to be a very good player for this team. There's a reason everybody at the deadline was dying to get him. He's a proven playoff performer. All of that. He's going to regret signing Jake Genssel. He better not have a quiet seven game series in which they bow out in the first round though, or all of a sudden you're sitting there going, well, we got a loss in the first round with Sam Coase and him being Mr. Lightning, like, you better have something to show for this. And, you know, the Breeze law would say, hey, nothing's promised, man. That's why I'm doing these moves. That's why I throw circuit chip overboard. You know, you look at the cap face they have left. So it's a little over six and a half mil feels like that's probably what they were offering Sam Coase, right, they wanted to save that room for him there. That is a lot to ask a guy to take on a haircut per season, especially when he never rang the bell in a big way. The most money Sam Coase had ever taken home per deal on a cap. It was eight and a half. Okay. This is a league where every superstar, he looks around, he's going to be in the, you know, whether he's on the team, not on the team, whatever, he's going to be in the conversation for Team Canada. And he's going to look around and everybody younger than him on that team, and they're all younger than him because he's an old man now is going to be making. And if they aren't making it now, they've had a chance to make it or on the class above making it 10 plus, that's what you get when you're this level guy and he never, ever got that money. So the idea of trying to squeeze them one more time, Hey man, it's tough decisions. That's a breeze. Why he, Sam Coase, they both are like, Hey, I'm, we're both very big boys. We can handle this. I believe them, but you better have something to show for this. Otherwise it will be seen as the kind of throwing overboard of your captain for yes, flexibility for moves that are good. Like I like the pencil signing. You just really better have something to show for it because then you're going to be looking at a Brayden point, Jake Gunsell, Brandon, Brandon Haggle, Cooch, your office will be there. But yeah, like it's, it's, it's just interesting how quickly it changes. I, I felt like if there were two guys in the national hockey league that deserve to be Mr in franchise here, it was Sam Coase and I mean Crosby's another one, Victor Hedman. Yeah. Those two guys felt like a hundred percent. They deserve to have the right and the opportunity to just be in that one spot for their entire careers and finish there for everything that they've done to not just elevate the franchise to winning championships, but to elevate the profile of the sport in that particular city and that state. They chose to stay there. Now mind you, it's a beautiful lifestyle, don't get me wrong, of course. But Sam Coase, I'm, I'm totally with you. And I find it hard to believe Gunner. I find it really hard to believe that stammer, even if it was six, five, he wouldn't have done it for three years to whatever. Try to find a number. Man, I, I just, I feel like it was at a point where they probably didn't even have the real conversation. Now, how do you feel about him ending up in Nashville? I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't begrudge him like the guys played in Tampa, I guess. I, I would have, I would have wondered if he would have wondered what it felt like to play in a quote unquote real hockey market. Well, I'm sorry. It is. Okay. Like he goes from Tampa to Nashville. It's like maybe one day he'll know what, what it feels like somebody who knows what it's like to be a general manager though, in a real hockey market. My friend and yours, Gordon Stellik, sport staff, 590 analyst and insider, former Leafs GM and Rangers AGM cohost of the NHL morning skate on Sirius XM. Gordo. How you doing today? Well, I'm good at not only a former general manager, but a, or an assistant general manager, but one that has also been kicked to the curve. So, you know, so I can, uh, I can identify in, in many ways. So we're just, yeah, you heard the tale into the conversation there. We're just talking about stam coce. I mean, you get it from both parties perspective is kind of the way I see it. Like you understand breeze while I go on, Hey, I want to keep this thing chugging. I want to have some flexibility. Jake Genssel, he's, he's young. I like the way he looks. He's 30. He's not that young, but you, you want to get him in the mix. But also it is just so quite frankly, you've sad to see a player not able to finish in a place they wanted to. And, you know, it's not like this was a guy who was, you know, starting to lose his life. He had 40 goals in the NHL last year. It's just, it's kind of surprising that they couldn't find a way to make it work. Well, we, we, he picked up the model from Steve Isaac. And did you really embrace what about, you know, about it being a business? And, and I give them credit on that side. They made the final three years in a row that won the cup two years. And, you know, every year there was a player or two that really wanted to be there that, that had to leave. But I always felt not just stamp goes, but surrogate. You know, you got future off point, Hedman and Vasaleski. Those were kind of the six that we're going to see it through for whatever. And the one, the one element here that really pushed in again, I can't believe it's anything personal. So it's not Stephen Stamkos being kicked to the curve, but it's Stephen Stamkos's cap space being kicked to the curve is the fact that they added Ryan McDonough. So they moved Sir Goodsheff and you're thinking, okay. And, and they moved to know when you're thinking, okay, good. Now they've got the cap space to get you again so they can keep Stephen Stamkos. But you got McDonough, now granted