(upbeat music) We're back on Canucks Central, Dan Reacho, Satyarsha here in the Kintec Studio. Keep your thoughts coming in, 650, 650 at the Dunbar Lumber text message. Inbox will keep reading them throughout the course of the program. Let's bring in our next guest. He joins us every single Tuesday here on Canucks Central. Tuesday, Tuesday, it's Irfan Gefar, Canucks insider joining us. What's happening, Irfan? - You chewing on fellows, how are we doing? Happy almost finished hockey season. - Yeah, I mean, it's pretty much done, right? Like, what are we debating the Nate Schmidt contract today? I don't know. - No, not talking about that at all. How's everybody in Florida get so little money? What the heck? It's not a level playing field. That's what most people would say. All right, so let's get into the Canucks offseason. As much as, yeah, I think the Canucks did well with the options they did end up going to here, but we know their pursuit of Jake Genssel was at the top of their priority list. Tampa comes in over draft weekend and all the maybe work they tried to put in on Genssel is essentially for not. Do you think they were ever really close at getting a sniff of Jake Genssel here in Vancouver? - I mean, I think it would have been very difficult for sure. I think that, well, if I'm not mistaken, Jake Genssel had to wait to go to Tampa. - Yeah. - Do you not? - Yeah, so he obviously wanted to go there and knew that they were going to get something done after getting there. And I think that, you know, for the Canucks to think that if it got to free agency, you know, then they would have had a shot. Yeah, you can think that, but I really don't think even if you did get there, it might have always been a Tampa Bay Lightning to be completely honest or it might have always been a team, you know, that was down there in and around that area or on maybe another team that was looking to pursue him, but I'm just not sure how they would have made it work. And you can, even if you watched that video of Jake Genssel, you could definitely tell he's pretty pumped to be in Tampa Bay. - It's one of those things like I just, for a lot of free agents, you know, people will be like, "Oh, why wouldn't the Canucks do that?" I also think with somebody like Jake Genssel, it's like he may have signed that number in Tampa. Would he have signed that number if it was Vancouver? It's probably a little bit more. And, you know, the same goes and has been said about, you know, the Canadian tax, a lot of teams have to play north of the border here. - Yeah, and I think that's for a lot of players too, right? I don't think it's just Jake, I think it's, when you look at it in your career, I mean, you just mentioned nature, it's name is obviously going to Florida, right? OEL went to Florida, you know, there's all these guys that are going down there for obvious reasons, Vegas, Dallas, those are teams and then cities that are enticing the players, right? The tax laws definitely do take that to consideration, quality of life for you and your family, all sorts of different things. I mean, you look at a live Flint home contract on average, right? You look at the, in Massachusetts, your taxes are less. So on average of that contract, you're probably making two to $3 million more money. That's a lot of money for these guys, right? And especially when you look at some of these contracts and how old a lot of these players are in their 29, they're 30 years old. This is their last time to really go and get the bag. And for a lot of these guys and the money that was thrown around was a billion dollars. - Yeah. - Yeah, it was a lot of insane money. Like the NHL, the cap went up 300 and these guys spent, like it was insane. - Yeah, 100%. And I mean, so they don't get again. So we can talk about some of the other guys they got, but I wanted to ask you about Zadorov as well, because there's been the sense that the Canucks, you know, offered, you know, five million per season. And that perhaps they were willing to offer the same that Boston ended up paying for. Nikita Zadorov, what does that kind of tell you about how serious the Canucks were to bring Zadorov back? And ultimately what decision he made. - Well, I think if the Vancouver Canucks offered that type of contract, Nikita Zadorov and it got to the number that he wanted, he would have stayed, right? I don't think that that was in the indication of the door of that, of wanting to leave. I think that, you know, he wanted to say and even out being went out and said it, you know, we made our best choices and did all that. And I just think the number went too high at the end of it's that, to be completely honest. I like, I think that if you're looking at a guy that you're going to pay $5 million to on a six year deal to be your fifth and sixth defenseman on this line up, that's a tough pill to swallow. I don't care how good he was in the playoffs and in the tail end of the season. That's just a very large ticket for your team to swallow, especially in the trajectory of where you're trying to go and what you're trying to do, right? So if you're the Vancouver Canucks, okay. You know, you let that one go a little bit home is obviously another one that you're going to let walk as well, that's one which is never going to work. I really don't think after it came out that it was seven times seven, the Canucks were never really going to go higher than that. And Boston was willing. And then Boston is always an interested in a player like that. And we're going to go play with David Bochenak. Like that's probably who he's going to go play with. So he's going to have an opportunity there. And I think that for the same for Zadorov, he's going to have an opportunity in Boston to go and play up the line up as well. - Well, the thing is though, even if the Canucks weren't willing to offer five, it's clear they were willing to at least get into the four range or something with Nikita Zadorov, which tells you they're not, they want to add another defenseman that can play that similar role. And the reason Zadorov was appealing is not just a size and physicality, but he moved the puck fairly well, right? You can skate it out too. They need that mobility on the back end. Is that an indication of if they are going to spend on somebody, that's the profile they're looking for? - Right now, like currently over the next two months before training. - Or like at some point this is, yeah, whether it's true now or during the season, like I think if all things were equal, they'd love to add a top four defenseman that can do what Zadorov did. Maybe not the same package with physicality and size, but a good, solid defensive puck moving defenseman. - Yeah, and I also think they're looking at a score as well. I think they'll also be looking to add someone near the top of that lineup. You know, the four group does look really good on paper. It's seen the mockups of what people are trying to do. You know, Dant and Heineken can play up and down the lineup. A guy like Jake Genssel, if he's going to work with Elias Fetterson, if not, you know, he'd get the shot with maybe J.T. Miller and then Brock was down. There's all sorts of things that can happen there with the guys that they brought in. But I still think that there's an appetite to add. Now, whether that be a trade or, like you mentioned, go and try some, try and get someone to be that mobile defenseman that fits that mold of that top four, maybe five guys that can, you know, get the puck out of the zone and do all these things and be big and physical, you go and do that, right? I mean, they got Vincent De Harnay. Yeah, okay. You know, he had a decent playoffs. He's consistent. He can play the big, the big heavy type of game, but if he's going to be your puck moving defenseman, you know, is Derek Forward going to be that big puck moving defenseman? I'd probably not, you know? I think that what they've done, and they've seen these guys come in and the big, they've fixed the mold of what they've been trying to do with Susie as well, and even Myers, is have these big guys, but they feel like the structure that they have, the system that they have in place, they can make it work with whoever they bring in based on the success that Tyler Myers had this evening. Yeah, it's, I mean, they're pretty confident in their structure, right? That it'll elevate players. And I think you can point to all of the forward signings that they made, and there is a little bit of a bet, hey, we give these guys bigger rules. There may be untapped potential that we find out of them, including Jake Dabrowska was the biggest of them, but all that being said, you know, their pursuit of another top six playdriver is, it isn't done, as you just mentioned, Irf. And I don't think that guy is out there in free agency right now, I think maybe the top forward left in free agency is what Vlad Terasenko or something like that. It's just, it's not out there. Is it in trade? They don't have a ton of trade assets. Is it something you have to wait to address in season when you get closer to the trade deadline? Like that's, that's probably where this team makes its next major upgrades is they see where they're at, come January, February, and that's when they are on the horn trying to find one of those rental type options to add to this group. - Right. Well, when you look at it where you're an American Thanksgiving, that's kind of the bar that we've always talked about. You know, teams are kind of defined, you know, around then, except for the Oilers, you know, they definitely turned their season around. And then who do the Canucks to add last year in December? There's the door off, right? And then at the end of January, they added a lifeline home 