>> I said it before and I'll say it again, Josh Santos is bringing an incredible 1999 music playlist to the docket today. If you're on podcast listener top, get up. Listen to us on the fan. I don't know what to tell you. You know what, you should definitely be getting up to watch her. I don't know how time zones work in France. Well, I could look it up. But whenever can -- >> Yeah, or some early stuff. >> Here's what I'm saying. Whenever Canada's basketball is playing, you better be watching. It's very possible this is the highlight of our sporting summer and the man who is helping put that team together joins us now. Rowan Barrett, general manager of the Canadian Men's National Basketball Team. Rowan, thanks for jumping on with us this morning. How you doing? >> I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me on. >> So first question for you is actually about a question we don't have to ask you. How excited are you that I don't have to do a whole interview and then at the very end be like, so we've got to talk about Andrew Wiggins. How nice is it that he's at camp, you've got your roster, not selected yet, but you have your camp roster there. How nice is it to just -- I imagine feel like, okay, we're really underway. All of this other stuff to a certain extent is behind us now. >> I think probably the best part for me is that our hopes are not simply around one player. I think that that's very important. I think we have a very strong pool of players now. We played without him last summer. We were able to have our best year in 86, 87 years. We started competing in the World Cup in 1950 and it was the first time on the podium. I think it speaks to the strength of our group to be able to do that without him. I do think it's good that our athletes, though, our players in our team want to welcome him also with open arms. I think that's very, very important. In my role, you can put whatever you want in place, but does it take? Will the guys be good with it? To a man, everybody said, hey, no, no, no. You've got to be here if you want to be here. I think it's good culturally. I think it's good competitively. I feel good about going to Paris here and our best for Ford. >> Yeah, buying at the Rowan obviously seems like it's paramount, especially if you're going to have success at the international level. That was part and parcel what I think you guys presented when there was sort of a bit of a shift in philosophy five years ago when you guys brought in Nick Nurse initially. But having those various pillars and commitment being such an important piece of all this, I guess off the back of what happened last year and the success that was had at the World Cup. How important is that continuity and that built in buy-in that exists with this group, a lot of these core pieces that are going to be present this time around as well, to have them be so committed and there's a natural, true genuine desire for them to rep the Maple Leaf. What does that mean and how does that add to this process and the preparation in trying to prepare for the first Olympic Games that Canada has participated in since 2000? >> Well, it's huge, right? Because now you're not starting from scratch. You have a way that you're playing. You have a good understanding around the core of your team and what it looks like in competition. What it looks like when the stakes get raised, what it looks like in the tournament when the competition level goes up as well, how your guys are going to respond. You already have some idea on how some things can work and some of the things you can do. That being said, there was still a distance between us and the gold medal. There was a little bit of distance there. We've got to figure out how to make up that distance, how to make those steps and how to grow from where we were. The result of that, we can't stay, we can't stand pat and go in with the same and just expecting that we're going to jump and leapfrog up the podium. So, evaluation, evaluating what we did last summer, it was clear, hey, defensively, we've got to grow, we've got to do some more things. That's kind of signaled the need to say, hey, let's bring in some more that we're outside of, the initial continuity group that we had. We can't change the whole entire team. We won't do that. But how do we add a couple pieces here or there that can maybe help us to move from the bronze level up to the gold bubble? It's challenging. It's not an easy thing, but our coach is charged with looking at some different things defensively to help with that as well as player personality impact on it. And once again, I can't say it enough. Our players, our players also are signaling the needs to this, right? Our players are saying, listen, bring me, guys, you know, they've been open, they've done it publicly without us with the media asking, and they've been like, yep, bring it on. And if we need more, if that's what we need to help us get to the top level, then bring it on, bring guys in, let's do what we do and put our best foot forward. And so I think we feel good knowing that we have some things at work. And I think we're tinkering now as we get into camp with, you know, what do we need to add, you know, what do we need to look at differently with the team we already had last year? Maybe some guys have grown over the last year, right? Coach is going to put them in deployment in a different way. And maybe that's enough. But if not, hey, we've got some other things going on here. You know, let's see what they look like in this area with guys that have a defensive profile, and see if we have to add to the group there. Okay, I was one thing I did want to touch on there because we know, we know talent's important. And it's great that we've now reached a point where this roster is going to be either completely comprised of NBA guys or mostly high, most of them will be NBA guys like they're we're talking about high level professionals here. But I didn't want to ask this question