Non-rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it Are you gonna bark all day a little doggy, what are you gonna bite? Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay It doesn't really hurt I see a hung up on them Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage Go into all the world and make disciples not go into the world and make buddies not to make roses Right don't go into the world and make cronies Disciples I got I got a bit of a jiggle Nick Hahaha, that's a joke pasta when we have the real message of truth We cannot let somebody say their speaking truth when they're not Kiss the Sun lest he be angry and you perish in the way for his wrath is quickly kindled Blessed are all who take refuge in him at a Psalm 212 one of my favorite verses and You know the the Ben Merkel version Translation yes, you told me before it's the Sun lest you get smoked. Yeah, I like that one better But nonetheless it's a great verse and it's perfect for today's show very perfect Which we'll get into here. What's up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Apologia radio Luke the bear here hosting again Pastor Jeff is currently at the hospital with one of his twins, so he can be praying for them I know they'd appreciate it and I've got the little zeezers on my left here Yeah, that's me back in the city director of communications for end abortion now What's going on with you in right now that we need to let the people know about? So we are of course, I mean always working to Impact the church on a national scale and of course impact our culture and legislative offices with the truth on life and biblical justice, of course, we're working towards with the gospel here, but right now the fight is local Arizona fighting against The wicked and their efforts to harm the lives of babies in the womb all the way up to the moment of birth So there's a lot going on on that front Yeah Currently we be telling them legislators to kiss the Sun kiss the Sun. Yeah, this is Preeminent example of that an application of that text, right? Well, we'll get into this quickly here. We got special guests with us the first Want to mention one of our sponsors? I on layer we both got today. Yep Right here. I did I see they were powered now. They went back to the regular Overlay patch cuz those ones with the doubles were kind of a pain in the rear end. Yeah, well I'm sure they're always getting better at their craft, but we love I on layer. They've been great partners with us for the sake of the gospel and We're grateful for their their product their NAD patches And then we talk about them a lot But you can go to ionlayer.com and put apology to keep on code to get a sweet discount on on their product So I'll talk about the other sponsors later Right now. I'm excited to bring in our special guest all the way from Chile. What is it? Pichilimo? Did I say right? Lemo. Lemo. Chile Lucas one language that he's proficient at He's practicing Nathan, what's up, man? How you doing? Doing good. Look. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm excited. We've been planning this for a while actually. Yeah, if you don't know Nathan Anderson get to know him through his creative works documentaries films that he's producing great stuff Yeah, so why do we have you on today Nathan? You just did something Yeah, I just finished a film a documentary called honor the Sun and Release that a few weeks ago now. I think and yeah, it's available on numerous platforms to to watch I'm on my YouTube channel also on the rapping grace app the relearn app and and and the Boniface media app as well. So yeah, a few different places people can check it out. Sweet Well, we'll get into that more. This is actually your third documentary, correct? Yes, yes. So this is my second full-length documentary my my I also did a docu series called teach all nations That's that was my second project, but yeah, this is my third project. What has the response been to your works here? It's been good. It's been good. I mean I to be honest, you know, I've been it's been a long process at least a year and a half You know since I started filming and and working on this so I'm excited just to finally get that out there have Something finished and and out there for the world to see so So yeah, yeah, I've been really blessed and really excited by by the response And and also there's a lot of people that haven't seen my other projects And so you know, either they saw this one first and then saw the other ones or vice versa basically So yeah, then a lot of that as well. Yeah, I'm getting a distinctive theme also from the titles of these that you might have a certain Outlook on the future of the gospel and it's triumph in history and the nations being taught and brought to their king and All of the good stuff that we've talked about here for a little while. It sounds like that perspective is shared. Yeah Yeah, yeah, not not very subtle not not very nuanced in that for sure Yeah, definitely the the theme that kind of ties all these together is a post millennial outlook Especially the the first film on earth as it is in heaven it really digs into the issue of post millennial eschatology and What I've tried to do with these other projects is kind of build on that foundation Not so much go back and try to present and redefend and and kind of post millennialism But show the outworkings of that long That just that that longer view of history that longer Kind of long-term view of of faithfulness over time and how that might look like and from a Christian worldview perspective so So yeah, just tell us Why what your thought process was in doing them in the order you have to said you're kind of trying to lay out the thought there So so bring us into that Yeah, good good question. So well the first film. It was pretty straightforward Even when I started the project my my original goal was I live here in Chile, South America most people speak Spanish and there wasn't a lot of Spanish resources out on post millennialism and So I wanted to make up my first documentary just a Spanish documentary about post millennialism Just to have that as a resource for people here and through a different along series of events The whole Spanish part didn't work out and I ended up doing it in English ultimately Okay, I got that the chance to interview pastor Doug Wilson and a few other you know Ken gentry Steve Greg a number of other folks And you know it just ended up making more sense to release it in English But that was my original thought process and you know by God's grace that film You know it reached a lot of people at least a lot more people than I expected to reach with it And and so after that you know after having honor as it is in heaven out there You know teach all nations my idea was kind of just to Yeah further develop Kind of a biblical worldview And and what the the out workings of that would look like in the area and you know different areas of life in the area of economics in the family in the church and and even in politics but I there is an episode the last one is kind of on the issue of politics, but Obviously, there's a lot more that could be said there and so really in some ways my third film honor The Sun is kind of a continuation of that fifth and final episode of each old nations and kind of digging into that whole issue of of the intersection of faith In politics in a longer Documentary form gotcha gotcha Well, yeah, it was it was excellent. I really enjoyed it and I got I think I was a part of it That was it was fun. I got to hang out at reform Con a little bit and he interviewed me So thank you that was that was cool to be a part of that and I think I was the ugly sandwich in between two two excellent slices of bread I think Toby and Andrew Sandlin maybe so did you just give yourself a nickname there ugly sandwich? Yeah, be careful. That might stick with you. Yeah. