We're going to take a look at what's going on. ♪ ♪ >> Good morning, Joe, 4-7, 5 out of the band, man. As Brent Gunning, I'd love to start the show with an anecdote about how the Blue Jays have won two consecutive and are on the precipice of turning their season around, about to keep rolling out the wins and get back in the American League off Chase, but they didn't play game. I mean, they played a couple innings of a game that is apparently going to be resumed in August, so. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we're moving on. We'll talk Blue Jays later on in the program, and there were a couple of little nuggets in the Twitter sphere yesterday involving some pretty big-name Blue Jays players, but yeah, Brad for Living holding his first media availability before Friday's NHL draft yesterday. >> Just quickly on the Jay's aspect of it all. It is just one of the wonderful perks of baseball that sometime in August, they're going to start a game and it's like, all right, it's the second inning and there's a man on first or whatever. They have had to do this. I can't remember the exact particulars, but like, there was one NHL game where they had to finish it afterwards, but it was like, it was already set in stone and it was like, we're just going to drop the puck. And then we're going to start the game. I forget in the exact particulars, but this has happened like quasi-recent. >> Wasn't there a Mavericks game this year where like they did the good day? >> Yes, something along these lines, yes. >> The horn went early or didn't play. Oh my goodness. No, they had to replay the final seconds of the first half and somebody hit a buzzer beater at the end of the first half when they, I think they resumed it in the second half. Anyways, I digress. >> Yes, but it was actually me who digress and then I drag you into the pitted digression with me. >> Yeah. >> Not regression, but digression. >> So yeah, everybody had their little jokes lined up. Blue Jays didn't lose yet again. >> Nice. >> He had two consecutive games in which that has not happened. And Yariel Rodriguez, he continued his game like he was still throwing in the bullpen apparently so that he remains on track to be this team's fifth starter. >> I guess that's good. >> Good. >> Spark, pragmatic. >> For him, I suppose. All right, and up Blue Jays for now. Like I mentioned, Brad True living gets a full off season for the first time in his career as general manager. >> Unlike the Toronto Maple Leafs. >> Unlike Sheldon Keefe, he doesn't have to wait about five years into his ten year. How many times do we have to like, all right, well, you know, somehow Sheldon Keefe has been here for 13 years and has never had a training camp. It's nice the tri-living, like, has the one year where we talk about it being weird, but it actually begins at earnest now, yes. >> Yeah. >> The world is normal now. >> Ish. >> Ish. >> I was going to say, like, I mean, what's normal. >> Normal. >> More normal. >> Certainly. >> Certainly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, he can travel. >> It's allowed. >> He can leave his house. >> Yeah. >> He can take the pin out of the hole if he's playing golf. >> Yeah, although harder to put when you're not just hammering it against a pool noodle. >> Yes. There's just no debate about that. >> Anyways, first full-off season for him. Last year, he had to jump on the moving train, right? >> Mm-hmm. >> Like, he had to eat it, take over technically before the draft in free agency. >> Yeah. >> But do you remember the draft where he wasn't allowed on the floor? >> I do. >> The first round. >> Calgary Flames, like, be petty or my God. That's still holding a graduate. >> That should have been our first indication that there was never going to be a trade between these two organizations. >> Yeah, and guess what? Smart individuals, such as myself were speculating about that then. And everyone said, "Guys, guys, it's okay. They're just going to wait until they have no assets that anyone will want, and then the fall will happen." >> Yeah. >> And look at where we are. >> Yeah, we're at no trade. >> Yeah. Of course not. I don't think Raspous Anderson's got plied over there any time soon. >> I don't think so. How many years do you think you have to pass before they can once again deal? >> I think Jerome againla's son has to be named captain. I don't know. Whenever that happens, it's like he's going to be a top-ish pick in this draft. Bucaloa's waxing poetic about him. I think it's teach, even though I want to say tinge because of the way it's written. But yeah, I think that's when it happens. It's like then they'll be like, "All right, well, who cares about your living? We have the second coming of againla." But until then, I genuinely don't know. >> Yeah, it's a good question. Anyways, that's besides the point. Okay, he did his first media availability. Not his first off-season media availability because that came very early. Of course, as it does most years, except for last, after the first round in seven games. >> That's still pretty early. >> Pretty early. Last year it came after five games and a half later. >> It's like a week and a half later. >> It's like a week and a half later. >> For the Toronto Maple Leafs. Anyways, this