to say thank you for that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Good morning Joe sports at five nine of the fan been in the spring gunning so. That's a hockey news outside of the NHL as well yesterday. So John Cooper was announced as the next head coach of team Canada for the upcoming four nations Cup, which is like right around the quarter of February. Yeah happening. We're going to get an announcement of what the first six players on the roster. And he's running out like all days the last day of the month. Oh my God, we have a new lead tomorrow. We get to each give our best six guys can't wait. So John Cooper, I'm joking. No, no, no. John Cooper. Like he I guess they're just of the opinion that there's no screw up he could have at the four nations Cup that would keep him from being the head coach of the Olympics. He's been named the head coach for both. Do you understand? I think that's general operating procedure. I mean, not to compare hockey Canada to Canada basketball, but it's like, yeah, you want continuity. I don't think you want. I think you want to in theory, you would love that team to look almost identical if it performs well. Yeah. And he was originally going to be the head coach of Canada's Olympic team in Beijing. Remember when they were going to go? Even though there was a pandemic. I remember and then they weren't allowed to go. Couldn't go. No. So he it makes all the sense in the world that he would be renamed head coach of team Canada. But Paul Maris is now like the reigning Stanley Cup champion head coach. John Cooper's lightning team lost to the Leafs in the postseason for God's sakes. Yeah. Okay. And that was two years ago. They lost it with the eventual Cup champs this year. But yeah, like the the window of their dynastic run. If we can call it that, I think it's pretty close. You can win a couple of picks and you appear in three straight. That's like a lot of modern day dynasty. Yeah. There's a fair way to put it. Anyways, but he deserves this opportunity because of him being John Cooper and reaching the heights that there are to reach in this sport. I mean, at some point, though, doesn't Paul Maris get his shot because I mentioned the length and breadth of his career. Second most games coached in NHL history, only behind Scotty Bowman. First and losses. But fourth and wins. And now he's he's been he's been he has his bona fides. He has his cup. Yep. He's probably a Hall of Famer now. Yes. You know what is a his international experiences? You told me this and it is hilarious. He is the assistant coach to Ralph Krueger for Team Europe at the World Cup. That's it. That's all we're talking about with primaries. Finalists. Yeah. Good for them. Lost in the best two of three in the weirdest tournament in the history of mankind. I did not remember that that was the format. Yeah. OK. Good for him. Coaching copitar. But no, he's got to be the next one, right? Like he's got and I don't know if they've announced the staff around John Cooper. Is it like insulting to Paul Maris as the reigning cup champion to be an assistant on that? I'm sure he would answer the bell. Yes. If he was asked to. Yes. It's not no. This isn't insulting to Paul Maris. The job that you do coaching team Canada is very, very different than the job you do coaching the Florida Panthers. The job John Cooper did coaching the Tampa Bay Lightning is much, much closer to what it is to coach team Canada than what Paul Maris did with the Florida Panthers. The Panthers, I do not begrudge them. I begrudge them for winning the cup because no one in Florida cares about it. They keep having to be reminded what it is. But when you look at that team, it's not a team laden of superstars. Barkov is their best guy and he's in. He's a transcendent player, but he's not Conor McDavid. He's not Sydney Crosby. He's not Nathan McKinnon. And to my like, I'm sitting here trying to rack my brain, like who's the biggest star Paul Maris has ever coached. And I don't say that to me, like he'd have a problem with it. But coaching a team that you squeeze the absolute most of and not that they're not going to try to do that with team Canada. But it's very different than taking a team that is nothing but first line studs left, right and center, literally. And then on both sides of the blue line as well, it's just a completely different challenge. So I think the other part of this that goes into it is, I mean, they're probably already going down this road with Cooper. They were already there. I think Maris is to a certain extent, a victim of his own circumstance here in that he was a little busy. I don't think they were going to call him last week to say like, Hey, do you want to coach that and not that he would have begrudge that, but you know what he would have said? Can you not right now? A little busy. So I think there's 1% of that. But mostly it's a different job, like Mike Babcock and I know persona and on grata now, but you know what he did with those wings teams just coached Hall of Famers left, right and center. Guess what he did with team Canada coach Hall of Famers left right and center. It's a different job. Maris will, if he wants to be, I would be floored if he's not a part of this staff. But the idea that he had to be the head coach because he won the cup with a roster that I mean, just passport wise, but also playing style is not going to resemble team Canada remotely. I don't think Maris would have been a bad choice, but I think this is far, far from an insult or the wrong choice or a slap in the face or anything like that. This is rough for Lee fans in this respect. Oh, okay. So I enjoy as a member of the media listening to John Cooper's media availabilities, but I can understand how it would irk many a Leaf fan when he took to a microphone in those series and talk about how great the Leafs were and playing his mental head games or whatever whatever whatever whatever. Same with Paul Maris. I ain't rolling my eyes, but both guys have now that it's hard to question them right like they get to do whatever they want. Yeah. In the media well, one, Paul Maris, his post winning the cup media tour has been unreal. Yeah. And you'd have to be God, I'm a cynic. Yeah, I have a by of a article as well. It's just hard for me to be cynical about what Paul Maris is putting forth totally into the public sphere since he won his first Stanley Cup and John