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah, good stuff I love all three and like you said the third one the most recent one I watched not too long ago and you can tell as you say the progression like you are applying now the biblical perspective of the future But showing its application in the present and in particular for the realm of civil government and Protestant political theory and how Christians are to think through these types of issues applying our worldview specifically two areas that Christians Haven't been in recent history, right? Like it wasn't always this way. Yeah, it wasn't just, you know In recent history that we started to you know do these things are our forebears You know thought deeply about these things and how to apply the biblical worldview to every area of life But it seems like you're not just you know as a filmmaker you're telling stories You know you're you're telling a story in a specific way though and in seeking to recover What we would be convicted to believe are these biblical truths and these biblical truths have led to gospel freedom gospel blessing for the world the prosperity of entire nations and people groups that have internalized the Christian teachings as a storyteller What is your aim? What are you trying to get across in? Talking about you know this biblical perspective of the future post-millennialism. It's various applications What are you aiming at and what are you hoping that people will see through the stories that you're telling? Yeah, so my aim and all of this is to start a conversation about a lot of these different topics I obviously and this is something that's been a criticism from some people in terms of some of my films like Well, he didn't talk about this this and that and you didn't bring this issue in but the idea with a documentary like that It's not it's it's not a work of systematic theology where we're just going to cover every issue related to these topics, but it it hopefully is enough to spark a conversation or To at least present some of these different pastors and theologians and someone goes Oh, well, you know, maybe who's who's that guy? You know, but what maybe he's written a book on on on this subject and and allow people to dig in a little deeper And so that's really the hope I have With these films, you know just to be a conversation starter and also with the the fact that today all of them are available for free You know, it's it's as easy as you could just send a link, you know to your friend and say hey watch this Or what do you think about this section over here and I'm and so it's a great resource right now for people to share and and and and and to just you know or watch and in their church small group or or You know a lot of different venues in that sense Well, I at that point man. I appreciate I appreciate brother you having this up for free I mean well, we'll get into Chile later and like where you live and stuff We were just talking before we started he it takes like 15 days to get where Nathan lives from anywhere And I know from watching these films you were all over the US Interviewing people like it's not like you like flew people down to your hometown to get interviewed You were all over the place and I can't imagine the amount of time and money It took you just to travel around and so the fact that you've been able to put this up for free for everyone is is amazing So thank you for that Yeah, no, it's definitely it's been some some great experience is obviously, you know trying to tie different trips together and Doing that kind of thing, but yeah, we especially for You know especially for teach all nations and and for honor the Sun We did some long, you know some long trips, you know 11 interviews 17 interviews or you know Things like that in the space of like 10 days who so I'm on so yeah well definitely Definitely has been a very fun experience. So with traveling with a friend who's helping you with the camera some of the camera stuff and And doing that's yeah It's definitely a lot of work, but obviously most of the work and you guys know this too is Sitting in the office trying to put all this stuff together trying to figure you know after the fact in a lot of times How this all fits together whether it fits together, you know all those kinds of fun questions Yeah, I mean, I imagine the hardest part was figuring out what to take out because I imagine you got some just I bet I bet you're like the stuff you didn't include is also Incredible and you probably have enough content to do a lot of other stuff with that and I know like we've always we learned Learn this when Marcus was here. We learned it from Darren. Don't you just let the story tell itself? And yeah, just trying to put the pieces together. So so yeah, I'd I mean I'd love to see some of the b-roll extra footage you got going on Well, I look on that note too You know, you're telling a coherent narrative and making these puzzle pieces fit together with that which obviously takes skill But one thing I really enjoy about what you've created so far is within these projects. You're also addressing the common Objections if you will to the post millennial position and even to just a simple position that doesn't relegate the scriptures to a church setting or you know certain spheres of government you're attempting to Show how you know these objections such as you know Applying the faith here is a violation of church and state and how Christians should that should think through these things and so one thing I enjoy is that you're actually responding to these common Objections that we hear in the public square any time a Christian attempts to walk out their door and start thinking Christian Yeah, no, it's and it's hard because obviously there's a lot of different directions You know a lot of different interests you could take in a subject