year we're back to our commensurate seven games of the first round and then GM and all the players talk before they go on their merry way. So he did that. But since then, he's having a lot of fun. >> Yes. >> To digest and think. >> Maybe sign a boss pizza. I don't know. >> Perhaps. >> He just had digest, made me think food. >> Yeah. >> Do you think he has to pull out the credit card when he goes to Boston Pizza? Does he have one of those gold cards? >> I feel like there has to be like, it's like a pizza card or something. I would imagine. >> Life time pizza. >> I think so. >> Which, like, hook a brother up. >> Yeah. >> Would take. >> So would I. >> I would imagine. >> I think so. >> Like hook a brother up. >> Yeah. >> Would take. >> So would I. >> Anyways, first full-off season, first post-season media availability for Brad for Living. And naturally, he's asked a lot of things. And he didn't give some intriguing answers, mostly about the blue line, which was obvious. But they was very open about the fact that that's the main area of concern. But it's all about Mitch Marner until we have some clarity. Is this the deal that makes people's minds up about Brad for Living? Because I think, and we were talking about it a little bit off the area yesterday, that while most people are still very furious at where this organization has gone over the near decade now, where they've had the most skilled player that they've ever had in the history of this franchise, that there's just one post-season series victory to talk about. >> Mm-hm. >> It's hard to lay much of it and like John Klingberg, that didn't work out. >> Nope. >> It's hard to lay too much of it at the feet of Brad for Living because of the things that I mentioned, that he's jumping on a moving train. He's got the Austin Matthews contract extension number one order of business behind him. What the hell are you doing with William Nylander? He's got a figure out which free agents to add. >> Mm-hm. >> And not all of them were home runs, but it's hard to quibble with Tyler Bertuzzi and Max Domi and the impacts they had on this team. >> He was 50-50. >> Yep. And then Simone Benoit, grab him off the scrap heap. He's still a member of this team. >> Mm-hm. >> Well done. But yeah, I think most people haven't fully made up their mind on Brad for Living. If you ask them, "Has he done a good job?" I think they'd say, "Yeah, he's done okay." But really, where is the defining move? >> It feels like it could be coming. >> Yeah, the scenario I've been kind of thinking is, let's say hockey worked the way, like, you know, European football does. And it's like the whole of Leafs Nation ascended down to whatever they call the practice facility now where they have the end of season of Wales. They would be screaming at Brendan Shanahan, and then they'd go, "And you need to hear this too, but this isn't about you, true living. Now, this is the first time it's going to be about him. I think there are people, everyone in life has their bias, right? When the Leafs, if you care at all about the team, or you think about the team, or you cover the team, the name of them is GM, you generally speaking, if you've thought about hockey at all in your life, you have a flash opinion kind of one way or another. Like the move, don't like the move. I don't think it's an overly strong opinion, but I think most people come into it with a little slight hint of bias there. And then you see the way the first year goes, and I think that most people go, "Okay, whatever bias I have in the middle of the scales." This is the first one that tips the scales. Now, it won't be, it'll be a two-part version, I think, because I don't think this marner trade, if it happens, is just going to be like, for a great defenseman that makes a little less money and maybe something else one way or another. I don't think that's what it's going to be, so it's going to be, you know, clear the space, and then what do you use it on? But whatever this window of transaction is, is far and away the first time that you're living is going to have the scales tipped one way or another for most people on him, because all the other moves, you can love Domie and Bertuzzi as much as you wanted and hand up. Like, you know, my experience from Bertuzzi, I certainly felt this way we all felt early on in the year, but by the end of it, who didn't have those guys as a hundred percent approval rating guys? I mean, Domie specifically, so I think you give them credit for that, but also, okay, well, where are they? They're not here anymore, so you give them credit for a one-year move in a season where you lost in the first round, okay, how much can that possibly endear you to a fan base? The Ryan Reeves signing, we all did yo-yo's back and forth on that all year. That wasn't going to be his defining move. No, no, no, but I think it was one of those things where, if you were somebody that was predicated to be worried about true living's approach, you would look at a move like that and go, ugh, I don't like that. Are we going to just be over paying for term for older? I think people look at that, but it's not a defining move. This is the first one that's defined, even the Klingberg, it's like, I certainly raked him over the coals for it. It was a problem