because I always find it curious. There's there's international basketball. It feels like it's vastly different than any form of basketball because, you know, we talk about how styles make fights. Well, that is really the embodiment of international basketball. How much of of what you guys are going to do or the process and even in the selection of players for training camp, how much consideration has been given to finding the right guys that play well in that environment compared to just saying, yeah, we're going to take the most talented guys like buying is important, but understanding how those attributes and skill sets translate, how vital has that is that in assembling a team that is capable of, you know, not just meddling, but actually trying to win a World Cup or in this case, an Olympic medal. Yeah, no, it's a great point you're making. It's a great question. I think the fact that we have some continuity is very important, right? Because you know that you have players that can play in FIBA, right? They can play when the games get the tightest when they get the hardest they can play. So that's really important going in. You're not you're not coming in blind, you know? I also think that we've got some players coming into camp that have a significant amount of experience in FIBA, right? As well, some that have played in FIBA for multiple years, some that are playing in the NBA that have played for us, you know, for significant amounts of time. So, you know, playing in FIBA is not unbeknownst to them. I've said it quite often that we're not just trying to build an all-star team, we're trying to build the best team. And as a result of that, you know, we have 26 players in the NBA, for example, you know, we only invited 12 of them, you know? We didn't invite, you know, you know, all the NBA players. We have, you know, a number of athletes that are coming over from Europe that are in this camp. And so for me, it's not about, you know, just picking the best players. If we were just picking the top players in our country, our camp would look different. The roster of players in the camp would look different. What we're looking for guys that specifically can impact one playing in FIBA, but two that can play in the system that we've created, and then third that can play and hopefully impact the areas that we believe now we need to grow in, you know, specific to that. So, you know, that's where the selection is come. And then, you know, now let's get into camp and everything can happen in camp. Let's make sure guys are healthy, you know? You know, there's something happening in someone's life, you know? Like, look, I feel, I breathe much easier when all the guys are in camp, you know, on the floor, right? And everything's good. I mean, I don't want to have to hold the vigil here, okay? But, you know, we always feel better once we actually see the guys there, you know, it taped up, ready to go, breathe in fire with the coach in tow. God, you got me fired up. Can I start? Can we start now? I know you want a full training camp. I know you need it, right? Honestly, like everybody does. But God, now I'm fired up. I just need the Olympics. Could you get them there today? Could they be in the gym today, Rowan? Rowan, this is what I want to ask you about. You know, obviously you have touched this. You know what it's like to be an Olympian. I have heard obviously so much excitement for our national team here. Just talking to people who basketball, quite honestly, is not always front of mind for them, especially at this time of year. The amount of excitement I have heard about this for our country's team is incredible. But you talk to people around the game. There is a belief that this could genuinely be the greatest international basketball tournament we've ever seen. What does it mean to the game of basketball to feel like, you know, forever? It was, hey, the states are going to show up and a bunch of people will play them and we'll see how the tournament goes. Now you've got all these stories of you. God, you're honest with the guy. Like, I don't want to sit here naming guys in countries. We could do it all day. But this isn't a story about one team or two teams. What's your just level of excitement? Remove the passport for a second just as a basketball fan for this tournament, Rowan. You know what? It's hard for me to remove the hat that I wear. You know, good. Good. I like that it's tattooed on there pretty good. Yeah. Very, very hard to do that. Like, look, 125 international players, a record, started the NBA season last year out of the 48, 450 guys, right? 125. Okay. 64 of those guys were in Europe. Okay. And the draft is next week and more common, right? It's late. It's late. And the reality is, as much as we need all these players, we need good players. You need continuity. You need that. There isn't a team that's winning the gold medal that doesn't have significant NBA presence on their roster. Okay. And so, yeah, more of the teams now have NBA players and not just one, you know, sometimes many, right? You know, you play, you play Australia, for example, they could have, you know, six, seven, eight, nine of them, right? And so it is, it's different than what it, what it used to be. It is going to be highly, highly competitive. And I think any type of shock factor that might have been there before when, you know, a team from wherever in the world is going to play, you know, against NBA players, less of that shock is going to be there now because they play against them every day, right? In the regular season. And so really, it's going to come down to, you know, not to, I mean, everybody that's in the Olympics watch it, but you know, now your system's got to be important, right? How you're deploying guys has to be important decision making during the game, changing your tactics is important. Having a roster that has the flexibility. Because look, when you, when you get into tournaments, you get into the deep