way less term than Sir Goodsheff's contract. Hey, but he makes six point seven five. So you really, you really did not create. And, but I guess he looks at it that we need, we need to be strong on D. That's what I need. If a Sir Goodsheff is going, I got to get it. I got to get a defensement of that. That's more important to keeping Stephen Stamkos. So, you know, we see the business side of it. Okay. Is it, can it be ruthless at times? Well, probably like the real world. It is ruthless at times. And I don't like everyone suspicious. Is there more to this story? What was Stephen Stamkos in some way depicted as a malcontent by the organization? I've never heard that. I don't believe that. But you start wondering about what may be, but anyway, they made a business decision. They feel they're better off with Gensil and McDonough. Then they are with Stamkos and Sir Goodsheff going forward. I made this point, Gord, to garner just a few minutes ago where I said, you know, it's very rare for a guy to sign a $32 million contract, $8 million AV at age 34. And we're sitting here and painting him to be the most sympathetic figure, potentially out there in free agency. But it's a, it was obviously a very weird departure and the circumstances surrounding the exit for Stephen Stamkos in Tampa Bay. He chooses Nashville, which obviously they've been big spenders the last couple of years in free agency. We think about Ryan O'Reilly. We think about Luke Shen. They've gone out and they've been very aggressive in this market so far. What do you make of the fit in Nashville for Stamkos and sort of what their, their calculus is in trying to construct this roster right now? Well, Barry Trot's a general manager. It wants a very different team than Barry Trot's the head coach. I mean, that team had no forwards. They had great goals ending, great defense. And like David Leggone was going to be the predator of the century for whenever from the forward side. So, and in a lot of way, I mean, last year, I mean, O'Reilly played there. My quest was a really, really huge surprise. So they were getting some interesting offense. I mean, they really spent thrifty last year. So this year, they went big and they added two big pieces. They added two big scores, you know, they, they, they added what all those goals, not just Stamkos, but Marcheso, like within one minute. And they added stud D and Brady Shea. Like, I mean, that's where when we talk about the Leafs, about, you know, I like depth-wise with the Leafs did, but you couldn't swing for the fence for a Brady Shea or Brett Pesci, money-wise. So I, whatever factor Steven Stamkos decided in Nashville, and I think probably up till, I don't know, when, maybe two weeks ago, he didn't think he'd have to be considering that. He had to like what they see as far as his team evolved and they've just really, really, I mean, I think too often on July 2nd, we're over-hyping teams that make picks. And then all of a sudden the season starts and you go, oh, well, you know, whatever, because free agency alone does not make your team. But I think in this case, in Nashville, this, this is really a great trifecta. Great David Lake one joke. I like to make it as well. We're going to have to retire it this year, though. It looks like Roman Jose had just pulled it up. He's only about 50 games back of passing him for the all-time games lead as a pred. So I love making that David Lake one joke as well. But we will have to retire it, I think. Martin, you're at Scary High on that list as well. That's a great one. That's enough predators history for, for right now. You mentioned the Leafs, they're obviously the biggest piece of business. They did was Chris Tanev. I don't think anybody was surprised, especially when she saw them trade for his rights, you throw that in with the addition of like a Hocken pod. They bring in OEL on a multi-year deal. What do you make of the Leafs blue line now and how, how different it looks from when the season ended? Well, I'd love to have kept Joel Edmondson, but you can't understood that. And there'll be a trade deadline pick up comparable to that this year. So I like what they did. I mean, the feeling is Tanev will be a fit for Morgan Riley. The feeling is OEL will be a first unit power play performer. So, you know, so those are all positives and Hockenfly, you got a big guy. That's a six or seven fee. So the, the Leafs team never makes you go wow, but I thought they got some good complimentary pieces in. And, you know, money wise, it was money well spent. It may be turned not, not term well spent, but that's the understanding, right? I mean, it's not like they overpaid for the guys, but I think they over-term the guys, like, I think here, but that's not the problem for the upcoming year, right? And, and good for Kristana, then all of Rachael Larson for getting term. I mean, that's what you want to get some kind of security. So at a relatively reasonable number and based on what these guys did last year, like, like OEL, people keep thinking like, well, he got bought out. Well, no, he got bought out by Vancouver because he had a contract where he was supposed to be Quinn Hughes, and he wasn't. So he can go back to being, you know, a core four D, something like that, rather than the guy that's supposed to be the guy on your team. So I like what they did. Domi, again, he got some term. He really, really came through in the playoffs when they needed him and showing his versatility about positions and playing on whatever lines. I think he's still got to get another forward. Like, he's still got to get kind of get what Tider Bertuzzi or something, like Tider Bertuzzi brought. I mean, the encouraging thing last year and, and, you know, what's about some of the players from within the organization that that was starting to evolve and develop up front. So