Cooper's the head coach of team Canada. So you can't question him. You have to respect him when he when he steps into Scotia Bank Arena and and when he says whatever he says, I you don't know. I like I just look at like John Cooper. It's it's no different than I'll feel about Austin Matthews playing for America. It's actually like just the inverse. It's like cut ties. Good luck. Don't get don't get hurt and don't win too much is all I want to tell him. And with John Cooper, it's the exact opposite. It's like, Hey, good job. I'm thrilled. You're on our side. Like I I don't look at it is I get annoyed with Cooper in the silver tongue and I've actually been somebody who said I don't know that it would have worked in this market because I think he almost like welcomes too much attention with that. Maybe I'd be wrong about that conversation for a different day. But I can so especially with a coach like I could so easily park that that it doesn't kind of irk me in the same way as it as like I said, like when Austin Matthews is inevitably going bar down on like Aidan Hill or whoever our goalie is like that's going to hurt so much more than me having to pull for John Cooper. Does it change the dynamic of when the lightning and the Leafs play or when the lightning play your team that is full of Canadian players who are vying to be a part of this team. And I would say at the very best, like Morgan Riley is like a fringe candidate to be on Team Canada Mitch Marner. I've been trying to train him to Russia for a goal or so. I mean, does that change the dynamic that now like and he's not the guy making all the decisions and yeah, there's a Doug Armstrong's tippy top of the pile there as far as the decision making, but it's a collaborative effort. But no doubt like his course opinion is going to have some sway. Does that change the dynamic when, you know, you see these two division rivals play during the regular season next year, especially leading up to the decision of what the final roster will be for the Four Nations Cup in February and then beyond that the Olympics two years after that. This is a complete demarcation from the point you asked me, but I think it's close enough that you'll appreciate me bringing it up. I actually think the way more interesting thing is if we have a like Steve Eiserman Martin St. Louis situation here with Stephen Stan. Yeah, it was a hundred percent thing. That's the only thing like well, and it's twofold. Like stamco's can very well be on team Canada. I am sorry. I was a bad Canadian of me. I haven't put together my list yet. Right. But he very well can be that, but he could also be a bubble guy and not be there. He also might not be on the lightning next year like the complications of all of that. That is my favorite part of all like we're going to just talk about like, I know we want to make everything about the Leafs and Lord knows I want to make everything about the Leafs. But the idea that for the second time in a day or like basically one decade later, it's not the same franchise. It's not the GM though. It's the coach, but it's the exact same chef's gifts. Give it to me. I mean, it's not going to be the number one talking point when they talk contract this off season. It's already happened. But like it's is it is the specter raised at all? I would bet that there's at least a comment made between Stephen Samco's representatives and the Tampa Bay Lightning if I'm so rounds team Canada. If I'm the lightning, I'm going into Samco's phone and like deleting Cooper's number from it. It's like he's trying to talk to him about it. He can't be reached. Yeah, no, I my favorite subplot. I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good to have best on best back until we see that which should be very good American team play in reality next February. Might not like it so much. All right, let's talk to Greg Wachinski, ESPN senior writer cohost of the Draw Podcast. How's it going, Greg? I appreciate you giving some heads up in context to your Canadian listeners at the Americans are coming and the marches on and we have like 10 goalies more importantly. Can we have some? But you guys, but you guys have a goalie now. I mean, like if if there's like a few takeaways from the Oilers defeat. Oh, no. If that's too skitter, baby, skitter's a money goalie. Come on. I mean, I saw the same Reinhardt goal and it was a 57 goal score. But like also could have stopped it. I honestly, I think they're going to just not overthink this and say, yeah, the Golden Knights just allow the least shots. Let's let Aidan Hill and Logan Thompson do this thing. Honestly, it's and I'll just give you this because I think you'll appreciate it. I've been telling everyone this. I don't know how this works regarding like passports and international law. And this one's particularly tricky right now, but Canada must trade Morgan Riley to Russia for a goalie. They need a little help line. We need attendee. I don't know how that works. And you know, I don't think Morgan Riley would be on board quite frankly, but that is what needs to happen. I'm just wish I'm sure you echo it. It's just we're so excited about the draft and everything that's happening, but I can't help but think about best on best finally returning here. I mean, it's a it's a grand tradition on free agent day for Canadian television networks to take about an hour to break down the roster for team Canada. So, you know, like it's something I've witnessed for the last at least 10 or 15 years. So what we're doing right now, I think it's totally in keeping with what this week gives us this hockey fans. So, just kind of talking about, you know, this is kind of dovetails into the numbers that the Cup final did in terms of, you know, being one of the most watched games in American history in terms of what what it did in the States. How do you think kind of best on best and, you know, I don't want to go as far as to say like the NHL had a had a moment. I just watched a video of the Panthers walking around with the cup and nobody even stopped the car to let them across the streets. I don't want to know how much it took hold, but what does this do? The idea that you had a massive cup final rating and you throw it in with we're going to get a return of best on best. Americans maybe get introduced to Austin Matthews as someone they should care about. Like, is it fair to say that we could