like this and it's hard to find and decide what's you know What what to keep and what's the most important? Aspects and so I you know I think you know, you know with the latest project with honor of the Sun I I really attempted to yes, you know Try to stay focused on some of these central issues in terms of like do rulers have you know an obligation? to Christ as Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and just focus on those basic issues and and And just maybe pound those issues into the ground in some ways so that people can Deal with that wrestle with that and then all the other Conversations we might have would then flow out of that basic Understanding of Christ Lordship overall areas of life in that sense. Just curious. Are you planning on doing another one after this? Yeah, yeah, I am glad to hear that yeah, I'm I'm actually well I guess if you guys want that an exclusive scoop on that I'm I'm why not I mean yeah, let's hear it I am working right now on the very very initial stages of You know of a theme that's kind of been through all of these films, but but I want to do something a bit more explicit in that regard is I want to do a documentary on The whole issue of theonomy and Christian Reconstruction Talk a little bit about you know guys like RJ Rush uni Gary north Greg bonsen and And so yeah, that's what I'm with that's sweet my the next project. I'm I have in the works right now and Yeah, that's exciting on the in the initial stages of kind of figuring that out excellent. I For the record to between Nathan and Andrew Sandlin you guys are like two of my favorite Facebook posters Like I would every time I see your guys post them always like it gets me fired up. So I'm grateful for you free Usually post on Facebook. So that'll be good It's it's sound I'm looking forward to that project because I mean that will put you in the popular camp talking about yeah The oh yeah, I'm in raising Those names, but I think it's important because this is the discussion the church is having right now it is and we're talking about You know gospel culture and addressing the topic of Christian nationalism and how you know What are the the differences with what we're saying versus what someone else would be saying? So I think it's it's needed. I think clarity is important at this moment for for what we mean and the vision that we're aiming at as Christians Yeah, yeah, no, we're definitely in a in a interesting place in that regard because You a lot of people are talking about Christian nation and and throwing ideas out there But but yeah, not the the vision that you know guys like Rushdie and Gary North and and you know And bonds and had was was pretty specific in what they they were saying and what they weren't saying You know and and so I think it's it's helpful to lay some of that stuff out there And and you know and there's so many resources, you know, you guys know this there's so many, you know Gary North was very generous and with all the books he published I mean he he left them out all out there for free on his website on PDFs And so people who really want to look into those things they they have those resources are Available, you know, yeah, even the guys at Calceda and they have a bunch of their resources to read online and stuff like that and so so my goal You know what this next project is is that yeah that people would take an interest in Looking into some of those guys and what the work they've done. I think that'll help because honestly these guys Brilliant minds prolific writers lecturers and so on and someone might be Intimidated just to pick up one of their works and start diving in you know when you read Rushdoney you're reading dense Dense theology and information, but you know seeing his beliefs presented in a visual form too Like you say I think we'll give people an in-road and thinking well, okay There's there's more to what's being said here and I need to investigate it because it's gonna give some direction on what we're dealing with today Yeah Sorry, I just had a thought pop up you were talking. I wasn't planning on having this little mini discussion here And I also meant to play the trailer at the beginning forgive me. I will play the trailer for the film But I don't know did you guys happen to see I? Saw this clip a couple days ago. I'm not entirely sure when it was from but it was saying Sam Waldron and Joel Beakey Yes, I Yeah, so I just pull they were discouraging. Yeah, the end the enemy. Yeah, I'm just gonna since we're talking about this I'm gonna pull this up real quick and I was I was very disappointed especially Beakey who's like the guy on the Puritans and then To see this clip and anyways, let me let me I'm gonna go out and play this game. I pulled it up if you can pull it up and then we'll just discuss this real quick You can't simply ignore the history of terminology Gary north rusus rush dune and Greg bonsen They are they are the origin of this. They're the fountain of the enemy. They identify themselves as the anomic now if you're gonna say you're the anomic you either believe what they believe and and and and Pay attention to history or you tell us plainly where you disagree with them. The enemy does not merely mean that you believe in God's law I know that's the etymology, but that's not what it means. It's not what rush dune. It's not what north And it's not what bonsen meant You know the reformers in Puritans were so clear on the biblical teaching of the law And the categories are so just just crystal clear in the role of the moral law the civil law the ceremonial law They got it right and there's no need to reinvent the wheel. The enemy is not the road to go for you or for your church Okay, so So I Nathan I love to hear you're taking that especially You're in that mode right now, right? You mentioned those guys as I just mentioned and I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on that Yeah, I mean I think I don't have such a huge issue with With what Sam Waldron said right there because I I mean I think he's right. I think theonomy You know, it's important how we define terms even Greg bonsen talked about this in the introduction to his you know his his book on theonomy and Christian ethics where you know He recognized that the term theonomy has been used by you know a lot of different thinkers to refer to a lot of different things You know Paul till it and and other guys And that he was using it in a specific way and so I you know, I don't have a huge problem with that be and frankly, it's because I don't have a problem with Greg bonsen and Gary Dorth and these guys it is true and you know if you go to the larger clip They they start going to well these guys disagree with each other on different things and all that and so and they use that kind of Excuse like, oh, well, you know, they disagreed. So you know that that means, you know, they