for the team early on in the year. It was a problem for the team heading into the deadline with the L.T.I.R. of it all. But ultimately, that's not the reason they did an advance past the first round is because John Klingberg wasn't John Klingberg. So I just look at it as this the first time people are really going to have to make up their mind. I mean, you don't have to do what you want with it. Yeah, and obviously, the results are going to paint it, right? You can say, well, this is my opinion now on Brad's we're living no matter what. And if it's a negative one, it'll be rendered irrelevant if the Maple Leafs do the damn thing. OK? But yeah, it's all we have at this moment. What was Kyle Dubas's defining move? For me, it was overpaying the young players that he said he can and we will, and paying them too early. I mean, maybe you can point to the NASM cadre deal. I think the, if we're going to use the Bradcher living of it all, I think the overpaying for the stars was something that tip people one way or another. For everybody who, you know, kills them for it. I think there are a lot of people who said, hey, cap's going up. You want to pay these guys? You want them comfortable? You don't want them feeling crushed by the way. We don't need to relitigate all that. But I think that tipped the scales a little one way or another. And then I think the cadre trade slammed at home. So I think that it was, and to use the tri-living, I think that this marner trade is going to be the one that really tilts people one way or another. But then what does the team do going forward? And that's going to kind of tilt it back. Yeah. Yeah. We've got to add our qualms about the NASM cadre trade. But I do feel like a lot of that is revisionist history. And like what Tyson Berry was good. Well, no. My favorite question about it that we'll never get an answer to. And TJ Brody certainly never is happy. We'll never get an answer to it. What if that rumor trade had just gone through? Yeah. How do we feel about the NASM cadre trade? Certainly better. How do we feel about TJ Brody? Almost certainly worse. Yes. Also, I guess the one saving grace with Brody. I mean, in that scenario is he's making similar money. You'd imagine, although I don't know, maybe they get him into the coffers. And they're like, we've got to give him six and a half. We've got to give him seven. But yeah, that's the sliding doors on that that I always wonder about. As if that one had just gone through. I mean, no, I don't think anybody views it as a home run trade for Kyle Dubas. And oh my goodness. Look how he, and it's funny that it's truly funny that it's truly living, of course, right? Look how he took true living to the wood shed. I don't think anybody looks at it in that way. But you certainly feel better about it than Tyson Berry. Yeah. He sure do. Because, you know, like he played for the team for multiple years and was good. Yes. Not Tyson Berry. It's not good. Tyson Berry is a net negative. I think we can all agree. Although he racked up a bunch of points when Mike Babcock was fired. I think he scored the first goal of the show. He definitely scored his first goal in the first game. Wasn't it in Arizona? It was in Arizona. I'm just trying to remember if it was funny. Because it was funny enough that he scored his first goal of the year immediately after Bab's firing. But I think it might have been the first goal of the game. How young were we when we're like, oh, look at this new young head coach who's playing music during practice. He's got these guys unleashed offensively. I would just love. I would love a true serum question to Sheldon Keith. There's so many more important ones. But first things first would be who convinced you to play music in the practice. Because just knowing like having had the track record that we have with them now, I don't think that was like a key fism to be like, you know what? We need some sick beats to motivate the guys. Just knowing what we know about him doesn't sound like that was him. No. God, there's so many. Maybe he gets to be more himself in a second NHL stop in New Jersey. Anyways, certainly think so. All right, back to Brad for Living. In the 12 minutes that he did in a conference room in Las Vegas. So yeah, we'll talk about the defense stuff in just a second. But Marner. Yeah. Like three or four questions on Mitch Marner. Of course. And he sounded like Dirk Diggler at the end of Boogie Nights. Like he's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. Was there? It's got to be the nicest comparison anyone's ever made to Mitch Marner right now. I got to be honest. Uh-huh. Did that change your mind? No. Was there anything in that to parse? I think part of it, just to go back to the point we've been making, is that we're still learning a little bit about true living, right? Like this isn't a coach who talks 500 times a day and you pretty quickly get an understanding for how he feels about things. This is an executive that you hear from once in a while. And I think part of this is what we talked about in terms of messaging to the fan base. But I didn't hear once in there, we have no interest in trading Mitch Marner, right? Like that's the thing to me. And there's a world where you can, he says that yesterday