be on the verge of hockey kind of having a little moment here, Wish? Sure. And, you know, I think I think the takeaway from the ratings was that there's extremely large interest in watching Conor McDavid. I think I think one of the things very good. I like watching him too. He's great. Yeah. He's very entertaining. I think one of the things that we were able to do as a network is, is, you know, take on the, um, the, the, the, the rights package to all the games. So essentially, if you have the FBI and you watch Conor McDavid whenever you'd like, and the numbers internally for us showed that a lot of people were searching out Edmonton oiler games on ESPN+ because they wanted to watch and play it. And I think that carried over to this rating. And obviously, when you go six or seven games and you're watching a potentially historic comeback that plays into it too. But to your point, like, now, now McDavid is in the pantheon and then McDavid is nominated for an SB. Like, like, like, like, McDavid is, is on the radar for American sports fans. And so when you have that, and then you have the one thing that hockey has always been able to sell, which is Canada versus the US, um, I mean, then, then, then you're really cooking. I mean, to me, like, this entire tournament, um, although it's going to be fun and, and it's going to produce some interesting hockey, especially since it's going to be in season, is set up to give us that one Canada versus US game in prime time on a Saturday night. I mean, like, that is it. And, and it's going to be awesome because we waited forever to see the use two generations clash and it's going to be awesome. Yeah, those are all good factors and definitely seriously contributing. I do wonder, like, the fact that the NBA finals kind of stunk and it happened so long ago, does that impact also the amount of attention that it's not just ratings, but like, attention and going on Twitter and seeing the number of people that were excited for Monday's game seven. I mean, there's so many circumstances, but I'm like, I'm trying to figure out if there's something the NHL can take from this series and apply it going forward. Like, is there a lesson to be learned there? Is like, there are a scheduled tweak they can make as far as when the cup finals are taking place to separate themselves from the NBA that that they can maybe use moving forward? I just think it's like part of the wave, man. Like, I think that the ratings across the board have been, you know, trending up. I think, you know, as hockey fans are witnessing that, you know, like, at least 70% of the league, all having young star players and their rosters, you can say are marketable. The way the game is played is exciting. It's just a lot of fun. I mean, like, I think, I really, I don't think that this says, I don't think this is a one off. Like, I feel like this is part of an overall trend in popularity. And, look, you know, the thing we're leaving out of this is, and I know that we joked about, like, nobody recognizing that you could check in the family cup, walking across the street to the beach yesterday. But I do think that there was a certain amount of acknowledgement from hockey fans about the Panthers, too. I mean, the run that they went on last year with the win over Boston and the some of the personalities they have on the team, the edge was with which they play. They were a good foil for McDavid and dry-cidal. And I think people were just generally excited for a final that they knew was going to be pretty well played. Yeah, and this isn't like, you know, college basketball or college football of the 90s. Like, coaches don't sell the sport, but God, if anyone ever has, like, Maurice breaking through, I saw his interview with SVP and obviously everybody, you know, has fallen in love with that speech he gave and referencing his dad. Like, it's just a very easy kind of story to to grasp hold of. All right. Enough talking about hockey and the way it's growing. Let's talk about some actual hockey here. There have been two massive guy or massive stories of players with one year left on their deal in dry cidal and marner. We can't stop talking about them. The thing I keep wondering is, why aren't we talking about Miko Ranton? Like, here in Toronto, there's been so much talk about will marner get moved? What does an extension mean? If dry cidal goes first, does that box marner in in terms of what he could get? But the guy I think is actually like the way closer comparable is Miko Ranton in there. He's a 50 goal score. He's had a hundred points. He's won his cup and he can actually get a raise that only pays him. He can take a two or three million dollar raise and still only be an eleven, eleven and a half million dollar player. How do you think like, again, there's been so much focus on dry cidal and marner. But if an extension comes for Ranton in this offseason and soon, how do we think that affects the other two guys? Well, obviously, it affects the price for both of them. I mean, like, I don't think it's any mystery why he hasn't gotten spoken about as much as the other two. Last time I checked, Denver is not Ontario or Alberta. And I think that's probably one reason. I think the other reason too is that the assumption has always been that he can stay. I think he's in a good situation with the winning organization, playing often with one of the best players in the world. And there isn't all this hand-ringing about, well, you know, maybe we need to move them in order to satisfy seven or eight of the roster spots or, you know, maybe he wants to get out of McKinnon's shadow and go, you know, be a star somewhere else, which is sort of the dry cidal narrative. But, no, he's going to get his and then there's always going to be a trickle down effect to other players. But, you know, the thing is that, you know, maybe maybe marner gets impacted by it in some way to shape or form. I think, I think "Drycidal" if you ever hit the market is, isn't one of one. Like, like, that is a franchise player. That is the biggest reagent maybe we've ever seen hitting the market and, you know, I'm sure there are teams already getting their house in order with the idea that they could maybe take a run at this guy after next year. Oh, yeah, I've seen some stories like coming out of Boston. They were like doing this in February like, the drycidal will chase for two years from