[MUSIC PLAYING] The roar is back at BC Place for the BC Line 70th season. Get your tickets now at BClines.com. Stan Reachow and Sati Arshal here in the Kintec Studio. As we just spoke with Manny Malholtra, Abbotsford Canucks head coach and running development camp for the Canucks prospects this week. So we appreciate Manny's time. Good conversation. A lot about what goes on at development camp and how these prospects can put their best foot forward in trying to have a professional hockey career in the National Hockey League. But that means we haven't got to the open yet, so let's do it. [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to the open. [MUSIC PLAYING] That's your home. Are you too good for your home? Answer me. Yeah, it's the open where we bring the latest on the Vancouver Canucks and our take on it. As you can expect July 4th, not a ton of news around the National Hockey League, especially with the Canucks who wrapped up development camp today. We've already been in on that. But speaking of development, Sat, who could see a breakout next year production-wise? Like, which Canucks could be in line for a production increase next season? So yesterday you were posing the question, can Jake de Brosk be the B2 Alias Patterson, what Quinn Hughes was, or what Philopronic was to Quinn Hughes? Right. And even if he is not quite that, can that partnership get Alias Patterson to, at the very least, get to the level he was the year prior? Yeah. And can he have a career- Which is a 100-point player. Yeah, now I'm not saying Patterson is going to reach a ceiling. But can he at least be in an environment where he can have a career year to this point, where maybe he has 105 points, 110 points or something? Does he hit 40 goals? Can he do 40? These are interesting questions with Patterson. I think he's an easy candidate to point out. I mean, he finished with 89 points. And I'm sure we're going to get the Patterson haters coming into the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox any second now. But if you look at his splits for the season, I mean, he was on a tear going all the way into the All-Star break, right? And then it just sort of stopped. He had, by my quick maths here, he had like 64 points, I think, at the All-Star break around there, finished with 89 for the season. Yeah, I mean, he only got what? 25 points the rest of the way. Yeah. So it's like, there's a lot there, a lot more there for Elias Patterson to have more consistency, pre and post All-Star break. When he got to the All-Star break, 64 points. And then you've got, what was it, like 30-ish games after that? He scores less than a point per game. Like when we were at the All-Star break, it was almost a guaranteed. Patterson was going to either reach 100 points for a second straight season or get very close to it. And he ends up 11 points shy. He looked like he was going to become the first Canucks center or any Canucks to have back to back 100 point seasons. Yeah, and he ends up at 89. Right. So, yeah, when going through this conversation, it's easy to look at players lower on the totem pole, maybe Podkolsen has more of a full NHL season. So of course, there's going to be a production increase from him, but Elias Patterson, I think you're right, is one that could definitely see some production increase. And that's the type that you need. Like, for all the talk, and we'll get to some other candidates that we're excited about. And given the new environment, they could have a lot of success as well. But Patterson's the guy making 11.6 on the cap this year. He's your franchise superstar forward. Play like one this year. Now, and they're also giving him a chance. They're giving him a line made that's a better finisher and a better player in Nebraska. But also, if Nebraska can work on the power play and that power play gets back to being elite again, that's going to be going to go a long way in Patterson's production all of a sudden going up as well. 'Cause the more they score, the more he's going to contribute to that too, whether it's goals or assists. And that's the other part about this. 'Cause how likely is it for Patterson and JT Miller to have 100-point seasons? I mean, it could happen, but it's very, it's tough. So let's say next season, JT-- I mean, it happens for McDavid and Drycidal. There's not too many other teams that have multiple 100-point scores in the league. Right, especially centers, you know? And hey, if that happens, I mean, you're talking about a team that could be knocking on the door, right? 'Cause they're potentially winning the Pacific Division again. Yeah, potentially at least fighting for it. And in the playoffs, you have a chance. Yeah. Like a real chance, right? So we're hoping to see that happen. But the reality is, you know, it doesn't always go that way in hockey, but you need somebody to make up for somebody else. And I'm not saying JT's going to have a tough year, but let's say JT has a 90-point year next year. Yeah. Or an 80, not five-point year. And he's still really good and he wins his matchups and everything. You kind of need somebody else to be going up another level. And that's where it kind of comes back to Patterson doing. So, and I think at least they're giving him a chance with the environment they're creating for the team this upcoming season. It's not only that, you know, it's somewhat, there's potential for it to happen. It's also like, I feel like needed to a certain level that the Canucks. Yeah. Not that 89 points is bad for Elias Patterson. It's just the way that it happened, you know? He left some points on the table. The thing was he was not an impact player. Yeah. Production sometimes is overrated, right? 