of, oh, we're like, it doesn't need to be, we're not going to trade Mitch Marner. But something, throw a little centilla of that in there and then you have the means of the world come to the mic and say, he's got to say that just so some other team doesn't look like they're going to come in with a weak offer. There was none of that to me. And that is, quite frankly, the most telling thing. The question I have about it is, do you think that is just like his honest candid opinion on how he feels or do you think that there was a, because we talked about the PR of it all when those guys spoke versus when the players spoke and no one wants to hear, yeah, everything's on the table, including bringing it back. No one wanted to hear that. They wanted to hear there's going to be changes. Do you think any of that answer and the lack of we don't want to trade Mitch Marner is any PR or you think that's just him being candid with how he kind of feels about the situation? I think he's trying to defuse the rumors that surround this team. But that'd be a good way to do it, wouldn't it? We have no interest in trading Mitch Marner. If that's what you're trying to do, if you're trying to quiet all the rumors. I don't think he also wants to be just a straight up liar. I do think he wants to create a relationship with the Toronto media that's, hey, I'm not going to give you everything that you want, but I'm also not going to lie right to your face and create enemies right out of the game. I agree with you because the question was asked of him. It's not like there was one about hey, are you trading Mitch Marner? But the one that precipitated all the Marner responses was, hey, Mitch Marner is extension eligible July 1st. Are you guys going to talk extension? He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. Weird. That's not what I asked you. Right. Weird. Do you want to answer the question that was asked? Do you want to just talk about something over here? You could have even laid out the different scenarios. Hey, he has, I mean, he's done this a little bit before so we do. Okay. Retreading old ground here. But yeah, the balls in his court, he's under contract and he controls all of that. Okay. Once we get to July 1st, perhaps that's like there was no intimation about any conversation occurring between he and the player. And in fact, we're going back to the thing that was the talking point and should have been at the conclusion of that seven game series against the Boston Bruins that hey, we're evaluating everybody and we're seeing how all the pieces fit. That was months ago now. Like the evaluation of how the pieces fit and who you are determined to bring back and who you are determined to send out the door and what kind of return you're looking for in trade. Like that should be well established in the mind of Brad for living. So the idea that we're still trying to figure this out and hey, everything's still on the table, that may very well be true and I'm sure there's different possible scenarios than they played out. But they have one that they want, right? They have one they have an ideal way that this offseason is going to play out now. So the idea that it's just all nebulous and who could possibly know. Well, I think the only thing I'd say about that is I think part of the problem with that is I agree with you. Like I think Brad your living and Brendan Shanahan and even Keith Pelly who's not doing this to sell jerseys, doing it to win games. Okay. I think they all have a master plan that this would be dream scenario X, whatever it is. They need a dance partner, right? I think that's part of the problem here. The other thing that I think is interesting about this is and I didn't expect I didn't expect this to be the opening salvo in the Leafs versus Marner PR war here. But we're running out of time. If you are of the opinion and I don't think Brad's living is personally, but if you are of the opinion that the best time to do this deal and the time you're going to have the most suitors is at the draft, that was your first chance to really crank up the heat. It's one thing leaking something. Well, it's one thing leaking something to an insider or, you know, like, intimating and saying, oh, you know, this player doesn't talk to X, Y, and Z. It's another thing to step to the mic and say, we're miles apart on the contract or something all on those lines or the player has not given us a list of teams. He has not given us a wide breath. Like, and I didn't expect that from him yesterday because quite frankly, I know it seems crazy that, you know, Monday is so far away, but it's like this is a long stretch of days in the NHL. I didn't expect the opening salvo there, but if he wanted to do it, he could have there and he didn't. Yeah, but do we have to judge everything on a moving scale when we talk about Toronto? Yes. Is it? Is it? Yes. Is it not turning up the heat by not talking about a possible conversation with Mitch Marner about an extension? Great point. Like, is that, like, hey, Mitch Marner, there is no conversation between -- and not that Mitch Marner would necessarily want one because of the injury that he sustained and the accounting statistics not being there for him, that he would probably want to do the William Nealant -- like, if the -- if he thought his future was in Toronto, would he want -- would he not want to just play it out the same way William Nealander did and then put the screws to the Maple Leafs and force them into paying him 13 times 8? That would make him popular. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Sure. But he does want -- like, I'm sure he wants to be wanted. Uh-huh. There's -- like, he said he's a star, but again, the direct question asked to Brad for living was, "Guys can sign an extension July 1st. You guys working towards that? Is that a goal?" Which, like, obviously the question asked -- the person asking the question, I forget exactly who it was, knows that that's obviously not on the table, but like, how's this guy going to answer this thing? Yeah. Yeah. One thing for me to know it, it's a very different thing for him to say it. So, it's one thing for that to be the response in Nashville, or New Jersey, or San Jose, and quite another for every word to be parsed by the Toronto Maple Leafs General Manager, who didn't say, "Yeah, no, word." This is obviously -- he did say he's a star. He didn't say anything about, "Hey, we can see a long-term future with him." Or, "Hey, we got to get in a room." And, obviously, that's a priority for us. Like, and again, obviously, it's not. But, yeah, that's not being messaged towards the player. I think in this market means more than any other in the National Hockey League. I wasn't -- I wasn't of this opinion when we started talking about this this morning. But I think I've arrived here now. Is Bradcher living good at this? I don't know how the trade's going to work out. Like, he is obviously a competent manager. He wouldn't have never gotten the job to be the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. But that was the part I was most concerned about, worried about. And, you know, not the Calgary some backwater where they don't parse every single thing, probably to an even big -- I shouldn't say a bigger extent, but it's like it's a Canadian market that loves hockey. They're parsing everything the exact same. I was a little concerned about how trade living was going to handle that part of it. I don't know if it's the clout he seems to have in the org that just gives him the confidence. I don't know if it's just -- this is his MO, and this is part of it. But I thought he had a very deaf touch with those questions of -- I mean, quite frankly, giving us a little to talk about, but also being forthright, but not kind of spilling the beans on everything. Like, I feel like he walked a pretty good line with that. And I honestly -- I wasn't of that opinion until we kind of started talking about it now. I watched it all. You do have to play the game. Like, it is important. It's important to play the game correctly. And to my previous point, if he just came out in both ways, lied to the assembled masses, well, you would have understood it, and you would have said, okay, that's his right. Yeah. Yeah, you don't think that that puts a little burr in the saddle as some of these people who are some of the tastemakers and opinion-formers? You're talking about us, of course. Yeah, we're not in Vegas, but yeah. Yeah, that would have trickled down. Hey, that's annoying. The general manager lied to us. And a week later, he traded Mitch Marner when he said he was going to talk about an extension with him. Like, that's pretty infuriating. Didn't do that. Nope. And he said nothing, which is, I guess, also not great, but yeah, we're able to parse his nothing. Yeah, we are. And I think that I just -- I can't wait. I imagine he's going to talk after the first round or another point this weekend. Like, he's going to talk today. I cannot wait to parse it all. Okay, it's fine-toothed. Calm, magnifying glass cheese cloth to sort it through. Whatever I need, I'll be using. The one thing that he did make is explicitly clear. And it's -- again, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out. Madeleine's need defense, man. Like a lot of them. And the right side needs an overhaul. Yes. And, like, Jake McCabe did a good job on the right side, but I think they want him back on the left side. Yeah, and you've got to pay him soon, too. Yeah. Yeah. You do. Yeah, he's -- this is the last year of his deal. Yeah. Or he has half a salary or 10, you know, makes you a million bucks. Right. How are you going to go about doing that? Yeah. Did you also read Luke Fox's latest on Sportsnet.ca in which he -- he just threw it in there. And it's -- it shouldn't be polarizing because what we'd be looking at is not what he signed up for last year. But John Klingberg coming back at a reduced rate after the Maple Leafs invested so much in his surgery and rehabilitation. He's on the table. This is a guy that -- he's not assured an NHL spot anywhere he signs. And it's going to be near the veteran minimum. So -- Yeah. He -- he can have the vet minimum and come to camp fine by me. I was -- I didn't know -- I didn't know where to put this, but I've been kind of thinking about this as well, just you mentioning flyer names. I don't know how much an appetite. I would imagine at zero, but I also think there's some people out there who go, "Well, what if the second half of the Leafs