can't we can't Have them all together. I'm like wait a second. So you got a Dutch reformed guy on the stage there with a Reformed Baptist guy, you know saying that you know, well these guys disagreed. Well you guys disagree, you know and even and I find it really ironic that they would clip those two guys together because you know I'm all Jim being a Baptist and you know What's the name Joel beakies like start talking about the you know Well, we don't need the army because we have the Puritans and we you know have the reformers and and it's like I don't know how you know good it would be to be a Baptist and in Calvin's Geneva, you know I mean if you guys want to be really specific, I think Gary North Would probably have a better scenario for or you know for for religious liberty Then then that particular situation So, you know, I don't know it but to me what's what's interesting about this the whole conversation there is They seem to be very concerned about post-colonialism and the on me I mean the guys that coming at Baptist theological seminary they keep publishing podcasts and articles and you know And in some ways I feel like even some of the themes of that conference. They had it was like, you know Optimistic all millennialism kind of a thing if it was kind of yeah, you know Also a nudge towards the whole post-millennial conversation that we've been having for a long time And so if they seem to be very concerned about what's what's going on and in terms of theonomy and post-millennialism and Then on the other hand I think a lot of people on our sides are very appreciative of what those guys are doing and you know I feel like the pushbacks coming a lot from one direction and the guys on our side are responding You know, obviously when when someone makes those kind of statements you want to respond. Yeah But it's kind of a yeah, it's kind of an odd situation. Yeah, no, I appreciate that A lot and and we've talked about this especially with the whole Christian nationalism conversation. I think the reason that This kind of this these topics these conversations are so prevalent right now within the church is because I We would all agree that our position has the answer for the questions the answers to the questions And and the church has not had those answers And so it's I think that's why we're seeing it kind of a resurgence because we're like yeah we can answer that we've been saying this for a long time, but we'll continue to say it and You know, even there's been a lot of chatter Guys saying well, you know that saying the theonomy and post-monos myth that was dead and we're like zombies coming on the grave sort of thing Which is just hilarious to me, but But yeah, I love to hear your your thoughts on that Just that we have the answers that the cultures or the I shouldn't say the culture that the church is looking for to respond to the culture Yeah, I think that You know, especially since Covid and since all the insanity broke loose. I think there's been some important dividing lines that have formed within evangelicalism and and you know people a lot a lot of things have come to light and kind of been exposed in in terms of How a lot of evangelicalism had gotten used to responding to the culture responding to the government and you know and and and I think that the faithfulness of you know, churches like like you guys, you know, and others that That we're able to respond in a different manner was really rooted in that those theological convictions you guys and and we had before 2020 came around and so a lot of people Were in 2020 looking around trying to well, what do we do now? How do we respond? But as you were saying we we got to that stage having I think a lot of the tools Yeah, and having the the response, you know, that was you know written, you know a long time ago as to what the role of the church is what the role of the state is and and more than all of that a optimistic view of the future that understands that you know these these seasons will pass, you know, and it is important to be faithful in the midst of them knowing that that that you know that that Christ's Kingdom will continue to advance and knowing that Christ's enemies will be put to shame ultimately, you know, and and and so I think that's really important as we you know Coming out of this whole situation and and you know considering whatever else may lie ahead for us, you know in this in this in the time period that we're living through I think that that whole event just kind of shook people kind of You know put a lot of these ideas out there though not so much at the level of the seminary, you know I think it's more yeah the people in the pews exactly listening to podcasts reading books or watching movies that have and so I think a Lot of folks in the seminaries feel pretty threatened because it's like agreed Well, these guys are talking about all these things that we didn't learn in seminary and that weren't you know That that actually kind of contradict, you know some of the the ways we were taught to operate and to act and So I think there's a there's a definitely a a conflict there and and I don't know Hopefully some of these conversations will trickle up into it to the seminaries or I don't know Yeah, but so I think there's definitely a divide there though for sure Oh, and I'm I suspect part of that is why why we have you know guys like the guys that combed at Baptist Theological seminary so concerned about putting out all this material against Theonomy and against them post-millennialism. Yeah, I think you had the nail on the head with you know the events over the last four years really were unenvailing and It showed us how woefully inadequate and ill-equipped we were the church I should say for the most part to deal with things like Ulterior and the encroachment upon the church's mission and the effects of the culture and all those things So I think you had the nail on the head there I think people are hungry for those answers which we are of the perspective that you know We would say that our position has those things what I find interesting about that clip is They speak very highly of the Puritans You know the Puritans have that and you know you mentioned bonsons work Theonomy and Christian ethics what I love about that book is at the end he includes the early legal codes for colonies and how Every law next to it. There's an Old Testament citation for the basis of it from the Pentateuch and so that That fires me up but because when you see that you see what our nation's earliest legal codes were based on like Where were they looking as the source of authority? They were looking to God's word to tell them what laws to write and how to write them how to apply them in society So if someone is telling me hey listen the Puritans got it right stay with them and I say great I'm gonna go read the Puritans and then I