'cause they knew exactly where they were going to be before the deadline. So if they're a team that comes out of the gate flying, if they have, if they are playing well again, you can bet that they're going to try to improve their team on the fly. Now, unless they do something here over the summer, you mentioned there's no real trade asset as maybe that's draft capital, but you know, there's a roster player that, you know, another team likes that they're willing to part with to improve your hockey team. I think the Canucks will take a look at it. - Yeah, I don't think the Canucks, I mean, I think as much as, yes, they're going to be patient, they're going to wait and let things play out. And I think they're comfortable starting going into training camp with this very roster. I think they're comfortable with that, with all those things to happen, especially once they get shit off signed. So nothing else has to quote unquote happen, I think. But I think they're open to pretty much anything outside of, you know, the guys they don't want to move. And I'm not saying they're going to trade Hoaglander or Garland or anything like that, but it's one of those things that it wouldn't shock me that we're chilling on August. And then all of a sudden we hear about a trade that's pretty significant, evolving the Canucks. - Yeah, absolutely. And I definitely think that that's a possibility. You know, I've talked about it before that there's an RFA that they like, now whether this player gets signed or not here over the next little while and still remains to be seen. And then if, if he's the guy that they're going to target, you know, they're going to have to move some pizzas to try and make it work. So they're not done. You know, they may be a little bit quieter now as things kind of wind down while development camps going on. And then you enter kind of a dog day to summer where everyone kind of goes away and goes on their vacations. But you can bet that, you know, Jim, other bird Patrick out being Rick Talk and his coaching staff, they're going to be, you know, on the phone starting to figure out what went wrong last year in the playoffs and try and figure out so they can come back and be better. You know, the Edmonton others are a team that improved a little bit. You know, I don't know what the San Jose Sharks are doing, but if they're going to throw it on the wall and it's thick, you know, there's no pressure there. That's an interesting team as well. I mean, the Vegas Golden Knights lost a bunch of guys, but they also added a little bit as well. You know, the LA teams probably are going to be a little bit of a better team as well. So everyone around you is kind of doing a little bit of things to get better. And you mentioned obviously the other division when you look at the Nashville Predators, the Dallas Stars and Colorado Avalanche who really didn't do too much, it's going to be difficult, right, and the Canucks are just one way away from the conference finals. So making the playoffs is definitely a priority, but actually going and making some noise and then seeing if you can get past ground two now is should be your goal. - I don't know what it is about Nashville, but it just seems like everybody wants to play there lately. Right? Maybe it's that recent viral video that just put Nashville even more on the map. I don't know. (laughing) - Wow, well played. Well played. I think you had that one reach. - Well, you know, sometimes I can surprise people. And Stephen Samcoast, John of the March, so like, you know, as far as like adding top six guys, you know, again, like those are- - Brady Shay. (laughing) - Brady Shay, like they add three huge names, three of the biggest names on the open market. Like personally I have my doubts that it all fits and works as swimmingly as some make it out to be. I don't think Nashville is all of a sudden a wagon per se, but you know, they made big bets on older players. More established players, guys coming off 40 goal seasons. How long is it going to last for Stephen Samcoast? How's he gonna play away from Nikita Kucharoff? I've got my questions, but the bottom line is like, yeah, other teams have gotten better. And the Canucks, while I think they're a deeper team, like the high end of this roster is still something that is missing, but it might be solved by one player internally. And that's Elias Patterson finding his game. It's just, it's so funny how so many of the conversations we have on this show. Like circle back to if Elias Patterson plays to his potential, a lot of the Canucks problems that we saw towards the end of last season and in the playoffs, get solved. - And it's gonna be wild because we're gonna sit here every Tuesday until April of next year talking about it. We've got nothing in the regular season that's gonna matter, right? Until you get-- - Oh, as long as you're like in a playoff position, yeah. - Well, yeah, but again, once he plays his first playoff game, once they get through that first series, the regular season isn't gonna mean anything anymore for that player. And it's tough, right? Because you have to have the pressure coming back. And he scores 50 goals next year. It's gonna be incredible. But if you get two in the playoffs and you bounce in the second round again, you know, here comes the conversation once again, surrounding you, you know? Now, you know, he's away in a doous thing. He's gonna hopefully come back and he's gonna be a different player. But for argument's sake, like we're gonna be talking about this for a long time until the postseason, you know? J.T. Miller's, he's gonna have a career years. You're gonna score 40 goals again. These are all things that we're gonna have to talk about. And these are a lot of the things of why they had so much success in the regular season and why everyone was looking at this team to be a plausible quote unquote "cops contender." But you make the playoffs. One guy disappears. And that was kind of the story. You're going to get injured. That doesn't help either. But yeah, it's gonna be really interesting, really fascinating to see what this team looks like. I guess, I wanna see training cap. And then we'll see, and then we'll see what happens right around late November. - And we know with this front office, they're never going to be afraid of making moves. And if something isn't working, they'll find ways to rectify it. They've shown their ability to get out of problems as well. And they're not worried about admitting to mistakes and moving on. So it's gonna be very, very fascinating how it all goes. But at the same time, I think the fact that we've seen a lot of change is also by design. As much as yes to one, to bring a lot of guys back, it's clear that roster last season also kind of maxed out a certain way, especially with the types of players you had and what they had done, especially like you mentioned those career years, well, you're right. There are certain guys that have to kind of bounce back and do the same thing next season. But they also have other guys coming in now and that maybe they can also take that step and have bigger years next season, especially like a Jake DeBros. 'Cause I think this could be one of those pivotal signings here. If the connects are actually correct in thinking they can get more out of this player and he can really pop here in Vancouver, then the signing could be a bargain for a 27 year old. And a lot of that also comes down to Leah's Patterson. Can you be a star maker here again? Well, I think that's the thing, right? And Jake Enzel had a pretty decent post-season. I think it was 11 points and 13 games for the Boston Bruins. Yeah, DeBros, yeah. Like, you know, he's the guy that can go out and perform. So if the fits there and it ends up working out and you know, everyone looks at it and says, okay, this guy's scoring a bunch of goals and then, you know, it's great. He's had that playoff experience, right? I mean, how many years have they played against the Toronto Maple Leafs and gone deep in the playoffs and you know, had all these different types of experiences. So, you know, you hope he's a guy that can be the one that, you know, helps push you over the edge a little bit, but, you know, to go to Joshua, I just got his bag, right? Is he a guy that can come back now? You're on a little bit of a bigger ticket. Now you have to answer some more questions, right? Are you able to replicate what you did last season or was that just your contract season? You're gonna go and, you know, take your money now and I'm not saying not perform, but not perform as good as you did last season, you know? I think that that's a big one that we're gonna have to take a look at as well. Teddy Blueger, obviously, you know, I think we know what we're gonna get out of him, guy like Connor Garland. You know, you know, he's going to be there every single night, but he can't be your driving force in every single game. Yeah, there's gonna be a few games where, you know, Garland helps you out and he scores two or is really positive and a positive influence on both ends of the ice, but in the end, guys, like, when you look at it, your stars have to be your stars and your best players in order to compete in the playoffs. And for the Vancouver Canucks, some of their stars weren't, but some of their stars were, but their biggest wasn't. So we asked Patrick Olvena yesterday about Brock Besser, who's now eligible to sign an extension with Vancouver. And he told the same line that Jim Rutherford did when he spoke with Ian McIntyre a couple of weeks ago and basically saying that they're okay waiting right now and seeing how things play out for Brock coming off a 40 goal season had the blood clot issue that ended his season