now. I'm like, please, please, God, no, I can't, I, I can't do this. You know, you, you mentioned, you, you hinted out of there the idea of "Drycidal" wanting to get out of McDavid's shadow. That is about the least NHL ideal we have, but I don't think it's an unfair one to bring up. Do you give that much credence? How true do you think that is? I mean, he had the quote. I forget exactly what it was. I think it was last year about, you know, I'm going to do what's right for me and Connor's going to do what's right for Connor. That certainly doesn't sound like we'll keep the band together at all costs. How much do you think that really does kind of weigh into the conversation there is drycidal being a McDavid shadow or if he, whether or not he gets his proper do? I think being around the team for a little bit, I first saw their friends like they've whatever competitive, you know, jealousy or whatever that maybe existed back in a day. I don't think it's, it's, it's there anymore. I think, you know, drycidal wins awards, McDavid wins awards. They're both in this to try to want to come together and genuinely have, you know, positive feelings for each other. You know, I talked to drycidal after they lost the cup and they called McDavid the best player ever having a hockey and, and was generally McShad for Connor having won the MVP in a losing effort. I think, I think for me, it was drycidal. It's probably more about money that he might be able to get from from places and it's much more probably about I've, if they don't win next year, a sense of, I've run this back, you know, nine, 10 times with the same team and got knocked out in the results. So maybe for the better bit of my career in chasing a championship, I need to do something else to be a possibility. But then, then again, me and Merrick both heard independently that he might want to go play for the German owner in Santa's Day. Like that, that's what the, that's what the 200 hockey men are also saying, which in case would not be the, I want to chase the championship mantra, I don't think. Marner and drycidal. What better tandem to build around? They could entice them. They go trade for Marner now. Then you could sell it to drycidal. Please play into my fantasy here, wish, please. Yeah. No. No. Right. No. No. Okay. Well, you know, they're not going to trade. I mean, they want to extend Marner because he had a cup of coffee with Craig Ruby. Like, I'm following this tangentially from from afar. I know the story always changes. I was, I was joking with somebody during the final or about like how here in the U.S. it's a constant barrage of Zach Prescott, of Dak Prescott takes. Yeah. And how? And how on? Yeah. And for you guys, it's Marner. Like, you can't, you can't, we can't go 10 minutes without talking about much Marner just like when you're trying to get it's like, even in like something about Caitlin Clark, it'll be like, is she the Dak Prescott? Yeah, it's like crazy. No, it's a good tease. I want to hear that segment. The, the take was that I had, if I recall, it was like a hundred takes ago. But yeah, when, when he was having coffee with Craig Berube, that it was like, Craig Berube, you can be the next head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, but you have to break the news to Mitch Marner that he's out. Like that's, and that was, they're in a public space. They're having coffee and he was breaking up with him. Um, so you talked to Leon Dreyseld, did you ask him what the hell happened to him during the Cup final? Because like, I guess he was injured, but can we hear about the injury that held them to three points and no goals during the final? Those are usually things for breakdown day versus right after the, the playoff elimination. Those are, that's usually the order of the things. I've covered the Rangers a lot in the last couple of years, and that's always the same for like, they get eliminated. Everybody's very angry. Chris Crider gives his interview where he's, you know, speaking at a, at a 0.1 decibel level and, and then you go and you talk to all the boys in the locker room a couple of days later and it's like, oh yeah, I had, you know, what am I long to sell out on the, on the ice through, you know, it's like, you find all this stuff. So we'll find out what's going on. I mean, there's that, there was a report yesterday that, um, the Connor might need some sort of surgery for an abdominal, uh, issue and that Dreyse was dealing with a broken finger. Like, there's just going to be a ton of stuff that comes out about these guys and, and you know, I imagine if there, if there is stuff about about Connor needing surgery and then accomplishing what he did in the, in the playoffs, I mean, maybe that'll convince the people who think that, uh, he shouldn't win the consplant that maybe he deserved it. I don't know. Is that a strong contingent? Because they like, yeah, I almost swept the, the voters, right? There's only one consmite trophy voter that didn't vote him number one on, on their ballot. Like, I don't know. Maybe we're in our Canadian bubble. I haven't heard that too much. I, I, I, and the feedback I got from a lot of people when those votes came out was that Ryan Clark is the only smart one. I love Ryan. I, I, I, respectfully disagree. I think David was the MVP. But like, um, no, I, you know, it's the usual thing of you don't give it to a losing teams player. I mean, that's just sort of a dogmatic thing. And I can relate to that. You know, as a guy who has said that you should win the heart trophy if you don't, if you don't make the playoffs. I mean, some people just have a, have a, have a worldview and they're not going to bend it for, for a performance like this. And then, you know, I think there was a lot of people that looked at the last two games of the final and said, you know, you didn't do anything. You know, and Mike, my counterpoint is, well, those those games only mattered because he posted back to back four point nights. Um, so I don't know. It's, it's, there are people that don't believe that he should have won it then, and, and believe it should have been Bob or Barkov. And, and it does remind me of, you know, being a double fan in 2003 and making arguments for, you know, a few guys because you can't believe that you dare, you know, want to, want an MVP in a losing effort. It happens. Um, I think, but I think, you know, given