waters, these, these teams are, they're going to be posing some real questions to you and challenges, real questions in those games. You know, you've got to do your best to try to create a roster that has the flexibility to answer those questions. And so, you know, that's kind of what we're looking at right now, trying to get ready, aware that this will be a very deep and competitive tournament. And look, if you're playing any, any game, right, this is what you want, you know, you want to play against the best, and you want to measure yourself, you know, against the best, and you want to try to overcome, you know, you know, the best that's out there. And so that, you know, that's the challenge that we have, working to the wards the top of that podium. Oh, that's awesome. Again, the last answer I thought fired me up as much as I could, but now I'm even more fired up again. Start the Olympics now. Rowan, awesome work you've done in the time since you've had this role kind of building it all. This feels like certainly a culmination, but we hope there's a medal at the tail end of it. Thanks so much for taking the time this morning and best of luck. Hey, thanks, guys. There he goes. Rowan Barrett, general manager of the Canadian men's national basketball team. Also want to let you know, tickets on sale now for the Canada basketball super fan send off. Get ready for an unforgettable afternoon on Saturday, July 6th at 3 p.m. At the Gold Ring Center for high performance sport tickets for the event started just $24 and we're on sale now at super fan send off.ca. Take advantage of a chance to cheer on your favorite Canadian senior men's and women's national team stars this summer in Toronto before they head to Paris. That's awesome. I joked like we should have a big blue madness. Kind of sounds like what that is. I also do wonder, you know, not about you. Like, do we have to get clearance for him? Does he own being a super fan? I don't know how that works. Just where my mind immediately goes off court, of course. I'm pretty sure there's some contractual things like that. Oh, that stipulate that he is the super fan for. Okay. Canada basketball and the Toronto Raptors, besides the point. Yeah. Um, nevertheless, boy, boy. Oh, that guy, that was, that was electric. Awesome. Oh, just I'm, I'm here not in my head like, yup. Damn it. Yep. Agreed. Yes. Yeah, more of that. Yes, more of that, Rowan. Love the energy. Love you. No disrespect to Jordy Fernandez. But you don't want to coach? You don't want to get in there? No, no, I like, I love the job Jordy. We had them on. I spent the entire feeble World Cup last summer. Just go, God, that's the guy. Can't coach the Raptors. That's all I did. The entire time. I just went, but the Raptors. Why can't he coach them? Yeah, he's busy. He's got a, he's got a big job himself now. And he is the head coach and the national team. And I can't wait. Like, I still got one more. One more golf major this summer. I mean, ecstatic for that. And, you know, like, then it's kind of possible. Honestly, those are like one and one a for me. The Blue Jays are an everyday experience every day. And this insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you could expect excellence online. And in the showroom visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com, joining us now, Ben Nicholson Smith, Sportsnet MLB insider Blue Jays reporter, as well as cohost of the at the letters podcast. And I've been told you can check out BNS's work on Sportsnet.ca as well as hearing more of him on the athletic podcast. That's how I was written in my lineup. That's why I said it's like, Benny, how are we doing this morning, bud? You're great. Thanks for the double info, Brian. Yeah, you know, your work is so good. I just want to alert people to it. And I don't know if you've heard, but Ben, Nichols Smith, cohost, the cohost, the at the letters podcast. You should check that out. Yeah, get in the hat trick of it. Why not? Ben, this Blue Jays team, it's been a, it's been an eventful season. I guess I want to start with a very just like fact based question for you. Who's just start the ball game tonight? It's got a big old TBD on that probable pitchers page. Yeah, I mean, I would fully expect it's Jariel Rodriguez. Yeah, he's, he's listed as TBD, but clearly has been working and preparing as a starting pitcher to change him to go apply four or five innings. And so, yeah, there's a small possibility that, you know, something could have shifted in the last 24 or 48 hours, but yeah, I would expect Jariel to be the guy. What are the expectations for him? I mean, this was a guy before the, the rehab assignment to Buffalo. I was super bullish on. I think a lot of people liked what they see. He is also in that perfect area or gray area where you don't know what he is. I can sit there and squint and see a starter if I want, but I can also see a high-ish leverage, multi-aining guy. Obviously, this team needs him to start right now, but if it was not about what's best for the Blue Jays, but it was about how to best get the best version of Rodriguez, what do you think he ultimately is best suited to do in the Major League spend? I think just given how hard it is to find starting pitching and to find, you know, reliable quality starting pitching, you've got to try and see if he can fill that role for you. And so, you know, setting aside where the Blue Jays are in this moment in time, I think it makes sense from what baseball ends just to give that a shot. Then if it's not working for whatever reason, whether it's, you know, his third pitch isn't quite there. The commanders default are any number of reasons that make it hard for pitchers to stay in that role. You do have someone who has this stuff to be a really effective late-ending high-leverage reliever. So that could be where he ends up in two, three years time. But for now, he's someone who's going to get that chance to pitch four or five innings at a time and give the Jays that