before, you know, the Canucks got knocked out in the playoffs, unfortunately. But we might have seen a bit of a comp contract today with the St. Louis Blues and Pavel Butch Naevich, 48 million dollars over over six years. Like that's kind of the stratosphere. I think I would expect Brock to be in if he maintains a lot of the production that we saw from him last season. - Yeah, 48, 49 million blocks, something around there. I mean, his agent was obviously very busy over the last little while. Everyone knows Ben Henson also represents J. Gental. So, you know, I think that's why it was also pretty quiet around Brock Besser and the Vancouver Canucks. And I'd be shocked if they didn't have a conversation here at some point over the next little while, you know, Brock's obviously working out. Again, I believe, I think he's skated with Forbert. I think I heard that somewhere. So he's definitely back on the ice and doing things, but obviously taking it day by day and really slow. No secret he wants to be here. Are they gonna make it work? Is he gonna take less money to be here? Those are the questions that you have to ask. But, I mean, if you're Brock Besser, you've really done everything that you can do. You scored 40 goals last season and you're in for a pretty significant race. So depending on what the Canucks are gonna wanna do and what the Canucks are gonna be able to do over the next little while, that's the thing that we're gonna have to go and wait and see. But I would assume that, you know, the two sides will have a conversation here at some point just to touch base, maybe gauge a little bit of interest if there is on both sides to start doing this. But like you just mentioned, Jim Rutherford and obviously Patrick helping kind of saying that, you know, let's just wait and see. - On the goaltending front, Alvin yesterday during the media availability on Thatcher, Demko mentioned that he's progressing, doesn't need surgery, but, you know, kind of oddly said, maybe he might, but we don't know what everything seems okay right now. We're not worried about it. What do you make of the situation with Demko? Should there be any concern, the soft season about where he is health wise or do you think it'll be all systems gold come training camp? - I mean, it should better be all systems gold come training camp. - Yeah, you hope so, right? - You hope so, right? You have the time off. Unless you need surgery. And if that's the case, then why are they getting, if he does need surgery, I know all of you said he doesn't, but if he does, why aren't you getting it as soon as you possibly can, right? If there is any indication that you do need to, you know, have a procedure, you get it done as soon as you can. There was talk about the Canucks talking to Casey to Smith and wanting to bring in a veteran backup goaltender. I still think that that might be the case to be completely honest, you know? I think that, you know, when they were talking to their free agents here before they left and departed for other places, you know, the kind of a plan was that they wanted to bring a veteran goalie and obviously be a backup for Demko and gives she logs, you know, some more time to grow in average for now if something's changed from them and she logs going to be a guy that, you know, ends up being here up with Demko all season long, that's completely different. But I think that they still want to bring someone in to kind of be a guy that can lift them weight off Demko's shoulders a little bit, you know, Demko from what we know and what we've seen here just based on the eye test, the workload, it can't be a lot, right? And if you want him healthy and at his best, it needs to bring in late April, May and June where he's playing his best hockey. So you're going to need someone, whether that she logs or whether that someone else that's going to be able to give this guy maybe 30 games, maybe even 35 games. So, you know, he has his body and he has his mind and he has everything fully ready to go. Come play off time. - Earth, we appreciate the time. As always, enjoy the heat wave this week. - I will, I will, I'm excited for it. No talk of the Euro anymore on the show. - Yeah, Italy is bowed out, yeah. I mean, if England doesn't win it now, I mean, they're on the easy side of the bracket. - Yeah, no competition. - No excuses, Earth, no excuses. - Well, I mean, then we just lost to the team that if we lose, that beat Italy. - No, it's like it would be exactly the same for you and I. I don't care about anything else but you and I talking about this. - Yeah, I know. - Oh god. - I'm just happy with it. I didn't have to see Italy lose to England. So that's more important to me. Thanks for the surf. - All right guys, see you all. - Yeah, there he is. Irfan Gefarr, Canucks insider joining us here on Canucks Central. - And that's kind of interesting on the goalie front. I mean, cause I mean, they did sign year Patera and he knows that, but he's like, you know, not a veteran goalie. Five games in the NHL. - Yeah, but the thing is though, like, you know, it just kind of makes the wheels kind of turn to my head cause it's like, well, you have Tolopalo who they like the Nabos word. Now you have Patera, you have She-Loves. Like, I mean, there's only so many guys that can play goal. You have four spots on two teams, right? - Yep. I mean, if you are looking at the backup market still, as Earth mentioned, like here are some of the names. - Okay. - Carter Hart not happening, of course. I mean, anti-Ranta, Kevin Langkonen, Martin Jones, Akira Schmeade, Ivan Prosvatov, Magnus Helberg, Malcolm Suban and Michael Hutchinson. So really, like the guys that you would be looking at are probably Ranta, Langkonen and Martin Jones. - And if those guys are available for a million or less, like they're close to league minimum contracts and they're veterans, they would fit that mold, right? - Yeah. - But for me, if you're doing that, that would tell me that perhaps maybe Demko's not gonna be ready to start the season. And we're not saying this is happening. It's more like talking about, you know, if they sign one. It's an indication of something, right? It's either that or that you're willing to trade one of the goalies. - Right. - And I'm not saying you're trading Demko. - No. - Right? Like, I don't see that. Like, if they're thinking about having depth and perhaps She-Loves starts to see her in Abbotsford, they're not thinking about She-Loves being the starting goaltender or a backup starting the year as a goalie. Like, Demko's gonna be the guy. The question is how healthy is he? Now, perhaps he's all good to go, whatever. But if you're bringing another goalie in, are you willing to move somebody then? Like, snacks don't have a ton of trade assets, right? - So, theoretically, it would open the door for you to at least listen to an Artur She-Loves offer. - 'Cause the Patera guy they got is 25. - Yeah. - And the more you hear about him, and I don't want to leave high on him, a lot of people are high on him. Like, people think with the goal-attending situation here with Ian Clark, they can turn him into something. There seems to be a sense. I don't know anything about the kid. I can't tell you, just talking to people, they're very high on him. - Yeah. - They have all of a sudden layers and goal-attending. They don't have a lot of trade assets. And I'm not saying they're going to do these things. I'm just saying they seem like a team too though, Dan. If they're listening to something that they need to know what their contingency is, if we had to move a goalie, what do we have to do? - Right. - Right? So I think it's also them making sure that they have all their X, everything figured out. You know what I mean? I'm just curious, 'cause if you're adding goalie, it's an indication you're either moving one, or Dan was not gonna be ready for a training camp, right? - I assumed like when they signed Patera, like that was their goalie work. - Yeah. - Like that was it, and it was done. But as Irv mentioned, you know, there's still very much in that market. There's only a short list of players that are really even fitting the mold of like veteran backup. - Yeah. - You can lean on a little bit as we just mentioned. Lanking in might be the best of the bunch in that group, because Ranta can't stay healthy, he's glass. - Yeah, he's 30. Like if you're worried about injuries, like Martin Jones hasn't been good for a while. So it's, like they're firm backups. I mean, to those saying, like what about training? And it's like, no, like you have no way of replacing Demko right now, and there's no way the Canucks would do anything like that. Like right now, there's no way. - And she loves, like, you know, he didn't have the greatest year in Abbotsford last year. He was unreal in the playoffs. He was great in playoffs. But in Abbotsford, he, you know, he just didn't have that great of a season. So, you know, if you wanna be a contender, and you have to, like, you don't wanna get into a situation where like, Shilov starts slow or something to that effect and you don't have like a backup option to go to. - Exactly, yeah. Well, that's the, I think because you really want to limit Demko's starts, like, you wanna have something that, something stable behind Demko that you can really lean into 25 already starts for. - For sure, and like, even with Patera, I guess you can't, you know, guarantee that. The thing is, if you have roster flexibility, what you actually could do is, you could share the backup role with Shilov's and Patera where, yeah, you're not giving Patera 30 because you give like 15 to each. - Yeah. - Especially with Abbotsford being close. Now, it's kinda galaxy-branding it, but this is something that Woodley's brought up in the past too, that if you have cap space, you have flexibility, you know, two-way contracts, you could, you know, call guys up, you know, and be strategic about it, especially having a team so close or whatever. So there's a pathway for you to do so right now with these two goalies. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting. We'll see what happens. - Jonathan Davis is gonna join us this take on what's happening around the National Hockey League, what some other teams have done here in the Western Conference. That's next on Canucks Central. - Hey, it's Mike Alford and Jason Bruff. - Join us for Alford and Bruff in the morning, weekdays from 6 to 9 a.m. on Sportsnet 650. - Or on demand anytime through your favorite podcast app. (upbeat music) - We're back on Canucks Central, Dan Reicho, Satyar Shah here in the KinTech Studio, KinTech Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews, sore feet, what are you waiting for? Let's bring in our next guest, Jonathan Davis, host of ice cap and SiriusXM covering the National Hockey League. Thanks for this, Jonathan, how are you? - Oh, I'm doing great. How are you guys? - We're doing fantastic summer is here. The off season is in full swing, NHL owners spending a bunch of money in the last couple of days. And we're starting to figure out what might happen when the teams roll back around in September. I'm curious what you make of how Vancouver's off season has played out so far, the signing of Jake Dobraskin, Dan Heine and some others. What have you made of how Vancouver was able to fill some of their holes yesterday? - I like it. I like there's a breast signing. I think that there's an opportunity for him to flourish in Vancouver. Kind of, you've got a guy who's playing with a really good group of people and prepared to do the score. And I think the Boston situation was just getting kind of old for him and he still excelled, played well in the playoffs. So I think that Vancouver helps this roster. And then, you know, day RNA is a less expensive version of Zadoroth and I think we've seen what he can be like at times and now it's just a matter of harnessing it. But, you know, the size and physicality that he offers, I think that, you know, there's something that fits definitely into what Rick Talkett likes. And, you know, the other Boston players, whether it was Forbert or Heineann, you know, all guys that are NHL players that, you know, maybe they're not 82 games players. - Very good. I'm surrounded by two dogs who are at the beach. - It's all good. Are they your dogs? - No, not mine. - Apparently they're Vinny Day, her name fans as well. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I think so. I'm just gonna kind of take a couple steps back. I was trying to enjoy the viewing ocean, but that's okay. You know, it's like fast problems. - Yeah, well, at least I got a nice view while the dogs are barking at you. - Yeah, yeah. So, no, I really, I wouldn't. Vancouver didn't take a step back in the last season. I think the team that I'm closest to, I don't really think got themselves any better. - Yeah, no, for sure. And I think, when I look at Vancouver, and what I'm curious about sometimes is like, for people that are outside of the market, how they view the team, 'cause last year they were a team that kind of surprised a lot of people. And, you know, even in the playoffs, a lot of people kind of wondering, hey, the Canucks are kind of one and done, a lot of free agents. They're not gonna be a team that can be sustained, can't sustain this. Do you think they've built enough that we can give them the benefit of doubt heading into the next season? - I do, yeah, most definitely. I mean, I think that, you know, again, you've got a guy like to rusk who's hungry, and what goals are hard to come by, and this guy can score. And, you know, the other thing that, you know, that we've learned that the teams are always looking for physical presence on the blue line. And so, you add day RNA and forward, you know, two guys that can slot in, you know, as you're six and maybe even a seven. I mean, you know, but, so I don't think they took a step back, and that's what you're looking to do. You're looking, you know, and I think that's what Vancouver did. So, you know, I think if you're a Canucks fan, you know, you saw what you were gonna lose, whether it was, you know, Lindholm, Zadoroff, and I don't really think that, you know, you should be going, oh, what was me? I think Patrick Alveen and Jim Rutherford did a really good job at being able to, for the team to be able to continue in its progress. - I won't lie to you, Jonathan, like when I first saw the DeBrus deal, there was a little bit of sticker shock for me, but you look into it a little bit more. He's 27, you know, he scores at a really good rate. His numbers in Boston have always been pretty good. He had a bit of a down year this year playing through a broken hand, but, you know, sometimes I think we have this like worry about free agency or every free agent contract is a bust. And, you know, you have to remind yourself, like this isn't a 31 year old player that you're paying for past performance. Like there's a realistic outcome here that Jake DeBrusque is able to find another level as a player and even bring you value on the five and a half million that he's going to get paid over the next seven years. And I think, you know, free agency has kind of evolved into that where you're kind of looking for smart bets rather than overpaying the veteran coming off a career year at the age of 32 or 33. - Well, yeah. And I think that, you know, maybe if Jake DeBrusque could be Vancouver's version of Zach Hyman. - Yeah. - This could be a home run for the Canucks. Again, you've got a guy that can score. I think you come, you know, you'll like the family that he comes from. I think it's a good person, you know, who just really found that, you know, really didn't appreciate or didn't feel that his place was appreciated in Boston. So here he gets a fresh start. And he's going to a really good team. Like I think more concerned if Jake DeBrusque took that offer and went to Columbus. You know, then I go, oh, maybe he's just going for the money. He's going to a team that's got, you know, a chance to, you know, to contend for the Stanley Cup. So I think it's a great fit for both. - You know, it's really interesting now looking at the Pacific Division because we know Edmonton's obviously formidable and Vegas lost a couple of guys, but they're obviously still a really good team in Vancouver's the defending division champion. And then we're looking at Seattle. That was very aggressive as well. And also the LA Kings who were maybe the boldest team with the move they made with pure look do blah, but I'm not quite sure what type of team they're going to be next season, especially with the types of players they've targeted. It's kind of buying into that identity of being more of a hockey, you know, defensive hockey team that's hard to play against. But are they a team that that's whose ceiling is kind of lowering itself right now? Like how do you view the LA Kings and what they look like? 'Cause I'm not quite sure I get where they're at right now. - Well, if you did, and I would ask you for what the secrets are because for the past three years, guys, I have used the phrase, what's the plan in Los Angeles? I don't know what the plan is. It's kind of, you know, Rob Blake has made numerous mistakes on his found a way to get out of him, whether it was the Cal Peterson contract, whether it was a peer loop to walk contract, you know, this is a team that really needed to rebuild the retool, I think a couple of years ago. But, you know, they've been convinced that they've got to find a way to win, while Aunty Kopotar and Drew Dowdy are still here. And I think it's been, it's just been, I really think an unmitigated disaster. I, it's very, you know, you watch this team play and they're really, they're just, there isn't a plan. They were, they were so rich on the blue line for many years. And what have they done? They've gotten rid of Shonders and Sean Walker, you know, Tobias Bjornfoot, you know, and they really are much to show for it. And then they go out for agency and they pay 3.8 million for Joel Edmondson for four years. It doesn't make a lot of sense. You know, they could've maybe gotten after a guy like Ian Cole for a year. I'm still trying to figure out what they're trying, what they're trying to do. They're, they're trying to find a way to make playoffs and be a contender. But guys, they're no better this year than they were last year. Even if you take a look, you know, the gold tending situation here in Los Angeles with Darcy Kemper and David Riddick. It's no better than it was last year with Cam Talbot and David Riddick. So there's no improvement there. You know, Tanner's, you know, if he could be the guy that he wasn't in Nashville as opposed to a guy in Tampa, okay, they got themselves a decent player. But they're hoping that Quinton Byfield can be, you know, one of their top three centers this coming year. And we'll see, we'll see where it goes. I'm really not sure what they're trying to do other than trying to really piecemeal things together 'cause that's really what they've done the last couple of years. It's not, they are not a cup contender team. And the other thing is, is that when you take a look at the rest of the Pacific, like I still think Vancouver, Edmonton and Vegas are better than them. They're gonna be, that means I'm fighting for a wild card spot. And now one of those teams you're fighting for a wild card spot with is Nashville. And I would say Nashville is better than them. So this is a critical year for Rob