see things like that And I think well is are they theonomy in? Like is that what they were doing because this looks a lot like the application of God's law and in particular God's judicial standards To the realm of civil government is that what I should be listening to then I think that's the problem that a lot of you know like you said Christians that are just listening to materials and podcasts not existing in the seminary Realm so much are thinking like okay. You told us to go read these guys and listen to these guys well guess what we went and read those guys and listen to those guys and They disagree with you so There's a little bit of an internal conflict going on here. Yeah, absolutely not appreciate that You want anything to that? Nathan Yeah, I mean, I think these conversations I mean when we go back into history, I think a lot of these guys have a very specifically curated You know understanding of some of the Puritans and and others, you know because it you know But as you say when when they discover, you know other aspects of what they thought, you know It's a little shocking because it obviously doesn't line up with what is being taught and what is being set forward And either way, I mean because because obviously sometimes, you know These discussions about historical theology can get you know extended and someone's like, well, I you know I studied John Owen and I you know I got this out of it But I actually I think John Owen thought you know differently and you know we could get into long discussions about those kind of thing But ultimately we go back to just just basically well What does the the Bible teach, you know and what does the scripture teach about these things and and and and and when we are faced with with these kinds of of conflicts and strife and Where we actually have to go? Well, no the government's wrong about this. Yeah, and you know That's when I think the rubber it meets the road with a lot of the things and that's been really interesting for me And even in the my you know the story of my my film because I released my first film and on February 15th 2020 right and at least here here in Chile everything kind of went nuts I think it was around March 11th or 12 that was before shut down. So yeah, how providential yeah I know and and so I I always you know in God's providence. I made a film about Optimistic eschatology right before this. Yeah, you know world changing. Yeah, event Basically and and and so it's it's almost you know on paper. It's like that's a weird time to release a film about post-millennialism But you know God in his providence, you know, used it Specifically for for that time period. So it's been very interesting and that's incredible Well, let's I'm gonna play the trailer here. We're about the halfway point I'm gonna play the trailer real quick at just a minute long and then I want to dig into the film a little bit more And then I want to hear about Chile and and just I have a lot of questions So we'll just play the trailer real quick here. Go ahead and pull it up game Jesus is king of kings and lord of lords a king is a political power a lord is a political power Christ was crucified in public Everything about Christianity is public. It's it's meant to be out there in the world influencing things Jesus is Lord. He's Lord of all of life America has a lord Jesus is his name and he was born 2,000 years ago if you're not post-mill if you're not optimistic about the future and you look at the church disintegrating into faithlessness You think well, we're right on schedule So why the name honor the Sun? So yeah, honor honor the Sun comes from yeah song to where you know and basically it is a a threat against the kings of the earth, you know and Calling them to obey the Sun to kiss the Sun if we're gonna be a little more more literal right to submit to him Less they be destroyed and so, you know it the whole aspect of song to You know, it portrays, you know the the rulers of the earth, right? standing against the Lord and against his Messiah and and ultimately being defeated in their attempt to to stand against Christ and And as a result of that right in that Psalm we see that the nations are given to Christ as his heritage and and the ends of the earth as his possession and but that process goes out on throughout history of God's people going into the world and taking possession of the land in that sense and and and and the rulers of the world are are warned to To not get in the way basically, you know this this train is moving forward and You know, don't get in the way or you're gonna you're gonna be crushed Ultimately, and so so yeah that that that's kind of the the idea In terms of Psalm 2 and in terms of the place of Christ as king of kings That's what I wanted to mainly portray so is what you're saying then That the rulers of the earth when they are called to kiss the son That doesn't just mean that they need to get their individual souls safe for heaven one day That was actually more to their duty. Yeah Yeah, I mean their duty as rulers is to you know honor Christ and and you know what I mean In one sense all the duty of all of us is to honor Christ wherever we have been placed in terms of our locations in terms of our callings and You know if if we happen to be Political leaders or we're called to that then we have to honor Christ in that sphere as well ultimately and Understanding as well that the the whole Authority that rulers have it is It comes from God You know and so they must submit to Christ because Christ is a thought the source of their authority as well And so if they don't submit to Christ they were they're in rebellion You know against the the their king. Yeah, right whether they want to recognize him as that or not He is the king of kings and the Lord of lords and so I think that is an important Foundation for any conversation about about political theology Ultimately, yeah, no, I and I appreciate something. We just said that you know we are to Honor the Sun in every sphere God or dance fear of government every jurisdiction should honor the Sun and whether be individual family church civil and I Think I think what part of the problem With the church right now and and we'll get into Chile cuz I don't know I have no idea what it's like in the culture down the but in the US. I mean the church, you know, we were battling on this kind of two-kingdom theology where You know, well, I guess you you honor the Sun in your own private governmental jurisdiction But when it comes to this civil realm, that's a different Jurisdiction they don't they shouldn't have to honor the Sun or we shouldn't as Christians tell them that they are to honor the Sun and I think I think we are where we are at in our culture because of that we mentioned it last week But that prophetic vision. There's been no prophetic vision from the church saying kiss the Sun. Lest