tandem next year is Matt Murray?" Like, there was all the noise about him coming back. He has proven -- If you've got two pieces of glass, you have a whole piece of wood. Well, I mean -- Oh, we joke, but him and Sampsonov covered each other off marveling now. Sampsonov getting injured at opposite times. Okay. But, like, it worked. I have -- okay. Here's all I'm saying, is that with the tier of goalies that they're looking at -- Yeah. I have -- I think it is entirely possible. You get just as good, if not more, out of Matt Murray. Everybody who's making the noise that he's coming back. Now, I don't know how he feels about the messaging of everything regarding him with the team. No, I don't hate it. That's -- I just wanted to get that on record. I've been, like, I've been praying that I was thinking about this all day driving home after the show yesterday, and I don't know if you've had this, but the whole day I just spent being, like, no one say Matt Murray's going to be leaving his house. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if you've had this, but the whole day I just spent being, like, no one say Matt Murray's going to be the leaf goalie next year. I wanted to be first. But it is a tough thing, though. It's one other thing to have Laura and Brozwa, who's never started 30 games in an NHL season. Be the backup to the guy who's always hurt. It's quite another to have the guy who was just hurt for an entire season. What's Matt Murray's market going to be? Like, Madam Jones? Yeah. So he can't be Martin Jones on this team. And of course, not pasture wavers because he's a leaf. It's always shocking. It's always shocking. It's always shocking. And it's always shocking. It's always shocking. And it's always shocking. It's always shocking to look at the Wikipedia page and see 30. That's the thing. If this was 35-year-old Matt Murray or 47-year-old, like we all think of him as, because he looked like a hostage when they rolled him out for the opening of the season last year. He's very sick. And no one better ask questions about it. Start coughing. Do the coughing. But that's the thing. If he was 35 years old, I would not be having this conversation. He's 30. Everybody, I shouldn't say... Oh, okay. Yeah, he is. There was a lot of noise about him coming back. He clearly wants it. You could do worse. The memory in my opinion. And how would you not... Like, if you're in Flyerland anyways, because that's where they are. That's the thing. If there was a... If they could just get corpus aloe at the exact number of Boston still has them at it. I'd say, yes, of course. Like, I'd rather you do that. I know he was terrible, but so were the sons. I think he bounced back. Whatever. But you can't. And it's Praswa. I'm not sitting here because they're both goalies. I don't know if you're aware of this. I'm not sitting here telling you one of them is going to definitively have a better season than the other next year. I'm telling you it's just as likely that Matt Murray outperforms Praswa than the other way around. A hundred percent. Yeah. Ideal scenario. You can get both. Obviously those are the two guys. You can't get both of those guys. But like, could you get Martin Jones back again? Something. I don't know. On a two-way deal. Somebody just... Yeah. Percolating. If the option... The option is you go out and overpay to a certain extent for Praswa. Or you use that money on your blue line and you take more of your flyer on Murray. I honestly would rather that. Last thing though. On the back to the blue line. Yeah. Because that's the obvious area that there's going to be huge overhaul just factually. You know, losing some key pliers. TJ Brody obviously passes best before date. But he's waving goodbye. Mm-hmm. He saw the writing on the wall. Yeah. For sure. So, as this team in the Austin Matthews era ever had like a significantly above average blue line. Like Jake Mazen was hugely important. And boy, God can be overstated. Like how big that loss was quite honestly. Yep. It was used as too much of a crutch. And like you're allowed to replace a player that you lost via injury. But it like the line of demarcation of how you felt about the blue line was basically Jake Mazen's self. So, with Jake Mazen, they were capable. And God, TJ Brody in his prime when he first arrived and that pairing he had with Morgan Riley made it a very competent top pairing. But it had like, you know, a well above average blue line in the entirety of the Austin Matthews era. No, I don't think so. Because even the, my favorite season, the North Division, when they just played shut down hockey. That was like. Justin Hall. Oh, that was, that's the thing. It was a team defensive effort. Like it was a great third line with camp and Mackayev and Hyman. And that was just as much a part of it as the blue line. They've had pairs you've certainly liked at times and they've been the king of the, you know, underrated guy who then becomes overrated because he's a leaf, but like your Ron Hainsey types, right? Like, but never a stud up and down left, right and center blue line, not even close. They've maybe had a stud in Morgan Riley and that's it. I'd be interested to see what that looks like. You know, like combine the generational goal score who almost scored 