Blake. You know, who has got one year left on his deal. They did sign Jim Hiller to a four year extension, but you know, if this team underperforms, I would bet that the contract that they signed Jim Hiller to is one that ownership, you know, would be prepared to eat if they had to let him go as well. So I don't know, it's a very, it's a critical year, I think for Los Angeles, but I don't see them as a team that would be one of your cup contenders. - Rob Blake in the final year of his contract and he's hitching his wagon to Warren Fogle and Joel Edmondson. I'm not sure that would be the road that I take down, but it is an interesting choice, you know, like, you know, they went through the reset a couple of years ago, you know, when they traded the Jake Muslims of the world and they had a lot of picks and a lot of assets when they drafted Bifield and Turkot and all these guys. But I mean, it just goes to show how like, it's easy to tear things down and get a bunch of picks and suck for a couple of years, Jonathan, but when you start trying to come out of it, it just goes to show how difficult it can be to come out of a rebuild and, you know, build a true cup contender because, you know, for as much as LA has tried and they've made some moves like Fiala and, you know, the Dubois one last year, you know, it's not as easy as like, "Okay, well, we have all the assets and cap space in the world to just go get the best player available." It's not as easy as plug and play when it comes to coming out of a rebuild. - Well, they never tried to rebuild and, you know, you couldn't bring in guys, but you have to bring in the right guys. And, you know, Kevin Fiala was, well, you know what I'm talking about, this is three teams for Fiala. I don't know if there was any mystery about Fiala and Dubois, I mean, like, yeah. You know, the fact that they found another GM to take them off their hands is an absolute miracle to me. I'm really confused about why Washington would want him. But, yeah, look, they've never trusted their prospects. I mean, bottom line, there is not a forward prospect. You know, this was supposed to be, you know, it wasn't that long ago, they were ranked as one of the top two or three, if not the top prospect rule. But their best prospects have been on the blue line, but they've kind of, they've never really trusted guys, you know, whether it's been Tercott or Aacomo or Kiel Thomas. I mean, they need biofield to hit, but they've never trusted guys. And then they've totally destroyed Arthur Calleus. I mean, this is the guy that all he did, all he does is score. I mean, you know, the problem with Calleus, you go back to the last season, this is the guy that we started in the year had six points in eight games. And then he got moved off a line with Deno and Arveston because Kevin Cialo didn't want to play with Pierre-Luc Du Bois. And that is 100% fact. And they moved Calleus off the top line and the kid got buried. And maybe there's some things that he needs to work on, but they've destroyed the value of this kid. And I mean, it was two years ago that before he got hurt, he was leading this, he had more powerfully goals than any other L.A. King player. So, yeah, it's very frustrating for, I believe, for King's Day. - Yeah, I mean, they went from a few years ago being a team that had a war chest of prospects, assets, young players and looked like they could be the envy of the league and it hasn't quite turned out that way. You mentioned them not fully embracing a rebuild. Well, a team very close to them has fully embraced a rebuild in the Anaheim Ducks. And I mean, they're so far into the rebuild that they still need to get to the cap floor at this stage. And they did help themselves get closer to it adding Brian Dumal in today. But they're fascinating because they have a lot of young talent. They have more coming as well. Like, how promising is a situation? But at the same time, like, when do they start to have to, when do they have to begin yielding results, especially in that market? - Well, they got to yield results sooner than later, that's for sure. Now, look, I will say it's my understanding that they made serious pitches for both Stephen Stamkos and Jonathan Marshall. And obviously were rebuffed on both. They know they need more NHL ready players. And, you know, right now, I think what Pat Verbeek is trying to do is decide is what's the future of Trevor Zegres and John Gibson in Anaheim. And, you know, if their future is elsewhere, can't, you know, they know they need to move into NHL ready players. Zegres is the big enigma. I think there's the kids that can play, but there's definitely some maturity issues. And in the case of John Gibson, you know, Pat Verbeek has to be prepared to eat salary to move him. But yeah, they, look, they're prospecting, they're you far better situation than what's going on in Los Angeles. And they're also, guys, they're in a market where, I mean, it's easy to think. It really is, like, they don't get a lot of attention, which hurts from putting people in the seats, but they have a longer runway. But Pat Verbeek is doing everything he can to try to find a way to get to more NHL ready players. I don't think that, you know, there's any illusion that this is a team that thinks they can make playoffs this year. But I think they're looking more at it two years down the road. - The Edmonton Oilers, you know, they were one game short of winning the Stanley Cup. A lot of people in love with the moves they made yesterday, Jeff Skinner, Victor Arvidson, even keeping Adam Henrik and Corey Perry into the folds. Do you think Edmonton has, you know, given themselves a chance to take another run at Lord Stanley next year? - Oh, absolutely. And I mean, and I love the two, you know, the additions of Arvidson and Skinner. I mean, that's what this needs now. Let's see what can happen with a van der Kain. I mean, if he's got the hip surgery that goes on L-P-I-R, okay, that, you know, that will help out their cap situation. And if he doesn't have to go on L-P-I-R, can they move him? But obviously, what's a big question is what happens with Leo. And so, you know, that's the big one. They've done some of the easier work. And they got a bargain in Jeff Skinner. I do, Arvidson, I thought, look, as long as this guy can stay healthy, it's a really good player. I really loved watching him here in Los Angeles. I think that he's a better playmaker than he is a goal scorer. So I think that, you know, Edmonton really most of their offense with the moves they made here during free. - Jonathan's gonna be an interesting offseason. Hope you enjoy it and we'll talk again soon. - Anytime, guys, enjoy, take care. Thanks for having me. - There is Jonathan Davis, a serious XM ice cap joining us here on Canucks Central and didn't pull any punches on where he thinks the L.A. Kings are currently at. - Yeah, man. Like, I mean, I just don't get it. Like I was looking at them today again. And like, I get it in terms of, yes, like you want to play, you know, tough, hard-nosed hockey, buy-in, low event and suck the life out of games. Okay, I get it. But they have such a low ceiling because of the lack of overall talent too. Like they have some nice pieces, but not enough. And maybe buy-field and maybe somebody else eventually emerges. But every year that goes by, you're not getting the same copitar and dowdy. They're making a ton of money. - You need buy-field and Clark to become what copitar and dowdy works for so long. - Exactly. - They're still waiting for that, right? So yeah, they can be a hard team to play against. It wouldn't shock me that next year there were a wild-card team and everything. But they went from being a team we looked at and said, hey, could they win the division? Could they be a team that is going to be a cop contender to like, yeah, maybe a tough out as a wild-card team. Like that's falling quite a bit considering what the hopes and dreams were for that team given the assets they had. - When they first made the playoffs a few years ago and it looked like they were very much on the come up. It was like, man, L.A. has come through their rebuild and they're already ahead of Vancouver. And now look at how quickly its assets turn back the other way. I mean, they've just made, as Jonathan mentioned, they've made so many bad decisions. Like every player they targeted, like Fiala has worked out from a production standpoint, but-- - From a fit standpoint? - Has it worked from a fit? Like, is Fiala, like this is the thing about going out and trading as much as they did for a top and for a top winger. It's like, is he one of your guys or is he like a complimentary piece? And he is a complimentary piece to the core. I guess similar in a way to how Brock Besser factors into the Canucks core. But I would say Brock even has a more well-rounded game than Kevin Fialida. Certainly he showed that this year. - I think, I mean, Kevin Fiala obviously hasn't beat in the pace and being dynamic for sure. Like Fiala has a beat in that sense. Shot-wise, I mean, you could mention that, Fiala probably shoots the puck harder than Besser does. Accuracy-wise, there's a debate. But overall playing, like fitting in, playing along the wall, being aware defensively, being a smart player that can, you know, play along other guys, I'm with you. Like, I'd rather have Besser than Fiala. Like, if Fiala could do those things with his pace, I would take Fiala, but you're right. Like, considering how talented he is, I shouldn't be picking Besser over him. But we are. - The thing is though, like that player, that player type, can't be the guy for your offense. He's gotta be like the third or fourth guy for your offense, which is how Brock Besser essentially