that was a positive as well. So, you know, goaltending wise, again, Anthony, you know, the great backups. Who knows what they're going to be if they have to carry the freight? I mean, Anthony Stoller's is going to be a backup in Toronto. But if Joe Wall gets injured, which is another problem, if he becomes one of those perennially injury prone goal tenders, but then yet you have to hope that, you know, Stoller's could be like Charlie Lindgren's bid in Washington and be the guy that can carry the freight. Yeah, between Stoller's and Wall, Gord, neither have played more than 28 games in a single season. So that is, that's obviously testing it. They're going to be tested this year to push that workload higher for both goal tenders, especially if the stand up is going to be a success in 2024, 2025. Um, okay. So this is, Gord, this is really Brad tree living's first full off season in charge here. And I think the tone has been very different in comparison to what we saw last year where it was clear, this is a guy who's stepping into a new role, who's trying to get his feet wet, trying to get acclimated with all of his colleagues and all the players on this roster. Now it feels like he's starting to put his stamp on what this team will look like. And, and I guess my question for you is, do you see a specific through line in how he's trying to construct and assemble this roster? Is there a specific theme that is being emphasized in a lot of the moves that he's been making? Well, like he did in Calgary, he did a really good job there in trades and some free agents about a core D, right? Like they had a deeper defense core in Calgary, you know, to go with the firepower. I mean, it wasn't that long ago. They had that great season under Daryl Sutter. I mean, and then everything's kind of falling apart. And so that's what you're seeing here constructing the D. And again, let's see how they all play on the ice because there's no, he doesn't have the flexibility because all that money is tied up up front to make the wow move. Okay. That's something he's not been able to do here that he could do. In Calgary, but that's, I think, what you're seeing there as far as the D goes and it just not giving away draft picks all the time. Like, you know, Kyle Dubas left the cupboard bear for a team that should have been in the Stanley Cup final at some point instead of a team that continually, continually disappointed in the playoffs. Yeah, that's definitely been the way things of things have kind of gone there. You know, the TANF move in particular has gotten me kind of thinking about the timeline that the Leafs are on. And, you know, I understand the timeline is Austin Matthews is a walking human being and he's going to put on skates. Then the timeline is to win now. I understand that. But just having a guy like Chris Tannoff kind of even increased the impetus even more. And I wonder if that was kind of done part and parcel with not trading Mitch Marner because, you know, not to say that you're, you couldn't have become a better team with the stuff you would have got back or whatever. But the idea of trading Mitch Marner and then bringing in a win now, I mean, he's 34 years old. He ain't getting any younger. Do you think those moves at all were kind of tied together? Or could you have easily seen a world where Marner's dealt and they're still going out and getting a player like TANF? Marner is a separate animal. That's a whole separate case. And again, you know, Brett, you and I've been through it. Oh, yeah, I have about this. This like the poor believer in Mitch Marner is always for the preface. And I go, what, like, what the hell are they listening to all the time? If you're listening to social media, you're idiots. Okay, what was that? I mean, this guy is beloved. This guy's been like a star player, a great player. I love watching him play and wherever that criticism's coming stupid. Like we all get anyway, whatever. So I think, though, what's happening in a lot of cases, and Edmonton's got to look at that with Leon Dreyseidal, I just referenced Calgary and you go back to it. And okay, the Johnny Goodrow situation, like what, what you don't want to have happen is get caught with your pants down like to happen there. Like they believe he was coming back. He didn't. So it optically looked terrible. So then Brad for living, then the Flames GM had to preemptively say, okay, Matthew Kachuk, what are you looking at next year? And then he chose to make the move because Kachuk said, well, I, you know, I'm, I'm not necessarily looking at staying. I think now when they look at it, they say, you know what, if I'm Edmonton, I'm, I'm better off keeping Dreyseidal and taking my chances if he doesn't sign early on. Toronto may please, you're going to go for it. There's no better. There's no better person to go for it than Mitch Marner. You're not going to get anything close in return for a Mitch Marner. If you're, if you're still think you can go for it. I don't think the Leafs are as good a team as they were a couple of years ago. But that doesn't matter. It doesn't mean they can't still go for it to have more playoff success. 