you To get smoked right and so yeah, I appreciate what you just said I don't know. Well, that's the the practical effect of what you're saying is that the civil sphere is just kind of left to go its own way and It's left to operate under an autonomous authority Which will end up being itself and when its authority ends up being itself. It becomes Its own God. Yeah, right it the source of its own law essentially so to not tell the civil sphere to kiss the Sun is To allow the civil sphere which is where the laws come from that affect our lives to go the way of tyranny Because there's no ultimate authority over the state saying you must obey the Sun You must rule in the fear of the Lord like they need to hear Psalm 2 Which I mean the apostles also quote this in the New Testament copiously right about the resurrection of Christ You are my son today. I have begotten you Jesus is the first begotten from the dead So he was raised right he was resurrected from the dead in order to reign in order to fulfill a particular purpose Of course is our intercessor as the one who secured our redemption eternally But he didn't just rise he ascended and then after he ascended He sat down on his throne for the purpose of ruling right and I love what you said Nathan You connected the purpose of Christians not just in a spiritually redemptive sense But in a creationally redemptive sense right you connected that to our calling in Genesis Which is as image bearers of God which Christ restores us to that office to take dominion to extend the rule of the king as Far as the curse is found right. That's what Jesus saves us to he saves us from Damnation he saves us from eternal condemnation under the wrath of a holy and just God But he also saves us to good works and those good works have to do with Extending his rule building God honoring culture and really overturning all the effects of the curse So it's it's a creational view in which we're saying Jesus is not just a spiritual king. He's not just a cosmically redemptive Boss of my individual life or over the church's life. No, he's actually the Lord of all creation Like everything that's made he has authority over it belongs to him because he made it and Jesus put the stamp on that When he was raised from the dead and when he was ascended his king That's what the gospel is because that's the gospel that the apostles were preaching right acts 13 32 And we bring you the good news That what God promised to the fathers he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus as it is written in the second Psalm so the gospel of the kingdom is all wrapped up in this Yeah, I think about one issue that sometimes gets overlooked in a lot of these conversations is you know a lot of times You know, we tend to think well, this is just an issue of you know wrapping together this issue on post-millennialism and stuff like it This is just an issue of eschatology, right? but I think in a lot of ways it's more of an issue of of the gospel in terms of soteriology because what ultimately a lot of people are saying is We cannot expect why You know, you know wide transformation or or extensive transformation in the world today or in the next 50 years or in the next 500 years because Ultimately because the gospel we have just isn't going to cut it right the gospel we have is not powerful enough to bring about This this vision of the discipled Nations and they and a lot of times they really do believe that the only way the nations are really going to change Is at the second coming through you know is through through a violent judgment of God And that's the only way though the the enemies of Christ are going to be subdued is on that last day in a violent Manner, yeah, but it's it's very interesting because that's not what the what the scriptures teach at all And you know, we could consider the fact that the scriptures speak of the kingdom of God being like a mustard seed starting out Slowly and growing into a large tree or we can consider Psalms 110 which is also very important. Mm-hmm And it speaks of of Christ's ruling in the midst of his enemies Yeah And that's a very interesting one because that's that means that his rule does not begin when everything is pristine It begins in the midst of enemies Mm-hmm, but the other thing that that I always find very interesting is is verse three of Psalm 110 because it says Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power and so there's an element there of Persuasion Yeah, that does not happen in a top-down manner voluntary as it's voluntary that then and then we even see that in Isaiah chapter two where the nations flow to Zion, right the nations come the nations seek out the Lord ultimately and so And that does not happen You know at the second coming at the second coming that's fire falling from heaven, right? That's not the nations going out to seek the Lord and so I think it's it's very important to understand our our political theology Is connected to our belief in the power and the sufficiency of the gospel to Transform hearts and minds over time and to ultimately bring about this vision that we see in Scripture that of nations submitting to Christ and of Enemies either being destroyed along the way or enemies being turned into friends Right like just just like we were right we were once enemies and God's God's redemption Brought us from death to life and we were brought under the lordship of Christ We were made his voluntary subjects because we saw him and you know We saw the glory of Christ and we offer ourselves freely as living sacrifices to him and that's I love what you said there It's how powerful is your gospel? You know how much power do you believe that Christ? Actually possesses. Yeah, it's like one of my favorite Joe boot quote. He says people always tell me I haven't over realized eschatology and and my response to say no, you have an under realized soteriology and That's exactly what we're talking about here and good stuff, okay, so Let's let's tie this in now. I want to hear about where you live So what I mentioned earlier that Nathan's very far away Yeah, it's for example, it's like 110 here in Arizona today We're literally kissing the Sun. Yeah, right Nice and it's like cold winter for Nathan and it feels like we're perishing So we looked at a map before we started so basically he's like far east coast Is on a different continent like us Eastern if you go straight down and then like the southern tip of Australia He's like that's where he's at in Chile, which is insane Why are you there? Yeah, it's weird because we're east of the east coast, but we're on the west coast of South America Yeah, and we're yeah, we're pretty far down. Yeah, I've lived here my whole life pretty much my parents came down here when I was Eight months old as missionaries and so I've lived here. Yeah, and pretty much I'm 37 now so yeah long time