operates here in Vancouver. And that's where, you know, this whole thing for LA really starts to, it's like on a house to carts. They had all these pieces. None of them developed, they traded half of them, and now they're left with this. And it's not a pretty sight in LA. Like this is, they've made, Rob Blake has made an absolute horror show of this reveal. - He really has. And looking at their off season, I just, hey, when we talked about them last week, when they cleared that space, we're like, man, like, you know what, like, if they go and get Gensil, if they go and get Lindholm, if they go and get, you know, like a Montor type, even like, you know, high-end guy, a couple of those players, like, LA could, you know, be pretty dangerous again. - Yeah. - And that's not the avenue they took. Now, maybe they're trying to and couldn't land something, and this is kind of the recourse they have, and maybe they'll do something else. They have some cap space left, and everything have to sign a buy field still. But we'll see. Like, other, like, so their off season has been panned by everybody, right? I think the Kings are, the team that's been criticized the most, this off season. - Yeah, they're one of the biggest losers in the off season. - Right. - The biggest winner I think people always have been looking at across the board has been Nashville, right? Are people talking enough about the red flags with Nashville? - I don't think so. - They're not at all. And like, forget the right-hand shot thing we talked about. - Yeah. - They were the oldest team in the National Hockey League. - How did they become the oldest team in Nashville? - Dude, it's insane. So like, I'm looking at it now. It's hard to kind of find updated numbers at this. Their average forward group age is 29 and a half years old. Their average decor range age is 29.7 years old. And their goal tender is average ages 30 years old. Now, hey, maybe next year, the year afterwards. But we're talking about, Yoshi has signed for four more years, she's 34, but now he's incredible, right? But nonetheless, Marsh is over five more years, she's 33. Rhyne or Riley for three more years, she's 33. Forsberg for like six more years, she's 29. Stankos for four years, she's 34. And then, they gave Brady Shea a seven-year contract. He's 30 years old. They got Luke Shenver two more years, she's 34. Like, I don't get this high ceiling team. Like, is it pretty much Copperbust for them next year? - It's Copperbust. Like, they've got picks, they've-- - They have picks, they do, you know? So they'll be able to add to this team in season, right? - But this is not like a long-term contender. They're not built like that at all. - No, they're built for like a, they've opened up a short-term window. - It's like two years, right? Like with the money that they've committed here to Stankos and Marcheso and Brady Shea, you've opened up a short-term window betting on what you saw this year. - Yeah. - And this time last year, you were looking at Nashville being like, what are they doing? Are they rebuilding? Like, they're bringing in a couple of vets like Luke Shen and Ryan O'Reilly to sort of supplement the young players that they're gonna try and bring along. And then, you know, they find a way to make the playoffs last year and now they're betting on that. And look, cool. But I just got my questions, man. Like, I get it. It's Stephen Stankos and it's Jonathan Marcheso. You love the name value. But most times, teams make that kind of commitment, those kind of dollar commitments to players of that age, those contracts don't get looked upon fondly. - No. - And they don't age fondly either. Like, how much more do you have of Stephen Stankos? Does he remain at this level for a couple of years? How does he look away from Nikita Kucharoff? How does it work with this Nashville power play? Fitting all these pieces together? I mean, I got, like, there's legitimate question marks for how well this is going to get off the ground in Nashville. They have the talent to still be a playoff team, but I don't put them, all of a sudden, in the upper echelon of the Western Conference. Like, Dallas and Edmonton are probably still the class of the West. - Yeah, for sure. And I think, I mean, you can put them in the next tier, if everything clicks, right, and they stay healthy and everything, and things come together. They have a lot of talented players. It's just a very short window and there's a lot of commitments. You've made big-time commitments, long-term, for, like, a two-year window. And on the flip side, I know people have been critical of what Tampa's been doing, despite signing Genssel. But I think they've taken the perfect approach. They've lowered their average age considerably. I know they brought McDonough back, but they still have, with getting Stampede Coast out, trading a stargotchev, bringing in, you know, a couple of younger players too, having Moser, having geeky that they want to bring in to the lineup, and instead of having a 34-year-old giving a long-term deal to, they're giving a 29-year-old with speed and some, you know, some quickness to his game. - Yeah, so I can see Tampa being a quicker team next season, and that's something they lacked. Like, they weren't always the fastest team, but they were kind of plotting last year. - Well, you know, if they committed that kind of money to Stephen Stampede Coast, they're committing to a team that's not been good enough the last couple of years. - Exactly. And I know, hey, I don't know what happened. Maybe they could handle things better, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that organization moving off of Stephen Stampede Coast. - Yeah. - None at all. - No, it's, you got to make tough decisions. - Yeah, like, if anything I admire, you moving off from him, could you have done it with more tact or could they have done it differently? I don't know what happened or what didn't happen, perhaps, but I think the idea of moving off from Stampede Coast, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think they made the right decision. - Breakups don't often go well, Seth. - No, they don't. They don't. Honestly, I think it's better for something like this to happen than for him to sign this extension and be an anchor, and the team sucks, and it was gonna blame him, and it becomes sour, like, this is the best thing. And if it doesn't work out in Nashville, like at least the time in Tampa's always viewed fondly. They did sign Victor Hedman today to an extension, so one of Stampede Coast's gripes was that everybody else got their early extension, but you never gave me an early extension. - And then on the first day, they're like, "Here, Victor." - So, Victor, you want the same contract? Steven just took in Nashville? - Sure, sign me up. - I mean, here's another guy that, again, took less. - Yes. - Even at his age, but he's not even that old, like he's 33, right, but-- - It's only a three-year extension. - It's a $125,000 raise from what he was getting. - It's a four-year extension, but it kicks in at age 34, so I get it, like, you know, he's not a young player anymore, but-- - It's funny how we never talked about Victor Hedman being one of the best contracts in the league for so long. - I know, and it's still, like, it's not-- Even the extension at the end is not ridiculous. - So the eight-year deal that he is finishing up this season, he signed it in 2016, July 1 of 2016. At the time, it was worth just under 11% of the cap, eight years, just under $64 million. - Yeah, and if you add the 32, so he ended up making $96 million-- - Yeah. - Or 94, whatever, in-- - Two contracts. - In two contracts. - So 12 years, not bad. - Pretty good. - Not bad, I mean, hey. - It's one of the best defense men in the league, but, you know, he probably could have made-- - He locked into an undervalued contract really early on in his career. - Yeah, and he's still, by the end, is gonna have earned $100 million in his career, which isn't bad. But yeah, could he have earned $120, $30, $40, if he really wanted to, potentially, right? But does he have two Stanley Cups? - Like, Shay Weber maxed out when he signed the offer sheet in, was it Philly? - Yeah. - It's still like one of the biggest contracts that's ever been signed in the national hockey league. Like, it was over $100 million. - Yeah, it was a massive contract. - When he signed it. But yeah, you know, it was one of the reasons they changed the rules, and, you know, the Revert of the Longbow Cap recapture don't need to bring all those things up. - No, don't have to. But, you know what, we'll talk about some of the other teams that did well, didn't do well in free agency over these last couple of days, and some of the news and notes from today, a lot of transactions did happen elsewhere around the league. We'll discuss some of those, take more of your texts and questions on the Don Marlumber text message inbox as well. It's Canucks Central, Dan Reacho, Satyar Shah. - Hey, it's Big Nizar. Have your say and join me on The People's Show with big takes and even bigger bets, weekdays, three to four on Sportsnet 650, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Final segment, Canucks Central, Dan Reacho, Satyar Shah. In the context studio. Let's head into the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox where you become a part of Canucks Central. The Bridge Street Dunbar Lumber and Ladner has moved to progress way in Tilbury's industrial park. More room, more product, more awesome details at Dunbar Lumber.com. This question from Jason and Bear Mountain, teams like Nashville just paid players big for what they've already done, whereas Alven paid guys fair dollar for what they're about to do. - Yeah, it's a