everything that he accomplished in the entirety of the playoffs, it's hard to imagine not getting them the cons tonight, especially actually pushed it 7 to 7 games. It's a good thing the voters didn't have the option of giving it to Maurice because it felt like if the votes would have been tabulated after that speech, unanimous. Like, you know, like, you know, they would have, they would have allowed more voters to, to have voted for him. Yeah. It was great. I mean, you know, I, he's, he was very funny. He, one of my favorite things about the night they won the cup was, uh, you know, the boys are all celebrating on the ice. And at some point, you have to go and talk to the media. And so he comes into this room and it's like seven reporters and everybody else is on the ice or the writing or whatever. And he just holds court with us for 20 minutes. That's where he, you know, compared him, compared himself to an adopted pet in a Sarah McLachlan, uh, song video and, you know, he told an amazing, I don't know if you heard the story he told, but he told an amazing story about walking into the practice rink the morning of game seven and right in the middle of the bank of televisions that they have in their locker room was, I think it was our network, uh, talking about whether or not if the Panthers lose, it will be the greatest collapse in the history of sports. And like, he's freaking out. He's like, he's like, you know, I'm in my 50s. I can handle this, but, uh, I don't want a guy in his 20s walking in and thinking it's not only the cup on the line, but also I'm going to be a subject of ridicule for the rest of my life. He's like, he's like, he's like rushing around and getting someone to change the televisions in the locker room before the boys get in, so they don't have to see this. So it's, it was really good. He's a very entertaining guy. Yeah, no, I, I can't roll my eyes at him anymore. It was just, it was too good. Everything he said, it was pitch perfect. I can't right now, but talk to me in November, and then I'll find a way to figure it out. Wish, uh, great to talk to you. Thanks for this, buddy. It is Greg Wushinsky, his band, senior writer, co-host of the drop podcast. And now all I can picture is, we've all, well, I actually go through this sometimes with my TV every, and two weeks and here stops working and I have to go to Santos and then he has to go to somebody else and, or it's like when you go to a bar and you're like, hey, can we get the game on this? And nobody ever knows where the remote is. Some, like, they either immediately know and the issues rectified before you even get the words out of your mouth or you just have to leave because it's truly never going to happen. And that's all I can picture is Maurice, like, running around looking for some lackey who's like, where's the remote? What box does it go to? Where am I supposed to point this thing? I love it. I love also living in a world in which he hadn't contemplated that element of it. Like, he understood like it, it had only happened once in finals history, but like, I love the idea of him like, well, that would be bad, but at least it's happened once. But then realizing, oh, wait, that, oh, people are having the correct take that, yeah, the 42 series meant nothing and was 100 years ago in the middle of a world war and that this would have been way more significant than the biggest collapse in sports history. And in that moment, like hours before game seven coming to that realization. It's making me think of the story of Scotty Scheffler, like the morning or the night before the masters, the first win of him like crying in his kitchen to his wife being like, I'm a choker, I can't do this. And then he's like, don't worry. Camp Smith's actually a choker and no one's going to come within a sniffy and then he just, now he just wins all the time. But only internments that don't count according to you, Ben Dennis. That's right. Yeah, I just wanted to get your take out there for you. No, no, no, he's fraud. I love it. Have a take. Space speaking of, of just winning. That's all the Blue Jays do. As far as I, as far as I know, I just woke up from a coma like 12 hours ago. Undefeated on June 25th in the year 2024. All I've ever seen in the last, you know, 18 hours is the Toronto Blue Jays winning baseball games. Try to run that winning streak to two as we talk to Keegan Matheson next of MLB.com. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Dennis Brent Gunning sports at 590, the fan. The best Blue Jays show out there. Period. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All good. Season back on the rails. Great. Not quite. Yeah. Uh, fan morning show continues. Ben Dennis Brent Gunning sports at 590 the fan. Blue Jays trying to take the series though against the division rival tonight in Boston against the Red Sox. Let's talk to Keegan Matheson. Blue Jays reporter for MLB.com. How's it going, Keegan? I'm doing well, guys. I'm almost emotional. What an intro. Wow. Just it's, it's incredible that the Toronto Blue Jays won a baseball game. Something that had not done in the previous week. Anything is possible. There's still quite bad. Um, yeah. What one win does not a season change for me? That's just for me. And it's hard to imagine a scenario where they rack up a bunch of wins before the deadline because like what is the underlying stat? Like if you were going to be the biggest optimist Keegan and you're like, well, you know what? This team is due for a run. What is the thing you'd point to? There's like, to me, there's one potential thing. It's one guy. It's like, Boba shed is not going to be this bad forever. But it's like, I think George Springer might be cooked. I think Justin Turner, the second half of last season indicated that the 39 year old. Yeah, you can't rely on him for too much offense. Vlad is like kind of lad. You wanted to hit more home runs. I kind of think this is what he is. Like where's the indication that there's some insane run coming for this Blue Jays team? Any optimism has to be based in things that are going terribly. So I don't even know if it qualifies anymore. It's right. It's all about exactly that. It's about a Boba shed can't continue at this opiate. George Springer ideally is not going to drop down to a 500 OPS and maybe he gets back to that 650 700 range. Cool. Vlad right now honestly is as locked in as I've seen in a