100%. I mean, I think that you laid it out in a very, very, very succinct and logical fashion there, Gordon, um, I had one other. There's another forward here on this roster that seems to be a little disgruntled. And that would be one Nick Robertson. It's actually a gutter and I haven't even touched on it all morning yet, which is weird. But there was a report over the weekend that he's has no desire in signing a new deal. He's obviously an RFA. So his control is limited in that regard, but he would like to pursue a trade and have a fresh start elsewhere. What is, what are your thoughts on Nick Robertson, his place in what the Leafs are trying to do here? And, and this trade demand that has now emerged over the course of the start of the off season. Yeah, well, I would, I would believe it would be a trade request because you can't really command, but we'll find out. I mean, like, I've always like, you know, it was kind of a surprise when we got, well, first I was great getting out of the pandemic. So you had the bubble series and all of a sudden he's in the lineup. You never played and he's in a playoff game for the Leafs and they didn't have many young players. He could score goals and then he got hurt and, you know, he got hurt so many times. And then when there were opportunities like I like, I've liked him. I've really, really liked him. I don't know why it is not really clicked at all. With a new coach coming, I have no idea what Craig Barooby thinks about Nick Robertson. But the Leafs don't have to act in haste here. They can certainly see, OK, maybe this is the year. Like it's funny, Jake Dabruss signing with the Vancouver Canucks. It was just, I think, three years ago, or whatever, that it would look like him in Bruce Cassidy where it locked her heads and he was going to leave Boston. And things worked out there. Now, Dabruss was a more established NHLer than Nick Robertson is right now. But that's the way I can kind of see playing it out. You don't need to be hazy if you're the Leafs. And Craig Barooby may just may echo the sentiment. No, I got no rule for him. Let's try to get something or there's something I'd like in him. And maybe he'll get an opportunity. So if I'm the Leafs, because I mean, you're not going to get a wow thing back for him. You don't have to get anything wow back for him. So that's the route I would pursue. And Nick Robertson would, well, he can choose. He can sit out. That's his one choice he can do if they choose not to do it. I don't think that's a smart choice given his history of missing games. The integration. So we'll see how it plays out. I do understand his frustration. Yeah, I think it just, I mean, honestly, you just see the writing on the wall, right? It's like, you see the front office that brought him in and you see the front office that's here now, they kind of view the game in, I don't know, diametrically opposed ways. So I think there's something to that last one on this guard. Then we'll let you go is there was always a understanding or, I don't know if it was an understanding or it just got talked about more with this person than other. The Dubis was always somebody who wanted to do players these solids. Like Travis Dermot is a guy. Remember, they're like, ah, go find a new home in Vancouver. Was that something that we just talked about more with him? Is that fairly commonplace in the NHL? Like, I think that's something that people are kind of trying to find some insight into it this as well. Cause if unless I'm remembering it differently, I seemed to have this memory of Dubis doing this a few times and different players saying, all right, go ahead. But it's not going to work here. We'll try to find you your new home. How common places that among NHL front offices? Well, I mean, you see with Barkley Goodrill that, you know, New York Rangers weren't afraid to ruffle feathers there and that. So there's an element that, you know, you get a reputation about how the players are treated by organization, but I don't think that's how solely how players make decisions if they're going to go there, if they have that chance. So I think it applies a lot of ways. I'm just, I'm just glad we don't have Dubis speak anymore. Like I just glad we're down to nuts and bolts, you know, rather than, you know, the wizardry of whatever, like, well, yeah. And then, and then, and then, and now for the first time, the biggest thing was everyone focused starting with Sheldon Keefe that losing in the playoffs is unacceptable where a couple of years ago, part of the whole Mitch martyr thing was Kyle Dubis saying, I'm pissed off of the criticism, Mitch is getting it. I felt like, well, you should be pissed off. You lost the Columbus. I agree. You just off at Mitch and Austin and Willie and everybody and yourself that you lost a Columbus. That should be the focus. And, you know, and last year, you're looked at it. What a waste that, you know, the whole thing. You're looking to go for Stanley Cup. And he's orchestrating a, a charade about leaving the organization, go to Pittsburgh. So I don't care. You can ask the penguin media what they think about, uh, where he's sending people or not. I, I, uh, but to answer your question, because it's a fair question. I, I think, uh, I, I think there is an element of that. You, you do try, but ultimately, as we saw in the Stevens Damco scenario yesterday, if you're, if you're going to have successful, it's got to come down to being a business decision. Yeah. That's a great point. You're not doing a favor for Stephen Stamco's. What should Nick Robertson expect? Gordo, uh, God love you. And, uh, thanks for jumping on with this man. Always enjoy our chats. Okay. I'm just going to pull away from the curb now. Okay. There you go. It's still hard. Good man. Uh, gourd. Stella. Like absolutely love, love, love that guy. Uh, smart clarification by him. I think, and this is just like a lost in translation thing. There's, you can ask for something. Sure. You can demand something. It really, it really means the same way. Same thing. It's just a matter of how you're going about it. And, and you can demand anything you want, but if you don't have any power to exert that demand, it doesn't really matter. I, I, I, I'll be honest, my stance on this has been, this is a very overblown Toronto story. It's a guy. It's Nick Robertson again, like, like Brad, you're living as a GM. And Craig Brube is a coach. And what world is that? And Nick Robertson hockey club. Well, that's that was my prevailing takeaway from