fair assessment, it's a good assessment to it. And the Canucks in many ways did do that, right? And it's not like every single player they sign was a young player, but every deal they sign was with the idea of you trying to find some level of surplus value, like let's work through the deals, right? - Yeah. - How easy, what do we think Myers can provide value wise? I know people are listening right now will be like, "Well, he's trash, he's garbage, "he should have not brought him back." Some are fans, but if he plays the same role he did last year, and let's say he acquits himself just as well, gets say 25 points instead of 29, and he saw it defensively, like what's the going rate for that? - That's four million bucks. - So you're getting pretty much four million bucks. So right, shot guy. - So there's a chance for you to get at least one million in surplus value if you get the good Myers. - Yes, if you get the same Myers you got last year, playing about 20-ish minutes a night, being a big part of your penalty kill, and you're like, "Yeah, those are things." Like you're not asking Myers to do more than he can do. Now, if Phillip Roanik gets hurt and Myers has to play top pair kind of minutes, then you're in trouble. But for the role that they're asking him to play right now, I think Myers is at least, well, like from what we saw of Myers this past year, he's still well suited to play that. - Yeah, 100%. So I think there's a pathway there, realistically, if you get some level of surplus value. Dakota Joshua's contract, 3.25 million, which, hey, it's not cheap, but look at the market again. Players like him where anything close to him, they were getting paid. - You know, Fogle got pretty much the same kind of money. - Three and a half. - Those guys, that's kind of the money that they were getting. - Yeah. - Joshua's short track record is the reason I had hesitancy, especially to go the four years, but, you know, if he gives you what he gave you last year, he's still like, he's reaching the value of the contract. - Yeah, but he's not giving you surplus value. - Right, but if he takes a step, if Dakota Joshua next season scores 20 goals, has 40 odd some points, good on the PK, and is a more consistent player too, especially with how he developed last season, that's like, what, a four million player? - Yeah. - So you're getting maybe 750,000, perhaps a million dollars in surplus value. So again, there's a pathway. If he takes that step, well, you're getting at least some level of surplus value for a player who's hard to find in today's league, right? The blue girl ones, I think, pretty straightforward. - Yeah, pretty obvious. Like, Teddy Blueger, you were fine with what he gave you last year. At bare minimum, he gives you the same thing this year, so you'll be fine with the 1.8 that you're paying him. - Yeah, and if anything, he can easily give you, I think based on what we've seen in the market, like, Stendling got two. - Yeah. - So you're gonna get at least 500,000 in surplus value from Blueger next season. - And that David Comp contract is so bad. - So bad. I mean, damn. But so you get it there, and we talked quite a bit about DeBrusque yesterday. - Yes. - And you made a compelling argument about his numbers and how the case, you know, may work out for him. And let's say he does hit 30 some goals. Well, let's say 30, 35 goal score in today's NHL is worth how much? - $7 million. - So, you can get some surplus value there. So the textures point, and we haven't even mentioned Heinen and Sherwood, which we can do here in a second, but I think that, you know, is sufficient to illuminate the textures point about here are pathways where the Canucks could get surplus value internally. - Like, there's obviously downsides to the deal, you know. If DeBrusque just kinda shows up in his, you know, a 20-ish goal guy that isn't playing in defensive situations the same way that he did in Boston, and all of a sudden you've got a, kind of another Connor Garland, that's, you know, nice to have, but is it something you really wanna pay $5 million for every year? Like, not really, right? So, you're hoping for more. There is a little bit of a line that you are towing here of how the player can bring value on the contract or where the downside is of the contract. And, you know, if, you know, if DeBrusque has a similar season to the one that he just had in Boston, you're not feeling overly great about paying him $5.5 million for the next seven years. - No, the thing I like about his game, and I think why, as long as he gets 20-some goals, right, and he plays his good four-check install with the size he has and can level up in the playoffs, like, there's value there, and that's how the players are hard to find, but you're right, 5.5 is a lot. Every contract for each that comes with risk, any seven-year deal does. You're right, there is that pitfall, potentially. - But his PK ability, and I assume he's going to play PK. - Yeah. - Here as well in Vancouver, it was a big part of his game the last couple of years. I think that's, one of the things that makes it difficult for Connor Garland to bring value on his contract is he doesn't play on special teams. - Now, he is going to get more of a role, I think, on the second unit, right? And I think next season, especially with them talking about Shorewood, getting a chance there, and listen, I'm not saying the second unit's going to be this weapon for them, but could it at least be more of a realistic option than this past year? 'Cause this past year we're like, come on, like, what's going to happen? It's her own, I can hold Lander and Garland. - What did they score, like, one or two goals? Like the second unit on the ice this day? - It wasn't very good. - It took a while, too. - Yeah, it took a long time. So, I mean, can you at least find, can you have a second unit that can get you, like, five or six goals, seven, eight goals, even? You know what I mean? And all it sounds like a small number, but it's not. Like, if you have a second unit-- - Hey man, that can factor in on a couple of wins. You never know when the goals might come. - Yeah, that might actually be one or two wins, like three or four points on the campaign for you, right? So it's not insignificant. So perhaps there, you get a little bit of value, but it's not enough for the amount of money you're paying, right? If you're doing a lot of different things. On Heinen and Sherwood, we talked about Sherwood quite a bit, you know, yesterday, too, and I see, you know, the pathway there for him. But what about Heinen? - So, I mean, he's an ice player, coming off a 17 goal year. He's been in the teens a few times in his career, just feels like a solid... I wanna say he ends up playing middle six kind of minutes, but where he slots in the lineup. You know, some nights it might be on the top line, some nights it might be further down the lineup. I think there's a lot of versatility in Dantan Heinen's game that gives you options. And as long as he brings, you know, sort of this 15 goal 30-ish point production, like you're happy paying the player 2.25. - For sure. Now, he's had 47 points in the past. He scored 18 and 17 goals in a season, respectively. If you can score 18 and 17, you can score 20. - Yeah. Like if he's playing with J.T. Miller, remember our conversation with Jim Rutherford, you know? Last year after he signed his contract extension, you know, we put Miller with Horvat for a time and he started scoring and we put Miller with Besser and now he's scoring, so... If you put Dantan Heinen with J.T. Miller, does he start scoring a little bit more? - Yeah, and you know what, like, I see... And I understand people are like, well, the connects need more top six players. And I think in an ideal world, right? You'd love to have Dubrusk and another legitimate high-end guy with Pedersen. - Yeah. - Ideal world, you'd love to have Besser and Miller and another guy that's a legit top six guy with a track record or scoring 25, 30 goals. Like, of course, who wouldn't want to have that? It's not easy to find. It takes costs a lot of money. You need prospects. The other way of trying to find, at least guys that can approximate that is taking bets on some guys in this type of range. And if Heinen can find the role as a third guy, whether it's with Miller, and perhaps maybe even, you know, maybe Dubrusk doesn't work with Pedersen and he goes and plays with Miller and Besser and they have this trio that works, but maybe Heinen fits with Pedersen. - Yeah. - Like, Heinen's shot is like plus. You know, I was mentioning looking at key for Sherwood's shot. Heinen actually has a more impressive goals per 60 rate than even Sherwood does. And you can tell by the goal scoring rate he's shown, right? We're talking 18, 17 goals in a season. But also, there's real velocity on his shot. You look at his NHL edge data, like he's in the 80th percentile, we're getting that shot up. There's something there, you know? And he's not at the age where it's impossible that he finds something. Like, we've seen it here with some guys throughout the league in recent years. Verghege is a guy, other guys too that, you know? And Verghege was even like farther behind 'cause he came through the minors and then he get a chance, whereas Heinen's kind of around the league for a long time. But if he fits, and if he can get that shot off more, and if he starts playing 15, 16 minutes or something, like, I think there's a pathway for Heinen to be pretty impressive. Like, there could be something there if the Canucks can get it out of him. His first full season of league, 16 goals, 47 points with the Boston Bruins way back in 2017, 18. So, you know, like, there's some score and pop there. He scored quite a bit in the AHL for the Bruins as well, way back when good scoring track record in college, and of course when he was with the Surrey Eagles as well. So, like, you know, there's potential for a little bit more offense. - And these are the things they need, right? 