long time. The contact he's making is ridiculous. Like he is on top of his stuff right now. And I think he is going to go on a bit of a streak here. I really think he is hot. He's going to start breaking out a bit here soon. But it's man one win that feels like 10 wins for them. It was getting pretty tense around this team. Understandably so because man you've got New York coming up. You've got Seattle more difficult series. It's not going to get any easier and getting one from Boston's at least to start. It was a messy game. Next time Brian Bayo pitches I think I need to take the day off. I don't enjoy watching him play the sport. But the Blue Jays did and my goodness they they needed that one. That's good. I often don't hear just such a side swipe of a player from a big J journalist of I don't like it. I don't enjoy watching him play the sport. But I like it. Have a have a stance on some. I I don't totally disagree either. You know the thing we've been looking at with this Jay's team is what's the best course of action between now and the deadline. And they don't mean from a front office standpoint of should they get out early and make their moves. I mean we've been have been yelling about that for months already. And I don't think it's happening anytime soon. But is there a world where they perform too well between now and the deadline that they find themselves getting tricked into thinking this team is something it isn't I personally I'm not too worried about that. I don't think that's going to happen. But if Bachett's back and he starts hitting and Vlad continues what he's doing and the pitching is as good as we think it can be. There's a world where this team performs well enough that maybe they can talk themselves into not selling in a way they should be. What is the actual kind of best case scenario for the Blue Jays between now and the deadline? Getting stuck in the middle is the worst place to be because I think the expanded wild card guys for all of its beauty it can trick teams into thinking they're something they're not. And being close to that third wild card spot it can convince teams of oh okay we're in this we're competing. It can allow teams to compare themselves to other competitors in the third wild card spot instead of comparing themselves to the Dodgers and the Phillies. That's who you have to compare yourself to. Are you going to beat the actual good teams at the end of the line here? You got to be realistic with yourself and the Blue Jays right now they're not in that conversation. I think obviously with where they've been the last week how they played the season something would need to change significantly and shockingly for this to be a buyer for the Blue Jays to really push in. But the realities of their roster with Vlad Yimbo having another year left with Bassett and Gossman the Rios this rotation having some run left. It's about finding the right type of retool. Is there a way that you can load up a bit for next year while also maybe grabbing a prospect or two along the way? It's kind of a more of a step back instead of totally selling off because I also understand that there are jobs on the line involved here too. There are people who do not want to wave a white flag for the next two to three years. You want to keep hope alive for next year for baseball reasons and professional reasons. So I think the sweet spots realistically speaking guys is finding a way to take one step back that's the room for two steps forward next year. But man you're trying to thread a needle there. You've got to avoid getting stuck in the middle. That's such a bad place to be. Yeah. I think there's a lot of revisionist history that that exists amongst people in the city when it comes to 2015 and they're like, Well, that Blue J's team like Alex Anthobble is what a great job he did throughout the entirety of his tenure as the general manager of the Blue J's. No, there's a reason why Mark Shapiro was hired when he was hired. It was because they had to make a move there because he was he was gone. He was finished and it was like kind of craven the way he traded away all the future assets that turned into not much and it was yeah, it was a great idea because that team was good. It was awesome what they did upon receiving the help that they did when they were 50 and 51 and at the trade deadline. But yeah, that's an interesting component here because on the one hand it's like the Blue J should obviously sell this team whatever fake run they have in them and the fact that even after this horrible losing streak, I guess you can convince yourself that a third wildcard spot is achievable. There it's in their best interest to sell off the pieces. But if you do that, you're admitting Ross Atkins that you've done a horrible job and you're basically saying fire me, please. And then if you're saying that, again, if you're the people that are in charge of him having a job, how are you letting him make those decisions before July 30th? That is a real head spinning scenario. Explain it to me, Keegan. And even above a step above all of that, you're saying to all of the people who just spent probably a bit more money than I have on those fancy seats at the renovated Roger Center. 400 million to them. Hey, come on in. Enjoy the product. There's a business component to all of this as well. That's not as beautiful and romantic as the baseball side. But when you put all that money into a stadium and try to sell those very expensive seats, it's not likely you're going to tear down the next year. And that's why the professional, the organizational side, comes into all of this for me, is because you don't have that patience. I think if this was a brand new front office, guys, and there was some built in patience, this is a good time to get maximum value for some assets who have control beyond this year, a more significant sell off and really resetting this organization. But like you said, a front office is not going to do that when they're in this type of situation right now. With how things have gone, that would be admitting defeat. And if you're this front office, you want one more crack at it. You want next year, you want to try to retool. Now, is that going to be swinging back in the direction of offense? I mean, we're on pivot number four at this point, my goodness. But there are so many components on the business side in terms of jobs in