'Cause production can be empty. A lot of empty calories too. Are you making an impact game-to-game? And a lot of this talk about the production stuff, there's the other side of him leveling up. Look, let's say he has 95 points next year, but he's a silky finalist. Then we're talking about, you know, Sasha Barkov level of player. There are different ways for you to become a better player and become a more impactful player. Whichever way Patterson gets there, he needs to get there. So, I mean, we've already been quite a bit on Jake DeBrus this week, but he is one of the newer Canucks. I guaranteed 30 goals for him yesterday. You did, you did. I mean, people are saying, like, are you putting anything on the line for that, by the way? I mean, Josh would eat a lasagna. Did Josh end up eating a lasagna? I don't wanna talk about it. So you have not, you have- I have not. - What a coward. - Well, I mean- - You don't live up to your bets. - I know. - Unbelievable. - It's been a while, but I guess I still could. - I mean, nobody's holding your feet to the fire. That's a problem. - Yeah, I know. - If that was with me, you would've eaten a lasagna by now, man. - That was about three. - We'll have to revisit this in during training camp in September. Because people might forget about it over the course of the summer. - Oh, no, people don't forget. - We have the sound- - I promise you. - People don't forget? - I promise you. We will bring it back up. - And if Jake DeBress scores less than 30 goals, well, I'll have something on the line. I need to have some kind of skin in the game. I'm not doing the one chip challenge again. - No, no, I don't want you to die. - People died doing the one chip challenge. - Yeah, I know. We haven't done that. - And my mother was very upset that I even did it once. - She should be. - I wouldn't let you do it again. - I just tell people I cheated death, you know? - So- - Just sounds cool now, yeah. - I survived the one chip challenge. Do I get a badge? Do I get a sticker? - Anyways, we'll bring it back in September. I guaranteed that we'll see Jake DeBress score 30 goals. So we'll bring it back in September and see if there's something we can put on the line for it. - But yeah, he's like number two because he's the big investment they made up front to be part of that solution, right? But then once you get beyond him, like are the next couple of guys, the new additions as well that we look to? - Well, it's hard to say, like I'm gonna group a bunch of the returning players here. Besser, Hoaglander, Joshua, even Garland. Like, can we realistically see a major uptick in their productions? Not a major one, maybe it could be slight, but guys like Joshua and Hoaglander, given their shooting percentages, I mean, they're gonna be up against it to outdo their goal production from a year ago. - Yeah, it's going to be tough for a lot of those guys. I'd say on Besser, my expectation is just get 30 plus. Say healthy, play to full year, give us 30 goals and be the contributor you are alongside JAT. He's been good along the wall. He's been good in front of the night. He's been good defensively, right? So it's like, just do that. I don't need the 40 goals, but just be that player. - So then we start to get more into some of the newer players. - The quick one on Joshua before you do, as much as yes, he had nice pace, right? 18 goals, 32 points. But to me, like getting to 20 goals would be a step. Playing a full year and getting to 20. Getting to 40 points. Like if he can be a 20/20 guy, that's a huge. If you're making 3.25, his profile, and he's a 20/20 guy, playing on the PK like he does. To me, that's a four and a half million player. - So he had 32 points at 63. 18 of those goals was on pace to have more than 20, obviously, 'cause he only played the 63 games. But I wonder if he's able to do it. - If the one way he has a better chance of doing it, is if we see him get put into a bigger spot. - Which they should explore. - I'm honestly, I hear so many takes, and I heard Batch with Connect Talk mentioning, like, he thought the best, you can't convince him the best combo isn't having Debrusk with Miller and Besser and then having Patterson between Garland and Joshua. And in terms of your six most talented players, you're not alone. - And they wouldn't be the third line anymore, Seth. - And that's the thing. Like, listen, like, but here's the thing. Like, we're sitting here on July 4th. - Yeah. - I don't have a strong opinion on what the lineups should be. But one thing I do want to see is them exploring different fits here. I think you have some new players, new fits. You have some interesting combination possibilities. This should be exploring what can work. 'Cause you never know until you put it together. - Right. And, you know, that is an option that they can go with. When they have played Patterson and Garland together, it doesn't tend to work all that well. - It doesn't, but at the same time, like I said, like, I'm at the open-minded phase. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and make these wild proclamations of like, I'm with you. I have my skepticism, so we talked about them, too. But new season, new day, new dawn. Let's see what happens. - I think there is a world where you separate Joshua and Garland, and Joshua can still have success without Garland. - Well, the thing is, if you know that Joshua and Garland can work, you can always go to it. - Yes. - And does it have to be set in stone from training camp day one? Not necessarily. So, Joshua is gonna be in a really interesting spot. But his shooting percentage was over 20 last year. You know, when I said it a couple of years ago that there was no way Andrei Kuzmenko was going to match his 39 goals coming off the wildly, like, the greatest shooting percentage season of all time. - Yeah. - I got called out. - Yeah, you called out one. - I don't even check Facebook. People were like quoting me on Facebook and yelling at me. I was like, what is happening? Even on Facebook. - Yes. I go check Facebook one time and I'm getting just roasted out there by Canucks fans. And I'm a goon towards Kuzmenko. - I was right. - A little backpack. You were right though, you were. - What's that old line? Why are you booing me? I'm right. So, and we get to some of the new guys. Dant and Heine and Keith for sure would. The two other forward acquisitions after Jake Dabrowsk. Both were double digit goalscores last year, but does one of them have, or both of them, have a higher level than they've shown to this point of their careers? - I think there's a chance one of them is going to show that. Especially with the opportunities that are available. - Right. - And as much as I talk about Keith for sure would because he's exciting, he's fun. I think he's one of those like potential untapped guys that we haven't seen and he might take a step here. Like, the shot is a plus. It really is, right? And we all know how feisty is and everything he can do, but is he a smart enough offensive player to actually seize that opportunity if he gets that chance? - Yeah. - We don't know that, right? Like, hey, you can be excited about it, but we don't know, but I've been encouraged. And I know people are-- - I'm out here watching the bear this week and Sat's watching Keith for sure would tape. - Well, it's funny, he's become a whole bit now on non-social media. I see people making memes about it and everything. So it's taken a life of his own. - He's your guy now, he's committed. - Did you guarantee he's gonna score 30 goals as well? - I thought he said that. Somebody said that, right? - Somebody quoted me as saying that, but I did not say that. I haven't made any proclamations about sure with scoring any amount of goals, but-- - The disinformation on the internet is unbelievable. If people yell at me, it's so funny. What do you know? This is embarrassing. - I never even said that. - Come on. - It's whatever, it's all fun in games, I don't mind. But Heinen has actually shown he can play with top six players. Heinen has actually shown he can get over 40 points in a season. He's shown he can score 17 goals, 16 goals, get close to 20. Is this a year if he can stick in a bigger role, especially if he gets a chance to play with Miller and Besser? - Yeah. - Like if he sees that spot on that left wing as a third guy and picks up a lot of trash, and he's got a good shot too, man. Like we talk about Keith for sure with shot. Like the goal scoring rate, five on five per 60, that Heinen has is more impressive than Sherwood's. And the shot velocity is very similar. So like Heinen, again, like I'm sitting here talking about Sherwood's exciting. Make no mistake about it. So far, Heinen has shown to be a far better goal score, and all their underlines are far stronger for Heinen as well, right? So don't discount it. Like that's a guy that he can come into Vancouver. He has a two year deal. If he has like back to back 20 plus school years, he gets 50 some points. Whether it's a Vancouver or elsewhere, you can finally get that deal he's been looking for and grinding for for the past six, seven years. - Yeah, 'cause this is the first time he's getting some term here from the Canucks. Had to be on a PTO last year with the Boston Bruins before parlaying that into a 17 goal season. So there is some talent there with the Langley native, Dant and Heinen. And I think, you know, his spot in the lineup, there's a chance, you know, we talk about DeBrusque playing with Patterson, but if you look at the top six and the duos are Miller Besser on one line, and at least they've penciled in DeBrusque with Patterson as a duo for their second line, well, the job to be the third guy on each of those lines, I don't think is settled yet. Like, Souter is probably not playing with Miller and Besser to start next year. They didn't sign another center. So Souter probably goes back to play in the middle of the ice. And then, you know, is Nils Holglonder painted into a spot next to Elias Patterson again, the way that he was towards the end of the season? I don't think that's a guarantee either. - No. - So if you're looking at Heinen, you're looking at Sherwood, there is potentially bigger rules open there for them should they show worthy of it. Come training camp in September. What about Nils Holglonder? Like, he scored 24. - No, I know. And this is why, like, listen, guys. - It's gonna be hard for him to increase his production, but can he be a more complete, valuable player? I mean, can he-- - Don't smirk at me when I say that. (laughs) - Perhaps he's about to get on it. - He's about to get on it. - He's about to get on it. - I'm not. - I've been dead on the Nils Holglonder. - No, I'm not. I'm not. - You guys know I've been skeptical over the years, right? And honestly, he took a step last year. He was terrific. But we also saw some issues in the playoffs. The same issues with him remain. I have my doubts about him being able to fit long-term in the top six. Now, this was what I was about to say. Should I even comment on Holglonder given my known skepticism? Like, do I have too much bias here when it comes to Holglonder? Like, am I even a credible source of giving you a correct take on Holglonder right now? - 'Cause I'm not, I'm just asking you guys, right? 