70 with the, the other, like the guy playing on his wing who's seems like a lock for 40. And then John Tavares is a depth centerman who I think like his decline has been a little bit overstated now. And I think everything's bouncing. Like, look at his five on five numbers. How similar they were this past season to the season previous and they're not worlds apart. He's not an 11 million dollar player. But that doesn't mean he's not a second line center. He's not a second line center. If you think of him as go score 40 goals and break a guy down off the rush. But if it's a grind line responsible, go look at teams playing in the cup final. Go look at Florida centers and like I'm not going to sit here and tell you they're no good. They're very good. But it's not guys who rack up points left, right and center. No, I might be interested in seeing what a team with Austin Matthews and a really good blue line looks like. Yeah, I very much would be interested in that. You know who else? I bet that they say he'd be interested in it. Is Austin Matthews? Yeah, I'm kidding. The Selke forward guy, not that he's sitting there saying I need to cheat a little. But like, I don't know, maybe it might be nice to cheat a little once in a while and not have to not have to wait until the very end of the season to get your 70 goals get out of the way in like early March. And then we don't have to think about it. But yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to see that. It's just, yeah, I'm sure I'm really trying to think like outside of like all of the guys that you like. I'm really trying to think like outside of like all of the guys that you like or you hate. They have a flaw, right? Like it's like gardener. I was somebody who like, I like Jake Gardner in his time here as a leaf, but obviously had flaws. There were things that there's a reason he's a polarizing player. Morgan Riley has been the best defenseman of the entirety of his lease run. And he's a and I know this is like no insult, but he's a fringy team Canada guy at best. And if you're going to talk about a team with a low to blue line, that's kind of the start of it. And it doesn't matter. Like you can go beyond the states or some other low to blue line, but I think that's just the you put it so simply right there. Even TJ Brody. That is supposed to be, you know, this is it's one thing when him and G. or Dano and G. or Norris winner, and that's your pair. But when TJ Brody was here, especially the later versions of him, he is supposed to be the third best defenseman on your team, or the guy that anchors your second pair, not the guy that you look at is Mr. Fix It for everybody. I mean, God, like. It is very telling how the least blue line has been over the past five years of how quickly we all fell in love with Simone Benoit. Yeah. Right. And that's not his fault. Obviously he did nothing but take advantage of an opportunity that was there for him. Super telling that a guy found off the scrap. He'd be going, Oh, my God, Justin Hall. Look at Justin Hall and go. Oh, my God. I mean, again, like your mileage may vary, but those go kill penalties for this team for a long time. You look at him as a rock solid defender. He's on the red wings now. Mm hmm. Okay. And there are a couple of different hinge points. The most significant of which obviously is Jake Muzzin and him getting hurt. Well, and it's I was thinking about that a lot with the with the echolm of the doll with the Oilers run like take advantage of this guy. Well, it's there. Because once he stops being him now, Evan Bouchard becoming this maybe changes the math just a hair. But yeah, that's that's all I could think of because once you took out think about the conversation you're having at the about the Oilers blue line before they made that trade. Two years ago, right? We're going out and getting economic completely reset everything. You get the adults in the room and I don't think the leaks have lacked for adults in the room, but they've lacked for the super solid responsible guy that you could just trust. And I mean, and this is not even what we're talking about. But then you throw in the. Is it not lost on everybody else that the second Jake Muzzin went away? That was when it's like we got to get a vocal leader. We got to get a loud guy in here. Didn't work. So you lost that element of it as well. You know, I think we're going to get a little bit of a look at what's going on. You know, I think we can help that, you know, one of their homegrown. Defencement turned into a top four guy. Whether it be Travis German raspous Andy and Timothy Lillegrine. Nope. Can't do it. I think. No, I think. Well, hey, if you know what Sandy and turned into our Savior, you stink out. So yeah, that's true. Worth while selection. I'd say. All right. Speaking of the future of a franchise, Raptors made their pick at number 19. We'll talk about Jacoby Lillegrine. Next is the fan morning show continues. Ben and his Brent Gunning Sports at 590, the fan. Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL. The J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Switch building. Next is the fan morning show continues. Ben and his Brent Gunning Sports at 590, the fan. 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