the whole thing. I think, and he sees it clear as day. Him and his representative, of course, they see it. They understand what is going to be required. And the type of players that they're looking for. And his skill set doesn't align. Yeah, if he couldn't play, if he couldn't crack a line up, consistently with Sheldon Keefe as the head coach with Kyle Dubas as the general manager. Yep. Why would we believe he can consistently crack the line up with Brad tree living and now Craig Brube in charge? Yeah, the thing that's frustrating about it. But you have to, you have to just let it go is that he is going to go to some team where he has free wheeling opportunity. And I don't I don't say that is like Robertson's a guy who cheats the game. I think he actually got a lot of stride. Honestly, go play with Goudro. Go play with Goudro. Go be a shark. Go be you want to go be the fliers. I think they still want to be bad there. They're kind of half pregnant on this thing. Yeah, and actually don't go to Philly. They're going to load with you there, just like always hurt and small. You want to go for torts, too? No, I take that bad idea. I'm sorry. I said that I shouldn't have put that out there in the ether. But some team like that, he's going to go score. Twenty five goals for us. He'll have his year where he pops. Thirty ish. And then we have to remember what it looked like, how those goals come and what you want your team to play like. It just it never felt like he was outfitted for this team and the way in which is development and the way that development process unfolded. I don't think that helped either for the player being injured, being in and out of the line up, being up and down routinely. Yeah. But we all knew, well, what was what's his best attribute, scoring goals? That's what got him as Gord alluded to. That's what afforded him the opportunity to be in the lineup in the bubble after never stepping foot on an NHL ice surface. It afforded him the opportunity because he scored 50 goals in June. And if you're going to be a goal scorer, you need to have opportunities to play with other talented players that are going to help you score goals. And on this team, it's just not there. It always felt like a bit of an awkward fit. So I understand his frustration, I get it and the Leafs are in a difficult position because if anything, even if you are going to trade them, you'd want to return some level of value on the player. Otherwise, you'd much rather just keep them in your system and say, if the opportunity presents itself and we might need you, we'll turn it to you in that position. And that's why I think Bradcher living as he was saying yesterday, being very complimentary, talking about how he feels like there's still quote unquote opportunity here. Word of it is business. And that's where he's kind of stuck. And I feel from in that respect, because he understands there's a, his upside, his ceiling is capped as long as he's in a Leafs uniform. Yeah, there's definitely an element to that. And I also think there's an element if you're another GM, you're going, well, he's a leaf, he's going to get claimed if they go on waivers. So I'll just, well, I'll sit here and play cat most of the tree and share it. You're going to try to pass him through waivers. Good luck with that because someone will be dying to claim him. And also just like last point on this with the Robertson specifically is a lot of times we talk about a smaller skilled guy. I think people hear that as code for the player doesn't work hard or he doesn't want it. Everything you have ever heard about Nick Robertson, polar opposite of that. This is a guy who I'm trying to remember the exact particulars of it. But during COVID, he basically had two choices. Could have stayed in Toronto and worked out with the Leafs or he could have gone back to like the USA national development team and been part of a world junior team that went on to win gold. And you know what his choice was? To stay in Toronto and work and be ready to be. And hey, that proved valuable for him. He was able to get in those bubble games. But this is a guy who at every turn has said, no, no, no, let me dedicate myself to this. So I, I don't think this is a, it's just a size thing. Quite frankly, like, sorry, man, you're not your brother. No, no, you're absolutely right. Because here's who has bit he's been usurped by on the depth chart. Bobby McMahon, who was never a fixture here before last season in terms of consistently getting in, Matthew and I who at the time Nick Robertson first broke into the NHL was not even a thought. And so he's been surpassed by those two players. And what do they have that he doesn't, unfortunately, they have the genetic composition that the Leafs are interested in and that happens to work for the role that those guys are looking to fulfill on this team, right? If he's on a line where he had, and this is a bad example maybe, but you know, let's say instead of Austin Matthews, it's 97 playing center. And that's your, one of your wingers, you might see that guy being extremely valuable to the type of team that you have. But in this scenario with the personnel that they have, it just doesn't fit. Yeah, you know what? That's honestly maybe the biggest point of it all is that forget about it, whether it's 97 or not, they just have to, if he's going to play in the top six, they have to shoot for centers. Exactly. I don't have a problem with that. Like, I know there's been a lot of criticism of, especially as Tavares kind of slides into a different role now, does he need to look to, fair question to ask. But when you have, when you're going to have knee lander or marner on one of the lines, that's enough facilitating. Exactly. Okay. And like I know, knee landers will score, but we also know what he can do in terms of play maker. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Man, a lot, a lot on the NHL. Well, plenty more, including Frank Servelli trying to get the Leafs in trouble before the even signed Cristana. We're doing that after eight o'clock on the other side of things. We got to talk, got to talk, got to talk about the NBA free agency, it just, guys, switching teams. It's all that ever happens in this league. We got more of it. Paul George is a clipper, no more. And yeah, we'll just get a full rundown of NBA free agency because it happened just yesterday to fan morning show continues with Gunning and Danielle Allen on Sportsnet 5.9.TheFam.com. Analysis and opinions on all things Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your information. Check out Jacob Chickren. Interesting because I am just like a hockey head, I can't help it. I am who I am fan morning show, Gunning and Danielle, here with me all week. And we had a big day yesterday, not because it was the birthday of our beautiful country. I don't know. That was a big day. I enjoyed that thoroughly. I got out. Well, fun in the sun. Jumped in a pool. It was great. You know, it was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Let's be honest. Got pushed in and jumped in really. Okay. All right. Am who I am. But then we got a bunch of NHL news. The Leafs did their requisite thing. We've talked about that, but the NBA, like they just can never stay quiet. Them in the NFL, I've just decided they're going to divvy it up, how they're going to divvy it up, but they are going to own all 365 days of the sporty calendar. And once again, not a quiet one. I don't want to lead the witness here, just NBA free agency was your big kind of takeaway from it. Oh, okay. Um, you know, I used to get really jazzed up about NBA free agency. Of course. Um, big time. Now that has wavered in recent years and here's why. Because contracts mean nothing. They, it's all, it's all paper at this point, it's just, it's, they can be ripped apart in a moment's notice at the behens of any player in the league. So as a result, it's not what I feel like it once used to be. Okay. And I feel like, call me crazy here, I know we love player movement, but I do think there are certain years where, or periods where we need an extended stretch of stability where we don't need big guys constantly jumping team to team every single year. And so I think my interest when it comes to the free agency, the frenzy of it all has kind of wavered in recent years as a, as it pertains to the, to the NBA because of that in particular. And it's mostly been soured by the reality that, you know, James Harden signs tomorrow and then he's going to the next day, say, I don't want to be here after I've just signed this contract. No, shit me elsewhere. That is where I struggle with NBA free agency. You know, I hadn't, I hadn't thought about it and I'm not, I'm not necessary. I am. I'm actually, I've arrived at the same place as you, but I think it's for a different reason. I'm ready for a new generation of NBA free agents. You know what? You know, I think back to the time I was most interested in like, it was the time we were all the most interested. Okay. The LeBron decision. It's never been more exciting, but it was because LeBron James was 26 years old or whatever he was. Absolute peak of his power. On a path to at worst become the second greatest player in the history of the sport. This was coming, you'll have to correct my timeline here, but I think this was coming off the back of the now I never got to free agency, but the Carmelo Anthony with the Knicks and everything that happened there. Dwayne Wade was involved in all of this. Obviously, he just stayed with his team, Chris Bosch. If Chris Bosch was the crown jewel of free agency, sorry, we wouldn't have cared about it that way. Well, you're trying. We wouldn't have been the same. We wouldn't have been the same thing. These are. This is not Anthony Edwards and Nikolai Yokich and Shae Giljus Alexander. Right. That's not these guys in free agency. We're still doing it with the like, Oh, it's LeBron good. It's all the same guy still. It's James Harden. It's Paul George. We've just done this dance. Not once, not twice. It's just like the third go around with all of these guys. I think that is why it's so like, again, I saw it yesterday, I was like, Oh, Paul George changing teams. I've color me. Surprise. I know he's only changed teams once or twice now, so it's not fair to lump him in that way. But it's just you're right. It has lost its lustre. I mean, the decision again, like I don't ever want to go back to like that. We have this ability to look back on things and remember them more fondly than we should or whatever. But I don't need a decision every year, but it was special because it was the guy. It was the man. It was not an all star. It was not a guy that's going to be part of a big three. It was the tip of the spear wherever he was going. I think that's a very valid point. I will say, I even remember when Dwight Howard got moved and that being a very, very monumental transaction and the idea of him going to play with the Lakers was very appealing. But there have been other guys not named LeBron, not of that caliber or even the caliber of a fringe Hall of Famer like Dwight Howard might be that have been moved. And there's been a lot more intrigue. I feel the persistence of the movement is what has started to dilute things because it almost feels inevitable that whether you're paying attention or not, there are going to be these marquee names and players that are moving. I do think like if Anthony Edwards, for instance, pops off big time is an MVP is taking his team deep into playoffs. Let's say he doesn't capture that ring and he's chasing that elusive title whenever that time comes that he hits free agency, it would be