'Cause I don't want to come off as a Holglonder hater 'cause I'm not. I would love nothing better than any Canucks prospect or young player. I have no ill will towards any Canucks ever. Like, I want every single one, any person was ever put on a Canucks sweater. Even Mark Messier, I wished it would have worked out and he would have played well. - You want them to be the best version of themselves, wow. What a diplomat. - I really do. I don't root against any single hockey player. I never do, right? Like, I don't root against people in general. That's something I don't believe in. So I want these players to have success. I just have my doubt. Again, that's all. And I think this is a spot for Holglonder where it's like, it's really make or break this year. You know, and I don't think the skepticism is just me. They're fans who are skeptical. And I'm not saying the organization is, but given how he played in the playoffs, given the commitment, like, clearly there is a level of skepticism around the player as well. So can you take advantage of this, this chance this year, especially with this new look team? 'Cause there's an opportunity there for him. No doubt. Well, he's got to get better in certain parts of the game. You know, I'm still thinking about game seven. He makes a bad read. Evan Bouchard has thousand more yards of space to deal with before, you know, leading to the Oilers. I think it was their second goal. And, you know, those are the things that plagued Holglonder that hurt him when it came to getting more trust from the coaching staff. I don't, I think it's going to be hard for him to match 24 goals. But if you're going to see improvement from Nils Holglonder, especially if he continues to play with Elias Petterson, he's got to become a bit more of a playmaker, especially if Jake de Brost is going to be playing on the other wing too, right? Like, okay, like you've got to figure out how to be a bit more of a playmaker for your line mates if you're going to stick in that kind of a role. So yeah, he's one of the players that's going to be harder for him to see an increase in production. Vasily Podkolzen. I mean, the bar is three points as somebody pointed out to me on Twitter. I'll bet Dan Espro that Podkolzen gets more production next season. Well, he had two assists, so not a high bar here. No. But is there a breakout? Like, what is a breakout season look like for Vasily Podkolzen even? Well, the thing is, he's already set a bar. Yeah. And that was 26 points, but more importantly, 14 goals and 79 games. And looking like a player that can make an impact. Yeah. That was his rookie season. And it looked like he was breaking out towards the end of that year. And considering that was two full years ago, we're going on almost three years, two and a half years. Yeah. Can you just do that next year? And to me, that will be like, OK, get back to that. And from that point, maybe more. Like, if he scores anywhere from 12 to 14 goals. Then gets close to 30 points, maybe. Like, to me, that's a successful season. That would be a very successful season for Podkolzen, who's probably lined up to play as the 12th forward on the roster. And that would mean he's playing regularly. It would mean that he's playing a decent role. It means he has confidence and it means he's executing, playing a heavy physical four checking style the need for him. Pew Souter was big in the playoffs, had some great stretches during the course of the year, has in all four of his NHL seasons been 14, 15, 14, 14 goals. Yeah. So is this just what we should expect from Pew Souter to be in that 14, 15 goal range? More or less. The only thing, can he have a year where he gets over 40 points? Because he plays with Joshua and Garland all year, pretty much. Right. Let's say to Brussels, like, ideal world. Pedersen and to Brussels work out. You have Miller and Besser together. And then you have a trio of Souter, Garland and Joshua. That's having a lot of success. And then he sets himself up for free agency next year. They were initially the third line. And then when Pew Souter got hurt, they changed it up with Blooger. And Blooger stuck in that role for the remainder of the season, while Souter got bumped up further up the lineup. He was a good fit next to Souter, next to Miller and Besser. But I think the Canucks, you probably want somebody else in that role, to win that role with Miller and Besser if, well, also because that would mean, if he doesn't, then Nils Oman's playing fourth line center for this roster. And I'm not sure that's going to be the case. So we've been talking about these guys. I came across a video today. Somebody calling out Dakota Joshua as a terrible contract and one that will most certainly get bought out before it expires in four years' time. You know what? God bless people for trying to create some content here. Hey, somebody's got to make content. But it got me to thinking, which of the new Canucks contracts does carry the most risk? Like, Joshua's isn't overly