more starter-like role. Ben, over to the other big story that's, you know, looming, heading into this ballgame tonight and in this series in Cleveland. Are we going to see Arelvis? Is it time for them to finally unleash this young man and allow him to start? Like, are we going to see in your estimation, Ben? Are we going to finally see the long-awaited Major League debut of Arelvis Martinez tonight with Carlos Carrasco on the hill for the Guardians? Yeah, I think today or tomorrow we will see him in the starting lineup. And I hope it's tonight because it's a really powerful bat. This is a guy who can hit the ball super, super hard, still so young, 22 years old, probably just up for a short period of time now until Boba Shat comes back. But as long as he's up here, you want to get him in there. And it's not just for his own development, but it's a team that doesn't have a lot of power right now, right? We've talked about that all season long. They really could use someone who can hit a three-run homer, hit a solo shot, whatever the case. And Arelvis Martinez definitely has that kind of upside, has more of a whole month than anyone in the organization, whether you're talking to Major Leaks, the minor leagues, his 16-year-old runs lead the way. So, yeah, this is someone who can help. And I do think we'll see you in the next day or two. Yeah, that's a great stat. It's it is kind of comical. Like, you can't help but kind of giggle at that. I mean, and I was just gonna even throw some more superlatives out there in terms of his resume. I mean, he's got the most homers in the minor league since 2021. He's been that electric and that dynamic as a power hitter in the minor leagues, 16, as you mentioned already, this season for the Buffalo Bisons. Okay, so there was something you hit on there. And this is sort of what the follow-up I was going to present anyway, but you did such a great job that you teed it right up for me was what happens when Bo is ready to come back. And I was I got a mip and like my interpretation of this decision, the decision to bring him up to call him up now, I thought, okay, I felt like it was time where that decision should be independent of Bo's injury. Do you feel differently? Do you think that when Bo comes back, the most likely scenario here is that a relevance ends up being optioned back to AAA? Yeah, that is, I think, the most likely situation. And I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I mean, if he is able in the next four or five games to show the blue chase, that he has something real to offer against major league pitching, then of course you can adjust. And you can, you can change course. I mean, there's nothing that they're locked into right now, but given what we know at this moment in time, I don't think that they want for all this Martinez to spend three, four, five weeks in a situation where he's as a 22-year-old player, not getting regular reps for a week or two. They're totally fine with that. And I think there's an argument to be made that he's going to develop well by having a little bit of a chance in the major leagues where he's not necessarily playing every day, but he's still exposed with some different things. He's still learning the ropes here in the major. So that happens for a week, great. But you wouldn't probably want a 22-year-old top prospect to spend too long or he's not playing regularly. So then it becomes a question of, can he show the blue chase enough in this very brief audition that he deserves to be playing on a regular, regular basis? So yeah, that's why I expect this will be sent down in about a week. Yeah, I think, I don't know that they drew it up this way necessarily, but the Addison Barger of it all kind of maybe gives them a leg to stand on. Not that they need to. They could do whatever they want. It's their roster after all. But the fact that Barger came up, had the one hit, and I think it was five games there. And then he's looked great since. Obviously, it's not an apples to apples. Every player is different. An opportunity is different. But I do wonder how much of it is them just being able to point to prove a concept and say, we did this with a guy already this year and look at how he's performing now. Yeah, I think that's a great example. And yeah, in that case, Barger goes back down, gets more reps, and then he comes back. And the performance has been really good, like you said. So I think of those two players, Barger's probably the one, you know, clearly he's the one who has produced in the major leagues so far this season. He might fit the roster needs of this team a little bit better too, just by virtue of the fact that he plays a little bit of outfield, he bats left-handed. And he's just older too, right, where you're talking about a 24-year-old versus a 26-year-old. So developmentally, if Barger goes three, four, five days and he's only getting a couple at bats, you know, that's fine. But with a 22-year-old, I do think there's a difference. This is where with Horowitz, you know, at 26 years old, I'd pull it all the way to the other end of the spectrum. Yeah, I agree with it. Right? Like if he gets quite, it's not about development at all anymore. It's 26. Like he's turning 27. He's older than Eric Judge, right? Or sorry, older than Juan Soto. Not Eric Judge. He's older than Juan Soto. So, you know, at a certain point, it's like, let's just win the games. But I don't think that point is there with a 22-year-old. Yeah, I can see that. I can definitely see that. I understand the rationale. And you know, it just wants to see Dangers. Is it so hard? Honestly, Ben, I mean, heck, power, power helps. Like it does help. It helps to have some power in your lineup, or at least to give it enough time where you have a genuine sample to say, OK, he can help. His bat is ready. Whatever the defensive flaws are, like there will probably be plenty that that's going to come because we know he's not the greatest defender, but power will