and But I've also traveled a good bit to the States and gone back and forth But yet, it's definitely home down here and we live in Pichile Moo, which is a small coastal town about three hour drive from the capital from Santiago and yeah, part of an elder here at a little reform church and Yeah, we love it here our town is is pretty well known mostly just well known for surfing I guess that's probably the biggest thing we we have go in here and we have really good surf breaks good good waves And yeah, a lot of people travel here because of that right on so are you are you a full-time missionary? Are you do other work or how do you pay the bills? Good question. Well, so right now I've kind of transitioned into doing also kind of filmmaking stuff Okay, kind of full-time and yeah, I'm just serving as an elder at our church and Yeah, a few few other things on the way, but yeah, mostly just making films these days. Is your Is your wife from Chile or she from the US as well? Yeah, my wife is from Chile. Okay Very cool. Mm-hmm. Very cool. Both both my kids are born here and I'm uh, yeah Yeah, they have they have dual citizenship and all that. Oh, wow. Nice. So what what is the culture like there? Is it similar to the US like because you know, we're having this conversation everyone's listening right now Understands that we're talking about because we're used to the US culture. Is it is it similar? Is it different? I mean, are you celebrating the no way a covenant month down there right now? Like do you have? Targets with or I don't know. He's tar hit tar hits. I don't know how you say it in Spanish Like are you know, do you have to put up with that kind of nonsense in June or what's it like down there? Yeah, I mean, I would say you know, I've traveled a good bit throughout South America and Latin America Yeah, a lot of the stuff from the states trickles down here and imagine other parts of the world as well Sure, and so we yeah, we have all that craziness. We've also been going through a lot of political appeal throughout the you know, since 2019 We had you know, just kind of a whole uprising thing here and Yeah, we we got into this mode where they decided we they wanted to rewrite the Constitution of Chile Wow and their giant protests and all the all this stuff going on and so we've we we had I think it was two or three constitutional conventions that were a joke and and that all happening, you know throughout COVID and and all that craziness and Finally after spending all this money energy and everything else they the the last proposed Constitution that would have been a complete train wreck Got voted down and so yeah, so we've been in a time of a lot of political turmoil Our president right now. I think he's I don't know if he's the youngest in Chile's history But some are along those lines and it's yeah, it's been a pretty terrible. Yeah terrible administration In in that regard and you know, I mean just just to have an idea Jacobine magazine was just you know singing his praise when they found out he was becoming president of Chile, so So yeah, it's it's it's we're in a very complicated situation You know, obviously evangelical Christians are the minority here in in our country Yeah, maybe what's the dominant and view Catholicism something along those lines Probably yeah Catholicism, but they they've lost a lot of steam over the church the Roman Catholic church here has lost a lot of power a lot of a lot of Yeah, just socially and politically and everything else and so So yeah, things have definitely been trending more towards unbelief and away from any form of Christianity For for a while here, so we're struggling with a lot of the same things you guys are And we're we're probably in a in a much more difficult situation than then the US is in So it's some form of democracy. I'm assuming Yeah, yeah, we saw some form of dr. What what are the you know, you said they're trying to change the Constitution like what are the The roots of the founding of Chile isn't is a nation I'm assuming it had a lot of heavy Roman Catholicism and those roots So I mean even like law structure is it going to be similar to what we have here? Anyways, I'm just curious what that looks like Yeah, it's a good question. I think throughout all of South America and and a lot of these different nations you have you have that the tradition of you know kind of the American founding and you have the tradition of the French Revolution and so, you know, it kind of depends on on the nation you're in which of those two traditions are More dominant, you know and obviously the the the whole idea the tradition of the French Revolution is a lot more You know godless and a lot more, you know, and and and is a lot different than that of the American founding So, you know, I think there's moments in in Chile's history that it's been more More to one side then to the other But yeah, I mean definitely the people that are in power today are are definitely on that. I'm a on-team French Revolution for sure Gotcha in that regard what just cares what year was Chile founded. Do you know? Oh, I don't remember was it it was after the US Yeah, it was definitely after the US Yeah, hopefully we have birthdays left for a while after those things are trending in a very negative direction Well, they Well, that's that brings me to the next question I had and I'm I always I always ask people from other nations this question we have, you know, we're up for a very interesting six months or so and I know that this election affects the world and other nations So I'm just curious from your perspective how this election here in the in the US or do you think it will affect you down there in Chile I? Mean I mean it definitely will obviously because you know also the US Yeah, as I said, they export a lot of these two ideas whoever's in power, you know, throws money into different causes that you know Progressive causes around the world and all that and there's obviously pressure You know, even if you had a conservative president or a conservative government, there's pressure from the UN There's pressure from these different international organizations To do things a certain way and to structure things a certain way And so obviously if you have a president that is all about that stuff in the US That makes it very hard, but if if the US president is not about pushing some of those those agendas internationally That's a better position for for everybody, you know outside of the US who's somewhat conservative, I guess. Okay. Gotcha Thank you. That's helpful. So what are what is your freedom of speech laws? Like I mean you mentioned it was pretty crazy Yeah, so like are you I'm curious for the stuff that you're preaching right in these films Is it I'm imagining in some places in the US? Is it easier to be bold like that and speak out? That it is in Chile or is it similar? I'm