expensive, but I thought similarly about McKayev when he was signed. And all of a sudden, they had to give up a second round pick to move off that contract two years later. Well, I mean, the obvious, captain obvious answer is, injuries can affect anyone. So they can all be the riskiest of an injury happens, right? Which is what happened with McKayev. Exactly, right? Now, that would standing. And if we just go by likelihood of the player, if he's not injured, to be able to live up to the contract, there would be some concern around Joshua because he's only done it for one year. Now, in fairness to him, he's had two years where he's been, you know, that type of player, and he's done it on the PK. So it seems like if he plays a full year, his floor still is, you know, double digit goals, 20-some points, maybe 30 points, and he's going to be a PK player. And if you're going to be big and physical and do that, like, you can live with that, you know what I mean? That's something you can live with. So I don't know if it's that risky, to be honest. The only risk would be that he shows up to camp, and he hasn't taken care of himself, and he's not working hard anymore, which I would hope not, right? I mean, I think the team, given what they've seen, probably feels confident, given the investment they've made in him. - They've been pretty good judges of character. It seems so far. - Yeah, so far. So, okay, maybe not him then. Is it as simple as Jake Dobrusk? - I mean, it does carry the longest term at seven years. - Well, Haronek went eight. - Yeah, Haronek would be considered a new contract as well. - Haronek is the biggest investment. Like, it's even bigger than JT. - To me, Dobrusk, I mean, maybe I've drank too much of the Kool-Aid this week. - Well, yeah, you're all in on the 30 goals now. - But like, you know, he's been a consistent 20-plus goal scorer for his entire career to this point, you know? Like even the two years where he finished below 21, you know, he had the broken hand, and even the year was the COVID year where he really struggled, and he was a healthy scratch at times for Boston, and there was a trade request there. You know, things got ugly for a time there with Dubress before he built his value back up. But, you know, there was other things going on that he's been open about, and he just did not thrive in the COVID environment as part of the explanation. Plus, there was an injury there too. - Yeah, I'd still say him, because at least with Haronek, we have seen he's a righty defenseman that has always been productive. You know, first career, like, you know, there's a baseline of talent and a production there. If he ends up being, Dobrusk kind of like, yeah. - Yeah. - Inconsistent top six guy. And you're, now I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say stuck with it for seven years, but it's like, yeah, you got this for seven years, and he's kind of not the answer to PD. You know, he can be the third guy at times, but you know, you get like 60 good games, and then you kind of wonder where he is for the other 20. Like, if you get that, then that might be a long seven years, to some extent, at least for a lot of people. And that's just what, I mean, I'm not saying that's going to happen, obviously. I hope it doesn't happen, but that's where I would see the risk in the Dubressk contract. - It carries a big, big ticket, so yeah, it would be tough. - Yeah, and people are like, well, what about Patterson? Like, we talked about Patterson a lot, we're talking about the contract signed in the off season. - Yes. - We talked, everybody knows the comparison contract. We all, we talked about it at Nause, and we all know how good he has got to be. He's making 11.6. We mentioned earlier in the segment, they need him to take a step up, 'cause he's making 11.6, we all know. - The one I was going to say would be Tyler Myers. But it's saying biggest risk doesn't really fit because it is just three million bucks. Not that that's insignificant against the salary cap, but even if you get to year three, when Myers is like 36 years old and it's not working out, the buyout is also inexpensive when you get to that third year. So, you know, it's not a terrible contract, but yeah. I mean, there's a scenario where Myers like falls off a cliff in a year's time or something like that. And I don't foresee it happening, like he still plays pretty well, but you never know with 35 year old players. Once he hits that threshold, there's the possibility of that happening. - Yeah, there is a possibility. The heroic one, I think the biggest pitfall with him would be that it just doesn't work with Jay, with Hughes anymore for some reason. - Yeah. - And he doesn't really carry his own pair. And you need somebody else to kind of stabilize him on the second pair. And that's a lot of money to pay for somebody that, you know, needs to have somebody with him for him to be capable of top four guy, even though he's productive. And he's not playing on the power play, right? That would be the pitfall there and the risk there to me. - Stan Reicho, Satyar Shah. So, there's a thought on who could break out. And also, which of these new contracts does carry some risk to them. Stan Reicho, Satyar Shah. - Randeeb Jand is going to join us next on Connect Central. (upbeat music) - Hey, it's Jamie Dodd and Thomas Strandz. Get your daily dose of Canucks talk with us weekdays from 12 to 2 on SportsNet 650. Or catch up on demand through your favorite podcast app. (chimes)