help. OK, nevertheless, I did want to pivot to something else. And this might actually factor in a little bit to what happens with a relevance over the next seven, eight weeks. But do you have certain guys in mind in terms of potential trade candidates? Should this get to a point where the J's are forced to make difficult decisions when it comes to maybe moving off some assets? Are there specific guys you're circling that you say, OK, these are the ones I'm most interested in as far as the trade front is concerned? So do you mean players on the Blue Jays who could be traded elsewhere? Yes, correct guys, that they if they have to go into a bit of a not full on sell mode, but like, are there specific candidates that you feel are the most likely to be moved? Should they get to that point? Yes, yeah, for sure. So, yeah, I mean, to obviously the Blue Jays hope to, you know, sweep a couple theories, get over 500 there, they're, you know, in wind mode. That's where they want to be. I got some hopes and dreams too, Ben. I got to tell you, I got some things I hope. At a certain point, at a certain point, this is, I'm talking about the Blue Jays here. Danielle, I got you a certain point. You got to look at the beer and accept reality for what it is. So that is not, yeah. So that's what they have to do. So they have a month or so until they really have to choose a direction, actually a little longer, because you know, the deadlines to life 30. So we'll call it a month before they have to make that call. But if there are four games under 500 at the trade deadline, they are not in a competitive position. It will be time to sell at that point. And yeah, of course, I mean, I think it's pretty clear which guys they would be moving on from. And I think Jimmy Garcia, Yuseki Fuchee, those would be the ones who are most clear trade candidates. Danny Jansen would be a trade candidate, but pairing a catcher to a contender is not as easy as it is with with throwing versus every roster is a relievers and obviously every team doesn't roster a catcher. So it's just, it's a little trickier with a catcher. So that's a player to watch. And then in addition, I would throw out there, Chad Green, Justin Turner, Kevin Kehermeyer, certainly would expect the team to ask about Bowen Vlad, but I don't expect the Blue Jays will trade Bowen Vlad. And there are a lot of reasons for that. So that's how I see things. Just to follow up on that. Do you think there's any chance they'd consider moving Bassett or Gosman at this point? Like with that conversation, would they entertain it even? Because if you're thinking about even value-wise, the contracts are fair enough that a team will be some team that's in a position to contend is going to probably find it appealing. And you're going to get two guys that have some solid pedigree and are going to help you for potentially multiple runs at it. Wouldn't they carry a lot of value? Like it would maybe be more prudent to make those calls now than even waiting an additional year when they're a year older, let's say. Like do you think that that would ever be a consideration for them? Yeah, it has to be a consideration. It has to be something that they discuss and that they consider. I mean, that is, that is their job is to be as thorough as possible and to consider all these possibilities. Now, considering it is one thing and they've already considered it. I mean, they've already considered what it would mean to trade many players off their roster or to acquire many players onto their roster because that is the job of a big league front office is to look at every option. Now, will they seriously consider it? Will they get to a point that there's traction? Is this something that they will actually be willing to move along the line with in talks with other teams? I don't anticipate that's the case because I do believe for everything that I've heard both from the Blue Jays and from other teams that, hey, this is a team that wants to win now. Obviously, it's not happening, but they still want to and they want to win in 25 if they can't win in 24. So that means you need to have a capable starting rotation. You don't do yourself a lot of favors by creating those guys away unless you're getting a lot back. So yeah, they'll consider it. I don't think that it's something that, you know, I'm not I'm not expecting that, but they'll consider it. Yeah, Gosman, certainly a confounding one. Like the last two outings has been a little rough. He's had an up and down season, but he also has the complete game, you know, 10 strikeout. Shout out that he did he pitched three outings ago. He has had such a confounding season. Quite honestly, it's been it's been one for the ages and we could say that about the Blue Jays team in a lot of ways, but I'm trying to be nice. So I won't. Ben, thanks so much for jumping on with it this morning. Really appreciate it, man. Anytime. Thanks guys. There you go. It's Ben Nicholson Smith. I don't know if you heard. Call us that the letter. You can check out the podcast is a very, very good one. And that was our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. Gosman is the one and this is crazy to say, but if you're at all worried about the wheels falling off there and hand up, I'm, I was worried about it last year and was wrong. So hey, maybe I was just ahead of the curve on this. I think that's the one you would maybe want to get ahead of because there is a there is very much a world. And this isn't don't take this as the Blue Jays have to trade Kevin Gosman. That is not remotely close to what I'm saying, but there's a world where things go, you know, they're already pear shaped. They keep going more and more pear shaped this season. And then next season, guess what? They're probably not very good again. Well, see advanced stage. Yeah, I don't want to know. Whatever it is. Don't want to know. Don't want to see it. But you're in this exact spot next year where, as you said, he's a year older. He's