just curious what the atmosphere is like I mean we do have a level of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, I guess I haven't perceived, you know that much pushback in this context from the films and from from that I guess But yeah, I mean I would definitely say in a lot of areas, you know, especially, you know issues like, you know, like Prime and and self-defense and all that like it's United States offers a lot more liberties in that regard Also, you know just in in legal fights for religious liberty or different situations I feel like the United States, you know has has a lot of organizations, you know Has you guys and other people that are that are involved and and yeah? I mean you have a whole array of Groups and we're a pretty small small small bunch down here for sure and and also Chile is is a pretty small country I think our population is something like 20 million people so you know compared to the US. That's it's tiny That regard. Yeah, but yeah, definitely you guys. I would say have a lot of a lot more Opportunities and resources on hand of people trying to work in that that kind of you know to to Advance, you know, you know, you know at least conservative politics and even better if we're talking about actually, you know A Christian worldview perspective in that sphere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and as long as Chile is that's about one person first where mile I think Yeah Yeah You just tell us how long is you look at a map. It's crazy how yeah, yeah, it's super narrow Um, and I think like a good percentage of the country lives in Santiago though So it lives in the cap. I think it's like a third or something. Wow So so yeah, it's an interesting situation once you leave the capital city. There's a lot of you know Open space, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, and I and we were talking about like basically the whole Southern portion is Patagonia and probably not a lot of people live in there and although it's beautiful there, but Yeah, interesting. That's very interesting. Um, well, cool. Why we're getting low on time. You got any other questions. I want to ask them while we get them So tell people where to go to find your stuff Yeah, so uh, you can find my well, I guess the probably easiest would be just to go to my website, which is on earth film dot net And there's links to some of my social media There and there's also links to where you could even watch the films That I produced there if not you could just search on youtube for on earth as it is in heaven It should pop up or honor the sun teach all nations. Those are all available On youtube as well. So that's that's another way to do that and um, and yeah, but probably through my website would probably be the easiest Most direct way. Excellent. Well, thank you brother for being on today and um By the way, those who are all access uh stick around we will have Nathan on for a little bit on the after show to continue this conversation But um, thanks for being on and i'm excited for this next project you're doing and and looking forward to that and Uh, definitely want to have you on on again in the future and if you got something coming up that you want to talk Well, let me know and we'll see if we can find a spot for you Awesome. Thank you guys. Thanks for thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely Um Well, I I'll finish the show here just again to mention our other sponsors Um, they would also Course heritage defense uh, they would also be very much in line with what we're talking about today and uh So Bradley pierce he writes all of our um equal protection bills. He's always on call or not always on call half the time is on call For heritage defense and I know I sound like a broken record and I I mean it when they say it If you're watching this in new homeschool your kids Uh, you need to just go right now You can just get off the show if you want and go to heritage defense.org And sign up your family to make sure you're protective of a three letter agency comes the door Hand them the phone talk to my lawyer. Um, super super affordable. I mean, it's like Just to give up a couple coffees a month. Maybe you're you're good to go Um Pretty cheap and apology in the coupon code and get the first month free. We love them a ton And then of course, uh, amtech blades Uh, I got my knife here today out in uh, bill rapier. It's good front of ours legendary navy seal Makes an amazing blade. We got our battle axes And uh, he's been a faithful partner with us as well. Um, and if you go to amtechblades Dot com you can put apology in the coupon code and get five percent off and he donates five percent To an abortion now to help save babies. Oh, that's that was what I was going to ask you Nathan real quick What are the abortion laws like in in Chile? That that's a really good question Um, so in very recent years, I think Because I'm getting all these controversies all jumbled together because so like 2000 I think it was either 2018 or 2019 Uh, up until then abortion in all of its form was completely illegal here in chile And I think in 2018 or 19 Uh, they passed a law To allow abortion in the in in you know, the case of your risk of life for the mother And in the case of rape exceptions, you know something, you know, whatever the the the main three. Yeah. Yeah exceptions are So that's a very recent, you know event and then that got all mixed together You know with what happened with our constitution and all that craziness. Okay. Um, so but that's where we're at today And um, interesting and so abortion still isn't very common. I remember reading an article a while back of like a uh a girl who tried to get an abortion um based on kind of the The rape exception from like way in the south of chile and no doctor would would do it Basically and she had to actually end up lied to san thiago to find a doctor who would be willing to to to To do that. And so yeah, it's it's uh We're in an interesting place, but yeah, not obviously You know as in a lot of places things have been trending in that direction for a while now. Wow. That's really interesting Well, praise god. I mean you're far better off than we are on that department. So Um Well, yeah, we'll talk. I'll talk to more about that actually i'm curious. That's more question. Maybe we can talk about that in the after show Um so Again, if you're all access, uh, please stick around. We'll be will be There in a few minutes to contain this conversation And we thank you every single one of you Uh the partners with us To help us keep the lights on to help us have awesome dudes like nathan on And we're super grateful. So Um next week. I don't know what we're doing next week. We'll figure that out. Sounds good. Hopefully pastor jeff will be back so It's been a pleasure on the sun Nathan thank you brother everyone peace out *outro music*