a bigger deal and it would feel massive. But I just think the way that the NBA life cycle, the way this league operates, it just doesn't have the same luster for me that it wants to. Not that I don't enjoy it. I still do. I still do. I actually even and I had if the one I get to narrow, I had one big gripe yesterday, okay. So Paul George, I think is obviously the biggest transaction that we've seen so far, him going from the Clippers to the 76ers opting out of his deal signing a new four year deal with Philly. Naturally here in Toronto, that then leads us to talk about the failed experiment that was the Clippers. And here's what I think I am of the mind that I don't think why Leonard Maine mistake going to the LA Clippers. I think Kawhi's biggest mistake and I actually don't fall Paul George for any of this because I think Paul George is one of the more underrated stars in the NBA. He is really, really good. He's electric and one of the most talented players, skilled players in that we've ever seen in this league. But I think Kawhi's biggest miscalculation and misstep is choosing or not choosing, but being adamant about not having Shay Gilles Alexander as his running mate. His biggest misstep was overlooking what that guy could have been and instead saying, no, no, no, go get me PG because PG was never even on their radar until that whole situation sort of came together. And as we know in the NBA, there's a lot of back channeling. So all of a sudden they announced at a two AM on a Friday, now they just do it on each other's podcast. But yeah, pretty much. But until that moment where that was those two moves were announced, we're like PG, where did this come from? It's because Kawhi Leonard was like, go get me another co-star. I don't want that guy Shay. Doc Rivers even revealed this on a podcast a few months ago, where he mentioned my first conversation with Kawhi in the free agency process, I told him, come here and look, this kid is really, really good. And Kawhi's like, nah, go get me somebody else. And he's like, okay, okay, you're Kawhi, I'm not going to say no. But he tried convincing him. He said, I'll tell you something, this guy could be your running mate. And that I think is his biggest miscalculation. And a big contributor has to why that ultimately failed because they've gone down this road of Russell Westbrook and James Harden to try and par along side him. It doesn't work because they're not winning players. Shay is a winning player. And he would have been the perfect fit. If they ever would have had a healthy run with him and Kawhi, that I think was probably his biggest miscalculation. But of course, I mean, they'd just throw in the idea of like, do we all remember, I know I'm certain. And it remembers this. Do you remember how he looked after the championship? Like the, the him and Kyle Lowry just sit in there laughing, talking about not having to work anymore because they were both just so broken and defeated by that run. The idea of not looking at a 21 year old kid or whatever he would have been at the time and saying, Oh my God, this is perfect. Don't hire me with this. Let him let him be the young bull who wants to run, run, run. And I can kind of pick my spots and load bandage it up. Of course, I think the other thing that is such an interesting part of that kind of miscalculation of it all is so much of the Kawhi. I mean, look, Kawhi was coming off the finals run. There's there are very few teams in the league that wouldn't have sold their soul to get Kawhi Leonard at that exact moment. But a big part of the calculus for Balmer was opening up this new arena with the star that is Kawhi Leonard. And I'm just telling you right now, you have what you get, you can't have any star in the league. I'm not going to tell you that. You get two choices. Star to sell your brand new home or Kawhi Leonard, Shae, you'll just tell it's Andrew. It's LA. Cool. It's not even a question. This is so it's unfair to Kawhi Leonard to say this, but it ain't even a question. It's SGA. He's so cool. He's young. He's an MVP candidate. You can build around him with anything you want because he is this very pliable player that can be surrounded by many. Now Kawhi also can be surrounded by very different types of player and still have success. But that's the crazy part of it that so much of it was done under the guise of I need a star to sell this arena. If I gave you any player in the NBA, I'm not saying you would definitively take Shae, but he's on the short list for sure. Absolutely. And rightfully so. He's definitely on the short list. He was an MVP finalist. He's right there. Well, and it's like a sorry Nikolai Yokich, but it's like if I'm just if you're just giving me not to win basketball, no, no, like the player and the marketability of the athlete. Yeah. I mean, you'd be hard pressed on his like his donchage, that's what I was gonna say, marketable figure than Shae or Yokich like, yeah, I totally agree. I told like I would, I would even say Anthony Edwards probably is right up there, him and Shay in terms of the young faces of the game. They're right there as guys that play this really fun, energetic style of basketball and then also have the marketability that makes them just so much bigger as their own individual brands that contribute to a franchise. Totally. No doubt about it. They, I just, I really, I saw it happen yesterday and that's why I wanted to circle back to that point because I naturally, I get it. It's Toronto and everybody's so hypersensitive here. I saw that conversation pop up and revisit, re-litigate the whole Kauai thing. Yeah. I don't think he made a terrible choice. I just think ultimately, the decision that really did him in was not deciding to leave, it was who he decided to partner with and that's it. What makes it great as well is that it's just