'Cause I see Dan and Poco texting in about not enough criticism, the defense isn't good enough and everything. It's like, you know, like we mentioned in the first segment, and I think when we look at where this team is at too, like, yeah, sure, you're gonna have the take and be emotional about it and screaming yell about they're not good enough or whatever. But it's also July 2nd. And we know there's a front office that is not afraid of addressing their needs as a season goes on. - The biggest question, and I get the textures point, the biggest question I have when I hear somebody say, like, well, they didn't address their ultimate needs, the defense still isn't good enough. What was the option? - Yeah. - What option was there for them to go and get? Do you wanna give Brandon Montour that contract? You just gave $7 million to Philopronic. Do you wanna give Brady Shea a seven year deal at age 30? Even the Brett Pesche contract. Some people love it and, like, stay at home defense when making that much money for that long, with some injury history over the last couple of years? I don't know. - Yeah. - Obviously, you have to get uncomfortable to win guys over in free agency. I understand that. But what, you know, the flip side of the Canucks not filling all of their holes right now is they've given themselves a reasonable amount of flexibility to be able to do that down the line when the opportunity comes through trade or even with a little bit of cap space somehow else. - Well, you know, this is the thing, like, even a few weeks ago, when we talked about Genssel, one of the things, you know, I kept repeating was even if the Canucks get Jake Genssel, they're not going to be able to address other needs. So there's no way for the Canucks to address all their needs this offseason and for you to feel like, okay, they found all their answers heading into the season. They're going to have to find either internal solutions or find external ones throughout the season, which I have no problem doing. 'Cause again, this front office has shown an ability to find those answers when need be. And I think they're good at doing and addressing those types of needs. But there was no way for the Canucks to have an off season where you would have looked at them and said, oh, they're significantly better. 'Cause if they got Genssel, you'd be like, yeah, they're much better up front, but what are they sacrificing? They're sacrificing some depth. They're sacrificing something on the back end. And you're okay doing that 'cause it raises the ceiling of the team, but it still means you have a lot more work to do to fill out your roster. You're truly knocked on the door to win a Stanley Cup, which meant there was no way for you to get through this off season and for you to have the mission accomplished sign done, right? That was not going to happen this off season. So I think I'm not overly concerned about where there are because I never thought they were going to solve everything today. So like if you want criticism, sure, you can get it. And to be honest, we talked about this yesterday and our spiritual advisor brings it up too. Like I wasn't high on signing a brusque. And I was honest about it yesterday. And again, like if I could choose other guys I would have, but it's not like I look at it and say, I can't work. There are ways for it to work. - I've talked to myself into it and I know I was taking some heat on Twitter for it last night, but it's fine. - I mean, you were honest about it. I mean, the funny thing is I see stuff sometimes and it's like reached the center. He said on air, I don't like the signing, but I looked into it now and I changed my mind. Like it's not like you were hiding anything. - Haven't been hiding anything. And the comp that I made to Zach Hyman is just like, it's more, I can see that the Canucks are making this kind of bet. And sometimes you have to project out where the player is likely to be and what are the other possible outcomes in a free agent contract. - 100%. And I think there are outcomes there that are positive. And I think when the Canucks sign up player, you can go one or two ways. You can be pessimistic and talk about all the bad things and all the pitfalls. And we brought them up or you can look at it and say, hey, you know what, I can give the benefit of doubt that they can figure it out here, give them what they've done so far, right? And the thing I however believe they have to do at some point, I can see pathways and we talked to Irfan. I wouldn't be surprised if they do add a forward at some point, right? Whether it's free agency during the season to help booster top six or booster forward group. But there's a real need on the defense. I think everyone can agree, no matter what, the Canucks have to probably find another defenseman here some point, right? Whether it's the off season or during the season, like this defense is not a cup caliber defense in terms of it's one through seven. They have good depth, they have a great high end, there's one guy in the middle they still need. I think they're aware of that too. - They don't have like a number three or a number two. - I think they're very well aware of that. But I think they're just not willing to spend like three to four million on a guy that's not the perfect fit. - Right. - And by perfect fit, I mean a guy that can fit into their system and also move the puck. - One thing I did want to mention with the forwards that they did add, you know, if you think about what it was going to take to get Jake Genssel, he signed for nine million in Tampa Bay, reason we'll do expect, if Vancouver was even on his radar, they would have had to pay a little bit more than that, it cost them nine to five to sign Debrask, Heine and Key for Sherwood. So with the money that it would have taken for them to sign just Jake Genssel, they were able to sign those three players. - Yeah. - And that's why you have a more, at least formidable stable one through 12 in your forward group. But this was the caveat, you're lacking at the top end. But you can't force that top end player if it's not there for you to add. And that's ultimately how I view what they did in this offseason, why their pivot point was to the players that they did end up moving to after it was very apparent they weren't going to get Jake Genssel. All right, a couple more things, a couple more texts come in. I can never, this text, what do you guys think of possible one year deals with the types of players like John Klingberg, Justin Schultz, Tyson Berry, maybe a flyer on Philip Zadina. That's Justin Edward texting in with that question. Not sure, like, I have no idea where Klingberg is at, after the big injury he had. Last year, Schultz and Berry, I don't know, like Tyson Berry can play a role for you, but it's not an everyday type of role for you, for a contending team in the NHL these days. - Yeah, on Berry, I'm pretty much a pass. Like I think even if Berry comes, like I don't mind if he's your 7-8, but I think he's not gonna guy that's gonna play a lot in the playoffs anyways. So I just don't see that being a fit here anymore. Out of those three, the only guy who I actually like is Schultz. If you can get him one year, one million or something, I'd be all over it 'cause I think he can, he's moves the puck fairly well. He's got size, he's not huge, but he's 6'2. - You can see him play in third pair. - Yeah, and he knows the coaching staff, like they're familiar with him from their time in Pittsburgh as well, right? So I think he's one of those guys that I would actually not mind. It just kinda comes down to where he wants to go and what is the number going to be. I'm not sure I wanna pay him 2 million, but yeah, I mean, Schultz is a guy that I have no issues with. - I do wonder, do they pull a pew-sooter kinda move later on in the summer? Philip Sedina could be one of those names. All right, final text and question. What about playing Joshua and Garland in the top six? - Yeah, I know a couple people have had that question coming in. - I guess we could see Joshua play with Miller and Besser or get a chance to. - So yes, I mean, I think Garland can play with Patterson, but again, like he's puck dominant, Patterson's kinda puck dominant at the times. I just don't think it's a long-term fit. I would explore Joshua though. You're paying him 3.25. You think there's more there in him and he's shown more. Like yeah, I would explore seeing if he can play either with J.T. and Besser, either with Patrick. Well, gets a little tougher with Dubraski and Patterson. If Dubraski's gonna play on the left wing, like what wing are you putting him on, right? Like he's probably best playing left wing. - Yeah, he can play on the right side. - He can, he can. He could do that, but it's more like, I wanna get the best version out of him. And all of a sudden are you putting him on his off side and you know, that's kind of what I sometimes don't want to get into the habit of doing is putting guys into uncomfortable spots because you wanna see more out of him is just not conducive, I think. - Dan Reicho, Sati Arshah. We'll have more on your Vancouver Canucks tomorrow and overrated, underrated Wednesday. Kevin Woodley will join us, the goalie guru himself. Lots to discuss. What are the Canucks plans in goal? Moving forward, we'll discuss some of that with Kevin Woodley tomorrow. For producers, Josh and Elon, my co-host, Sat. I'm Dan, you've been listening to Canucks Central.