struggled more now. There's less money on the books. So that's certainly part of it. But there's also less runs with it. So I think if somebody comes up to you and wants to get dumb about Kevin Gosman, I don't say acquiring him would be, but throwing in like legit top and top and guys who are there on the verge, whatever, then I think you have to have to consider it. And I think this group would. I don't think they are so blind to the reality. No, no, no, I think there are certain players they are like that with. I think we know the two names. Yeah. And I think Kevin Gosman has certainly done a lot that he should be considered in a similar light. But I also just think that they realize how bare cupboards are. And I think they need to kind of make a push comes to show decision one way or another. I thought that was a very illuminating conversation with BNS because I know whenever you have the opportunity to chop it up with him, he's going to just tell you what he's hearing and fact like he's that. And honestly, especially in baseball, given just the sheer grind, the day to day grind that it is, those guys that follow the team on a daily basis have to embody that approach. They have to because otherwise you can very easily become super cynical and things are going to be tricky for you to cover. Yeah. And view through not even I don't want to say a logical lens, but through the lens of how you think the team is trying to interpret what does. Totally totally totally. So I understand his perspective. I was I gotta admit, does it does pay me it hurts me a little bit that like, it seems like a Ralph is going to get isn't going to get a real runway here. No, he's not. And I think that's sad because this team can't hit. They can't score runs. And this guy, all he's done throughout his minor league career is hit Dingers. He's hit homers. He drives and runs. Like at the very least, given how your offense has performed, you would be delusional, delusional to not think there might be a way that this guy can help you. And I do think the most instructive point and why I I agree with Ben in his sort of his his assessment now, the fact that he did not start on Wednesday told me all I needed to know about how they intend to utilize him and what their vision is for him at this point. They don't think he's ready. I don't think quite honestly, though, Gunner, if he's not ready, then bring up Nathan Lucas. Why did you waste taking even away three days of that bat for him in the minor leagues? Why would you do that? Why? For what? Or for him to be here for two weeks and he's going to play in five games. And that's it. That's not a fair enough sample to judge him and evaluate him. I'm a little bit, little bit concerned and disheartened by that mentality. You're you're disheartened by that. I'm disheartened by the fact that we had two segments about soccer and one about the Stanley Cup final so far in the show. And we're going to rectify that. Yeah, we are going to define that. Yes. My boy, I think, depending on the day, but no, no, I like Frank, but it's like, you know, he's a he's a potster. He likes to throw a jab in here. We'll see if he's my boy on the other side of the break. Frank Saravelli joins us next final segment of the week on the fan boarding show at sports net five out of the fan. In depth, blue Jay's coverage with an analytical twist. Jay's talk plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jay's talk on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Connor has been doing a lot, a lot of Connor things. I could all come to an end tonight. I certainly think, well, at least one Connor could be McDavid could be Brown. Somebody's going to have a big say in it. I think more so, McDavid than anybody. Game six tonight. Who better to chat about it with? And you know, let's be honest, a lot of the scuttle butt around the league. Frank Saravelli joins us right now. Hockey insider and president of hockey content to daily face off. Frank, how you doing today? Hello, boys. What's going on? Oh, it's good. Well, I mean, it is good. It's Friday. I'm happy, but I could have my last hockey game of, well, not the calendar year, but like the year as we consider it in the sport. I'm a little, I'm a little wistful that it could all end tonight, Frank. So were they an Edmonton? Yeah. I mean, you know, the atmosphere, though, is going to be so ridiculous. I said, as soon as they forced game six, I said, they might as well just declare that's a long weekend. Nobody's going to work today. Yep. Yeah, double long weekend if they win tonight, right? Because a game a game would be on Monday, I know back and back in Florida there, but yeah, it would be no work being done in Edmonton from, uh, from Friday to like, well, and if they win, it's like, there's just no work in Edmonton. Cancel work. Sorry. Yeah. Cancel work. The whole summer is the weekend. Yeah. So obviously with this cup final, the biggest kind of story coming into it and coming out of it has been McDavid, right? We all wondered what he would do. They go down. We sit here going, Oh my God, but scar tissue is this going to build up on the, on the young man. And he said, I actually have a thing or two to, to say about that. Every insider we talk to seems to be of the belief that there's kind of nothing that can happen that would allow anyone else to win the consmith. I am still of the belief that if Bob goes and has one more special game, especially in Edmonton and special means shut out or one goal on 55 shots or something along those lines, I still think Bob could pick it up with the performance like that. But do you think the consmith is done and sewed up in McDavid's favor? But I don't think Sergei Babrowski, he's not going to be appearing on my ballot. Sorry, Frank, you just cut out at the beginning of your answer. Can you just say what you said there? Sorry, you just chopped, you chopped out right at the beginning and Babrowski was all we heard. Sure. Babrowski would, he