for, for turning his back on Canada, it's turning his back on a Canadian that is ultimately kind of like it all kind of dove to us together. All right. Anything else? Remember you had imagined there were other things that kind of jumped out to you. And you'll notice there's nothing raptors because guess what, the raptors roster is set, which is actually a good thing. Yeah. Quite frankly, it's a really positive thing that going into yesterday, or not yesterday, it's Sunday evening, technically, that you didn't have questions about, hey, what's happening with the raptors. We have no more talk about deals that could be made up. We could make them two years from that now. Yeah. Today. At least it's like, this is the core, this is the team. That's it. We're here. That's what it looks like. Good luck. That is very similar and to the Stephen Stamco situation with the lightning, right? It's very interesting. There are some parallels there for sure. Clay, I think, had a desire, a genuine desire to be with the Warriors for the balance of his career. Him and Steph will be forever linked. There are splash brothers. There will never be another splash brothers tandem. That's right. And it started to crystallize as the season progressed, you could see this happening. This inevitable divorce sort of materializing because his role changed. He went from starting to coming off the bench to being utilized in a more minimalized fashion. And now he's exiting and it's gone. And it feels like, hey, this is a parting of ways. The Warriors are done and did it as amicably as possible. They're going to retire his jersey, they said, at some point. I think the fit. He goes to Dallas. Dallas is interesting to me that the fit in is interesting. Two of their best three players are guys that are there. I don't want to say Kyrie's over the hill because I really like Kyrie. But they're going to say turn styles. That's what I thought you're going to say. Well, those two are him and Luke, I know, but this is where Clay, if he can recapture just even some semblance of the guy that he was two years ago when the Warriors won their title, then Dallas will be very happy because they lack perimeter defense and they can always use more shooting and Clay checks both of those boxes. So how does that fit? You know, on paper, it seems to be an adequate fit for him in the map in a map situation, but we'll see his time progresses. I just thought that was obviously an interesting decision from clay to leave the Warriors and subsequently to choose Dallas as his destination. Yeah, and honestly, to make it as amicable as possible, right? Like it's got a little awkward there over the past year, but in the legacy, there was nothing he could have done or the Warriors could have done that would have ruined the legacy of that team, of course, but you don't want to ending with fighting and tears and all that. You want to ending relatively, relatively speaking, amicably. Oh, and if I can, I have two quilt. So if you didn't, if you, you may have seen this, there were multiple reports that went free agency open LeBron immediately decided I'm going to try and kick the door down and go get Clay and reached out to him and he got, he got spurned by the Dallas Mavericks. So that's always fun. And the other thing, speaking of the Warriors, boy, oh boy, and hindsight, how bad was that Chris Paul trait? Yeah, brutal. Like I know they hate, I know for whatever reason, they were desperate to get rid of Jordan pool. But I'm sorry. Jordan pool is an infinitely better basketball player than Chris Paul is at this stage in his life. And I actually think him going to the Spurs, Chris Paul, that is signing with the Spurs. Perfect. Oh my God. That's exactly what they need. Pocket passes to Wembley. Oh my God. Someone's going to actually pass in the ball. It's going to be amazing. With all the youth that they have. And then you're talking about the just the elite point guard prowess like that is floor general ship at its finest. It's a perfect fit there. And honestly, it's, you know, I know he's going to say, no, don't say that. Look, you're not winning the title ever. Chris Paul, sorry. Like that ship has sailed. Yeah, if this is going to be the twilight for you of going out and we got a bunch of great highlights, a U of Wemby and in 20 years when we're looking at all the best from Wemby's career, we go, Hey, that's awesome. That is a great way for it to play out. I wonder how the Blue Jays game will play out today. Well, let me tell you, it's time for the Wacom where presented by sports interaction, your home growing sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly, Astros in Toronto today for a date with the Blue Jays. First pitch flies just after seven o'clock. And Spencer Eric Getty against Jose burrios there. It is a pick them on the Moneyline Astros minus 105 Blue Jays minus 115. The over under is eight and a half. You got to pay a little bit more on the under minus 115 compared to 105. You got to lean on this one, Danieli Houston Astros. Yeah, I don't think that's yeah, generally speaking, if a team's playing the Blue Jays and it's a bit of a pick them, I'm going to take the other team. So yeah, only minus 105 on the Moneyline. That's where I'm, I'm going as well there. Should be a fun night down at the ballpark. We shall see that was a Wacom rate presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly free agency. We just talked about it in the NBA. Now we're back to the NHL, Frank Saravelli going to join us. Get into the nuts and bolts of the day yesterday are the least going to be in trouble with this Chris Tanev contract. And why aren't the Panthers in trouble for their Sam Reinhardt one? We're going to ask Frank all those questions as we continue fan morning show with Gunning and Danielle on Sportsnet five night of the fan.