the front office. A lot of components that are not just baseball when we get into this. Yeah, and I know it's hard. And that's going to be a factor whether Blue Jays fans want it to be or not. But let's just for the purposes of thought experiment here, Keegan, take it out of it. Like if you were, OK, I'm handing the brains to you. You own the Blue Jays today. Wow. Um, what is the best way forward for this team? Because it's hard for me not to look at the difference between the roster. Like the best potential pivot and off season they could have going into 2025 and look at the massive gulf that exists between them and the Orioles and the Yankees, which are the true teams that you should be measuring yourself against. Not the third wild card in the American League and saying, I'm sorry, like trading Danny Jansen and you say Kikuchi and Jimmy Garcia. That's not getting us to a place that we're close enough. Honestly, as hard as it is, it's it's bow and Vlad time to go. If we're not signing up to extensions with them for the next decade, and I understand why it can't happen because of the things you said, because of this front office. But if I'm running this team, is it not the best way forward to just say, well, if you're not going to do it, then you're gone because this is the best interest of this baseball team. If the purpose is to win baseball games to do a hard reset here. Especially like you say, but when you got to look at the Orioles, you got to look at these teams around the league and say are how are we stacking up against them in a seven game series? Do you like the answer right now? I don't think so. So if you are looking at it from a purely baseball standpoint, that is when you start to open up to Vladi to bow to Chris Bassett, who has one year of control left and who is a very good pitcher, a very reliable pitcher in Major League Baseball. If you're making a big trade, you want to know what you're getting back. You know who you got in Chris Bassett. That opens it up to Kevin Gossman, who my goodness, I don't know if that would be the best look dealing him midway through his contract, but you're looking at value across your roster and Kevin Gossman as a guy who can be an ace of a staff. You don't go as far as a burritos or anything like that, but the Blue Jays do have a lot of these assets, Chad Green being another with one year of control left after this. So much of this goes just one more year down the road and the Blue Jays need to consider that 18 months from now. Are they going to go quote on quote on next year because if they go into next year, that's the do or die year trying to do this again. If it doesn't work, you are totally hard resetting this organization, but the Blue Jays in the past, maybe the best way to say it is that they've been a team who likes to get their business done a year in advance. A lot of their acquisitions, whether it be big like a burritos or small like a Whitmera field, they're getting one trade deadline or one season ahead of what a potential need is going to be. They're not waiting until they have to do something. And if there's ever an opening to do that on a larger scale, goodness, it's one month from now at this deadline. Yeah, I think that's fascinating. You know, this somehow, honestly, I didn't consider it until not that I haven't thought about Kevin Gosman. I don't know why you just simply mentioning his name triggered this thought for me, but the idea of what dealing him actually be something that could be a shining light for future free agents and saying, hey, we're not going to hold you like if you sign up to be a Bluejay and you, unlike George Springer, sorry, still have something left in the tank that other teams would want. We're not going to hold you hostage here on a deal trying to make something work or grid our teeth and find a way like I can you see a world where them moving on from Kevin Gosman and, you know, obviously the player would have to want to go about this. But read between lines, what he said, I think he wouldn't be all that upset about a new scenario. Can you see a world where them moving on from Gosman actually makes it kind of easier for them to pitch free agents in the future and saying that, hey, you're not going to be stuck here on a bad Bluejay's team. You're either going to be on a good one or we'll find a home for you. Depends a lot of the player and I can see a lot of players without be a bad thing, honestly. It's especially when you're looking at guys more into the late 20s and 30s if they have a family, if you're signing a five year deal, seven years like burrios, you're trying to set up and have your kids be in the same school for at least a few years, which is not easy as a ball player. For a lot of guys, I'd see that as something that might be a negative coming into Toronto. That's why you're careful about moving on from guys too early in this, even when you're looking at guys on one year deals, the Turner's, the Kermiers of the world. That's why you don't want to pull that trigger too, too quick on veteran guys, but someone on a longer term deal like Gosman. Now, if the player wants it, fantastic, every individual gets what they want, but a lot of guys coming in, I think that would be something that would make them a bit cautious. Yeah. You want to know that you're staying. I know that no movement clauses, no trades can come into effect there if you want one in your contract, but a lot of guys, especially when they have young families, I know God does, a lot of these pitching staff guys do. If you're signing that long term deal and you're buying that house instead of staying at the hotel or getting one of those furnished condos nearby, you want to stick around for most of it, if not all of it. So that can be a real individual thing, but that's in that can backfire. That can go both ways. Do you know if Justin Turner's wife has had their their child? Because I heard in a podcast that was the thing he wants a Canadian kid. Do you know if they've they've that the child has been born yet? I don't yet. I have not seen her recently. I overheard Turner doing a TV hit yesterday talking about her singing the anthoms at Roger Center recently. I haven't seen her recently, but man, that's smart. Yeah, I find it up. Get the Canadian citizenship. I love it. Yeah, and then hopefully at the world baseball classic and like, I don't know, whatever 20 