wouldn't be appearing on my ballot. And the reason for that is, I mean, we've rarely seen a stretch of goaltending from anyone in a Stanley Cup final like we have from Babrowski this round. I mean, consider from the third period of game three to the second period of game five, the Oilers had 35 shots on Babrowski and scored 11 times. That's a 686 save percentage. I don't care who you are, you're not winning the consmith with those numbers. From Florida standpoint, Frank, this will be obviously their third crack out here and trying to finish the job. They've now had, I mean, since they won game three to make a three nothing, it's been eight days that they've been sitting in this position saying, okay, now like, let's see, can we do it? No, okay, second crack. I didn't know it doesn't happen again. And now they've had a two day break yet again in between another opportunity to finally close the deal. You think it kind of messes with their psyche at all, like, or is this group just, just different? I tend to lean in the direction of saying, and I mentioned this with Gunner briefly earlier where I said that the fact that they sort of have some scar tissue of last year and the way that they went out in that disappointing fashion, I sort of feel differently about them. And I'm not as concerned, but I just wonder if that's got to play on your psyche after failing to close the door with two opportunities to hoist the Stanley Cup. How could it not? I mean, consider the spot that they're in, right? This is, as you mentioned, the third shot at it. This is the second time that they've had to fly their friends and family across the continent on a charter to come here in case there's a chance of a celebration. Just what every wife wants to hear. Get on the bird. We're going to Edmonton, honey. Just what everyone wants to hear. I'm not even touching that. Sorry. I'm allowed to. So look at the thousand yard stare from Paul Maurice on the bench. I know he said all the right things, but after 1,848 regular season games, the most coached by anyone in NHL history to not win a Stanley Cup, he has to be sitting there thinking, what's it going to take? Up three nothing and we can't close this thing out. And if you were facing maybe a group of mere mortals, I'd say, yeah, probably doesn't mess with them. But when you see facing elimination, Connor McDavid go out and do something that no one in the 106 year history of the Stanley Cup final has done with back to back four point games. How could it not be in your head? Frank, how do you interpret some of the changes that we're going to see? And they're not drastic, but there are a few tweaks that Palmer East is making here heading into game six within his lineup, just shuffling the deck with the top six wingers and and having Oliver Ekman Larsen excuse me now play on the main power play unit, taking the spot of Brandon Montour. Like, how do you interpret those changes? And is it a sign of maybe, you know, Florida not not being desperate, but like trying to acknowledge, Hey, we got to do something here to maybe to turn the to stem the tide and try and get things going back in our favor. Yeah, I think they got wrapped up in a couple different things. One was maybe a little bit of complacency. And two is maybe a little bit of sentimentality. And I'll give you an example. Kyle Opposos play this series. He's been exposed a few different times, but they had a chance to win the Stanley Cup twice. He's an immensely popular guy and trade deadline acquisition. He's also a guy that spent a good chunk of this playoff so far as a healthy scratch. And he was exposed and yet they left him in the lineup, I think, for sentimental reasons, because they had a chance to win the that they've lost twice. Nick Cousins sitting there as a healthy scratch. They had to make the change. Like it was no longer Mr. Nice guy. Hey, you know, we I know we're you're one of the longest tenured players in the league. And we know it's been forever since you played in Buffalo, since you even played in the playoffs. But we have to make the change. So that's a small thing. But I think a pretty good example of, Hey, it's the mess around times over, like we can't we can't do that anymore. Yeah. In terms of the other changes, power play wise, like, I mean, I think any look that's a little bit different. And the way Ekman Larsen has played so far this series, I think the change has been warranted. So I like that they're not sitting back. And I like that they're trying to be aggressive here saying, Hey, maybe we made a couple mistakes. Let's try and write those wrongs. All right. So there is, in fact, a Stanley Cup final happening. And that's that's great. I in fact hope it's happening again on Monday. I would love this thing to go game seven. But once it's all over, all we have is Scubble for yourself. I know, I know, I know. But I got him, like, come up with three hours just because like every morning here, Frank, I needed him dying. Because of what I do for but the nature of what I do, the fact that we are now into draft week, potentially, is is hugely problematic. Yes. So I've heard in talking with several of the insiders, a very unpopular how late this cup final is going. Again, for me, I am wholly of the belief that we should not be playing hockey right now. Like it's too warm. It's too late. We should have the season stelted earlier. But well, we're here. Yeah, give me one more game after after tonight. But Scuttlebutt season is officially underway. We have a Dubois move. We have a Markstrom move. Is it safe to say that all Mark feels like the next major domino to fall? I would think there'd be some urgency on Boston's part there with the, you know, the carousel kind of spinning and people finding their seats in terms of goaltender there. Is all Mark the next kind of major domino in the NHL's trade market? It's almost impossible to predict when. I mean, the likelihood of a deal obviously remains very high. But your point is well made in that the goalie market changed in such an enormous way in 24 hours. I mean, as many as half of the teams looking for a netminder were crossed off the list. You know, LA gets Kemper, New Jersey gets Markstrom and all the sudden we go, okay, well, wow, there's not many teams left that are actually looking for starter type goal tending. Toronto, Ottawa, maybe if you squint real hard and can ignore Alexander Georgiev's contract, Colorado. But short of that, the list begins to get really, you know, thin. And even the pen is re-signing a delk of it, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then the next question you ask yourself is, okay, so what does that mean for Tristan Jari? Yeah. You know, some people wondered, is Jari a buyout candidate? I don't see it that way. I just looking at his contract and what that would require. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I mean, they just signed him one year ago, but you could ask the same question about Corpusallo and Ottawa. So point being, I don't think Omar is a fit for Toronto. Like, and not for nothing, I just, I don't see Boston dealing Omar to Toronto. So, quickly on that, Frank, would they feel the same way about Toronto as they would Ottawa? Cause I've seen not necessarily reports, but it's just because they feel Ottawa is on a different timeline than them. Or is there something about the rivalry? Like, what, what is it that they'd be fine with dealing with Ottawa and not fine dealing with Toronto? Well, just Ottawa, sorry, you need to be, you need to make the playoffs first in order for people to take you seriously. I wanted you to say it. It's one thing when I make fun of the senators, but you an insider. They've been waiting to turn the corner for years and haven't. So until they do, I think everyone's at the, Hey, you need to prove it stage. Frank, we got to get the obligatory Mitch Marner up there. I think that's the one that everybody's obviously curious about because we're getting into a period here where you'd imagine the Leafs are going to have to make some decisions. Like, we got the draft coming up next Friday and then free agency shortly thereafter, but there has been a lot of discourse this week about the idea, the notion that the Leafs might actually, they might have a preference of trying to negotiate an extension. Have like, is there anything there? Is there anything of substance there, Frank, that you can tell us in regards to the Leafs and, and whether they have a genuine desire to actually engage in those discussions with Marner and his camp. Look, I never know what to think or make of things that are put on social media sometimes. Some of them come out of left field. All I can say is I believe any notion negotiating an extension with Mitch Marner to be absolute 100% complete nonsense. I think there's a lot of people that had an exhale because I think a lot of people, however they feel about the player are just not ready to see Mitch Marner $100 million right now, like it's just a, the other question I have and I do need you to be a little quick on this because we are up against it is, would it not behoove the Leafs to do everything in their power to let Leon Dreyseidel sign his contract first and kind of box Marner in because I could see a world where Marner goes ahead of Dreyseidel and then it kind of affects things the other way. I think you would want the better player who's proven more to sign his deal first and then hopefully kind of box Marner in. Is that a fair train of thought? Yeah. And from a market perspective, I could see that making sense. But let me just boil it down to the most simple thing for you. Yeah. The Toronto Maple Leafs are not ready to give Mitch Marner any kind of extension at any price with any length of years. It's not about money. It's not about anything other than they're not convinced that he's someone that helps them. That's, that's well said. I think that's very poignant information. And I'm just preparing you for this. I think that clip might be making the rounds on social later today. Just being honest, Frank. That's just and that's my view and opinion of the situation. Nothing more than that. I don't think they're, I don't think they're ready. I think it's, I think that is very good color to add to the situation. Frank won't be the first time or won't be the last time we bug you. As we said, could be a busy week for you. So thanks so much, Frank. We really appreciate it. See you guys. There goes Frank Ceravelli, hockey insider and president of hockey content at Daily Faceoff hosted the DFO rundown podcast as well as frankly speaking. Got to be a fly on the wall in those locker rooms tonight. Oh, you were going leaf from office. Just fly on the wall anywhere. Honestly, I think a lot of people did an exhale hearing that out of Frank. I can't tell you how many screenshots I have got of report X report. Why go what? They want to give this guy money. They want to give him even a dollar. How dare they? People are not ready for that right now. So whether it's the pragmatic thing to do, whether it's the right way to go about it, we can, we can actually guess what? We have a lot of time to have that conversation. There's plenty of oxygen. That's going to be for two seconds right now and just talk about the appetite for people in the room. I don't know how many people want to see that. And I don't think it'd be a bad thing for it to be eight times 12 hundred million dollars. I don't think that would set the franchise back. I also don't think there are there are more than six people in the city of Toronto that would be happy to see that headline right now. I don't know that I'd be happy, but I can live with it. I would be able to live with it. Okay. Well, as long as you're happy, I think we can all move on. Fun's going to come storming in here if we don't stop talking. It's been a fun week. Thanks so much for listening. Fan morning, Sean Sportsnet 5.9 to the fan. Good morning.