plus years, we can have little little Turner. You can't be you can't be president. We're about to blow a case wide open. They're helping fund these contracts. Right. That's obviously yeah. No, no being president, but you do get to be the next generation's Freddie Freeman. Yeah, I'll be down with that. Last one before we let you go here, Keegan. So I mean, 2022 happened. Okay. It was really bad that the first number of months for Boboshette, he was hitting seventh in July. We're not even in July yet. He was so bad that John Schneider said enough. Good. Go to the bottom half of this lineup. And then from that point, almost exactly to the day that he started hitting seventh, he started hitting like he's capable of hitting once again became the best hitter as far as number of hits that he accumulated in the American League in 2022. Are we 100% sure that that's about to happen for Boboshette? Like I know the baseball reference page is what it is, but yeah, it's it's been quite bad. Are we 100% sure that at the end of the season, the baseball reference page will look like it has every other year of his career? This has been the biggest surprise of the year for me. And I was I was wrong on the chef this year. I really thought this was the breakout year where he gets some of those top 10 MVP votes. I really believe in that this year, because I believe in the shed as a player and you're being around him. I see what he puts into this and watching his at bats are, you know, I watch enough baseball and I can I can take at bats off. But I like to watch Bo take his APs. I think there's so much talent and style there and it just hasn't happened. It's surprised me. It's confused me at times. But you want to believe he's going to go on one of these runs, but pictures are good too. They're making adjustments too. He really needs to get that going soon. Nothing would be as important to this team as Bo getting back to that hitting 300 850 OPS guy at the top of the lineup. And then you can extend and expand the rest of that lineup. But man, going into the year, guys, I really thought this was the year that he goes absolutely wild and has that 900 OPS 30 home runs that season just has not happened. We've seen a lot of swings that are very uncharacteristic from him. You guys can picture them. The the whiffs where he's finishing with one hand on the bat, expanding the zone. I think George Snyder said it best so that the best way to say it is that his his gift is that he can get to any pitch. But that can also be a curse because then you're trying to get to any pitch. We haven't seen him hammering much over the heart of the plate. That's the key. It's absolutely in there, but the Blue Jays need to see it pretty soon. Yeah, I haven't seen it yet this season. Keegan, always a pleasure. Thanks, buddy. You got it, fellas, take care. You too, Keegan Matheson, mlb.com. Yeah, you know what? Boba Shet is hitting as far as OPS is concerned in the Blue Jays losses this season. I do not. So he's played 35 games. When they've lost, he's played 32 and they win. When they win, he's got an OPS 753, which is an ideal, but it's okay. It's above league average. When the Blue Jays lose, it's only about half of the games that he's played in because, of course, it was not present for the 7-game losing streak. It was on the injured list. Right. So there's proof of concept there. He's got an OPS of 487. Ooh. An OPS of 487. When the Blue Jays lose. And I do not believe one player makes a team or one transcendent Boba Shet season would have made that significant a difference in the Blue Jays record to this point. But it must be said, boy, it's at the tippy top of the list of reasons why the Blue Jays are where they are this season. They only have a few good hitters. He's one of them. If he's not hitting, they have less feel like it's just like it's very simple. Like, yes, he is one of the few guys that you expect to be good on this team with the bat in his hand and he just flat out hasn't been this year. Even if he has the amazing bowl month, he's going to need to string together, three of them, to get back to where he's been. And I'm not completely putting it past him, but I think what's way more likely is we get a snippet of that bachete and then some normalizing at some point here in between now and the end of the season. Like, I just think that's what's going to happen with him. So you outlined when you said day, the free agent thing and the implicit understanding will trade you away when the team stinks. That's what happened with Roger Clemens. Like, that was the Roger Clemens thing. Yep. They signed them to like, hey, Roger, you're Blue Jay. Muscle Bird. Be you. Yep. We'll win. If we don't win, we'll trade you away. Yeah. That's exactly what happened. This is one of the more embarrassing things of franchise history. So I think generally, yeah, when you're signing the player, I think you're an embarrassing franchise if like, that's the understanding that, hey, I don't come to please. No, no, please, please, come to the one of the biggest markets in North America with a brand new refurbished ballpark and all the accoutrement that we give to all our players. And also, you can force your way out if we think. I don't think that's the pitch. I think it is a nice little cherry on top of of an understanding that like, hey, look how this is played out with Gossman. I think I think it is a cherry on top. But I don't think in the pitch, you go like, hey, and obviously we're going to suck at some point in this deal and then we'll trade you away. Only that happens. But I think it's something an agent would more remind a player of than the Blue Jays would say themselves. I think Kevin Gossman wants to be a Blue Jays. It doesn't want to be traded. Like honestly, I believe that's the case for all these guys. I don't think anybody wants out. I think there's a reason why Justin Turner decided to be a Blue Jay part of it was money. And Kevin Kiermeyer wanted to be Blue Jay. Part of that was because he couldn't find another deal out there. But I think generally these guys don't want to be traded away the deadline. Uh, it's tough because this team stinks and they need to trade some guys away. The deadline. All right. We'll move back tomorrow to another edition of the fan morning show. Ben and his friend, Gunning, Sportsnet 5.9 in the fan. Good morning. (upbeat music) (dramatic music)
